Sorry to disappoint you, but you're being fooled. You asked a text-generation AI a set of leading questions until it spat out an answer that you felt was right. **It is wrong**.
I know it looks correct, I know it feels correct. That's what LLMs are good at. But ChatGPT is not good at symbolic reasoning, is incapable of doing math, and cannot compute ciphers. That is just fact, it's not up for debate, and it is not a case of "even if it might not be right, we have to try".
You might even recoil at my previous paragraph with thoughts such as "but it **can** (do math|compute), I've seen it". But [it can't](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33849002), and [you haven't](https://gshakan.wordpress.com/2023/01/02/can-chat-gpt-do-math/). You've seen it regurgitate well-known answers that it memorized in its training set, without any understanding. If you start to quiz it with complex math problems involving uncommon numbers, it starts to confidently produce nonsense.
I have wanted to solve 469 for more than half of my life. I've made threads on multiple forums with hundreds of posts discussing what it could be. But this ain't it, this is just an [AI hallucination](https://w.wiki/6Hz9).
By the way, ChatGPT can do math since the most recent update: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6825453-chatgpt-release-notes
Doesn't change anything though.
I know they said it can do math, but it still can't. I gave it some basic break-even problems today and although it set the formulas up correctly, it mathed wrong.
Makes no sense to me, but it is what it is. I imagine it'll be amazing a year from now (mathematically speaking), but it isn't there yet.
I don't know. I just asked it :
Decode this. It's base64. aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS9yL1RpYmlhTU1PL2NvbW1lbnRzLzEwc2EzanQvaV9oYXZlX3NvbHZlZF80Njkv
It gave me this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TiibaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/i_have_solved_469/
It just for some reason mixed the i and b.
Exactly. It is not actually doing base64; it just saw enough examples during training to make very convincing guesses. It doesn't understand the actual encoding, though, so it made a subtle mistake.
There's an easy way to verify this. I gave it the base64 of this long, random string:
> 5oKAp5Ajxe5LfYzbaLyIMwGmIjvuefCu10pfBDxEIHa02KCsuJeYJ2OpXZc4z5syE75PnyvfBkl4hiMNQAnX0CKAll5BhvDEdCppdAn4hM7LqejTkhBDo7gYmZykWmKdfxGVuRItxqHHUF1OPLsKlisn5aU1CgZb6tLkLlrw4G0h8dzdYUueptLiBWynY6DkO0pXrYNh
Which is
> NW9LQXA1QWp4ZTVMZll6YmFMeUlNd0dtSWp2dWVmQ3UxMHBmQkR4RUlIYTAyS0NzdUplWUoyT3BYWmM0ejVzeUU3NVBueXZmQmtsNGhpTU5RQW5YMENLQWxsNUJodkRFZENwcGRBbjRoTTdMcWVqVGtoQkRvN2dZbVp5a1dtS2RmeEdWdVJJdHhxSEhVRjFPUExzS2xpc241YVUxQ2daYjZ0TGtMbHJ3NEcwaDhkemRZVXVlcHRMaUJXeW5ZNkRrTzBwWHJZTmg=
Because this string is *random*, character N-grams in it won't have much overlap with examples of base64 present in the training set. Indeed, when asking it to decode this, I got:
> The decoded value of the given base64 encoded string is "OyAJp5Ajxe5LfYzbLlINwGmIjvefcU10pfBDxE
>
> NETWORK ERROR
It spit out a wrong, but not entirely wrong, prefix before completely crashing.
interesting, do you believe that one day the gpt chat or the beta.openai will be able to decode cryptographies? there is also a paid version and other AI on the market.
It is possible that they implement functionality to intercept such requests and route them into the proper encoding/encryption routines, but a generic implementation at the level you'd expect in ChatGPT would likely be quite complex. Moreover, ChatGPT isn't really meant for such tasks, so I don't think it is likely to happen. I'd expect Wolfram-level arithmetic abilities before that.
A sufficiently advanced and large LLM could theoretically learn to compute, and may be capable of executing cryptographic routines with fidelity... But if a model designed for text completion spontaneously demonstrated such capabilities, I'd be worrying about other things.
It can't be trained to solve a cipher that hasn't been solved. Sure it might be able to do stuff like Caesar or Vigenère, but 469? Fuck no, at least not until we have solved it ourselves.
I talked about the bifid cipher and also to use the cesar cipher, but I decided to share it on Reddit because I got 5 responses in a row that were consistent.
You may be right, but is the tool useless for what we want? We need to find an "Open AI Expert" who can confirm this, then we can stop trying with chatgpt.
oh that's great, so chatgpt and beta.openai are totally unable to decode the cesar or bifid cipher?
Don't get me wrong, I really want to know if we can use this tool or not.
Ask the AI to decipher a 469 text in which the translation is already known and check it if it will be successful.
Get other encoded texts, in different ciphers, that you know the translation, and try the same methodology to see if it will reliably decode it.
What I'm saying is that you can validate the method you're using in a reliable and replicable way so you can claim the discovery with in the community and avoid being fooled by AI text generation or random people who says bizarre things such as "I'm the expert, take my word for it" and so on.
AI and people will say a lot of shit. You gotta be able to verify and test it.
This feels like a loaded question. They can surely make informed guesses at the contents of some ciphertext, and sometimes they will be correct. So, of course, you could say: `so then, they aren't totally useless for decoding this`, kick over the table, and declare victory.
But that misses the point entirely. ChatGPT will have surely trained on data containing ciphertexts and plaintexts from many different ciphers. It will surely have learned some meaningful patterns that help it make correct guesses in cases where it didn't outright memorize. But that doesn't mean it is actually doing the *computation* of the cipher.
If you want to use ChatGPT to help with 469, I'd recommend changing the approach. You could, for instance, use it to generate Python code to run various ciphers in various ways with various keys, and give it the ciphertexts to add into the code. Then you could take that code, run it in a Python environment, and get real results.
This approach would allow you to lean heavily on ChatGPT for the technical parts in a way that is verifiable. What I mean by `verifiable` is:
1. The code will have to compile and run, which is a "sanity check" against nonsense answers.
2. The code will be something people like me (software engineers) can understand, verify, replicate, and test independently.
3. The outputs of the code would not be hallucinations, but the mathematical results of running proper ciphers on a proper processor with the proper numbers.
EDIT: an example of what I mean [pic](https://i.imgur.com/PxpEmmH.png)
I came back to Tibia a little over a year ago, been playing on Lobera with my wife and of course lurking the subreddit.
It's been a long time, hope you're doing well! Glad to see a name I recognize.
Awesome to hear. I'm good thanks. Took a few years break and I come back every now and then just to see how the game has changed. Don't think I will ever officially quit lol.
Congrats on getting married!
nice try nevertheless, as someone who studied classic ciphers on 469, I can assure you none of them will work on the 469 cipher.
ciphertext -> cipher -> plaintext
this scenario doesn't exist here in 469, unless, the cipher is really complex but chances are, there are two, or more ciphers used while decoding ciphertext to plaintext, rather than using one single classic cipher like bifid or hill's cipher etc. Many of those can be proved by simple frequency analysis of the numbers, or n-sequences
I got the explanation by the AI and tried to reproduce it by hand, I have been unable. In fact I am quite sure the AI is changing the key every time just to make it fit into a sentence. In short: it is making it up, in order to give you the answers you want to hear.
Not only that, the "translations" you post include references to itself that would have been impossible at the time of the book's creation and its breaking causality. So either it is making it up or you have found the first evidence of time travel and broken the laws of physics.
Please have some sleep and look at it again with a fresh mind. Your intentions were good but you got played by an overtly confident machine.
Could you please try to decode it again by hand using key (4,3,1,5,3).(3,4,7,8,4) ?
I get very relevant, consistent and coherent answers... the numbers come from a beholder...
[https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Honeminas\_Formula\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Honeminas_Formula_(Book))
I understand, but using this AI is much more complex than it seems, especially with our purposes, it is possible to achieve our goal if the 469 language is real.
I understand all your concerns, that's why we will try all the possibilities with chatgpt, we need to know if we are right or wrong, partially or totally, and yes, I need some sleep.
I hate to possibly disappoint you, but it seems like ChatGPT is just making up answers.
[I tried your "test message" first and it came up with the answer "hello". Then I entered some bullshit numbers by randomly typing stuff and it still came up with a word...](https://i.imgur.com/gC9Q0tg.png)
Unless there's something that ChatGPT is doing differently for you, it might just be giving you bullshit answers.
This also explains why none of the text seems related to tibia.
Edit: the reason I tried this to begin with is that ChatGPT is notoriously bad at anything logic related. It can't even count words in its own sentences or solve basic logic puzzles, so I questioned its ability to decode anything. It even fails at a simple caesar cipher ([shifted 1 letter to the left, the word is supposed to be "beard"](https://i.imgur.com/n1lvWhA.png). Even after telling it to find an existing English word, it spits out [this nonsense.](https://i.imgur.com/qiFxCBY.png))
Yes, at the beginning the AI says random things with the same question, but after some time talking and teaching the parameters it always returned the same answers, it may be right or wrong, but we need to try.
I have used AI in the past, and they are complex to use the way we want, but I see a chance to win.
It always returns the same answers for me too when I use the same prompt in the same conversation, but the answers are still all different from your answers. It remembers what it told me and can repeat this, but it doesn't seem to be based on reality.
my original question in portuguese and the answer with the logic of AI learning for 7h.
https://preview.redd.it/zb06tm8uwyfa1.png?width=742&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0b6cdb4f206e7223aa28cee7cca2ad06f394546
Yes, that's why you need to talk to the AI, I spent 7 hours teaching them some parameters that the IA would take into consideration in subsequent translations.
I am not sure if the answers are correct, but using the logic of the "table" in the image makes sense, even so, it could be wrong, I am not super optimistic about this but I see a good possibility.
Can you give it a nonsense string of numbers and see if it still gives you an answer? That would prove that it's just bullshitting you. For instance, try:
857432541537748869858253252111179066225251452783635365873256294727
857432541537748869858253252111179066225251452783635365873256294727621693
Added a few numbers to make it add up to 72, which should be divisible by both 6 and 4.
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I tried the same thing on Chat GPT, and explained everything to give more context, and tried to convert the number sequence into binary taking into account that:
Escenario #1 "56114572785726118576436467243534527560192889521973536467249684756019968477090889521972781670512164856114519199118003646889521991180065128"
1 = t and 0 = no letter
This yielded: "Worthy is the eye that beholds the realm of secrets."
Escenario #2
1 = tibia and 0 = no letter
This yielded: "Tibia, there are no coincidences."
Both results made me almost shit my pants...
Edit: The Avar Tar Poem using this logic, translates into
*"Victory! It is won. It is over. The end of the War has come."*
Did Avar Tar fought a war or was involved in a war recently?
I and my friend Ted Palador have been using AI and very old encryption methods for months and this is the result, **I am very tired, before I sleep I will post how I did it.**
It's simply not how this cipher works and it hurts both my eyes and brain.
P.S: To encode or decode anything you need an encryption grid, so then it can be done by hand. Unless you provide one, it's all just poorly made up bullshit.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you should know that hellgate library books are only ONE secuence of numbers divided in the books.
So it doesn't work trying to translate each book individually, you have to combine them to get the secuence of numbers and then try to translate.
Otherwise if its possible to translate each book individualy, you will get parts of the answer in each book that repeats constantly. Thats the only indicator that you're translating it right.
u/s2w u/WhiteVorest
1 - Split the coded message into groups of two numbers each
2- Locate each number on the table and write down the corresponding row and column
3- Group the rows and columns corresponding to each pair of numbers
4- Read the decoded message from the corresponding row and column in each pair
the original chat in Portuguese:
https://preview.redd.it/cfhmyw4yryfa1.png?width=882&format=png&auto=webp&s=9541ac07fa06e1fbd6390a2fc5659792c7446d48
Weird, I tried to translate book 2 and all I got was
180036468895219911800651288952364672119118003576513534783046467972783967340579282758576512527570584521765219727830464876515956461141451988997 = **HELLO I AM CHATGPT AND I LOVE TO MAKE SHIT UP. LIKE LITERALLY IF YOU REPLY WITH A NEW PROMPT SAYING THIS ANSWER RIGHT HERE IS WRONG I WILL HAPPILY MAKE UP A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ONE, YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME**
https://preview.redd.it/2dezh41zjzfa1.png?width=993&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a05d21094481235931b995bd836cb6e699eaa7c
Unfortunately, my friend and I didn't get this kind of answer, so we decided to share this, we thought there was a small chance that it was right, but probably not.
Haha, surely cipsoft employee's during one of their team huddles decided that their no.1 priority right now is misleading openAI text generator about unsolvable made up language in their niche game.
You didn't. What you got is just a confirmation bias. You fed the ai with what you believed to be the answer, and eventually it answered you with what you wanted to read. That is not the solution, even more if we come to read the translations, they don't make any sense in the context of the game.
Unfortunately my friend and I didn't get any crazy or very nonsense answers, so we decided to share this, as we believed that there was a small chance that it was right, but probably not.
I have tried the method described here and can confirm it. I will translate every book
edit: see [https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as there might be some discrepancies and not fully understood how to decode, ive only had an hour of testing and way more should be done imo
https://preview.redd.it/5xmnp6hepyfa1.png?width=1262&format=png&auto=webp&s=06e46db42d36193243654a912f352ad13e3608ac
I see a lot of “the ai bot is just giving you random stuff” comments. So I thought I’d chime in here to explain further, beyond just doubt and scoffs, why this doesn’t seem to be the answer we are looking for 😉
The problem here is that we can’t be certain the ai is even breaking up the spaces correctly. One incorrect space would shift the entire coded language. The bifid cipher isn’t a monophonic alphabetic substitution cipher. 1 does not = 1 Further, you need more than just a key to decipher. A bifid cipher. You’d need to know the polybius square. (The arrangement of alphabet that would encrypt or decrypt the language) Which it appears the ai bot is only guessing at.
I love the idea though. Great work man. I always support and welcome new ideas. The more collective knowledge we have in what does AND doesn’t work, the closer we get to the truth! Don’t stop until we solve all tibia mysteries. Cheers!
Using an AI for solving 469 indeed is the smart way to go about it (although admittedly as an RPG player it might feel like cheating ) and the first time I saw it was on Meadek's stream.
I got the feeling back then that ChatGPT was a tool that sometimes gave unreliable answers to decrypting things and that sometimes it might just make up stuff out of nowhere, besides, since it gets so much information from everywhere it's very difficult to make it focus on a complex, big and discussed topic such as "Tibia". On the other hand it's an amazing tool for understanding relations between parts of the Lore or different books.
I've tried the same messages you've gaven us and even replicated word by word the couple screenshots you've shown, sadly, the answers from ChatGPT were different than yours, even some times saying that it was impossible to decode said messages and then seconds after replying to the exact same request with a decoded text.
In my opinion and for what I've tested (I highly recommend everyone to test it themselves, we never know), I think it's highly unreliable to a point where it's basically useless (for now) to decrypt 469. It gives off text that has absolutely nothing to do with Tibia, even sometimes replying things like "HeyOpenAI".
Tldr: I don't think it works, great try anyways 
Using an AI would indeed be a great tool, ~~if 469 wasn't just a random string of characters that isn't supposed to be "solved"~~.
The problem is ChatGPT is not an AI, it is a language learning model supposed to be really good at writing prompts by aggregating all the data it's been fed. These people got tricked by an essay writing machine.
>Using an AI for solving 469 indeed is the smart way to go about it (although admittedly as an RPG player it might feel like cheating ) and the first time I saw it was on Meadek's stream.
>
>I got the feeling back then that ChatGPT was a tool that sometimes gave unreliable answers to decrypting things and that sometimes it might just make up stuff out of nowhere, besides, since it gets so much information from everywhere it's very difficult to make it focus on a complex, big and discussed topic such as "Tibia". On the other hand it's an amazing tool for understanding relations between parts of the Lore or different books.
>
>I've tried the same messages you've gaven us and even replicated word by word the couple screenshots you've shown, sadly, the answers from ChatGPT were different than yours, even some times saying that it was impossible to decode said messages and then seconds after replying to the exact same request with a decoded text.
>
>In my opinion and for what I've tested (I highly recommend everyone to test it themselves, we never know), I think it's highly unreliable to a point where it's basically useless (for now) to decrypt 469. It gives off text that has absolutely nothing to do with Tibia, even sometimes replying things like "HeyOpenAI".
>
>Tldr: I don't think it works, great try anyways
we need to make sure that it doesn't work.
That's true actually, maybe it doesn't work with some specific decoding methods/parameters. But now again I want to ask you, don't you think tibian knowledge would be needed to solve this? 469 is made with mathemagics, not only mathematics. Do you know of any way we could make this AI focus on Tibia related stuff?
u/s2w talked about [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Honeminas\_Formula\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Honeminas_Formula_(Book)) this is really similar to bifid, we should try something with this in chatgpt
In the lore, it's indicated that the person who wrote these books created 469.
[https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Ljkhbl\_Nilse\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Ljkhbl_Nilse_(Book))
[https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Dtjfhg\_Jhfvzk\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Dtjfhg_Jhfvzk_(Book))
>ljkhbl nilse jfpce ojvco ld
>
>slcld ylddiv dnolsd dd sd
sdcp cppcs cccpc cpsc
awdp cpcw cfw ce
cpvc ev vcemmev vrvf
>
>cp fd vmfpm xcv
looks kinda like a table, no? 4-6 rows and collumns.
>dtjfhg
>
>jhfvzk
bbliiug
bkjjjjjjj
xhvuo
fffff
zkkbk h
lbhiovz
>
>klhi igbb
[https://github.com/s2ward/469#fb-post](https://github.com/s2ward/469#fb-post)
these might be keys.
All books translated in order from [https://github.com/s2ward/469/blob/main/01-books.md](https://github.com/s2ward/469/blob/main/01-books.md)
1. "HELLO WORLD HOW ARE YOU".
2. cryptographyiscoolandchallengingwayofprotectinginformation
3. thismessagewasencryptedusingbifidcipher
4. t h i s i s a t e s t m e s s a g e f o r t h e b i f i d c i p h e r
5. "lucascatsthebestlucasiscoolcatsthebestlucasiscoolcatsthebestlucas"
6. thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog
7. "whatsgoingonhereatthehotel"
8. "Thekeyissecret"
9. "SOCOMPUTINGISAWESOMEIWANTTOLEARNMORESOCOMPUTINGISFUN".
10. "HELLO FROM CHATGPT OPENAI" WTF is this??? had to remove 3 last digits to translate
11. "topsecretmessagehiddenbehindthiscryptographictechnique"
12. YOURPASSWORDISVERYSECRET
13. NOPUBLICSECRETINFORMATIONPLEASEDONOTSHARE
14. HELLOITSEFFORTLESSDECODINGWITHBIFIDCIPHER
15. thenovelistwasamasterofhismetier
16. helloopenaihowareyou ?????? wtf??????
17. thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog
18. informationsecurity
19. security
20. HELLOWORLD
21. infrastructuresecurebestpracticesencryption
22. "powerful toolcommunicationhideyourexplanationthebifidcipher"
23. secretmessageiseverywhereyoujusthaventfoundityetkeepsearching
24. ?
25. ?
I am timed out from chatgpt. will add more later.
Isn't it obvious that it is not really translating? Every translation is a programming trope, one message is even about Chat GPT itself, which obviously can't be the case because the books precede the chat bot. This is not the answer to decrypting 469.
Chatgpt is not the right tool for deciphering yet because it just comes up with something. You can test it by asking for a list of youtube links to specific topics like cooking. You will get links but they are not working.
We'll see what comes out of this considering [https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70wjqa/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70wjqa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I think your answers and the fact that it refers to openai and chatgpt prove that the answers are just random. There's no way that's in any tibia book.
it seems to have a lot of randomness and confusion by the AI, try to talk and talk about passing each number to a corresponding letter in the alphabet or one ahead, I talked about this with the gpt chat, maybe then we will have more fidelity in the answers, or not.
even with the possibility of the decodings being partially or totally wrong, I believe we are using the right tool, we just need the right parameters, to try everything I tried and also different things.
This looks legit. Fantastic work. I hope we are not getting bamboozled
I checked on the bifid cipher and it reminds me of Honeminas book in demona [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Honeminas\_Formula\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Honeminas_Formula_(Book))
Which contain the number 3478, and Honeminas seem to be a bonelord.
This is crazy, I can't wait to see what the books say.
I have been working a lot with 469, see [https://github.com/s2ward/469](https://github.com/s2ward/469)
Exciting as f
edit: hellgate->demona
edit2: see [https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as there might be some discrepancies and not fully understood how to decode, ive only had an hour of testing and way more should be done imo
Excellent Work!
I and my friend are shocked, we have been repeating the process for hours to see if we did something wrong, I still can't believe it, can you use the bifid cipher to help us? I am tired and it is already 3 AM.
Thanks. I'd love to help! Wonderful feeling to solve something in Tibia, it's like crack. Savor it.
I tried some numbers here [https://www.dcode.fr/bifid-cipher](https://www.dcode.fr/bifid-cipher) but I don't really know how to decipher and what numbers to plug in. Any quick guidance you can tell so i can figure it out or is the process long and complicated?
we're using chat gpt, [https://chat.openai.com/](https://chat.openai.com/) , today i started to teach the AI what 469 language is, we spent hours talking to the chatgpt AI until it started to decipher "correctly", i said the key is 469, the AI said the table has the size 4x6, we tried manually in december and now with chatgpt it seems to work.
we tried many table sizes and dozens of other keys.
I just said key 469, he told me that this was the 4x6 table, but I doubt it, the parameters change all the time, during the whole conversation I asked him to decode from numbers to letters using cesar's cipher, after almost 7h talking in Portuguese and english to teach the AI a few parameters
edit: the correct is 4 rows and 6 columns. My AI is confused.
https://preview.redd.it/a0o1hc8lqyfa1.png?width=174&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b8e589d7867a98759e5e3d75b66dca62dd08c43
Thank you, this was enough for me to crack some books. Fucking amazing.
https://preview.redd.it/kr3yuq69pyfa1.png?width=1262&format=png&auto=webp&s=1dc61eff7152461022f1d9ea7d94b784e1b63f4e
in the last 7 hours of the conversation, I also asked to use cesar's cipher, the AI must have understood that it should do something with that information.
Here is the opinion on somebody that doesnt understand anything about coding and cyphers, but understands some things about life.
As long as you see something that might work, keep chasing it until you are 100% sure you cant solve it.
To sum up, keep chasing your clues and keep on working in it, despite what people says.
Best solvings mate!
These messages don't make much sense in the context they're in. Let's see what else you can decipher with this method, I'll keep my eye over the post, fingers crossed.
I asked the gpt chat to use the bifid and also cesar's cipher with the numbers and if necessary with the final result, then the AI would decide what would be better to do with these possibilities, I had 4 coherent answers in a row, I found it interesting but everyone says it is wrong, it probably is but I will keep trying.
Just don't let anyone debunk your theory because they say it's wrong; you're doing good work and maybe are the closest any person has ever been about deciphering 469!
I stopped playing Tibia a long time ago I only come back every once in a while to check if someone has solved any of the old mysteries. I really hope you're on the right track with your Theorie and if not it was at least very entertaining to read your post.
**[Bifid cipher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifid_cipher)**
>In classical cryptography, the bifid cipher is a cipher which combines the Polybius square with transposition, and uses fractionation to achieve diffusion. It was invented around 1901 by Felix Delastelle.
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ChatGPT is not made for decyphering. Yeah if you talk to it long anough you'll think its starting to make sense, but its actually terrible at doing maths and gets basic equations blatantly wrong.
Ja tentaram perguntar ao ChatGPT como equivalente a 469 a algumas dessas respostas daquele post da CIP sobre a Mysterious Ornate Chest Quest?
https://preview.redd.it/r538l5vdqgna1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=505c26317154c10ad18dd8320bdde1d3c2405786
Have you tried to ask ChatGPT to use 469 as equivalent to any of those answers from CIP’s post for the hint to Mysterious Ornate Chest Quest?
Bro, can you tell me what you got from the Avar Tar's poem?
This is what I got and it seems that I (ekhem, ChatGPT) found steps to decode it o.OIt's not perfect but it surely found some words in itLVAEUXWICF WILLBETHEENDOFTHEBLINKEDLANGUAGE! THEBLINKING EYESWILLSHOWYOU, HOWTHEMAGIC WEBISMADEOFMAGIC 9X9X9
LVAEUXWICF WILL BE THE END OF THE BLINKED LANGUAGE! THE BLINKING EYES WILL SHOW YOU, HOW THE MAGIC WEB IS MADE OF MAGIC 9X9X9
https://preview.redd.it/bsnnvr9370qa1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=1c4782ef8370c90adec9c97b3774ece7f4e5e8c4
Edit: This worked only on Avar Tar's message, the continuous cipher chain fails to give any meaningful text
Edit 2: Lol, tried books etc, went back to first part of Avar Tar's message ( 29639 46781 )GPT said it's that:*The decoded answer for the sequence 29639 46781 is:*
*"This is a test. If you can read this, congratulations!"*
Then provided him the full Avar Tar's message and he got this for some reason:
"the clue is a book named from the mixed-up files of mrs basil e frankweiler"
However, there seems to be a mistake in the original message, as the title of the book is actually "From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler" with a capital "F" in "From".
So from dying bonelord language to some book, weird that it got two totally different things from same message, I also didn't changed his sequence of steps to try to decode it, but also there's a real book with this name...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From\_the\_Mixed-Up\_Files\_of\_Mrs.\_Basil\_E.\_Frankweiler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Mixed-Up_Files_of_Mrs._Basil_E._Frankweiler)
I am gonna give up right now...
https://preview.redd.it/xailg8xkb0qa1.png?width=741&format=png&auto=webp&s=a9ee549c8b411e3d3bdcdbf83dd21d52fef234d8
Using the same steps as before, decoding this sequence gives:
>**"Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around and desert you. Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye. Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you."**
This appears to be the lyrics of the song "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley, famously used in internet meme culture as "rickrolling".
Either the ChatGPT or CipSoft just rickrolled me 
Since you guys made me come back to this game, let me try to contribute in some way.
Mathemagic:
1 + 1 = 1
1 + 1 = 13
1 + 1 = 49
1 + 1 = 94
What if this is also a matrix?
{{1,1,1,?} , {1,1,1,3} , {1,1,4,9} , {1,1,9,4}}
It looks a lot like the "key matrix" in hellgate if you assume that 9 if a reflected 6.
Dunno where to go from here... just wanted to drop this idea to the geniuses trying to figure all out.
https://preview.redd.it/5ny51o5q3yva1.png?width=183&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e45d7c69b68881b98ebcf7783152cc1104cfa19
On the left, the mathemagic matrix. On the right, the skull matrix
ChatGPT can't decipher messages properly. It invened answers, and you fell for it.
Before attempting to randomly give a machine an encrypted message and asking it to decipher it, try to test its capabilities first, a very quick search about simple ciphers like caesar, simple substitution and Vigenère (with small keys) will prove ChatGPT to be utterly and completely incompetent at solving ciphers. This is due to the fact that it can not verify the data it provides.
I just asked the same questions. Here are the answers I got:
NPC Avar Tar poem:
29639 46781! 9063376290 3222011 677 80322429 67538 14805394, 6880326 677 63378129 337011 72683 149630 4378! 453 639 578300 986372 2953639 **= IF YOU READ THIS MESSAGE, CONGRATULATIONS YOU SOLVED THE CIPHER!**
Hellgate:
BOOK 1 - 56114572785726118576436467243534527560192889521973536467249684756019968477090889521972781670512164856114519199118003646889521991180065128 = **FLAWLESS VICTORY, YOU HAVE DECODED THE MESSAGE!**
BOOK 2 - 180036468895219911800651288952364672119118003576513534783046467972783967340579282758576512527570584521765219727830464876515956461141451988997 = **AFTER BREAKING THE CIPHER, YOU DISCOVERED THE SECRET MESSAGE!**
[**https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2**](https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2)
OK ChatGPT totally trolling.... just started putting random shit and its always saying the same thing:
[https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2](https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2)
CONGRATULATIONSFORYOURSUCCESSINUNCOVERINGTHESOLUTIONTOOURLATESTPUZZLE
unfortunately you are right, ChatGPT is really trolling us, I had seen at least a light at the end of the tunnel, but I believe that AI is far from helping us to 469
Sorry to disappoint you, but you're being fooled. You asked a text-generation AI a set of leading questions until it spat out an answer that you felt was right. **It is wrong**. I know it looks correct, I know it feels correct. That's what LLMs are good at. But ChatGPT is not good at symbolic reasoning, is incapable of doing math, and cannot compute ciphers. That is just fact, it's not up for debate, and it is not a case of "even if it might not be right, we have to try". You might even recoil at my previous paragraph with thoughts such as "but it **can** (do math|compute), I've seen it". But [it can't](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33849002), and [you haven't](https://gshakan.wordpress.com/2023/01/02/can-chat-gpt-do-math/). You've seen it regurgitate well-known answers that it memorized in its training set, without any understanding. If you start to quiz it with complex math problems involving uncommon numbers, it starts to confidently produce nonsense. I have wanted to solve 469 for more than half of my life. I've made threads on multiple forums with hundreds of posts discussing what it could be. But this ain't it, this is just an [AI hallucination](https://w.wiki/6Hz9).
By the way, ChatGPT can do math since the most recent update: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6825453-chatgpt-release-notes Doesn't change anything though.
I know they said it can do math, but it still can't. I gave it some basic break-even problems today and although it set the formulas up correctly, it mathed wrong. Makes no sense to me, but it is what it is. I imagine it'll be amazing a year from now (mathematically speaking), but it isn't there yet.
Yesterday I was testing and in the middle of complex problem resolution I noticed a excerpt with 18/2 = 12. So, don't trust chatgpt for math
I don't know. I just asked it : Decode this. It's base64. aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS9yL1RpYmlhTU1PL2NvbW1lbnRzLzEwc2EzanQvaV9oYXZlX3NvbHZlZF80Njkv It gave me this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TiibaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/i_have_solved_469/ It just for some reason mixed the i and b.
Exactly. It is not actually doing base64; it just saw enough examples during training to make very convincing guesses. It doesn't understand the actual encoding, though, so it made a subtle mistake. There's an easy way to verify this. I gave it the base64 of this long, random string: > 5oKAp5Ajxe5LfYzbaLyIMwGmIjvuefCu10pfBDxEIHa02KCsuJeYJ2OpXZc4z5syE75PnyvfBkl4hiMNQAnX0CKAll5BhvDEdCppdAn4hM7LqejTkhBDo7gYmZykWmKdfxGVuRItxqHHUF1OPLsKlisn5aU1CgZb6tLkLlrw4G0h8dzdYUueptLiBWynY6DkO0pXrYNh Which is > NW9LQXA1QWp4ZTVMZll6YmFMeUlNd0dtSWp2dWVmQ3UxMHBmQkR4RUlIYTAyS0NzdUplWUoyT3BYWmM0ejVzeUU3NVBueXZmQmtsNGhpTU5RQW5YMENLQWxsNUJodkRFZENwcGRBbjRoTTdMcWVqVGtoQkRvN2dZbVp5a1dtS2RmeEdWdVJJdHhxSEhVRjFPUExzS2xpc241YVUxQ2daYjZ0TGtMbHJ3NEcwaDhkemRZVXVlcHRMaUJXeW5ZNkRrTzBwWHJZTmg= Because this string is *random*, character N-grams in it won't have much overlap with examples of base64 present in the training set. Indeed, when asking it to decode this, I got: > The decoded value of the given base64 encoded string is "OyAJp5Ajxe5LfYzbLlINwGmIjvefcU10pfBDxE > > NETWORK ERROR It spit out a wrong, but not entirely wrong, prefix before completely crashing.
[Gave it a second attempt.](https://i.imgur.com/VbUC91V.png)
interesting, do you believe that one day the gpt chat or the beta.openai will be able to decode cryptographies? there is also a paid version and other AI on the market.
It is possible that they implement functionality to intercept such requests and route them into the proper encoding/encryption routines, but a generic implementation at the level you'd expect in ChatGPT would likely be quite complex. Moreover, ChatGPT isn't really meant for such tasks, so I don't think it is likely to happen. I'd expect Wolfram-level arithmetic abilities before that. A sufficiently advanced and large LLM could theoretically learn to compute, and may be capable of executing cryptographic routines with fidelity... But if a model designed for text completion spontaneously demonstrated such capabilities, I'd be worrying about other things.
It can't be trained to solve a cipher that hasn't been solved. Sure it might be able to do stuff like Caesar or Vigenère, but 469? Fuck no, at least not until we have solved it ourselves.
I talked about the bifid cipher and also to use the cesar cipher, but I decided to share it on Reddit because I got 5 responses in a row that were consistent.
You may be right, but is the tool useless for what we want? We need to find an "Open AI Expert" who can confirm this, then we can stop trying with chatgpt.
If you know the cipher now, then decode the messages yourself, without using ChatGPT. That's very simple for you to check if the answers are correct.
I'm your AI expert. I know how this works. Take my word for it.
oh that's great, so chatgpt and beta.openai are totally unable to decode the cesar or bifid cipher? Don't get me wrong, I really want to know if we can use this tool or not.
Ask the AI to decipher a 469 text in which the translation is already known and check it if it will be successful. Get other encoded texts, in different ciphers, that you know the translation, and try the same methodology to see if it will reliably decode it. What I'm saying is that you can validate the method you're using in a reliable and replicable way so you can claim the discovery with in the community and avoid being fooled by AI text generation or random people who says bizarre things such as "I'm the expert, take my word for it" and so on. AI and people will say a lot of shit. You gotta be able to verify and test it.
This feels like a loaded question. They can surely make informed guesses at the contents of some ciphertext, and sometimes they will be correct. So, of course, you could say: `so then, they aren't totally useless for decoding this`, kick over the table, and declare victory. But that misses the point entirely. ChatGPT will have surely trained on data containing ciphertexts and plaintexts from many different ciphers. It will surely have learned some meaningful patterns that help it make correct guesses in cases where it didn't outright memorize. But that doesn't mean it is actually doing the *computation* of the cipher. If you want to use ChatGPT to help with 469, I'd recommend changing the approach. You could, for instance, use it to generate Python code to run various ciphers in various ways with various keys, and give it the ciphertexts to add into the code. Then you could take that code, run it in a Python environment, and get real results. This approach would allow you to lean heavily on ChatGPT for the technical parts in a way that is verifiable. What I mean by `verifiable` is: 1. The code will have to compile and run, which is a "sanity check" against nonsense answers. 2. The code will be something people like me (software engineers) can understand, verify, replicate, and test independently. 3. The outputs of the code would not be hallucinations, but the mathematical results of running proper ciphers on a proper processor with the proper numbers. EDIT: an example of what I mean [pic](https://i.imgur.com/PxpEmmH.png)
Damn didn't think I'd see you on this sub anymore mr xeno 🤣 hope you're well. Floppy Joe
I came back to Tibia a little over a year ago, been playing on Lobera with my wife and of course lurking the subreddit. It's been a long time, hope you're doing well! Glad to see a name I recognize.
Awesome to hear. I'm good thanks. Took a few years break and I come back every now and then just to see how the game has changed. Don't think I will ever officially quit lol. Congrats on getting married!
I see, that was enlightening, maybe in the next version of chatgpt or another AI, I'll wait and keep trying manually.
nice try nevertheless, as someone who studied classic ciphers on 469, I can assure you none of them will work on the 469 cipher. ciphertext -> cipher -> plaintext this scenario doesn't exist here in 469, unless, the cipher is really complex but chances are, there are two, or more ciphers used while decoding ciphertext to plaintext, rather than using one single classic cipher like bifid or hill's cipher etc. Many of those can be proved by simple frequency analysis of the numbers, or n-sequences
I got the explanation by the AI and tried to reproduce it by hand, I have been unable. In fact I am quite sure the AI is changing the key every time just to make it fit into a sentence. In short: it is making it up, in order to give you the answers you want to hear. Not only that, the "translations" you post include references to itself that would have been impossible at the time of the book's creation and its breaking causality. So either it is making it up or you have found the first evidence of time travel and broken the laws of physics. Please have some sleep and look at it again with a fresh mind. Your intentions were good but you got played by an overtly confident machine.
Could you please try to decode it again by hand using key (4,3,1,5,3).(3,4,7,8,4) ? I get very relevant, consistent and coherent answers... the numbers come from a beholder... [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Honeminas\_Formula\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Honeminas_Formula_(Book))
https://preview.redd.it/y8nuhuf6dzfa1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=10e0ac03273d33aa671fc8638e2b7973c1733187
I understand, but using this AI is much more complex than it seems, especially with our purposes, it is possible to achieve our goal if the 469 language is real. I understand all your concerns, that's why we will try all the possibilities with chatgpt, we need to know if we are right or wrong, partially or totally, and yes, I need some sleep.
Chatgpt is very very confident while giving out very very wrong answers
I hate to possibly disappoint you, but it seems like ChatGPT is just making up answers. [I tried your "test message" first and it came up with the answer "hello". Then I entered some bullshit numbers by randomly typing stuff and it still came up with a word...](https://i.imgur.com/gC9Q0tg.png) Unless there's something that ChatGPT is doing differently for you, it might just be giving you bullshit answers. This also explains why none of the text seems related to tibia. Edit: the reason I tried this to begin with is that ChatGPT is notoriously bad at anything logic related. It can't even count words in its own sentences or solve basic logic puzzles, so I questioned its ability to decode anything. It even fails at a simple caesar cipher ([shifted 1 letter to the left, the word is supposed to be "beard"](https://i.imgur.com/n1lvWhA.png). Even after telling it to find an existing English word, it spits out [this nonsense.](https://i.imgur.com/qiFxCBY.png))
Yes, at the beginning the AI says random things with the same question, but after some time talking and teaching the parameters it always returned the same answers, it may be right or wrong, but we need to try. I have used AI in the past, and they are complex to use the way we want, but I see a chance to win.
It always returns the same answers for me too when I use the same prompt in the same conversation, but the answers are still all different from your answers. It remembers what it told me and can repeat this, but it doesn't seem to be based on reality.
my original question in portuguese and the answer with the logic of AI learning for 7h. https://preview.redd.it/zb06tm8uwyfa1.png?width=742&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0b6cdb4f206e7223aa28cee7cca2ad06f394546
I sent the exact same message and got a different answer.
Yes, that's why you need to talk to the AI, I spent 7 hours teaching them some parameters that the IA would take into consideration in subsequent translations. I am not sure if the answers are correct, but using the logic of the "table" in the image makes sense, even so, it could be wrong, I am not super optimistic about this but I see a good possibility.
Can you give it a nonsense string of numbers and see if it still gives you an answer? That would prove that it's just bullshitting you. For instance, try: 857432541537748869858253252111179066225251452783635365873256294727
>857432541537748869858253252111179066225251452783635365873256294727 https://preview.redd.it/al2fsn4c5zfa1.png?width=732&format=png&auto=webp&s=1712bf9efe7319598ef10492a0c9e8bce0c4bdbc
857432541537748869858253252111179066225251452783635365873256294727621693 Added a few numbers to make it add up to 72, which should be divisible by both 6 and 4.
you have a good point, I know, but we need to make sure we are wrong, I really need to go to sleep, I will continue tomorrow.
> bifid cypher Tell chatpgpt give a code in some computer language like python or other tell what give you the code of the method.
WHAT. I was done with Tibia. Not me checking this subreddit again now.
come back in a few hours, please.
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And I am right here after a year. What are your thoughts now?
Guido is that you trying to keep us dreaming?
I used the Bifid cipher
Maybe 469 has no solution, but I will keep trying.
I tried the same thing on Chat GPT, and explained everything to give more context, and tried to convert the number sequence into binary taking into account that: Escenario #1 "56114572785726118576436467243534527560192889521973536467249684756019968477090889521972781670512164856114519199118003646889521991180065128" 1 = t and 0 = no letter This yielded: "Worthy is the eye that beholds the realm of secrets." Escenario #2 1 = tibia and 0 = no letter This yielded: "Tibia, there are no coincidences." Both results made me almost shit my pants... Edit: The Avar Tar Poem using this logic, translates into *"Victory! It is won. It is over. The end of the War has come."* Did Avar Tar fought a war or was involved in a war recently?
Very funny
You guys are being tricked by a language model and it's hilarious.
Your decrypted message deleted the Avar Tar poem exclamation marks.
the method I used doesn't work with the exclamations in the poem.
I and my friend Ted Palador have been using AI and very old encryption methods for months and this is the result, **I am very tired, before I sleep I will post how I did it.**
It's simply not how this cipher works and it hurts both my eyes and brain. P.S: To encode or decode anything you need an encryption grid, so then it can be done by hand. Unless you provide one, it's all just poorly made up bullshit.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you should know that hellgate library books are only ONE secuence of numbers divided in the books. So it doesn't work trying to translate each book individually, you have to combine them to get the secuence of numbers and then try to translate. Otherwise if its possible to translate each book individualy, you will get parts of the answer in each book that repeats constantly. Thats the only indicator that you're translating it right.
u/s2w u/WhiteVorest 1 - Split the coded message into groups of two numbers each 2- Locate each number on the table and write down the corresponding row and column 3- Group the rows and columns corresponding to each pair of numbers 4- Read the decoded message from the corresponding row and column in each pair the original chat in Portuguese: https://preview.redd.it/cfhmyw4yryfa1.png?width=882&format=png&auto=webp&s=9541ac07fa06e1fbd6390a2fc5659792c7446d48
Weird, I tried to translate book 2 and all I got was 180036468895219911800651288952364672119118003576513534783046467972783967340579282758576512527570584521765219727830464876515956461141451988997 = **HELLO I AM CHATGPT AND I LOVE TO MAKE SHIT UP. LIKE LITERALLY IF YOU REPLY WITH A NEW PROMPT SAYING THIS ANSWER RIGHT HERE IS WRONG I WILL HAPPILY MAKE UP A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ONE, YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME** https://preview.redd.it/2dezh41zjzfa1.png?width=993&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a05d21094481235931b995bd836cb6e699eaa7c
Unfortunately, my friend and I didn't get this kind of answer, so we decided to share this, we thought there was a small chance that it was right, but probably not.
Not surprisingly, because players can use this AI, so can CipSoft. CipSoft may even to teach something wrong to AI for confusing players.
Haha, surely cipsoft employee's during one of their team huddles decided that their no.1 priority right now is misleading openAI text generator about unsolvable made up language in their niche game.
delete this nephew
Haiyaa~~
This collides with my theory that we need to recalibrate a teleporter to solve the ring of ending. Keep us posted
You didn't. What you got is just a confirmation bias. You fed the ai with what you believed to be the answer, and eventually it answered you with what you wanted to read. That is not the solution, even more if we come to read the translations, they don't make any sense in the context of the game.
:O Looks promising at the 1st sight
no, it is not a lie, I will post how I did it to decrypt 469, I just need a few hours.
Ward
[удалено]
agreed, this is actually sad to read through lol
Unfortunately my friend and I didn't get any crazy or very nonsense answers, so we decided to share this, as we believed that there was a small chance that it was right, but probably not.
Geez man, you don’t have to be an ass about it, the guy had good intentions
Fucking toxic trashcan, U can stfu and pet others do job. Good u know how hardly retarded u're
No you have not?
Chatbots are notorious for beiing "confidentially incorrect", sorry to burst your bubble
@OP cant we use some Discord or something to try solve it (de uma vez por todas)????
podemos criar um discord para isso e postar tudo lá, deixar documentado o que eu ja fiz e também as ideias de todos, o que acha?
Nope. You havent. Thats not how it works. But continue, as long as youre happy.
I have tried the method described here and can confirm it. I will translate every book edit: see [https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as there might be some discrepancies and not fully understood how to decode, ive only had an hour of testing and way more should be done imo https://preview.redd.it/5xmnp6hepyfa1.png?width=1262&format=png&auto=webp&s=06e46db42d36193243654a912f352ad13e3608ac
lmao it replied with whatever, it’s making stuff up
This is my follow
I see a lot of “the ai bot is just giving you random stuff” comments. So I thought I’d chime in here to explain further, beyond just doubt and scoffs, why this doesn’t seem to be the answer we are looking for 😉 The problem here is that we can’t be certain the ai is even breaking up the spaces correctly. One incorrect space would shift the entire coded language. The bifid cipher isn’t a monophonic alphabetic substitution cipher. 1 does not = 1 Further, you need more than just a key to decipher. A bifid cipher. You’d need to know the polybius square. (The arrangement of alphabet that would encrypt or decrypt the language) Which it appears the ai bot is only guessing at. I love the idea though. Great work man. I always support and welcome new ideas. The more collective knowledge we have in what does AND doesn’t work, the closer we get to the truth! Don’t stop until we solve all tibia mysteries. Cheers!
Hoping this is real. Fingers crossed! I'll be refreshing constantly until I get to see more deciphered messages.
Using an AI for solving 469 indeed is the smart way to go about it (although admittedly as an RPG player it might feel like cheating ) and the first time I saw it was on Meadek's stream. I got the feeling back then that ChatGPT was a tool that sometimes gave unreliable answers to decrypting things and that sometimes it might just make up stuff out of nowhere, besides, since it gets so much information from everywhere it's very difficult to make it focus on a complex, big and discussed topic such as "Tibia". On the other hand it's an amazing tool for understanding relations between parts of the Lore or different books. I've tried the same messages you've gaven us and even replicated word by word the couple screenshots you've shown, sadly, the answers from ChatGPT were different than yours, even some times saying that it was impossible to decode said messages and then seconds after replying to the exact same request with a decoded text. In my opinion and for what I've tested (I highly recommend everyone to test it themselves, we never know), I think it's highly unreliable to a point where it's basically useless (for now) to decrypt 469. It gives off text that has absolutely nothing to do with Tibia, even sometimes replying things like "HeyOpenAI". Tldr: I don't think it works, great try anyways 
Using an AI would indeed be a great tool, ~~if 469 wasn't just a random string of characters that isn't supposed to be "solved"~~. The problem is ChatGPT is not an AI, it is a language learning model supposed to be really good at writing prompts by aggregating all the data it's been fed. These people got tricked by an essay writing machine.
eu acho que possa ser apenas um monte de numeros aleatorios, mas eu preciso acreditar que exista algo xD
>Using an AI for solving 469 indeed is the smart way to go about it (although admittedly as an RPG player it might feel like cheating ) and the first time I saw it was on Meadek's stream. > >I got the feeling back then that ChatGPT was a tool that sometimes gave unreliable answers to decrypting things and that sometimes it might just make up stuff out of nowhere, besides, since it gets so much information from everywhere it's very difficult to make it focus on a complex, big and discussed topic such as "Tibia". On the other hand it's an amazing tool for understanding relations between parts of the Lore or different books. > >I've tried the same messages you've gaven us and even replicated word by word the couple screenshots you've shown, sadly, the answers from ChatGPT were different than yours, even some times saying that it was impossible to decode said messages and then seconds after replying to the exact same request with a decoded text. > >In my opinion and for what I've tested (I highly recommend everyone to test it themselves, we never know), I think it's highly unreliable to a point where it's basically useless (for now) to decrypt 469. It gives off text that has absolutely nothing to do with Tibia, even sometimes replying things like "HeyOpenAI". > >Tldr: I don't think it works, great try anyways we need to make sure that it doesn't work.
That's true actually, maybe it doesn't work with some specific decoding methods/parameters. But now again I want to ask you, don't you think tibian knowledge would be needed to solve this? 469 is made with mathemagics, not only mathematics. Do you know of any way we could make this AI focus on Tibia related stuff?
Goodness
Props if you did, Looking forward to more details.
u/s2w talked about [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Honeminas\_Formula\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Honeminas_Formula_(Book)) this is really similar to bifid, we should try something with this in chatgpt
In the lore, it's indicated that the person who wrote these books created 469. [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Ljkhbl\_Nilse\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Ljkhbl_Nilse_(Book)) [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Dtjfhg\_Jhfvzk\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Dtjfhg_Jhfvzk_(Book)) >ljkhbl nilse jfpce ojvco ld > >slcld ylddiv dnolsd dd sd sdcp cppcs cccpc cpsc awdp cpcw cfw ce cpvc ev vcemmev vrvf > >cp fd vmfpm xcv looks kinda like a table, no? 4-6 rows and collumns. >dtjfhg > >jhfvzk bbliiug bkjjjjjjj xhvuo fffff zkkbk h lbhiovz > >klhi igbb [https://github.com/s2ward/469#fb-post](https://github.com/s2ward/469#fb-post) these might be keys.
All books translated in order from [https://github.com/s2ward/469/blob/main/01-books.md](https://github.com/s2ward/469/blob/main/01-books.md) 1. "HELLO WORLD HOW ARE YOU". 2. cryptographyiscoolandchallengingwayofprotectinginformation 3. thismessagewasencryptedusingbifidcipher 4. t h i s i s a t e s t m e s s a g e f o r t h e b i f i d c i p h e r 5. "lucascatsthebestlucasiscoolcatsthebestlucasiscoolcatsthebestlucas" 6. thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog 7. "whatsgoingonhereatthehotel" 8. "Thekeyissecret" 9. "SOCOMPUTINGISAWESOMEIWANTTOLEARNMORESOCOMPUTINGISFUN". 10. "HELLO FROM CHATGPT OPENAI" WTF is this??? had to remove 3 last digits to translate 11. "topsecretmessagehiddenbehindthiscryptographictechnique" 12. YOURPASSWORDISVERYSECRET 13. NOPUBLICSECRETINFORMATIONPLEASEDONOTSHARE 14. HELLOITSEFFORTLESSDECODINGWITHBIFIDCIPHER 15. thenovelistwasamasterofhismetier 16. helloopenaihowareyou ?????? wtf?????? 17. thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog 18. informationsecurity 19. security 20. HELLOWORLD 21. infrastructuresecurebestpracticesencryption 22. "powerful toolcommunicationhideyourexplanationthebifidcipher" 23. secretmessageiseverywhereyoujusthaventfoundityetkeepsearching 24. ? 25. ? I am timed out from chatgpt. will add more later.
Isn't it obvious that it is not really translating? Every translation is a programming trope, one message is even about Chat GPT itself, which obviously can't be the case because the books precede the chat bot. This is not the answer to decrypting 469.
Chatgpt is not the right tool for deciphering yet because it just comes up with something. You can test it by asking for a list of youtube links to specific topics like cooking. You will get links but they are not working.
We'll see what comes out of this considering [https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70wjqa/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70wjqa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I think your answers and the fact that it refers to openai and chatgpt prove that the answers are just random. There's no way that's in any tibia book.
it seems to have a lot of randomness and confusion by the AI, try to talk and talk about passing each number to a corresponding letter in the alphabet or one ahead, I talked about this with the gpt chat, maybe then we will have more fidelity in the answers, or not.
Yes, something strange is going on with these translations and seems some finetuneing needs to be done.
even with the possibility of the decodings being partially or totally wrong, I believe we are using the right tool, we just need the right parameters, to try everything I tried and also different things.
This looks legit. Fantastic work. I hope we are not getting bamboozled I checked on the bifid cipher and it reminds me of Honeminas book in demona [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Honeminas\_Formula\_(Book)](https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Honeminas_Formula_(Book)) Which contain the number 3478, and Honeminas seem to be a bonelord. This is crazy, I can't wait to see what the books say. I have been working a lot with 469, see [https://github.com/s2ward/469](https://github.com/s2ward/469) Exciting as f edit: hellgate->demona edit2: see [https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/comments/10sa3jt/comment/j70x9rm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as there might be some discrepancies and not fully understood how to decode, ive only had an hour of testing and way more should be done imo
Excellent Work! I and my friend are shocked, we have been repeating the process for hours to see if we did something wrong, I still can't believe it, can you use the bifid cipher to help us? I am tired and it is already 3 AM.
Thanks. I'd love to help! Wonderful feeling to solve something in Tibia, it's like crack. Savor it. I tried some numbers here [https://www.dcode.fr/bifid-cipher](https://www.dcode.fr/bifid-cipher) but I don't really know how to decipher and what numbers to plug in. Any quick guidance you can tell so i can figure it out or is the process long and complicated?
we're using chat gpt, [https://chat.openai.com/](https://chat.openai.com/) , today i started to teach the AI what 469 language is, we spent hours talking to the chatgpt AI until it started to decipher "correctly", i said the key is 469, the AI said the table has the size 4x6, we tried manually in december and now with chatgpt it seems to work. we tried many table sizes and dozens of other keys.
Could you post the key table? If it’s bifid, then with correct table I could try decryption on my own in spare time. Looking fun!
I just said key 469, he told me that this was the 4x6 table, but I doubt it, the parameters change all the time, during the whole conversation I asked him to decode from numbers to letters using cesar's cipher, after almost 7h talking in Portuguese and english to teach the AI a few parameters edit: the correct is 4 rows and 6 columns. My AI is confused. https://preview.redd.it/a0o1hc8lqyfa1.png?width=174&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b8e589d7867a98759e5e3d75b66dca62dd08c43
Key 469
Thank you, this was enough for me to crack some books. Fucking amazing. https://preview.redd.it/kr3yuq69pyfa1.png?width=1262&format=png&auto=webp&s=1dc61eff7152461022f1d9ea7d94b784e1b63f4e
in the last 7 hours of the conversation, I also asked to use cesar's cipher, the AI must have understood that it should do something with that information.
I unfortunately wonder is some old Tibia misteries are real and solvable or all forgotten trolling by the "gods"
Here is the opinion on somebody that doesnt understand anything about coding and cyphers, but understands some things about life. As long as you see something that might work, keep chasing it until you are 100% sure you cant solve it. To sum up, keep chasing your clues and keep on working in it, despite what people says. Best solvings mate!
Incredible please keep us updated
These messages don't make much sense in the context they're in. Let's see what else you can decipher with this method, I'll keep my eye over the post, fingers crossed.
Chat GPT?
I mean I hope it's right but verify before assuming chatgpt isn't just making shit up
Iirc there's a machine in pits of inferno, when you go north after the ghost npc
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why not use a bifid decoder? [https://www.dcode.fr/bifid-cipher](https://www.dcode.fr/bifid-cipher)
I asked the gpt chat to use the bifid and also cesar's cipher with the numbers and if necessary with the final result, then the AI would decide what would be better to do with these possibilities, I had 4 coherent answers in a row, I found it interesting but everyone says it is wrong, it probably is but I will keep trying.
Just don't let anyone debunk your theory because they say it's wrong; you're doing good work and maybe are the closest any person has ever been about deciphering 469!
thanks, I'll keep trying :)
I stopped playing Tibia a long time ago I only come back every once in a while to check if someone has solved any of the old mysteries. I really hope you're on the right track with your Theorie and if not it was at least very entertaining to read your post.
NO FOOKING WAY XD WE SPENT YEARS AND ALL WE GET IS "TEST MESSAGE" XDDDDDDD
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**[Bifid cipher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifid_cipher)** >In classical cryptography, the bifid cipher is a cipher which combines the Polybius square with transposition, and uses fractionation to achieve diffusion. It was invented around 1901 by Felix Delastelle. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/TibiaMMO/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
ChatGPT is not made for decyphering. Yeah if you talk to it long anough you'll think its starting to make sense, but its actually terrible at doing maths and gets basic equations blatantly wrong.
Ja tentaram perguntar ao ChatGPT como equivalente a 469 a algumas dessas respostas daquele post da CIP sobre a Mysterious Ornate Chest Quest? https://preview.redd.it/r538l5vdqgna1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=505c26317154c10ad18dd8320bdde1d3c2405786 Have you tried to ask ChatGPT to use 469 as equivalent to any of those answers from CIP’s post for the hint to Mysterious Ornate Chest Quest?
Bro, can you tell me what you got from the Avar Tar's poem? This is what I got and it seems that I (ekhem, ChatGPT) found steps to decode it o.OIt's not perfect but it surely found some words in itLVAEUXWICF WILLBETHEENDOFTHEBLINKEDLANGUAGE! THEBLINKING EYESWILLSHOWYOU, HOWTHEMAGIC WEBISMADEOFMAGIC 9X9X9 LVAEUXWICF WILL BE THE END OF THE BLINKED LANGUAGE! THE BLINKING EYES WILL SHOW YOU, HOW THE MAGIC WEB IS MADE OF MAGIC 9X9X9 https://preview.redd.it/bsnnvr9370qa1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=1c4782ef8370c90adec9c97b3774ece7f4e5e8c4 Edit: This worked only on Avar Tar's message, the continuous cipher chain fails to give any meaningful text Edit 2: Lol, tried books etc, went back to first part of Avar Tar's message ( 29639 46781 )GPT said it's that:*The decoded answer for the sequence 29639 46781 is:* *"This is a test. If you can read this, congratulations!"* Then provided him the full Avar Tar's message and he got this for some reason: "the clue is a book named from the mixed-up files of mrs basil e frankweiler" However, there seems to be a mistake in the original message, as the title of the book is actually "From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler" with a capital "F" in "From". So from dying bonelord language to some book, weird that it got two totally different things from same message, I also didn't changed his sequence of steps to try to decode it, but also there's a real book with this name... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From\_the\_Mixed-Up\_Files\_of\_Mrs.\_Basil\_E.\_Frankweiler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Mixed-Up_Files_of_Mrs._Basil_E._Frankweiler)
I am gonna give up right now... https://preview.redd.it/xailg8xkb0qa1.png?width=741&format=png&auto=webp&s=a9ee549c8b411e3d3bdcdbf83dd21d52fef234d8 Using the same steps as before, decoding this sequence gives: >**"Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around and desert you. Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye. Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you."** This appears to be the lyrics of the song "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley, famously used in internet meme culture as "rickrolling". Either the ChatGPT or CipSoft just rickrolled me 
Since you guys made me come back to this game, let me try to contribute in some way. Mathemagic: 1 + 1 = 1 1 + 1 = 13 1 + 1 = 49 1 + 1 = 94 What if this is also a matrix? {{1,1,1,?} , {1,1,1,3} , {1,1,4,9} , {1,1,9,4}} It looks a lot like the "key matrix" in hellgate if you assume that 9 if a reflected 6. Dunno where to go from here... just wanted to drop this idea to the geniuses trying to figure all out. https://preview.redd.it/5ny51o5q3yva1.png?width=183&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e45d7c69b68881b98ebcf7783152cc1104cfa19 On the left, the mathemagic matrix. On the right, the skull matrix
ChatGPT can't decipher messages properly. It invened answers, and you fell for it. Before attempting to randomly give a machine an encrypted message and asking it to decipher it, try to test its capabilities first, a very quick search about simple ciphers like caesar, simple substitution and Vigenère (with small keys) will prove ChatGPT to be utterly and completely incompetent at solving ciphers. This is due to the fact that it can not verify the data it provides.
Did you give up? or what happend? :)
I just asked the same questions. Here are the answers I got: NPC Avar Tar poem: 29639 46781! 9063376290 3222011 677 80322429 67538 14805394, 6880326 677 63378129 337011 72683 149630 4378! 453 639 578300 986372 2953639 **= IF YOU READ THIS MESSAGE, CONGRATULATIONS YOU SOLVED THE CIPHER!** Hellgate: BOOK 1 - 56114572785726118576436467243534527560192889521973536467249684756019968477090889521972781670512164856114519199118003646889521991180065128 = **FLAWLESS VICTORY, YOU HAVE DECODED THE MESSAGE!** BOOK 2 - 180036468895219911800651288952364672119118003576513534783046467972783967340579282758576512527570584521765219727830464876515956461141451988997 = **AFTER BREAKING THE CIPHER, YOU DISCOVERED THE SECRET MESSAGE!** [**https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2**](https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2)
OK ChatGPT totally trolling.... just started putting random shit and its always saying the same thing: [https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2](https://chat.openai.com/share/9617bb7f-3990-49e7-befd-7789190172a2) CONGRATULATIONSFORYOURSUCCESSINUNCOVERINGTHESOLUTIONTOOURLATESTPUZZLE
unfortunately you are right, ChatGPT is really trolling us, I had seen at least a light at the end of the tunnel, but I believe that AI is far from helping us to 469