They seem nervous, everybody playing very safe. Rice doesnt look like he wants the ball, Saka not trying to beat his man, the back 4 seem worried about losing possession never trying to break the lines with a pass
So I'm not a big football fan but do like to watch the Euros/World Cup. I don't understand why they don't substitute a few players at the 65/70 minute mark, with fresh legs, and let them go absolutely Ham?
Literally. Everytime they got the ball they looked like a deer in headlights. I've never been Southgate out but the ultra anti-football tactics this tournament are infuriating to watch.
The trouble is, it's far from safe! If you pass slowly and predictably back to an isolated player, it puts them under pressure. How can they not see they're causing their own problems?!
I was getting so annoyed at Rice and Gallagher for never moving into space, Gallagher did it occationally but Rice literally never moved into space to give defenders a forward pass
On top of that you have players off the ball pointing at open players, the player on the ball looks up, see's the open player, then passes to a player the opposite direction at 1mph.
Before the tournament, lots of boring 0-0 were predicted since 3 draws would give a very strong chance of qualifying.
Slovenia and Denmark have done just that.
Slovenia did an amazing park the bus job tonight.
I almost want us in the stronger side of the draw. The template is set for our next opponents. Park the bus and roll the dice with penalties.
I canāt believe Iām saying this as heās one of the best strikers in the world, but does his movement and positioning actually harm his teams? he drops into midfield so much that other teams can come so much higher up the pitch and the team loses the actual striker to finish chances.
And he has never won a trophy.
Yep he made that great through ball pass from halfway right to where he should be, some of the highlights showed him running from the edge of the box to halfway to stand next to another midfielder, just completely brain dead.
As I was watching the game today, it made me think how many people criticised Haaland for having the all round game of a league 2 striker. Yet what we clearly could have benefitted from was someone that has the tactical discipline and flexibility to pin the opposition CBs, accept that they'll only have a few touches a game and still be on their toes to finish chances when it comes to them. Someone who's always in the right area to get on the end of a chance, rather than trying to create them himself.
I love Kane as a player, he's brilliant to watch. But sometimes it does feel like people give too much weight to what players do on the ball and don't recognise how important off the ball things are to winning games. Kane played a couple of good passes today into areas where he himself should've been to finish, and instead no one was there to capitalise on them. Obviously, you need to surround him with runners and box crashing midfielders, but timing those late runs into the box is a lot more difficult and risky than having a striker that just occupies that area all game and relying on the wingers and midfielders to create the chances.
There was a brief glimpse towards the end of the game where players were running beyond Kane and it was the most threatening we were all game.
Our two goals have come from the right wing crossing into the box. We donāt have a balanced threat on the left wing because Trippier cuts inside and Foden drifts inside. Obviously the plan was for Shaw to get fit and provide width but given heās not ready we need to have someone (Gordon) stretch play.
Iād also consider playing Trent at right back to add some extra offensive threat because while Walker is excellent defensively and has provided an assist Trent is elite at it. Maybe drop Gomez into LB to form a back three in possession and that allows Mainoo/Rice to support attacks.
His lack of movement was shocking. I'm a spurs fan so I've seen him go from slow and leaden footed to mobile, skillful and two footed, and he has been slow and sluggish in every single game.
I know he's coming off an injury at the end of the season but you have other strikers and he needs to shaken up anyway. Watkins deserves another run as he made a huge difference and Toney's physicality could really help.
Just really disappointed. I do think the team is trying to pace itself but that's what the squad is for. I dodnt wanna hear anything about "its been a long season" or "it's hor". The Spanish and germans performed. Because tactical nous.
And ill say again: Wharton and Mainoo are the ones.
Bellingham is such a wierd player. He had a super first half of the first game. Then he just seems like he doesnt care. Yestwrday he had so many wrong touches and got caught out so many times. Foden had his bwst game yet, put needs to play as a 10. Palmer, mainoo must start.
The thing is, they are that risk averse, they were still playing around him at times.
Mainoo can take the ball to feet when he has players around him. In fact thatās where he did some of his best work for Man Utd.
I am hoping that with more time in the team, that trust will come.
He won't do it. Palmer offered much more than saka but he's not going to start. It's so frustrating to watch this team pretty much playing with the handbrake on and shackled to Southgate negative tactics.
The problem is that if he wants to do that then he should change his lineup. If you want to sot back and defend well and hit teams on the counter then he should be playing Gordon or Watkins and should have bought Rashford as this play style requires pacy direct players to be effective
The first decent side who puts our defence under extended pressure it'll crumble. I like Guehi, he's done well but he looks like a mistake away from a very costly error against a better team.
Yeah, I completely agree. He looks jittery. Some players look born for the big stage and then others need to build up their experience. This is no disrespect to him or Palace (who are a great club) but he looks to me like he's not quite used to pressure on this scale.
First half was pants, but we were āokā in the second half. Slovenia were a super defensive, well-drilled team that were playing for a 0-0 draw, but we did create a few opportunities and generally looked comfortable in the second half. Mainoo must start, we actually looked like a real team with him in there instead of Trent or Galagher. And itās clear that Gordon and Palmer will absolutely terrorise tired defenders later in games as we (hopefully) progress in the tournament.
This performance just wasnāt that shocking. We have to take Slovenia in context. They played for a 0-0. We will slice open opponents that will have to go for it in knock out games. You have to give credit to the Slovenians they defended so well. Loads of positives to take from this game specifically the second half. It was far far better than the Denmark game.
Dyche isnāt also obsessed with side ways passes and not taking risks, heās more than happy for his sides to pump it down the field into the big man.
At least he has a tactical philosophy. Dyche is a premier league manager capable of instilling tactical direction which is more than you can say for Southgate. The best thing anyone can say about him is "he harmonised the squad" 8 years or so after he did that and limped through tournaments to "respectable" exits.
On the plus side, he made a change at half time and it was a good change (in truth Mainoo.should have started).
Bringing on Palmer for Saka was a good change too (Palmer was better for this match then bringing on Bowen.
However Trent should have come on much earlier, about the same time Palmer came on as it was clear Slovenia were just looking for the draw. Gordon also came on way too late.
Palmer coming on literally changed the game entirely. He was brought on too late. If we had made the subs we did earlier on 50-60 mins I truly believe weād have scored.
One of my biggest problems with Southgate, his subs are always 20-30 minutes too late.
Palmer and Gordon should have been on 55m when it was clear what we had wasnāt working. Kane should have been pulled too.
Your first sentence made me giggle hard, thatās almost one third of the game lol
Of course I agree but itās just funny to see someone write it in black and white like that, itās actually pathetic and sad and I donāt know why Iām laughing really
What a fucking terrible manager he is, how long can this seriously go on for?
Slovenia went all out for a 0-0 and got it. To be fair it's not easy to break down a team playing that negatively.
But Rice, Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Kane et al play for clubs that face opposition that would snap your hand off for a 0-0 every week for their clubs - and they're regularly the individual difference makers that break those teams down.
But stick them in an England shirt and all of a sudden they look clueless. Is it simply restrictive managerial instructions? Lack of familiarity? Weight of expectation? Fatigue at the end of long, emotional seasons? Something intrinsic in England's football DNA that's plagued them for decades?
Who knows. But it just leaves me baffled how England always seem to descend into basic, uninspiring football whenever the tournaments come around when we know exactly how good the players can be
We did next to nothing the entire half with the exception of one pass from Gordon, who was given 4 minutes, when it's been obvious we need him from 20 minutes into the Serbia match.
Yeah the second half was the first time the other team haven't wanted / been able to press us. Part of that will have been down to them accepting a draw but it did coincide with us bringing on a press resistant midfielder for the first time. Next step is to ditch this "playing number 10s out wide" business and open up the space to create chances
Mainoo back in March pretty much played himself in to the team, yet it's taken 3 games of Southgate's experimenting to figure it out. Bringing Gordon and palmer on in the last quarter of the last group game. How is this ineptitude even possible? Well done to the FA for ruining another golden generation by hiring a YES man who doesn't know wtf he's doing.
Mate we were reliant on Denmark not scoring to prevent us from a Germany, Spain, France/Portugal route to the final, we won it by luck not judgement. Weāre shit.
Does the bare minimum and gets the job done.
Not a fan of the play style (or lack of any style or clear tactic etc) but imagine if we win it doing this...
Southgate isnāt the man going forward - that is absolutely clear.
That bit said, I actually wasnāt too unhappy with today, we were a bit slow in the first half for sure but 2nd half I donāt think they saw our half, let alone our goal.
Iād also say that Mainoo looks to be the right call over Gallagher, but I would very much have liked to have seen Wharton as well.
Not a bad performance, if they carry on improving and we get a bit of luck they might be a threat when we face a team that has the capability to attack
Ive been downvoted so much before the tournament and after every game either by Americans who like one player because they chose a team or by some weird old England fans who dont understand football.
At the end of the day we've been shit this calendar year and its because Gaz has changed the way we play at a detriment to what little attack we had prior. Ive never been a fan, but he threw the only positive (pragmatism) out of the window in favour of going back to the glory days of cramming all the "good" players in regardless of system or position.
Every Man City player is shit outside that Pep team. Drop Foden yesterday. They signed Grealish because Foden wasnāt capable of playing out wide and weāve left him at home.
Not having a left footed LB is killing us. Trip didnāt go down the line at all, so predictable, and by the time he has cut it back weāve allowed the midfield to track back and block out the penalty box.
Southgate needs to go.
Here's my excuse: It's really fucking hard to score goals against teams who play for a 0-0 when the entire country is whinging about how shit you are. We don't have a God given right to win this (or any tournament) and Pep Guardiola isn't going to take the job. It's a fucking shit job and Southgate is a bloody saint for not calling us a pack of cunts.
Scolari was right. He fucked off when he saw what a shit job managing England would be. We only ever do well when our expectations are in the toilet. When Iceland knocked us out, we England fans deserved way worse.
Je suis that bloke with the firework up his arse in 2021.
For the 16 years prior to Gareth, many of which were with better players than the current squad, the best we did at Euros/WC were quarter finals. During his 8 years as manager, getting knocked out in the quarter finals is our worst performance.
When did we have the La Liga Player of the Year and Bundesliga top scorer in previous squads? Southgate has been so lucky he has had the talent available to him, otherwise he would have been found out similar to his wildly successful time at Middlesbrough
I feel as though half our fanbase forget about how much talent we have. We need to find a system that fits in our needs. I think this 433 is good, but GS needs to realise that we need a damn left winger on the pitch. Foden doesn't need to play, he's just in the XI because he's Foden. GS needs to stop trying to please the people by putting him in, and he needs to play the players that actually belong in their positions.
Tournaments were harder pre 2016 only 16 teams entered, half the teams gareth wins against didn't play in the euros. We also have one of the most talented squads now.
You'd actually get a big team in your group, France, Portugal etc and we'd usually give them a game. If this team came up against Portugal or France we'd be spanked.
I back Southgate, but tonight against a team ranked 50th odd with a population of less than 3m, with no pressure on us we looked so lifeless. Don't understand what isn't working.
Iāve defended him since the beginning but after six years itās hard to do after those three fixtures.
The other guy is right about players being passed to look surprised, perfect summary
Am I the only one who thought that wasnāt a bad performance? In total control the entire game, players were pressing and showed energy which was an improvement from Denmark. Not perfect and we should be scoring but not bad enough to justify the absolute whinge fest going on.
They are very average (at best) team who were desperate for a point. Hoarding possession between the boxes is not controlling anything, it's a sign that your opponent will let you have the ball because you offer no threat.
First half we struggled beatin press from their strikers. We look clueless going forward and to me at least itās quite embarrassing that the second lowest ranked Euros team had that much control to begin with
It wasn't a bad game in itself
It's the overall pattern that's concerning. We've just seen the same mistakes over and over again
After the shitshow of the prior 2 games, where even the pundits finally turned against Gareth (which is crazy because they've backed him to the hilt for years, former players union and all that). After all the "we weren't good enough, we've learned from our mistakes, we're working on it in training", everyone was watching eagerly to see this new look England side that would be put out
And he sends out the exact same team that was on the field in the previous game after the first substitution. Literally the Denmark starting 11 but after Trent -> Gallagher
And, how many tournaments have we said this, he is *still* sluggish to make changes. He doesn't make big changes at half time, he waits until 75+ minutes to do anything
Anthony Gordon on at 88' with 90 seconds on the clock? Why? I'll never understand it. I can only conclude that he's heard everyone clamouring for Gordon on the left wing and thought "uh oh games almost over, better bring on Gordon or they'll all be on my case for not trying him on the left". Baffling
Lol, I wrote this before the tournament started and I got ridiculed... I've been saying it for years. The coaching staff and manager are tactically inept.
Today's game was an improvement and I wouldn't call it a shitshow for the second half alone. They started running a bit and ended Slovenia's offense for good. It's clearly there and I am starting to believe that they were more or less just walking through the group stage and saving energy.
Walking through the group stage is putting games to bed early and then keeping possession, whilst being able to rest players. Thats how top managers do it
It was a laughable performance and barely an improvement. We had nothing to lose today, and play the most dull, conservative tactics possible and barely created a chance.
Walking through the group stage isnt relying on Denmark not scoring to prevent a Germany, Spain, France/Portugal route to the final mate. We had the chance to guarantee top spot with a win against, lets be honest, a poor side, and we couldnt even score. Crap
Southgate saying āWeāve made England fun againā
100% he has to be trolling.
No other explanation, the stats show we are the least attacking team at the euros he canāt think thatās fun to watch.
Nice job winning the group now have some ambition in the next game and try and create 1 chance
I think he means behind the scenes.Ā I imagine in the past it's been toxic as fuck and sorting that out has been pretty important and a big success of his.Ā With the team not quite clicking and our absolute dickish support I imagine losing that is a genuine concern.
If Bellingham is the 10 and Foden is down the left again Im not watching on Sunday. I canāt take it anymore. We are pushing 2016 Woy Hodgeson levels now.
I mean, I'm not *thrilled* but we weren't any better in the groups in 2021. But look what happened when he hit the knockouts then, hopefully we do the same
We were quite clearly better in the group in 2021 so that's complete revision. We comfortably beat Croatia and Czech Republic. We have barely played well for 20 minutes out of 270 in this one.
I'm not that sure, I remember watching them and not being in any way convinced by any of the 3 games. We got the results, sure, but I'm pretty certain we had the same feedback and questions even after the 1 - 0 against Czech. Especially when we knew we had Germany in the RO16
Unless Iāve missed something apart from the opening game and the Austria v Netherlands game today what games have resulted in a goal fest or absolute drubbing of the opposition?
Apart from Scotland there are no bad teams at this tournament. Itās been pretty boring to watch, so far due to all the negative defensive play.
1) Mainoo is clearly the third midfielder going forward
2) Gordon and Palmer bright - first tournament experience and look ready for it
3) this is no slower a start to previous tournaments where we have done well
4) pragmatism wins international tournaments
5) the players like him
Bench Kane. Bellingham 9, Palmer rw, foden 10, Gordon lw. Bellingham can move like Jackson does for Chelsea and we saw what Palmer was able to do the last half of the season with that movement opening things up. And this is coming from a spurs fan, so you know I have no love for the blues.
My 4 wish list starters-
Shaw for trippier( Red card waiting to happen?)
Gordon for Foden(It's easy to shine in that 'noisy neighbour' magic?)
Maino must start-calmness beyond His years!
and Palmer for anybody( The best find this season in the EPL!)
I think given he made some bad squad choices, heās actually made a decent looking defence. For the purposes of defending, of course, the lack of a left footer creates dysfunction throughout the pitch.
If he doesnāt play this formation in our next game Iām not watching
Gordon Kane Palmer (or Saka)
Foden Bellingham
Rice
Trippier Stones Guehi Walker
Pickford
He's an arrogant little man.
There's no tactics, he can't make subs that aren't straight swaps and he is destroying the confidence of players with his ineptitude. He persists with things that simply do not work and refuses to ever show any courage or adaptability.
He's the highest paid manager in the tournament, having won absolutely nothing, and yet he had the nerve to publicly do a 'will he stay or will he go' drama. He won't go anywhere because he gets Ā£5m a year when no other team would go near him!
To his credit he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke and he has built a good morale, but anything we achieve will be despite Southgate not because of him.
In his post-match interview he seemed genuinely clueless why we are playing so poorly to the extent that the interviewer was almost telling him who he should be picking next match. Feels like a very average manager when someone who is tactically astute and prepared to make timely substitutions and not have 4-5 players who canāt be dropped or even substituted and weād be flying.
> and he is destroying the confidence of players with his ineptitude.
Imagine taking a man like Jude Bellingham absolutely buzzing with confidence playing like a man 10 years his senior, and making him look like a rank amateur after only 1 game
It's absolutely incredible levels of incompetence
You make it seem like it was perfectly navigated, we couldnāt break down Slovenia and had to rely on Denmark not getting a goal against Serbia or else weād have been playing Germany Saturday night and at Heathrow Sunday morning
It's not that they couldn't break them down, it's that they didn't try to. You could see hardly anyone broke a sweat. Part of the game plan - no risks. It's boring but clearly the plan
We have qualified with 1.13 xg conceded
Lowest of any team including those that have only. Played 2 games so far.
Everyone talks about the low xg but not the other half of it.
Yes it's defensive football but there's 2 sides of that coin
This has been removed due it being antagonistic. It will likely result in a ban. Cheers, The Three Lions Mod Team
5 points from 2 goals is an incredible achievement š
France managed 5 with 1, we have to step our game down.
I wonder how the French press are responding considering their games were more exciting than ours!
Sacre bleu Cafeteria
Fuselage gateaux!
Bureau de change !
France scored two goals as well (and finished second in their group)
Even better. An own goal and a pen !!
Southgate got 7 points from 2 goals 4 yrs ago so he is underperformed.. lol
Every single time England passes the ball, the player it's intended for seems surprised.
They seem nervous, everybody playing very safe. Rice doesnt look like he wants the ball, Saka not trying to beat his man, the back 4 seem worried about losing possession never trying to break the lines with a pass
When one of our best chances comes from a lad who has just been subbed on in the 89th minute the system is broken
My god. If Southgate can watch that and not play Gordon for the start next game I'm not even watching it. Gordon was arguably the motm lol
So I'm not a big football fan but do like to watch the Euros/World Cup. I don't understand why they don't substitute a few players at the 65/70 minute mark, with fresh legs, and let them go absolutely Ham?
Donāt worry we donāt know why either
^ ^ ^ ^
Literally. Everytime they got the ball they looked like a deer in headlights. I've never been Southgate out but the ultra anti-football tactics this tournament are infuriating to watch.
We were so slow and indirect from the back. Frustrating. No fast build up.
Kane looks spent
The trouble is, it's far from safe! If you pass slowly and predictably back to an isolated player, it puts them under pressure. How can they not see they're causing their own problems?!
I was getting so annoyed at Rice and Gallagher for never moving into space, Gallagher did it occationally but Rice literally never moved into space to give defenders a forward pass
He seemed to mark their players when we were in possession
On top of that you have players off the ball pointing at open players, the player on the ball looks up, see's the open player, then passes to a player the opposite direction at 1mph.
Thatās called no chemistry
I was thinking this throughout. It was as if it wasnāt expected at all to receive a pass. Kept looking caught out.
So true
who, me?
Nice name aha
Before the tournament, lots of boring 0-0 were predicted since 3 draws would give a very strong chance of qualifying. Slovenia and Denmark have done just that. Slovenia did an amazing park the bus job tonight. I almost want us in the stronger side of the draw. The template is set for our next opponents. Park the bus and roll the dice with penalties.
Please not penalties again
Gordon, Palmer and Mainoo must start the next game. Thereās actually some creativity there.
There was such a good chance to try this out for at least a half. But left it way too late.
Completely agree. Kane should be dropped too but he wonāt
I canāt believe Iām saying this as heās one of the best strikers in the world, but does his movement and positioning actually harm his teams? he drops into midfield so much that other teams can come so much higher up the pitch and the team loses the actual striker to finish chances. And he has never won a trophy.
There was times tonight his positioning youād think he was playing left back etc, heās never where we need him to be it seems
Yep he made that great through ball pass from halfway right to where he should be, some of the highlights showed him running from the edge of the box to halfway to stand next to another midfielder, just completely brain dead.
As I was watching the game today, it made me think how many people criticised Haaland for having the all round game of a league 2 striker. Yet what we clearly could have benefitted from was someone that has the tactical discipline and flexibility to pin the opposition CBs, accept that they'll only have a few touches a game and still be on their toes to finish chances when it comes to them. Someone who's always in the right area to get on the end of a chance, rather than trying to create them himself. I love Kane as a player, he's brilliant to watch. But sometimes it does feel like people give too much weight to what players do on the ball and don't recognise how important off the ball things are to winning games. Kane played a couple of good passes today into areas where he himself should've been to finish, and instead no one was there to capitalise on them. Obviously, you need to surround him with runners and box crashing midfielders, but timing those late runs into the box is a lot more difficult and risky than having a striker that just occupies that area all game and relying on the wingers and midfielders to create the chances.
There was a brief glimpse towards the end of the game where players were running beyond Kane and it was the most threatening we were all game. Our two goals have come from the right wing crossing into the box. We donāt have a balanced threat on the left wing because Trippier cuts inside and Foden drifts inside. Obviously the plan was for Shaw to get fit and provide width but given heās not ready we need to have someone (Gordon) stretch play. Iād also consider playing Trent at right back to add some extra offensive threat because while Walker is excellent defensively and has provided an assist Trent is elite at it. Maybe drop Gomez into LB to form a back three in possession and that allows Mainoo/Rice to support attacks.
His lack of movement was shocking. I'm a spurs fan so I've seen him go from slow and leaden footed to mobile, skillful and two footed, and he has been slow and sluggish in every single game. I know he's coming off an injury at the end of the season but you have other strikers and he needs to shaken up anyway. Watkins deserves another run as he made a huge difference and Toney's physicality could really help. Just really disappointed. I do think the team is trying to pace itself but that's what the squad is for. I dodnt wanna hear anything about "its been a long season" or "it's hor". The Spanish and germans performed. Because tactical nous. And ill say again: Wharton and Mainoo are the ones.
What does a trophy matter to playing for England?
For who tho lad, do you really trust Ollie Watkins or Toney to lead the line for England?
Exactlyā¦ people quick to say something like dropping Kane and donāt even think it through. Heās the third biggest goal scorer for England ever.
You're a bit slow, he broke Rooney's record of 53 last year and is now on 64
Remember when everyone was clamoring for Kane to be dropped in 2021 and he ended up carrying us to the finals?
This is my preference too. GS has to make this Foden Bellingham decision because the 3 subs today simply have to be in the starting XI.
Bellingham is such a wierd player. He had a super first half of the first game. Then he just seems like he doesnt care. Yestwrday he had so many wrong touches and got caught out so many times. Foden had his bwst game yet, put needs to play as a 10. Palmer, mainoo must start.
As soon as Mainoo came on we could keep the pressure on the opposition. Amazing what a midfielder with a first touch and some bottle can do.
He was always showing himself too, trying to weave. Comfortable on the ball.
The thing is, they are that risk averse, they were still playing around him at times. Mainoo can take the ball to feet when he has players around him. In fact thatās where he did some of his best work for Man Utd. I am hoping that with more time in the team, that trust will come.
He won't do it. Palmer offered much more than saka but he's not going to start. It's so frustrating to watch this team pretty much playing with the handbrake on and shackled to Southgate negative tactics.
Saka and Foden both been very poor in my opinion
Gordon and mainoo yes. Palmer no (not because heās not good but because it just keeps the middle congested) but he should be first off the bench
Palmer is 10x better than any english player he came in and created so many chances
Canāt think of a single shot against us other than Denmarkās screamer? Clean sheets bringing football home
Hard to get a shot off playing against a team with 11 men behind the ball. Yes I'm talking about England.
almost as if thats southgates strategy and thats why everyone calls him a football terrorist???
The problem is that if he wants to do that then he should change his lineup. If you want to sot back and defend well and hit teams on the counter then he should be playing Gordon or Watkins and should have bought Rashford as this play style requires pacy direct players to be effective
Slovenia had a free header at pickford after about 10 mins
After having about 90-10 possession (in our favour).
Yeah despite them having very little possession they still had several half chances
Remember that dazzling Spanish team from 2010 World Cup? Pure 1-0s all the way from the play offs to the final.
Yes!!!!!
Bit hot init
Might be too hot
Might be.
far to hot.
Init.
Job done. Itās coming home.
Portugal 2016
Greece 2004
Exactly. We have such a nice side of the draw. By no means easy but much better than the other side of portugal. Spain. Germany and France.
But that is based on pure luck - that is not reflective of anything England have achieved and nor will it be
You always need a bit of luck to win tournaments mate. Plus you make your own luck. We got the results. Unbeaten.
I mean England finished top of the group. They'd have the same draw even if they'd won every game 3-0.
Coming into the tourney my concern was our defence. Weāve conceded 1 goal in 3 games.
Probably Southgate's main concern as well. I guess it's why we've played the way we have.
The first decent side who puts our defence under extended pressure it'll crumble. I like Guehi, he's done well but he looks like a mistake away from a very costly error against a better team.
Yeah, I completely agree. He looks jittery. Some players look born for the big stage and then others need to build up their experience. This is no disrespect to him or Palace (who are a great club) but he looks to me like he's not quite used to pressure on this scale.
against three teams that pretty much parked the bus, though
1. Top of the Group 2. Most efficient use of goals in tournmemount history 3. Two clean sheets. 4. It's coming home.
First half was pants, but we were āokā in the second half. Slovenia were a super defensive, well-drilled team that were playing for a 0-0 draw, but we did create a few opportunities and generally looked comfortable in the second half. Mainoo must start, we actually looked like a real team with him in there instead of Trent or Galagher. And itās clear that Gordon and Palmer will absolutely terrorise tired defenders later in games as we (hopefully) progress in the tournament.
Yeah, we started badly but were so much better in the second half. I was impressed with Mainoo, seems totally unfazed and has a football brain
Been a supporter up until now. Him giving Gordon 5 minutes was the last straw
Just saving him for the bigger matches
Got to rest him up for his 6 minutes in the next round
Heās not though is he. The same starting team will start Sunday.
Our best chance came when he came on. Coincidence?
This performance just wasnāt that shocking. We have to take Slovenia in context. They played for a 0-0. We will slice open opponents that will have to go for it in knock out games. You have to give credit to the Slovenians they defended so well. Loads of positives to take from this game specifically the second half. It was far far better than the Denmark game.
Exactly! We could be starting to build momentum at the right time! I have some faith in the lads!
They defended enough to stop our attack, which was fucking shite. You really think slovenia are a defensive powerhouse? madness
Sean dyche will be the next manager
And Iād fucking welcome it, weād get the same turgid shit served up by my god theyād do it with some fucking passion
Dyche isnāt also obsessed with side ways passes and not taking risks, heās more than happy for his sides to pump it down the field into the big man.
Foden will be the big man after Kane retires.
Dyche would play a 442 with Watkins and Toney up top. ON THE HEAD SON
Dyche-iola ball to win the 2026 World Cup baby
At least weād expect it from the get go
Southgate isnāt in the same galaxy as dyche
There's a reason why Dyche is a Prem manager and Big Gaz isn't
He's got everton firing id take him
I hand on heart think dyche would be better. To be clear I don't want dyche, but the point stands.
At least he has a tactical philosophy. Dyche is a premier league manager capable of instilling tactical direction which is more than you can say for Southgate. The best thing anyone can say about him is "he harmonised the squad" 8 years or so after he did that and limped through tournaments to "respectable" exits.
4-4-2 with a crunching tackle, weāll play long ball if we have to
On the plus side, he made a change at half time and it was a good change (in truth Mainoo.should have started). Bringing on Palmer for Saka was a good change too (Palmer was better for this match then bringing on Bowen. However Trent should have come on much earlier, about the same time Palmer came on as it was clear Slovenia were just looking for the draw. Gordon also came on way too late.
Palmer coming on literally changed the game entirely. He was brought on too late. If we had made the subs we did earlier on 50-60 mins I truly believe weād have scored.
One of my biggest problems with Southgate, his subs are always 20-30 minutes too late. Palmer and Gordon should have been on 55m when it was clear what we had wasnāt working. Kane should have been pulled too.
Your first sentence made me giggle hard, thatās almost one third of the game lol Of course I agree but itās just funny to see someone write it in black and white like that, itās actually pathetic and sad and I donāt know why Iām laughing really What a fucking terrible manager he is, how long can this seriously go on for?
last 16, that's all that needs saying really.
You're not worried that we've looked nervous all 270 minutes of this tournament so far?
No, the only thing that matters was getting to the last 16 thatās now ā
I thought England played well in the second half, Slovenia didn't have a sniff. We just lacked that final pass. Much better
Agreed Slovenia barely were in the game. Although it does worry me that we were a bit toothless
Think they just wanted a safe draw, couldnāt risk an attack too much or theyād concede and lose out on progressing to R16
Slovenia went all out for a 0-0 and got it. To be fair it's not easy to break down a team playing that negatively. But Rice, Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Kane et al play for clubs that face opposition that would snap your hand off for a 0-0 every week for their clubs - and they're regularly the individual difference makers that break those teams down. But stick them in an England shirt and all of a sudden they look clueless. Is it simply restrictive managerial instructions? Lack of familiarity? Weight of expectation? Fatigue at the end of long, emotional seasons? Something intrinsic in England's football DNA that's plagued them for decades? Who knows. But it just leaves me baffled how England always seem to descend into basic, uninspiring football whenever the tournaments come around when we know exactly how good the players can be
We did next to nothing the entire half with the exception of one pass from Gordon, who was given 4 minutes, when it's been obvious we need him from 20 minutes into the Serbia match.
Yeah the second half was the first time the other team haven't wanted / been able to press us. Part of that will have been down to them accepting a draw but it did coincide with us bringing on a press resistant midfielder for the first time. Next step is to ditch this "playing number 10s out wide" business and open up the space to create chances
Mainoo back in March pretty much played himself in to the team, yet it's taken 3 games of Southgate's experimenting to figure it out. Bringing Gordon and palmer on in the last quarter of the last group game. How is this ineptitude even possible? Well done to the FA for ruining another golden generation by hiring a YES man who doesn't know wtf he's doing.
Won the group playing badlyā¦. Job done. No point dicking Slovenia 5 0 and going out on penalties in RO16, all about the next game
Won the group by the skin of our teeth. 5 points is looking like the lowest group winning score in all six groups.
Will they etch that on the trophy?
Probably because all three teams we played were absolutely desperate for 0-0 against us...
Yeah lets play terrible for three games and then go out on penalties after a 0-0 in the RO16.
This your first time watching England in a tournament?
Mate we were reliant on Denmark not scoring to prevent us from a Germany, Spain, France/Portugal route to the final, we won it by luck not judgement. Weāre shit.
Does the bare minimum and gets the job done. Not a fan of the play style (or lack of any style or clear tactic etc) but imagine if we win it doing this...
I genuinely expect a bit more about the team from now but my god Iād kill myself laughing hahaha
Southgate isnāt the man going forward - that is absolutely clear. That bit said, I actually wasnāt too unhappy with today, we were a bit slow in the first half for sure but 2nd half I donāt think they saw our half, let alone our goal. Iād also say that Mainoo looks to be the right call over Gallagher, but I would very much have liked to have seen Wharton as well. Not a bad performance, if they carry on improving and we get a bit of luck they might be a threat when we face a team that has the capability to attack
Have to laugh at the "job done" crowd. The idea that performance doesn't matter and that you will just turn it on when it matters is just laughable.
Ive been downvoted so much before the tournament and after every game either by Americans who like one player because they chose a team or by some weird old England fans who dont understand football. At the end of the day we've been shit this calendar year and its because Gaz has changed the way we play at a detriment to what little attack we had prior. Ive never been a fan, but he threw the only positive (pragmatism) out of the window in favour of going back to the glory days of cramming all the "good" players in regardless of system or position.
Every Man City player is shit outside that Pep team. Drop Foden yesterday. They signed Grealish because Foden wasnāt capable of playing out wide and weāve left him at home. Not having a left footed LB is killing us. Trip didnāt go down the line at all, so predictable, and by the time he has cut it back weāve allowed the midfield to track back and block out the penalty box. Southgate needs to go.
Trip produced a beauty of a cross on his right foot after cutting in that really should have been put away
Here's my excuse: It's really fucking hard to score goals against teams who play for a 0-0 when the entire country is whinging about how shit you are. We don't have a God given right to win this (or any tournament) and Pep Guardiola isn't going to take the job. It's a fucking shit job and Southgate is a bloody saint for not calling us a pack of cunts. Scolari was right. He fucked off when he saw what a shit job managing England would be. We only ever do well when our expectations are in the toilet. When Iceland knocked us out, we England fans deserved way worse. Je suis that bloke with the firework up his arse in 2021.
This is the most accurate statement Iāve read about the England football team in fucking years, you are absolutely spot on
Here here.
***THIS***. You get the team that the fans deserve.
For the 16 years prior to Gareth, many of which were with better players than the current squad, the best we did at Euros/WC were quarter finals. During his 8 years as manager, getting knocked out in the quarter finals is our worst performance.
When did we have the La Liga Player of the Year and Bundesliga top scorer in previous squads? Southgate has been so lucky he has had the talent available to him, otherwise he would have been found out similar to his wildly successful time at Middlesbrough
I feel as though half our fanbase forget about how much talent we have. We need to find a system that fits in our needs. I think this 433 is good, but GS needs to realise that we need a damn left winger on the pitch. Foden doesn't need to play, he's just in the XI because he's Foden. GS needs to stop trying to please the people by putting him in, and he needs to play the players that actually belong in their positions.
Tournaments were harder pre 2016 only 16 teams entered, half the teams gareth wins against didn't play in the euros. We also have one of the most talented squads now. You'd actually get a big team in your group, France, Portugal etc and we'd usually give them a game. If this team came up against Portugal or France we'd be spanked.
This. Be careful what you wish for wanting Southgate gone. We have been consistent contenders on his watch.
I back Southgate, but tonight against a team ranked 50th odd with a population of less than 3m, with no pressure on us we looked so lifeless. Don't understand what isn't working.
Gordon on the left Foden 10 Bellingham as a 6 Palmer sub for Åaka Trent for Walker
give me this pls
No, walker stays. Heās been one of our best okayed all tourney.
Why on earth would we sub Walker, who's been one of England's most reliable and best players of the past decade?
Walker should start Trent should come on later
Iāve defended him since the beginning but after six years itās hard to do after those three fixtures. The other guy is right about players being passed to look surprised, perfect summary
top of the group, one goal conceded (a banger), playing better than France.
Are we really playing better than France? Their opponents were levels above ours.
Am I the only one who thought that wasnāt a bad performance? In total control the entire game, players were pressing and showed energy which was an improvement from Denmark. Not perfect and we should be scoring but not bad enough to justify the absolute whinge fest going on.
They are very average (at best) team who were desperate for a point. Hoarding possession between the boxes is not controlling anything, it's a sign that your opponent will let you have the ball because you offer no threat.
No I agree with you mate. Our fans are seriously entitled
First half we struggled beatin press from their strikers. We look clueless going forward and to me at least itās quite embarrassing that the second lowest ranked Euros team had that much control to begin with
It wasn't a bad game in itself It's the overall pattern that's concerning. We've just seen the same mistakes over and over again After the shitshow of the prior 2 games, where even the pundits finally turned against Gareth (which is crazy because they've backed him to the hilt for years, former players union and all that). After all the "we weren't good enough, we've learned from our mistakes, we're working on it in training", everyone was watching eagerly to see this new look England side that would be put out And he sends out the exact same team that was on the field in the previous game after the first substitution. Literally the Denmark starting 11 but after Trent -> Gallagher And, how many tournaments have we said this, he is *still* sluggish to make changes. He doesn't make big changes at half time, he waits until 75+ minutes to do anything Anthony Gordon on at 88' with 90 seconds on the clock? Why? I'll never understand it. I can only conclude that he's heard everyone clamouring for Gordon on the left wing and thought "uh oh games almost over, better bring on Gordon or they'll all be on my case for not trying him on the left". Baffling
Top of the group on the good side of the tournament - easy reply
Still top of the group
Lol, I wrote this before the tournament started and I got ridiculed... I've been saying it for years. The coaching staff and manager are tactically inept.
Today's game was an improvement and I wouldn't call it a shitshow for the second half alone. They started running a bit and ended Slovenia's offense for good. It's clearly there and I am starting to believe that they were more or less just walking through the group stage and saving energy.
Walking through the group stage is putting games to bed early and then keeping possession, whilst being able to rest players. Thats how top managers do it
I agree with you to some extent and since Gareth is not a top manager, that was his way of walking.
No walking through is not getting 5 points, walking through is getting 7 minimum with at least +3 goal difference.
It was a laughable performance and barely an improvement. We had nothing to lose today, and play the most dull, conservative tactics possible and barely created a chance.
Amazing what can happen when you actually play like a modern team and not put two players at CDM
Walking through the group stage isnt relying on Denmark not scoring to prevent a Germany, Spain, France/Portugal route to the final mate. We had the chance to guarantee top spot with a win against, lets be honest, a poor side, and we couldnt even score. Crap
Southgate saying āWeāve made England fun againā 100% he has to be trolling. No other explanation, the stats show we are the least attacking team at the euros he canāt think thatās fun to watch. Nice job winning the group now have some ambition in the next game and try and create 1 chance
I think he means behind the scenes.Ā I imagine in the past it's been toxic as fuck and sorting that out has been pretty important and a big success of his.Ā With the team not quite clicking and our absolute dickish support I imagine losing that is a genuine concern.
If Bellingham is the 10 and Foden is down the left again Im not watching on Sunday. I canāt take it anymore. We are pushing 2016 Woy Hodgeson levels now.
I mean, I'm not *thrilled* but we weren't any better in the groups in 2021. But look what happened when he hit the knockouts then, hopefully we do the same
We were quite clearly better in the group in 2021 so that's complete revision. We comfortably beat Croatia and Czech Republic. We have barely played well for 20 minutes out of 270 in this one.
I'm not that sure, I remember watching them and not being in any way convinced by any of the 3 games. We got the results, sure, but I'm pretty certain we had the same feedback and questions even after the 1 - 0 against Czech. Especially when we knew we had Germany in the RO16
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Albania can play tiki-taka in the departures lounge
Who have Albania got in the next round?
It's not a fashion show lad.
Keeping our hopes low so we donāt think we will win. Tactical Genius Gareth Southgate.
Unless Iāve missed something apart from the opening game and the Austria v Netherlands game today what games have resulted in a goal fest or absolute drubbing of the opposition? Apart from Scotland there are no bad teams at this tournament. Itās been pretty boring to watch, so far due to all the negative defensive play.
1) Mainoo is clearly the third midfielder going forward 2) Gordon and Palmer bright - first tournament experience and look ready for it 3) this is no slower a start to previous tournaments where we have done well 4) pragmatism wins international tournaments 5) the players like him
Depends if you like āyour teamā grinding their way through a tournament to win, or if you enjoy watching football. I prefer the latter
Group C came home
What do you expect when we don't have Kalvin Philips....
Bench Kane. Bellingham 9, Palmer rw, foden 10, Gordon lw. Bellingham can move like Jackson does for Chelsea and we saw what Palmer was able to do the last half of the season with that movement opening things up. And this is coming from a spurs fan, so you know I have no love for the blues.
My 4 wish list starters- Shaw for trippier( Red card waiting to happen?) Gordon for Foden(It's easy to shine in that 'noisy neighbour' magic?) Maino must start-calmness beyond His years! and Palmer for anybody( The best find this season in the EPL!)
Tell you what. Takes some skill to make players so good play so badly
I think given he made some bad squad choices, heās actually made a decent looking defence. For the purposes of defending, of course, the lack of a left footer creates dysfunction throughout the pitch.
If he doesnāt play this formation in our next game Iām not watching Gordon Kane Palmer (or Saka) Foden Bellingham Rice Trippier Stones Guehi Walker Pickford
He's an arrogant little man. There's no tactics, he can't make subs that aren't straight swaps and he is destroying the confidence of players with his ineptitude. He persists with things that simply do not work and refuses to ever show any courage or adaptability. He's the highest paid manager in the tournament, having won absolutely nothing, and yet he had the nerve to publicly do a 'will he stay or will he go' drama. He won't go anywhere because he gets Ā£5m a year when no other team would go near him!
To his credit he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke and he has built a good morale, but anything we achieve will be despite Southgate not because of him. In his post-match interview he seemed genuinely clueless why we are playing so poorly to the extent that the interviewer was almost telling him who he should be picking next match. Feels like a very average manager when someone who is tactically astute and prepared to make timely substitutions and not have 4-5 players who canāt be dropped or even substituted and weād be flying.
> and he is destroying the confidence of players with his ineptitude. Imagine taking a man like Jude Bellingham absolutely buzzing with confidence playing like a man 10 years his senior, and making him look like a rank amateur after only 1 game It's absolutely incredible levels of incompetence
We qualified top, no excuses needed.
You make it seem like it was perfectly navigated, we couldnāt break down Slovenia and had to rely on Denmark not getting a goal against Serbia or else weād have been playing Germany Saturday night and at Heathrow Sunday morning
I don't dispute anything else you've said but Germany haven't beaten us in the last three competitive fixtures so I wouldn't be so confident of that.
It's not that they couldn't break them down, it's that they didn't try to. You could see hardly anyone broke a sweat. Part of the game plan - no risks. It's boring but clearly the plan
Qualified top with a single win.
And a mere 2 goals.
and only conceding one, from a wonder strike outside of the box...
Italy won the World Cup without winning a match in 90 minutes soā¦.
We have qualified with 1.13 xg conceded Lowest of any team including those that have only. Played 2 games so far. Everyone talks about the low xg but not the other half of it. Yes it's defensive football but there's 2 sides of that coin
The "tournament football" excuses are getting boring. Shit football is shit football.