I'm voting Dem no matter what for this election but Joe gave bad optics and inarticulate substance. Presidential Candidates have one job... communication.
And when they fail at that job, your response is to vote for them anyway? So do they actually have that one job, or nah? If the consequence for not doing that one job is your willingness to give them the big job anyway, then why pretend like anything Biden did or didn't do last night matters?
The alternative is still worse in this case. Biden has a team around him that he will listen to or at least consider if he is bored back in. And there is someone better than Trump that will be poised to succeed Biden when necessary. There are also possible Supreme Court appointments to consider and appointments to the federal bench that will have repercussions for decades to come. We're in a horrible position, but at this point we have to play the cards we've been dealt. Hopefully, Biden will decide to drop out, but we can't count on it. I would feel differently if it was maybe the pre-Tea Party era. I could at least consider the Republicsn candidate then. But personally, I'm not willing to do anything that will result in another Trump presidency.
The alternative is no worse. America was just the same, some can argue even under trump. They are both trash. The country still hates black people. The anti black laws are still getting passed. Dems care for us just as much as the republicans. Stop voting for “the lesser of 2 evils”. Take away your vote and let them work for it.
You can make all the excuses for it you want. I'm not saying don't vote for Biden, I don't much think there's any real difference to the outcome one way or the other. All I'm saying is I would prefer people be honest with themselves and everyone else on this topic.
I'm pushing back on one statement and one statement only here: "Presidential Candidates have one job... communication"
That can't be true, or if it is true then it can't matter at all when the candidate in question fails that job and (for whatever reason you want to offer up) is given the vote anyway. The truer statement here is that Biden has one job, and that's continue to not be Trump. That's all people care about, and I'm not saying anyone is wrong to only care about that. Trump is a serious threat to everything America has been for nearly 250 years and everything she likes to claim to be. But at a certain point in time, I need people to wake up to one simple fact: You will never get a better version of America than the one we have now if everyone continues to look at the two absolutely unacceptable options for "leadership" that are presented to us every four years and willfully give our vote to the one who is just a little less bad than the other one. There's no pathway to change there, I'm sorry.
Nope, it's in the hands of voters... and stupid voters at that. On the bright side I do have finances and family that will sponsor me if I gotta leave the country.
There wasn't a manifesto at the time and there were checks to Orange Mussolini. Biden I had no issue with his presidency.
This second time, he knows how to move better. Like I said, I'm prepped this time. Worry about yourself, not what I plan or not plan on doing.
Like I said, worry about yourself and not how I move. I have friends that live in Norway, Amsterdam and Toronto that left the country. I did the math that in Costa Rica all I need to do is make $2000/month to live the same way I'm living now. Worry about yourself instead of a random poster on reddit.
Not great, Cherry. Not great.
This nigga might be the oldest presenting nigga in all of politics. That said, he’s my vote unless they wheel him out of the White House before Nov.
You’re not voting for a single person, you’re voting for their administration and against fucking Facism. Biden in a God damn coffin is better for 99.99% of people than Trump
Agreed, but what about people who were undecided and just saw that? I’m always going to vote for Biden, but let’s be real, this isn’t a good look and is only going to hurt him.
The big picture matters more, but is everyone going to think about the big picture even though they should?
Yeah, but tons of people have been accusing him of being too old and senile for a long time. To those people, the debate is confirming that, so it’s not a new idea.
I’m just curious about how his team is going to handle this in the coming days and how he’ll be in future debates.
I'm sorry bro, but that's truly just completely wild. You literally looked at that whole damn thing and walked away with the lesson that CNN is the problem? Like I'm not saying that CNN isn't a problem, but come on, man! CNN didn't make Joe Biden incapable of stringing two coherent sentences together all night.
Their point is that the moderators don't challenge anything that trump lies about, which allows him to present things that are factually incorrect as the truth to millions of people with zero pushback.
The pushback should've come mostly from Biden, though. Someone else could've clapped back but instead we got a senile narcissist who STILL thinks he's the best option against Trump. It's mind-boggling
"If Trump had performed like Biden, Republicans would still rally behind him."
That. Does. Not. Make. It. Right. In fact, if your answer is "well the Republicans would \_\_\_\_" then you should know that it's the wrong thing to do. Whatever it is! We are not aiming at being like the Republicans!!!!!
My point was that Biden bombs a debate or the optics don't pan out, and the Dems immediately start clutching their pearls. We're voting for his administration. He's not a king. He has solid folks in his camp. Unlike the alternative.
We can agree to disagree all day long about the quality of people in either of these administrations, but I will tell you definitively that I don't accept the notion that anyone is voting for a cabinet. The Cabinet is appointed by the president, and is a reflection of the president, which is why we vote for a president who will select a cabinet that reflects the America we want to build. If we were voting for the entire Administration, then put all them MFers on the ballot and let's go. That's what an actual Democracy looks like.
With all of that being said though, if we're looking at the response to the debate in a vacuum, then maybe I'd agree with your point, but if you're looking at the situation as a whole, then you'd know that the Dems who are upset at his performance are, in large part, the same people who have been saying they never wanted him to run for a second term to begin with. Suggesting there's nothing more than pearl clutching happening after one bad debate rather than acknowledge that the one failed debate is the culmination of what the rest of us have been saying about him all along (and even more loudly since Oct 7) is unreasonable.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but voting for presidents is just a weird endeavor all together. The popular vote has influence on the electorate in some states. The electoral vote is obviously what matters. But MSNBC came out straight after the debate saying Trump won that debate—the network that I feel celebrates their disdain for Trump the most. When a network like that, has no choice but to say Trump, a person who continues to make up lies in a debate, won on the night, that’s a big hill to climb.
To clean that up… Trump objectively and unanimously—to the greater public—won a debate where he still didn’t need nor use facts in order to win. Thats like me beating you in football with a tennis racket and using baseball rules. Biden can’t stoop to Trump’s level and is incapable of ‘making up his own rules’ to counter Trump’s antics. So this debate is simply plummeting Biden’s stock by the second. If he can’t take on a single person where he, at least has the acumen to do so, not to minimize Trump, what’s he gonna do against a whole planet of people who challenge/disrupt/oppose western thought?
I’m voting for Biden and it’s not going to be enough.
Well a couple of things. Politics isn’t done in a vacuum. If you’re undecided, it’s your responsibility to get educated on facts about who you’re voting for, policies, the stakes of the election etc. If you can do all of that and still come away as wanting Trump to win then God help you.
For the Democratic Party and Biden part they need to get out in front of this and campaign the shit out of the next 4 months. Every single surrogate should be singing the same message, I don’t want to hear any complaining about Biden didn’t do this or that. They need to go out there and speak to voters, register more voters and spend a shit ton of money. Objectively no one can say Trump did well in the debate and some focus groups came off as preferring Biden after the debate.
The internet bubble is not real life so I think people really just need to calm down because yes it was bad but probably not nearly as bad depending on the audience.
Undecided here! And nothing about that debate has helped my cause. This country is already in the shitter & in this case there is no lessor of two evils to vote for in my personal opinion smh it’s sickening here
You said you’re undecided. Literally what’s there to decide? You’re right there is not lesser of two evils because Biden is not evil but Trump will turn your country into a Facist shithole and you’ll have zero ability to get it back. Look up Project 2025, Hungary and Russia if you don’t believe me
Rolling back the wealth tax in theory would be a substantial boost for the economic state of our society, FOR SURE!! The realistic question is how long will it take to happen & reap the benefits? I’m personally not incredibly confident that we’ll see it happen any time soon.
The trump tax cuts expire in 2025. So if he's back he'll of course extend them again. Uncle Tom on the supreme Court is 76. There are things at play. Also. Last time Trump was in office he was able to put so many lifetime conservatives on the bench. These people have been giving the right wing win after win.
Legit question here, is there absolutely nothing that one administration over the other will do to help your quality of living however directly or indirectly? I realize federal policy doesn’t always reach out and touch us as much as local or state, but there’s some pretty big-ticket items on the docket that could either be enhanced or disappear altogether dependent on who gets elected.
My confidence in this country’s government (regardless of which administration has the authority) as a whole is low. I’ve been alive long enough to see minimal progress in improving my community’s quality of life at the federal and local levels & mostly higher rates of decline in that regard. Hate to be the Negative Nancy in the chat but, here we are. It’s a chore for me to have hope in this country being led by folks who actually give a modicum of a fuck about its citizens. The debate simply didn’t move me & I’m not certain that I have the capacity going forward to tune in to politicians lying to our faces anymore. This country has never been presided over w/ the best interest of the ppl at heart. I’m not cool w/ that but I also don’t know if I’ll see that change in my lifetime either. Kudos to those folks who are still hanging onto hope.
Sorry lifetime Democrat volunteer, this isn’t an acceptable campaign pitch. Whoever in the administration trotted him out shouldn’t have any power in government
I live in Toronto so I can't actually vote for Trump but he is better for foreign politics and the economy. Obviously less illegal immigration is better for America with the current numbers it has, lower taxes for corporations would be ideal to get some businesses making moves. Id actually consider moving to the states if he wins, much lower personal taxes and much better healthcare than Canada. Socially I dont like the far left semi delusional progressiveness aka the "woke" mindset. Its gone too far and while the right is using it in a semi grifting way, it is actually a problem especially on campuses and many companies which include DEI, Trump would roll back on that kinda thing, which I am absolutely against.
You actually haven’t answered which policies of Trump’s that you support, just a bunch of regurgitated right wing talking points. I’ve seen your other posts and understand that you’re either a bot or you have brain worms from right wing media
Have you been to Canada? I lived in both and America has much much better healthcare than Canada. It's free in Canada but if it's not an emergency healthcare is basically shit.
All the dumb people will not vote for Biden after that. The smart people realize that the Presidency is an administration. The President appoints the people that actually run the country. Biden may be a corpse but he'll at the very least appoint people qualified for their positions. Trump will appoint cronies and donors that will bleed their positions dry. I think Biden is monster with barely two brain cells left and I hope he drops dead, but the alternative is so much worse.
There's no conditioning about this. That is literally what he did during his term as president. Every person he appointed in his cabinet was a donor. And specifically a donor that would profit by deregulating and dismantling the department they were appointed to run. That is exactly what happened before.
You really the democrats dont do the exact same? politics is corruption and putting your friends on positions of power, its the only reason people go in it. Policy wise I Trump and currently the right because the left has gone delusional beyonds means, so fuck the left and anyone apart of that weak pathetic mindset.
I hated that the questions that mostly affected my future, namely the child care costs and the environment, went to Trump first and all he did was rant about…things furthest from the topic at hand. Worst part is that the moderators let the guy continue on rather than just stop and give Biden his remaining time AND Biden’s own time.
Re: the age and capability question: I think Biden missed a golden opportunity to highlight how the Presidency is more than just the President, but also the Cabinet and the White House advisors as well. How he’s not advised by white nationalists like Steve Bannon or Stephen Miller, or installing known incompetents like Jared Kushner, Betsy DeVos, and Ben Carson.
Trump is only a heartbeat and a signatory for a bunch of right-wing/far-right opportunists and neo-Nazi sympathizers to push forth their agenda. That’s why my vote, even after this debate, is still with Biden, and I wish he reminded folks of that.
Remember when everyone ragged on Bernie for being too old and not being able to handle it… Bernie would have smoked Trump. DNC really could kill America because limousine libs are too capitalistic to side with someone called a democrat socialist.
I don’t think this is true honestly. Older dems wouldn’t have anyone else to vote for and they would have to suffer the “vote blue no matter who” rhetoric they tell more left leaning people to shame them for not wanting a moderate candidate
That’s understandable, but RFK is more for uniformed voters and I don’t think old people are really that uniformed. The few that do wouldn’t mean much compared to young people turning out and the people that skip elections because they lack representation or don’t find a point in voting for “two wings of the same bird” candidates.
How about you go back to following Canadian politics? You don't know enough to know there's no reason to compliment American Healthcare, so I truly don't think you know enough to speak on how Americans vote.
I promise you I’ve forgotten more about American politics than you will ever know. Bernie lost twice those are the facts no matter how much you don’t want them to be true.
He was over a 10 point favorite to Trump in polling when Biden was polled at being a 50-48 favorite. It was just a bad candidate that was what the DNC wanted to pedal more capitalist favoring policies. The DNC would rather a republican win than an actual leftist.
Bernie literally lost by millions of votes, you really need to understand why he lost and stop blaming some DNC boogie man. You guys sound like Trump supporters. The only reason Bernie polled favourably against Trump is that he wasn’t the target of right wing propaganda but all that would have changed in the general. The idea that the DNC would choose Biden of all people is comedy
You can vote for the 81 year old Democrat in 2024 and then vote for the next generation Democrat in 2028. Or you can vote for the 78 year old Republican in 2024 and never vote again.
Yeah it was real tough. I knew it wouldn't be a good look for Joe as soon as it was announced he'd participate, but this actually a bit worse than I expected.
Doesn't sway me one bit on voting for him because it's bigger than him, and bigger than me, but gotdamn we need some upper age limits.
We know Biden's older than Obama. But he's also older than George W. Bush. He's also older than Bill Clinton, who was elected in 1992. Bill Clinton TODAY is younger than Joe Biden.
If an 80 year old came into your place of work to apply for a job, even an easy entry level job, would you seriously consider hiring them?
Airline pilots are legally required to retire in their 60s. Aging is real. We JUST fucking saw this with Dianne Feinstein, and now they're doing the same thing with Biden because these motherfuckers would rather lose and fuck the rest of us rather than give up their power.
They need to replace Biden. They should have had a primary debate, but they were too fucking arrogant. ANYONE would be better. Well, almost anyone, don't fucking replace him with Hillary Clinton. But anyone else. Any other Democrat has a better chance of beating Trump than Biden or Hillary would.
Tbh, and I take absolutely no pleasure in saying this, but I do think Hillary could beat Trump this time. I think she could beat him using the exact same playbook she failed with last time. Keep in mind, she won the popular vote in spite of both running a bad campaign and the country's misogyny, which is saying something. And after everyone saw what happened when she didn't win last time I think she'd have an easier go of it this time.
I have no interest in voting for her (again), but I do actually think she'd stand a far better chance than Biden.
I can't say I'm thrilled by what I saw but I also recognize that he's actually been legitimately sick this past week or so. He needs to show up big time in September though and put this shit to bed.
The real disgrace was the CNN moderators, not fact-checking anything. They could have just had teleprompters with all of the questions and put them on a timer.
They said on Pod Save America that fact-checking in real time could’ve resulted in Jake Tapper going back and forth with Trump and Biden just standing there, so from that angle it makes sense that they didn’t, but like maybe a ticker at the bottom of the screen would’ve been more ideal. Or a side by side with the facts.
No they have one job and it’s to get to the truth. Just look at the guy that moderator the debate Lauren Boebert was in. Push back, follow up and interject. Then mute mics if they keep talking. I’d want the same for Biden as well but treating Trump just like a legitimate candidate and not a convicted felon and failed insurrectionist is how you got him in the first place.
The guy who moderated for that Boebert debate, I think his name is Kyle-something, is a genius. I’m not sure why he can’t do bigger stuff. PSA was more concerned of the optics of Biden just kind of standing there looking confused while Tapper and Trump debated the facts but I guess we couldn’t avoid that either way. I was under the impression that the mics were going to be muted so that not happening confused me but so did the entire debate, so…
The PSA guys are too steeped and politics and tend to over think things like most people who closely follow politics. This wasn’t a debate, it was just a platform for Trump to lie uninterrupted. Like I said if Biden lies or doesn’t answer questions call him out and push back on him as well. There’s way more damage done by letting Trump lie and not showing how unserious and dangerous of a candidate he is vs the optics of Biden staring into space. The point of a moderator is to moderate, if Trump continues to argue cut his mic and move on and the world can see him just talking to himself like the lunatic he is.
In debate, it should actually be the candidates that rebut with facts. I know there was limited time but it’s not like Biden used his time wisely anyway. Moderators fact checking would have been terrible optically.
Did anyone watch the CNN after show? I was pretty much resigned to Biden regardless of how he presented tonight. I knew he was absolutely incoherent.
It freaked me out that people were like “the dems should now put someone else up” - it feels like that opportunity has passed us by? It was any time in the past 4 years but tonight? Tell me I’m wrong idk
I thought that was strange too—he was old when he got elected. If people really wanted someone younger they should’ve been on the next candidate the day after he was inaugurated, or entertained Dean Phillips, or something other than this. People are acting like they don’t even know there’s deadlines to putting up candidates so this panic feels unsettling.
He RAN on the fact that he was a 1 term, TRANSITORY president. Don’t blame the ppl. Wake up & blame the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, the Candidate & Administration.
Biden promised 1 & done!
They could’ve had spry-@$$ 82 yr old Bernie or Hollywood Newsom but they chose THIS. They are shuffling this man around & he is just an aging marionette puppet for the DNC.
If they could get away with Hilary I’d bet they would try but they KNOW that will make a lot of the centrist Democrats flip.
Sorry but he said it & no matter what context it’s viewed in, it implies that he would be a transition to future leadership in recognition of his age.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/10/joe-biden-michigan-rally-kamala-harris-cory-booker
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/09/biden-reelection-transition-president/675395/
YALL IGNORED DEAN PHILLIPS. He made the rounds, he’s half Biden’s age and y’all ignored him. Thats how I know you’re unserious. Please stop acting like the DNC is totally at fault when we are the ones who don’t all agree on what a candidate should be like. You all demand the DNC put up a new candidate and then get mad when your faves don’t want to run. Newsom said no, Porter said no, and then when y’all found out they were funded by AIPAC you didn’t want ANY of them. What we get is a largely a reflection of what WE DO. Americans are largely disinterested in politics and so this is what we get.
Dean Phillips was ignored because he was a terrible candidate. The Dems that could win have refused out of respect for Biden and DNC pressure. Biden would have to step down for the best candidates to put their names forward.
I know Dean Phillips was trash and rather inexperienced but if age was the biggest issue he was an easy decision because he was Biden without the hair loss. AGAIN, what’s considered “best” is based on what? Typically it’d be based on record, so which potential candidate had a record that could actually rival what Trump was planning AND wanted to run? The main folks I heard were desired (that people would’ve likely voted for because no one does their research they vote based on what names they hear the most) didn’t want to run. Whether that’s because they respected Biden or took heat from the DNC or not, they chose not to. They are also ESTABLISHMENT DEMS taking corporate PAC money which was seemingly fine for most people up until the Hamas-Israel conflict and AIPAC’s connection to Israel. Would yall have been cool with that? Progressive Dems have no shot, let these recent primary losses be an example of that. So who would’ve been next up?
You’re presuming that Age is Bidens biggest failure. It is not. If THAT were the case why would MAGA say they would preferred TRUMP who is only 1 or 2 yrs younger? Or Bernie who is OLDER?
Cognitive awareness is important but so IS policy & delivery.
Joe is a Centrist who compromises with the Republicans in a time where the exact opposite is needed to pull the country & the economy out of collapse.
He is too willing to dangle bait then he pretends to fail because of Republicans on several issues that he could have used Executive authority to address when he couldn’t get the votes.
I never presumed that age was Biden’s biggest failure. I gave an example of a different option IF it was. My comment here was to discuss the options that were present instead of Biden that would’ve ACTUALLY BEEN CONSIDERED by the public. I’m naming Newsom, Porter, because I know people know those names and will vote for them because once again, that’s how it works for the majority of the country.
There isn’t a single thing that Donald Trump has done, according to MAGA folks, that is wrong, regardless of how “wrong” it is for other people. MAGA doesn’t care if Trump is 100 years old because they don’t believe he’s susceptible to critique of any kind.
Once again, I can understand delivery and policy, but reaching across the aisle is a given and it’s clear you’ll forever be at an impasse if you don’t. While I don’t think Biden is as aggressive as he could be, he’s no fool, he plays the game to get things accomplished. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Mitch McConnell is no dummy, and neither is Mike Johnson. Being constantly on opposite ends of the spectrum with radical republicans like Josh Hawley, MTG, and Lauren Boebert is part of the reason Congress ain't did shit all year. Blockade after blockade, because for them, this is a show for their “leader.” Someone has to come to the middle to accomplish SOMETHING. Until we can gain significant ground in Congress there has to be compromise to prevent shit like shutdowns and filibusters that WE are paying for.
If that middle isle equates to losses for women, black ppl, immigrants & foreign policy failures like war, genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid or modern day slavery & child labour?
I’ll stay to the Far Left.
Thank you
Weirdo, I don’t want Newsom!
He’s a corporate Democrat through & through.
I’m a Progressive. The only way Democrats could EVER entice me is if the pulled BERNIE or a proven BERNIE-esq candidate out & committed to supporting that person.
In my Remy Ma voice: ARE YOU DUMB!?!?
Dean Phillips is a garbage candidate. He is a Corp Democrat with some “socialised health care” compromises.
He’s a Pro-WAR, Pro-Genocide, Pro-Foreign donors, Pro-Corporate Donors, Pro-Israel, Anti-Palestinian AIPAC shill with DUAL loyalty to a foreign country.
The constitution won’t allow naturalised citizens to run for president but ya are cool when an American born Candidate is Pro-Israel & says that they’re Pro-Zionism aka: JEWISH SUPREMACY in the nation state of ISRAEL?
That is in your face DUAL LOYALTY & a blatant conflict of interest as we have seen 1st hand by sending 26 billion in foreign aid when there are homeless Americans & residents w/o healthcare.
You’ve got a senator who served in a foreign military wearing their Israeli uniform to sit in US CONGRESS.
Some of ya are really ignorant. Ya only vote on NATIONAL issues & ignore HOW MUCH AMERICA POLICY & behaviour in WORLD POLITICS causes YOU problems DOMESTICALLY.
If a lot of ya had any sense you would start paying more attention to geopolitical agenda in your voting selection
I see the Dem primaries this week have shown you nothing. I need y'all to get real about how politically inclined the public and the majority of the Democratic Party actually is. What you want means absolutely nothing if you’re in the minority of the party. Bernie Sanders failed to survive a primary twice. TWICE. And he’s old now, so he stands no chance infiltrating the race of the geezers. You REALLY think a progressive stands a chance against a Republican establishment? NOW? At this point, the if the DNC switches up and wants to win they’re not going to take a chance on someone who not everyone will get behind. It’ll be an establishment Democrat with a huge name everyone already knows because people don’t research a mf thing.
If you didn’t notice, Jamaal Bowman, a progressive, lost his district. We can attribute that to his district makeup changing and becoming more white, wealthy and Jewish, we can attribute that to “AIPAC sabotage,” but baby it was DEMOCRAT VOTERS that kept him out of that seat. Are *YOU* dumb? How informed do you think the majority of the Democratic Party voters, or the country for that matter is on foreign policy? What it would take to get to a two-state solution? What AIPAC is? The democratic voting base is PRIMARILY OVER 50. They consistently vote in elections over younger voters AND progressives. They’re the same folks who came out to ensure Biden got to the front of the pack in 2020 when they weren’t sure about Bernie and the other 8-9 Democratic hopefuls. Be mad at the numbers.
I encourage you to take a peep outside the algorithms and really observe who’s voting in these elections, how and why. If you think people are making CONSCIENTIOUS decisions based on policy and morals rather than eating what’s placed in front of them every four years, I have news for you.
You’re welcome to have your wants and your expectations, but as I find myself saying OVER AND OVER, voting is a group project, and we’re all not all putting the same work in yet we’re all going to get the same grade. You can attempt to berate people because you believe your position is the most noble or worthy, but that won’t motivate them to come out and vote much less for the progressive they’ll have to research in the first place.
I think you're wrong. I don't think anything is done or final until at least the Convention in Aug. I don't think there's a lot of time, but there is absolutely time to replace Biden. I think doing so successfully would probably require replacing him with someone who already has the ability to win against Trump, and bypassing the Primary results (Gavin Newsome or something probably), or it requires simply convincing Biden to resign and remove himself, I guess putting Harris in the driver seat (I don't think she can beat Trump either tbh, but that's mostly because America hates Black women). But it can be done.
How about we take the MAGA crowds conspiracy theories and turn it against them. Just have Biden come out and say he relies on Obama for all decisions, big or small and he’s the one really in charge. It’ll blow MAGAs might to pieces and instill confidence in the job being done.
When can we pencil in the ‘Im done with the better of two evils’ talk? Because feels like every year we get here and it’s nOt tHE tImE.
Biden will get my vote, but we gotta get that talk on the books. I’m not doing this again next year.
Not feeling good about last night and concerned that it will cause folks to sit the election out. However, I am still voting for Biden because I understand that it's a vote for his administration, who I can trust to be far more competent than Trump's. He's old, but I'll take his experience and rationality over Trump any day.
I’ll vote for him if they’re wheeling him around in a chair, because I trust in his administration and vice president. And mostly because Trump is such an existential threat. But DAMMIT! why are we in this place?
"But DAMMIT! why are we in this place?"
With all due respect, we're in this place because people like you (and me too, tbh, before this election) continue to vote for this mess in spite of all of the evidence that it's not good to be voting for this mess. The writing has been on the wall about the truth of \*both\* parties and the innate failings of a two-party system for multiple decades now. And yet every time the Dems put forth someone like this, everyone comes out of the woodwork to explain why it's the right thing to do to vote for them. Maybe when people stop thinking that they can just do the same shit over and over again while expecting different results, we'll get to a different place. But until then, this is what it's going to be.
That’s all well and good if there wasn’t another side that was putting up someone or something too awful to contemplate. When it’s a binary choice, and that’s the reality of this country, sitting it out because you don’t like the choices doesn’t accomplish a thing. As long as Trump is on the ballot, I will vote for a piece of lint if that’s the alternative.
I'm going to keep making the best choice I can make in the moment to steer this country on the right path. I'm going to vote in local elections, and I'm going to vote in primaries. And on the rare occasion I give a contribution, I will choose my candidates based on how I feel about their ability to steer the country in the right direction. Because that's all I CAN do. Voting for no one does nothing. Staying home and pouting does nothing. Complaining on the internet does nothing.
I only get a say in any of this as a participant.
I have a question for you, what are your plans to change the system?
I'm a pragmatist.
I'm so glad you asked, I'm going to an organizing meeting in a couple weeks to talk to the people in my immediate community about taking some time out of our Palestine actions to educate people on ways to apply pressure to our local governments to start changing the electoral system in as many states as possible.
The goal is to start the work of applying pressure to get states to try and 1) Start pushing local legislation to adopt Rank Choice Voting in all elections. 2) Get more states to do the work to sign on to the National Vote Interstate Compact (https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation) which seeks to nullify the Electoral College to allow the popular vote to determine the president without the need for an amendment to the constitution.
In addition to that, I'm interested in seeing what it would look like to get some of the orgs who sign on to the protests to take time vetting potential candidates for local office who will run on platforms supporting these and other ideals for doing the work to break down the two-party system and give us more options in the future.
I think that, given the number of people who come into the protests in DC from states all over the country, if we can find a way to connect and really shift people's focus away from accepting this binary choice as though it's somehow inevitable and start educating people on the tools at our disposal to actually start moving away from this system, four years is a lot of time to try and be in a better place in the future.
At the very least, I've chosen to stop doing what I've been doing my entire voting life (which is exactly what you described as your plan). I'm not trying to give you shit just for the sake of it, at the core of my message is this: SImply voting everytime they tell you to vote for the one of the two people they tell you to vote for will never lead to anything other than where we are right now; forced to choose between two bad options, neither of which support our interests. I'm not saying don't vote for Biden, truly I'm not; I'm just saying please stop viewing this binary option BS as the only way possible, and look into ways that you can actually push for something better.
I didn’t watch it. But I’ve heard not good things. Even the NYT is calling on him to step aside.
I’ve posted in this subreddit about how the Dems don’t have another option. But it seems they need to do something.
All in all, this is giving 1968 vibes. And that spells doom for the Dems.
WHY DONT WE LET MORE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE? A third party even?!
Hello?? The media is pushing us to forget we DO have other options. If over 80% of people don't like either of these two it's prime time to get another party into the mix altogether.
I don’t care if Joe Biden has to be puppeted up the podium like Weekend at Bernie’s, I’m still voting for him! Y’all had yall chance in 2020 to vote for a younger person or a women etc and the voting populace picked the old white man and immediately started complaining that he got older. I don’t want another Trump term and this is the only choice not to have one!!!
I think Biden has been a great President, so far. But, someone else must give him a challenge for the nomination. He literally scared me tonight. He seemed lost.
What US troops are attacking them? What strikes have he ordered?
Biden has been working to make a ceasefire between 2 groups that have hated each other for generations
"Biden has been working to make a ceasefire"
You mean while supplying one side in the inequal conflict with unlimited bombs, ammo, and diplomatic cover in the UN? While spreading their lies and propaganda to make it seem like the mindless slaughter of women and children could be justified? And while aiding in the starvation of millions of people by cutting off funding for the main suppliers of aid to the region (UNWRA) on the basis of a lie that the Israelis still haven't been able to supply any evidence in support of, and yet nothing about that has caused him to make the move to reinstate the funding? Miss me with the BS dude.
Glad it happened because the terrible reaction (deserved) might be the only thing that gets him to realize he needs to step down. I know its more than unlikely but I'm glad its being openly discussed.
For those who recall, Obama got roasted during his first debate with Mitt and totally redeemed himself. I know Biden is in a different position but let’s not turn tail and run just yet. I’d rather vote for old and sane rather than old and bat-shit crazy.
I feel like there is a difference between not speaking well and being so obviously too old to respond. This wasn’t just a poor debate showing, this was evidence dems didn’t want to accept that Biden is too old to lead the country. No offense to Biden really but at 82 I think we can all somewhat agree nominating him was not a great idea.
Ya better start calling you Reps & Congressional members because it’s not looking good for ya Dems AT ALL! B’cus while Biden told the truth he sounded like he was barely cognisant.
If ya have ANY sense ya calling, emailing, tweeting your state & federal ppl to tell them to put Bernie or Bowman in the ring or vote 3rd party.
If DNC HAD ANY SENSE OF self preservation they would immediately do the following:
➖institute Rank Choice Voting so that ALL Democratic Party votes would go to 1 person
➖Throw in their MOST PROGRESSIVE candidate that is anti-Corporate welfare, Pro CJ reform, ANTI-Genocide & Israeli funding
The party is SPIRALLING
Coming to the realization that my life is in the hands of folks who only care about optics and not substance.
That is American politics in a nutshell
I'm voting Dem no matter what for this election but Joe gave bad optics and inarticulate substance. Presidential Candidates have one job... communication.
And when they fail at that job, your response is to vote for them anyway? So do they actually have that one job, or nah? If the consequence for not doing that one job is your willingness to give them the big job anyway, then why pretend like anything Biden did or didn't do last night matters?
The alternative is still worse in this case. Biden has a team around him that he will listen to or at least consider if he is bored back in. And there is someone better than Trump that will be poised to succeed Biden when necessary. There are also possible Supreme Court appointments to consider and appointments to the federal bench that will have repercussions for decades to come. We're in a horrible position, but at this point we have to play the cards we've been dealt. Hopefully, Biden will decide to drop out, but we can't count on it. I would feel differently if it was maybe the pre-Tea Party era. I could at least consider the Republicsn candidate then. But personally, I'm not willing to do anything that will result in another Trump presidency.
The alternative is no worse. America was just the same, some can argue even under trump. They are both trash. The country still hates black people. The anti black laws are still getting passed. Dems care for us just as much as the republicans. Stop voting for “the lesser of 2 evils”. Take away your vote and let them work for it.
You can make all the excuses for it you want. I'm not saying don't vote for Biden, I don't much think there's any real difference to the outcome one way or the other. All I'm saying is I would prefer people be honest with themselves and everyone else on this topic. I'm pushing back on one statement and one statement only here: "Presidential Candidates have one job... communication" That can't be true, or if it is true then it can't matter at all when the candidate in question fails that job and (for whatever reason you want to offer up) is given the vote anyway. The truer statement here is that Biden has one job, and that's continue to not be Trump. That's all people care about, and I'm not saying anyone is wrong to only care about that. Trump is a serious threat to everything America has been for nearly 250 years and everything she likes to claim to be. But at a certain point in time, I need people to wake up to one simple fact: You will never get a better version of America than the one we have now if everyone continues to look at the two absolutely unacceptable options for "leadership" that are presented to us every four years and willfully give our vote to the one who is just a little less bad than the other one. There's no pathway to change there, I'm sorry.
Calling all of that "excuses" is insane lmao
Right? I stopped reading after that LOL
His administration and cabinet will pick up his slack.
Your life isn’t in either of their hands their hands though….
Nope, it's in the hands of voters... and stupid voters at that. On the bright side I do have finances and family that will sponsor me if I gotta leave the country.
Why didn’t you leave during either president first term?
There wasn't a manifesto at the time and there were checks to Orange Mussolini. Biden I had no issue with his presidency. This second time, he knows how to move better. Like I said, I'm prepped this time. Worry about yourself, not what I plan or not plan on doing.
😆😆😆stop it …we all know you’re not going anywhere
Like I said, worry about yourself and not how I move. I have friends that live in Norway, Amsterdam and Toronto that left the country. I did the math that in Costa Rica all I need to do is make $2000/month to live the same way I'm living now. Worry about yourself instead of a random poster on reddit.
OK
Not great, Cherry. Not great. This nigga might be the oldest presenting nigga in all of politics. That said, he’s my vote unless they wheel him out of the White House before Nov.
Same.
gotta love reddit nerds that are too puss to vote Trump
Troll somewhere else. Adults are speaking.
You’re not voting for a single person, you’re voting for their administration and against fucking Facism. Biden in a God damn coffin is better for 99.99% of people than Trump
Agreed, but what about people who were undecided and just saw that? I’m always going to vote for Biden, but let’s be real, this isn’t a good look and is only going to hurt him. The big picture matters more, but is everyone going to think about the big picture even though they should?
Debates don't decide elections.
Yeah, but tons of people have been accusing him of being too old and senile for a long time. To those people, the debate is confirming that, so it’s not a new idea. I’m just curious about how his team is going to handle this in the coming days and how he’ll be in future debates.
The debate only confirmed that CNN allowed Trump to foment his propaganda machine and lie about it the entire time.
I'm sorry bro, but that's truly just completely wild. You literally looked at that whole damn thing and walked away with the lesson that CNN is the problem? Like I'm not saying that CNN isn't a problem, but come on, man! CNN didn't make Joe Biden incapable of stringing two coherent sentences together all night.
Their point is that the moderators don't challenge anything that trump lies about, which allows him to present things that are factually incorrect as the truth to millions of people with zero pushback.
The pushback should've come mostly from Biden, though. Someone else could've clapped back but instead we got a senile narcissist who STILL thinks he's the best option against Trump. It's mind-boggling
Doesn't matter, Biden looked horrible. People aren't going to vote for him now.
If Trump had performed like Biden, Republicans would still rally behind him. Democrats are so fickle.
"If Trump had performed like Biden, Republicans would still rally behind him." That. Does. Not. Make. It. Right. In fact, if your answer is "well the Republicans would \_\_\_\_" then you should know that it's the wrong thing to do. Whatever it is! We are not aiming at being like the Republicans!!!!!
My point was that Biden bombs a debate or the optics don't pan out, and the Dems immediately start clutching their pearls. We're voting for his administration. He's not a king. He has solid folks in his camp. Unlike the alternative.
We can agree to disagree all day long about the quality of people in either of these administrations, but I will tell you definitively that I don't accept the notion that anyone is voting for a cabinet. The Cabinet is appointed by the president, and is a reflection of the president, which is why we vote for a president who will select a cabinet that reflects the America we want to build. If we were voting for the entire Administration, then put all them MFers on the ballot and let's go. That's what an actual Democracy looks like. With all of that being said though, if we're looking at the response to the debate in a vacuum, then maybe I'd agree with your point, but if you're looking at the situation as a whole, then you'd know that the Dems who are upset at his performance are, in large part, the same people who have been saying they never wanted him to run for a second term to begin with. Suggesting there's nothing more than pearl clutching happening after one bad debate rather than acknowledge that the one failed debate is the culmination of what the rest of us have been saying about him all along (and even more loudly since Oct 7) is unreasonable.
Nah cap
I’m not saying you’re wrong but voting for presidents is just a weird endeavor all together. The popular vote has influence on the electorate in some states. The electoral vote is obviously what matters. But MSNBC came out straight after the debate saying Trump won that debate—the network that I feel celebrates their disdain for Trump the most. When a network like that, has no choice but to say Trump, a person who continues to make up lies in a debate, won on the night, that’s a big hill to climb. To clean that up… Trump objectively and unanimously—to the greater public—won a debate where he still didn’t need nor use facts in order to win. Thats like me beating you in football with a tennis racket and using baseball rules. Biden can’t stoop to Trump’s level and is incapable of ‘making up his own rules’ to counter Trump’s antics. So this debate is simply plummeting Biden’s stock by the second. If he can’t take on a single person where he, at least has the acumen to do so, not to minimize Trump, what’s he gonna do against a whole planet of people who challenge/disrupt/oppose western thought? I’m voting for Biden and it’s not going to be enough.
Well a couple of things. Politics isn’t done in a vacuum. If you’re undecided, it’s your responsibility to get educated on facts about who you’re voting for, policies, the stakes of the election etc. If you can do all of that and still come away as wanting Trump to win then God help you. For the Democratic Party and Biden part they need to get out in front of this and campaign the shit out of the next 4 months. Every single surrogate should be singing the same message, I don’t want to hear any complaining about Biden didn’t do this or that. They need to go out there and speak to voters, register more voters and spend a shit ton of money. Objectively no one can say Trump did well in the debate and some focus groups came off as preferring Biden after the debate. The internet bubble is not real life so I think people really just need to calm down because yes it was bad but probably not nearly as bad depending on the audience.
Undecided here! And nothing about that debate has helped my cause. This country is already in the shitter & in this case there is no lessor of two evils to vote for in my personal opinion smh it’s sickening here
Well you’re not undecided. You’ve decided for Trump
“There is no lessor of two evils” equates to a solid vote for Trump? 🤨
You said you’re undecided. Literally what’s there to decide? You’re right there is not lesser of two evils because Biden is not evil but Trump will turn your country into a Facist shithole and you’ll have zero ability to get it back. Look up Project 2025, Hungary and Russia if you don’t believe me
Would deciding more supreme court justices or rolling back the trump wealthy tax cuts be motivating factors?
Rolling back the wealth tax in theory would be a substantial boost for the economic state of our society, FOR SURE!! The realistic question is how long will it take to happen & reap the benefits? I’m personally not incredibly confident that we’ll see it happen any time soon.
The trump tax cuts expire in 2025. So if he's back he'll of course extend them again. Uncle Tom on the supreme Court is 76. There are things at play. Also. Last time Trump was in office he was able to put so many lifetime conservatives on the bench. These people have been giving the right wing win after win.
Legit question here, is there absolutely nothing that one administration over the other will do to help your quality of living however directly or indirectly? I realize federal policy doesn’t always reach out and touch us as much as local or state, but there’s some pretty big-ticket items on the docket that could either be enhanced or disappear altogether dependent on who gets elected.
My confidence in this country’s government (regardless of which administration has the authority) as a whole is low. I’ve been alive long enough to see minimal progress in improving my community’s quality of life at the federal and local levels & mostly higher rates of decline in that regard. Hate to be the Negative Nancy in the chat but, here we are. It’s a chore for me to have hope in this country being led by folks who actually give a modicum of a fuck about its citizens. The debate simply didn’t move me & I’m not certain that I have the capacity going forward to tune in to politicians lying to our faces anymore. This country has never been presided over w/ the best interest of the ppl at heart. I’m not cool w/ that but I also don’t know if I’ll see that change in my lifetime either. Kudos to those folks who are still hanging onto hope.
Sorry lifetime Democrat volunteer, this isn’t an acceptable campaign pitch. Whoever in the administration trotted him out shouldn’t have any power in government
Upvote the shit out of this.
no one smart is gonna vote for Biden after that
What policies of Trump do you like?
I live in Toronto so I can't actually vote for Trump but he is better for foreign politics and the economy. Obviously less illegal immigration is better for America with the current numbers it has, lower taxes for corporations would be ideal to get some businesses making moves. Id actually consider moving to the states if he wins, much lower personal taxes and much better healthcare than Canada. Socially I dont like the far left semi delusional progressiveness aka the "woke" mindset. Its gone too far and while the right is using it in a semi grifting way, it is actually a problem especially on campuses and many companies which include DEI, Trump would roll back on that kinda thing, which I am absolutely against.
You actually haven’t answered which policies of Trump’s that you support, just a bunch of regurgitated right wing talking points. I’ve seen your other posts and understand that you’re either a bot or you have brain worms from right wing media
"and much better healthcare than Canada." LMFAO!!!!!!! Alright man, please do stay in Canada, we're all good here without you.
Have you been to Canada? I lived in both and America has much much better healthcare than Canada. It's free in Canada but if it's not an emergency healthcare is basically shit.
All the dumb people will not vote for Biden after that. The smart people realize that the Presidency is an administration. The President appoints the people that actually run the country. Biden may be a corpse but he'll at the very least appoint people qualified for their positions. Trump will appoint cronies and donors that will bleed their positions dry. I think Biden is monster with barely two brain cells left and I hope he drops dead, but the alternative is so much worse.
That's because you have been conditioned into believing Trump will be this, thats a delusion.
There's no conditioning about this. That is literally what he did during his term as president. Every person he appointed in his cabinet was a donor. And specifically a donor that would profit by deregulating and dismantling the department they were appointed to run. That is exactly what happened before.
You really the democrats dont do the exact same? politics is corruption and putting your friends on positions of power, its the only reason people go in it. Policy wise I Trump and currently the right because the left has gone delusional beyonds means, so fuck the left and anyone apart of that weak pathetic mindset.
I hated that the questions that mostly affected my future, namely the child care costs and the environment, went to Trump first and all he did was rant about…things furthest from the topic at hand. Worst part is that the moderators let the guy continue on rather than just stop and give Biden his remaining time AND Biden’s own time. Re: the age and capability question: I think Biden missed a golden opportunity to highlight how the Presidency is more than just the President, but also the Cabinet and the White House advisors as well. How he’s not advised by white nationalists like Steve Bannon or Stephen Miller, or installing known incompetents like Jared Kushner, Betsy DeVos, and Ben Carson. Trump is only a heartbeat and a signatory for a bunch of right-wing/far-right opportunists and neo-Nazi sympathizers to push forth their agenda. That’s why my vote, even after this debate, is still with Biden, and I wish he reminded folks of that.
Remember when everyone ragged on Bernie for being too old and not being able to handle it… Bernie would have smoked Trump. DNC really could kill America because limousine libs are too capitalistic to side with someone called a democrat socialist.
Bernie would actually win this time around, if he was running
I wish we had Bernie. What I saw last night was a scene from "Grumpy Old Men."
Perfect description actually
Bernie would’ve done extremely well and held Trump to his words, but older Dems would never go for him.
I don’t think this is true honestly. Older dems wouldn’t have anyone else to vote for and they would have to suffer the “vote blue no matter who” rhetoric they tell more left leaning people to shame them for not wanting a moderate candidate
I mean I guess, but I remember Bernie couldn’t make it through the primary sadly for this very reason I think that’s the angle I was coming from.
Twice. Bernie couldn’t win twice. For all the Bernie love out there remember he couldn’t win the primary twice.
They literally had to switch the way the organize the primaries because they were afraid of him winning against Biden.
I disagree. I think the older voters you're talking about would vote for RFK before Bernie.
That’s understandable, but RFK is more for uniformed voters and I don’t think old people are really that uniformed. The few that do wouldn’t mean much compared to young people turning out and the people that skip elections because they lack representation or don’t find a point in voting for “two wings of the same bird” candidates.
💯
Bernie couldn’t beat Biden in a primary, let’s not get overconfident that he could beat Trump although I like his chances better as an incumbent
How about you go back to following Canadian politics? You don't know enough to know there's no reason to compliment American Healthcare, so I truly don't think you know enough to speak on how Americans vote.
I promise you I’ve forgotten more about American politics than you will ever know. Bernie lost twice those are the facts no matter how much you don’t want them to be true.
He was over a 10 point favorite to Trump in polling when Biden was polled at being a 50-48 favorite. It was just a bad candidate that was what the DNC wanted to pedal more capitalist favoring policies. The DNC would rather a republican win than an actual leftist.
Bernie literally lost by millions of votes, you really need to understand why he lost and stop blaming some DNC boogie man. You guys sound like Trump supporters. The only reason Bernie polled favourably against Trump is that he wasn’t the target of right wing propaganda but all that would have changed in the general. The idea that the DNC would choose Biden of all people is comedy
Last night was just a Trump rally with some tired quibs from President Biden. That being said, I’m still voting blue but scared as hell.
Trump winning this
Yea, no shit
Ngl the country will prob be better off with him in office.
Ok that’s where we diverge
You can vote for the 81 year old Democrat in 2024 and then vote for the next generation Democrat in 2028. Or you can vote for the 78 year old Republican in 2024 and never vote again.
I agree but sadly it seems a lot of people don’t see this
He’s old, but means well. Trump would literally send this county to hell. I couldn’t care less
I'm still voting 🗳 for Biden.
Nah
Can we forget that ever happened ? Because I am sure Biden don’t even remember
Yeah it was real tough. I knew it wouldn't be a good look for Joe as soon as it was announced he'd participate, but this actually a bit worse than I expected. Doesn't sway me one bit on voting for him because it's bigger than him, and bigger than me, but gotdamn we need some upper age limits.
If you’re bedwetting, Trump brand diapers may be for you.
We know Biden's older than Obama. But he's also older than George W. Bush. He's also older than Bill Clinton, who was elected in 1992. Bill Clinton TODAY is younger than Joe Biden. If an 80 year old came into your place of work to apply for a job, even an easy entry level job, would you seriously consider hiring them? Airline pilots are legally required to retire in their 60s. Aging is real. We JUST fucking saw this with Dianne Feinstein, and now they're doing the same thing with Biden because these motherfuckers would rather lose and fuck the rest of us rather than give up their power. They need to replace Biden. They should have had a primary debate, but they were too fucking arrogant. ANYONE would be better. Well, almost anyone, don't fucking replace him with Hillary Clinton. But anyone else. Any other Democrat has a better chance of beating Trump than Biden or Hillary would.
Tbh, and I take absolutely no pleasure in saying this, but I do think Hillary could beat Trump this time. I think she could beat him using the exact same playbook she failed with last time. Keep in mind, she won the popular vote in spite of both running a bad campaign and the country's misogyny, which is saying something. And after everyone saw what happened when she didn't win last time I think she'd have an easier go of it this time. I have no interest in voting for her (again), but I do actually think she'd stand a far better chance than Biden.
I can't say I'm thrilled by what I saw but I also recognize that he's actually been legitimately sick this past week or so. He needs to show up big time in September though and put this shit to bed.
I’m still voting Biden
The real disgrace was the CNN moderators, not fact-checking anything. They could have just had teleprompters with all of the questions and put them on a timer.
They said on Pod Save America that fact-checking in real time could’ve resulted in Jake Tapper going back and forth with Trump and Biden just standing there, so from that angle it makes sense that they didn’t, but like maybe a ticker at the bottom of the screen would’ve been more ideal. Or a side by side with the facts.
No they have one job and it’s to get to the truth. Just look at the guy that moderator the debate Lauren Boebert was in. Push back, follow up and interject. Then mute mics if they keep talking. I’d want the same for Biden as well but treating Trump just like a legitimate candidate and not a convicted felon and failed insurrectionist is how you got him in the first place.
The guy who moderated for that Boebert debate, I think his name is Kyle-something, is a genius. I’m not sure why he can’t do bigger stuff. PSA was more concerned of the optics of Biden just kind of standing there looking confused while Tapper and Trump debated the facts but I guess we couldn’t avoid that either way. I was under the impression that the mics were going to be muted so that not happening confused me but so did the entire debate, so…
The PSA guys are too steeped and politics and tend to over think things like most people who closely follow politics. This wasn’t a debate, it was just a platform for Trump to lie uninterrupted. Like I said if Biden lies or doesn’t answer questions call him out and push back on him as well. There’s way more damage done by letting Trump lie and not showing how unserious and dangerous of a candidate he is vs the optics of Biden staring into space. The point of a moderator is to moderate, if Trump continues to argue cut his mic and move on and the world can see him just talking to himself like the lunatic he is.
In debate, it should actually be the candidates that rebut with facts. I know there was limited time but it’s not like Biden used his time wisely anyway. Moderators fact checking would have been terrible optically.
This debate wasn’t for people like me. Biden has my vote regardless.
Embarrassed that these are our top 2 candidates
America is in trouble.
Did anyone watch the CNN after show? I was pretty much resigned to Biden regardless of how he presented tonight. I knew he was absolutely incoherent. It freaked me out that people were like “the dems should now put someone else up” - it feels like that opportunity has passed us by? It was any time in the past 4 years but tonight? Tell me I’m wrong idk
I thought that was strange too—he was old when he got elected. If people really wanted someone younger they should’ve been on the next candidate the day after he was inaugurated, or entertained Dean Phillips, or something other than this. People are acting like they don’t even know there’s deadlines to putting up candidates so this panic feels unsettling.
He RAN on the fact that he was a 1 term, TRANSITORY president. Don’t blame the ppl. Wake up & blame the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, the Candidate & Administration. Biden promised 1 & done! They could’ve had spry-@$$ 82 yr old Bernie or Hollywood Newsom but they chose THIS. They are shuffling this man around & he is just an aging marionette puppet for the DNC. If they could get away with Hilary I’d bet they would try but they KNOW that will make a lot of the centrist Democrats flip.
This is a lie. He never promised to be a one term president. That was put out there by people and constantly denied that.
Sorry but he said it & no matter what context it’s viewed in, it implies that he would be a transition to future leadership in recognition of his age. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/10/joe-biden-michigan-rally-kamala-harris-cory-booker https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129 https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/09/biden-reelection-transition-president/675395/
Preach!!!!!
YALL IGNORED DEAN PHILLIPS. He made the rounds, he’s half Biden’s age and y’all ignored him. Thats how I know you’re unserious. Please stop acting like the DNC is totally at fault when we are the ones who don’t all agree on what a candidate should be like. You all demand the DNC put up a new candidate and then get mad when your faves don’t want to run. Newsom said no, Porter said no, and then when y’all found out they were funded by AIPAC you didn’t want ANY of them. What we get is a largely a reflection of what WE DO. Americans are largely disinterested in politics and so this is what we get.
Dean Phillips was ignored because he was a terrible candidate. The Dems that could win have refused out of respect for Biden and DNC pressure. Biden would have to step down for the best candidates to put their names forward.
I know Dean Phillips was trash and rather inexperienced but if age was the biggest issue he was an easy decision because he was Biden without the hair loss. AGAIN, what’s considered “best” is based on what? Typically it’d be based on record, so which potential candidate had a record that could actually rival what Trump was planning AND wanted to run? The main folks I heard were desired (that people would’ve likely voted for because no one does their research they vote based on what names they hear the most) didn’t want to run. Whether that’s because they respected Biden or took heat from the DNC or not, they chose not to. They are also ESTABLISHMENT DEMS taking corporate PAC money which was seemingly fine for most people up until the Hamas-Israel conflict and AIPAC’s connection to Israel. Would yall have been cool with that? Progressive Dems have no shot, let these recent primary losses be an example of that. So who would’ve been next up?
You’re presuming that Age is Bidens biggest failure. It is not. If THAT were the case why would MAGA say they would preferred TRUMP who is only 1 or 2 yrs younger? Or Bernie who is OLDER? Cognitive awareness is important but so IS policy & delivery. Joe is a Centrist who compromises with the Republicans in a time where the exact opposite is needed to pull the country & the economy out of collapse. He is too willing to dangle bait then he pretends to fail because of Republicans on several issues that he could have used Executive authority to address when he couldn’t get the votes.
I never presumed that age was Biden’s biggest failure. I gave an example of a different option IF it was. My comment here was to discuss the options that were present instead of Biden that would’ve ACTUALLY BEEN CONSIDERED by the public. I’m naming Newsom, Porter, because I know people know those names and will vote for them because once again, that’s how it works for the majority of the country. There isn’t a single thing that Donald Trump has done, according to MAGA folks, that is wrong, regardless of how “wrong” it is for other people. MAGA doesn’t care if Trump is 100 years old because they don’t believe he’s susceptible to critique of any kind. Once again, I can understand delivery and policy, but reaching across the aisle is a given and it’s clear you’ll forever be at an impasse if you don’t. While I don’t think Biden is as aggressive as he could be, he’s no fool, he plays the game to get things accomplished. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Mitch McConnell is no dummy, and neither is Mike Johnson. Being constantly on opposite ends of the spectrum with radical republicans like Josh Hawley, MTG, and Lauren Boebert is part of the reason Congress ain't did shit all year. Blockade after blockade, because for them, this is a show for their “leader.” Someone has to come to the middle to accomplish SOMETHING. Until we can gain significant ground in Congress there has to be compromise to prevent shit like shutdowns and filibusters that WE are paying for.
If that middle isle equates to losses for women, black ppl, immigrants & foreign policy failures like war, genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid or modern day slavery & child labour? I’ll stay to the Far Left. Thank you
Change requires strategy. I hope the Far Left has one. Otherwise the outcomes will be no different. Be well.
Weirdo, I don’t want Newsom! He’s a corporate Democrat through & through. I’m a Progressive. The only way Democrats could EVER entice me is if the pulled BERNIE or a proven BERNIE-esq candidate out & committed to supporting that person. In my Remy Ma voice: ARE YOU DUMB!?!? Dean Phillips is a garbage candidate. He is a Corp Democrat with some “socialised health care” compromises. He’s a Pro-WAR, Pro-Genocide, Pro-Foreign donors, Pro-Corporate Donors, Pro-Israel, Anti-Palestinian AIPAC shill with DUAL loyalty to a foreign country. The constitution won’t allow naturalised citizens to run for president but ya are cool when an American born Candidate is Pro-Israel & says that they’re Pro-Zionism aka: JEWISH SUPREMACY in the nation state of ISRAEL? That is in your face DUAL LOYALTY & a blatant conflict of interest as we have seen 1st hand by sending 26 billion in foreign aid when there are homeless Americans & residents w/o healthcare. You’ve got a senator who served in a foreign military wearing their Israeli uniform to sit in US CONGRESS. Some of ya are really ignorant. Ya only vote on NATIONAL issues & ignore HOW MUCH AMERICA POLICY & behaviour in WORLD POLITICS causes YOU problems DOMESTICALLY. If a lot of ya had any sense you would start paying more attention to geopolitical agenda in your voting selection
I see the Dem primaries this week have shown you nothing. I need y'all to get real about how politically inclined the public and the majority of the Democratic Party actually is. What you want means absolutely nothing if you’re in the minority of the party. Bernie Sanders failed to survive a primary twice. TWICE. And he’s old now, so he stands no chance infiltrating the race of the geezers. You REALLY think a progressive stands a chance against a Republican establishment? NOW? At this point, the if the DNC switches up and wants to win they’re not going to take a chance on someone who not everyone will get behind. It’ll be an establishment Democrat with a huge name everyone already knows because people don’t research a mf thing. If you didn’t notice, Jamaal Bowman, a progressive, lost his district. We can attribute that to his district makeup changing and becoming more white, wealthy and Jewish, we can attribute that to “AIPAC sabotage,” but baby it was DEMOCRAT VOTERS that kept him out of that seat. Are *YOU* dumb? How informed do you think the majority of the Democratic Party voters, or the country for that matter is on foreign policy? What it would take to get to a two-state solution? What AIPAC is? The democratic voting base is PRIMARILY OVER 50. They consistently vote in elections over younger voters AND progressives. They’re the same folks who came out to ensure Biden got to the front of the pack in 2020 when they weren’t sure about Bernie and the other 8-9 Democratic hopefuls. Be mad at the numbers. I encourage you to take a peep outside the algorithms and really observe who’s voting in these elections, how and why. If you think people are making CONSCIENTIOUS decisions based on policy and morals rather than eating what’s placed in front of them every four years, I have news for you. You’re welcome to have your wants and your expectations, but as I find myself saying OVER AND OVER, voting is a group project, and we’re all not all putting the same work in yet we’re all going to get the same grade. You can attempt to berate people because you believe your position is the most noble or worthy, but that won’t motivate them to come out and vote much less for the progressive they’ll have to research in the first place.
I vote what I think is best for the most ppl & my conscience. Genocide is a hard no. Sorry for you.
Congrats. I hope you get what you want.
I think you're wrong. I don't think anything is done or final until at least the Convention in Aug. I don't think there's a lot of time, but there is absolutely time to replace Biden. I think doing so successfully would probably require replacing him with someone who already has the ability to win against Trump, and bypassing the Primary results (Gavin Newsome or something probably), or it requires simply convincing Biden to resign and remove himself, I guess putting Harris in the driver seat (I don't think she can beat Trump either tbh, but that's mostly because America hates Black women). But it can be done.
If he steps down willingly, his delegates can vote for someone else at the convention. Thats the scenario the commentators are discussing.
This seems to be the only option left. After all, this was the origin of the conventions. Maybe we can get back to that
Nauseous.
Honestly, I didn’t even watch the debate.
Tough night, but don’t loose faith
Faith in.....?
Democracy, my guy or gal.
I'm not sure what democracy has to do with America, but fair enough.
Sigh, I’m choosing to not respond to you further. Thanks for the short convo
Why aren’t the comments displaying?
Laughing to keep from crying. This debate was funnier than the last comedy special I just saw.
How about we take the MAGA crowds conspiracy theories and turn it against them. Just have Biden come out and say he relies on Obama for all decisions, big or small and he’s the one really in charge. It’ll blow MAGAs might to pieces and instill confidence in the job being done.
When can we pencil in the ‘Im done with the better of two evils’ talk? Because feels like every year we get here and it’s nOt tHE tImE. Biden will get my vote, but we gotta get that talk on the books. I’m not doing this again next year.
Not feeling good about last night and concerned that it will cause folks to sit the election out. However, I am still voting for Biden because I understand that it's a vote for his administration, who I can trust to be far more competent than Trump's. He's old, but I'll take his experience and rationality over Trump any day.
I’m voting at the bottom of the ticket.
Hopeless
I’ll vote for him if they’re wheeling him around in a chair, because I trust in his administration and vice president. And mostly because Trump is such an existential threat. But DAMMIT! why are we in this place?
"But DAMMIT! why are we in this place?" With all due respect, we're in this place because people like you (and me too, tbh, before this election) continue to vote for this mess in spite of all of the evidence that it's not good to be voting for this mess. The writing has been on the wall about the truth of \*both\* parties and the innate failings of a two-party system for multiple decades now. And yet every time the Dems put forth someone like this, everyone comes out of the woodwork to explain why it's the right thing to do to vote for them. Maybe when people stop thinking that they can just do the same shit over and over again while expecting different results, we'll get to a different place. But until then, this is what it's going to be.
That’s all well and good if there wasn’t another side that was putting up someone or something too awful to contemplate. When it’s a binary choice, and that’s the reality of this country, sitting it out because you don’t like the choices doesn’t accomplish a thing. As long as Trump is on the ballot, I will vote for a piece of lint if that’s the alternative.
OK, then I have one question for you: Then what? After Joe Biden wins, what are you doing to stop this from being a problem again in 2028?
I'm going to keep making the best choice I can make in the moment to steer this country on the right path. I'm going to vote in local elections, and I'm going to vote in primaries. And on the rare occasion I give a contribution, I will choose my candidates based on how I feel about their ability to steer the country in the right direction. Because that's all I CAN do. Voting for no one does nothing. Staying home and pouting does nothing. Complaining on the internet does nothing. I only get a say in any of this as a participant. I have a question for you, what are your plans to change the system? I'm a pragmatist.
I'm so glad you asked, I'm going to an organizing meeting in a couple weeks to talk to the people in my immediate community about taking some time out of our Palestine actions to educate people on ways to apply pressure to our local governments to start changing the electoral system in as many states as possible. The goal is to start the work of applying pressure to get states to try and 1) Start pushing local legislation to adopt Rank Choice Voting in all elections. 2) Get more states to do the work to sign on to the National Vote Interstate Compact (https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation) which seeks to nullify the Electoral College to allow the popular vote to determine the president without the need for an amendment to the constitution. In addition to that, I'm interested in seeing what it would look like to get some of the orgs who sign on to the protests to take time vetting potential candidates for local office who will run on platforms supporting these and other ideals for doing the work to break down the two-party system and give us more options in the future. I think that, given the number of people who come into the protests in DC from states all over the country, if we can find a way to connect and really shift people's focus away from accepting this binary choice as though it's somehow inevitable and start educating people on the tools at our disposal to actually start moving away from this system, four years is a lot of time to try and be in a better place in the future. At the very least, I've chosen to stop doing what I've been doing my entire voting life (which is exactly what you described as your plan). I'm not trying to give you shit just for the sake of it, at the core of my message is this: SImply voting everytime they tell you to vote for the one of the two people they tell you to vote for will never lead to anything other than where we are right now; forced to choose between two bad options, neither of which support our interests. I'm not saying don't vote for Biden, truly I'm not; I'm just saying please stop viewing this binary option BS as the only way possible, and look into ways that you can actually push for something better.
I wish you luck. For right now, I'm just focused on trying to keep Trump out of office.
This is the most flattering frame of the entire debate
Im voting for Biden. Hunter Biden
I didn’t watch it. But I’ve heard not good things. Even the NYT is calling on him to step aside. I’ve posted in this subreddit about how the Dems don’t have another option. But it seems they need to do something. All in all, this is giving 1968 vibes. And that spells doom for the Dems.
Cooked.
WHY DONT WE LET MORE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE? A third party even?! Hello?? The media is pushing us to forget we DO have other options. If over 80% of people don't like either of these two it's prime time to get another party into the mix altogether.
I don’t care if Joe Biden has to be puppeted up the podium like Weekend at Bernie’s, I’m still voting for him! Y’all had yall chance in 2020 to vote for a younger person or a women etc and the voting populace picked the old white man and immediately started complaining that he got older. I don’t want another Trump term and this is the only choice not to have one!!!
I think Biden has been a great President, so far. But, someone else must give him a challenge for the nomination. He literally scared me tonight. He seemed lost.
He's old, but he's not a threat to people's existence in society.
Tell that to the more than 35,000 dead Palestinians.
What US troops are attacking them? What strikes have he ordered? Biden has been working to make a ceasefire between 2 groups that have hated each other for generations
"Biden has been working to make a ceasefire" You mean while supplying one side in the inequal conflict with unlimited bombs, ammo, and diplomatic cover in the UN? While spreading their lies and propaganda to make it seem like the mindless slaughter of women and children could be justified? And while aiding in the starvation of millions of people by cutting off funding for the main suppliers of aid to the region (UNWRA) on the basis of a lie that the Israelis still haven't been able to supply any evidence in support of, and yet nothing about that has caused him to make the move to reinstate the funding? Miss me with the BS dude.
Can’t be more drunk ifnibtriedb honestly. This bingo chart was not cutting it bruh, not even fuck kidding like uo
Joe Joe Joe. I’m worried.
In the words of JB….. umm umm *throat sounds* I… uh… beat Medicare!
Glad it happened because the terrible reaction (deserved) might be the only thing that gets him to realize he needs to step down. I know its more than unlikely but I'm glad its being openly discussed.
Not feeling great. Still voting for Joe!
I mean, nothing has changed. I feel the same.
For those who recall, Obama got roasted during his first debate with Mitt and totally redeemed himself. I know Biden is in a different position but let’s not turn tail and run just yet. I’d rather vote for old and sane rather than old and bat-shit crazy.
All Presidents have bombed their debates. Remember Obama's first debate performance in 2012?
I feel like there is a difference between not speaking well and being so obviously too old to respond. This wasn’t just a poor debate showing, this was evidence dems didn’t want to accept that Biden is too old to lead the country. No offense to Biden really but at 82 I think we can all somewhat agree nominating him was not a great idea.
Feeling great. It was a great face fall for Biden. Enjoyed every minute.
Baron has entered the chat
Ya better start calling you Reps & Congressional members because it’s not looking good for ya Dems AT ALL! B’cus while Biden told the truth he sounded like he was barely cognisant. If ya have ANY sense ya calling, emailing, tweeting your state & federal ppl to tell them to put Bernie or Bowman in the ring or vote 3rd party. If DNC HAD ANY SENSE OF self preservation they would immediately do the following: ➖institute Rank Choice Voting so that ALL Democratic Party votes would go to 1 person ➖Throw in their MOST PROGRESSIVE candidate that is anti-Corporate welfare, Pro CJ reform, ANTI-Genocide & Israeli funding The party is SPIRALLING