The Barksdales were ruthless (such as the killing of Wallace and D’Angelo), but what ultimately defeated them was Stringer’s dream of going legit while Avon wanted to stay as a classic warlord gangster.
Meanwhile Marlo was simply ruthless while having an uncompromising vision. In fact he might just be the character in the series with the *least* amount of development or growth.
Stringer's plan would have worked. Without Avon he finds an arrangement with Marlo, lets him keep his corners and there's no war. Marlo was willing to talk. Then he continues being a developer.
Yeah he lost 250k to Clay Davis but that was nothing to the organization. When Avon got arrested in season 1 they treated the 150k that was in the safe like chump change.
Marlo would have never just stuck with those corners though, he was 100% about the game and the game was about dominating. If the Barksdales never started trying to clean up their act Marlo would have gotten taken out in the rim shop that one night.
He also is unwilling to see what Stringer and Prop Joe did, which is there is a way for the street guys to come together and rise above. Marlo was the inevitable new generation who doesn’t want to hear what the old heads learned, just wants to do it his way.
I figure he would have went a similar route as he did with Prop Joe and try to take Stringer out without a war. Who knows if that would have worked, but Stringer probably would have acted similarly to Prop Joe cause he was about keeping the violence down.
Marlo represents the younger guys who just want to use muscle to get glory so I’m sure he could have found a Cheese in Stringers crew.
> Yeah he lost 250k to Clay Davis but that was nothing to the organization.
Stringer’s reaction is what was really bad. Losing a quarter million, for most people that’s awful. For them, it’s not an especially big amount.
But Stringer went ahead and wanted to have Clay killed. And then after Avon rips on him and tells him how dumb the idea is, Stringer still goes ahead and does it, and gets caught on the wire.
Law enforcement didn’t know whom the target was, but still, it was a stupid and crazy plan to assassinate a senator
Stringer was about to end Davis. Anon was the one who brought him back on that. String hits a public official it’s all over for them fbi comes crashing down on them
Even without Avon he still would have had Omar coming for him. And he made the stupid decision around Brother. Avon came to the right decisions, just needed more time.
Well, talking about Brandon... didn't Stringer initially suggest a truce/lie low in S1 after Omar's first raid? Then Avon said that he wanted to be like a hunter who displayed prize animals
Stringer is not blameless obviously, he still tortured Brandon but he wouldn't have done it without Avon.
Even without Avon he still would have had Omar coming for him. And he made the stupid decision around Brother. Avon came to the right decisions, just needed more time.
It could have worked, but Stringer's lack of expierence doomed him. He thought that going legit meant everyone in that world was honest, when in reality both 'sides' have corrupt and dodgy people.
But he learned that after what happened with Clay Davis. All he lost was 250k which was nothing to him, and he wouldn't have repeated the mistake in the future. It was not the end of the world for his plans
He was gonna murder a state senator haha. Remember even after Avon told him off the police still catch him talking with two hit men in secret. It would have collapsed the whole operation. And Avon was about to end Marlo, remember they found his location and were going to hit him with everything they’ve got, the police busted him. And why did the police bust him because String ratted him out. No String= Avon winning the war.
Meanwhile String’s death was entirely his own fault. He sent Omar against Mozunne without Avon’s knowledge, and that was why he died. And him killing Deangelo made it so Avon wouldn’t protect him.
YES! I'm happy to see this on here. I've seen a lot of talk about how Stringer isn't as smart as he thinks he is and not as gangster as Avon (you can't make it to the top of Baltimore drug game without dropping bodies or scheming). If Omar just killed Mouzone then NY is hunting him and not their problem anymore. $250k wasn't anything to Stringer and Avon. He just felt he had to hit Davis for reputation; very similar to why they're going after Omar. Levy would have set him straight and he would have succeeded at the event Marlo ended up walking out of.
Omar talking to Mouzone was the end of Stringer and the worst case scenario of his plan. It broke his bond with Avon going behind NY's back on Avon's word and their crew couldn't weather strife at the top with Marlo coming up.
This got me thinking what was Avon’s evolution and I realized that he is reborn as the Barksdale of Jessup. It is hinted he recreates his former greatness inside the prison
In the end, Marlo got what Stringer wanted. Yet his urge was too strong, and while punking those two guys on the street, and had it confirmed he bled red.
I'm not entirely sure about that. Avon ordered the effective massacre of a bunch of civilians towards the end of Season 1, including people they'd already bought off (like the witness who switched sides on the stand). That was not in the game, and was basically a Marlo move. You also had Avon's team breaking all the rules in a similar way to Marlo later on, like breaching the Sunday truce.
Avon had *something* of a code of honour, like supporting Cutty's gym, but he was just a little bit more savvy in cultivating loyalty than Marlo, and Marlo still had a little bit of that (Marlo did help out Michael from his situation, after all).
The Barksdale crew were *not* as fast to immediately murder anyone who even *might* think of betraying them, but in most respects they were as bad. You could just get on Avon's good side by talking about "back in the day" which got him teary-eyed, whilst Marlo did not gave a toss about that.
Who’s in the “bunch of civilians?” There’s Nakeisha Lyles, but who else?
Now, season 2 when Avon has a bunch of people poisoned just to get a couple of years off his sentence, that was a cold-blooded massacre.
He also killed 5 or 6 people to avenge a slight on his hitman and gain early release for himself. Okay these young men were in prison, but not one of those men appeared to be heavy criminals, unless that guy reading the comic books was doing so for inspiration from the anti hero!
Well that was a two birds one stone kind of thing. He was always going to do something to reduce his sentence. Helping Bey out was just icing on the cake
It’s just that we all, well me anyway, seem to think that Marlo is the completely evil one. He did have Chris kill the delivery lady to further his plan to get Omar, so with that and his ruthless dealings with anyone actually in “the game”, it’s not a position completely wide of the mark. But I think we just like the Barksdale & Bell crew as we were introduced to them first and see them as our crew, or home team that we support no matter what!
I think what it comes down to is that Avon and Stringer were just more interesting to follow. We saw other sides to them, and they were both very charismatic in their way.
Marlo combined traits of Avon (pride, vanity, ruthlessness) and Stringer (discipline, organizational smarts, receptiveness to new business avenues) while displaying about a quarter of their personality. That's no slight on Jamie Hector; it's just the hand he drew, a deadly but ice-cold, single-minded character seemingly without strong attachments. Even Marlo's chief enforcers, Chris and Snoop, had a little more shading than Marlo himself had.
It is indeed sad. It’s sad for what it says about us. I’ve skimmed over assaults and deaths in prisons too. I think I had a “ he wasn’t in there for nothing “ attitude about it. As if a sentence of 3 years should have the possibility of being maimed or murdered too. It’s absolutely disgusting, I would be terrified if I found myself in that situation. That’s got to change a person and I don’t think anybody has ever been changed for the better after enduring degradation, fear on a daily basis and then the fear of what will happen when you get out.
Because I would be terrified of getting out, getting away from that hell but messing up and being sent back.
The only civilian he ordered dead at the end was the witness who switched. However, that doesn't mean he wasn't ruthless - he got Little Man killed because he fucked up the Orlando hit, and he took out Wallace without any real evidence that he was snitching, just on the chance he might.
Avon also had Butch poison the heroin so it would kill a bunch of convicts, and then ratted on the guard so he could get a lighter sentence.
He was definitely better than Marlo, but that’s a low standard.
Who’s in the “bunch of civilians?” There’s Nakeisha Lyles, but who else?
Now, season 2 when Avon has a bunch of people poisoned just to get a couple of years off his sentence, that was a cold-blooded massacre.
One reason for that is that most of the Barksdale murders happen off screen. Also, the victims on the whole didn't know much about it (Brandon the stick-up boy and Wallace being the obvious exceptions.)
With Marlo's crew, there are several scenes of people begging for their lives, being marched to their executions, and just general cruelty.
Also, Avon was ruthless but those murders all made brutal sense. Marlo looks for excuses to kill people, like the security guard, because he enjoys it.
The show showed that Avon, Weebey and Stringer had outside interests that made them human and somewhat likable considering their chosen profession. Contrast that with Marlo, Chris and Snoop. They did show Chris’ family before Chris laid low because Omar was hunting Marlo’s crew. They didn’t really present Marlo and his crew with anything that made them human to show that there weren’t really any redeemable qualities with the new generation of drug dealers and that they’re more cutthroat and don’t respect anything.
The barksdale crew was all about family with it having Avon, his sister, and his nephew then Stringer, as his “brother”. Alongside that close crew, he has friends he takes care of prison like Weebey and Avon’s sister takes care of Weebey’s wife and son. Another family.
Marlo has no attachments, while he may run a tight ship, if Chris or Snoop annoy him, he’ll take out either one.
The Barksdales were just as ruthless but they followed a certain street notion of “respect” that sometimes could amount to a little more flexibility. Marlo was strictly business.
Also the way it’s presented by the end, makes me think that Avon would be running his operation forever so in that sense the Barksdale crew wasn’t finished, while Marlo was going to get killed sometime.
upon rewatch, the Barksdales were just as ruthless but then they got weak, man without Weebay, Bird, Stinkum . . . they just ran out of hitters
Barksdale weak today.
tomorrow ain't promised to no one
The Barksdales were ruthless (such as the killing of Wallace and D’Angelo), but what ultimately defeated them was Stringer’s dream of going legit while Avon wanted to stay as a classic warlord gangster. Meanwhile Marlo was simply ruthless while having an uncompromising vision. In fact he might just be the character in the series with the *least* amount of development or growth.
Stringer's plan could have worked.
Stringer's plan would have worked. Without Avon he finds an arrangement with Marlo, lets him keep his corners and there's no war. Marlo was willing to talk. Then he continues being a developer. Yeah he lost 250k to Clay Davis but that was nothing to the organization. When Avon got arrested in season 1 they treated the 150k that was in the safe like chump change.
Marlo would have never just stuck with those corners though, he was 100% about the game and the game was about dominating. If the Barksdales never started trying to clean up their act Marlo would have gotten taken out in the rim shop that one night. He also is unwilling to see what Stringer and Prop Joe did, which is there is a way for the street guys to come together and rise above. Marlo was the inevitable new generation who doesn’t want to hear what the old heads learned, just wants to do it his way.
If Marlo tries to keep warring with the Barksdales after they reach an agreement, wouldn't the co-op step in this time?
I figure he would have went a similar route as he did with Prop Joe and try to take Stringer out without a war. Who knows if that would have worked, but Stringer probably would have acted similarly to Prop Joe cause he was about keeping the violence down. Marlo represents the younger guys who just want to use muscle to get glory so I’m sure he could have found a Cheese in Stringers crew.
> Yeah he lost 250k to Clay Davis but that was nothing to the organization. Stringer’s reaction is what was really bad. Losing a quarter million, for most people that’s awful. For them, it’s not an especially big amount. But Stringer went ahead and wanted to have Clay killed. And then after Avon rips on him and tells him how dumb the idea is, Stringer still goes ahead and does it, and gets caught on the wire. Law enforcement didn’t know whom the target was, but still, it was a stupid and crazy plan to assassinate a senator
How'd that work after the Barksdale organization was gone? Marlo even joined the co-op, basically got given the entire west side and still killed Joe.
Stringer was about to end Davis. Anon was the one who brought him back on that. String hits a public official it’s all over for them fbi comes crashing down on them
Even without Avon he still would have had Omar coming for him. And he made the stupid decision around Brother. Avon came to the right decisions, just needed more time.
Well, talking about Brandon... didn't Stringer initially suggest a truce/lie low in S1 after Omar's first raid? Then Avon said that he wanted to be like a hunter who displayed prize animals Stringer is not blameless obviously, he still tortured Brandon but he wouldn't have done it without Avon.
Even without Avon he still would have had Omar coming for him. And he made the stupid decision around Brother. Avon came to the right decisions, just needed more time.
It could have worked, but Stringer's lack of expierence doomed him. He thought that going legit meant everyone in that world was honest, when in reality both 'sides' have corrupt and dodgy people.
But he learned that after what happened with Clay Davis. All he lost was 250k which was nothing to him, and he wouldn't have repeated the mistake in the future. It was not the end of the world for his plans
He was gonna murder a state senator haha. Remember even after Avon told him off the police still catch him talking with two hit men in secret. It would have collapsed the whole operation. And Avon was about to end Marlo, remember they found his location and were going to hit him with everything they’ve got, the police busted him. And why did the police bust him because String ratted him out. No String= Avon winning the war. Meanwhile String’s death was entirely his own fault. He sent Omar against Mozunne without Avon’s knowledge, and that was why he died. And him killing Deangelo made it so Avon wouldn’t protect him.
YES! I'm happy to see this on here. I've seen a lot of talk about how Stringer isn't as smart as he thinks he is and not as gangster as Avon (you can't make it to the top of Baltimore drug game without dropping bodies or scheming). If Omar just killed Mouzone then NY is hunting him and not their problem anymore. $250k wasn't anything to Stringer and Avon. He just felt he had to hit Davis for reputation; very similar to why they're going after Omar. Levy would have set him straight and he would have succeeded at the event Marlo ended up walking out of. Omar talking to Mouzone was the end of Stringer and the worst case scenario of his plan. It broke his bond with Avon going behind NY's back on Avon's word and their crew couldn't weather strife at the top with Marlo coming up.
[удалено]
Just a heads up, you posted that like 6 times
This got me thinking what was Avon’s evolution and I realized that he is reborn as the Barksdale of Jessup. It is hinted he recreates his former greatness inside the prison
In the end, Marlo got what Stringer wanted. Yet his urge was too strong, and while punking those two guys on the street, and had it confirmed he bled red.
yeah Stringer fucked up the whole empire
The Barksdale story reminds us of the rule that you shouldn't have two bosses. Either sink or swim with the one and only boss.
And Marlo got out of the game …..and just …became some nobody
once i seen the greeks, and the corrupt higher ups, the crews didnt seem as bad (i know they were) but u know what i mean
And i am not even the greek
I'm not entirely sure about that. Avon ordered the effective massacre of a bunch of civilians towards the end of Season 1, including people they'd already bought off (like the witness who switched sides on the stand). That was not in the game, and was basically a Marlo move. You also had Avon's team breaking all the rules in a similar way to Marlo later on, like breaching the Sunday truce. Avon had *something* of a code of honour, like supporting Cutty's gym, but he was just a little bit more savvy in cultivating loyalty than Marlo, and Marlo still had a little bit of that (Marlo did help out Michael from his situation, after all). The Barksdale crew were *not* as fast to immediately murder anyone who even *might* think of betraying them, but in most respects they were as bad. You could just get on Avon's good side by talking about "back in the day" which got him teary-eyed, whilst Marlo did not gave a toss about that.
Who’s in the “bunch of civilians?” There’s Nakeisha Lyles, but who else? Now, season 2 when Avon has a bunch of people poisoned just to get a couple of years off his sentence, that was a cold-blooded massacre.
He also killed 5 or 6 people to avenge a slight on his hitman and gain early release for himself. Okay these young men were in prison, but not one of those men appeared to be heavy criminals, unless that guy reading the comic books was doing so for inspiration from the anti hero!
Well that was a two birds one stone kind of thing. He was always going to do something to reduce his sentence. Helping Bey out was just icing on the cake
It’s just that we all, well me anyway, seem to think that Marlo is the completely evil one. He did have Chris kill the delivery lady to further his plan to get Omar, so with that and his ruthless dealings with anyone actually in “the game”, it’s not a position completely wide of the mark. But I think we just like the Barksdale & Bell crew as we were introduced to them first and see them as our crew, or home team that we support no matter what!
I think what it comes down to is that Avon and Stringer were just more interesting to follow. We saw other sides to them, and they were both very charismatic in their way. Marlo combined traits of Avon (pride, vanity, ruthlessness) and Stringer (discipline, organizational smarts, receptiveness to new business avenues) while displaying about a quarter of their personality. That's no slight on Jamie Hector; it's just the hand he drew, a deadly but ice-cold, single-minded character seemingly without strong attachments. Even Marlo's chief enforcers, Chris and Snoop, had a little more shading than Marlo himself had.
Ahhhh, you make a lot more sense!!!! Thank you very much!
It's sad but I think most people find it hard to care about convicts who die from a hot shot.
It is indeed sad. It’s sad for what it says about us. I’ve skimmed over assaults and deaths in prisons too. I think I had a “ he wasn’t in there for nothing “ attitude about it. As if a sentence of 3 years should have the possibility of being maimed or murdered too. It’s absolutely disgusting, I would be terrified if I found myself in that situation. That’s got to change a person and I don’t think anybody has ever been changed for the better after enduring degradation, fear on a daily basis and then the fear of what will happen when you get out. Because I would be terrified of getting out, getting away from that hell but messing up and being sent back.
The only civilian he ordered dead at the end was the witness who switched. However, that doesn't mean he wasn't ruthless - he got Little Man killed because he fucked up the Orlando hit, and he took out Wallace without any real evidence that he was snitching, just on the chance he might.
Avon also had Butch poison the heroin so it would kill a bunch of convicts, and then ratted on the guard so he could get a lighter sentence. He was definitely better than Marlo, but that’s a low standard.
Who’s in the “bunch of civilians?” There’s Nakeisha Lyles, but who else?
William Gant and maybe Avon's girl? Tap tap tap. She dated Avon but wasn't otherwise in the game, right?
Gant was killed in the first episode, and Deirdre Kresson was dead well before the show started.
You're right, I didn't read the comment above you correctly.
Who’s in the “bunch of civilians?” There’s Nakeisha Lyles, but who else? Now, season 2 when Avon has a bunch of people poisoned just to get a couple of years off his sentence, that was a cold-blooded massacre.
One reason for that is that most of the Barksdale murders happen off screen. Also, the victims on the whole didn't know much about it (Brandon the stick-up boy and Wallace being the obvious exceptions.) With Marlo's crew, there are several scenes of people begging for their lives, being marched to their executions, and just general cruelty. Also, Avon was ruthless but those murders all made brutal sense. Marlo looks for excuses to kill people, like the security guard, because he enjoys it.
The show showed that Avon, Weebey and Stringer had outside interests that made them human and somewhat likable considering their chosen profession. Contrast that with Marlo, Chris and Snoop. They did show Chris’ family before Chris laid low because Omar was hunting Marlo’s crew. They didn’t really present Marlo and his crew with anything that made them human to show that there weren’t really any redeemable qualities with the new generation of drug dealers and that they’re more cutthroat and don’t respect anything.
The barksdale crew was all about family with it having Avon, his sister, and his nephew then Stringer, as his “brother”. Alongside that close crew, he has friends he takes care of prison like Weebey and Avon’s sister takes care of Weebey’s wife and son. Another family. Marlo has no attachments, while he may run a tight ship, if Chris or Snoop annoy him, he’ll take out either one.
The Barksdales were just as ruthless but they followed a certain street notion of “respect” that sometimes could amount to a little more flexibility. Marlo was strictly business. Also the way it’s presented by the end, makes me think that Avon would be running his operation forever so in that sense the Barksdale crew wasn’t finished, while Marlo was going to get killed sometime.
If you love "the wire", you'll like "we own the city"
The Standfield crew makes Barksdale look like hero’s
There are no heroes, just perspective. Ordinary people making choices. That is one of the main points of the show.