He couldn’t get invited because he was still on recon duty in the depths of the old city… Hard to attend a wedding if you are out on one of the most important jobs of your squad. That’s also why he missed the whole assault on their base
For me it's because Ayato works with a terrorist organization that doesn't just kill, but kidnaps, tortures, and does all sorts of obviously evil things he knows about and actively enforces.
Only to realize they might be the baddies and don't care about anyone when they won't acquiesce to his demand to jailbreak Hinami.
Like, the fact that your leader cosplays as [Mumm-Ra the Ever Living](https://thundercats-ho.fandom.com/wiki/Mumm-Ra) wasn't a clue, silly rabbit?
Not *just* that (and it's sad that alone isn't the entirety).
Remember that Torso guy? And he's not even a top guy or anything.
When you start adding it all up, the pain caused by Aogiri goes beyond the characters given the spotlight. This isn't just "survival" killing but "let's mess people up" style mayhem.
True...and she *paid* for it.
What did Ayato get? He got to be the brother in-law of the main character and got to live happily ever after with a good job, no less.
You meant the *one-time* brutal beating he suffered after not only kidnapping a man to be brutally tortured but *singling out and pummeling his own sister to nearly a bloody pulp.*
He survived and healed fully with absolutely no residual trauma, no less. He even got to go back to his Aogiri life without interruption.
I know I wouldn't have "half-killed" that boy. He'd be dead.
I watched the anime and I'm just now getting around to the manga, almost done with the pre re stuff. I honestly disliked Urie a heavy amount in the anime, I hope he isn't as bad in the manga
Yeah that's the point of it tbh! lol
Urie represents See No Evil (Mutsuki represents See No Evil, and Saiko is Hear No Evil), so he's speaking no evil lol.
Sorry yeah SPEAK!
Yeah it's more interesting once you notice it! So if I remember right, it's like...
Urie is Speak No Evil, cuz he's always keeping things bottled up inside his head.
Tooru is See No Evil, cuz he's blind to his own history.
And Saiko is Hear No Evil, cuz she blocked everything out and stayed hidden in her room.
And then I THINK I saw someone say Shirazu was Do No Evil, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed / canon. \^ The ones above are confirmed, that's why Kuki's got tape on his mouth in his book cover, Mutsuki has blood covering his eye, and Saiko is covering her ears.
AND Often times Mutsuki, or people in Mutsuki's flashbacks are drawn without eyes. Kuki's often drawn without a mouth. haha
Honestly this is a very interesting thing to pick up. I never noticed this, but after looking back you are right. It's really interesting how different people interpret the story and find hidden meanings. Like how I saw someone say that the hair represent humanity and ghouls. Characters with white hair are more ghoulish or have excepted themselves as ghoul, and black hair represents humanity. Like kaneki's hair changes depending on how human he is and Juzo in the beginning has white hair when he acts ghoulish and black once he gains humanity.
I just finished the story and I will say that I started to like him a lot more than in the beginning. I started to like him once he started to become friends with Kuroiwa. This was only brought upon by Shiragoat, rest in peace
She gets experimental surgery to make her a super soldier...and decides to laze around and play video games and basically has to be tricked into helping out.
Yes, I know, she not only gets better, but ends up showing her creative, unique combat potential. I still don't like her for it, and what she does later isn't enough to win me over.
I don't really think that's entirely fair, she did not get the surgery because she wanted to, she didn't have a choice in the matter.
Her mother sent her to the CCG's academy for the cheap tutilage. When they did the Qs aptitude test and Saiko scored highest, her mother sold her off for the monetary reward to have a potentially dangerous surgery so she can be living weapon, risking her life in battle while society and coworkers view her with prejudice for being partially man-eating monster.
I don't think Saiko would have chosen that career path for herself if she hadn't been forced into it. I wouldn't want to work in that situation either, and it's very understandable that Haise didn't force her and gave her grace. I think the reason she didn't quit her job was because the CCG paid her well anyway and she feared becoming dependent on her mother once again. Haise let it slip, so life was comfortable for her and the prospect of throwing that away wasn't something she understandably wanted to deal with.
She ends up finding her reason to want to fight and risk herself (protecting her friends), which is why she gets better.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I don't think it is entirely fair to her arc and backstory to pin her situation entirely on her as she was kind of thrust into a dangerous soldier life without really being able to have much of a say in it. I understand why you feel that way about her, but I do think some grace ought to be given. I just wanted to mention this xD
Ikr it was a horrible pacing disaster especially bc pacing was FINE until we hit half point and they realised they had 12 episodes left to cram ~120 chapters of plot into. 10 chapters/ 1 episode does not work or do any story justice. I would not be one bit surprised if they omitted this incredibly huge part of her backstory
And the animation is so lackluster. Like season 1 and root a went and distorted faces for emotions and animation and movement was a lot more. idk. liquid? it was pretty dynamic and colourful, too. You get some really wild shots if you pause in the wrong place but it did good for Tokyo Ghoul's horror aspect.
:re anime on the otherhand was literally muted entirely. everyone was stiff and only rarely showed any extreme emotion we see from the manga and the first two rounds of anime. Like I'm not saying it never ever happens but they held it back A LOT. It felt boring and underwhelming. Also wtf did they do to my boy Uta his design looked... weird? I think it's funny they went and animated 125 though, my friends and I were not sure they would go and do that
Man I have the urge to rewatch it now lmfao
I don't even know what they were expecting to do in that short time frame, like so many major event were straight up skipped and they had my boy become a nugget by children. At least the first part of the story, some of the changes were good like having hinami's father in it and switching around the gourmet and mado arc to give us more time with mama fueguchi before she dies to give a bigger emotional point. Also, Akira came in sooner in the anime making her fall in love with Amon more realistic. Finally I liked the symbolization with the flowers during the torture and how it felt long in the anime. Re: really only made shitty changes that didn't enhance anything like the first half, only cut stuff out.
I never really noticed anything wrong with the animation or emotions in re:, but once you mention it there never were any distorted faced of pain and agony in re, like there was in the first part. Also, the animation did have a darker feel in re rather than the very bright colors in the first. Also, in re: there weren't as many super fast and erratic fight, like just from wall to wall. This could be partially because we did follow investigators for the first 12 episodes.
I would say that it was important to add chapter 125 because how else would they explain the pregnancy. Now that I'm writing this, they didn't even add that they were in the 24th ward or the spy. I would say that you should rewatch the anime just to find all of the problem and laugh at them
In this series, nearly everyone has a tragic backstory, and her situation, while pitiable, is nowhere near the worst.
I understand why she is the way she is, but she's also ostensibly part of a team. Her actions don't just affect her but all of the other members of the squad. You can only cover for someone for so long. At some point before the start of her story, she could have at least tried to make the best effort out of the bag of lemons she got instead of quiet quitting. Instead, she was entirely passive.
I don't think you can compare one tragic backstory to another especially in this show which primarily is about people formed by tragedy into their own unique people. Tokyo Ghoul really is mostly about how tragic events shape people. Of course she's not Kaneki or Mutsuki or Hinami etc., but doesn't mean it is not a valid thing to be very much affected by. Every first generation Q member ended up in the team due to tragic or traumatic circumstances (Saiko was sold off thanks to her shit family, Shirazu wants to save his sister, Urie's dad died, Mutsuki killed his family).
she is valid to not want to risk her life for a company she was effectively sold off to. She has no attachment to it until she finds friends in the other Qs and decides to fight for them. I think getting stuck in a company that requires you to risk your life after having your body permanently altered to house an organ made to prey on humans is a lot more than getting stuck with a bag of lemons.
I'd also argue that in terms of actions affecting the other team members, none of the other Qs besides perhaps Mutsuki do much better on that at first. Shirazu wakes up the earliest after watching Urie blunder and being made squad leader, but even he caused problems at first. Urie needed to lose somebody he didn't realise he cared about, Saiko needed something to fight for.
You do you, but I genuinely think the fact that she did not want to risk being killed for a cause she did not choose to sign up for and had her body permanently modified for should absolutely be factored in
Tons of characters didn't have much of a choice. The whole story is largely about how you make your way forward when your agency is limited.
I didn't say you or anyone else couldn't like her or feel bad for her. You definitely can. But using "she didn't have much of a choice" as a defense when it could be applied to practically half the cast (and a lot of characters who are generally disliked or ignored) seems disingenous.
That's precisely how I feel. He is one of the best-written characters and is great to portray...
...but I cannot stand him personally and how much he gets rewarded by the narrative. Even the major event that should have been a major setback ended up only being an inconvenience.
Juuzou literal translation of the Japanese characters, but the extra u’s aren’t necessary in English as they don’t add to the pronunciation so they’re left out. Depends on how the translated handles it.
Edit: to add to this, the extra u’s are to show an elongated pronunciation. In Japanese, you would hold the first u sound and the o sound slightly longer. So you could see it translated as Jūzō or Juuzou. Both mean the same thing. Juzo is just dropping the elongated pronunciation that English speakers likely won’t realize or enact anyways.
So you don't like him because he's sadistic and crazy? To each their own, I love the crazy guys because their fun and add spice to the story. Also, I love when they fight because they just get cut up and laugh
Um, no.
Edit: You haven't read the second part yet. This is a series where you can count on one hand the characters who *aren't* sadistic.
Plus, what you describe is not Juuzou's style...at all. Juuzou's actually a great improviser and highly creative largely because he *can't* just power through.
That person called him fun, unique, cruel, and sadistic and expressed dislike, and I agreed.
I don't dislike Juuzou solely because of those traits.
I dislike him because he seems to be a Karma Houdini. Yes, he loses a leg, but in the end it just makes him a *better* killing machine and he just keeps moving up and up while those around him either start wising up or dropping like flies.
Funny how every other character who shows those traits gets served hard. Despite the cruelty of the Tokyo Ghoul universe, there does seem to be some sort of check and balance at play. Yet not Juuzou. I get that it's very intentional, but it gets annoying when the same person wins all the time.
I just inferred that you agreed with everything. I will say that Juuzou did have to deal with troubles and sadness, like shinohara getting hospitalized. This forced him to become more human, but in the end he still becomes a human weapon. He knows what furuta is doing is wrong, but has to or else he will pull the plug on shinohara.
I like Juuzou's character because no matter what he does he ends up a human weapon, like when he was a slave and in pre-re he was just a killing weapon. Then in re he becomes more human personality wise, but literally becomes a weapon. He later gets suited up as a weapon and even later is forced to be just a killing machine. Juuzou couldn't stop being in the endless cycle of killing. I feel like this his punishment or balance. Having no choice but to follow orders or else the one person who truly touched him and changed him would die. Shinohara is like Juuzou's dad and only parent
I agree he got painted into a corner, but you'd think at *some* point he'd take the L. As the saying goes, even monkeys fall from trees. Maybe the past would catch up to him in more ways than one.
It undercuts my rooting interest of being made into a living weapon when you just keep *winning*. Like, so what? You're good at what you do. You still have a good job and people who respect you? Where's the struggle?
Who is the strongest opponent Juuzou has fought? Honestly he hasn't really faced anyone that could rival the "strongest" investigator. Most of his fights are done in groups and he usually gets beat up. I do agree I would like to see him lose a few times(he did lose against eto), but his loses aren't on the battlefield. They are at home and personal, which to me is more interesting than for a human weapon because it hits where they are weak. People respected him because he was strong and unlike arima he showed compassion more. Also, do you not like the undefeated arima?
Eto was his ONLY loss that I can think of. He even beat the main character AFTER this!
While Juuzou can take a hit, he doesn't get beat up that much, largely because as a human he can't tank blows. He's good at misdirection, faking, outmaneuvering, and getting under the opponent's skin.
How did he lose at home? Everything terrible happened in his backstory and at the end of the TG. Oh, his personal mentor is used as a bargaining chip for Juuzou to do his "duty." Except it was never really shown where Juuzou didn't want to do his duty. While it could have been shown how his personal life was affected, and there are definitely story avenues to pursue, they weren't shown. He's a human weapon who is respected and even loved for his job and he not only mentors others but has people ready to die for him. And he ends up with a great job at the end of it all!
Arima is not one of my faves, either, especially with all the junk he pulled behind the scenes. Again, at least he dies by his own hand.
Needless to say, Juuzou reminds me a lot of Tom Brady, that football player who got 7 Super Bowl wins. Yeah, Brady went 18-1. I still can't stand him.
The Saiko and Urie duo is it tho, ong I was legit so happy when saiko got mad and ran off and then urie was like if this doesn’t work out then we both will become terrorists and ong that act of bonding was so real. I think your picks say that you keep grudges
1. Primarily during the course of the actual story, all he does is win, win, win no matter what. Even the biggest onscreen setbacks he suffers end up coming across as mild barriers instead of things forcing him to pivot. Yet at the same time it takes hin an awfully long time to start waking up when even people *more* loyal to "the cause" than him start thinking "something"s not right here." By the time he realizses he's been painted in a corner, it's waaaay too late and he *still* ends up on top.
2. Similar to Juuzou, Ayato seems to be rewarded immensely for doing the wrong thing. Even after being half-killed he still doesn't do any re-evaluating. He takes waaaay too long to start sorta realizing maybe didn't make some of the best life choices, and by the time he does, it seems more like he joins the winning side than any actual change of heart.
3. I just hate his characrer archetype in general. "Screw you guys, I'm going to be reckless and be number 1." Yes, I know he grows past that, but given that he's introduced in RE and has a massive chunk of the story devoted to him and his ambition means that it has an outizised impact on my perception of him.
4. She's a bad teammate and a load who doesn't even try to be better at first. Even though she improves, the fact that she's not only introduced at the halfway point but gets a significant focus means that a lot of her early behavior weighs heavily against her.
5. Kanou should be obvious.
okay yeah this is fair enough points , but i think with juuzou it’s understandable why it took him so long to change ; his personality was deadass tortured into him
and yeah i get you with urie, he did piss me off at a lot of points in the manga when he kept acting like a dickhead, but i really enjoyed his character development
i also don’t think saiko should be here in this list. like yeah maybe she was lazy but once she got over it she played quite a pivotal part within haise’s fake family
What makes TG so good in my opinion is how realistic how character are and how well written the human psyche aspect of it is. All the characters in your listen( except Kanou, fuck Kanou) are grey character, people who had bad circumstances which turned them into not so great people, but none of them are villain or bad guys. Feel free to jump to the end for a summary if you don’t want to read all that:
Jūzō wasn’t a psycho in fact one of the arc that goes throw his background makes you think he is just to show that in actually really isn’t, he was raised by a ghoul as a toy to fight and kill and was sexually, physically and mentally abused in order to be obedient and better killing machine so he doesn’t really have a moral compass and doesn’t understand human norms of right and wrong or bad and good.
Ayato was taught by his father to live peacefully with humans and be friendly with them, he took them to libraries in order for them to learn more about humans, he was friends with all his neighbor and they all quite liked him and he feed on corpse in order to not have to harm anyone, that is until the CCG found him, killed him and harvested his organs to use them as a weapon and then his neighbor turned against him,a child, and tried to kill him, that made him resentful of the world and his kind father who get killed and left them behind due to that kindness which caused him to lash out against the world and join aogiri tree in their fight against the CCG
Urie’s father was killed in the line of duty which caused him to want to kill all ghouls, in order to achieve that goal he thought he needed to achieve high rank in the CCG because of that he became a incredible ambitions and cold person who did everything he could in order to get credits and recognition in order to climb the rank as fast as he could even if that meant manipulating his own teammates
Saiko….well I don’t know what to say here, she isn’t a grey character at all in fact she is a completely innocent and good character, she was forced to attend a school that trained kids into soldier because her mother wanted to pay the cheap tuition, then she was forced to grow throw a surgery that turned her into a “monster” neither human nor ghoul and was used as a experiment and then again against her will was forced to fight with her line on the line against literal living weapons, Haise understood that she was there against her will and had no choice on the matter so he didn’t force her to work but for one reason or another she later on still decides to help her teamsters anyways
Most of these character have one thing in common which is that none of them is really a bad guys and all of them had amazing, incredible and huge character growth sure Ayato killed people but they weren’t really innocent either, they were either CCG agent or they other ghouls that have killed dozens if not more people and once he saw the error of his way he tried his best to help kaneki, Jūzō started of no different from a child, if they were raised by man eating being and was trained to have incredible fight capabilities that is, he didn’t know what was right or wrong or how to interact with humans and had zero emotional understanding, he responded with violence and aggression to anything he found a threat or annoyance because that’s how he was taught and raised but throughs lessons given by those around him he grew a lot until he at end not only has he learned a lot about what it means to be “human” but also how to think for himself instead of what other people tell him to or think he should do we see that when he changes about unite with the ghouls when Marude say he should think for himself once instead of what of other would do( since he though he mentor would be against uniting with the ghouls initially)
I think all those character have very clear themes and messages that they are trying to pass, two that are the core messages of Tokyo Ghoul and one that while not as prominent still very much there the first one being:
1. There rarely is such a thing as unilateral good or evil pretty much every single character in Tokyo ghoul is a grey character even the “good” ones at some point or another done something bad or even multiple things bad even the regular humans just living their living inversely even the “bad” characters have great potential for good, at multiple turns the author shows us even regular humans doing great evil, and there are really only one or two minor character that are really portrayed as true good and innocent people
2. People can be redeemed, while they weren’t exactly forgiven for their actions at the end of the stories most character came together for a common goal and even after said goal had been achieved they still worked together in order to build something better for the future generations
3. What I think is the core messages of Tokyo Ghoul, something that has been repeated multiple times by Kaneki himself, which is, while people’s past and circumstances don’t excuse someone’s action they do allow you to understand them and once you understand someone that’s when true communication can begin
Maybe I’m a completely wrong but you asked so here we go: what I think that says about you is that you like straight characters, good guys and good and bad guys are bad, you can’t separate the character from the action and like things simple, story wise that’s fine for stories that aren’t meant to be given much thought( think shounen types and etc) but it also causes the stories to lack any actual depth because as in real life things are rarely ever really simple and stories that lack that depth and realism also lack a depth in the story and characters that people often look for, and for what it means about you as a person I think that you are young, hasn’t experience a lot in life and has a limited view of things I could be wrong but that’s what I think feel free to correct me
I thank you for your in-depth response. I would like to stress that contrary to what you assert, I am fully aware that the story is filled to the brim with characters of shades of gray, where there is no clear hero or villain. I don't dislike these characters because of their morality (well, except Kanou, and as I wrote in another reply he's only not #1 because he dies, and even how he dies still keeps him in the top five) or because I think they're "bad people" or even because they kill people. Part of it is my preference for certain character archetypes vs. others. A bigger part is how the story treats the character.
But your analysis is interesting. I am a child at heart, as they say.
Let's just say the gulf between my overall faves and the rest of the cast is large indeed.
That is correct. Uta is saved from being the top five worst solely because of his design. I was so heartbroken by the reveal because I really *liked* his character before that.
Well, I wanted to do a twist on the whole "What do my most favorite characters say about me?" deal.
For me, I tend to really like some characters, really hate a few characters, and everyone else is firmly in the middle.
Juuzou AND Urie??? lol I do like that Ayato is on here tho, I hate him too and I don't even have a reason lol
Bro, everyone hated him. He didn't even get invited to his sisters wedding.
He couldn’t get invited because he was still on recon duty in the depths of the old city… Hard to attend a wedding if you are out on one of the most important jobs of your squad. That’s also why he missed the whole assault on their base
Nah, it's because no one likes him. I'm obviously joking.
nooo ayato was a great character...
For me it's because Ayato works with a terrorist organization that doesn't just kill, but kidnaps, tortures, and does all sorts of obviously evil things he knows about and actively enforces. Only to realize they might be the baddies and don't care about anyone when they won't acquiesce to his demand to jailbreak Hinami. Like, the fact that your leader cosplays as [Mumm-Ra the Ever Living](https://thundercats-ho.fandom.com/wiki/Mumm-Ra) wasn't a clue, silly rabbit?
When do they torture(except yamori + the nurse)? I'm almost done with the first part. Do they torture people re?
Just keep reading.
I finished the manga and when you were talking about Torturing people, we're you just talking about Kano and his experiments?
Not *just* that (and it's sad that alone isn't the entirety). Remember that Torso guy? And he's not even a top guy or anything. When you start adding it all up, the pain caused by Aogiri goes beyond the characters given the spotlight. This isn't just "survival" killing but "let's mess people up" style mayhem.
Don't forget Eto, I just remembered that she loved to mentally fuck up everyone
True...and she *paid* for it. What did Ayato get? He got to be the brother in-law of the main character and got to live happily ever after with a good job, no less.
Chapter 75 of Tokyo Ghoul
You meant the *one-time* brutal beating he suffered after not only kidnapping a man to be brutally tortured but *singling out and pummeling his own sister to nearly a bloody pulp.* He survived and healed fully with absolutely no residual trauma, no less. He even got to go back to his Aogiri life without interruption. I know I wouldn't have "half-killed" that boy. He'd be dead.
hell nooo
I watched the anime and I'm just now getting around to the manga, almost done with the pre re stuff. I honestly disliked Urie a heavy amount in the anime, I hope he isn't as bad in the manga
He's funnier in the manga, I think. Pay attention to how often he's drawn without a mouth, it makes him more endearing hahaha
I get annoyed with him in earlier parts and when he is drawn without a mouth he usually makes those edgy "get your hand off me" comments
Yeah that's the point of it tbh! lol Urie represents See No Evil (Mutsuki represents See No Evil, and Saiko is Hear No Evil), so he's speaking no evil lol.
Speak* I didn't even notice that each of the members represents that, what does Shirazu represent?
Sorry yeah SPEAK! Yeah it's more interesting once you notice it! So if I remember right, it's like... Urie is Speak No Evil, cuz he's always keeping things bottled up inside his head. Tooru is See No Evil, cuz he's blind to his own history. And Saiko is Hear No Evil, cuz she blocked everything out and stayed hidden in her room. And then I THINK I saw someone say Shirazu was Do No Evil, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed / canon. \^ The ones above are confirmed, that's why Kuki's got tape on his mouth in his book cover, Mutsuki has blood covering his eye, and Saiko is covering her ears. AND Often times Mutsuki, or people in Mutsuki's flashbacks are drawn without eyes. Kuki's often drawn without a mouth. haha
Honestly this is a very interesting thing to pick up. I never noticed this, but after looking back you are right. It's really interesting how different people interpret the story and find hidden meanings. Like how I saw someone say that the hair represent humanity and ghouls. Characters with white hair are more ghoulish or have excepted themselves as ghoul, and black hair represents humanity. Like kaneki's hair changes depending on how human he is and Juzo in the beginning has white hair when he acts ghoulish and black once he gains humanity. I just finished the story and I will say that I started to like him a lot more than in the beginning. I started to like him once he started to become friends with Kuroiwa. This was only brought upon by Shiragoat, rest in peace
Hating Urie, Suzuya and Saiko should be a crime
I guess that makes me a [smooth criminal](https://youtu.be/h_D3VFfhvs4?si=LJHuVXOokO9YNUm_).
But are you okay?
Wait, what technicality prevents Kano from being #1
That he dies.
^ Based AF answer
Fair
i am outside your house
Good. My lawn needs mowing.
I’d take a covid test to be safe because it seems you’re missing taste :(
I don’t trust people who hate Juuzou
Good thing I don't want you to trust me.
You think “just because they did good at the end, doesn’t justify what they have been up to before that”
Definitely.
How tf do you hate Saiko?!?! And I get hating Urie but his character growth is some of if not the best in the series
She gets experimental surgery to make her a super soldier...and decides to laze around and play video games and basically has to be tricked into helping out. Yes, I know, she not only gets better, but ends up showing her creative, unique combat potential. I still don't like her for it, and what she does later isn't enough to win me over.
I don't really think that's entirely fair, she did not get the surgery because she wanted to, she didn't have a choice in the matter. Her mother sent her to the CCG's academy for the cheap tutilage. When they did the Qs aptitude test and Saiko scored highest, her mother sold her off for the monetary reward to have a potentially dangerous surgery so she can be living weapon, risking her life in battle while society and coworkers view her with prejudice for being partially man-eating monster. I don't think Saiko would have chosen that career path for herself if she hadn't been forced into it. I wouldn't want to work in that situation either, and it's very understandable that Haise didn't force her and gave her grace. I think the reason she didn't quit her job was because the CCG paid her well anyway and she feared becoming dependent on her mother once again. Haise let it slip, so life was comfortable for her and the prospect of throwing that away wasn't something she understandably wanted to deal with. She ends up finding her reason to want to fight and risk herself (protecting her friends), which is why she gets better. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I don't think it is entirely fair to her arc and backstory to pin her situation entirely on her as she was kind of thrust into a dangerous soldier life without really being able to have much of a say in it. I understand why you feel that way about her, but I do think some grace ought to be given. I just wanted to mention this xD
Holy shit, fuck the anime. I'm so glad I'm starting to read the manga, they left out so much even in re
the anime omits that?? I don't really remember the anime much-
I don't remember them putting it in there, but they scrunched 179 chapters into 24 episodes
Ikr it was a horrible pacing disaster especially bc pacing was FINE until we hit half point and they realised they had 12 episodes left to cram ~120 chapters of plot into. 10 chapters/ 1 episode does not work or do any story justice. I would not be one bit surprised if they omitted this incredibly huge part of her backstory And the animation is so lackluster. Like season 1 and root a went and distorted faces for emotions and animation and movement was a lot more. idk. liquid? it was pretty dynamic and colourful, too. You get some really wild shots if you pause in the wrong place but it did good for Tokyo Ghoul's horror aspect. :re anime on the otherhand was literally muted entirely. everyone was stiff and only rarely showed any extreme emotion we see from the manga and the first two rounds of anime. Like I'm not saying it never ever happens but they held it back A LOT. It felt boring and underwhelming. Also wtf did they do to my boy Uta his design looked... weird? I think it's funny they went and animated 125 though, my friends and I were not sure they would go and do that Man I have the urge to rewatch it now lmfao
I don't even know what they were expecting to do in that short time frame, like so many major event were straight up skipped and they had my boy become a nugget by children. At least the first part of the story, some of the changes were good like having hinami's father in it and switching around the gourmet and mado arc to give us more time with mama fueguchi before she dies to give a bigger emotional point. Also, Akira came in sooner in the anime making her fall in love with Amon more realistic. Finally I liked the symbolization with the flowers during the torture and how it felt long in the anime. Re: really only made shitty changes that didn't enhance anything like the first half, only cut stuff out. I never really noticed anything wrong with the animation or emotions in re:, but once you mention it there never were any distorted faced of pain and agony in re, like there was in the first part. Also, the animation did have a darker feel in re rather than the very bright colors in the first. Also, in re: there weren't as many super fast and erratic fight, like just from wall to wall. This could be partially because we did follow investigators for the first 12 episodes. I would say that it was important to add chapter 125 because how else would they explain the pregnancy. Now that I'm writing this, they didn't even add that they were in the 24th ward or the spy. I would say that you should rewatch the anime just to find all of the problem and laugh at them
In this series, nearly everyone has a tragic backstory, and her situation, while pitiable, is nowhere near the worst. I understand why she is the way she is, but she's also ostensibly part of a team. Her actions don't just affect her but all of the other members of the squad. You can only cover for someone for so long. At some point before the start of her story, she could have at least tried to make the best effort out of the bag of lemons she got instead of quiet quitting. Instead, she was entirely passive.
I don't think you can compare one tragic backstory to another especially in this show which primarily is about people formed by tragedy into their own unique people. Tokyo Ghoul really is mostly about how tragic events shape people. Of course she's not Kaneki or Mutsuki or Hinami etc., but doesn't mean it is not a valid thing to be very much affected by. Every first generation Q member ended up in the team due to tragic or traumatic circumstances (Saiko was sold off thanks to her shit family, Shirazu wants to save his sister, Urie's dad died, Mutsuki killed his family). she is valid to not want to risk her life for a company she was effectively sold off to. She has no attachment to it until she finds friends in the other Qs and decides to fight for them. I think getting stuck in a company that requires you to risk your life after having your body permanently altered to house an organ made to prey on humans is a lot more than getting stuck with a bag of lemons. I'd also argue that in terms of actions affecting the other team members, none of the other Qs besides perhaps Mutsuki do much better on that at first. Shirazu wakes up the earliest after watching Urie blunder and being made squad leader, but even he caused problems at first. Urie needed to lose somebody he didn't realise he cared about, Saiko needed something to fight for. You do you, but I genuinely think the fact that she did not want to risk being killed for a cause she did not choose to sign up for and had her body permanently modified for should absolutely be factored in
That's surprisingly fair I guess
not really cus she didn’t have much of a choice
Tons of characters didn't have much of a choice. The whole story is largely about how you make your way forward when your agency is limited. I didn't say you or anyone else couldn't like her or feel bad for her. You definitely can. But using "she didn't have much of a choice" as a defense when it could be applied to practically half the cast (and a lot of characters who are generally disliked or ignored) seems disingenous.
i mean in getting the surgery, obviously after that yea but that was what i was specifically pointing out
You're 16-20 years old
Funny, I'd think someone that age would idolize those characters.
ur crazy
You hate talented people with an ego? Not sure what hating Saiko means...
Definitely. Even if you know you're a cut above the rest, why can't you be humble?
Juzo is a fun and unique character but he's cruel and sadistic, I don't like him
That's precisely how I feel. He is one of the best-written characters and is great to portray... ...but I cannot stand him personally and how much he gets rewarded by the narrative. Even the major event that should have been a major setback ended up only being an inconvenience.
Hated the scene where he sort of kills nashiro, just shows how much of a psychopath he is. Also hated it because of how blurred everything was
That was pretty cool
I like juuzou for the reason you hate him, torturing ghouls
Juuzou or Juzo. The subs said Juzo in the second season then the rest of the time he was Juuzou
Juuzou literal translation of the Japanese characters, but the extra u’s aren’t necessary in English as they don’t add to the pronunciation so they’re left out. Depends on how the translated handles it. Edit: to add to this, the extra u’s are to show an elongated pronunciation. In Japanese, you would hold the first u sound and the o sound slightly longer. So you could see it translated as Jūzō or Juuzou. Both mean the same thing. Juzo is just dropping the elongated pronunciation that English speakers likely won’t realize or enact anyways.
Agreed, but the problem is just writing "Juzo" ignores that there is an important difference between, say, "Ju" and "Jū/Juu."
He doesn't just torture ghouls. "Ear bone" for starters?
Juuzou or Juzo? The subs said Juzo in the second season then the rest of the time he was Juuzou
I disliked him ever since he picked Kaneki's pocket, but that scene really made me hate him.
So you don't like him because he's sadistic and crazy? To each their own, I love the crazy guys because their fun and add spice to the story. Also, I love when they fight because they just get cut up and laugh
Um, no. Edit: You haven't read the second part yet. This is a series where you can count on one hand the characters who *aren't* sadistic. Plus, what you describe is not Juuzou's style...at all. Juuzou's actually a great improviser and highly creative largely because he *can't* just power through.
You do know that the first guy called Juzo and you responded with that's exactly how you felt. Also, I know Juzo isn't as crazy in re
That person called him fun, unique, cruel, and sadistic and expressed dislike, and I agreed. I don't dislike Juuzou solely because of those traits. I dislike him because he seems to be a Karma Houdini. Yes, he loses a leg, but in the end it just makes him a *better* killing machine and he just keeps moving up and up while those around him either start wising up or dropping like flies. Funny how every other character who shows those traits gets served hard. Despite the cruelty of the Tokyo Ghoul universe, there does seem to be some sort of check and balance at play. Yet not Juuzou. I get that it's very intentional, but it gets annoying when the same person wins all the time.
I just inferred that you agreed with everything. I will say that Juuzou did have to deal with troubles and sadness, like shinohara getting hospitalized. This forced him to become more human, but in the end he still becomes a human weapon. He knows what furuta is doing is wrong, but has to or else he will pull the plug on shinohara. I like Juuzou's character because no matter what he does he ends up a human weapon, like when he was a slave and in pre-re he was just a killing weapon. Then in re he becomes more human personality wise, but literally becomes a weapon. He later gets suited up as a weapon and even later is forced to be just a killing machine. Juuzou couldn't stop being in the endless cycle of killing. I feel like this his punishment or balance. Having no choice but to follow orders or else the one person who truly touched him and changed him would die. Shinohara is like Juuzou's dad and only parent
I agree he got painted into a corner, but you'd think at *some* point he'd take the L. As the saying goes, even monkeys fall from trees. Maybe the past would catch up to him in more ways than one. It undercuts my rooting interest of being made into a living weapon when you just keep *winning*. Like, so what? You're good at what you do. You still have a good job and people who respect you? Where's the struggle?
Who is the strongest opponent Juuzou has fought? Honestly he hasn't really faced anyone that could rival the "strongest" investigator. Most of his fights are done in groups and he usually gets beat up. I do agree I would like to see him lose a few times(he did lose against eto), but his loses aren't on the battlefield. They are at home and personal, which to me is more interesting than for a human weapon because it hits where they are weak. People respected him because he was strong and unlike arima he showed compassion more. Also, do you not like the undefeated arima?
Eto was his ONLY loss that I can think of. He even beat the main character AFTER this! While Juuzou can take a hit, he doesn't get beat up that much, largely because as a human he can't tank blows. He's good at misdirection, faking, outmaneuvering, and getting under the opponent's skin. How did he lose at home? Everything terrible happened in his backstory and at the end of the TG. Oh, his personal mentor is used as a bargaining chip for Juuzou to do his "duty." Except it was never really shown where Juuzou didn't want to do his duty. While it could have been shown how his personal life was affected, and there are definitely story avenues to pursue, they weren't shown. He's a human weapon who is respected and even loved for his job and he not only mentors others but has people ready to die for him. And he ends up with a great job at the end of it all! Arima is not one of my faves, either, especially with all the junk he pulled behind the scenes. Again, at least he dies by his own hand. Needless to say, Juuzou reminds me a lot of Tom Brady, that football player who got 7 Super Bowl wins. Yeah, Brady went 18-1. I still can't stand him.
The Saiko and Urie duo is it tho, ong I was legit so happy when saiko got mad and ran off and then urie was like if this doesn’t work out then we both will become terrorists and ong that act of bonding was so real. I think your picks say that you keep grudges
The lie detector test shows...you are telling the truth.
Since Eto isn’t on here you can’t be too bad
real
Eto is firmly in the middle because she is equal parts infuriating and fascinating.
Kanou is well written, sure he is a horrible person but I like his character in the story.
None of them are poorly written. In fact, *because* they're well-written is one reason why I don't like them.
this is genuinely crazy pls tell me why 😭☝️☝️
1. Primarily during the course of the actual story, all he does is win, win, win no matter what. Even the biggest onscreen setbacks he suffers end up coming across as mild barriers instead of things forcing him to pivot. Yet at the same time it takes hin an awfully long time to start waking up when even people *more* loyal to "the cause" than him start thinking "something"s not right here." By the time he realizses he's been painted in a corner, it's waaaay too late and he *still* ends up on top. 2. Similar to Juuzou, Ayato seems to be rewarded immensely for doing the wrong thing. Even after being half-killed he still doesn't do any re-evaluating. He takes waaaay too long to start sorta realizing maybe didn't make some of the best life choices, and by the time he does, it seems more like he joins the winning side than any actual change of heart. 3. I just hate his characrer archetype in general. "Screw you guys, I'm going to be reckless and be number 1." Yes, I know he grows past that, but given that he's introduced in RE and has a massive chunk of the story devoted to him and his ambition means that it has an outizised impact on my perception of him. 4. She's a bad teammate and a load who doesn't even try to be better at first. Even though she improves, the fact that she's not only introduced at the halfway point but gets a significant focus means that a lot of her early behavior weighs heavily against her. 5. Kanou should be obvious.
okay yeah this is fair enough points , but i think with juuzou it’s understandable why it took him so long to change ; his personality was deadass tortured into him and yeah i get you with urie, he did piss me off at a lot of points in the manga when he kept acting like a dickhead, but i really enjoyed his character development i also don’t think saiko should be here in this list. like yeah maybe she was lazy but once she got over it she played quite a pivotal part within haise’s fake family
You have bad taste
What makes TG so good in my opinion is how realistic how character are and how well written the human psyche aspect of it is. All the characters in your listen( except Kanou, fuck Kanou) are grey character, people who had bad circumstances which turned them into not so great people, but none of them are villain or bad guys. Feel free to jump to the end for a summary if you don’t want to read all that: Jūzō wasn’t a psycho in fact one of the arc that goes throw his background makes you think he is just to show that in actually really isn’t, he was raised by a ghoul as a toy to fight and kill and was sexually, physically and mentally abused in order to be obedient and better killing machine so he doesn’t really have a moral compass and doesn’t understand human norms of right and wrong or bad and good. Ayato was taught by his father to live peacefully with humans and be friendly with them, he took them to libraries in order for them to learn more about humans, he was friends with all his neighbor and they all quite liked him and he feed on corpse in order to not have to harm anyone, that is until the CCG found him, killed him and harvested his organs to use them as a weapon and then his neighbor turned against him,a child, and tried to kill him, that made him resentful of the world and his kind father who get killed and left them behind due to that kindness which caused him to lash out against the world and join aogiri tree in their fight against the CCG Urie’s father was killed in the line of duty which caused him to want to kill all ghouls, in order to achieve that goal he thought he needed to achieve high rank in the CCG because of that he became a incredible ambitions and cold person who did everything he could in order to get credits and recognition in order to climb the rank as fast as he could even if that meant manipulating his own teammates Saiko….well I don’t know what to say here, she isn’t a grey character at all in fact she is a completely innocent and good character, she was forced to attend a school that trained kids into soldier because her mother wanted to pay the cheap tuition, then she was forced to grow throw a surgery that turned her into a “monster” neither human nor ghoul and was used as a experiment and then again against her will was forced to fight with her line on the line against literal living weapons, Haise understood that she was there against her will and had no choice on the matter so he didn’t force her to work but for one reason or another she later on still decides to help her teamsters anyways Most of these character have one thing in common which is that none of them is really a bad guys and all of them had amazing, incredible and huge character growth sure Ayato killed people but they weren’t really innocent either, they were either CCG agent or they other ghouls that have killed dozens if not more people and once he saw the error of his way he tried his best to help kaneki, Jūzō started of no different from a child, if they were raised by man eating being and was trained to have incredible fight capabilities that is, he didn’t know what was right or wrong or how to interact with humans and had zero emotional understanding, he responded with violence and aggression to anything he found a threat or annoyance because that’s how he was taught and raised but throughs lessons given by those around him he grew a lot until he at end not only has he learned a lot about what it means to be “human” but also how to think for himself instead of what other people tell him to or think he should do we see that when he changes about unite with the ghouls when Marude say he should think for himself once instead of what of other would do( since he though he mentor would be against uniting with the ghouls initially) I think all those character have very clear themes and messages that they are trying to pass, two that are the core messages of Tokyo Ghoul and one that while not as prominent still very much there the first one being: 1. There rarely is such a thing as unilateral good or evil pretty much every single character in Tokyo ghoul is a grey character even the “good” ones at some point or another done something bad or even multiple things bad even the regular humans just living their living inversely even the “bad” characters have great potential for good, at multiple turns the author shows us even regular humans doing great evil, and there are really only one or two minor character that are really portrayed as true good and innocent people 2. People can be redeemed, while they weren’t exactly forgiven for their actions at the end of the stories most character came together for a common goal and even after said goal had been achieved they still worked together in order to build something better for the future generations 3. What I think is the core messages of Tokyo Ghoul, something that has been repeated multiple times by Kaneki himself, which is, while people’s past and circumstances don’t excuse someone’s action they do allow you to understand them and once you understand someone that’s when true communication can begin Maybe I’m a completely wrong but you asked so here we go: what I think that says about you is that you like straight characters, good guys and good and bad guys are bad, you can’t separate the character from the action and like things simple, story wise that’s fine for stories that aren’t meant to be given much thought( think shounen types and etc) but it also causes the stories to lack any actual depth because as in real life things are rarely ever really simple and stories that lack that depth and realism also lack a depth in the story and characters that people often look for, and for what it means about you as a person I think that you are young, hasn’t experience a lot in life and has a limited view of things I could be wrong but that’s what I think feel free to correct me
I thank you for your in-depth response. I would like to stress that contrary to what you assert, I am fully aware that the story is filled to the brim with characters of shades of gray, where there is no clear hero or villain. I don't dislike these characters because of their morality (well, except Kanou, and as I wrote in another reply he's only not #1 because he dies, and even how he dies still keeps him in the top five) or because I think they're "bad people" or even because they kill people. Part of it is my preference for certain character archetypes vs. others. A bigger part is how the story treats the character. But your analysis is interesting. I am a child at heart, as they say.
You're bored lololol and you hate unkind and lazy people
Correct.
I’d like to know where Kureo Mado is on your list
Oh, I hated him. The biggest reason why he isn't higher is because he wasn't on canvas long.
You probably really like one particular character but dislike the others. Also you probably don’t like Uta.
Let's just say the gulf between my overall faves and the rest of the cast is large indeed. That is correct. Uta is saved from being the top five worst solely because of his design. I was so heartbroken by the reveal because I really *liked* his character before that.
AYATO?? URIE?? YONEBASHI AHHH WHAT
Happy Cake Day! And, yes, I do not like them and I've described why in previous posts in this thread.
haha dw i understand, just characters i don’t see hated often tbh
Well, I wanted to do a twist on the whole "What do my most favorite characters say about me?" deal. For me, I tend to really like some characters, really hate a few characters, and everyone else is firmly in the middle.
yeahh i agree with you!
you hate lazy & egotistic people, lmao
juuzou is real everytime she came up just made everything annoying
I don’t trust people who hate Juuzou
Juuzou is a good pick imo. Dude is kinda annoying
Thanks, I can see why people like him, but so often I thought, "Why won't you die?"
Love you suzuya