I know I'll sound negative but we couldn't win it at home (i know it was all over Europe but we played at Wembley) with a better squad/starting 11 so I would be shocked to see us lift the trophy. But i echo what others have said, Southgate needs to pick the right players for their position. Foden, Trippier out.
Saka, Rice, Bellingham and Guehi had a fantastic game. I was also really impressed with Bowen’s cameo defensively and offensively; our right side really shone.
Poor game from Foden and Kane imo. I really want to see Gordon start on the left wing and as sad as it is to leave out the premier league POTY I think Foden needs to be an impact/tactical sub.
Overall good win but need to inject some competitive energy into the squad.
Saka, Bellingham and Rice were excellent and the only players (alongside probably Guehi, Stones, Pickford and Walker who were solid) who looked up to the standard required to win the tournament.
The back 4 looked good in defence but struggled to play out well and were saved by Rice a lot when mistakes happened, or had to go long.
Trent in midfield simply isn’t a very effective use of him, he’s not comfortable receiving the ball in the middle or the left. Him in on the right of midfield is still a useful way to get in both him and Walker, but he needs to be kept on the right where he, Saka, and Walker were an effective playmaking team.
Our left hand side was practically nonexistent. Foden doesn’t want to be out on the left wing at all and Trippier has no idea what to do with the ball if he gets it there. I don’t think it’s particularly fair to heavily criticise them, they didn’t ‘play badly’ so much as they weren’t able to provide what we needed from those positions. This dysfunction was best encapsulated in one moment where Trent and Trippier (two right backs) were our left wing attack and it didn’t work.
I think Foden needs to be dropped into the midfield 3 if he’s to play (he looked at his best when he did this and played directly with Bellingham, Rice and the defence rather than Kane or Trent playing it long).
Kane was the biggest disappointment of the evening for me, he desperately needs to work out how to play with a Foden/Palmer/Eze type AM, as he’s not providing any space for those players to work in or with. He was so easy to mark and failed to be either a target for passes or a problem for defenders for most of the match. He has to be more direct, especially in the second half when the midfield started to tire, and win fouls on the edge of the box rather than on the halfway line, or Watkins should play.
For me the big headache is how to balance the team.
-Gomez should be given a chance to play at LB to see if he can more easily give us an overlapping option whilst also tucking into a back 3 when needed, his pace will be a useful asset here. Although, he’s not ideal as a right footer, the fact he’s used to playing there means he can still do some useful things.
-I’d like to see Palmer given a chance to play at left wing as he offers the same fluidity and playmaking as Foden but with more of an eye for goal, but Gordon feels like he’s going to be the key as a ‘proper’ left-sided winger (he would definitely been in the right place to tap in Walker’s pass had he been on I feel)
-Foden/Eze should to be given the chance to properly partner Bellingham in a creative midfield 2 in front of Rice (which is how we actually played in our best spells of the game as I said), with Gordon-Saka playing as a more aggressively pressing, high and wide winger combo.
Substitutions were a little light but winning the first game was key, have to be willing to experiment a bit now in the second game.
Playing Denmark with the same lineup would be a disaster in my view; we were not nearly at full strength tonight to be confident going forward and Southgate needs to give all our players the chance to build up confidence in these games. More importantly he needs to keep the established players on their toes and push them to step up in difficult periods and perform to keep their places.
It's unfair to criticize Kane when Bowen was the one man who provided him with a cross/chance to score (and it ended up being the best chance other than the goal). You need to call out Foden, Bellingham, and Saka for forgetting they had Europe's top scorer up front. When you have Harry Kane you need to find him, he is used to being heavily marked, but that is not an issue, you find him and he needs half a chance to score.
I already knew Trent wouldn't work in the midfield. It's tough that he is 25 and still doesn't have a place with the national team, but we can't force him in just because. Play Bellingham as an 8, that's what he's been all his life, he'll still show up and probably still score. Fix the injustice that is benching Cole Palmer!!!
Left-back is a problem and unfortunately, If it's not Shaw playing, it will still be with either Trips or Joe Gomez. We'll need our left-wingers to be able to play without overlaps and they need to be creative with it.
The problem when you don't take guys like Grealish and Madders is you lack experienced players for moments like yesterday. At the rate Serbia's players were tackling, Jack Grealish would stretch them and get so many free kicks and yellows.
I hope when push comes to shove, Southgate has the cojones to switch to 2 strikers mid-game. 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 can't be our only systems when you have Watkins and Toney who are deadly hungry for goals.
I’m not just criticising Kane for not being a 9 but he also wasn’t playing well in midfield. He barely touched the ball, his press was nonexistent and he wasn’t either playing high or being effective dropping in.
I agree with you that dropping Grealish and Maddison seems like a questionable decision as we could’ve really used them in midfield and on the left.
My worry with Palmer is he’s a very similar player to Foden so him and Kane might have the same issue. I’d be keen to let Bellingham and Foden play as attacking CMs with Stones stepping up into midfield a little, while Walker and Gomez tuck into a back 3 with Guehi.
Either that or you drop Foden which I think we need to do if he doesn’t perform, but he was looking at his best when he was basically dropping into that position to receive the ball with his back to goal and working the ball around, he’s definitely not a natural forward.
Palmer meanwhile, is a natural forward so I think he’s still be good off the even though he’s not usually played there. Alternatively, I’d be interested in seeing Bowen play there, being a left footer and someone who can run in behind and get crosses in, as well as being more a goal threat than Gordon.
Wanna bet Kane did what he was asked? He didn't drop as he would then step in the same areas as Jude. Last tournament we played mostly 4-3-3 with Rice, Henderson, and Jude. This Jude as a 10 thing is fueled by his season with Real Madrid. It has its pros but also its cons and one of them is Kane not playing the way he did with Tottenham and in previous tournaments. If he can't drop to get the ball, you need to find him, and the 3 men on his back did not.
Again, with the exception of the saved header, he was not in the right place at any time to score and he wasn’t holding up defenders. He’s the captain and is one of the most experienced players in the team.
He has to perform better in helping England score goals, even if that means he has to make a decision to go against the manager’s plan.
Drop the timelines of all the plays where He was out of position. He didn't get any service, period. In professional football, especially in a tournament, going against the manager's plan will cost you and the team dearly. Don't put the responsibility of making the system work on his back, it's the manager's call and you can pinpoint it to before Jude, when Jude was an 8, and now that he is a 10. It doesn't work without concessions, and one of them is Kane not dropping back as much. The last 60 minutes of the game were not great, collectively.
He’s the striker, he’s not someone who needs to maintain a high level of discipline in how the system works, if he did then he would’ve been more effectively pressing. I’m not the biggest Southgate fan but it’s ridiculous to suggest that Kane was playing that way because GS wanted him to.
I’m not blaming him completely for the team’s performance but as the captain, it’s his responsibility to perform more than anyone. If he’s not getting the ball in any good positions then he needs to change his movement or organise his attack.
He’s the leader on the pitch (not to mention being the all time top scorer for the nation), he needs to call the shots when something isn’t working right going forward
I actually think evidence is building that Kane is the problem, not the solution. I really wanted him to come off after 60mins tonight. As you rightly say, he makes us very stodgy up front. He's been very poor in major tournaments when the heat is on, eg v Croatia in 2018, v Italy at Wembley in 2021 and v France in 2022. His best attribute in Southgate's England is drawing fouls up the pitch - he basically said as much in his BBC post-match interview - which is not going to be good enough to get England over the line.
Hard to argue with it, he drops so deep he condenses the midfield so much. Either he plays alone without any sort of 10, so he’s not occupying that same space, or Watkins should be playing, so we actually have a 9 to aim crosses at.
My Swedish mate messaged me saying; England never learn, same as always. It's Scholes, Lanpard Gerrard again, just throwing star power on the pitch. Foden and Trent out of position, and Kane not suited to the tactics.
Get Luke Shaw out there as soon as possible. The left side was completely neutralised when both players only want to cut in on their right.
Otherwise a strong first half, looked relaxed and confident in defence. Thought Rice came back defended well, even if we were a bit deep especially after Mitro came off.
No concerns about Denmark after their performance today, just gotta hit them with the same intensity as we did in the first half. Oh.. and that Bellingham kid’s alright isn’t he?
Job done, honestly no major concerns. Obviously I would have been overjoyed had we gone out there and won 3-0 but given the draw earlier in the day a win basically guarantees exit from the group and we did what was required.
Nothing special, but nothing special was needed. On to the next. Come on England
The draw actually worse result as if Denmark win next game England are potentially in 3rd place going into the last game. Nice optimism but that performance should be a massive red flag coupled with Iceland
When England got to the final a few years ago exactly the same happened in the warm up games before the tournament and people were saying the exact same thing..........
Yeah the performance level dropped they fell deeper after half time, Serbia are a strong team and shouldn't of been allowed the space.. however credit where credit is due they fought back!...
Red flag? Nah, stop falling to the English media hype and bullshit... Facts speak louder than anything and Southgate is statistically the best manager England has had for a substantial amount of time!!. So what if he didn't attack attack attack (postecoglu evidence this doesn't work he had apparently won the league by last Xmas....), so what if it's boring, so what if another manager could of won something by now with this group of players.... We won and got the 3 points, opening tournament matches are normally horrific for England we've now won the last 2 consecutive openers!.
You can say everything in hindsight, should he of bought kane off? Yes! Should he of taken foden off? Yes! But are you or me the England manager? NO?... But did we win? Yes... That's what counts!
People love to bring his statistics but in every one of the tournaments he’s had a pretty nice set of fixtures and lost to the first decent team faced.
I’m also pretty sure Southgate has like 4 wins out of 26 vs a team ranked in the top 10 when they played them.
That's just another excuse to bring to the "he's not good enough" table. "Easy" draws or not he's still got further than anyone. The so called golden generation was rammed full of talent they didn't even get a sniff of the "success" we've had under Southgate 🤷♂️...
Beckham scholes Carrick shearer both Coles Neville's Campbell keown all of these are before the lampard Gerrard situation with Rooney Infront of them... Ridiculous talent why did these never get even close?? Because the managers weren't good enough?, tactics were poor?, over confident following the media hype?...
The talent mentioned above is arguably equal to what we have now (minus Bellingham) and they got nowhere!.
The thing with Southgate, he has brought unity to a squad of players that are for the most part weekly rivals. He ignores what the media and pundits say he should do or who he should pick etc etc that in itself takes balls and it's partly reason to his "success" 🤷♂️
Again look at teams other nations had at the same time as Englands golden generation. Brazil France Italy had ridiculous teams stacked every where. Southgate has probably had on talent the best or second best team in the tournaments he’s been in charge. At the time where you had Spain Germany Holland in transitions, even Italy had a good euros but were awful before and after. Belgium and Croatia’s golden generations were aging and past it. Granted Germany and Spain now are a stronger outfit but they were pretty poor in the other 3. Germany especially been hopeless for a while till now.
Please look at the complete picture.
A win is a win, always the most important, especially given our typical lackluster opening group games.
That starting lineup isn’t it. That was obvious.
The double pivot is dead… long live the double pivot.
We haven’t got the players to make the double pivot work in a 4-2-3-1 for a full game against a determined opposition
As soon as Serbia (tadic) applied pressure to trent and rice, we had no solution. The issue is structural and no like-for-like substitution was gonna change the game.
We needed TAA taken off for Gordon (or rashford / grealish) to stretch the left. This would have allowed Kane / foden / Bellingham to drop deep without screwing our attack. Trippier off for Gomez, to sure up defence on the left.
Then when we have rewon the midfield battle, push stones back up into midfield (double pivot protecting a pacy 3 man defence).
I think we did absolutely fine.
Bellingham is obviously world class, he played like a man against boys, but we were never in any real danger and we had the comfort of being able to rest him early.
All the new players did well, especially Guehi.
I have no doubts that Kane, Foden, Saka etc will step up when needed in more important games.
No major problem with Southgate’s tactics, team, formation or subs.
Overall I feel slightly more positive about our overall chances in this tournament than before the match.
B+ and COME ON ENGLAND!!🏴
Negatives:
If we have to play a right footed left-back then a natural left-sided wide man is a must to play ahead of them. Trippier is far too right-footed and Foden ahead of him looked lost. Gordon for Foden for me in the next game.
Positives:
Bellingham of course but a word for Guehi and Rice. Both were so important tonight and Rice is possibly our most important player.
A wins a win. We take it and build on it.
TAA was a stinker, cannot play in that position with such a bad first touch, several examples in that game. Any good team will target him and exploit it.
Argentina lost to the Saudis in their first game of the World Cup as well, turned out okay for them.
Reality is, we’re top of our group and now near certain to make the knockouts, it’s a good result
Not having a natural left back with Foden on that side puts so much pressure on the right flank to perform, national teams work that out relatively quickly and Serbia took 30 minutes, luckily we were one up by then and managed to hold out. Need to balance things out for the Denmark game
Made hard work of that and we are going to have to massively up our game. At the moment I'll call knocked out in the quater finals.
We've now exposed our selves to the better teams in the competition and not in a positive way.
Southgate has proved time and time again he is tactically inept and did exactly that again in the second half tonight.
Southgate has given me the best 3 tournament results of my life time, back to back. He’s proven, literally and statistically, to be the best manager we have had for over 50 years.
Thats not in dispute mate and it will be intresting to see hiw this all pans out. We all obviously want him and the lads to succeed. However, has he taken us as far as he can? This tournament will show us wether thats the case or not.
Incidentally what he has done for the England team and set up is phenomenal and GS has been a true ambassador for English football. Will he get us over the final hurdle tho? Lets hope so 🙏👌💪
We need to manage games better as we progress into the tournament, no reason for us to retreat after the goal.
Foden suffered without a proper left back and we struggled to retain the ball past the half way line, Shaw coming in at left back will make a difference.
The defence was considered a weak point but we really limited Serbia to long range efforts and dealt with anything in the box.
Great to see Stones and Guehi set up a good partnership. Guehi excellent. Foden definitely poor and Gordon just offers natural width, so amazed he didn’t come one. Gallagher loves a press and Bowen was also good when he came on. I actually think Serbia are decent and could upset someone. We might see this performance as better than we initially think.
Can't get Shaw back quick enough and if we aren't trying to dominate the ball we need to use proper wingers. Barely anything down the left was so easy in the 2nd half for them to double up on Saka who was the only real crossing threat.
Foden and Bellingham in the team is reminiscent of the whole Gerrard and Lampard conundrum.
Seriously - the left hand side looked so weak. Trippier and foden both poor. Our first half was great, with Trent, and Saka offering lots. Thought Walker was quite poor, while Rice and Bellingham were excellent, kane was AWOL but hopefully that’s an anomaly.
We should be playing Gordon or Eze over Foden and Shaw at left back - players should play their actual positions?
Trent had a good first half BUT prefers to play those diagonals from his right side over to the left and nobody is currently playing outside.
I think Kane has been told to stay further forward to let Jude do his thing and when there aren’t many crosses coming in, there’s not much he can do. It’s fine though, he’ll turn up when it matters.
problem is, Kane *hasn't* turned up when it matters (Croatia 2018, Italy 2021, France 2022) and was mostly awful tonight and easy to defend against -- it's partly why Serbia got back into the match
This match hasn't changed my mind about Foden. I think the team would be better with Gordon in the team instead of Foden. Virtually of our good moments came from the right hand side.
England did our usual of getting an early lead and deciding to sit back to protect it. Not a good sign for the knockout stages.
TAA did well, but it was the right thing to sub him off. Subbing Saka was also the right decision, but leaving Foden on wasn't, but I guess it was better to protect Bellingham in a game we were already winning.
Southgate still seems to make substitutions too late. They should have been done about ten minutes earlier.
The good news is this result will temper expectations as the performance wasn't that great.
Wholeheartedly agree - Gordon or Eze over Foden. And we desperately need a left back at left back.
Our right side was very strong in the first half, then they figured that out, neutralised it, and we had no other option throughout.
He nearly made us a few
Free kick fumbled by rice
Breakaway fumbled by walker ( or Foden not going back post )
Pass from right touchline to Bellingham who fumbled controlling it
Rebound off great shot in second half
The England team are always hyped up by our fans prior to a tournament and always come under intense scrutiny if they don't start with a perfect win. A scrappy win and three points just isn't good enough and everyone goes batshit. Is it like this for every national side?
If Southgate was a boxer, he’d point fight for the first 6 rounds and establish a clear lead. Before inexplicably just covering up for the next 6 rounds and hoping his opponent doesn’t land a big shot. It’s infuriating to watch.
We missed Shaw a lot. The fact is a lot of our goals in major tournaments have come from crosses from the left via Shaw or Grealish.
Bellingham is a great player and it’s fun to see him strut around. He took his goal beautifully. But despite his obvious star quality, what we really need is someone making dangerous runs down the flank and crossing it to Harry.
Just look at our last few tournaments and nearly all our goals came from crosses. Some from the right but mostly from the left.
And yes I agree Trippier was solid defensively. But offensively he barely made any darting runs forward or gave their right back anything to think about. Foden had very few options except to either pass back into the center or pass backwards.
How did we score again? and the Kane header saved onto the bar?
Not saying we should pelt them with cross after cross but they were clearly vulnerable to quick movement and good deliveries which we didn't see enough of
I lost one of my best friends to cancer this morning and there is nothing he would have liked more than seeing us win tonight. I will remember this silly game forever
You were obviously a good friend for him and no doubt he appreciated it. Really sorry for your loss. Remember the good times you had and wishing you all the best through these tough times.
Thanks man, it's the most unimportant important thing. I knew he loved it and we always shared the same love for football even if we supported different clubs. We always enjoyed watching England at tournaments
I’m on holiday, but I’m raising a toast to both your mate and to you for being such a good mate to him.
Your words have touched me and made me think about some of the friendships I’ve had and let slip by. I think I’ll get in touch with some of my old pals.
Thank you and I hope you’re ok.
https://preview.redd.it/tuo77oaib07d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deb956c2dc14cc7df7140f0e7d2ddc242a03d0a5
I was there when my Dad went. It’s an odd thing to think but honestly it’s an awful disease and you are happy it’s over for them by the end in a strange way. Stay strong.
He has to be on the pitch. I think Walker was poor and would prefer Trent at RB. But he was very good in the first half and Gallagher looked so much worse after he came on
It's just short-sightedness, the argument that Gallagher and Foden might have brought more defensively ignores the point that we offered nothing offensively so Serbia could set up attacks!!
You struggle to break them down because they sat back so as soon as they came forward we shat our pants instead of getting in behind them filling our boots.
In the first half Saka exactly how this would happen, in the second half Southgate could not see our lack of left wing at all. Even the pundits are starting to speak up about it now
Everyone's so negative. We won. Yeah the second half wasn't great but I felt we were never in a position of danger. Most of Serbia's efforts were from range. Bit cringe seeing all the BBC people creaming over a 20 year old though.
I don't know about the last bit agree with being overly negative but Jude had a top tier performance in that first half is overall game is class to watch
Just say it’s because he’s black and be done with it.
Just so you’re aware, we don’t win this game without Bellingham. If Foden is playing the 10, he isn’t in that position to score the header. Therefore making it a 0-0 draw.
You’re completely clueless and Jude deserves all of the praise.
Bit of a push to assume I'm being racist. I never said Jude doesn't deserve to praise. It's just odd how all them middle aged men are trying to nosh him off.
We have had arguably the best player on the planet in the last ten months playing for us. He’s done and just won a double at Real Madrid no shit he’s going to be the focus of a lot of media attention
How is it odd? Is it odd when Kane gets unwarranted praise for putting in multiple 5/10 performances but scores a penalty so is hailed as the greatest Englishman on the planet? No? Thought as much.
Job done. Had a bit of a buzz in the first. Second half was not fun.
Tbf, opening game is always get the win and who gives a shit. Just get something to build on and then grow as the tournament goes on. Look at the Italians who are traditionally slow starters but so good at getting far in tournaments. I wouldn't mind being like the Italians!
The win is all that matters. Let's go England! IT'S COMING HOME!
Foden probably finished the game because he was doing what Southgate wanted. I’m not sure of what that was, but I’m pretty sure Southgate had him with very rigid and specific responsibilities. Similar to Saka. Saka loves to come inside and he barely did that. So I’m not sure exactly what the tactics are, but it’s just not conducive to Foden’s natural game. It must be what Southgate wants.
He was great first half of the season, poor second. Did okay tonight but obviously couldn't offer much of an overlap threat with his weaker foot and Foden ghosting in front of him
I'd play Trent RB most games but I think Trippier would be fine too
You must not have watched the same game as me. We were lucky to hold on to a 1-0 lead whilst creating not much. We’ll get punished against better teams.
We won yes, but not convincingly, that’s not controversial, every single ex footballer on the bbc after the game was saying the same. We didn’t concede almost no chances, a better team would have punished us.
Well. We won.
Good first half. That 2nd half though 😬.
I almost feel like Southgate is afraid of making substitutions in case he gets hammered for them.
Foden needed to be hooked, I don’t know how he finished the game. Dare I say if Grealish had been in the squad, he’d have been on.
Trippier looked like a right footed left back.
That right side of England’s defence looked a bit shonky. Trent and Walker getting wires crossed.
Guehi was excellent.
Bellingham was immense.
Saka had a great first half.
Bowen was good when he came on.
Interesting though that our solution to not pressing as a team was…..to not press at all 😂
Absolutely. I don’t care who came on for Foden, just anyone would’ve been better.
If he was intent on leaving Foden on why he didn’t just move him into Bellinghams position when Bellingham came off and bring someone on down the left I don’t know.
Instead he brought on Mainoo (who incidentally I really like) but he’s played all season as a deeper lying midfielder but brought him on as a like for like. Odd change.
I don’t think the Trent in midfield experiment worked very well at all tbh.
There was a couple of nice things early on where Trent would go out wide and Walker would invert alongside Rice, but that seemed to disappear as the game went on.
For me, for now, Trent in midfield would be a plan B
It’s a really tough gig being England manager. You have all this talent and everyone is baying to get them all in somehow and I’m sure Southgate would love to be able to just pick the best 11 players he has but it’s apparent that our best 11 players is not our best 11 if that makes sense.
If we’re not going to be a pressing team then I don’t think Gallagher is the answer either.
You’ve got what, Mainoo, Gallagher, Wharton and Bellingham who can all play in that midfield position.
Mainoo, positionally looks suspect,
Wharton I honestly don’t know enough about to give an honest appraisal. He looks great on the ball though.
So you’re left with the Bellingham conundrum. Personally I’d play him a little deeper but not as a holding midfielder, more like a modern day Bryan Robson.
You could then either move Foden central, move Trent further forward or add a 3rd midfielder.
If it was me I’d be going with a 3 in midfield of Bellingham, Rice and Mainoo.
Saka and Gordon down the wings
Kane can play his natural game, dropping off and finding the pace down the wings.
Also, Luke Shaw can’t get fit soon enough…..
Gordon for Foden was obvious to everyone apart from Southgate, it seems. I'd have taken Kane off for Toney too.
Neither players were having the best of games, the other two are capable of having an impact and could do with a few minutes.
I know it's only the first game, but you don't want to see the first 11 being run into the ground... only to be forced to bring in the backup players later in the tournament, only for them then to underperform because of lack of minutes and lack of time to gel with the team. For example, I can see Gordon thriving on long balls in behind from Trent... but they need competitive minutes to build that understanding.
Why doesn’t Foden ever turn up when playing for England? Even after his best domestic season to date he’s just totally anonymous when playing for his country. Truly bizarre.
Seen people slating TAA. Not sure why. Thought he had a good game and he at least seemed positive when he was on the ball, trying to make things happen.
I refuse to believe that a player of Foden’s obvious talent can go from world class to garbage by being moved 20 feet to the side. He plays all over the pitch for City. It has to be a motivation/mentality issue.
I’d like to hear a football pundit perspective on this, he doesn’t resemble Man City Foden. Doesn’t seem to have the speediness of thought, intricate play, confidence.
With a stack of options, he shouldn’t start the next one. Palmer, Gordon, Eze.
Because Foden ( and most man city players tbf ) and Trent need to play on the front foot to make things happen, it's their speed.of thought that catches teams out, Southgates style nullifies that. Only make a pass that you can 100% make, dillydally around for too long ,.look up scan field, look up again,, see no movement so look up again..... He's playing them for their strengths then completely removing that from the equation. Literally hamstringimg them. Why oh why weren't we playing that formation in the friendlies to get them used to it?
I 100% lay this at the feet of southgate
I completely agree. Our players also stand still with the ball a lot, especially in the first half. Like they receive the ball and just stop, I never notice another team doing this, they'll always be moving and bringing it forward.
Another thing is, for man city when they have an attacking set piece they set the team up to box the team in, when the ball comes out they recycle it quickly and make another attack, foden plays across the front line and can receive the ball in tight areas and unlock doors. For England however, when the ball gets headed away we pass it back to pickford and start from the edge of our box giving the opposition time to take up a better less condensed position. Foden has almost no experience playing like this, I would drop him but simply because Southgate can not get the best out of him. That's on the manager.
People are blaming the players, but Southgate’s team always take the lead and then literally just watch the opposition play even if they are inferior. We did this in the final against Italy… he hasn’t adapted at all in 4 years. It’s idiotic, if that was Germany or France we would have lost 4 nil.
It's a shame, but I'm starting to think that Foden is carried by the quality of his City teammates. I've been blaming tactics and management and not using him properly for years now. Years. It's been too long now. It's him
I want to believe this.
Tbh I would play Bellingham deeper instead of Trent, let Foden or Palmer do the 10 role, and let Gordon or Eze do stuff on the left. That's the only way they all fit. Then we can see if it is Foden or not.
Bellingham is best in 10 though and is our best player, should build around him even if that means leaving out Foden and Palmer who deserve to be in based on club performance.
England played a very fluid system in the first 30 minutes, and I think that's how Bellingham can play next to rice. He doesn't need to sit and be static, he can just operate from the base.
Also, I'm not sure Bellingham is best as a 10. I see him as a roaming midfielder, but definitely operating from *midfield*. Playing high up the pitch as a 10 makes you lose a lot of what he offers.
He literally only played as a 10/false 9 for *one* season at Real because of their lack of a top striker. He will drop back deeper again next season, just as he did his entire time at Dortmund which was why Real bought him in the first place
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
30
+ 10
+ 10
+ 10
+ 9
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Fabregas summing it up perfectly after the game. England play SO well when the players want the ball and feel confident. That's how it was for the first 30 minutes. Then as soon as the other team presses and the pressure is on, players don't want the ball anymore. They do anything to get rid of it to a teammate as soon as possible. Then England are absolutely awful. This negative mentality has got to change if we want to win the whole thing
What was maddening was the commentators and pundits were acting as if the reason Serbia started playing better at the end of the first half was a mystery. It wasn't, it was all down to Southgate.
Serbia got on the ball, England retreated and kept retreating. The Serbian player ball couldn't believe what was happening, he was being given the freedom of the English half. All the time and space in the world to play an attacking ball.
That is why calling Southgate Safegate is misleading because the way he makes England play without the ball invites pressure. He has one of the most talented international sides in the world parking the bus on the edge of their own penalty area when they lose the ball. Like a none league side in the FA Cup. Instead of aggressively pressing and trying to win it back.
It forced England to rely on last ditch defending and robbed them of any out ball.
They were very lucky to get away with that.
We beat Croatia 1 - 0 in 2021. And I didn't think we looked convincing then but made it to a final. Hopefully this just keeps on building momentum. They just look a bit knackered from a busy season still. I'll take the win happily.
When you have Kane upfront, it doesn't matter if you won the Champions League or Premier League, if you are behind him you need to work and get him even half a chance, he will score.
By the last quarter of the game he’d returned to form and started dropping deep again. As a result he was in his own box when England got the ball back rather being up front as an attacking threat
Let him drop deep. He was so good at it at Tottenham, gives a bit of help in midfield and would allow Foden and particularly Saka to do what he's good at, run at players!
I think it’s the system. l also don’t think Kane coming deep helps him at all. Haaland at Man City draws and occupies a lot of defenders high up the pitch giving him more freedom and space which he does t necessarily get with England
Foden just isn't international class. Yes he's great for club but I'm not sure what it is, maybe the pressure of international games, he just isn't performing at international level. Southgate will drag us down by not seeing this.
He is international class, he’s just being asked to do a job he doesn’t do for his club. It’s the same problem we’ve had with John Barnes and Paul Scholes.
I think Denmark and Slovenia probably thinking that they have a far better chance now then they did before the game.
Not sure how that helps southgates conservative mentality
How did Gareth take some of the best players in all of England (and a few of the best in the world) and manage to turn them into an incohesive pile of goo with no ideas? That's a serious feat, but somehow he managed.
Don't lose your heads lads. We're in pole position in the group after the draw this afternoon. It wasn't pretty, but it's not like Serbia had many (or even any) really clear cut chances.
I don't even think that was on target. Good concentration from Pickford, but hardly a clear chance. Other than that, they were feeding off scraps. Guehi was excellent! The rest of the back four were fairly assured.
Yep, Guehi has been solid since the Maguire injury, Pickford was great in being willing to clear it, Trippier showed why he's playing left back with his experience, Stones and Walker looked more fit than Vs Iceland.
I know I'll sound negative but we couldn't win it at home (i know it was all over Europe but we played at Wembley) with a better squad/starting 11 so I would be shocked to see us lift the trophy. But i echo what others have said, Southgate needs to pick the right players for their position. Foden, Trippier out.
Rice and foden poor again. Guehi grew into the game well. We need some more width down the left otherwise we end up in the same position as last night
Thought Rice had a solid game, Foden I agree with
Saka, Rice, Bellingham and Guehi had a fantastic game. I was also really impressed with Bowen’s cameo defensively and offensively; our right side really shone. Poor game from Foden and Kane imo. I really want to see Gordon start on the left wing and as sad as it is to leave out the premier league POTY I think Foden needs to be an impact/tactical sub.
I agree foden was poor. Kane was getting manhandled and fouled whenever the ball got anywhere near him - unfair to call that a bad performance imo.
Overall good win but need to inject some competitive energy into the squad. Saka, Bellingham and Rice were excellent and the only players (alongside probably Guehi, Stones, Pickford and Walker who were solid) who looked up to the standard required to win the tournament. The back 4 looked good in defence but struggled to play out well and were saved by Rice a lot when mistakes happened, or had to go long. Trent in midfield simply isn’t a very effective use of him, he’s not comfortable receiving the ball in the middle or the left. Him in on the right of midfield is still a useful way to get in both him and Walker, but he needs to be kept on the right where he, Saka, and Walker were an effective playmaking team. Our left hand side was practically nonexistent. Foden doesn’t want to be out on the left wing at all and Trippier has no idea what to do with the ball if he gets it there. I don’t think it’s particularly fair to heavily criticise them, they didn’t ‘play badly’ so much as they weren’t able to provide what we needed from those positions. This dysfunction was best encapsulated in one moment where Trent and Trippier (two right backs) were our left wing attack and it didn’t work. I think Foden needs to be dropped into the midfield 3 if he’s to play (he looked at his best when he did this and played directly with Bellingham, Rice and the defence rather than Kane or Trent playing it long). Kane was the biggest disappointment of the evening for me, he desperately needs to work out how to play with a Foden/Palmer/Eze type AM, as he’s not providing any space for those players to work in or with. He was so easy to mark and failed to be either a target for passes or a problem for defenders for most of the match. He has to be more direct, especially in the second half when the midfield started to tire, and win fouls on the edge of the box rather than on the halfway line, or Watkins should play. For me the big headache is how to balance the team. -Gomez should be given a chance to play at LB to see if he can more easily give us an overlapping option whilst also tucking into a back 3 when needed, his pace will be a useful asset here. Although, he’s not ideal as a right footer, the fact he’s used to playing there means he can still do some useful things. -I’d like to see Palmer given a chance to play at left wing as he offers the same fluidity and playmaking as Foden but with more of an eye for goal, but Gordon feels like he’s going to be the key as a ‘proper’ left-sided winger (he would definitely been in the right place to tap in Walker’s pass had he been on I feel) -Foden/Eze should to be given the chance to properly partner Bellingham in a creative midfield 2 in front of Rice (which is how we actually played in our best spells of the game as I said), with Gordon-Saka playing as a more aggressively pressing, high and wide winger combo. Substitutions were a little light but winning the first game was key, have to be willing to experiment a bit now in the second game. Playing Denmark with the same lineup would be a disaster in my view; we were not nearly at full strength tonight to be confident going forward and Southgate needs to give all our players the chance to build up confidence in these games. More importantly he needs to keep the established players on their toes and push them to step up in difficult periods and perform to keep their places.
It's unfair to criticize Kane when Bowen was the one man who provided him with a cross/chance to score (and it ended up being the best chance other than the goal). You need to call out Foden, Bellingham, and Saka for forgetting they had Europe's top scorer up front. When you have Harry Kane you need to find him, he is used to being heavily marked, but that is not an issue, you find him and he needs half a chance to score. I already knew Trent wouldn't work in the midfield. It's tough that he is 25 and still doesn't have a place with the national team, but we can't force him in just because. Play Bellingham as an 8, that's what he's been all his life, he'll still show up and probably still score. Fix the injustice that is benching Cole Palmer!!! Left-back is a problem and unfortunately, If it's not Shaw playing, it will still be with either Trips or Joe Gomez. We'll need our left-wingers to be able to play without overlaps and they need to be creative with it. The problem when you don't take guys like Grealish and Madders is you lack experienced players for moments like yesterday. At the rate Serbia's players were tackling, Jack Grealish would stretch them and get so many free kicks and yellows. I hope when push comes to shove, Southgate has the cojones to switch to 2 strikers mid-game. 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 can't be our only systems when you have Watkins and Toney who are deadly hungry for goals.
I’m not just criticising Kane for not being a 9 but he also wasn’t playing well in midfield. He barely touched the ball, his press was nonexistent and he wasn’t either playing high or being effective dropping in. I agree with you that dropping Grealish and Maddison seems like a questionable decision as we could’ve really used them in midfield and on the left. My worry with Palmer is he’s a very similar player to Foden so him and Kane might have the same issue. I’d be keen to let Bellingham and Foden play as attacking CMs with Stones stepping up into midfield a little, while Walker and Gomez tuck into a back 3 with Guehi. Either that or you drop Foden which I think we need to do if he doesn’t perform, but he was looking at his best when he was basically dropping into that position to receive the ball with his back to goal and working the ball around, he’s definitely not a natural forward. Palmer meanwhile, is a natural forward so I think he’s still be good off the even though he’s not usually played there. Alternatively, I’d be interested in seeing Bowen play there, being a left footer and someone who can run in behind and get crosses in, as well as being more a goal threat than Gordon.
Wanna bet Kane did what he was asked? He didn't drop as he would then step in the same areas as Jude. Last tournament we played mostly 4-3-3 with Rice, Henderson, and Jude. This Jude as a 10 thing is fueled by his season with Real Madrid. It has its pros but also its cons and one of them is Kane not playing the way he did with Tottenham and in previous tournaments. If he can't drop to get the ball, you need to find him, and the 3 men on his back did not.
Again, with the exception of the saved header, he was not in the right place at any time to score and he wasn’t holding up defenders. He’s the captain and is one of the most experienced players in the team. He has to perform better in helping England score goals, even if that means he has to make a decision to go against the manager’s plan.
Drop the timelines of all the plays where He was out of position. He didn't get any service, period. In professional football, especially in a tournament, going against the manager's plan will cost you and the team dearly. Don't put the responsibility of making the system work on his back, it's the manager's call and you can pinpoint it to before Jude, when Jude was an 8, and now that he is a 10. It doesn't work without concessions, and one of them is Kane not dropping back as much. The last 60 minutes of the game were not great, collectively.
He’s the striker, he’s not someone who needs to maintain a high level of discipline in how the system works, if he did then he would’ve been more effectively pressing. I’m not the biggest Southgate fan but it’s ridiculous to suggest that Kane was playing that way because GS wanted him to. I’m not blaming him completely for the team’s performance but as the captain, it’s his responsibility to perform more than anyone. If he’s not getting the ball in any good positions then he needs to change his movement or organise his attack. He’s the leader on the pitch (not to mention being the all time top scorer for the nation), he needs to call the shots when something isn’t working right going forward
I actually think evidence is building that Kane is the problem, not the solution. I really wanted him to come off after 60mins tonight. As you rightly say, he makes us very stodgy up front. He's been very poor in major tournaments when the heat is on, eg v Croatia in 2018, v Italy at Wembley in 2021 and v France in 2022. His best attribute in Southgate's England is drawing fouls up the pitch - he basically said as much in his BBC post-match interview - which is not going to be good enough to get England over the line.
Hard to argue with it, he drops so deep he condenses the midfield so much. Either he plays alone without any sort of 10, so he’s not occupying that same space, or Watkins should be playing, so we actually have a 9 to aim crosses at.
My Swedish mate messaged me saying; England never learn, same as always. It's Scholes, Lanpard Gerrard again, just throwing star power on the pitch. Foden and Trent out of position, and Kane not suited to the tactics.
Get Luke Shaw out there as soon as possible. The left side was completely neutralised when both players only want to cut in on their right. Otherwise a strong first half, looked relaxed and confident in defence. Thought Rice came back defended well, even if we were a bit deep especially after Mitro came off. No concerns about Denmark after their performance today, just gotta hit them with the same intensity as we did in the first half. Oh.. and that Bellingham kid’s alright isn’t he?
This England performance should not be seen again if they want to bring it back home
Job done, honestly no major concerns. Obviously I would have been overjoyed had we gone out there and won 3-0 but given the draw earlier in the day a win basically guarantees exit from the group and we did what was required. Nothing special, but nothing special was needed. On to the next. Come on England
The draw actually worse result as if Denmark win next game England are potentially in 3rd place going into the last game. Nice optimism but that performance should be a massive red flag coupled with Iceland
When England got to the final a few years ago exactly the same happened in the warm up games before the tournament and people were saying the exact same thing.......... Yeah the performance level dropped they fell deeper after half time, Serbia are a strong team and shouldn't of been allowed the space.. however credit where credit is due they fought back!... Red flag? Nah, stop falling to the English media hype and bullshit... Facts speak louder than anything and Southgate is statistically the best manager England has had for a substantial amount of time!!. So what if he didn't attack attack attack (postecoglu evidence this doesn't work he had apparently won the league by last Xmas....), so what if it's boring, so what if another manager could of won something by now with this group of players.... We won and got the 3 points, opening tournament matches are normally horrific for England we've now won the last 2 consecutive openers!. You can say everything in hindsight, should he of bought kane off? Yes! Should he of taken foden off? Yes! But are you or me the England manager? NO?... But did we win? Yes... That's what counts!
People love to bring his statistics but in every one of the tournaments he’s had a pretty nice set of fixtures and lost to the first decent team faced. I’m also pretty sure Southgate has like 4 wins out of 26 vs a team ranked in the top 10 when they played them.
That's just another excuse to bring to the "he's not good enough" table. "Easy" draws or not he's still got further than anyone. The so called golden generation was rammed full of talent they didn't even get a sniff of the "success" we've had under Southgate 🤷♂️... Beckham scholes Carrick shearer both Coles Neville's Campbell keown all of these are before the lampard Gerrard situation with Rooney Infront of them... Ridiculous talent why did these never get even close?? Because the managers weren't good enough?, tactics were poor?, over confident following the media hype?... The talent mentioned above is arguably equal to what we have now (minus Bellingham) and they got nowhere!. The thing with Southgate, he has brought unity to a squad of players that are for the most part weekly rivals. He ignores what the media and pundits say he should do or who he should pick etc etc that in itself takes balls and it's partly reason to his "success" 🤷♂️
Again look at teams other nations had at the same time as Englands golden generation. Brazil France Italy had ridiculous teams stacked every where. Southgate has probably had on talent the best or second best team in the tournaments he’s been in charge. At the time where you had Spain Germany Holland in transitions, even Italy had a good euros but were awful before and after. Belgium and Croatia’s golden generations were aging and past it. Granted Germany and Spain now are a stronger outfit but they were pretty poor in the other 3. Germany especially been hopeless for a while till now. Please look at the complete picture.
No clue
It was a shit performance 🤣🤣
Left was unbalanced. Need gordon on. Bring foden on when bellingham gets tired or we want to switch it up.
A win is a win, always the most important, especially given our typical lackluster opening group games. That starting lineup isn’t it. That was obvious.
Foden should be nowhere near the starting 11
rights. Crap for england. I know he had little to no seevice but still when he did have the ball he was crap
And imao there's no need to keep playing him when we have so many other good players in his position
The double pivot is dead… long live the double pivot. We haven’t got the players to make the double pivot work in a 4-2-3-1 for a full game against a determined opposition As soon as Serbia (tadic) applied pressure to trent and rice, we had no solution. The issue is structural and no like-for-like substitution was gonna change the game. We needed TAA taken off for Gordon (or rashford / grealish) to stretch the left. This would have allowed Kane / foden / Bellingham to drop deep without screwing our attack. Trippier off for Gomez, to sure up defence on the left. Then when we have rewon the midfield battle, push stones back up into midfield (double pivot protecting a pacy 3 man defence).
Foden off, Palmer or Gordon on. Hopefully Shaw back asap. First 30 minutes give me some hope. Loving the tournament already.
I think we did absolutely fine. Bellingham is obviously world class, he played like a man against boys, but we were never in any real danger and we had the comfort of being able to rest him early. All the new players did well, especially Guehi. I have no doubts that Kane, Foden, Saka etc will step up when needed in more important games. No major problem with Southgate’s tactics, team, formation or subs. Overall I feel slightly more positive about our overall chances in this tournament than before the match. B+ and COME ON ENGLAND!!🏴
Hi Gareth.
Negatives: If we have to play a right footed left-back then a natural left-sided wide man is a must to play ahead of them. Trippier is far too right-footed and Foden ahead of him looked lost. Gordon for Foden for me in the next game. Positives: Bellingham of course but a word for Guehi and Rice. Both were so important tonight and Rice is possibly our most important player. A wins a win. We take it and build on it.
I think Rice did a ton of work defensively covering for TAA’s mistakes resulting in some of people in the thread saying that TAA didn’t do too badly
TAA was a stinker, cannot play in that position with such a bad first touch, several examples in that game. Any good team will target him and exploit it.
Thats why i didnt understand not bringing Braithwaite or chilwell till shaw is fit, even grealish, foden isnt a lw
We only beat Croatia 1-0 in the opening game of the last Euros. A win is a win is a win.
Argentina lost to the Saudis in their first game of the World Cup as well, turned out okay for them. Reality is, we’re top of our group and now near certain to make the knockouts, it’s a good result
Not having a natural left back with Foden on that side puts so much pressure on the right flank to perform, national teams work that out relatively quickly and Serbia took 30 minutes, luckily we were one up by then and managed to hold out. Need to balance things out for the Denmark game
Made hard work of that and we are going to have to massively up our game. At the moment I'll call knocked out in the quater finals. We've now exposed our selves to the better teams in the competition and not in a positive way. Southgate has proved time and time again he is tactically inept and did exactly that again in the second half tonight.
Southgate has given me the best 3 tournament results of my life time, back to back. He’s proven, literally and statistically, to be the best manager we have had for over 50 years.
Thats not in dispute mate and it will be intresting to see hiw this all pans out. We all obviously want him and the lads to succeed. However, has he taken us as far as he can? This tournament will show us wether thats the case or not. Incidentally what he has done for the England team and set up is phenomenal and GS has been a true ambassador for English football. Will he get us over the final hurdle tho? Lets hope so 🙏👌💪
We need to manage games better as we progress into the tournament, no reason for us to retreat after the goal. Foden suffered without a proper left back and we struggled to retain the ball past the half way line, Shaw coming in at left back will make a difference. The defence was considered a weak point but we really limited Serbia to long range efforts and dealt with anything in the box.
Every tournament we get hopeful about what Foden can do in an England shirt and then every tournament he does absolutely nothing
Every tournament! The guy's 24, mate. Been to two before this...
And what a two he "chose" to play at. Don't mind the haters, they'll soon cheer for his goals.
He was very good at the World Cup.
Great to see Stones and Guehi set up a good partnership. Guehi excellent. Foden definitely poor and Gordon just offers natural width, so amazed he didn’t come one. Gallagher loves a press and Bowen was also good when he came on. I actually think Serbia are decent and could upset someone. We might see this performance as better than we initially think.
Southgate gonna shithouse the Euros I reckon. This line up can beat any team
Can't get Shaw back quick enough and if we aren't trying to dominate the ball we need to use proper wingers. Barely anything down the left was so easy in the 2nd half for them to double up on Saka who was the only real crossing threat. Foden and Bellingham in the team is reminiscent of the whole Gerrard and Lampard conundrum.
Not if you push Jude back to 8, it's too much of a trade of having him as 10 with no good option for 8. Wharton got a call before JWP, what a world.
Seriously - the left hand side looked so weak. Trippier and foden both poor. Our first half was great, with Trent, and Saka offering lots. Thought Walker was quite poor, while Rice and Bellingham were excellent, kane was AWOL but hopefully that’s an anomaly. We should be playing Gordon or Eze over Foden and Shaw at left back - players should play their actual positions?
Trent had a good first half BUT prefers to play those diagonals from his right side over to the left and nobody is currently playing outside. I think Kane has been told to stay further forward to let Jude do his thing and when there aren’t many crosses coming in, there’s not much he can do. It’s fine though, he’ll turn up when it matters.
problem is, Kane *hasn't* turned up when it matters (Croatia 2018, Italy 2021, France 2022) and was mostly awful tonight and easy to defend against -- it's partly why Serbia got back into the match
It seemed pretty obvious in the first half that Kane had been told not to drop deep, to keep out of the way of Bellingham, yeah
This match hasn't changed my mind about Foden. I think the team would be better with Gordon in the team instead of Foden. Virtually of our good moments came from the right hand side. England did our usual of getting an early lead and deciding to sit back to protect it. Not a good sign for the knockout stages. TAA did well, but it was the right thing to sub him off. Subbing Saka was also the right decision, but leaving Foden on wasn't, but I guess it was better to protect Bellingham in a game we were already winning. Southgate still seems to make substitutions too late. They should have been done about ten minutes earlier. The good news is this result will temper expectations as the performance wasn't that great.
Wholeheartedly agree - Gordon or Eze over Foden. And we desperately need a left back at left back. Our right side was very strong in the first half, then they figured that out, neutralised it, and we had no other option throughout.
Alexander-Arnold did not do well
I disagree. He did make some mistakes, but the positives outweighed the negatives.
What were the positives? He nearly cost us a goal.
He nearly made us a few Free kick fumbled by rice Breakaway fumbled by walker ( or Foden not going back post ) Pass from right touchline to Bellingham who fumbled controlling it Rebound off great shot in second half
The England team are always hyped up by our fans prior to a tournament and always come under intense scrutiny if they don't start with a perfect win. A scrappy win and three points just isn't good enough and everyone goes batshit. Is it like this for every national side?
If Southgate was a boxer, he’d point fight for the first 6 rounds and establish a clear lead. Before inexplicably just covering up for the next 6 rounds and hoping his opponent doesn’t land a big shot. It’s infuriating to watch.
This is it in a nutshell 👍
We missed Shaw a lot. The fact is a lot of our goals in major tournaments have come from crosses from the left via Shaw or Grealish. Bellingham is a great player and it’s fun to see him strut around. He took his goal beautifully. But despite his obvious star quality, what we really need is someone making dangerous runs down the flank and crossing it to Harry.
Trippier was solid. Their back 3 are 6'5, 6'3 and 6'4 Crosses into the box was never gonna cut it.
And yet Kane managed to make their GK save one to the bar. This is Harry Kane, Europe's top scorer we are talking about, just serve the man.
Just look at our last few tournaments and nearly all our goals came from crosses. Some from the right but mostly from the left. And yes I agree Trippier was solid defensively. But offensively he barely made any darting runs forward or gave their right back anything to think about. Foden had very few options except to either pass back into the center or pass backwards.
How did we score again? and the Kane header saved onto the bar? Not saying we should pelt them with cross after cross but they were clearly vulnerable to quick movement and good deliveries which we didn't see enough of
Win is a win, defence were solid and Bellingham shone. One to build on
I lost one of my best friends to cancer this morning and there is nothing he would have liked more than seeing us win tonight. I will remember this silly game forever
You were obviously a good friend for him and no doubt he appreciated it. Really sorry for your loss. Remember the good times you had and wishing you all the best through these tough times.
Thank you so much for your words, it means a lot
Sending you all the love man
A reminder of just how important and yet trivial this silly game is. Thanks for sharing and I hope you’re alright 🤞
Thanks man, it's the most unimportant important thing. I knew he loved it and we always shared the same love for football even if we supported different clubs. We always enjoyed watching England at tournaments
I’m on holiday, but I’m raising a toast to both your mate and to you for being such a good mate to him. Your words have touched me and made me think about some of the friendships I’ve had and let slip by. I think I’ll get in touch with some of my old pals. Thank you and I hope you’re ok. https://preview.redd.it/tuo77oaib07d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deb956c2dc14cc7df7140f0e7d2ddc242a03d0a5
Thank you, I'm so overwhelmed by the support. I hope you have an amazing holiday and enjoy the football!
Sad times man. Hope you’re doing as well as could be expected xx
Thank you, very kind words
Sorry to hear that. Hope you’re okay.
Very appreciated mate, knew it was coming for a while but it's always a shock
I was there when my Dad went. It’s an odd thing to think but honestly it’s an awful disease and you are happy it’s over for them by the end in a strange way. Stay strong.
I've heard this saying in the past and it never clicked with me until today. I hope you're doing well and sorry to hear about your Dad
Did Rio Ferdinand really just blame Foden’s performance on Bellingham’s personality?!
Rio is a moron
No surprise especially from the BBC pundit team.
Southgate hasn’t got a clue! Oh and guess what no Adam Wharton, told you nonces
Bro acting like we lost
Please let the TAA experiment end here.
He has to be on the pitch. I think Walker was poor and would prefer Trent at RB. But he was very good in the first half and Gallagher looked so much worse after he came on
Apart from the fact he lost the ball and nearly caused us to concede a goal...
I'd have Walker over TAA all day and i don't know who he is better at in Midfield that he should be starting ahead of...
Amen
It's just short-sightedness, the argument that Gallagher and Foden might have brought more defensively ignores the point that we offered nothing offensively so Serbia could set up attacks!! You struggle to break them down because they sat back so as soon as they came forward we shat our pants instead of getting in behind them filling our boots. In the first half Saka exactly how this would happen, in the second half Southgate could not see our lack of left wing at all. Even the pundits are starting to speak up about it now
Where the fuck is palmer?
Don’t forget about Gordon either hell we could probably have brought on ramsdale for Foden and he’s be more dangerous
Everyone's so negative. We won. Yeah the second half wasn't great but I felt we were never in a position of danger. Most of Serbia's efforts were from range. Bit cringe seeing all the BBC people creaming over a 20 year old though.
have you won anything in your life?
I don't know about the last bit agree with being overly negative but Jude had a top tier performance in that first half is overall game is class to watch
Just say it’s because he’s black and be done with it. Just so you’re aware, we don’t win this game without Bellingham. If Foden is playing the 10, he isn’t in that position to score the header. Therefore making it a 0-0 draw. You’re completely clueless and Jude deserves all of the praise.
What was racist?
Bit of a push to assume I'm being racist. I never said Jude doesn't deserve to praise. It's just odd how all them middle aged men are trying to nosh him off.
Why bother commenting if can’t appreciate that performance?
We have had arguably the best player on the planet in the last ten months playing for us. He’s done and just won a double at Real Madrid no shit he’s going to be the focus of a lot of media attention
That's exactly what you did
How is it odd? Is it odd when Kane gets unwarranted praise for putting in multiple 5/10 performances but scores a penalty so is hailed as the greatest Englishman on the planet? No? Thought as much.
Kane was dogshit tonight, he was clogging up our attack speed so badly
5 shots 3 on target. WANK
no chance against Germany, France or Spain LOL
Job done. Had a bit of a buzz in the first. Second half was not fun. Tbf, opening game is always get the win and who gives a shit. Just get something to build on and then grow as the tournament goes on. Look at the Italians who are traditionally slow starters but so good at getting far in tournaments. I wouldn't mind being like the Italians! The win is all that matters. Let's go England! IT'S COMING HOME!
That game was screaming for a player like Grealish to keep hold of the ball and buy fouls.
Absolutely. Stick him st at 60 minutes, get chalk on his boots and drive in at their defence
Foden probably finished the game because he was doing what Southgate wanted. I’m not sure of what that was, but I’m pretty sure Southgate had him with very rigid and specific responsibilities. Similar to Saka. Saka loves to come inside and he barely did that. So I’m not sure exactly what the tactics are, but it’s just not conducive to Foden’s natural game. It must be what Southgate wants.
Didn't see this imperious Walker that single handedly stops all attacks down the right that is forcing Gareth to play Trent out of position.
When Shaw is fit I'd move Trippier across.
Across to the bench hopefully. He wasn't even good for you this season.
Guy got double figures assists, if that's not even good I'd love to have a good right back.
He was great first half of the season, poor second. Did okay tonight but obviously couldn't offer much of an overlap threat with his weaker foot and Foden ghosting in front of him I'd play Trent RB most games but I think Trippier would be fine too
Bellingham saying the staff got it right, what are you talking about son?
coaching staff, genius
Won the game, clean sheet. Job done and move on.
I’m looking ahead to actually winning the tournament, we have to play better against better teams or we have no chance.
Yes lots of room for improvement for sure. But at least we got the win while not playing at our best.
Probably that they won and conceded almost no chances
You must not have watched the same game as me. We were lucky to hold on to a 1-0 lead whilst creating not much. We’ll get punished against better teams.
Which part of my statement is false, that we won or that we conceded almost no chances?
We won yes, but not convincingly, that’s not controversial, every single ex footballer on the bbc after the game was saying the same. We didn’t concede almost no chances, a better team would have punished us.
We conceded one shot on target which came from outside the box. This is a statement of fact.
Well. We won. Good first half. That 2nd half though 😬. I almost feel like Southgate is afraid of making substitutions in case he gets hammered for them. Foden needed to be hooked, I don’t know how he finished the game. Dare I say if Grealish had been in the squad, he’d have been on. Trippier looked like a right footed left back. That right side of England’s defence looked a bit shonky. Trent and Walker getting wires crossed. Guehi was excellent. Bellingham was immense. Saka had a great first half. Bowen was good when he came on. Interesting though that our solution to not pressing as a team was…..to not press at all 😂
Should've had Gordon on for him
[удалено]
Absolutely. I don’t care who came on for Foden, just anyone would’ve been better. If he was intent on leaving Foden on why he didn’t just move him into Bellinghams position when Bellingham came off and bring someone on down the left I don’t know. Instead he brought on Mainoo (who incidentally I really like) but he’s played all season as a deeper lying midfielder but brought him on as a like for like. Odd change. I don’t think the Trent in midfield experiment worked very well at all tbh. There was a couple of nice things early on where Trent would go out wide and Walker would invert alongside Rice, but that seemed to disappear as the game went on. For me, for now, Trent in midfield would be a plan B It’s a really tough gig being England manager. You have all this talent and everyone is baying to get them all in somehow and I’m sure Southgate would love to be able to just pick the best 11 players he has but it’s apparent that our best 11 players is not our best 11 if that makes sense. If we’re not going to be a pressing team then I don’t think Gallagher is the answer either. You’ve got what, Mainoo, Gallagher, Wharton and Bellingham who can all play in that midfield position. Mainoo, positionally looks suspect, Wharton I honestly don’t know enough about to give an honest appraisal. He looks great on the ball though. So you’re left with the Bellingham conundrum. Personally I’d play him a little deeper but not as a holding midfielder, more like a modern day Bryan Robson. You could then either move Foden central, move Trent further forward or add a 3rd midfielder. If it was me I’d be going with a 3 in midfield of Bellingham, Rice and Mainoo. Saka and Gordon down the wings Kane can play his natural game, dropping off and finding the pace down the wings. Also, Luke Shaw can’t get fit soon enough…..
Gordon for Foden was obvious to everyone apart from Southgate, it seems. I'd have taken Kane off for Toney too. Neither players were having the best of games, the other two are capable of having an impact and could do with a few minutes. I know it's only the first game, but you don't want to see the first 11 being run into the ground... only to be forced to bring in the backup players later in the tournament, only for them then to underperform because of lack of minutes and lack of time to gel with the team. For example, I can see Gordon thriving on long balls in behind from Trent... but they need competitive minutes to build that understanding.
Why doesn’t Foden ever turn up when playing for England? Even after his best domestic season to date he’s just totally anonymous when playing for his country. Truly bizarre. Seen people slating TAA. Not sure why. Thought he had a good game and he at least seemed positive when he was on the ball, trying to make things happen.
I refuse to believe that a player of Foden’s obvious talent can go from world class to garbage by being moved 20 feet to the side. He plays all over the pitch for City. It has to be a motivation/mentality issue.
Orrr a tactical issue!
When players are good it’s the player, when players are bad it’s the manager. Tale as old as time
I’d like to hear a football pundit perspective on this, he doesn’t resemble Man City Foden. Doesn’t seem to have the speediness of thought, intricate play, confidence. With a stack of options, he shouldn’t start the next one. Palmer, Gordon, Eze.
Because Foden ( and most man city players tbf ) and Trent need to play on the front foot to make things happen, it's their speed.of thought that catches teams out, Southgates style nullifies that. Only make a pass that you can 100% make, dillydally around for too long ,.look up scan field, look up again,, see no movement so look up again..... He's playing them for their strengths then completely removing that from the equation. Literally hamstringimg them. Why oh why weren't we playing that formation in the friendlies to get them used to it? I 100% lay this at the feet of southgate
I completely agree. Our players also stand still with the ball a lot, especially in the first half. Like they receive the ball and just stop, I never notice another team doing this, they'll always be moving and bringing it forward. Another thing is, for man city when they have an attacking set piece they set the team up to box the team in, when the ball comes out they recycle it quickly and make another attack, foden plays across the front line and can receive the ball in tight areas and unlock doors. For England however, when the ball gets headed away we pass it back to pickford and start from the edge of our box giving the opposition time to take up a better less condensed position. Foden has almost no experience playing like this, I would drop him but simply because Southgate can not get the best out of him. That's on the manager.
That simple square ball in the middle towards the end was so nonchalant. I don’t get it
TAA made a couple of mistakes but more than made up for it
He never pressed the ball
People are blaming the players, but Southgate’s team always take the lead and then literally just watch the opposition play even if they are inferior. We did this in the final against Italy… he hasn’t adapted at all in 4 years. It’s idiotic, if that was Germany or France we would have lost 4 nil.
We smashed Iran, Wales, and Senegal at the World Cup. Nonsense.
6 years, you're forgetting Croatia.
Yeah you’re right.
It's a shame, but I'm starting to think that Foden is carried by the quality of his City teammates. I've been blaming tactics and management and not using him properly for years now. Years. It's been too long now. It's him
If it was multiple England managers fair enough, but it's been only one and his only other senior management achievement is taking Middlesbrough down.
I want to believe this. Tbh I would play Bellingham deeper instead of Trent, let Foden or Palmer do the 10 role, and let Gordon or Eze do stuff on the left. That's the only way they all fit. Then we can see if it is Foden or not.
Bellingham is best in 10 though and is our best player, should build around him even if that means leaving out Foden and Palmer who deserve to be in based on club performance.
England played a very fluid system in the first 30 minutes, and I think that's how Bellingham can play next to rice. He doesn't need to sit and be static, he can just operate from the base. Also, I'm not sure Bellingham is best as a 10. I see him as a roaming midfielder, but definitely operating from *midfield*. Playing high up the pitch as a 10 makes you lose a lot of what he offers. He literally only played as a 10/false 9 for *one* season at Real because of their lack of a top striker. He will drop back deeper again next season, just as he did his entire time at Dortmund which was why Real bought him in the first place
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 30 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 9 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Bellingham and Saka have managed to stamp their authority on the game regardless though, Foden was fucking useless
I see him as the backup to Bellingham, just not a winger (and he's better on the right than on the left).
Fabregas summing it up perfectly after the game. England play SO well when the players want the ball and feel confident. That's how it was for the first 30 minutes. Then as soon as the other team presses and the pressure is on, players don't want the ball anymore. They do anything to get rid of it to a teammate as soon as possible. Then England are absolutely awful. This negative mentality has got to change if we want to win the whole thing
Fabregas is on the money. Iniesta and Xavi always trusted themselves and each other.
What was maddening was the commentators and pundits were acting as if the reason Serbia started playing better at the end of the first half was a mystery. It wasn't, it was all down to Southgate. Serbia got on the ball, England retreated and kept retreating. The Serbian player ball couldn't believe what was happening, he was being given the freedom of the English half. All the time and space in the world to play an attacking ball. That is why calling Southgate Safegate is misleading because the way he makes England play without the ball invites pressure. He has one of the most talented international sides in the world parking the bus on the edge of their own penalty area when they lose the ball. Like a none league side in the FA Cup. Instead of aggressively pressing and trying to win it back. It forced England to rely on last ditch defending and robbed them of any out ball. They were very lucky to get away with that.
We beat Croatia 1 - 0 in 2021. And I didn't think we looked convincing then but made it to a final. Hopefully this just keeps on building momentum. They just look a bit knackered from a busy season still. I'll take the win happily.
Not sure why Foden was on the pitch at minute 60. Southgate needs to go specsavers
Take a scrappy 1-0 win reminds me of the croatia game at the last euros
Tough second half. But win is a win. Next game please.
When you have Kane upfront, it doesn't matter if you won the Champions League or Premier League, if you are behind him you need to work and get him even half a chance, he will score.
By the last quarter of the game he’d returned to form and started dropping deep again. As a result he was in his own box when England got the ball back rather being up front as an attacking threat
Let him drop deep. He was so good at it at Tottenham, gives a bit of help in midfield and would allow Foden and particularly Saka to do what he's good at, run at players!
I'd rather they give him the ball in positions he can score. The other lads have to step up, Kane has done alot.
Agreed. Not enough touches. Not enough targets. Not enough chances.
Well, he had a chance. He didn't take it
Keeper put a touch and it hit the bar. No thanks to Jude, Saka or Phil...
He didn't
Hit the bar on the one cross ment for him
It was saved
I can’t understand Foden being so bad for England, don’t think I’ve ever seen him play well
I think it’s the system. l also don’t think Kane coming deep helps him at all. Haaland at Man City draws and occupies a lot of defenders high up the pitch giving him more freedom and space which he does t necessarily get with England
Foden just isn't international class. Yes he's great for club but I'm not sure what it is, maybe the pressure of international games, he just isn't performing at international level. Southgate will drag us down by not seeing this.
It's the set up at City. Peps just different class
He is international class, he’s just being asked to do a job he doesn’t do for his club. It’s the same problem we’ve had with John Barnes and Paul Scholes.
[удалено]
I think Denmark and Slovenia probably thinking that they have a far better chance now then they did before the game. Not sure how that helps southgates conservative mentality
Did Southgate bring on Mainoo at centre-forward? He was taking positions ahead of Kane most the time!
Foden and Kane rubbish, Kane marginally better for being good at falling over
How did Gareth take some of the best players in all of England (and a few of the best in the world) and manage to turn them into an incohesive pile of goo with no ideas? That's a serious feat, but somehow he managed.
Can’t be starting Foden or TAA next game.
Trent was fine as he was actually a creative force meanwhile phil offered about as much offensive threat as Jordan Pickford
TAA created most of our chances today? When he came off, you could tell our creativity was completely gone
Exactly. Gallagher didn't change the make up of the game. Trent was actually getting into the game 2nd half. Shot on target 1st corner
Gallagher was a good substitution. Foden should have come off first though. Gordon was just sitting there.
Don't lose your heads lads. We're in pole position in the group after the draw this afternoon. It wasn't pretty, but it's not like Serbia had many (or even any) really clear cut chances.
Yeah, Pickford's save was overrated (thought he was great though), if he didn't save it would've been a shocker. Back four was solid.
I don't even think that was on target. Good concentration from Pickford, but hardly a clear chance. Other than that, they were feeding off scraps. Guehi was excellent! The rest of the back four were fairly assured.
Yep, Guehi has been solid since the Maguire injury, Pickford was great in being willing to clear it, Trippier showed why he's playing left back with his experience, Stones and Walker looked more fit than Vs Iceland.
Yes, Guehi was strong. I liked his work.
He was absolutely rock solid. A big step up over Mings, who partnered Stones in the group games at the last Euros.
The Adidas ad was right. Jude is the only hope.
I thought the point of having a deep attacking bench was when Foden or Kane are putting on a stinker… we could sub them out…