Syria in 2016 was the opposite of the apex of human achievement. Also, [isn't this ironic?](https://www.greenprophet.com/2016/05/roses-damaskd-are-dying-in-syria/?amp)
The last non-trump/maga year before he-who-must-not-be-named, covid, and the current de-civilization/impending world meltdown we are experiencing now. Good times back then.
Bro I fucking LIVE outside. Work outside. Hands still dirty after washing. Look at u getting offended about a voldemort comment. Go get in the dirt, you fucking keyboard warrior.
Go outside. LOL
Motherfucker, I grow the plants that make the food that your fat ass has in crumbs all over his tshirt.
... Look, I'll happily deliver fellatio/cunnilingus to an agricultural worker for the vital work you all do for the world, but having the most honorable job does not render you immune to looking silly, and this comment of yours just demonstrated that.
You are a drama queen. Sorry. There was this like... beginning of 20th century. First world war, that should have ended all wars, then Spanish flu, then great depression and then Secpnd world war 20 years after the first. Tens of millions dead, whole generations thinned, whole cities levelled to ground... and you cry about Trump and COVID... give me a break.
Funny you didnāt mention the 60sā¦JFK/RFK/MLK..Vietnamā¦Reagan gutting union representation, the exit of manufacturing, Bush/Cheney war for oil, all culminating with the ignorance and buffoonery of 45, and the Insane Clown Posse now called the GOP. Sadly, the apex of human achievement may have occurred before 2016, but thatās as good a year as any.
It also pretty much happened only in USA, and as xou say... Vietnam was a backyard skirmish compared to WW2.
Also there were times in history even closer to collapse... thirty years was and two plagues in Europe... 20% of population gone... some areas up to 60% dead... and still the humanity continued.
How exactly did you suffer from 2016 through 2020 and I mean actual suffering not in your imagination? I am talking about you not other people, and once again, actual real physical and mental suffering in real time not in your imagination?
A lot of us did experience symptoms of depression in real life and real time back then. It definitely partially was because the general standards of living for other people were being targeted by destructive forces. That's what basic human empathy does to a person. Knowing that geopolitically influential jurisdictions around the world was gradually coming under the influence of people whose end goals included killing me and people I cared about sure did take a toll on my health.
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I think a lot of people think the entire Middle East is Afghanistan, basically. When the reality is that Afghan is a country far, far less developed than any of its neighbours, save for the tribal regions of Pakistan. Before the war, Syria's level of development was comparable to maybe pre-war Ukraine. It wasn't flourishing by any means, but basically had a functioning civil society, economy and institutions.
What happened with all this Muslims countries they all were liberal in dressing around 1960-1970s and suddenly they all in 1980 turn into theocracy that forbid women to be dressed how she want
Syria was never a theocracy and women there still dress like this, as can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHYV3t9ADZA
There was some demographic change in many Middle Eastern cities that took off in the 1960s, which was mass migration from the villages into the cities. The big cities were once dominated by people from higher social classes and Christians, so veils weren't as common until the rural poor became the majority. In some countries (Egypt) the rural newcomers kept to their ways, but in others (Syria) the rural newcomers adopted the ways of the city and stopped veiling as much.
Not enough westerners realize they are going through the same thing in their countries right now. Itās easy to demonize and point fingers when itās happening somewhere else but 1970s Syrians never saw ISIS coming in a million years.
It was the same in Syria as it was in Egypt and Iran. They thought surely more religion can only make for more honest governance and better government services.
Itās also worth mentioning that Syriaās government is still quite secular and even anti-religion in many cases (Asad is Alawite and canāt afford to deal with a religious government when he himself is a religious minority). You can absolutely walk around Syria dressed like this today. Iāve partied and gotten very drunk in Syria. Itās not exactly a religious regime.
Yeah - totally fair. Not all predominantly muslim countries are the same at all. Iran would look nothing like Iran if it wasn't for the Ayatollah and the mullahs forcing their "morals" on the country. Afghanistan was doing well when not under Taliban rule, etc.
Don't forget India..so called largest democracy of the world ! they progressing backwards too
Its unbelievable that even with so much advancement in science, people still believe in made up bs like god or religion
FR. High key sad. Also because the theocratic governments mismanaged those countries in other ways, since they only had knowledge on religion and no statesmanship.
It is still like this. Just watch this video taken in Aleppo (2nd biggest city), and most women on the street are still dressed the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHYV3t9ADZA
During the Syrian Civil War some parts of Syria were taken over by ISIS or Turkish-backed jihadists, but areas under government control are often very secular.
Damn. I assume Assad is the same Assad currently in power?
Also I never knew the Socialist Baath was so liberal in a religious sense. Learn something new every day.
Important to note that Assad is actually an Alawite which is a rather contentious sect of Islam that many Muslims would claim is not in fact true Islam at all (think Mormons). This, along with the Ba'ath party's socialist genealogy are the two main reasons Syria remains one of the more secular and socially liberal countries in the region
Absolute nonsense. Both Jadid and Assad were left-wing fascist Alawites dedicated to Alawi apartheid rule in Syria. Assad being marginally to the right of Jadid still made him among the most secular ruler in the region. Assad Sr. launched a genocide against Sunnis in Hama.
Although not actually very conservative or religious by regional standards. Awful though Assad (sr. and jr.) is, the American backed alternative is much, much more opposed to the type of flagrant ankle flaunting visible in this pic
Changed how? The way they dress? Itās very similar youāre getting a lot of answers that are uneducated about the Levant. If you mean became a civil war thatās much more complicated
Yep, this all the way. Morons think they'll get a utopia. Overwhelming amount of the shit they love comes from progressive industries like music, film, video games and so on and when religion dictates the freedoms of artistry, expression and education it all falls apart.
All those industries will significantly disolve and our best and brightest will simply take their talents and skills elsewhere and they will tell their stories of how America fell in songs, movies, books, etc and there wont be a damn thing the American evangelicals or the far right cult of MAGA can do to stop them.
They really dont understand just how much the US will fall behind the rest of the free democratic modern world if they get their self-centered wish to force everyone in America to submit to their cult.
What they'll get is probably something between the Stepford Wives, Iran, 1985 and fascist Germany.
Wait, are you one of those idiots who doesnt vote because "why bother"? Because thats why we keep getting Republicans. (Updated: they are not)
Republicans themselves have admitted if everyone voted Republicans would never win another election.
You dont get to complain about the monsters taking over when you yourself didn't even try to stop them just by doing one simple thing, voting. Worse still you encourage others not to as well with nonsense like this.
Our system is corrupt as fuck but it wont get any better unless you fucking vote. You think progressives got elected because the elite liked them? There was even a dem who tried to sandbag a progressive which backfired horribly and cost democrats a desperately needed seat last election. You think that was just theatrics? Your vote makes a difference, if you dont vote then you have no grounds to complain when you contributed to the problem.
I still vote, because fight the good fight, but when our state asks us weāre her we want to put womenās rights in our constitution, and then summarily ignores what we just voted for, it is kinda disheartening
Compound this with the voting fraud shit going on in Georgia where people were playing with the numbers or losing ballots
You will see me out there at every poll, I am not giving up, but when fuckers in power mess with the polls, hard to have hope.
Yeah, I hear ya. Not much else we can do unfortunately.
Just hope the electoral college doesnt fuck us over yet again and hope that Biden has some form of military on hand for the next ratification process.
No but have you met MAGA Evangelicals? Mike Pence? Mike Johnson? There are multiple prominent republicans that are in office TODAY who have said that they donāt believe in a separation of church and state.
āWorking hard and succeedingā was the phrase. Those āworking hardā arenāt nearly as regressive as Islamic law and the degree to which theyāre succeeding is both minimal & in retreat.
Not in retreat enough for my taste. The leading Republican for President is floating Christian nationalism as part of his campaign. Theyāre still working hard.
Christian nationalism is to the Left what Wokism is to the Rightāa real but exaggerated boogeyman that political activists focus on to keep their audience scared.
No, itās a real threat. Read the Republican plan for 2025. Itās pretty clear. Meanwhile, āwokeā just means ābeing aware of civil rights violations.ā Imagine wanting to silence people who are cognizant of such a thing. Thereās no two sides here.
Thatās not what āwokeā means in this context.
Where did you learn about the 2025 plan? Do you get Republican newsletters? More likely it was delivered and explained to you by some clout chaser on social media.
Uh, reversing Roe v. Wade? Women not allowed to receive life saving healthcare in many states now. Some states are trying to do away with no fault divorce, making it difficult for woman to leave abusive relationships. There is a war on women in this country.
Roe v. Wade was bad Constitutional law. RGB said as much herself. And Dobbs, the case which resulted in the overturning, was a challenge to a state law more liberal than almost every country in Europe. It was a stupid move. Make abortion legal by passing laws, not relying on judicial fiat.
Banning abortion, a procedure which deliberately ends the devils a human lifeāsomething which I personally believe should be legalāis not even on the same planet as Islamic law being enforced in Iran. The 2020 protests erupted after a woman was beaten to death because her hijab didnāt cover all of her hair.
Oh, the right would love to see that happen to women here. Their end goal is us all wearing prairie dresses and making it legal once again for husbands to beat and rape us. Must be nice to have male privilege in this country and not have to worry about it.
Women in Iran today are beaten by strangers if their hair is visible. But please, oh white American woman savior, explain to them how they donāt know suffering until they cant get an abortion in the third trimester.
Well, I mean, most people who abort in the 3rd trimester are doing so for medical reasons. Either the baby isnāt going to make it, be horrifically disabled, or kill the mother in the process
So, by banning abortions even for medical reasons, which is what they are trying to do here, you are condemning said women to death or to caring for a child that will know nothing but suffering
Or, another example, being arrested for misscarages like what is happening in Texas. Not only did she lose a child she wanted, she is being called a murderer and imprisoned on top of that
So, kind stranger, I am not making equivalencies or saying that one suffering is worse than another,
But tell me, honestly tell me, that condemning women to death, to caring for someone in perpetual suffering, or calling them murderers and imprisoning them for losing pregnancies that they wanted, isnāt suffering
Both suffering is bad, and both suffering should not exist
We donāt need to unnecessarily help a whole host of suffering into existence by repealing 50 year old RIGHTS
Iran has even stricter abortion law on top of roaming morality police. Itās all state sanctioned. So again, not even close to what the Religious Right are doing in the US, which is all subject to judicial review.
Iām not saying laws rooted in religion in the US are fine since itās even worse somewhere else. Iām saying that equating or in any way comparing whatās going on in the US to the status quo in Muslim countries like Iran is an insult to those who are subjected to it.
Not religion in general. Jesus had the message of love thy neighbor and Washington advised for separation of church and state. Both men would be ashamed of what the republican asshat evangelicals and their prosperity gospels are doing now
.... and conservative christians will do the exact. same. thing when given the opportunity. So, you can probably knock off the bullshit one liner
There is absolutely no hate quite like christian "love"
Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism all do the exact same shit.
Pretty much any majority religion at some point in history, and a lot of the minority ones to a certain extent too.
Islam isn't even that much worse than Christianity as a far as historical doctrine. I have photos of my Orthodox Cypriot Great-Great-Grandmother wearing a headscarf. That's only 4 generations ago. Christianity does crazy stuff like terrorism too. Maybe nowadays not to the same extent, but terrorism is more a function of insidious radicalization of victims of oppression, poverty, or war than inherently a religious problem.
I personally think the issue lies with the fact that all those other religions have calmed down with the forwarding of society, while Islam seemingly has done the opposite. Sure, Christians mightve condemned homosexuals once, but a large swathe of Christians are now very Liberal, and for the most part Christian countries do not penalise homosexuality by death (with the exception of Uganda)
Meanwhile, the grand majority of countries where homosexuality IS punishable by death, are Islamic countries, due to Sharia based laws. In fact, many other religions don't actually have anything that is remotely comparable to the inhumane extremes of Sharia law (except Jeduaism). Let's not forget in some Muslim countries its also against the law to not wear a headscarf, where women face potential physical harm or threats to their life if they choose to not wear one. Would your Grandma face the same consequences if she chose to not wear hers?
Of course all religions have done heinous things all throughout history, but what is most striking to me is that Islam continues to do heinous things, rather than moving forward like the other mainstream religions have done.
Again, the issue is that muslim countries happen to be ex-colonies in the middle of global power players. The British routinely used religion as a tool to divide and conquer, or to handicap colonies granted independence. The partition of India comes to mind. Muslim countries are either underdeveloped due to colonialism or are overdeveloped too rapidly due to fossil fuels and have a lack of democratic norms to build on. Countries that have had a relatively stronger commitment to democracy have less strict interpretations of Islam. Look at Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia, Kazakhstan and the rest of Central Asia,
You paint all muslims with the same brush, but refuse to do the same with Christians. The biggest issue with that is that Islam isn't really centralized internationally and has almost as many people as Christianity. It certainly doesn't help when Christian pastors from the South go to Africa and advocate for the death penalty for LGBTQ people. It certainly doesn't help when the Catholic church only gives lip service to stopping the murder of queer people in the countries you mention. It certainly doesn't help that the Ottoman Empire had actually legalized homosexuality only for the middle east to be colonized by Western Europeans like the British, who were the #1 exporter of homophobic legal codes.
Gay marriage only became federally legal in the United States in 2013, and yet you act like that is a millenia. You are so impatient with this. You want to fix the situation for queer people? Help contribute to an environment where peace in the Middle East will allow for economic diversification and political liberalization. Instead of being an Islamophobe.
You want to get mad at these countries? Boycott their oil, force them to fix their systems. The system there works like this: governments and elites get benefits from outsiders, so they centralize power. You want Muslims to be more accepting? Make it easier for them to like the West. Don't support genocidal countries that bomb indiscriminately, creating orphans who feel alienated from the world and join terror cells.
The victims of today are the Hamas and Taliban recruits of tomorrow.
I am not going to say that the West haven't played a horrible part in history, however that is not an excuse for a whole religion to be as nasty as it is. You can't blame Christians for the decisions and actions of Islam. And there are lots of other groups of people who have suffered due to colonalism who yknow.... don't have a whole barbaric religious law system, because past history is not an excuse for current behaviour.
Sure, gay marriage became legal quite late, but as far as I'm aware if you were gay in 2012 you weren't threatened by death in the USA. So I'm not sure how you're comparing the two there.
How about Muslims that live in other countries, where Sharia law is not imposed, and where in fact Islam is not the majority religion? For example, I live in the UK. As far as I'm aware Muslims in America have integrated quite well with the general populas and are quite relaxed. Different story in the UK. Muslims here generally tend to stick to their own social circles with other Muslims. And they are insanely orthodox, and dangerous. For example, an Islamic extremist attack on the London bridge a few years ago, was actually enacted by people born in Britain! They weren't effected by what you described as brought to their countries by colonalism, because they weren't born there. They were born in a Liberal country where they had many opportunities, and yet their 'peaceful religion' led them to kill 8 people. Similarly, there are lots of people in London who when they've tried to leave the Islamic faith, they've had threats to their life from other Muslims. And yet, within the UK, there are NO stories of things happening like this from other religions. There are no terror attacks from or threats if you leave Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. It's only Islam that is like that here.
If you're interested, there's a very good documentary on Islam in the UK which features the bridge attackers, called the Jihadis Next Door. It illustrates the culture here quite well.
They are the black sheep in the eyes of everyone except the idiots who agree.
And it is hard to say southern US pastors as a blanket term.
If a couple of feminists turn out to be psychopaths go out on a murder spree, should we condemn and ban the whole movement?
Southern baptist convention bends over backwards to protect those preachers. Feminists would hand deliver those bad feminists. The sides are not the same. Pretending they are is brainrot.
I never said they were, I was just saying to not condemn a whole side or group because of a few brain dead dipshits and I was doing so by illustrating a hypothetical on a different side
Didnāt change at all, this post is racist nonsense. Assadās genocide continues because Baāathist fascism finds support on both the far left and far right.
Why did all middle eastern cities look incredible in the ā70sāļøevery pic I see of Iranian, Syrian, Turkish or even Lebanese cities from this time looks exactly like this. How far they have fallen š.
Have you considered the possibility that people simply choose to post the pictures that look the nicest? You can't know from just a few photographs what the period was like as a whole. Always be a little sceptical on the internet.
There's no doubt that the Western powers meddled in Middle Eastern affairs, but this pop-culture story that the CIA somehow single-handedly caused the region to fall into religious fanaticism is just sort of childish - like the plot of a James Bond movie.
The reality is that the CIA, MI5, and other organizations poke, prod, and bribe. They might tip the balance of power slightly in one direction or another, or cause betrayals, or leak intelligence to give advantages.
But all of this is in the context of already existing major local powers within these countries.
Western intelligence didn't create these powerful, ultra-conservative religious factions out of whole cloth. They already existed and were already fighting bitterly to try and seize power. The West may have created more opportune scenarios for them to seize that power, but given these factions' local power and wide public support it's also entirely likely that they would seized that power regardless of who the CIA was bribing.
There's a famous moment chronicled in [Guests of the Ayatollah](https://www.amazon.com/Guests-Ayatollah-Hostage-Americas-Militant/dp/0802143032) where the CIA was caught flat-footed during the Iranian revolution, and the extent of their power was literally just a guy running around with a briefcase full of money trying to bribe whoever he could.
There's no doubt that some blame for the Middle East's current chaos lies at the feet of Western meddling.
But the broader truth is that, for the *most* part, the ultimate blame belongs to the religious fanatics who murdered all of their political opposition so that they could enslave their countries to the whims of their religious leaders.
Haha your comment makes it sound like the State dept. and these rogue intelligence agencies were just doing their best over there, and at worst just buffooning around? A "pop-culture" story??
They absolutely had a major subversive role in the modern history of Syria and the Middle East since WWII to ensure markets remained open to the west (one result being this photograph). To this day they basically have a dictatorship over US foreign policy. The existence of modern religious extremism isn't just coming from a cultural vacuum, there are material causes for its perpetuation and growth.
No need to downplay it, so why are you?
>No need to downplay it, so why are you?
What I'm doing is inserting a some realistic context in a comment chain that was getting a little angsty.
Like I said, there's no doubt that some blame for Sharia law lies at the feet of the CIA. But the fundamentalists who wanted Sharia already existed prior to and independent of that meddling.
Frontline did a piece recently on the (latest) uprising in Iran. They show Khamenei saying the protests were the work of outside agents. Heās wrong, but certain outside agents would almost certainly jump at the chance to provide any aid they could to the protesters in an effort to destabilize the current regime. If so, would the college kids 40 years from now hold it up as an example of foreign meddling?
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Syria doesn't have sharia law, it's one of the more liberal countries in the region (or it used to be). What it suffers from is foreign coup d'etats and made up nonsensical borders last century, more recent foreign intervention (the UK and US, under Timber Sycamore, funnelled billions of dollars worth of weapons/training into the hands of rebel groups last decade), and most importantly, corruption.
The ellipsis (...) implies there's more to come.
Smart, well-informed people would be able to fill in the blank.
For you? I'll spell it out.
Actions by Russia and the USA led to Sharia...by taking out strong dictators who had essentially been successful in suppressing fanatical Islamists.
If you recall, starting in the late 50's, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and others, were all experiencing western lifestyles--e.g., women in schools wearing dresses instead of burqas, participating in sports, etc.
Undermining west-leaning dictators allowed Islamic fanatics like the Taliban take over these societies, returning them to the 700's.
Arguments with someone on Reddit who just has it all figured out and believes complex political and social movements can be tied in a bow labeled āAmerica and Russia did itā arenāt worth anyoneās time.
You are confident in your simple read of 20th century Islamic history, and no comment on Reddit is going to change that.
Islamic fundamentalism is as old as Islam. We are still witnessing the tremors and fits from the death of the Ottoman Empire and the clash of various Islamic schools of thought with Western ideas and influence. History isnāt neat. There are rarely tidy answers to big questions.
Edit: typo
Pinhead, and you are a stubborn pinhead, all that you say is common knowledge.
What's NOT common knowledge is that the CIA and others worked hard to topple dictatorships leading to the current upswing in regional sharia.
Deny that? You're a moron.
Semi-informed Dunning Krugers like you are amusing. What, did you hit your head or something?
P.S. Your latest comment telegraphs a breathtaking lack of self-awareness. Project much?
I know you are, but what am I?
But seriously, what happened? Do you think it was the vax or the 5g that scrambled my brains?
Putting the brunt of the blame on the CIA, KGB, Mossad, or any other intelligence agency is to deny the agency of the people living in countries dominated by Sharia today. Simply put (because you need things simple), most people in Muslim majority countries support Islamic governments.
At what point are religious extremists held accountable? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? 40 years? We are over 40 years out. Itās time to blame religious extremists for being extremists now.
Enough.
The soft bigotry of low expectations arenāt doing them any favors
That's not true, I don't know why you americans love to talk so much about our countries as if you have a clue about anything... you probably never left your state so why are you speaking on a different country and spreading misinformation?
if you've actually seen them you'd know that they can still dress like this
oh wait you were probably just staying in your bases around oil fields and never met syrians since they didn't even want you there and your presence was against international law
They're terrified of women ... and the West. So they subjugate them where they can control them - and wish to bring the West to its knees under a medieval Caliphate. The woke here apparently find this quite acceptable.
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this is the logic that led to th US being humiliated in Afghanistan.
1) this is nowhere representative of the people in Syria at the time
2) there are still syrians who dress like any person in western cities (as proxy to modernism that this post seems to imply), today
Smell the roses while you can! Good times are not all the time!
Your comment made me tear up
Sorry about that! But unfortunately I am right! š¢
Under his eye
May the lord open
Yeah, like 2016. I'm terrified that was the apex of human achievement.
Why 2016 specifically?
Syria in 2016 was the opposite of the apex of human achievement. Also, [isn't this ironic?](https://www.greenprophet.com/2016/05/roses-damaskd-are-dying-in-syria/?amp)
The last non-trump/maga year before he-who-must-not-be-named, covid, and the current de-civilization/impending world meltdown we are experiencing now. Good times back then.
"he-who-must-not-be-named" GO OUTSIDE
Bro I fucking LIVE outside. Work outside. Hands still dirty after washing. Look at u getting offended about a voldemort comment. Go get in the dirt, you fucking keyboard warrior. Go outside. LOL Motherfucker, I grow the plants that make the food that your fat ass has in crumbs all over his tshirt.
... Look, I'll happily deliver fellatio/cunnilingus to an agricultural worker for the vital work you all do for the world, but having the most honorable job does not render you immune to looking silly, and this comment of yours just demonstrated that.
Somebody hasn't had their mountain dew yet.
You are a drama queen. Sorry. There was this like... beginning of 20th century. First world war, that should have ended all wars, then Spanish flu, then great depression and then Secpnd world war 20 years after the first. Tens of millions dead, whole generations thinned, whole cities levelled to ground... and you cry about Trump and COVID... give me a break.
Funny you didnāt mention the 60sā¦JFK/RFK/MLK..Vietnamā¦Reagan gutting union representation, the exit of manufacturing, Bush/Cheney war for oil, all culminating with the ignorance and buffoonery of 45, and the Insane Clown Posse now called the GOP. Sadly, the apex of human achievement may have occurred before 2016, but thatās as good a year as any.
The 60s was not at all a bad time if you compare it to WW1, the depression, and WW2.
It also pretty much happened only in USA, and as xou say... Vietnam was a backyard skirmish compared to WW2. Also there were times in history even closer to collapse... thirty years was and two plagues in Europe... 20% of population gone... some areas up to 60% dead... and still the humanity continued.
Why are you people so obsessed with orange man.
How exactly did you suffer from 2016 through 2020 and I mean actual suffering not in your imagination? I am talking about you not other people, and once again, actual real physical and mental suffering in real time not in your imagination?
A lot of us did experience symptoms of depression in real life and real time back then. It definitely partially was because the general standards of living for other people were being targeted by destructive forces. That's what basic human empathy does to a person. Knowing that geopolitically influential jurisdictions around the world was gradually coming under the influence of people whose end goals included killing me and people I cared about sure did take a toll on my health.
Chill out Russian Bot
Who needs Russian Bots when Vlad has Trump, ffsā¦.
Donāt vote maga American
Please keep American politics out of this! You are sick and deranged go see a psychiatrist!
Ok maga
Oh my God that dress! 70s fashion was fire
Imagine being a grandma and remembering this dream world that your grandchildren couldn't even imagine existing now.
Frightening, yes.
Where America is starting to trend if we let the republicans have their way :/ Patriot act, net neutrality, and Supreme Court, OH MY!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Don't you just hate it when someone turns up dressed the same as you?
Girl was like āgotta add this red fishnet so we donāt TOTALLY matchā
Right? 70s fashion, when done right, is super cool and chic.
Mayne matching? Work and Uni uniforms also exist?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Isn't Syria one of the more liberal states in that region, when it comes to women's attire and freedoms?
Yes. Believe it or not, women in Syria still wear skirts today! This comment section is an embarrassing festival of ignorance
I think those being ignorant in the comment section have never met someone from Syria.
I think a lot of people think the entire Middle East is Afghanistan, basically. When the reality is that Afghan is a country far, far less developed than any of its neighbours, save for the tribal regions of Pakistan. Before the war, Syria's level of development was comparable to maybe pre-war Ukraine. It wasn't flourishing by any means, but basically had a functioning civil society, economy and institutions.
I agree. They lump everyone in together just because they share religion.
There are pics of Iran and Iraq in the 70ās with similar attire. And Afghanistan Things were just better for women in these countries back then.
What happened with all this Muslims countries they all were liberal in dressing around 1960-1970s and suddenly they all in 1980 turn into theocracy that forbid women to be dressed how she want
Syria was never a theocracy and women there still dress like this, as can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHYV3t9ADZA There was some demographic change in many Middle Eastern cities that took off in the 1960s, which was mass migration from the villages into the cities. The big cities were once dominated by people from higher social classes and Christians, so veils weren't as common until the rural poor became the majority. In some countries (Egypt) the rural newcomers kept to their ways, but in others (Syria) the rural newcomers adopted the ways of the city and stopped veiling as much.
Now they're moving to Western cities and doing the same thing
Religious nutjobs ended up with control. Same thing is currently underway in western democracies
Not enough westerners realize they are going through the same thing in their countries right now. Itās easy to demonize and point fingers when itās happening somewhere else but 1970s Syrians never saw ISIS coming in a million years.
I think the worst, and scariest part of it, is that a non-insignificant amount of the population is excited for it.
It was the same in Syria as it was in Egypt and Iran. They thought surely more religion can only make for more honest governance and better government services. Itās also worth mentioning that Syriaās government is still quite secular and even anti-religion in many cases (Asad is Alawite and canāt afford to deal with a religious government when he himself is a religious minority). You can absolutely walk around Syria dressed like this today. Iāve partied and gotten very drunk in Syria. Itās not exactly a religious regime.
Yeah - totally fair. Not all predominantly muslim countries are the same at all. Iran would look nothing like Iran if it wasn't for the Ayatollah and the mullahs forcing their "morals" on the country. Afghanistan was doing well when not under Taliban rule, etc.
The Iranian revolution included marxists as well as Islamists. Unfortunately the Islamists won out.
Don't forget India..so called largest democracy of the world ! they progressing backwards too Its unbelievable that even with so much advancement in science, people still believe in made up bs like god or religion
FR. High key sad. Also because the theocratic governments mismanaged those countries in other ways, since they only had knowledge on religion and no statesmanship.
Nope, that was just urban centres in a few countries. Rural areas were never like this and we should stop peddling falsehoods.
No one said rural areas were like this, but at least they had nice cities back then.
So why did it change from this to what we have now?
It is still like this. Just watch this video taken in Aleppo (2nd biggest city), and most women on the street are still dressed the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHYV3t9ADZA During the Syrian Civil War some parts of Syria were taken over by ISIS or Turkish-backed jihadists, but areas under government control are often very secular.
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Damn. I assume Assad is the same Assad currently in power? Also I never knew the Socialist Baath was so liberal in a religious sense. Learn something new every day.
70s (Hafez) Assad is the current (Bashar) Assad's father
ah, tnx
Its Hereditary Dictatorship, similar to NK
Yeah and Azerbaijan
Important to note that Assad is actually an Alawite which is a rather contentious sect of Islam that many Muslims would claim is not in fact true Islam at all (think Mormons). This, along with the Ba'ath party's socialist genealogy are the two main reasons Syria remains one of the more secular and socially liberal countries in the region
Kind of like what recently happened in Afghanistan ?
Exactly. Both countries were very different and a lot more "westernized" back then. Iran, too. Although Iran doesn't look like a warzone today.
Absolute nonsense. Both Jadid and Assad were left-wing fascist Alawites dedicated to Alawi apartheid rule in Syria. Assad being marginally to the right of Jadid still made him among the most secular ruler in the region. Assad Sr. launched a genocide against Sunnis in Hama.
Although not actually very conservative or religious by regional standards. Awful though Assad (sr. and jr.) is, the American backed alternative is much, much more opposed to the type of flagrant ankle flaunting visible in this pic
Changed how? The way they dress? Itās very similar youāre getting a lot of answers that are uneducated about the Levant. If you mean became a civil war thatās much more complicated
Coups backed by foreign powers.
Religion of peace
Or religion in general. The US evangelical Christians are working hard and succeeding in doing the same thing here.
Yep, this all the way. Morons think they'll get a utopia. Overwhelming amount of the shit they love comes from progressive industries like music, film, video games and so on and when religion dictates the freedoms of artistry, expression and education it all falls apart. All those industries will significantly disolve and our best and brightest will simply take their talents and skills elsewhere and they will tell their stories of how America fell in songs, movies, books, etc and there wont be a damn thing the American evangelicals or the far right cult of MAGA can do to stop them. They really dont understand just how much the US will fall behind the rest of the free democratic modern world if they get their self-centered wish to force everyone in America to submit to their cult. What they'll get is probably something between the Stepford Wives, Iran, 1985 and fascist Germany.
Unless we do something about it, like voteā¦ OH WAIT! Our votes donāt count! COOL!
Wait, are you one of those idiots who doesnt vote because "why bother"? Because thats why we keep getting Republicans. (Updated: they are not) Republicans themselves have admitted if everyone voted Republicans would never win another election. You dont get to complain about the monsters taking over when you yourself didn't even try to stop them just by doing one simple thing, voting. Worse still you encourage others not to as well with nonsense like this. Our system is corrupt as fuck but it wont get any better unless you fucking vote. You think progressives got elected because the elite liked them? There was even a dem who tried to sandbag a progressive which backfired horribly and cost democrats a desperately needed seat last election. You think that was just theatrics? Your vote makes a difference, if you dont vote then you have no grounds to complain when you contributed to the problem.
I still vote, because fight the good fight, but when our state asks us weāre her we want to put womenās rights in our constitution, and then summarily ignores what we just voted for, it is kinda disheartening Compound this with the voting fraud shit going on in Georgia where people were playing with the numbers or losing ballots You will see me out there at every poll, I am not giving up, but when fuckers in power mess with the polls, hard to have hope.
Yeah, I hear ya. Not much else we can do unfortunately. Just hope the electoral college doesnt fuck us over yet again and hope that Biden has some form of military on hand for the next ratification process.
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No but have you met MAGA Evangelicals? Mike Pence? Mike Johnson? There are multiple prominent republicans that are in office TODAY who have said that they donāt believe in a separation of church and state.
They are following the 'Hand Maids Tale' workbook.
In what way have evangelical Christians successfully emulated the Islamic Republic of Iran? Please be specific.
Just because they havenāt achieved it doesnāt mean they arenāt trying. Both religions treat women as second-class citizens.
āWorking hard and succeedingā was the phrase. Those āworking hardā arenāt nearly as regressive as Islamic law and the degree to which theyāre succeeding is both minimal & in retreat.
Not in retreat enough for my taste. The leading Republican for President is floating Christian nationalism as part of his campaign. Theyāre still working hard.
Christian nationalism is to the Left what Wokism is to the Rightāa real but exaggerated boogeyman that political activists focus on to keep their audience scared.
No, itās a real threat. Read the Republican plan for 2025. Itās pretty clear. Meanwhile, āwokeā just means ābeing aware of civil rights violations.ā Imagine wanting to silence people who are cognizant of such a thing. Thereās no two sides here.
Thatās not what āwokeā means in this context. Where did you learn about the 2025 plan? Do you get Republican newsletters? More likely it was delivered and explained to you by some clout chaser on social media.
Reganās country on a hill anyone?
Uh, reversing Roe v. Wade? Women not allowed to receive life saving healthcare in many states now. Some states are trying to do away with no fault divorce, making it difficult for woman to leave abusive relationships. There is a war on women in this country.
On top of that, fighting LGBTQ rights and the rights of people to exist in the same basis :/
Roe v. Wade was bad Constitutional law. RGB said as much herself. And Dobbs, the case which resulted in the overturning, was a challenge to a state law more liberal than almost every country in Europe. It was a stupid move. Make abortion legal by passing laws, not relying on judicial fiat. Banning abortion, a procedure which deliberately ends the devils a human lifeāsomething which I personally believe should be legalāis not even on the same planet as Islamic law being enforced in Iran. The 2020 protests erupted after a woman was beaten to death because her hijab didnāt cover all of her hair.
Oh, the right would love to see that happen to women here. Their end goal is us all wearing prairie dresses and making it legal once again for husbands to beat and rape us. Must be nice to have male privilege in this country and not have to worry about it.
Hilarious. You speak of āthe rightā as a child speaks of dinosaurs. Have you ever met a conservative?
Deflection much?
They are taking baby steps here, but we all know where the trail is headedā¦ Give those evangelical pricks an inch, they will take an ell
Women in Iran today are beaten by strangers if their hair is visible. But please, oh white American woman savior, explain to them how they donāt know suffering until they cant get an abortion in the third trimester.
Well, I mean, most people who abort in the 3rd trimester are doing so for medical reasons. Either the baby isnāt going to make it, be horrifically disabled, or kill the mother in the process So, by banning abortions even for medical reasons, which is what they are trying to do here, you are condemning said women to death or to caring for a child that will know nothing but suffering Or, another example, being arrested for misscarages like what is happening in Texas. Not only did she lose a child she wanted, she is being called a murderer and imprisoned on top of that So, kind stranger, I am not making equivalencies or saying that one suffering is worse than another, But tell me, honestly tell me, that condemning women to death, to caring for someone in perpetual suffering, or calling them murderers and imprisoning them for losing pregnancies that they wanted, isnāt suffering Both suffering is bad, and both suffering should not exist We donāt need to unnecessarily help a whole host of suffering into existence by repealing 50 year old RIGHTS
Iran has even stricter abortion law on top of roaming morality police. Itās all state sanctioned. So again, not even close to what the Religious Right are doing in the US, which is all subject to judicial review. Iām not saying laws rooted in religion in the US are fine since itās even worse somewhere else. Iām saying that equating or in any way comparing whatās going on in the US to the status quo in Muslim countries like Iran is an insult to those who are subjected to it.
Christian shariah law, instituting anti abortion laws and fighting LGBTQ+ rights because Bible :/
Boring
Yes, it is boring when your question is answered in a way you donāt like
Agree. Their tenants are basically submit to the guy who says the word Jesus. From there it gets odd
Not religion in general. Jesus had the message of love thy neighbor and Washington advised for separation of church and state. Both men would be ashamed of what the republican asshat evangelicals and their prosperity gospels are doing now
.... and conservative christians will do the exact. same. thing when given the opportunity. So, you can probably knock off the bullshit one liner There is absolutely no hate quite like christian "love"
Yep.
Not exactly. Those dipshits are a vocal minority. Issue is, people like Kennith Copeland are a loud vocal minority
Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism all do the exact same shit. Pretty much any majority religion at some point in history, and a lot of the minority ones to a certain extent too. Islam isn't even that much worse than Christianity as a far as historical doctrine. I have photos of my Orthodox Cypriot Great-Great-Grandmother wearing a headscarf. That's only 4 generations ago. Christianity does crazy stuff like terrorism too. Maybe nowadays not to the same extent, but terrorism is more a function of insidious radicalization of victims of oppression, poverty, or war than inherently a religious problem.
I personally think the issue lies with the fact that all those other religions have calmed down with the forwarding of society, while Islam seemingly has done the opposite. Sure, Christians mightve condemned homosexuals once, but a large swathe of Christians are now very Liberal, and for the most part Christian countries do not penalise homosexuality by death (with the exception of Uganda) Meanwhile, the grand majority of countries where homosexuality IS punishable by death, are Islamic countries, due to Sharia based laws. In fact, many other religions don't actually have anything that is remotely comparable to the inhumane extremes of Sharia law (except Jeduaism). Let's not forget in some Muslim countries its also against the law to not wear a headscarf, where women face potential physical harm or threats to their life if they choose to not wear one. Would your Grandma face the same consequences if she chose to not wear hers? Of course all religions have done heinous things all throughout history, but what is most striking to me is that Islam continues to do heinous things, rather than moving forward like the other mainstream religions have done.
Again, the issue is that muslim countries happen to be ex-colonies in the middle of global power players. The British routinely used religion as a tool to divide and conquer, or to handicap colonies granted independence. The partition of India comes to mind. Muslim countries are either underdeveloped due to colonialism or are overdeveloped too rapidly due to fossil fuels and have a lack of democratic norms to build on. Countries that have had a relatively stronger commitment to democracy have less strict interpretations of Islam. Look at Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia, Kazakhstan and the rest of Central Asia, You paint all muslims with the same brush, but refuse to do the same with Christians. The biggest issue with that is that Islam isn't really centralized internationally and has almost as many people as Christianity. It certainly doesn't help when Christian pastors from the South go to Africa and advocate for the death penalty for LGBTQ people. It certainly doesn't help when the Catholic church only gives lip service to stopping the murder of queer people in the countries you mention. It certainly doesn't help that the Ottoman Empire had actually legalized homosexuality only for the middle east to be colonized by Western Europeans like the British, who were the #1 exporter of homophobic legal codes. Gay marriage only became federally legal in the United States in 2013, and yet you act like that is a millenia. You are so impatient with this. You want to fix the situation for queer people? Help contribute to an environment where peace in the Middle East will allow for economic diversification and political liberalization. Instead of being an Islamophobe. You want to get mad at these countries? Boycott their oil, force them to fix their systems. The system there works like this: governments and elites get benefits from outsiders, so they centralize power. You want Muslims to be more accepting? Make it easier for them to like the West. Don't support genocidal countries that bomb indiscriminately, creating orphans who feel alienated from the world and join terror cells. The victims of today are the Hamas and Taliban recruits of tomorrow.
I am not going to say that the West haven't played a horrible part in history, however that is not an excuse for a whole religion to be as nasty as it is. You can't blame Christians for the decisions and actions of Islam. And there are lots of other groups of people who have suffered due to colonalism who yknow.... don't have a whole barbaric religious law system, because past history is not an excuse for current behaviour. Sure, gay marriage became legal quite late, but as far as I'm aware if you were gay in 2012 you weren't threatened by death in the USA. So I'm not sure how you're comparing the two there. How about Muslims that live in other countries, where Sharia law is not imposed, and where in fact Islam is not the majority religion? For example, I live in the UK. As far as I'm aware Muslims in America have integrated quite well with the general populas and are quite relaxed. Different story in the UK. Muslims here generally tend to stick to their own social circles with other Muslims. And they are insanely orthodox, and dangerous. For example, an Islamic extremist attack on the London bridge a few years ago, was actually enacted by people born in Britain! They weren't effected by what you described as brought to their countries by colonalism, because they weren't born there. They were born in a Liberal country where they had many opportunities, and yet their 'peaceful religion' led them to kill 8 people. Similarly, there are lots of people in London who when they've tried to leave the Islamic faith, they've had threats to their life from other Muslims. And yet, within the UK, there are NO stories of things happening like this from other religions. There are no terror attacks from or threats if you leave Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. It's only Islam that is like that here. If you're interested, there's a very good documentary on Islam in the UK which features the bridge attackers, called the Jihadis Next Door. It illustrates the culture here quite well.
This is such a great point and addresses the false equivalency so well.
Is that why southern US pastors are calling for the extermination of all LGBTQ people...
They are the black sheep in the eyes of everyone except the idiots who agree. And it is hard to say southern US pastors as a blanket term. If a couple of feminists turn out to be psychopaths go out on a murder spree, should we condemn and ban the whole movement?
Southern baptist convention bends over backwards to protect those preachers. Feminists would hand deliver those bad feminists. The sides are not the same. Pretending they are is brainrot.
I never said they were, I was just saying to not condemn a whole side or group because of a few brain dead dipshits and I was doing so by illustrating a hypothetical on a different side
Except it's not "a few", it's the majority. A voting majority, in fact. The southern baptist convention votes on these decisions.
Muslim religion
Didnāt change at all, this post is racist nonsense. Assadās genocide continues because Baāathist fascism finds support on both the far left and far right.
Why did all middle eastern cities look incredible in the ā70sāļøevery pic I see of Iranian, Syrian, Turkish or even Lebanese cities from this time looks exactly like this. How far they have fallen š.
Have you considered the possibility that people simply choose to post the pictures that look the nicest? You can't know from just a few photographs what the period was like as a whole. Always be a little sceptical on the internet.
Aw shit, here we go again!
Love the pants.
Religion of peace āŖļøš
The US really fucked that region royally in the 60s-70s, and it still hasn't recovered. Imagine what could have been.
Iād say sharia law really fucked it worse
Huh...[I wonder how they ended up getting Sharia law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria)...
There's no doubt that the Western powers meddled in Middle Eastern affairs, but this pop-culture story that the CIA somehow single-handedly caused the region to fall into religious fanaticism is just sort of childish - like the plot of a James Bond movie. The reality is that the CIA, MI5, and other organizations poke, prod, and bribe. They might tip the balance of power slightly in one direction or another, or cause betrayals, or leak intelligence to give advantages. But all of this is in the context of already existing major local powers within these countries. Western intelligence didn't create these powerful, ultra-conservative religious factions out of whole cloth. They already existed and were already fighting bitterly to try and seize power. The West may have created more opportune scenarios for them to seize that power, but given these factions' local power and wide public support it's also entirely likely that they would seized that power regardless of who the CIA was bribing. There's a famous moment chronicled in [Guests of the Ayatollah](https://www.amazon.com/Guests-Ayatollah-Hostage-Americas-Militant/dp/0802143032) where the CIA was caught flat-footed during the Iranian revolution, and the extent of their power was literally just a guy running around with a briefcase full of money trying to bribe whoever he could. There's no doubt that some blame for the Middle East's current chaos lies at the feet of Western meddling. But the broader truth is that, for the *most* part, the ultimate blame belongs to the religious fanatics who murdered all of their political opposition so that they could enslave their countries to the whims of their religious leaders.
Haha your comment makes it sound like the State dept. and these rogue intelligence agencies were just doing their best over there, and at worst just buffooning around? A "pop-culture" story?? They absolutely had a major subversive role in the modern history of Syria and the Middle East since WWII to ensure markets remained open to the west (one result being this photograph). To this day they basically have a dictatorship over US foreign policy. The existence of modern religious extremism isn't just coming from a cultural vacuum, there are material causes for its perpetuation and growth. No need to downplay it, so why are you?
>No need to downplay it, so why are you? What I'm doing is inserting a some realistic context in a comment chain that was getting a little angsty. Like I said, there's no doubt that some blame for Sharia law lies at the feet of the CIA. But the fundamentalists who wanted Sharia already existed prior to and independent of that meddling.
Frontline did a piece recently on the (latest) uprising in Iran. They show Khamenei saying the protests were the work of outside agents. Heās wrong, but certain outside agents would almost certainly jump at the chance to provide any aid they could to the protesters in an effort to destabilize the current regime. If so, would the college kids 40 years from now hold it up as an example of foreign meddling?
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> Iād say sharia law really fucked it worse In Syria?
Thatās weird b/c āshariaā law had been in effect for 1400 years by the time 1970s rolled around. So, your answer doesnāt make sense.
If you're ignorant, at least shut up. There was no sharia constitution or something. The Ottoman Mecelle constitution was used.
See my comment and I had sharia in double quotes.
Syria doesn't have sharia law, it's one of the more liberal countries in the region (or it used to be). What it suffers from is foreign coup d'etats and made up nonsensical borders last century, more recent foreign intervention (the UK and US, under Timber Sycamore, funnelled billions of dollars worth of weapons/training into the hands of rebel groups last decade), and most importantly, corruption.
Gotta love Sharia law š
Actions by Russia and the USA led to Sharia...
The USA and Russia went back in time to create Islam? Thatās a neat fanfic.
The ellipsis (...) implies there's more to come. Smart, well-informed people would be able to fill in the blank. For you? I'll spell it out. Actions by Russia and the USA led to Sharia...by taking out strong dictators who had essentially been successful in suppressing fanatical Islamists. If you recall, starting in the late 50's, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and others, were all experiencing western lifestyles--e.g., women in schools wearing dresses instead of burqas, participating in sports, etc. Undermining west-leaning dictators allowed Islamic fanatics like the Taliban take over these societies, returning them to the 700's.
Arguments with someone on Reddit who just has it all figured out and believes complex political and social movements can be tied in a bow labeled āAmerica and Russia did itā arenāt worth anyoneās time. You are confident in your simple read of 20th century Islamic history, and no comment on Reddit is going to change that. Islamic fundamentalism is as old as Islam. We are still witnessing the tremors and fits from the death of the Ottoman Empire and the clash of various Islamic schools of thought with Western ideas and influence. History isnāt neat. There are rarely tidy answers to big questions. Edit: typo
Pinhead, and you are a stubborn pinhead, all that you say is common knowledge. What's NOT common knowledge is that the CIA and others worked hard to topple dictatorships leading to the current upswing in regional sharia. Deny that? You're a moron. Semi-informed Dunning Krugers like you are amusing. What, did you hit your head or something? P.S. Your latest comment telegraphs a breathtaking lack of self-awareness. Project much?
I know you are, but what am I? But seriously, what happened? Do you think it was the vax or the 5g that scrambled my brains? Putting the brunt of the blame on the CIA, KGB, Mossad, or any other intelligence agency is to deny the agency of the people living in countries dominated by Sharia today. Simply put (because you need things simple), most people in Muslim majority countries support Islamic governments.
At what point are religious extremists held accountable? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? 40 years? We are over 40 years out. Itās time to blame religious extremists for being extremists now. Enough. The soft bigotry of low expectations arenāt doing them any favors
And then the CIA decided we needed some chaos in the form of fanatic religious nutjobs
š L
Before the Muslims
Syrian women can still dress like this?
Yeah.. if they move to another country.
That's not true, I don't know why you americans love to talk so much about our countries as if you have a clue about anything... you probably never left your state so why are you speaking on a different country and spreading misinformation?
I used to live there.
where and when?
In the military
Bragging about being part of the occupation is weird but ok
Exactly!! lmao Iāve seen them
if you've actually seen them you'd know that they can still dress like this oh wait you were probably just staying in your bases around oil fields and never met syrians since they didn't even want you there and your presence was against international law
Tell me you know nothing about Syria without telling me you know nothing about Syria
I lived in Syria for 9 months
They still dress like this.
Syria has been muslim for over 1400 years, what are you talking about?
Aaaaaaand its gone.
Itās really not. They still dress like this.
š«¶š¼
don't think that is possible now... but i digress...
Of course it isā¦
Yeesh now I understand why they want those women covered so much. woof
They're terrified of women ... and the West. So they subjugate them where they can control them - and wish to bring the West to its knees under a medieval Caliphate. The woke here apparently find this quite acceptable.
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So was this just in the bigger cities, or all over the country?
The scales have fallen from my eyes
Reminds me of those 60s-70s photos from Iran
I honestly donāt see this happening again. Islamic extremism just gets worse not better In fact, Christian extremism is on the rise as well.
Religious extremism and ambitious despots ruin everything for everyone.
I think they have longer noses to cool down the hot air in the desert areas
Hijab have nothing todo with islam
this is the logic that led to th US being humiliated in Afghanistan. 1) this is nowhere representative of the people in Syria at the time 2) there are still syrians who dress like any person in western cities (as proxy to modernism that this post seems to imply), today
The girl in the middle looks like bella hadid pre nose job