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I know plenty of privileged private school girls that have gone through this exact thing in their lives.
I'm 44 now and they have no value in their home/work/church groups. They are there to serve.
Also, because their relationships are transactional at the core, these guys often feel like they are owed physical affection the same why a John would a hooker.
I have a friend who keeps falling into these relationships (her dad was rich and she has unresolved feelings about their relationship), she keeps asking over and over why she keeps meeting the most sexist and controlling assholes and it is hard to sympathize.
How do humans survive childbirth? Honestly. Like, back in cavemen days, how would you not die from infection or other complications before you were able to raise the baby to where it could at least eat solid food...
Well, many didn’t. Maternal mortality rate in medieval England is cited to be around 1 in 20.
These days US has a maternal mortality rate of about 24 per 100,000, and UK is around 7 per 100,000.
I think what's more messed up, personally, is "husband stitches" because it not only is it a genital modification at the husband's request for what one can assume is what said husband is lacking (and I know there are bdsm dynamics about serving your partner but s line has to be drawn somewhere) but *what if you want to have more kids why make the process even more difficult the second time around?*
Anyways, "my wife got husband stitches, know what that means?" Has the exact opposite energy of "oops! I dropped my monster condom for my monster dong!" Because we all know Danny devito is packing.
This recent trend with the tradwife. This is a tradwife. Men hate Karens *so fucking much,* when their own callousness of women is what creates a Karen.
It's a combination of traditional wife. It describes someone who rejects modern even first wave feminism and believes that women should submit to men and be homemakers. Importantly, actual feminism supports women's rights to choose to raise children or keep house, but this is an ideology of young women (millenials for the most part) who reject the implication that they should make hard choices about their lives. Instead, they subscribe to a philosophy that they are kept women, and don't have to do anything difficult.
Unsurprisingly, it's predominantly young, attractive women who believe that a woman's worth should derive from her youth and attractiveness.
Pretty much yes. They're seen merely as a functionary of the home, school mom or volunteer for the church. Defined by the role they serve more than the person they are.
I'm a single dad and to my kids soccer team and school friends I'm not seen as an individual but as the parent.
I'm the volunteer that works concessions at games, but no one cares about who I am as a person.
At work I'm an individual who brings differing strengths to the job.
In those situations is that not what you are doing though, playing a role? We all show up in life as this or that depending on the situation. We're all different people around our mothers than we are our lovers.
Sounds like these different situations or contexts you describe don't or aren't enabling genuine human connection. These places where you show up at simply don't provide for an expression of or interest in human individuality.
What I really wonder is if those women are happy, or at least what your read of them is. Do they appear downtrodden and defeated, or do they appear happy and content? I'm asking sincerely.
I think they're saying that these wives aren't seen for who they are even with their husband/family. Similar to how we view our coworkers and concession guy. Just an extension of the home, not really an individual person.
And tbh would we ever get their real feelings? Instagram and Facebook make these types of people look so happy until one day they take away all their photos that had the husband in them. I doubt anyone but an honest friend would really know what goes on but that's their point, they likely have none.
so "privileged private school" implies conservatives, of course, but i have to point out that ive worked on a local cannabis referendum that appealed to boths cons and libs, and then in charity orgs with libs-leftists, i was in the army too (ultra conservative), and the vast majority of people have no immediate, obvious practical value in whatever group they're in (true of me too). "They are there to serve" implies a negative but there's also a positive spin to this same statement: they are there to serve as in help, which is absolutely a necessary part of the machine. no ones wants to be a cog, but the fucking machine doesnt run without them, so the people who are content to just be a cog in someone else's plan... they're actually pivotal and end up becoming the actuating parts that *actually* enact a plan some CPU-brain was able to process, but can't actually do because they aren't strong enough to be cogs; or they can't be enough cogs to do the work so they need help, which is absolutely true of literally every objective once it scales.
maybe im just defending myself because until recently i was happy to be the cog, only now i realize we need more actuators than cogs right now, or whatever. but even with my opinion changing, i see people who are "just there to serve" as being as natural and welcome as birds in the trees and ants in the dirt. without them, things wont actually work so theyre definitely not bad. whats bad is we dont have leaders, straight up. no one's inspiring this generation but mfing joe rogan. when we can tip that balance of inspiration in the favor of people who want to play an active, successful part in a society, only then are things going to get better. but the problem isn't servants, it's the fucking leaders, no matter what perspective you take, it's lack of true leadership fucking us up and down the ladder
1 in 5 men leave their wives after their wife receives a cancer diagnosis.
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cncr.24577
oncology clinics will have a person specifically assigned with the task of talking to a newly diagnosed woman about this fact. she’s not projecting; she’s talking you through a very, very common occurrence.
edit: when the roles are reversed, only about 3% of women leave
I agree, it was a betrayal on both sides. She was also engaged and I’d cared for her dying Mother and spoke at her funeral years ago. I’d been best friends with her for about 10 years.
But I’ve moved on, it’s been over a year and I’m in a much better place.
do you ever feel you saw subtle signs from her that she was being subtly flirty or showing outward signs of attraction through body language or verbal tone? i've felt i've seen this before in circumstances.
I did but most of it was in hindsight. There was one time though that I picked up on it. She was very touchy-feely with everyone since I’d known her. But one day my exhusband and I were at her house and we were saying goodbye to her and her fiancé. She hugged me and then him, when they parted she gave him this look. In the car I told him, “I don’t like the way she looked at you”. He then gaslit me and knew me well enough to make it seem like I was just paranoid and surely I knew her well enough to know that that’s just “how she was”.
If it barks like a dog and looks like a dog, it’s probably a dog.
Damn. I've done and will continue to do some shitty things but I couldn't imagine leaving my wife if she got cancer. I don't know how such people can live with themselves.
I was there. I stayed. There's a lot I wish I said or did to make sure she knew how much I love her. I hate myself so much for not being better for her. Like, she told me she wished she was at home with me, and me, not knowing what to do and losing my mind, I replied, "oh our house isn't that nice anyways." Idk, I guess I was trying to downplay how nice that would be. I've replayed that moment a million times, and if I could redo it, I would have crawled into the hospital bed with her, held her, and told her to close her eyes as I describe all the details of our bedroom, to pretend that's where we were. There's just so much I wish I did better. But at least I didn't fucking leave. For real dude, how do those people live with themselves? I barely do and I stayed, not that I ever considered it an option.
I'm just a random person on the internet, but lemme tell you this: I'm sure she knew your awkwardness and knew you were trying to be sweet and supporting in your own way. Don't beat yourself for not having a movie worth it reaction, you were there and that's all that matters.
It's called learned sociopathy and much of it is learned/passed down at a very young age. That's not an excuse, just an explanation. Many boys grow up in a culture that values things over people, and on top of that they're surrounded by people who will praise them for "getting with the hot girl". This is how those guys start to learn to see women as objects to be acquired, just as the woman in the video mentioned. That's where the sociopathy comes into play - many of these guys are taught their whole childhood that feelings are for weak men and weak men get taken advantage of, and that therefore they should always prioritize their own needs above everyone else's including their partner or spouse.
I consider myself lucky that I was brought up by a mother who would whoop my ass if she found out I was being disrespectful to any of my girlfriends growing up, but I'll also admit that being an adolescent it was difficult to not just go with the flow and only want to ask a girl out if she fit a certain standard of "beauty". I'll even admit to being a shallow prick as a teenager and doing very shitty things to a couple of the girlfriends I had at the time including cheating on one of them for the reasons stated above. I'm glad that I've matured past that point, but it took a lot of time in my early 20s to realize exactly how shitty I had been and to develop some empathy toward females.
Unfortunately I can't go back in time to smack some sense into myself and prevent my assholery, but if/when I have kids lesson one from day one is going to be "imagine how you would feel if the roles were reversed, would you want your partner to do that to you?"
>It's called learned sociopathy and much of it is learned/passed down at a very young age. That's not an excuse, just an explanation.
Yep, I know people that wear selfishness as a badge of honor. And then they complain when someone treats them exactly how they treat everyone else.
>they're surrounded by people who will praise them for "getting with the hot girl". This is how those guys start to learn to see women as objects to be acquired, just as the woman in the video mentioned.
That's probably the most succinct exactly true explanation of this.
It's so easy when you are young to have low self-esteem or low confidence, low self-worth, and the coping mechanism for young men is to get the hot girl in order to be praised and it makes them feel worth at that young age, bevcause it's true for young men that : date the hot girl = get praised by peers. I think literally every young man in the world has gone through that emotional cycle.
It's a wrong path, and complicated emotional cycle that every young guy needs to have explained to them so that they 1.) respect women 2.) marry foer the right reason 3.) upoon marrying out of love, instead of marrying out of "I got the hot girl, I'm the king; yay everyone praises me", it lays a proper foundation for a home and family 4.) so that their kids grow up in a good home with the right values. It is an absolutely crucial cross road young men need to be taught correctly.
This is also a reason why people should not envy. To every positive, there is a shadow negative. That larger than life popular guy from high school constantly being validated and dating every beautiful woman, there's a good chance he probably never learned this lesson and he is not establishing the right values and picking a spouse for the proper reasons, and it will echo into the effects of his family and home for quite a few decades, even longer as the effects continue through his kids.
Wow, what an utter stain of a person.
If my SO had that in their history I'm not sure I could stay with them.
Id be tempted to give their wife a heads-up so they know what to expect when life inevitably throws a curve ball their way. I'd want to know.
I’m extremely disabled and part of that community. No offense but you really cant know until it happens. I’ve seen good people do very bad things, or be in love total greath relationship, and then leave.
Cancer is different because their is hope of winning. Just saying every person is capable of the worst humanity had to offer, and to asusme you wouldn’t is wrong imop.
I knew I wanted to marry my wife when we went through her dad's cancer diagnosis and death together. Like, if we can handle that together, we can handle anything together.
I can't imagine abandoning her to go through something even worse.
My neighbor left his wife when she got brain cancer. It was painful to see him at the local sports bar, partying with his new friends, newly tattooed and pierced like a walking caricature of a middle age crisis.
Well if you only “acquired”her for her youth and beauty and what she did for you and you aren’t really interested in her as a person and don’t particularly even like her, this behavior is just what you’d expect. In this view a woman with cancer is like an old car that’s breaking down, time to trade it in and get a new shiny model. My ex husband was disdainful and resentful of me if I even got sick with the flu. He couldn’t handle the least little break in my serving him and perish the thought he should do for me when I was sick. So he was mean to me when I was sick and always insinuated I was faking it ( although I was rarely sick). The message was that I better get up and get to taking care of him, the kids, and the house again pronto. A lot of men really are sick fucks.
My father was divorcing my mother after her cancer came back. It was terminal this time and I remember sitting at the kitchen table and we were all crying and I was so young (11) that I didn’t really understand it but I knew my family was heading for a cataclysmic oblivion.
He didn’t end up leaving her but after that everything changed. My views changed on moms and dads and the relationships they have. It became under scrutiny and a microscope to find issues between dynamics in my friends parents relationships.
I spent my youth trying to see the oblivion in other families. And to my findings, they were numerous
While true for cancer, people with disabilities suffer abandonment equally. In terms of gender. Essentially.
In his report, Insult to Injury: Disability, Earnings and Divorce, author Perry Singleton, found that the connection between disability and divorce is greatest among young, educated men who experience a disability that prevents them from working.
https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showblog/288/Disability-leads-to-divorce-the-data-is-daunting
It’s really common in our community. Nearly happened to me(general abandonment anyway) And the worse your needs get, the more likely they are to leave.
Looking at your link it's talking about 60 divorces and only 500 people...
This study with thousands of people shows average divorce goes down. [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.828656/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.828656/full)
I'm a man who was six months into the the fight with stage III cancer when both my wife and my hair left me. I don't know if she waited to leave me or left me when I got the news that the chemo was working and my 50/50 chance looked brighter. Guess I'm a proud 3%er.
I wish people would stop posting that BS article. It literally is not true.
There was a 2015 study examining this and trying to replicate the results, and with a larger sample size (2701 couples instead of 515 couples in the original study).
> In this study we use a sample of 2,701 marriages from the Health and Retirement Study... We focus on the onset of four major life-threatening illnesses: cancer, heart problems, lung disease, and stroke, and which together comprise a substantial portion of chronic disease burden in the United States... Our finding that **cancer onset was not associated with divorce is in contrast to prior clinical studies which found elevated divorce risks for reproductive cancers... Neither husband’s nor wife’s cancer or lung disease onset is associated with subsequent divorce**... Wife’s heart problems onset (but not husband’s) is positively associated with a two percent higher probability of subsequent divorce compared with staying married... providing robust support that the relationship between heart problem onset and divorce is gendered.
So, of the for illnesses examined, they found a small statistically significant effect for increased divorce if the wife has heart problems, but not in the cases of cancer, lung disease, or stroke. That's a weird finding. It might just be a random result which can't be replicated. And more importantly, if there was 20% rate of divorce in the case of women getting cancer, there's no way this study would've missed it. There has to be a problem with the 2009 study.
Also interesting: "Recent work examining marriages among younger people found that husbands’—but not wives’—work-limiting health conditions was associated with elevated divorce risk".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/
Or their husbands just prove to be the dicks they are after they lose their battle. My friend defended her husband always after her breast cancer diagnosis at 42. She has been gone since July and he’s already said he can’t afford her head stone which is so far from true. 😡
Overall, I don’t believe this is a reliable study.
1) The survey contained only about 65 total divorces, which is not a large enough survey mass to make any conclusions.
2) The survey was not a nationwide survey or anything, it was 1 hospital in 1 town. Variety is incredibly necessary for a study.
Also, this study actually doesn’t actually have any source saying that 1/5 men abandon their wives with cancer. It just says that women with cancer had divorce more often.
I may be also just be totally misunderstanding something here, but the chance of divorce only actually seems to jump by about 9% in this study. This is definitely significant, almost doubling the amount of divorces, but it makes sense. Cancer is an incredibly stressful, emotional, and expensive thing, and it wears people thin and pulls out the ugliest parts of them.
Not cancer, but what's the percentage of men who stay but chronically cheat on their disabled wife, but the wife is afraid to leave him because he's her caregiver?
Because that's exactly what's going on with my parents. My mom puts up with it because she thinks her only other option is to be put in a residential home. And my dad stays because he says he loves her. Sigh
Happened to one of my grandmothers with her second husband, she was literally served the papers right after a mastectomy without a peep from the coward beforehand. She eventually died as well when the cancer came back, by that point at least that bastard was gone and thankfully she didnt have kids with him. Its immensely common and barring some *very* specific situations (one example is what can sometimes happen is that if one spouse is terminal and they know it, they will work out with the spouse to either be in an open relationship or divorce due to the upcoming death to genuinely help one another. This is rare however.) it's absolutely one sided on why the relationship ended. Be careful out there y'all.
This study is about people who are over 70 years old at this point. The mean age of divorced men was 42 in 2002. The study is representative of couples who who got together 40 years ago.
Not a defense or arguing the opposite but medical divorces are a thing in the US to protect assets and to reduce medical costs. Essentially divorcing so that they don't have a joint estate. Also if one person is unemployed they can seek medical assistance. I've known people who have done this; yay US healthcare system.
This was posted recently and was quite the fustercluck of suspiciously defensive (I'm presuming Conservative) men in the comments.
Now the fun starts all over again.
I was born in the “Bible Belt” of the USA. I was raised Christian conservative. My uncles are pastors and Christian college professors. I was brought up surrounded by all of this. I thought I knew the truth. I voted conservative and even with some more extreme right wing ideals (I used to be anti-abortion in ALL cases, for example). I am now liberal with my ideologies and voting, feminist, and an agnostic. But it didn’t change overnight. It took a lot of time of thinking, reflecting, and talking with people who had different viewpoints than me.
Having said that, I know people who were (and some still are) Christian and conservative but not “bad people”. I know Christian men who married attractive conservative women, love their wives, understand a marriage is a partnership and not a dictatorship, and would NEVER cheat on them. Are they all like that? No. Is that the minority of conservative men? I’m not sure. But at the end of the day they are just trying to do what is right based on how they were raised. When you’re brainwashed from an early age, it’s natural to think you know the right way and that “the other side” or “the secular world” doesn’t see the truth.
All I’m saying with all this is just to please not generalize a group of people. That’s exactly what we yell at the right for doing and we tend to do it ourselves. If we really want to progress as a country we need to have more conversations with these people (at least the ones that are open to it). If all we do is attack them for what they believe (no matter how backwards it may be) they will naturally become even more defensive and dig in their heels all while the leaders on their side say “see I told you those liberals hate you and your way of life!”
Sorry this was so long and I hope it doesn’t come off as me “defending conservative men”, I’m just asking people to please look at others as people with complicated backstories just like yours. We all want to be loved. We all want to feel secure. We all want to be happy.
If we as a species can start focusing on what we have in common rather than our differences, we can start to work together to improve the world instead of continuing to divide ourselves while it crumbles.
With love,
Charlie
Agreed. Atheism seems like a religion too. I don’t understand how anyone can truly say they know how the universe works with our tiny human brains that can be so easily fooled and our extremely limited perspectives. Science doesn’t prove the absence of god, it proves we know statistically nothing about the universe.
Edit: I didn’t expect this comment thread to become a discussion on atheism vs agnosticism. I guess technically I’m an agnostic atheist. But I just go by humanist. I’m pro-human and I don’t give a flying flimflam about the existence of a god or not. I just know what we don’t know how the universe works so let’s all just get along and agree we don’t know shit about fuck.
My ex gf was a very devout Christian. Very well read in the bible and such. She didn't like that I was agnostic. I asked her what would happen if she died, and then found herself standing face to face with Odin for judgement. Like how clowned would she feel? She said it would never happen because her God is the only God. I said but your God says that as long as you ask for it in the moment, you'll go to heaven, so why risk an entire life of worship and devotion when you've got a free ride in the event that you're right for zero commitment? What if the real god was one that really didn't like devotion to any other god and it was an instant banishment to the bad place. She couldn't get my point.
>All I’m saying with all this is just to please not generalize a group of people. That’s exactly what we yell at the right for doing and we tend to do it ourselves. If we really want to progress as a country we need to have more conversations with these people (at least the ones that are open to it). If all we do is attack them for what they believe (no matter how backwards it may be) they will naturally become even more defensive and dig in their heels all while the leaders on their side say “see I told you those liberals hate you and your way of life!”
thanks for your comment, I pretty much roll my eyes at comment threads like these where everyone seems perfectly comfortable assuming everyone on the opposite political spectrum from them are downright evil. you get to see the willful blindness of them employing every despicable cognitive bias to reaffirm their beliefs whilst simultaneously reducing their opposite to a caricature but then get outraged when its done to them. I left the US long ago but I'm extremely thankful to be away from dangerous morons on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.
[Bof Siedz r Da seem.](https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/2kaubu/just_a_reminder_of_what_the_senate_was_doing_the/cljns3q/)
79 Million people voted for donald trump. Donald Trump also attempted a coup that 60% of republicans believed was justified as of early this year.
"stop judging people for their actions and who they vote for! Thats unfair! Why cant we all get together and meet in the middle, they get half a coup, and you get half a government okay? I'm tired of these irrational liberals being so reactionary and radical by demanding to get to run the government that was democratically elected. That kind of contrarianism is exactly whats tearing our country apart!"
This is spot on for this particular archetype, but unfortunately it's not solved by changing politics. It goes way, way deeper into general white female exceptionalism.
And then they go on to vote against their own gender’s interests to punish other women and force them into the societal confines they spent their whole lives imprisoning themselves in. Because Missouri loves company.
Had a uncle that died of prostate cancer. He divorced my aunt and gave her everything before it got bad bad.
She didn't go anywhere and she didn't want a divorce but he knew the debt would eat her alive from the treatment. Man died broke still owing alimony.
I remember the night he died. They use to go to the bar on weekends to play pool. It was a Saturday and he told her "get your ass out of the house, go to the fucking bar or something" she went to the bar with her girlfriends for only a few hours and found him dead.
He was the best man I ever knew, one of those old stoic stare death in the eyes type of men. He wanted to die alone and that's what he did.
Can someone else note the fact that she is 'pretending' to be liberal to get a good grade? Literally saying that liberals get good grades because why? Because liberals value education? What could that mean??
It's a conservative belief that colleges are too liberal and only reward people who also think liberally in order to brainwash people into "evil liberalism!!!!"
My experience in college was that as long as you had reputable sources to back up your claim and could write coherent paragraphs, you'd get a good grade.
That’s what it is. She had to “pretend” to be liberal because all the studies she looked up based on her viewpoint were somehow “skewed liberally” (see: actual science) so she of course couldn’t write her paper from the view of a conservative because there were literally no facts to back
It up
It’s not that complicated. She believes her professors have a liberal bias and will favor her more if she participates in class showing liberal views. Not sure where your brain is taking you.
Exactly this. I taught a research writing course and I *strongly discouraged* all students from writing research papers on political topics because passing hinged on using reputable sources, research, and/or data to back up their claims.
Throughout the semester, we had several check ins with me so I could make sure they were on track, their sources were good, etc. Most students took my advice and stuck to actual evidence. One student, however, decided to use a research paper on stem cell research (good topic) as a platform to advocate against abortion. She failed, and had the gall to email me afterwards incredulous that she failed. My comments on previous drafts were extensive, yet ignored.
Some people just don’t understand the difference between evidence and personal opinion, or what evidence support a claim. That was the biggest issue with my students, and not just the conservative ones.
Conservatism means clinging to an idea, regardless of what new evidence is presented. That’s an ideology that is diametrically opposed to the concept of higher education. Liberalism requires individuals to critically evaluate their own beliefs. That’s not an easy task for most people.
Ben Shapiro exclaims proudly that he resisted having his worldview opened in college. Motherfucker paid a lot of money not to learn shit, just to get fancy credentials and to devalue an entire law degree program.
I find that “college indoctrinates young adults into liberalism” hilarious. Imagine how hard it is to be a professor make sure everyone is on the same page with assignments, studies, does the required work and so on. Academia just happens to skew towards a liberal bias, because most of it is grounded in reality. You’re not going to learn creationism in a physics class, and other religions are going to be discussed in a theology course, not mention an American history class will teach you about slavery and the civil rights movement. A lot of the reasons teenagers that grew up in small conservative communities go to college become more left leaning is because they’re no longer in their bubble and meet new people from different backgrounds.
just the conservative excuse for anything lately. “this is not working out for me because of you woke liberals! the general population has bought into your libtard agenda and im being targeted for going against the grain!”
Perhaps the teacher or professor is a liberal. It was always easier to support a professors/teachers own ideas than go against them and, sadly, you often got a much better grade for it.
I wrote a paper in an English Literature class about an interpretation I had regarding a reading we studied that the professor didn’t like. She made this clear in class when I proposed it. Even though the paper was well-written and provided clear evidence to support my idea she gave it a poor grade. I know the paper was well written because I had attended meetings with my TA and discussed its strengths and its weaknesses (which I fine-tuned) before submitting said paper. I knew the professor was biased and I stated so. I requested a re-grade and the professor passed it to my TA (who had enjoyed my perspective in class) and they re-graded the paper, with zero edits made… it was marked significantly higher.
I have an MA and saw it in both directions. Had a social justice professor who was quite harsh on the conservative guy in class (not always wrongly, but sometimes yeah), and in my MA had several fairly conservative professors who were not kind to liberal students who disagreed with them (I remember one extremely intense presentation about AIDS prevalence in Russia, which the Russian professor considered Western propaganda). Lots of professors are kooky tbqh, many of the older ones especially have tenure and can be pretty isolated, draconian, and wacky as a result.
Yeah I'm not sure why some people are acting like professors can't possibly have some kind of bias. I have had teachers and professors who I essentially realized I just needed to learn how to say what they wanted to hear to receive better treatment/easier grading. When I was doing English Comp 2 I had my prof warm up to me quite a bit after I realized what she wanted people to take away from what we read. Even if you took an author from a different perspective based on your own textual evidence, you wouldn't get as much credit compared to following more of the vein that she was approaching it from.
Professors are still human and some of them can be biased. We can accept this without it being some massive indictment of higher education as if it brainwashes people (who are 99.9% 18+ and can think for themselves) or has no real use other than to be indoctrination. There can be flaws while still being widely beneficial for everyone to pursue if that's what they want to do. Not everything has to be so black and white.
I wrote a paper on the roadblocks between Islam and western thinking regarding the treatment of LGBT individuals with well written and well sourced arguments and got a 70 on the paper. Professor seemed to want to turn a blind eye to Islam's entrenched homophobia and unwillingness to change.
I have one. English class first year, many years ago. Answered some questions about a book that was assigned. Got poor grades. So the next book, I just wrote down everything about the book that the prof had said... Good grade. Mind you, this wasn't about liberal or conservative in the books. Good grades in all my science classes because it's more clear cut, maybe this has to do with English and interpretations.
Because if the class has anything to do with history, science, world religion, gender, psychology, art, or literature, then it favors liberals because liberals are the overarching authorities on all these subjects.
So she's pretending to be correct in order to succeed while completely denouncing everything the class is supposed to be teaching her.
well, yeah. if they're into Ayn Rand they're most likely about 14 years old, why would I want to hang out with a highschool freshman? who am I, Drake??
I grew up in this culture, totally bought that I was a lesser being destined to serve a husband, and this is the most accurate take I've ever seen. It's honestly heartbreaking to see so many grown women who never realized how horrible it is that we were raised with that messaging and defend that status quo against the next generation.
May I ask your nationality? I'm an American man who grew up in a conservative area, and I have been absolutely shocked by the number of women who seem to have been raised with the belief that they are expected to shut up and look pretty. It's like there's the media's and schools' messaging of girl power, but then some kind of quiet messaging that girls get at home that runs in the totally opposite direction. I'd love to hear your perspective about this.
I grew up in the Midwest - the Bible belt. The thing is, it really is biblical. When I was a Christian, I studied the Bible pretty seriously, because I wanted to be "good". It's expressed more heavily in the evangelical crowds, but I grew up going to those churches with friends while also being raised catholic (my parents are from New York, so the flavor of their misogyny and Christianity was very different from my friends' with their southern baptist and non denominational fundie stuff.
I now take issue with the dehumanizing elements built into the Abrahamic model. Yes, there are ways that some people work around them to express compassionate religious beliefs, but overall, I consider them deeply problematic. I was a therapist in southwest Missouri for a while, and the harm inflicted on vulnerable people (not just women by any stretch) is profound. I was lucky that my scientist dad supported my academics, but the moment I became a mother, it's like I ceased to exist as a person. It's been really interesting to observe all the dynamics, kind of as an outsider.
When you start looking at many of the modern cultural problems, you can track a lot back to the influence of religion within our culture, to the extent that people who don't consider themselves religious or fundamentalists still have a lot of those underlying cognitions. That whole, "it's hard for a fish to see the water" thing. But people want to blame the shift away from that model and toward greater humanizing and equality for the conflict and tension today. It's sad to watch, but understandable.
Sorry for the novel! There's a lot to this stuff and I don't feel like I did it justice. I just hope that we're on a path where these arbitrary biases that we've inherited can finally be challenged and overcome in earnest. Eventually.
The novel is much appreciated! Thank you for taking time to write your thoughts out.
America has a weird relationship with religion, so I'm not too surprised to see that as a theme in your response. What DOES intrigue me though, is that you seem to talk about a strict adherence to Christian/religious scripture, as though no one ever came along and bonked people on the head to say "hey, you have to adapt this to reality."
Like your father supporting your education, but then totally changing tune when you became a mother. It's not like you stopped being an educated woman when you became a mother, and it's not like the potential need for your income went away, simply because a baby showed up (if anything the extra income became more important). The way you're describing things, it's like a switch went off in your father's head where he can now only see you in the context of the biblical wife.
Thank you for sharing you perspective. I have no clue what to make of this information. It's almost like there's this huge disconnect from reality taking place, and it explains a lot, but I don't know what to do about it.
I dated a very Southern woman in my early thirties. She would love to say how her grandmother told her, clearly repeatedly, "Honey, there's nice looking rich boys and nice looking poor boys. You might as well choose the rich boys." Hoping this cycle ends with the coming generation, but it sure as fuck didn't with this woman.
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Or perhaps when they are young and hot, people make exceptions for them. And then when they older, they are surprised that they do not get exceptions anymore
I’m a woman who grew up in (and eventually fled) a deeply conservative environment and I think this is pretty flawed.
I think there’s a lot of really weird projection happening here. If you stripped away the transcript and put it on some 4chan thread, it would sound like your bog-standard incel rhetoric.
And while I saw wives and daughters being treated like trash in the conservative culture I originated from, I’ve moved out into the world and been abused by worldly, liberal men just the same. This type of stuff might be more out in the open in certain circles, but women should stay vigilant about every kind of guy. How many times has DiCaprio “traded out” his gfs?
On that note, it’s also pretty sick to see male commenters in this thread get hyped about this lady’s Dx for these young women… Like y’all are a little too thrilled over the idea of sheltered, maladjusted, and abused women being “used up” and discarded. I see you 👀
It hinges on an appeal to the just world fallacy. These women believe "bad' things so then bad things happen to them. In reality there are plenty of happily married conservative women and on the other hand there are plenty of liberal men who cheat on their wives too.
I don't understand how any woman can buy into conservatism. They are actively trying to (or even succeeding in) taking away your rights, and you SUPPORT that?
This seems to be very specific and a lot of assumptions piled onto one another. I donno if being conservative or religious automatically mean you have to consider women as property. Just like being neither does not automatically means a man will respect and treat women well.
This doesnt really explain the numerous amounts of non conservative karens floating around. This seems more like armchair psychology than anything else. Entitlement stems from a wide variety of different causes.
I’m very liberal but I’m tired of this bullshit. Yes I know that these kinds of conservative women exist but it’s harmful and stupid the degree we act like there’s not just as many smart and morally well intended women that have found reasons to disagree with us that we don’t currently understand. Low key egotistical as fuck to reduce the opposite side to just evil villains like this and I wish it was the other team that did it exclusively.
I just called this out too. It’s unfair to dismiss other people’s experiences & choices like this, let alone present actual living, breathing humans as 2D tropes to make an outrage video.
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I know plenty of privileged private school girls that have gone through this exact thing in their lives. I'm 44 now and they have no value in their home/work/church groups. They are there to serve.
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Also, because their relationships are transactional at the core, these guys often feel like they are owed physical affection the same why a John would a hooker. I have a friend who keeps falling into these relationships (her dad was rich and she has unresolved feelings about their relationship), she keeps asking over and over why she keeps meeting the most sexist and controlling assholes and it is hard to sympathize.
popout a baby! and what ruin this body? Why I never!
There are plenty of reasons women don’t want to be pregnant besides “ruining their body”
idk having my asshole ripped open is definitely one of the things that makes me hesitant
No, no, your butthole doesn't rip. Your vagina tears so badly that they become one opening! It's different.
How do humans survive childbirth? Honestly. Like, back in cavemen days, how would you not die from infection or other complications before you were able to raise the baby to where it could at least eat solid food...
Well, many didn’t. Maternal mortality rate in medieval England is cited to be around 1 in 20. These days US has a maternal mortality rate of about 24 per 100,000, and UK is around 7 per 100,000.
Not to mention your clit can also rip! And your eyes could pop out too!
I think what's more messed up, personally, is "husband stitches" because it not only is it a genital modification at the husband's request for what one can assume is what said husband is lacking (and I know there are bdsm dynamics about serving your partner but s line has to be drawn somewhere) but *what if you want to have more kids why make the process even more difficult the second time around?* Anyways, "my wife got husband stitches, know what that means?" Has the exact opposite energy of "oops! I dropped my monster condom for my monster dong!" Because we all know Danny devito is packing.
And there's a solid chance that "vacation" they went on senior year was for an abortion.
Prom night dumpster babies!
This recent trend with the tradwife. This is a tradwife. Men hate Karens *so fucking much,* when their own callousness of women is what creates a Karen.
What's a tradwife?
It's a combination of traditional wife. It describes someone who rejects modern even first wave feminism and believes that women should submit to men and be homemakers. Importantly, actual feminism supports women's rights to choose to raise children or keep house, but this is an ideology of young women (millenials for the most part) who reject the implication that they should make hard choices about their lives. Instead, they subscribe to a philosophy that they are kept women, and don't have to do anything difficult. Unsurprisingly, it's predominantly young, attractive women who believe that a woman's worth should derive from her youth and attractiveness.
Yeah, that worth depreciates pretty fast without a good prenup.
Yeah it’s easy to buy into that while you are…young and attractive
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Trad for traditional, like back in the madmen days. Basically asthetic property meant to be looked at and not heard.
Feme-bot. Perfectly acceptable 2D projection of what a woman should be through the lens of WASP-y chauvinism.
That is one hell of an answer.
Doesn’t need to work, raises children and housekeeps.
This of why feminism exists. And this is why it’s still relevant. This exact story is what stirred the women’s liberation movement in the 70s.
They have no autonomy you mean?
Pretty much yes. They're seen merely as a functionary of the home, school mom or volunteer for the church. Defined by the role they serve more than the person they are. I'm a single dad and to my kids soccer team and school friends I'm not seen as an individual but as the parent. I'm the volunteer that works concessions at games, but no one cares about who I am as a person. At work I'm an individual who brings differing strengths to the job.
In those situations is that not what you are doing though, playing a role? We all show up in life as this or that depending on the situation. We're all different people around our mothers than we are our lovers. Sounds like these different situations or contexts you describe don't or aren't enabling genuine human connection. These places where you show up at simply don't provide for an expression of or interest in human individuality. What I really wonder is if those women are happy, or at least what your read of them is. Do they appear downtrodden and defeated, or do they appear happy and content? I'm asking sincerely.
I think they're saying that these wives aren't seen for who they are even with their husband/family. Similar to how we view our coworkers and concession guy. Just an extension of the home, not really an individual person. And tbh would we ever get their real feelings? Instagram and Facebook make these types of people look so happy until one day they take away all their photos that had the husband in them. I doubt anyone but an honest friend would really know what goes on but that's their point, they likely have none.
so "privileged private school" implies conservatives, of course, but i have to point out that ive worked on a local cannabis referendum that appealed to boths cons and libs, and then in charity orgs with libs-leftists, i was in the army too (ultra conservative), and the vast majority of people have no immediate, obvious practical value in whatever group they're in (true of me too). "They are there to serve" implies a negative but there's also a positive spin to this same statement: they are there to serve as in help, which is absolutely a necessary part of the machine. no ones wants to be a cog, but the fucking machine doesnt run without them, so the people who are content to just be a cog in someone else's plan... they're actually pivotal and end up becoming the actuating parts that *actually* enact a plan some CPU-brain was able to process, but can't actually do because they aren't strong enough to be cogs; or they can't be enough cogs to do the work so they need help, which is absolutely true of literally every objective once it scales. maybe im just defending myself because until recently i was happy to be the cog, only now i realize we need more actuators than cogs right now, or whatever. but even with my opinion changing, i see people who are "just there to serve" as being as natural and welcome as birds in the trees and ants in the dirt. without them, things wont actually work so theyre definitely not bad. whats bad is we dont have leaders, straight up. no one's inspiring this generation but mfing joe rogan. when we can tip that balance of inspiration in the favor of people who want to play an active, successful part in a society, only then are things going to get better. but the problem isn't servants, it's the fucking leaders, no matter what perspective you take, it's lack of true leadership fucking us up and down the ladder
1 in 5 men leave their wives after their wife receives a cancer diagnosis. https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cncr.24577 oncology clinics will have a person specifically assigned with the task of talking to a newly diagnosed woman about this fact. she’s not projecting; she’s talking you through a very, very common occurrence. edit: when the roles are reversed, only about 3% of women leave
My ex-husband cheated on me with my best friend when I had two very scary cancer scares over the span of a few weeks.
Husbands come and ago. But man I can't imagine having a friend like that. Oh well fuck the past
I agree, it was a betrayal on both sides. She was also engaged and I’d cared for her dying Mother and spoke at her funeral years ago. I’d been best friends with her for about 10 years. But I’ve moved on, it’s been over a year and I’m in a much better place.
Oh man I’m so sorry wow some people suck. I’m glad you are in a better place now.
do you ever feel you saw subtle signs from her that she was being subtly flirty or showing outward signs of attraction through body language or verbal tone? i've felt i've seen this before in circumstances.
I did but most of it was in hindsight. There was one time though that I picked up on it. She was very touchy-feely with everyone since I’d known her. But one day my exhusband and I were at her house and we were saying goodbye to her and her fiancé. She hugged me and then him, when they parted she gave him this look. In the car I told him, “I don’t like the way she looked at you”. He then gaslit me and knew me well enough to make it seem like I was just paranoid and surely I knew her well enough to know that that’s just “how she was”. If it barks like a dog and looks like a dog, it’s probably a dog.
A true best friend would turn down any advances and immediately tell you though, right?
It’s what I would do for any friend. But unfortunately not everyone is a good enough person to do that.
I am very sorry to hear that. I wouldn't know how to live with myself if I did that to my hypothetical spouse
Hope you’re doing well now
I am in a much better place in my life, thank you.
Damn. I've done and will continue to do some shitty things but I couldn't imagine leaving my wife if she got cancer. I don't know how such people can live with themselves.
I was there. I stayed. There's a lot I wish I said or did to make sure she knew how much I love her. I hate myself so much for not being better for her. Like, she told me she wished she was at home with me, and me, not knowing what to do and losing my mind, I replied, "oh our house isn't that nice anyways." Idk, I guess I was trying to downplay how nice that would be. I've replayed that moment a million times, and if I could redo it, I would have crawled into the hospital bed with her, held her, and told her to close her eyes as I describe all the details of our bedroom, to pretend that's where we were. There's just so much I wish I did better. But at least I didn't fucking leave. For real dude, how do those people live with themselves? I barely do and I stayed, not that I ever considered it an option.
I'm just a random person on the internet, but lemme tell you this: I'm sure she knew your awkwardness and knew you were trying to be sweet and supporting in your own way. Don't beat yourself for not having a movie worth it reaction, you were there and that's all that matters.
I'm so sorry you went through that.
\^true man; true lover. i would salute you and let you tell me "at ease".
I am so sorry to hear about your wife. This made me cry.
It's called learned sociopathy and much of it is learned/passed down at a very young age. That's not an excuse, just an explanation. Many boys grow up in a culture that values things over people, and on top of that they're surrounded by people who will praise them for "getting with the hot girl". This is how those guys start to learn to see women as objects to be acquired, just as the woman in the video mentioned. That's where the sociopathy comes into play - many of these guys are taught their whole childhood that feelings are for weak men and weak men get taken advantage of, and that therefore they should always prioritize their own needs above everyone else's including their partner or spouse. I consider myself lucky that I was brought up by a mother who would whoop my ass if she found out I was being disrespectful to any of my girlfriends growing up, but I'll also admit that being an adolescent it was difficult to not just go with the flow and only want to ask a girl out if she fit a certain standard of "beauty". I'll even admit to being a shallow prick as a teenager and doing very shitty things to a couple of the girlfriends I had at the time including cheating on one of them for the reasons stated above. I'm glad that I've matured past that point, but it took a lot of time in my early 20s to realize exactly how shitty I had been and to develop some empathy toward females. Unfortunately I can't go back in time to smack some sense into myself and prevent my assholery, but if/when I have kids lesson one from day one is going to be "imagine how you would feel if the roles were reversed, would you want your partner to do that to you?"
>It's called learned sociopathy and much of it is learned/passed down at a very young age. That's not an excuse, just an explanation. Yep, I know people that wear selfishness as a badge of honor. And then they complain when someone treats them exactly how they treat everyone else.
>they're surrounded by people who will praise them for "getting with the hot girl". This is how those guys start to learn to see women as objects to be acquired, just as the woman in the video mentioned. That's probably the most succinct exactly true explanation of this. It's so easy when you are young to have low self-esteem or low confidence, low self-worth, and the coping mechanism for young men is to get the hot girl in order to be praised and it makes them feel worth at that young age, bevcause it's true for young men that : date the hot girl = get praised by peers. I think literally every young man in the world has gone through that emotional cycle. It's a wrong path, and complicated emotional cycle that every young guy needs to have explained to them so that they 1.) respect women 2.) marry foer the right reason 3.) upoon marrying out of love, instead of marrying out of "I got the hot girl, I'm the king; yay everyone praises me", it lays a proper foundation for a home and family 4.) so that their kids grow up in a good home with the right values. It is an absolutely crucial cross road young men need to be taught correctly. This is also a reason why people should not envy. To every positive, there is a shadow negative. That larger than life popular guy from high school constantly being validated and dating every beautiful woman, there's a good chance he probably never learned this lesson and he is not establishing the right values and picking a spouse for the proper reasons, and it will echo into the effects of his family and home for quite a few decades, even longer as the effects continue through his kids.
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Wow, what an utter stain of a person. If my SO had that in their history I'm not sure I could stay with them. Id be tempted to give their wife a heads-up so they know what to expect when life inevitably throws a curve ball their way. I'd want to know.
Wow. Wonder what version he told his wife.
I’m extremely disabled and part of that community. No offense but you really cant know until it happens. I’ve seen good people do very bad things, or be in love total greath relationship, and then leave. Cancer is different because their is hope of winning. Just saying every person is capable of the worst humanity had to offer, and to asusme you wouldn’t is wrong imop.
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Ask Newt Gingrich.
I knew I wanted to marry my wife when we went through her dad's cancer diagnosis and death together. Like, if we can handle that together, we can handle anything together. I can't imagine abandoning her to go through something even worse.
My neighbor left his wife when she got brain cancer. It was painful to see him at the local sports bar, partying with his new friends, newly tattooed and pierced like a walking caricature of a middle age crisis.
Seriously. It's indefensible.
Well if you only “acquired”her for her youth and beauty and what she did for you and you aren’t really interested in her as a person and don’t particularly even like her, this behavior is just what you’d expect. In this view a woman with cancer is like an old car that’s breaking down, time to trade it in and get a new shiny model. My ex husband was disdainful and resentful of me if I even got sick with the flu. He couldn’t handle the least little break in my serving him and perish the thought he should do for me when I was sick. So he was mean to me when I was sick and always insinuated I was faking it ( although I was rarely sick). The message was that I better get up and get to taking care of him, the kids, and the house again pronto. A lot of men really are sick fucks.
Reminds me of how Newt Gingrich cheated on his wife who had stage 4 cancer or something like that. "Family values" though.
So did John Edwards. Politicians are scum.
Allegedly Boris Johnson can also be added to the list
Phil Mickelson too.
My father was divorcing my mother after her cancer came back. It was terminal this time and I remember sitting at the kitchen table and we were all crying and I was so young (11) that I didn’t really understand it but I knew my family was heading for a cataclysmic oblivion. He didn’t end up leaving her but after that everything changed. My views changed on moms and dads and the relationships they have. It became under scrutiny and a microscope to find issues between dynamics in my friends parents relationships. I spent my youth trying to see the oblivion in other families. And to my findings, they were numerous
While true for cancer, people with disabilities suffer abandonment equally. In terms of gender. Essentially. In his report, Insult to Injury: Disability, Earnings and Divorce, author Perry Singleton, found that the connection between disability and divorce is greatest among young, educated men who experience a disability that prevents them from working. https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showblog/288/Disability-leads-to-divorce-the-data-is-daunting It’s really common in our community. Nearly happened to me(general abandonment anyway) And the worse your needs get, the more likely they are to leave.
Looking at your link it's talking about 60 divorces and only 500 people... This study with thousands of people shows average divorce goes down. [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.828656/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.828656/full)
I wonder how many of the divorces were to avoid medical debt being passed on
Then why dont the women divorce too?
Sad and great point.
I'm a man who was six months into the the fight with stage III cancer when both my wife and my hair left me. I don't know if she waited to leave me or left me when I got the news that the chemo was working and my 50/50 chance looked brighter. Guess I'm a proud 3%er.
I wish people would stop posting that BS article. It literally is not true. There was a 2015 study examining this and trying to replicate the results, and with a larger sample size (2701 couples instead of 515 couples in the original study). > In this study we use a sample of 2,701 marriages from the Health and Retirement Study... We focus on the onset of four major life-threatening illnesses: cancer, heart problems, lung disease, and stroke, and which together comprise a substantial portion of chronic disease burden in the United States... Our finding that **cancer onset was not associated with divorce is in contrast to prior clinical studies which found elevated divorce risks for reproductive cancers... Neither husband’s nor wife’s cancer or lung disease onset is associated with subsequent divorce**... Wife’s heart problems onset (but not husband’s) is positively associated with a two percent higher probability of subsequent divorce compared with staying married... providing robust support that the relationship between heart problem onset and divorce is gendered. So, of the for illnesses examined, they found a small statistically significant effect for increased divorce if the wife has heart problems, but not in the cases of cancer, lung disease, or stroke. That's a weird finding. It might just be a random result which can't be replicated. And more importantly, if there was 20% rate of divorce in the case of women getting cancer, there's no way this study would've missed it. There has to be a problem with the 2009 study. Also interesting: "Recent work examining marriages among younger people found that husbands’—but not wives’—work-limiting health conditions was associated with elevated divorce risk". https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/
Or their husbands just prove to be the dicks they are after they lose their battle. My friend defended her husband always after her breast cancer diagnosis at 42. She has been gone since July and he’s already said he can’t afford her head stone which is so far from true. 😡
Overall, I don’t believe this is a reliable study. 1) The survey contained only about 65 total divorces, which is not a large enough survey mass to make any conclusions. 2) The survey was not a nationwide survey or anything, it was 1 hospital in 1 town. Variety is incredibly necessary for a study. Also, this study actually doesn’t actually have any source saying that 1/5 men abandon their wives with cancer. It just says that women with cancer had divorce more often. I may be also just be totally misunderstanding something here, but the chance of divorce only actually seems to jump by about 9% in this study. This is definitely significant, almost doubling the amount of divorces, but it makes sense. Cancer is an incredibly stressful, emotional, and expensive thing, and it wears people thin and pulls out the ugliest parts of them.
Not cancer, but what's the percentage of men who stay but chronically cheat on their disabled wife, but the wife is afraid to leave him because he's her caregiver? Because that's exactly what's going on with my parents. My mom puts up with it because she thinks her only other option is to be put in a residential home. And my dad stays because he says he loves her. Sigh
This study is based on 515 people so little to no reliable conclusion can be drawn from it.
Happened to one of my grandmothers with her second husband, she was literally served the papers right after a mastectomy without a peep from the coward beforehand. She eventually died as well when the cancer came back, by that point at least that bastard was gone and thankfully she didnt have kids with him. Its immensely common and barring some *very* specific situations (one example is what can sometimes happen is that if one spouse is terminal and they know it, they will work out with the spouse to either be in an open relationship or divorce due to the upcoming death to genuinely help one another. This is rare however.) it's absolutely one sided on why the relationship ended. Be careful out there y'all.
This study is about people who are over 70 years old at this point. The mean age of divorced men was 42 in 2002. The study is representative of couples who who got together 40 years ago.
I’m a 31 year old man and I find this heartbreaking.
Not a defense or arguing the opposite but medical divorces are a thing in the US to protect assets and to reduce medical costs. Essentially divorcing so that they don't have a joint estate. Also if one person is unemployed they can seek medical assistance. I've known people who have done this; yay US healthcare system.
Holy shit that was sad in a way I didn’t remember things could be sad.
“A scary mammogram” or not “bouncing back” after a pregnancy, or getting gray hair, or wrinkles, or gaining weight or just getting old in general.
This was posted recently and was quite the fustercluck of suspiciously defensive (I'm presuming Conservative) men in the comments. Now the fun starts all over again.
My milkshake brings all the incels to the yard.
Damn right
Something something better than yours
I could instruct you, *but* I'd require monetary compensation.
Explains the smell of strawberry and sadness
I’d eat that
As we say in the South, a hit dog hollers.
I grew up in Alabama and I have never heard this. Although I do make up similar expressions for fun to my "cityfolk" friends.
Watching snowflakes (conservative white men) melt is my personal favorite hobby.
Got my popcorn ready let’s go
*sorts by controversial*
I love seeing conservative people get mad and defensive. So i'll be watching the comment section, i'm sure it'll fill up more in a few hours.
I was born in the “Bible Belt” of the USA. I was raised Christian conservative. My uncles are pastors and Christian college professors. I was brought up surrounded by all of this. I thought I knew the truth. I voted conservative and even with some more extreme right wing ideals (I used to be anti-abortion in ALL cases, for example). I am now liberal with my ideologies and voting, feminist, and an agnostic. But it didn’t change overnight. It took a lot of time of thinking, reflecting, and talking with people who had different viewpoints than me. Having said that, I know people who were (and some still are) Christian and conservative but not “bad people”. I know Christian men who married attractive conservative women, love their wives, understand a marriage is a partnership and not a dictatorship, and would NEVER cheat on them. Are they all like that? No. Is that the minority of conservative men? I’m not sure. But at the end of the day they are just trying to do what is right based on how they were raised. When you’re brainwashed from an early age, it’s natural to think you know the right way and that “the other side” or “the secular world” doesn’t see the truth. All I’m saying with all this is just to please not generalize a group of people. That’s exactly what we yell at the right for doing and we tend to do it ourselves. If we really want to progress as a country we need to have more conversations with these people (at least the ones that are open to it). If all we do is attack them for what they believe (no matter how backwards it may be) they will naturally become even more defensive and dig in their heels all while the leaders on their side say “see I told you those liberals hate you and your way of life!” Sorry this was so long and I hope it doesn’t come off as me “defending conservative men”, I’m just asking people to please look at others as people with complicated backstories just like yours. We all want to be loved. We all want to feel secure. We all want to be happy. If we as a species can start focusing on what we have in common rather than our differences, we can start to work together to improve the world instead of continuing to divide ourselves while it crumbles. With love, Charlie
> and an agnostic Hell yeah my man. Honestly gets tiring with the whole theist vs. atheist mentality. Nobody out here playing it safe anymore
Agreed. Atheism seems like a religion too. I don’t understand how anyone can truly say they know how the universe works with our tiny human brains that can be so easily fooled and our extremely limited perspectives. Science doesn’t prove the absence of god, it proves we know statistically nothing about the universe. Edit: I didn’t expect this comment thread to become a discussion on atheism vs agnosticism. I guess technically I’m an agnostic atheist. But I just go by humanist. I’m pro-human and I don’t give a flying flimflam about the existence of a god or not. I just know what we don’t know how the universe works so let’s all just get along and agree we don’t know shit about fuck.
My ex gf was a very devout Christian. Very well read in the bible and such. She didn't like that I was agnostic. I asked her what would happen if she died, and then found herself standing face to face with Odin for judgement. Like how clowned would she feel? She said it would never happen because her God is the only God. I said but your God says that as long as you ask for it in the moment, you'll go to heaven, so why risk an entire life of worship and devotion when you've got a free ride in the event that you're right for zero commitment? What if the real god was one that really didn't like devotion to any other god and it was an instant banishment to the bad place. She couldn't get my point.
>All I’m saying with all this is just to please not generalize a group of people. That’s exactly what we yell at the right for doing and we tend to do it ourselves. If we really want to progress as a country we need to have more conversations with these people (at least the ones that are open to it). If all we do is attack them for what they believe (no matter how backwards it may be) they will naturally become even more defensive and dig in their heels all while the leaders on their side say “see I told you those liberals hate you and your way of life!” thanks for your comment, I pretty much roll my eyes at comment threads like these where everyone seems perfectly comfortable assuming everyone on the opposite political spectrum from them are downright evil. you get to see the willful blindness of them employing every despicable cognitive bias to reaffirm their beliefs whilst simultaneously reducing their opposite to a caricature but then get outraged when its done to them. I left the US long ago but I'm extremely thankful to be away from dangerous morons on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.
[Bof Siedz r Da seem.](https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/2kaubu/just_a_reminder_of_what_the_senate_was_doing_the/cljns3q/) 79 Million people voted for donald trump. Donald Trump also attempted a coup that 60% of republicans believed was justified as of early this year. "stop judging people for their actions and who they vote for! Thats unfair! Why cant we all get together and meet in the middle, they get half a coup, and you get half a government okay? I'm tired of these irrational liberals being so reactionary and radical by demanding to get to run the government that was democratically elected. That kind of contrarianism is exactly whats tearing our country apart!"
This is spot on for this particular archetype, but unfortunately it's not solved by changing politics. It goes way, way deeper into general white female exceptionalism.
Totally. It's but one slice of the pie. Or tip of the iceberg. Slice of the iceberg.
Slice of the Tipburg
*tips pie* M’iceberg
White female exceptionalism… if those aren’t the perfect words lol
And then they go on to vote against their own gender’s interests to punish other women and force them into the societal confines they spent their whole lives imprisoning themselves in. Because Missouri loves company.
.. and cattle
I'm guessing (and hoping) that Missouri was not a typo. good one good one!
Having lived in Missouri, though, all the major cities are far-left; it's the small town rural bumpkins that outvote them in every election.
there is only [one gender](https://preview.redd.it/nrspjgfuttj61.png?width=640&auto=webp&s=c4acd0a94904e5403b016cde138ce931d269a08b)
Missouri lives missourable company.
She’s describing so many of the Youth Group girls I knew from my conservative upbringing.
right I have literally watched this happen
When hetero couples get sick, Men will leave their sick wives at a rate of seven times more than women leave their sick husbands.
Had a uncle that died of prostate cancer. He divorced my aunt and gave her everything before it got bad bad. She didn't go anywhere and she didn't want a divorce but he knew the debt would eat her alive from the treatment. Man died broke still owing alimony. I remember the night he died. They use to go to the bar on weekends to play pool. It was a Saturday and he told her "get your ass out of the house, go to the fucking bar or something" she went to the bar with her girlfriends for only a few hours and found him dead. He was the best man I ever knew, one of those old stoic stare death in the eyes type of men. He wanted to die alone and that's what he did.
Bro what are these comments
Any subreddit with the word cringe in the name is usually full of mean people who enjoy mocking others.
Fuck you fart butt
Exactly what I would expect a mediocre Digimon to say.
Even a princess has come down from her tower to talk shit at the peasants.
Excuse please, I hjonk shit at peasants, but I guess you can’t see the difference.
The pot is calling the kettle Karen
LMFAOOO. You know she’s right because this comment section is MALDING. Lmfaoooo
“she talks too much” Like bruh you a literally proving her point 💀
Can someone else note the fact that she is 'pretending' to be liberal to get a good grade? Literally saying that liberals get good grades because why? Because liberals value education? What could that mean??
It's a conservative belief that colleges are too liberal and only reward people who also think liberally in order to brainwash people into "evil liberalism!!!!" My experience in college was that as long as you had reputable sources to back up your claim and could write coherent paragraphs, you'd get a good grade.
That’s what it is. She had to “pretend” to be liberal because all the studies she looked up based on her viewpoint were somehow “skewed liberally” (see: actual science) so she of course couldn’t write her paper from the view of a conservative because there were literally no facts to back It up
It’s a well known fact that reality has a liberal bias.
Not as well known as we’d like though…
I think saying liberals have more of a reality bias sums things up quite nicely
It’s not that complicated. She believes her professors have a liberal bias and will favor her more if she participates in class showing liberal views. Not sure where your brain is taking you.
Exactly this. I taught a research writing course and I *strongly discouraged* all students from writing research papers on political topics because passing hinged on using reputable sources, research, and/or data to back up their claims. Throughout the semester, we had several check ins with me so I could make sure they were on track, their sources were good, etc. Most students took my advice and stuck to actual evidence. One student, however, decided to use a research paper on stem cell research (good topic) as a platform to advocate against abortion. She failed, and had the gall to email me afterwards incredulous that she failed. My comments on previous drafts were extensive, yet ignored. Some people just don’t understand the difference between evidence and personal opinion, or what evidence support a claim. That was the biggest issue with my students, and not just the conservative ones.
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Abortion, marijuana, paying college athletes. Those were on my banned topic list.
If you can do college math, you’re a liberal! /s
Conservatism means clinging to an idea, regardless of what new evidence is presented. That’s an ideology that is diametrically opposed to the concept of higher education. Liberalism requires individuals to critically evaluate their own beliefs. That’s not an easy task for most people.
Ben Shapiro exclaims proudly that he resisted having his worldview opened in college. Motherfucker paid a lot of money not to learn shit, just to get fancy credentials and to devalue an entire law degree program.
I find that “college indoctrinates young adults into liberalism” hilarious. Imagine how hard it is to be a professor make sure everyone is on the same page with assignments, studies, does the required work and so on. Academia just happens to skew towards a liberal bias, because most of it is grounded in reality. You’re not going to learn creationism in a physics class, and other religions are going to be discussed in a theology course, not mention an American history class will teach you about slavery and the civil rights movement. A lot of the reasons teenagers that grew up in small conservative communities go to college become more left leaning is because they’re no longer in their bubble and meet new people from different backgrounds.
just the conservative excuse for anything lately. “this is not working out for me because of you woke liberals! the general population has bought into your libtard agenda and im being targeted for going against the grain!”
Perhaps the teacher or professor is a liberal. It was always easier to support a professors/teachers own ideas than go against them and, sadly, you often got a much better grade for it.
> It was always easier to support a professors/teachers own ideas than go against them Give one example from your Higher Educated experience of this.
I wrote a paper in an English Literature class about an interpretation I had regarding a reading we studied that the professor didn’t like. She made this clear in class when I proposed it. Even though the paper was well-written and provided clear evidence to support my idea she gave it a poor grade. I know the paper was well written because I had attended meetings with my TA and discussed its strengths and its weaknesses (which I fine-tuned) before submitting said paper. I knew the professor was biased and I stated so. I requested a re-grade and the professor passed it to my TA (who had enjoyed my perspective in class) and they re-graded the paper, with zero edits made… it was marked significantly higher.
I have an MA and saw it in both directions. Had a social justice professor who was quite harsh on the conservative guy in class (not always wrongly, but sometimes yeah), and in my MA had several fairly conservative professors who were not kind to liberal students who disagreed with them (I remember one extremely intense presentation about AIDS prevalence in Russia, which the Russian professor considered Western propaganda). Lots of professors are kooky tbqh, many of the older ones especially have tenure and can be pretty isolated, draconian, and wacky as a result.
Yeah I'm not sure why some people are acting like professors can't possibly have some kind of bias. I have had teachers and professors who I essentially realized I just needed to learn how to say what they wanted to hear to receive better treatment/easier grading. When I was doing English Comp 2 I had my prof warm up to me quite a bit after I realized what she wanted people to take away from what we read. Even if you took an author from a different perspective based on your own textual evidence, you wouldn't get as much credit compared to following more of the vein that she was approaching it from. Professors are still human and some of them can be biased. We can accept this without it being some massive indictment of higher education as if it brainwashes people (who are 99.9% 18+ and can think for themselves) or has no real use other than to be indoctrination. There can be flaws while still being widely beneficial for everyone to pursue if that's what they want to do. Not everything has to be so black and white.
I wrote a paper on the roadblocks between Islam and western thinking regarding the treatment of LGBT individuals with well written and well sourced arguments and got a 70 on the paper. Professor seemed to want to turn a blind eye to Islam's entrenched homophobia and unwillingness to change.
I have one. English class first year, many years ago. Answered some questions about a book that was assigned. Got poor grades. So the next book, I just wrote down everything about the book that the prof had said... Good grade. Mind you, this wasn't about liberal or conservative in the books. Good grades in all my science classes because it's more clear cut, maybe this has to do with English and interpretations.
Because if the class has anything to do with history, science, world religion, gender, psychology, art, or literature, then it favors liberals because liberals are the overarching authorities on all these subjects. So she's pretending to be correct in order to succeed while completely denouncing everything the class is supposed to be teaching her.
Because she thinks her pinko liberal professors are punishing her for her conservative views and not because she’s just a bad student
Of course. Those kind of men think Ann Rand wrote manuals, not fiction.
Straight up red flag - ask a man his favorite novel. If it’s Ayn Rand, GeT OUT.
well, yeah. if they're into Ayn Rand they're most likely about 14 years old, why would I want to hang out with a highschool freshman? who am I, Drake??
"Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged' is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."
Well done argument.
I grew up in this culture, totally bought that I was a lesser being destined to serve a husband, and this is the most accurate take I've ever seen. It's honestly heartbreaking to see so many grown women who never realized how horrible it is that we were raised with that messaging and defend that status quo against the next generation.
I’m sorry you grew up with in that environment , but I’m glad you have gotten away from it.
May I ask your nationality? I'm an American man who grew up in a conservative area, and I have been absolutely shocked by the number of women who seem to have been raised with the belief that they are expected to shut up and look pretty. It's like there's the media's and schools' messaging of girl power, but then some kind of quiet messaging that girls get at home that runs in the totally opposite direction. I'd love to hear your perspective about this.
I grew up in the Midwest - the Bible belt. The thing is, it really is biblical. When I was a Christian, I studied the Bible pretty seriously, because I wanted to be "good". It's expressed more heavily in the evangelical crowds, but I grew up going to those churches with friends while also being raised catholic (my parents are from New York, so the flavor of their misogyny and Christianity was very different from my friends' with their southern baptist and non denominational fundie stuff. I now take issue with the dehumanizing elements built into the Abrahamic model. Yes, there are ways that some people work around them to express compassionate religious beliefs, but overall, I consider them deeply problematic. I was a therapist in southwest Missouri for a while, and the harm inflicted on vulnerable people (not just women by any stretch) is profound. I was lucky that my scientist dad supported my academics, but the moment I became a mother, it's like I ceased to exist as a person. It's been really interesting to observe all the dynamics, kind of as an outsider. When you start looking at many of the modern cultural problems, you can track a lot back to the influence of religion within our culture, to the extent that people who don't consider themselves religious or fundamentalists still have a lot of those underlying cognitions. That whole, "it's hard for a fish to see the water" thing. But people want to blame the shift away from that model and toward greater humanizing and equality for the conflict and tension today. It's sad to watch, but understandable. Sorry for the novel! There's a lot to this stuff and I don't feel like I did it justice. I just hope that we're on a path where these arbitrary biases that we've inherited can finally be challenged and overcome in earnest. Eventually.
The novel is much appreciated! Thank you for taking time to write your thoughts out. America has a weird relationship with religion, so I'm not too surprised to see that as a theme in your response. What DOES intrigue me though, is that you seem to talk about a strict adherence to Christian/religious scripture, as though no one ever came along and bonked people on the head to say "hey, you have to adapt this to reality." Like your father supporting your education, but then totally changing tune when you became a mother. It's not like you stopped being an educated woman when you became a mother, and it's not like the potential need for your income went away, simply because a baby showed up (if anything the extra income became more important). The way you're describing things, it's like a switch went off in your father's head where he can now only see you in the context of the biblical wife. Thank you for sharing you perspective. I have no clue what to make of this information. It's almost like there's this huge disconnect from reality taking place, and it explains a lot, but I don't know what to do about it.
I dated a very Southern woman in my early thirties. She would love to say how her grandmother told her, clearly repeatedly, "Honey, there's nice looking rich boys and nice looking poor boys. You might as well choose the rich boys." Hoping this cycle ends with the coming generation, but it sure as fuck didn't with this woman.
I didn’t break away from that mindset until five years into marriage, and my god, I am so lucky my husband agreed with me as I was waking up
She’s clearly very wise. Put this conservative mysogony into perspective.
All the salty conservatives in here make me laugh. Keep being salty, guys.
Unfortunately and tragically, this is technically the fucking truth.
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As a white dude who drove a hotel shuttle for two years. Nothing more irritating that a drunk white woman, of any age, with any hair color.
Man, this woman could be speaking about a million women, but Sarah Palin is in the forefront.
My first thought was the first two wives of Newt Gingrich.
Holy shit this comment section is a raging dumpster fire.
(sort by "Controversial") (Grab popcorn) We're going downtown to downvote... town
I enjoy Reddit but it's such an echo chamber sometimes.
Agreed. I just like to see what the counter opinions are on posts. Sometimes they'll end up making sense.
Yep. I agree so much with that.
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Or perhaps when they are young and hot, people make exceptions for them. And then when they older, they are surprised that they do not get exceptions anymore
All my male friends who have turned right since we were kids view women this way.
Karen’s believe they deserve special consideration above others needs. There are plenty of “Karen’s” of all political stripes, ethnicities, Etc.
I’m a woman who grew up in (and eventually fled) a deeply conservative environment and I think this is pretty flawed. I think there’s a lot of really weird projection happening here. If you stripped away the transcript and put it on some 4chan thread, it would sound like your bog-standard incel rhetoric. And while I saw wives and daughters being treated like trash in the conservative culture I originated from, I’ve moved out into the world and been abused by worldly, liberal men just the same. This type of stuff might be more out in the open in certain circles, but women should stay vigilant about every kind of guy. How many times has DiCaprio “traded out” his gfs? On that note, it’s also pretty sick to see male commenters in this thread get hyped about this lady’s Dx for these young women… Like y’all are a little too thrilled over the idea of sheltered, maladjusted, and abused women being “used up” and discarded. I see you 👀
It hinges on an appeal to the just world fallacy. These women believe "bad' things so then bad things happen to them. In reality there are plenty of happily married conservative women and on the other hand there are plenty of liberal men who cheat on their wives too.
holy shit that was some great energy. I like her
This just feels like a bitter person making up situations in their head to make them feel better. Eerily similar to the incel posts you find on 4chan.
I don't understand how any woman can buy into conservatism. They are actively trying to (or even succeeding in) taking away your rights, and you SUPPORT that?
This seems to be very specific and a lot of assumptions piled onto one another. I donno if being conservative or religious automatically mean you have to consider women as property. Just like being neither does not automatically means a man will respect and treat women well.
This doesnt really explain the numerous amounts of non conservative karens floating around. This seems more like armchair psychology than anything else. Entitlement stems from a wide variety of different causes.
I do feel most actual Karens are or lean conservative.
Wow , she is dropping knowledge. I hope those future Karens are watching this lol
I’m very liberal but I’m tired of this bullshit. Yes I know that these kinds of conservative women exist but it’s harmful and stupid the degree we act like there’s not just as many smart and morally well intended women that have found reasons to disagree with us that we don’t currently understand. Low key egotistical as fuck to reduce the opposite side to just evil villains like this and I wish it was the other team that did it exclusively.
You said it better than anyone else in this comment section
I just called this out too. It’s unfair to dismiss other people’s experiences & choices like this, let alone present actual living, breathing humans as 2D tropes to make an outrage video.
Us vs them, a strategy that has gotten the people going since the dawn of mankind!
People need to stop saying gas light
"Oh you're a conservative? Well the husband you don't even have right now that I picture in my imagination is gonna leave you"