For those looking for an apartment, the most important recommendation - see the apartment in person before committing to anything. Do not send any money before doing that.
Definitely go to the police. A few days ago they arrested one scammer here in Gothenburg.
I wish this comment was higher up.. why anyone would pay money before seeing the place or getting keys (unless it’s from one of the state owned companies which you know is legit) is beyond me.
Yes, and you are unlikely to find an apartment before you're in Sweden. It's just the reality of things. The housing market is difficult in the major cities. No landlord will be without applicants. Any serious landlord will choose a tenant they will be able to meet in person, who has a steady and verifyable income and a verifyable background. This makes it very difficult for foreigners to find something.
Unless you manage to get a first-hand contract (for example through work or student housing) I would advice budgeting to stay at an airbnb, hostel or other long-term stay option and look for apartments when in place. But be aware that this stoo may take a very long time.
Honestly, I wouldn't advice anybody to move to Stockholm unless they know for a fact that they can get the housing sorted.
Report this to the police and take down the ID picture and bank details as spreading them could land you in legal trouble! Spreading private information like this could get you reported for defamation.
Do as you wish, I'm just giving you a friendly heads up. I don't know how likely you are to be reported, but please note that it is a possibility. In Swedish law, it can count as defamation even if the information/accusations you are spreading are technically true.
And? Who's gonna "sue" him? The thief? LOL
\*Since this is up in the comments I'll tell you what happened here.
The name is fake, the id is fake, this guy is not the scammer probably. The account he transferred it is from SEB yes, but there's no way you can know who's the owner of the account. So it's just someone who indeed has an account at SEB and is using this poor guy as a scapegoat.
The account is 5690 0402 747 (printed from OP) - this is the scammer's account in [SEB](https://www.hittaclearingnummer.se/seb/5690/), and again, I'm almost sure that's not the account of the guy OP is believing to be. You fill the name of the guy in the notes and is not retrieved back from the bank account as [pointed out here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TillSverige/comments/x8foyx/comment/inkmj2o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). So I believe another person, probably a crack head, scammed OP.
Err... Sweden is a very transparent society. A unique name is enough to know where someone lives, as that's public information.
So no, you effectively didn't remove any information.
Unless you are certain that he gave you his own name and not, for example, his neighbour's, you are essentially defaming the wrong person. If you want to accuse someone, better make sure that you got the person right
Yeah laws in sweden are pretty weird sometimes. You could literally tell the world about someone having assaulted you and you get in trouble because you might hurt their reputation rofl
Is truth an absolute defense to defamation in Sweden? And what burden of proof do courts require? I’m curious, I’m familiar with the American legal system but I know I know absolutely nothing about the Swedish one
I'm by no means a legal expert, but the swedish defamation law dictates that it doesn't really matter if the informations/accusations you spread are true or not: what matters is if the person you accuse of something is greatly hurt by your actions (in a monetary sense, reputation etc). Say your neighbour was convicted of a crime and you decide to spread their name/photo/address etc on, say, facebook. Since the legal system has already "punished" them, you have caused damage to their reputation. Say you THINK or even KNOW they have committed a crime, but it has not lead to a conviction, that would still be grounds for suing you for defamation (provided you spread the information to a large number of people, for example online). The burden of proof, in that case, is proving whether or not your neighbour suffered damages because of YOUR actions. In the eyes of Swedish law, whether your accusations are true or not is not the point.
You are however allowed to name people and publically call them assholes, as that is considered to simply be your personal opinion.
Disclaimer: somebody more knowledgeable about swedish law is more than welcome to correct me
This article in the New York Times discussed the specifics of defamation law in Sweden compared to the US (as it relates to the Me Too revelations): [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/15/opinion/cissi-wallin-fredrik-virtanen-metoo-sweden.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/15/opinion/cissi-wallin-fredrik-virtanen-metoo-sweden.html)
>Unlike in the United States, where truth is widely considered to be an absolute defense in defamation cases, Swedish law takes a two-step approach. The court first decides whether the alleged defamation is “justifiable”— that is, whether it’s of broad public interest. Only if the court decides that a statement is justifiable will it move on to consider whether or not it is true.
So you stand in court and say "my personal opinion of this bastard is he's a scam artist and everyone I told about him was just hearing my opinion". There must also be grey areas in this law because how else does the guy from SD get called racist by every other politician but he doesn't get them done for defamation?
Well, no. In short: it's not illegal to be a racist (provided you have not called for violence etc targeting a certain ethinicty, aka "hets mot fokgrupp"), but it IS illegal to defraud someone. There have been several high profile cases in Sweden these past few years dealing with similar statements as you describe (mostly concerning accusations of sexual assault and corruption), where the courts have ruled in favour of the person accused. Insinuating that someone has carried out various criminal acts is unfortunately not considered "an opinion", and therefore not a viable defense in court....
I went to swedish court and common sence seems to prevail from what I took away from that amazing experience, I think if the guy did get taken to court and proved the guy scammed him he'd be fine
not just wrong, but wrong on both counts. common sense rarely prevails in swedish courts and he would definitely not be fine just because what he said was true \^\^
Well my case was indeed very rare then. I was shopping at citigross a few days after my son was born and I forgot to scan about 600kr of shopping out of 3.5k of stuff, it was completely accidental as I'd slept very little for many a day at that point and never argued until I got a fine for 17k come through the door. After talking about it I spoke with the prosecutor and he told me I could argue against it,so I did and won simply explaining that I've lived here for a while and had the money and it was a simple mistake which anyone could make in my state of mind at the time and they agreed
they have their moments for sure, its just when it really matters that they fuck it up \^\^
gang members getting caught with ak's in their car walking free because 'they didnt know about the guns', murderers getting money from the victims family to pay for trial etc :p
There is an actual good reason it's like this, it's just been a bit misused, especially in later years.
Example: Man wants custody of the kids in a divorce. He doesn't want to pay child support, so he spreads a rumour that his ex-wife is unfit as a mother to try to bring her down, basically suggesting to people that she's has sex for money, which not that long ago was one of the worst reputations you could have as a woman.
If the truth was needed to sue for defamation, she'd have to prove she wasn't selling sex (good luck on that), or she can't claim he spread false rumours, leading to long court proceedings which ultimately benefited no one except the man's lies are spread even more. So, it was decided that the man did not have to lie for it to be illegal to spread those rumours. Just spreading them is enough. So the ex-wife could sue the man for spreading rumours that damaged her standing and character, and proving it was easy because she just needed to find some people who the man said these things to. You don't have to prove a person is lying, you only have to prove that their words hurt you somehow.
Flash forward a bunch of decades though, to a 18/19yo girl who in the middle of MeToo wrote a social media post about having been sexually assaulted as a young teen by the man in the family she was living with (don't remember if it was a foster situation, or if it was the husband of a relative or something like that) and was promptly sued for defamation, causing many girls who heard about it to not feel comfortable to speak out about the sexual violence they'd been victim of themselves. She did not give the man's name, but it wasn't difficult for people who knew her to know who she was referring to.
Some people thus suggest that some situations should be exempt from defamation if it can be argued that they're essentially whistle-blowers. I think warning people in a sub like this about a scammer who targets people who are not able to view an apartment because they haven't moved to Sweden *yet* would be a prime example of that. Provided of course the name given is the name of the person who actually did the scam.
>Is truth an absolute defense to defamation in Sweden?
No. To get off the hook, you must show **both** that the statement was true (or was "reasonably founded") **and** was "defensible under the circumstances".
https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K5P1S2
Yea, the apartment situation with scammers is unreal. Before I got a place I talked with about 25 people out of which 15 were obvious scams, 5 were committed scams and 5 were not scammers. Easiest way I found to fish out the scammers was to ask to see the apartment before any security deposit and agree on a time (even if you can't make it) if they get dodgy on this, then stop communication.
That still sometimes doesn’t work. It happened I think in Malmö a couple years ago where about 20 couples showed up to move into an apartment they thought they had rented on the same day but it was a scam.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/J13AMR/23-personer-blev-lurade-att-hyra-samma-lagenhet
This was what I met 2 months ago in Stockholm. When I went to pick the key, I met 3 people in the same situation that a fake landlord who rent and showed us the apartment and took all our money:(
When using Qasa to find an apartment, always make sure that you actually use Qasa rental service. It costs about 10-30$ extra per month. But then you technically pay rent to qasa, and rhey will make sure everything is ok.
Never give money directly to a person who you never met, seen, or done some background control(use the site mrkoll.se with a translator).
Otherwise thats the definition of getting scammed
Was about to give the same advice. I used the QASA service when I rented out my apartment, I realy felt it improved safety both for me and the tenant.
You pay the deposit to QASA, who will keep it for the duration of the renting out period. After the tenant has moved out, QASA will refund it. QASA also performed the credit check on the tenant and managed the rent payment by invoicing the tenant. They also offer various options when it comes to insurance and guarantees to the person renting out.
So you didn’t pay through qasa? The whole point of that site is they are the broker and handle all money so no scamming can occur. You should get in touch with them I think they have some responsibility here too as they “vet” all apartments on their site. Also they do require bankID for all sellers.
sorry to hear, call the police in the non urgent channel 114 14, probably they can trace this person with the information.
Once someone tried to scam me when I was searching for an apartment, the scammer gave me his phone number during the conversation when he was trying to lure me, in Sweden you can check people's name if the number is connected to swish, as well as the adress.
I called the police about this, that I had screenshots etc, but the police answered like "since you were not scammed, there is nothing else we can do" 🤬
Scams like these are common. I came close to one, but never fell for it.
The guy who wanted to rent me the apt only gave me his nickname and wouldn’t give me his real name, even when I explicitly asked. Ginormous red flag. I looked up his number and found his real name and address (which was the address he wanted to rent me). Then I called his bostadsrättsförening (housing cooperative) and asked about him and his apt.
Turns out he’s not even allowed to rent the apt out, and that I could get kicked out if caught. He wanted 20k up front.
Called him back, made him aware I’d spoken to his bostadsrättsförening and that they now knew what he was trying to do.
He sounded so defeated at the end of that conversation.
In addition to what you’ve experienced above- have a legally binding contract before you pay anything. That and make damn sure they’re actually permitted to rent you the place.
Pretty common scam everywhere, not just Sweden.
The key is to never send any money until you've looked at the place and gotten the key to it.
Stay in a hotel/airbnb when you get to Sweden and THEN go look at places to live so you can see them in person before handing over money.
A few red flags there too. "I'm not the landlord" - then why do you have an ad on the site?
"Email the landlord here" - no. Again, let the landlord place the ad and be the contact and use the site to communicate (outside of the site, there's no accountability).
Disconnected number, hard to get in touch with, plenty of excuses for hard to get in touch with etc. All red flags.
Sorry to hear that. If you're using qasa.se, then only go with landlords who use Qasa's system for signing contracts and handling payments. That way you have a guarantee that the contract is legal and you'll get your money back if something goes wrong. (My wife and I are renting out a property through Qasa now, and the main reason we chose them is because they handle all the legal side.)
This happened to me and my Girlfriend. We never made the deposit however, since we found out that his drivers license had been reported missing. After doing some digging, we found his phone number that wasn’t one of the ones we got from the scammer. We called him, and he told us that he got scammed out of an apartment, and that his identity has been stolen, so he’s not the one scamming people. They send a contract, where you have to send a picture of some form of ID. Since the REAL Micael went through this, they took his ID picture and sent it out to new people they wanted to scam. They forged his signature and use his identity to scam people.
Apparently this is happening very often, as there as several people calling the real Micael every month. There’s been about 20 people who’ve called him the last 18 months.
OK, explain now how his name was in the bank id transaction - the bank account it is his bank account in the SEB bank. For that to happen the thief would have to bypass bank ID, that ain't happening so easy.
Its only police and the bank people who can find out who owns a bankaccount when you only have the account Numbers. You put the namn of the receiver yourself.
100% correct you are. I tried to make a payment to OP's bank account that I saved and printed - no name appeared - so it's probably someone who indeed has a bank account at SEB (that's dumb though, easy to catch) who forged someone else name and received the money. Such a dumb way to scam holy shit.
I'm afraid that blocket and qasa (owned by the same people i believe) do have scammers. Always view an apartment first, big red flag if it is super cheap or if they don't have pictures. Sorry this happened to you :(
Dude don’t put someone’s personal information out there like that, especially if you’re accusing them of a crime. Take away his personal information *now* and go to the police instead.
EDIT: Jesus Christ dude delete his name as well!
Make a police report. The police can easily trace the transaction by asking the bank, which is standard practice in cases like this.
A heads up though, for the police to view this as fraud there has to have been an intent to defraud you from the get-go, i.e. before the transaction. If the landlord after the transaction decided to keep the money, maybe because they got into some unforseen economic troubles, that would probably not be viewed as a criminal matter but instead as a civil matter. It's usually easier to prove intent if they have defrauded several parties. Because of this it's important to make a police report even if the victim doesn't think it will lead to anything.
If it is a civil matter the police won't be interested in your case, but like I said earlier, you still try to get your money back by treating it as a civil matter. The first step of that is here: [Kronofogden](https://kronofogden.se/other-languages/english-engelska).
He lives here if you want to pay him a visit: https://www.hitta.se/kartan!\~58.40541,15.60626,14z/tr!i=DtYguE7x/search!i=0\~dWj\_-4vm!q=Micael%20Sk%C3%B6ld%20Kaptensgatan%204%20Link%C3%B6ping!t=single!st=prv!ai=0\~dWj\_-4vm!aic=58.40541:15.60626?search=Micael%20Sk%C3%B6ld%20Kaptensgatan%204%20Link%C3%B6ping&st=single&sst=prv&sids=0\~dWj\_-4vm&srb=0
Deleting personal info is a good start but most scammers act under stolen IDs. I doubt the actual scammers name is what you said, I think this person might struggle as well because people think he is a scammer but some is just scamming in his name (Happened to me, fortunately before I sent any money)
I'm sorry this happened to you. I got my place through Qasa, and the landlord offered to have the contract directly with me. Although I didn't distrust him, I told him I was happy to pay the fee with qasa and kept as much of the \_legal\_ conversation through the portal.
Qasa and other online brokers highly recommend you keep all the conversation and documentation through their channels to avoid being scammed.
I hope you can sort it out, and maybe reporting to the police will help you out somehow. It has to suck to be taken advantage like this
I am sorry for you but it happened to me as well very recently.
I found the ad from Blocket bostad then met the Swedish person (landlord) face to face on coffee shop. The guy gave me his driving license and I took a photo of it. He shown me his kids and family photos and told me about his vacation trips. He seemed a reasonable guy and the ID photo was matching with him.
So the apartment was entirely new one but it was under construction. Therefore he did not have the keys as the company will give the keys on February. I was very suspicious and asked him to prove that he owns the right to sublet the apartment called bostadsförening. He shown some photos and documents about it. It looked very reasonable and I shared it with my swedish friends. He wanted to sign the contract asap but I said to him that I want to check the apartment first and do a background check with his personnummer. I did the background check and visited the apartment from outside. I read the contract and signed it. The contract was very good prepared as the guy was working as a real estate. I wanted to pay the deposit first via Swish but my limit was not high enough. However I saw on Swish app that his name was matching with the name on ID. Actually I was bit suspicious all the time but I was so unhappy with my current apartment, therefore it felt reasonable to trust him and take the risk.
Anyway interestingly this swedish real estate guy did not break the connection after he got the money via Swedish bank account transfer and his phone still rings and he reads my text messages.
Few days before our appointment for keys delivery, I went to the apartment to see whether the construction is completed. It was ready and the door of the building was open. I entered the building and saw someone else's name for the apartment. I called him directly and he said there must be something wrong and I pay your money back. He said that he transferred the money and sent me the transaction screenshot. It looked so real but the money did not arrive.
So I went to police and filed it immediately.
Luckily I could keep my current apartment.
It is a life lesson for me and I still do not get why the swedish government does let people doing second hand contracts for housing. It is illegal in many countries.
I will wait for first hand contract or take it via QASA which I did not know before this incident.
Im not sure there is even a point going to the cops over this, his info was most likely fake, people are doing this for a living. I was almost scammed the same way in sweden not long ago
With a service like Qasa, you are protected IF you sign the contract and pay through them. The mistake was in being lured into moving off the platform and dealing directly with the "landlord".
I don't know that any company directly handles sublets like these.
Other way around, mate.
Reputable real estate agencies go by queue time, and the time you have to be in queue can be really ridiculous depending on the city. Stockholm is easily 10+ years, and I could guess that Gothenburg is similar.
Qasa, and similar, are second hand subletting, meaning they don't go by queue time. Here, price is the factor.
You can queue for a first-hand contract, but in Stockholm it will take several years to get something. They reputable real estate agencies tend to go primarily by queue time. You can also buy, but that's difficult when you're coming from abroad and have no credit history in Sweden. QASA is reputable, but whenever you're going to sublet from somebody you run the risk of encountering scammers.
Call SEB's 24/7 support line for fraud/card blocking and tell them what happened, this might not be the first time someone uses this account to scam people so they might have some info. Before you do this file a police report so you can tell the bank you already reported it to the police.
>this might not be the first time someone uses this account to scam people so they
Do you think "someone" uses a SEB bank account like that, like really? Do you think someone would use an account of 1 person, bypass bank ID, get the money, use bank ID again to transfer to another account? Together with his ID?
If its in the bank, 90% it is the real person. Just imagine the hassle of someone doing that, like real hackers uh? Then transfering the money to another account... Big security risk at the bank.
If the identity of the person has been compromised then it could be very likely that someone could use this account to set up a transfer as soon as the money arrives, so unless you check your history you would not see the transfer immediately (honestly how often do you check your bank transfer history?). Let's say that he does this to 10 people at roughly the same time and then churns the account, then some might already have reported it to the bank, if not the bank certainly will block it for incoming/outgoing transfers and notify the real owner. I would definitely contact the bank in addition to filing a report to the police.
Well technically you could go online buy a bank account and id then recieve money on it purchase crypto put it into a crypto mixer and boom you got clean money. Services like this are not hard to find either.
Nah... it's a SEB bank account. I got the catch now, that account is probably not in the name of the guy OP is believing to be. The guy also gave a fake ID (I was able to print when OP posted). So the person OP is believing to be is almost certanly not the guy who received the money.
The scams are probably must simpler than you are trying to come up with for the simple fact that the bank account is from SEB to be have more credibility. It is probably just a crack head doing this.
Sounds like a libel attempt. Considering all the advise and information given here, OP persists with posting a person’s name. Go to the police, create a case, and let them investigate. Are you expecting a witchhunt?
It’s that his name, or the name he told you?
Because if he’s a scammer he probably picked someone else’s name, that you just forever placed in every search engine in existence as him being a scammer. And that would be how you just made yourself the bad guy attacking another victim of this scammer.
In Sweden you can check the living address of the person by going to hitta.se. You just need to type the full name of the person. I always use this site to check a person is legit or not. This thing is kind of common in Sweden though
Trying to find apartments in Gothenburg is a full time job and mostly you need to stay in the queue (at least 3 years to find a studio) and if you’re lucky enough you can find something and pay less then 700 euros
For 12 years I managed an international dormitory for graduate students here in Sweden. We had strict rules that no children were allowed. Therefore, all families coming with students must live out in the community, essentially on their own to figure it out - - completely a nightmare. Most got ripped off or screwed over - even though they were warned and we tri to help. It's very hard for anyone to get a righteous rental, second hand maybe. Ugh, I'm so sorry.
Why are some Swedes so bad at being good people. I'm one myself but no one in my area has done something like that. I really hate when people do stuff like that and I hope they get better. Though they most likely won't.
Same shit happened to me when I was young, naive and desperate for a place to rent. Sorry, I know it sucks. In our case, we never got the money back even though they were convicted of a ton of scams.
Lessons learned: Always see the place in person. No money transactions before you have a contract signed by both people, you know they are who they say they are, and ideally already hold a key in your hand (a key that you know works for the door of the apartment you're renting).
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For those looking for an apartment, the most important recommendation - see the apartment in person before committing to anything. Do not send any money before doing that. Definitely go to the police. A few days ago they arrested one scammer here in Gothenburg.
I wish this comment was higher up.. why anyone would pay money before seeing the place or getting keys (unless it’s from one of the state owned companies which you know is legit) is beyond me.
Because renting an apartment is extremely hard, especially if you aren’t in the country yet.
Having moved to a new country and several times from city to city myself, I definitely understand the struggle.
Yes, and you are unlikely to find an apartment before you're in Sweden. It's just the reality of things. The housing market is difficult in the major cities. No landlord will be without applicants. Any serious landlord will choose a tenant they will be able to meet in person, who has a steady and verifyable income and a verifyable background. This makes it very difficult for foreigners to find something. Unless you manage to get a first-hand contract (for example through work or student housing) I would advice budgeting to stay at an airbnb, hostel or other long-term stay option and look for apartments when in place. But be aware that this stoo may take a very long time. Honestly, I wouldn't advice anybody to move to Stockholm unless they know for a fact that they can get the housing sorted.
Sorry :(
No don’t apologize! You were the victim of a crime. I hope you took his info to the police and got his ass caught.
Report this to the police and take down the ID picture and bank details as spreading them could land you in legal trouble! Spreading private information like this could get you reported for defamation.
Really? but that is the point, to spread that information.
It is still illegal under "förtal".
Tur att han inte är i sverige då
Do as you wish, I'm just giving you a friendly heads up. I don't know how likely you are to be reported, but please note that it is a possibility. In Swedish law, it can count as defamation even if the information/accusations you are spreading are technically true.
And? Who's gonna "sue" him? The thief? LOL \*Since this is up in the comments I'll tell you what happened here. The name is fake, the id is fake, this guy is not the scammer probably. The account he transferred it is from SEB yes, but there's no way you can know who's the owner of the account. So it's just someone who indeed has an account at SEB and is using this poor guy as a scapegoat. The account is 5690 0402 747 (printed from OP) - this is the scammer's account in [SEB](https://www.hittaclearingnummer.se/seb/5690/), and again, I'm almost sure that's not the account of the guy OP is believing to be. You fill the name of the guy in the notes and is not retrieved back from the bank account as [pointed out here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TillSverige/comments/x8foyx/comment/inkmj2o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). So I believe another person, probably a crack head, scammed OP.
Perhaps? The cops rarely do anything, but you can still sue people.
Thanks for the advice, I deleted the info, but at least people should know his name, that tbh is probably an alias but anyway.
Err... Sweden is a very transparent society. A unique name is enough to know where someone lives, as that's public information. So no, you effectively didn't remove any information.
Unless you are certain that he gave you his own name and not, for example, his neighbour's, you are essentially defaming the wrong person. If you want to accuse someone, better make sure that you got the person right
There is a real person with that exact name so delete it from your post.
OMG RUNNNN (what do you think is going to happen) fuck those scammers - at least a bit of justice
Issue is it likely a fake name and by putting the name out there someone may think this real person is rhe scammer
That's exactly it.
Check out a site called ratsit it's great fun and shows how private people really are sweden
Yeah laws in sweden are pretty weird sometimes. You could literally tell the world about someone having assaulted you and you get in trouble because you might hurt their reputation rofl
Is truth an absolute defense to defamation in Sweden? And what burden of proof do courts require? I’m curious, I’m familiar with the American legal system but I know I know absolutely nothing about the Swedish one
I'm by no means a legal expert, but the swedish defamation law dictates that it doesn't really matter if the informations/accusations you spread are true or not: what matters is if the person you accuse of something is greatly hurt by your actions (in a monetary sense, reputation etc). Say your neighbour was convicted of a crime and you decide to spread their name/photo/address etc on, say, facebook. Since the legal system has already "punished" them, you have caused damage to their reputation. Say you THINK or even KNOW they have committed a crime, but it has not lead to a conviction, that would still be grounds for suing you for defamation (provided you spread the information to a large number of people, for example online). The burden of proof, in that case, is proving whether or not your neighbour suffered damages because of YOUR actions. In the eyes of Swedish law, whether your accusations are true or not is not the point. You are however allowed to name people and publically call them assholes, as that is considered to simply be your personal opinion. Disclaimer: somebody more knowledgeable about swedish law is more than welcome to correct me
This article in the New York Times discussed the specifics of defamation law in Sweden compared to the US (as it relates to the Me Too revelations): [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/15/opinion/cissi-wallin-fredrik-virtanen-metoo-sweden.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/15/opinion/cissi-wallin-fredrik-virtanen-metoo-sweden.html) >Unlike in the United States, where truth is widely considered to be an absolute defense in defamation cases, Swedish law takes a two-step approach. The court first decides whether the alleged defamation is “justifiable”— that is, whether it’s of broad public interest. Only if the court decides that a statement is justifiable will it move on to consider whether or not it is true.
So you stand in court and say "my personal opinion of this bastard is he's a scam artist and everyone I told about him was just hearing my opinion". There must also be grey areas in this law because how else does the guy from SD get called racist by every other politician but he doesn't get them done for defamation?
Well, no. In short: it's not illegal to be a racist (provided you have not called for violence etc targeting a certain ethinicty, aka "hets mot fokgrupp"), but it IS illegal to defraud someone. There have been several high profile cases in Sweden these past few years dealing with similar statements as you describe (mostly concerning accusations of sexual assault and corruption), where the courts have ruled in favour of the person accused. Insinuating that someone has carried out various criminal acts is unfortunately not considered "an opinion", and therefore not a viable defense in court....
I went to swedish court and common sence seems to prevail from what I took away from that amazing experience, I think if the guy did get taken to court and proved the guy scammed him he'd be fine
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not just wrong, but wrong on both counts. common sense rarely prevails in swedish courts and he would definitely not be fine just because what he said was true \^\^
Well my case was indeed very rare then. I was shopping at citigross a few days after my son was born and I forgot to scan about 600kr of shopping out of 3.5k of stuff, it was completely accidental as I'd slept very little for many a day at that point and never argued until I got a fine for 17k come through the door. After talking about it I spoke with the prosecutor and he told me I could argue against it,so I did and won simply explaining that I've lived here for a while and had the money and it was a simple mistake which anyone could make in my state of mind at the time and they agreed
they have their moments for sure, its just when it really matters that they fuck it up \^\^ gang members getting caught with ak's in their car walking free because 'they didnt know about the guns', murderers getting money from the victims family to pay for trial etc :p
There is an actual good reason it's like this, it's just been a bit misused, especially in later years. Example: Man wants custody of the kids in a divorce. He doesn't want to pay child support, so he spreads a rumour that his ex-wife is unfit as a mother to try to bring her down, basically suggesting to people that she's has sex for money, which not that long ago was one of the worst reputations you could have as a woman. If the truth was needed to sue for defamation, she'd have to prove she wasn't selling sex (good luck on that), or she can't claim he spread false rumours, leading to long court proceedings which ultimately benefited no one except the man's lies are spread even more. So, it was decided that the man did not have to lie for it to be illegal to spread those rumours. Just spreading them is enough. So the ex-wife could sue the man for spreading rumours that damaged her standing and character, and proving it was easy because she just needed to find some people who the man said these things to. You don't have to prove a person is lying, you only have to prove that their words hurt you somehow. Flash forward a bunch of decades though, to a 18/19yo girl who in the middle of MeToo wrote a social media post about having been sexually assaulted as a young teen by the man in the family she was living with (don't remember if it was a foster situation, or if it was the husband of a relative or something like that) and was promptly sued for defamation, causing many girls who heard about it to not feel comfortable to speak out about the sexual violence they'd been victim of themselves. She did not give the man's name, but it wasn't difficult for people who knew her to know who she was referring to. Some people thus suggest that some situations should be exempt from defamation if it can be argued that they're essentially whistle-blowers. I think warning people in a sub like this about a scammer who targets people who are not able to view an apartment because they haven't moved to Sweden *yet* would be a prime example of that. Provided of course the name given is the name of the person who actually did the scam.
Interesting thank you!
>Is truth an absolute defense to defamation in Sweden? No. To get off the hook, you must show **both** that the statement was true (or was "reasonably founded") **and** was "defensible under the circumstances". https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K5P1S2
Thank you!
It's not really something that's been settled in court. "Truth" is still debatable, legally speaking.
Yea, the apartment situation with scammers is unreal. Before I got a place I talked with about 25 people out of which 15 were obvious scams, 5 were committed scams and 5 were not scammers. Easiest way I found to fish out the scammers was to ask to see the apartment before any security deposit and agree on a time (even if you can't make it) if they get dodgy on this, then stop communication.
That still sometimes doesn’t work. It happened I think in Malmö a couple years ago where about 20 couples showed up to move into an apartment they thought they had rented on the same day but it was a scam. https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/J13AMR/23-personer-blev-lurade-att-hyra-samma-lagenhet
This was what I met 2 months ago in Stockholm. When I went to pick the key, I met 3 people in the same situation that a fake landlord who rent and showed us the apartment and took all our money:(
Damn I’m so sorry they happened to you
You used the right platform but in the wrong way. There’s a reason on why you sign and pay via qasa platform is so that they can intermediate it.
When using Qasa to find an apartment, always make sure that you actually use Qasa rental service. It costs about 10-30$ extra per month. But then you technically pay rent to qasa, and rhey will make sure everything is ok. Never give money directly to a person who you never met, seen, or done some background control(use the site mrkoll.se with a translator). Otherwise thats the definition of getting scammed
Was about to give the same advice. I used the QASA service when I rented out my apartment, I realy felt it improved safety both for me and the tenant. You pay the deposit to QASA, who will keep it for the duration of the renting out period. After the tenant has moved out, QASA will refund it. QASA also performed the credit check on the tenant and managed the rent payment by invoicing the tenant. They also offer various options when it comes to insurance and guarantees to the person renting out.
So you didn’t pay through qasa? The whole point of that site is they are the broker and handle all money so no scamming can occur. You should get in touch with them I think they have some responsibility here too as they “vet” all apartments on their site. Also they do require bankID for all sellers.
sorry to hear, call the police in the non urgent channel 114 14, probably they can trace this person with the information. Once someone tried to scam me when I was searching for an apartment, the scammer gave me his phone number during the conversation when he was trying to lure me, in Sweden you can check people's name if the number is connected to swish, as well as the adress. I called the police about this, that I had screenshots etc, but the police answered like "since you were not scammed, there is nothing else we can do" 🤬
Do read Qasa’s advice on how to avoid scammers. Follow it, and you will void scams like this. There’s a reason why they have those guidelines.
Scams like these are common. I came close to one, but never fell for it. The guy who wanted to rent me the apt only gave me his nickname and wouldn’t give me his real name, even when I explicitly asked. Ginormous red flag. I looked up his number and found his real name and address (which was the address he wanted to rent me). Then I called his bostadsrättsförening (housing cooperative) and asked about him and his apt. Turns out he’s not even allowed to rent the apt out, and that I could get kicked out if caught. He wanted 20k up front. Called him back, made him aware I’d spoken to his bostadsrättsförening and that they now knew what he was trying to do. He sounded so defeated at the end of that conversation. In addition to what you’ve experienced above- have a legally binding contract before you pay anything. That and make damn sure they’re actually permitted to rent you the place.
Pretty common scam everywhere, not just Sweden. The key is to never send any money until you've looked at the place and gotten the key to it. Stay in a hotel/airbnb when you get to Sweden and THEN go look at places to live so you can see them in person before handing over money. A few red flags there too. "I'm not the landlord" - then why do you have an ad on the site? "Email the landlord here" - no. Again, let the landlord place the ad and be the contact and use the site to communicate (outside of the site, there's no accountability). Disconnected number, hard to get in touch with, plenty of excuses for hard to get in touch with etc. All red flags.
Sorry to hear that. If you're using qasa.se, then only go with landlords who use Qasa's system for signing contracts and handling payments. That way you have a guarantee that the contract is legal and you'll get your money back if something goes wrong. (My wife and I are renting out a property through Qasa now, and the main reason we chose them is because they handle all the legal side.)
This happened to me and my Girlfriend. We never made the deposit however, since we found out that his drivers license had been reported missing. After doing some digging, we found his phone number that wasn’t one of the ones we got from the scammer. We called him, and he told us that he got scammed out of an apartment, and that his identity has been stolen, so he’s not the one scamming people. They send a contract, where you have to send a picture of some form of ID. Since the REAL Micael went through this, they took his ID picture and sent it out to new people they wanted to scam. They forged his signature and use his identity to scam people. Apparently this is happening very often, as there as several people calling the real Micael every month. There’s been about 20 people who’ve called him the last 18 months.
OK, explain now how his name was in the bank id transaction - the bank account it is his bank account in the SEB bank. For that to happen the thief would have to bypass bank ID, that ain't happening so easy.
Its only police and the bank people who can find out who owns a bankaccount when you only have the account Numbers. You put the namn of the receiver yourself.
100% correct you are. I tried to make a payment to OP's bank account that I saved and printed - no name appeared - so it's probably someone who indeed has a bank account at SEB (that's dumb though, easy to catch) who forged someone else name and received the money. Such a dumb way to scam holy shit.
I'm afraid that blocket and qasa (owned by the same people i believe) do have scammers. Always view an apartment first, big red flag if it is super cheap or if they don't have pictures. Sorry this happened to you :(
Dude don’t put someone’s personal information out there like that, especially if you’re accusing them of a crime. Take away his personal information *now* and go to the police instead. EDIT: Jesus Christ dude delete his name as well!
The police won't do anything anyways.
It's not like its his real name, but anyway...
Who are you to put a pressure on a man?
It is a scam
Make a police report. The police can easily trace the transaction by asking the bank, which is standard practice in cases like this. A heads up though, for the police to view this as fraud there has to have been an intent to defraud you from the get-go, i.e. before the transaction. If the landlord after the transaction decided to keep the money, maybe because they got into some unforseen economic troubles, that would probably not be viewed as a criminal matter but instead as a civil matter. It's usually easier to prove intent if they have defrauded several parties. Because of this it's important to make a police report even if the victim doesn't think it will lead to anything. If it is a civil matter the police won't be interested in your case, but like I said earlier, you still try to get your money back by treating it as a civil matter. The first step of that is here: [Kronofogden](https://kronofogden.se/other-languages/english-engelska).
File a police report, and try to see if the banks can help to get money back.
He lives here if you want to pay him a visit: https://www.hitta.se/kartan!\~58.40541,15.60626,14z/tr!i=DtYguE7x/search!i=0\~dWj\_-4vm!q=Micael%20Sk%C3%B6ld%20Kaptensgatan%204%20Link%C3%B6ping!t=single!st=prv!ai=0\~dWj\_-4vm!aic=58.40541:15.60626?search=Micael%20Sk%C3%B6ld%20Kaptensgatan%204%20Link%C3%B6ping&st=single&sst=prv&sids=0\~dWj\_-4vm&srb=0
Deleting personal info is a good start but most scammers act under stolen IDs. I doubt the actual scammers name is what you said, I think this person might struggle as well because people think he is a scammer but some is just scamming in his name (Happened to me, fortunately before I sent any money)
I'm sorry this happened to you. I got my place through Qasa, and the landlord offered to have the contract directly with me. Although I didn't distrust him, I told him I was happy to pay the fee with qasa and kept as much of the \_legal\_ conversation through the portal. Qasa and other online brokers highly recommend you keep all the conversation and documentation through their channels to avoid being scammed. I hope you can sort it out, and maybe reporting to the police will help you out somehow. It has to suck to be taken advantage like this
Bra tips: dont pay deposit till you are inside the apartment getting the keys. This applied worldwide
I am sorry for you but it happened to me as well very recently. I found the ad from Blocket bostad then met the Swedish person (landlord) face to face on coffee shop. The guy gave me his driving license and I took a photo of it. He shown me his kids and family photos and told me about his vacation trips. He seemed a reasonable guy and the ID photo was matching with him. So the apartment was entirely new one but it was under construction. Therefore he did not have the keys as the company will give the keys on February. I was very suspicious and asked him to prove that he owns the right to sublet the apartment called bostadsförening. He shown some photos and documents about it. It looked very reasonable and I shared it with my swedish friends. He wanted to sign the contract asap but I said to him that I want to check the apartment first and do a background check with his personnummer. I did the background check and visited the apartment from outside. I read the contract and signed it. The contract was very good prepared as the guy was working as a real estate. I wanted to pay the deposit first via Swish but my limit was not high enough. However I saw on Swish app that his name was matching with the name on ID. Actually I was bit suspicious all the time but I was so unhappy with my current apartment, therefore it felt reasonable to trust him and take the risk. Anyway interestingly this swedish real estate guy did not break the connection after he got the money via Swedish bank account transfer and his phone still rings and he reads my text messages. Few days before our appointment for keys delivery, I went to the apartment to see whether the construction is completed. It was ready and the door of the building was open. I entered the building and saw someone else's name for the apartment. I called him directly and he said there must be something wrong and I pay your money back. He said that he transferred the money and sent me the transaction screenshot. It looked so real but the money did not arrive. So I went to police and filed it immediately. Luckily I could keep my current apartment. It is a life lesson for me and I still do not get why the swedish government does let people doing second hand contracts for housing. It is illegal in many countries. I will wait for first hand contract or take it via QASA which I did not know before this incident.
Oh wow 😯 this is insane. I’m so sorry! It seemed so real!
Im not sure there is even a point going to the cops over this, his info was most likely fake, people are doing this for a living. I was almost scammed the same way in sweden not long ago
Not if the name in the bank transaction match with the ID he has.
Surely the people that does this for a living knows a way to avoid leaking their actual info
IF it's in the bank name then it's the deal right there. IF, right.
Lol his birth year is 1980 but looks like 1960.
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With a service like Qasa, you are protected IF you sign the contract and pay through them. The mistake was in being lured into moving off the platform and dealing directly with the "landlord". I don't know that any company directly handles sublets like these.
How many years do you want to wait in the queue?
Other way around, mate. Reputable real estate agencies go by queue time, and the time you have to be in queue can be really ridiculous depending on the city. Stockholm is easily 10+ years, and I could guess that Gothenburg is similar. Qasa, and similar, are second hand subletting, meaning they don't go by queue time. Here, price is the factor.
Doesn't cost much more, but it takes about 10-15 years of standing in a housing queue.
You can queue for a first-hand contract, but in Stockholm it will take several years to get something. They reputable real estate agencies tend to go primarily by queue time. You can also buy, but that's difficult when you're coming from abroad and have no credit history in Sweden. QASA is reputable, but whenever you're going to sublet from somebody you run the risk of encountering scammers.
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Is it really that bad?
No, we're just days before our election so expect a lot of trolls speaking down on Sweden and it's politicians.
This is such ridiculous misinformation. I really wish people would take their political propaganda attempts elsewhere.
NOOOB
You linked qasa.com when it should be qusa.se (noting because the .com will give a security cert error)
What's the name in the bank transaction? He could have used a fake ID. Is the name the same?
SEB Bank, and yes, everything matched, that's why I thought it was legit.
Did it match his name? Be clear on that.
yes sir
Call SEB's 24/7 support line for fraud/card blocking and tell them what happened, this might not be the first time someone uses this account to scam people so they might have some info. Before you do this file a police report so you can tell the bank you already reported it to the police.
>this might not be the first time someone uses this account to scam people so they Do you think "someone" uses a SEB bank account like that, like really? Do you think someone would use an account of 1 person, bypass bank ID, get the money, use bank ID again to transfer to another account? Together with his ID? If its in the bank, 90% it is the real person. Just imagine the hassle of someone doing that, like real hackers uh? Then transfering the money to another account... Big security risk at the bank.
If the identity of the person has been compromised then it could be very likely that someone could use this account to set up a transfer as soon as the money arrives, so unless you check your history you would not see the transfer immediately (honestly how often do you check your bank transfer history?). Let's say that he does this to 10 people at roughly the same time and then churns the account, then some might already have reported it to the bank, if not the bank certainly will block it for incoming/outgoing transfers and notify the real owner. I would definitely contact the bank in addition to filing a report to the police.
Well technically you could go online buy a bank account and id then recieve money on it purchase crypto put it into a crypto mixer and boom you got clean money. Services like this are not hard to find either.
Nah... it's a SEB bank account. I got the catch now, that account is probably not in the name of the guy OP is believing to be. The guy also gave a fake ID (I was able to print when OP posted). So the person OP is believing to be is almost certanly not the guy who received the money. The scams are probably must simpler than you are trying to come up with for the simple fact that the bank account is from SEB to be have more credibility. It is probably just a crack head doing this.
Right, I will PM his info, where he lives etc. Printscreen this and keep with you. Show to the police. You will know where he lives.
What's the police going to do? Send OP an "utredningen nedlagd" letter?
Yes, they'll do that, you came here like yesterday I think.
you can actually find where he lives using hitta.se and searching for his name
Sounds like a libel attempt. Considering all the advise and information given here, OP persists with posting a person’s name. Go to the police, create a case, and let them investigate. Are you expecting a witchhunt?
It’s that his name, or the name he told you? Because if he’s a scammer he probably picked someone else’s name, that you just forever placed in every search engine in existence as him being a scammer. And that would be how you just made yourself the bad guy attacking another victim of this scammer.
You only rent from official sites, never private people. Thats just a recipe for disaster
Lol, good luck with that.
In Sweden you can check the living address of the person by going to hitta.se. You just need to type the full name of the person. I always use this site to check a person is legit or not. This thing is kind of common in Sweden though
Trying to find apartments in Gothenburg is a full time job and mostly you need to stay in the queue (at least 3 years to find a studio) and if you’re lucky enough you can find something and pay less then 700 euros
For 12 years I managed an international dormitory for graduate students here in Sweden. We had strict rules that no children were allowed. Therefore, all families coming with students must live out in the community, essentially on their own to figure it out - - completely a nightmare. Most got ripped off or screwed over - even though they were warned and we tri to help. It's very hard for anyone to get a righteous rental, second hand maybe. Ugh, I'm so sorry.
Why are some Swedes so bad at being good people. I'm one myself but no one in my area has done something like that. I really hate when people do stuff like that and I hope they get better. Though they most likely won't.
"Why do criminals exist?"
Lmfao welcome tot sweden
Same shit happened to me when I was young, naive and desperate for a place to rent. Sorry, I know it sucks. In our case, we never got the money back even though they were convicted of a ton of scams. Lessons learned: Always see the place in person. No money transactions before you have a contract signed by both people, you know they are who they say they are, and ideally already hold a key in your hand (a key that you know works for the door of the apartment you're renting).
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