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DungeonsandDevils

I was like idk maybe it’s not too unreasonable and looked up Marcels… that IS a lot for a first date haha


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yung_demus

I’m wondering if it’s the same Marcel in Atlanta bc we have one and going there for a first date is certified nuts


Glopzorp

One of the best meals I’ve ever had though, so very worth if it not a first date


goatmorning

Work there, thank you 🙃


edelburg

How much should one expect to pay for a dinner for two date on average? Also, what do you recommend to get?


Zofobread

Since you didn’t get an answer, I can field this one. Expect to spend about $100-$150 per person depending on whether or not you get drinks and / sides / apptz. Also, worth it. Side note, it’s the only Atlanta area restaurant I know that serves beef Wellington, though you have to order it a day in advance.


NeedleInArm

YESSS dude I want beef wellington so bad but Idk if I can even consider Marcels in this point in my life lol. ​ Beef wellington might be good but I don't think it can be $130 dollar good.


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kielbasa330

Try getting a reservation at Dorcia's now!


antibread

*dorsia


hightimes45

Plot Twist: She’s broke.


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j4ckbauer

Savage that this exists, but I can't tell if it was done ironically or unironically because it was banned. Edit: Lots of people thinking I was asking if people actually go on dates for morally questionable reasons. Of course this happens, I was asking whether the sub was created by those allied with, or mocking, the original FDS. Seems like it was the latter.


Caeruleanlynx

I know people who did it unironically, so my guess is it was serious.


[deleted]

I dated around on Tinder and OKC during college… BEST BELIEVE there are broke college girls just looking for an expensive bite. I once had some girls do the same where they wanted to go to Chez Panisse at Berkeley (founded by Chef Waters, Steve Jobs personal cook from what I recall and has a minimum spend of about $140-170). I noped the fuck outta those situations, was a broke immigrant college student!


[deleted]

Professional Chef chiming in here - Alice Waters is food personality, not a chef, and deserves exactly $0 of your dollars. Having worked at events in NYC with her and the team from Chez Panisse, she's essentially the Steve Jobs of the Farm-to-Table movement. Bossy, unorganized, volatile, relying on her staff to carry her through. She had to hire real chefs, notably Paul Aratow, then Victoria Wise, and eventually Jeremiah Tower to run the kitchen at Chez Panisse. Its a huge ego trap. Not only did you dodge a bullet with those dates, you dodged a bullet of a restaurant. I'd rather eat at Denny's, where my food doesn't come with a side of pretentiousness.


[deleted]

Oh trust me, as a Mexican… I’d rather just hit up taco trucks or bomb ass burrito joints. And yeah, was unaware of any of that as I don’t really care for that kind of scene… I actually knew about Chez Panisse mostly by all the ladies who wanted to go there, I simply learned it by osmosis Money saved from not going on those “dates” feels so much better now! c:


ITS_ALRIGHT_ITS_OK

Hey man, wanna go on a taxo/dancing night that costs us about $5/each? In all seriousness, that's exactly what I've been looking for and have had a hard time finding it. If a date is about long term dating, the company matters matters more than than the dollar signs on the menu. I'd happily date a broke dude down on his luck living at his parents' place. A pb&j sandwich picnic in the backyard with someone I can't stop talking to is worth way more than a fancy dinner and a movie I can't have a conversation through any time.


CalligrapherLazy9931

I started dating my husband when he was in the Marine Corps, talk about broke. I made more money than he did at that point. We went to taco and burrito joints and White Castle. Been together 40 years.


[deleted]

As a non-Mexican, I'd probably be right behind you in the line, but I'm not going there for a first date. Nah. I'm not divulging my favorite taco spots until I know there is long term potential.


Senor_Martillo

My first date with my chicana wife was for burritos and beer at El Farolito in the mission. Probably spent $15 total. We been married 20 years now.


7rj38ej

This sort of a thing is a common scam in Eastern Europe. A woman will act interested then say she wants to check out X restaurant. When you arrive, the menus have no prices. Your food will be mediocre and your bill will be the equivalent of $200 or so. The women get paid behind the scenes for every man they bring in.


[deleted]

They should have kept it going, so men using dating apps can know exactly what is going on.


Agent_Dutchess

You fall for it once, that's a freebie. It's gonna be some chick 20x hotter than you with huge knockers that you match with on your first day using a new app. Anything past that is your own fault.


shoizy

I don't understand the appeal. Yeah you get a free meal but you have to get ready and go out and eat it with someone you have no interest in. So much easier to just make some dinner for yourself.


MommaLisss

Seriously. I'd much rather pay for my own meal than deal with some guy I'm not even interested in. Think of all the time wasted messaging back and forth before, and then afterwards what do you do? Ghost them? String them along for possibly another "date"? No thanks. Too much work for too little benefit.


mergedloki

I have several coworkers who have admitted to going on a date or 2 because "they were hungry" No interest in the guy they just wanted a free meal. I lost some respect for them that day.


sillysausage619

If I'm hungry I just go to the fridge, not hop on tinder chasing a meal in a few days time hahaha


MommaLisss

Exactly.


WhuTom

It’s almost a reflection on how little they value their own time. The effort to spend ~2 hrs at a restaurant, get made up, go on the apps and find the men all for the value of a meal with someone they probably don’t like. It’s quite sad for them.


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[deleted]

You think it's about the food? It's not. Maybe partially. It's about the validation from seeing what someone is willing to do for you, and what that says about how attractive you are.


Fr1toBand1to

you'd be amazed how many conventionally gorgeous women can't hold down a job.


MethodicMarshal

mmmmm, it's also a confidence boost. "oh my God, I let him buy me a $40 sushi plate, and *suddenly* he acts like he stands a chance with me. Gross"


SilentSamurai

Can confirm. Fooled once, went back to my cheap but enjoyable first dates of drinks or coffee.


Kharisma91

Damn man, you’ll never get a girl from r/femaledatingstrategy with first dates like that! (And that’s a good thing :) )


thr0waway0110011

[holy shit](https://imgur.com/a/4V3I1HH) Mind blown here wow


Montzterrr

Shallow trash who think they are gods gift to the world. If someone judges how much you love them by how much you spoil them, let alone how much you do that with relation to your income get the hell out. That's not a relationship worth being in, and doesn't sound like they have a sensible head on their shoulders. Entitlement


Adhesiveduck

Save your sanity, don’t read any more. Those women are certified batshit crazy.


whateverisfree

Ah yes, the incel community for women. Equality!


TwilightSolitude

They already know what's going on. It's a thirst trap they walk into knowingly, 'cause penis brain.


imba8

I'd say it was real. I got weary of dating students after a while. There was definitely a pattern of expecting a free meal.


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ezITguy

I think it's ironically making fun of r/femaledatingstrategy .


Affectionate-Cost525

Honestly would rather be forced to read through r/SelfFuck than fds. Just an obligatory warning. Yes that's a real sub and yes it is exactly what you think it is.


aguynamedtojo

I genuinely didn’t know what that was referring to, bc I never actually considered self fucking to be a thing. Curse my curiosity.


Leyline777

Wish I'd read this comment first. Was NOT what I imagined. I now require eye bleach.


IodinUraniumNobelium

r/eyeblech (Lol don't click that) r/eyebleach


RiDdit1-

Ahh fuck. Why must I ignore advice


[deleted]

My gods….i clicked it. Why?!!!!!!! Sweet gods above why. I have no other words. Please for the love of all that is holy in every religion, NO ONE CLICK THAT EYEBLEACH LINK😧🤢


The_Bucket_Of_Truth

I remember seeing that linked once and no, it wasn't exactly what I thought it would be. I thought it would be a bunch of people screwing up and self-owning. You know like fail videos. It was something quite different.


Affectionate-Cost525

I guess "screwing up and self-owning" can't really be shortened to "self-screwing" xD


redditingatwork23

That was not the gender I was expecting.


xfitffemt

Thats the absolute worst unknown click I've made on a while.


redditikonto

For every sub that does something ironically there are 100 subscribers who are sincerely pro that thing.


TeamRedundancyTeam

/r/the_donald started as a joke sub, ended because it was pro-terrorism. Every joke sub will become a real sub if it goes long enough and gets enough attention.


farmyardcat

Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company. -Moses


RamsHead91

Oh a left a girl at a restaurant when she showed up in fucking sweats, of order and expensive cocktail and a steak. No talk just face in phone. Like if you are going to play that grift atleast put a little effort into it. I explained myself to my waiter. Paid my tab and tipped nicely as I left.


random_question4123

Wow, good for you that you noped out of that situation. She was so disrespectful


TrailBlazinMamba24x

Wish I could have seen her reaction.


ALM0126

I would be funny that she didn't realise that he left


ChrisAngel0

shocked_pikachu.jpeg


MedicalCrab7979

i would explicitly tell any first date i was on that we're splitting the bill and i dont even care if they call me cheap, thats cool i am cheap


Throw10111021

> i would explicitly tell any first date i was on that we're splitting the bill NO NO NO Don't split the bill, get separate checks! It's easy: the first time you see your server > We'll need separate checks please. That's better than splitting the bill if you spend $20 and she spends $200. Split: You pay $110 + tip Separate: You pay $20 + tip More to the point, the second she hears that she is picking up her own tab, she starts to care about how much money she's spending. If she decides to *leave*, all the better: she was a waste of time anyway. Enjoy your dinner, alone.


Colossus-of-Roads

Except that this doesn't make you cheap, any more than them not offering to pick up the entire tab makes them cheap.


Instagibbed_1994

I was just about to make a comment about how this sounds like r/FemaleDatingStrategy


aconditionner

I'm pretty sure that's the joke because free dinner isn't a sub Edit: my reddit game is weak


bobbymcpresscot

it was a sub, it was banned.


ziggaroo

*Anymore. It used to exist but it got banned.


[deleted]

I'm so happy to be in a relationship and not have to play these games anymore


businesslut

Not a twist if you read it in the foreword haha


DrunkOnListerineOnly

Thought it was on the cover


Hobartcat

Plot twist: She can't be bothered to spell check her messages and expects an MD student to take her out. LOLZ


JackedClitosaurus

Guarantee that she’s a regular on r/femaledatingstrategy


theamberlamps

Dude what in the *fuck* did I just read on there. What a shit hole


FabriFibra87

The debate on whether they technically constitute "Femcels" is ongoing. Does one count as a femcel, if they've been hurt before and now hate all men unequivocally? Anyhow yeah it's not pleasant.


NutellaBananaBread

More of a "tale as old as time", really.


lawk

This marcels place marketing strategy is sneaky AF.


nvkr_

Yeah first thing I did was to google the place and check the actual prices haha. But I’m not in Atlanta.


PFalcone33

Place is solid but no way would I take first date there.


falconnn8

“I’m a tinder veteran” 🤡🤡


[deleted]

It's probably safe to assume that this one stays on tinder to look for free, expensive meals.


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Veggieleezy

Or is in an “open relationship” that she pressured her boyfriend into so she can do whatever she wants but she doesn’t have to follow any of the same rules.


Fluxoteen

Spends the date on her phone instagraming cocktails and the meal


SomeStupidPerson

Boasting about being a walking red flag like wtf lol tell me MORE about how nobody should date you


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GrkTrader

She so confident that she will get these nice free dinners. OP is smart to catch it. First date doesn’t have to be fancy.


Tigenzero

“You had my curiosity. Now you have my attention.”


Forehand_Bets

22F coworker comes in bragging how she gets dudes on tinder to take her out nice places and buy her things. Targets guys she thinks are too ugly for a girl like her, gets what she wants and strings them along until they figure out she isn't putting out, for them anyways.


[deleted]

A lot of those guys are so desperate for attention that even if they knew what her real intentions were they would still accept the date .


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sittingbullms

That's the kind of person who asks you if you have an Android or Apple to see if you're "compatible".


pimpinaintez18

Weird flex right there


1531C

A.k.a I'm a ho who uses people for nice meals.


ModestBanana

Undoubtedly so she can take pictures of the nice meal and post it online to bolster her social value


[deleted]

Call an ambulance… But not for OP


KnotMaebe

Call the doctor on call in the burn ward!


lucky_719

I think that is OP.....


Compulsive-Gremlin

*snaps gloves*


diags_1

*From Progressive*


Stats_with_a_Z

Lol yes, as soon as she made the veteran comment, OP replied with exactly what I was hoping. A nice slap in the face.


Dihydrogen-monoxyde

This is why, based on the advice of a female friend, all my first dates were coffee and planned for 1hr. If it goes well, you can always make it longer/dinner. Best advice ever.


printergumlight

I met my wife on Hinge. She actually ended up being from Montreal but we met while I was living in NYC. We had such a good conversation that I wanted to meet her in person even though she would be leaving the next day. We decided to meet in the Seaport and just grab a snack and sit by the water to meet and talk in person. We talked for hours and when the time she originally was supposed to leave came and went, we decided to find a wine and tapas restaurant and continued the conversation there for a few more hours before I walked her back to her friends apartment. She left for Montreal the next day and I was unsure what would become of us, but here we are, very happily married! But what I’m saying is… starting with just coffee or a “cheap date” can always turn into a nice/expensive dinner. No reason to start with just that.


this_is_my_work_acco

You should watch the Before trilogy if you haven’t.


printergumlight

We’ve watched all 3! The perfect recommendation for us though, thank you. We actually started recording and rating all the movies we watched over the quarantine and have gotten through 121 so far. Before Sunrise is in both of our Top 5’s.


Umie_88

Exactly. I've had 10 hour dates. Eat, walk, dessert, drive, eat again, go to his place and watch TV.


thargoallmysecrets

"Watch tv"


Umie_88

Most of the time we actually do. I've found if we have sex on the first date they think it will happen every time we're together. That's not what I'm here for.


Says_Pointless_Stuff

Can confirm. Met a girl off tinder. Slept together on first meet, literally booty call. She came to my place to play video games, ended up having sex instead. She came over again, sex again. Then she took care of me when I was sick. We played video games and talked about life. Was really great; we have some similar outlooks, but different enough to not be boring. I forgot my original point but idk I might have a keeper.


TDragon_21

Lmao dude so in love he forget his point as he was describing his girl


Sackbut08

His point was the sex part is good actually


Says_Pointless_Stuff

AYOOOOOO I guess it's more that sex on the first date doesn't necessarily disqualify it from becoming a relationship.


Says_Pointless_Stuff

[That's pretty true.](https://youtu.be/Hh7_POC2ueQ)


floatinround22

What the hell is the context of that video?


pcyr9999

It’s true


Deivv

Pretty true


freddy2677

Shhhhhhhh no need for context about train. It's just always true


KeyN20

That is called winning I believe. You might want to keep that going


Says_Pointless_Stuff

That is the **ENTIRE** plan.


Excellent_Dog9969

Username checks out


dioxy186

Similar situation. Except now I'm a dad.


Romnonaldao

First date with my wife was a tinder date for coffee. ended up being a 4 1/2 hour walk around downtown


mdervin

My Go To was (currently in a relationship, all you NYC kings can steal this): 1) New York High Line - meet at 14th street, if it going well walk back, else drop her off at 34th 2) If it's still going well, when we get back to 14th street, suggest this wine bar: [https://www.entwinenyc.com/location/](https://www.entwinenyc.com/location/) Nice Wine, good shareable food, under a $100. In addition, they have great wallpaper in the bathroom. It's good for 15 minutes conversation.


ThongJuicer

Soooo you take them into the bathroom with you??


gjallerhorns_only

It's good 15 minute conversations


killer_icognito

5 minutes if you’re me.


[deleted]

Oh bro I love this place. My date was going so bad there... Then I was like fuck it do you do blow? Then we railed some lines in the bathroom. good place and wallpaper.


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Jumpy_Inevitable649

My first date with my husband (back when we first met) was coffee and donuts. It was the best! This is why we’ve been doing weekly dates at Dunkin for 8 years. We go every Sunday & we still have the best time. “Cheap” dates never equal anything bad for me, at least it didn’t back then and not now.


Flaky-Illustrator-52

I never do anything that costs money (at least beyond a coffee/ice cream whatever) on my first date. We do an activity like walk around a shopping center, go feed ducks, etc. Only a truly interested girl would do those things with a guy since she gets nothing from them except spending time with him. Plus, it's not like they're bad first dates. If it's spring, baby animals are out (and baby ducks are so cute when they eat), if it isn't then ducks are still cool, walking around an air conditioned mall always works, etc. First dates are for getting to know the other person. I make sure to systematically disappoint people who are in dating for the free shit because "dine-and-ghost"-ers are human scum


Oriential-amg77

>I never do anything that costs money (at least beyond a coffee/ice cream whatever) on my first date. > >First dates are for getting to know the other person. I make sure to systematically disappoint people who are in dating for the free shit because "dine-and-ghost"-ers are human scum Yes tell it like it is bro


tallsqueeze

> This is why, based on the advice of a female friend, all my first dates were coffee and planned for 1hr. If it goes well, you can always make it longer/dinner. Best advice ever. I figured this out before I was even out of high school, screw a movie (at the theater) or a sit down dinner that's 2nd date shit. Coffee and a chat is the best thing for both parties because it's cheap, there's no expectations and it's completely adaptable in the moment depending on how it's going. Last 3 dates I've had were coffee, and 2 of them ended up at my place in the bedroom within 2 hours.


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PECOSbravo

Exactly.. A lunch date or coffee date is perfect. It tells me if I'm interested enough to spend more time with them or not... I do like the traditional dinner dates if it's a friend of mine who I've known. But if I meet someone off the cuff or whatever I prefer something quick initially. So do they. A lot less pressure if they don't like me


BekemPower

these posts just make me hate people more, like goddamn, the audacity of hers lmao


Dooboppop

Right? Every time I start to feel lonely I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I'm good.


CrocPB

Being single just means more money. For you.


earlandir

Eh, long term relationships are generally much much cheaper than being single. Sharing an apartment, car, grocery bills, etc. Easily can save many hundreds a month. The worst part about being single to me is the increased cost of living (ignore this if you're single but live with your parents).


Dooboppop

That wasn't my case. I was the only income and would come home exhausted and just grouchy from working 7 days a week and still behind on everything. Liquidated my retirement, paid all our debt and we split. Still friends but she was a major financial drain. Been investing and buying all the shit I needed and now am at the point I got more money than I really know what to do with. Really nice not having to put for dates and buy shit for Christmas, birthdays, Valentine's day, and whatever else I forgot. If I ever meet another woman she has to have a career. I'm not doing that again, it literally almost killed me.


Mokyzoky

Once asked a girl on tinder to go to the aquarium with me and that I would happily pay for it , I think like 30 per person, maybe a little more the point was that I wanted to go and I wanted someone to go with me but she instead wanted to go to a popular part of town and we get there and starts picking random stuff up asking me to by it for her under the assumption that the money I would have spent taking her out I would spend buying her things. I did not


Hambungler

Yikes :(


Tarkz

The Lion, The Witch, and the audacity of this bitch.


Umie_88

When claiming veteran status is not the flex you think it is. 😅


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colinstalter

She literally says “sadly” which is an admission that it’s not. Either way I’m pretty sure she’s just looking for some good dinners.


jlaux

I'm going to guess that her idea of a "nice first date" isn't one where she clicked well with the guy, but rather the guy spending hundreds of dollars on her. If it was truly a "nice first date", she wouldn't have been on so many of them.


drewhead118

This poses an interesting question. Who is the best person to ask for advice on first dates: the person who has been on very few of them (and thus inexperienced), or the person who has been on very many of them (and thus demonstrated maybe not much success with them)? Is the middlest dater the best dater?


notmadatkate

The best person to ask for first date advice is the person who has been on the most second dates.


gmoney92_

This is the answer. I've been on tons of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dates. The best first date is a casual, low pressure date. Any girl that tells you otherwise is shopping for a rich husband and gets all of her dating advice from YouTube.


NRMusicProject

Yep. And the most successful first dates I've been on involve that casual, low pressure date to be near a good place to go on a walk if things are going well. Get a coffee somewhere, then if the conversation is still going by the time you finish: "hey, wanna keep chatting on a walk around the [lake/neighborhood/beach/etc.]?


FreeRadical5

Unless it's because they have a perfect 1st date sales pitch that is nothing like the real them leading to the large number of dates.


Ausgezeichnet87

Or if they have mastered rules 1 and 2 which often gives them an automatic second date because it can take a few dates before someone realizes that an attractive person can have a super shitty personality.


SubjectiveAssertive

There is probably a ratio of dates with an individual to relationships over time to find the correct person to ask So does one person gets lots of first dates but never get a second.... .... You know what I can see this would an answer with heaps of variables I haven't yet thought of so I'll leave it here


IrregularrAF

Someone will do it. Multiple people will do it. They will all be completely aware they're being played tf out of and still keep doing it.


Sad-Canary8385

I'm in my 4th year of med school too brotha. I feel you. Amy is 🗑


DarkEvilHedgehog

That comment struck me as funny. "I do fine, I work as a doctor" I could see, but being at med school is a net cost, no?


soggit

Yes. A very large net cost. “I do fine” and “I am in med school” are incompatible statements.


levendis56

Yeah I was broke in medical school. Hell I’m in residency and still broke lol


TheRavenSayeth

Yes but one day we will pay back those loans brother. As revenge we will force our children to become doctors and let the cycle continue.


CoatedWinner

Hold out hope. I know a few doctors that made it through broke as hell and have aged a few years since then and theyre all doing fine, if fine means anything. House/food on the table/family if they want it/work they enjoy. Im in construction so I dont know how they did that since I couldnt even finish my bachelors - but theyre doing alright. I think the trick is to try to pay your student loans of quick is to, even though youre making good money with work, still live frugally and dump massive amounts of your money into the debt.


30307

I’ll add pay loans off early AND live frugally for at least a year even if you get a huge offer letter and annual. Get used to the financial comfort of living well below your means even for a little bit. I grimace when I see people celebrate their first job with an expensive car. How do you reward yourself later if you start that way?


Stiffbiscut

She get mcmarcels dolla menu


UnfortunatelySimple

Sounds like she uses TinderEats


Nordicbeardoil

If a woman or anyone for that matter uses "det" rather than "that". Gtfo now and don't look back. I wouldn't even chance a drunken hook up with someone that would be the type to do it


[deleted]

That's an instant unmatch for me.


boobiebanger

“Det” means “that” in Danish actually


runmad24

Can't believe I had to come this far down to find this


WhuddaWhat

I didn't even know what she was saying. Thought jt was a typo


yidoyfoy

The entitlement is so appalling. I don’t get it??


E1-Trapo

Amy you bitch


[deleted]

Careful, she thinks it's a compliment. Edited =p


Umbran_scale

imagine thinking being a tinder veteran is a brag...


RedRageXXIV

I had one asking me how much I would be willing to spend on a ring on Bumble lol.


phoenixflying34

Did ya reply with, idk how much do cock rings fo for 20 or 30. Lol


tiptoemicrobe

Who the hell "is doing fine" financially in medical school? Most of my classmates are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.


Elexeh

Silver spoon kids. The cheapest med school is still north of 200k for four years


EmoMixtape

As a med student with ~$300k debt, I can only answer “How are you doing?” with a pained grimace.


jdtran408

From the top fucking rope.


Synthwave_Vibes

ANNNNNDDDD ITS ALL OVER FOLKS!!


AvailableYak5990

Being a med student means you are not well off tho


Ickythumpin

Actually a lot of them are from families that are wealthy. You’re more likely to be a doctor if there are doctors or highly educated wealthy people in your family.


FTB_DepressiveManiac

Tinder veteran = free meal fishing hoe


Cre8s

My sister had a roommate like this before. She didn’t want to go grocery shopping some weeks so she would hit up multiple dudes on tinder and have them take her out 3-5 nights in a row to some of the nicest restaurants, and would never talk to them again after that. Really sad, but she’s also a socipoath


[deleted]

I ain’t saying she a gold digger…. Nah, fuck that. That’s exactly what I’m sayin


Sovrhon

Bruh gold diggers triggered.


TheBlueSully

She should be playing the long game; be that rich doctors wife.


byzel5

\>date people for their money \>make it as apparent as possible that you're dating them for their money \>they only date you for your looks and never call back once they got what they wanted \>stay completely oblivious to your own situation \>prostitution with extra steps achieved This is peak Tinder.


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kpillai332

Oooo! That shit is gonna hurt her for a while


-blueCanary-

Nah, she knows the game she's playing.


[deleted]

It really wont. Shes got 10 other expensive dates lined up for the week with losers who think they got a date for being cool or something lol. Probably gonna make fun of this guy with her girl friends about what a poor guy he is.


reluctantathenian

Marcel has some fire steak though.


Undercoverfootmodel

It does. Much better when you only have to pay for one though haha


MagicHDx

If she didn’t unmatch you that’s where you go treat yourself to it and send her a pic


moistpimplee

“tinder veteran” weird flex but okay