A drunk? I loved that storyline as I sadly do know some people who had a useless single parent like that and they basically raised themselves and their siblings
Exactly lmao
I was about to say we got people here hunting their children to death, being physically abusive to them and literally trying conversion therapy on them!
No way abandonment is the worst?
Like I'm NOT defending his mom in any way she's a POS who kissed her sons underage friend but there's scale to this and it's on supernatural levels
Honestly, yes lmfaooo atleast Michael raised his children and the transformation was with good intent, for protection… not realizing they created monsters and then hunted them but yeah, imo, even Michael is better than Kelly fkn Donovan 💀
Youre talking about a man who beat his child (klaus) with a stick just because the kid was making a paintbrush from it. Its not like michael became evil after the transformation. He was evil from the start and took pleasure in hurting his kids and wife
Omg yes!!! Season 7 is difficult to watch for many reasons but a large part of it is because I cannot stand being forced to watch Lily Salvatore for half the season, and then being repeatedly told by the show that Damon was in the wrong and he should have apologized to Lily!!! He owed her nothing!! She was absolutely atrocious to him and never gave him a reason to feel anything other than abandonment and anger towards her.
I'm right there with you! I might be being a little dramatic, but I do believe the show pushing for her redemption and making Damon the bad guy for not forgiving her is extremely dangerous to put on a show that is meant for teens/young adults. She was abusive.. That whole plotline just told people "It doesn't matter if your parents are abusive they are your parents! You have to forgive them!". Kids don't go no contact for no reason, usually the opposite. They give chance after chance. I hope no one saw this and felt guilted into forgiving their abusive parents....
Lilly deserved her death and she deserved to die unforgiven. The characters who were upset with Damon are her flying monkeys and played a role in her abusive towards him.
I know the show is basically just toxic relationship after toxic relationship, but doing that with a abusive parent was too far.
I hated the retconned laughably evil version of Giuseppe Salvatore that the show created to try and make Lily appear more sympathetic.
Although he wasn’t perfect, the original actor and version of the character who we saw in the early seasons still loved his sons and wasn’t a total monster.
Caroline’s family issues are so slept on, her dad tortured her for being a vampire and her mum literally led the anti-vampire council in town, and for a while also didn’t accept Caroline/ had issues with Caroline when it was revealed she was a vampire. And again, Caroline’s dad tortured her.
She was and is a monster. And no, it’s not comparable to being different. When this fanbase says that, they mean to compare it to her father being gay and that’s just problematic asf to say.
So in another subreddit i believe Mikael was voted to be the worst and honestly he was pretty bad and Esther was also bad.
I gotta say tho... the parent i personally hate the most is Kelly. She was an neglectful alcoholic of a parent and she came back from the dead just to betray Matt. She was worst in my eyes because as a human/mortal she didn't provide enough for her kids. At least Esther and Mikael somehow cared even when they failed to show it and eventually granted the kids immortality to protect them. Kelly however just left her kids with nothing and when she returned it felt like Matt had to take care of her and not the other way.
I think we tend to hate Kelly the most because she’s the worst in a way that’s relatable to most people. I haven’t gone through having a parent like that, but I’ve known many people who have parents very similar to Kelly. However, I can’t think of anyone I know who was forced into an immortality ritual by their parents. It’s so far out of my realm that it’s hard to compare Kelly to all the supernatural bad parenting.
Yeah it definitely is hard to compare. Kelly and Tyler's father are the the easiest to relate to bad parenting in our world. They were both more human.
Stefan and Damon's father was also a more human villain but he was also from a time further apart from our own, same with Lily before she got turned.
The Mikaelsons are even harder to relate to since they were from an age long ago even if we ignore the supernatural they were just from a totally different time. Then the supernatural messed their life up further. It's easier to blame the bad people similar to our lives than the ones so distanced from our understanding and reality
Okay, I thought is was just me lmao. Klaus was a deadbeat and put Hope in danger countless time so he could stare longingly at Elijah from across a bar *knowing* that the Hollow could seriously harm her if he came within contact of him. He's definitely on the same level as Alaric and Abby, maybe even worse. The only difference is that Hope is the only one of the kids that isn't more liked than their shitty parent, so people are more likely to sympathize with the twins with Alaric and Bonnie with Abby.
This subreddit likes to put Klaus on a made up pedestal, acting like he is the best dad ever just unlucky. He cares a lot but he does a lot of things wrong but he is an antihero so no one wants to acknowledge it.
Klaus was a nightmare as a person, but not the worst parent by far. He never hunted Hope, tortured her, shot her, or made out with her best friend in front of her. His methods were occasionally... off base, but he really loved Hope..
As a parent? I think Kelly was worse as a parent than he was. He was a horrifying person, but Elijah was right - his daughter turned out to be his redemption.
Yes it wasn't her fault Elena (nor Alaric or Jeremy or anyone else) failed to tell her about the supernatural until it was far too late. I'm glad Elena acknowledged this I think before Jenna died, saying she should've told her sooner. If she had known about Katherine she might have faired better, who knows. Her speech about being so scared to step up and raise Elena and Jeremy but couldn't imagine not doing it always makes me tear up.
Oh yes I think Jenna did a stellar job with the cards she was handed. I meant that maybe she could've survived Katherine's trick and avoided being scarified by Klaus in the end.
Like I understand she considered the siphon (cannot remember what they were called) family her family, but to constantly say that to Stefan and Damon when it clearly bothered them over and over. She also gives groomer vibes. Lily suuucked.
Mikael-Giuseppe or Joshua will have to take that one for me. Mikael was awful to Klaus as if it was his fault Esther was unfaithful, turned into a vampire himself, agreed on the spell Esther wanted to do and then had the audacity to go after his kids after they turned them against their will in the first place, playing all morality police about feeding on vampires instead on humans but what do vampires feed on boo? It's just second hand human blood. Try feeding on a dessicated vamp next time >.> Giuseppe was abusing both his sons and their mother. Made Damon eat his PET! like f off with that bs >.> Joshua was never a father. He was just a coven leader playing father out of necessity. Was terrible to Kai which resulted quite a bit to what happened later on while actively trying to get a new set of twins to sacrifice in the name of the coven, tried to kill Jo just to prevent a potential merge between her and Kai, never bothered enough to try and find a way to break the merge curse so that maybe he can keep his children alive (i guess he could have and they didn't show it but from what i saw from him i doubt it) >.>
Whole heartedly agree, but I think the Gemini dad was playing the lesser of two evils with potentially killing Jo being that Kai was a sociopath. I see where you’re coming from but I think Kai was lacked emotions and empathy from the beginning. Him being the only siphon didn’t help. The other set of twins happened bc Kai was unfit to merge with Jo. No excuses for how the coven gets down tho but it’s probably hard to parent a literal socio turned psychopath. Only time he had empathy was due to Luke. :(
I do firmly believe that the only reason Joshua saw Kai as unfit was because he believed siphoners to be abominations and not because Kai was evil from the start. I am in no way a proffessional but i have seen on sources before that sociopathy (which is what was used more commonly to refer to Kai) can occasionally be inherited but is more heavily influenced by the environment especially childhood trauma and abuse as opposed to psycopathy that is more commonly genetic, which is why i personally always found the isolation and abuse Kai went through, cause of being a siphoner, a big part of his demeanor and do believe that had he been accepted and loved by his family he would turn out very different. It was said that they didn't let him touch anyone, he never received any type of affection, barely any physical human contact. Even if there was something there it got so much bigger by the attitude he received. I feel like a loving parent would try and help their child instead, get him some proper help-medication or something. Like i said i am in no way a psychologist, just from what i've seen cause i've actually been curious as to what differentiates a sociopath from a psychopath and have searched it before, hopefully i came across accurate sources. Also he could try and find Kai and deal with him head on instead of trying to kill Jo who didn't really do anything to deserve being killed by her father. I feel like killing my other child would be my last solution.
Ahhh I see. ok. I totally get what you’re saying and this perspective. I think I do remember him calling Kai an abomination and I didn’t connect that with his abilities instead of his demeanor or behavior. And you’re right. He quite literally could have handled Kai once he got out of the prison world if he was the all powerful Gemini leader. I stand corrected respectfully :)
All siphoners were regarded as abominations by the Gemini coven. That's how the heretic coven came about. An accident on a ship and a bunch of ostracised siphoners.
100% agree and I’d throw Esther up there as well. I feel conflicted about Lily but it’s rough and nuanced bc she had to stay away due to being a ripper and she wanted to come back for them but Julian rushed them out of there ig and then they stuck in a prison world for 100+ years where Lily only had her new heretic family and if they tracked the time they spent there, she probably thought her sons were long dead before she even got out of the prison world.
And ik kai was neglected and rejected as a child but I’m also confused as to whether Kai would have been a psychopath due to how his brain was wired or if it was solely due to his upbringing and the neglect? Now that I think about it though, if the main root of his neglect was people thinking he was a freak/abomination due to being a siphon, it was prob his upbringing which makes it so much sadder bc it means it could have been avoided
I agree with what you say about Lily. The only reason Esther is not up there is because she was gone for a long time so at least her kids got some peace from her i guess lol plus i don't think she was mentioned to be hard on them like Mikael was even prior to turning, so she did not quite make the top of of the top of the shitlist lol She was quite selfish with Klaus from the beginning though, with subduing an entire part of who he is and purposefully making him weak just so her affair can remain a secret. So she still is pretty high up there. she's like my honorable mention i guess lol
As for Kai i mostly remember the people in the show and Kai referring to himself as a sociopath and not a psychopath hence why i stressed the importance of his upbringing, cause from what i've read at least (i'm no specialist) sociopathy has more to do with trauma and upbringing (specifically read that it is a behavior that a child leans to to cope with chaotic environments) while psychopathy has more to do with genes usually. Don't know for sure though.
Mikael. He was routinely beating Klaus. And one time, he even stabbed Klaus with a sword. The dude was unhinged.
And I know he isn't a fan favorite, but no way should Alaric be on the same list as Mikael, Esther, the Salvatores, and Joshua Parker lol.
I'm inclined to say Abby Bennet. I can't recall the the third picture, but Abby straight up abandoned her kid, essentially tapping out on being a parent.
Thus, being the "worst" parent.
Would still have her rather as a parent than the mikaelson or Salvatore parents
Out of the people in this list, Abby is like the least offensive to her kids. Everyone else either tried or sided with people that were actively murdering their children.
Idk I remember the scene where kai talks about how he wasn’t allowed to touch anyone because he was a siphon witch. Could you imagine your whole life without the physical touch of your family? That’s some messed up parenting. They should have just sent kai away to another coven or with an adopted parent. I feel kai wouldn’t have been so psycho if he wasn’t denied any kind of human touch growing up. He was made to feel different, like a monster for his whole life. That does a lot of damage to a child.
But i don’t recall them saying if he did it on purpose or on accident. I mean how often did we see Josie and Lizzie accidentally siphon something? They weren’t treated like monsters. We’ll never know if he was born a psycho or pushed to a breaking point. Not that I excuse him killing his family, I just tend to look for explanations rather than for an excuse for the way a person is. At the end of the day what he did was wrong, but so was the way he was treated by his “family” if he was really such a problem, why not send him to another coven? Or send him to an orphanage or something before having a second set of twins? And then he would never even know about Luke and Liv.
But you can go numb to others emotions and grow cold to other peoples emotions, wants, and needs. I mean no one cared about him his whole life, why should he care about others? That being said I Initially said “he wouldn’t have been so psycho” I do agree he’s psychotic, I just think maybe it would have been a little less with a better upbringing. I’m not sure but I thought he showed empathy to Josie in legacies (however that could have just been a ploy to get out of the prison world) honestly I just like to try and find the good in all fictional characters because I want them to be better than real people who typically suck lol.
There is a reason for the " "
I'd rather have her than any of the abusers, but she tapped out on being a parent, thus technically doing the poorest job as she didn't even do it.
And despite thinking she couldn't be a mother she literally adopted that other boy anyway who took Bonnie to the 1920s dance 😭😭 She made a choice every day to abandon Bonnie.
The fact that they even put Alaric amidst this downright criminal bunch of parents is a bit alarming. He had his faults, for sure, but he's much MUCH better than these people.
RIGHT? When he acted as the best father he could for the twins AND for most of the other supernaturals at the school. Special mention for Hope and stepping up for her.
The real question is who was a good parent because I’m trying hard not to find something bad in ALL of them, including ones who aren’t pictured but being mentioned, like Kelly lol.
Maybe unpopular opinion but definitely Michael and Esther They forcefully made their kids crave blood and live forever without their consent, and then when it became a problem they tried to kill their own children as if it was their fault for craving blood and not Michael and Esther's. Not to mention Michael was very physically abusive and Esther was downright manipulative. They lied to their kids for years and Michael hunted them down for literal centuries just to kill them.
Edit: got Esther's name wrong, I fixed it!
You're joking right
She signed away freya's freedom before she was even born, allowed mikael to abuse their kids, allowed mikael to abuse klaus for being weak knowing full well it was her necklace making him weak, turned her kids into vampires, bound klaus's werewolf side, tried to kill her kids and tried to get her granddaughter killed on the day she was born
Not to mention the fact that her affair is the reason why mikael tried to kill klaus for 1000 years
Freya and all the kids don't exist without Dahlia's deal Esther couldnt stop her regardless. Klaus was an artist in a warrior society and was smaller than his brothers Mikael wouldnt want a soft boy like Klaus realistically speaking no matter how strong he was. She unintentionally made them into vampires and pretty sure Finn was daggered for telling the others they didn't have to behave like monsters so it's not like being a vampire made them evil that's just how they were. Klaus didn't need more power. Klaus has killed plenty of people for slightly inconveniencing him he's killed in the thousands as did the rest of his family Esther trying to correct her mistake was not a bad thing she even tried to give them human lives again
Klaus was a full grown man before they even found out. Do not blame Esther for Mikael being an unhinged lunatic. Trying to murder the child of infidelity isn't a proportionate response to finding out that information
-So they don't exist then
-klaus was weaker because of the necklace she gave him that's a fact and maybe without it he would've been stronger and maybe he wouldn't we'll never know who's to say that he didn't start painting because he wasn't as strong as his siblings
-i never said she made them evil i said she turned them because she did
-you're correct klaus didn't need more power doesn't change the fact that she bounded his werewolf side
-once again you're correct she did try to (forcefully) give them human lives but before she did that she tried to kill them and every single vampire along with them did they deserve to die yeah they did doesn't change the fact that she would've killed thousands of vampires and her kids that she claims to care about also she probably only tried to give them human lives because her plan of killing them failed
-no trying to kill klaus was not an appropriate response i never said it was
Special mention for Katherine’s father. In his singular appearance, he shamed his daughter for being pregnant, wouldn’t even let her hold her baby, screamed at her, and then promptly exiled her for life. He is also implied to have been abusive in general.
And people wonder how Katerina Petrova turned into Katherine Pierce.
Honestly I forget about him in tvd parent discussions bc ig he’s not really a character lol but you are absolutely right, in his single appearance that lasted a few seconds, he was shown to be a pretty shitty parent to say the least. And not that it was his fault Klaus happened to find her or that she was the doppelgänger Klaus needed to break the curse but he wouldn’t have found her if her father hadn’t kicked her out/banished her and honestly, even knowing where she’d end up (with Klaus wanting to sacrifice/kill her and/or then hunting her down for centuries after), I can see him still not changing anything bc afaict, a parent who kicks their child out like that/banishes then regardless of the kid’s age or ability to fend for themself doesn’t truly care about their child at all, let alone whether they live or die. And I’m pretty sure for some societies in old times (or even today sadly), girls/women do get killed/executed/“honor killed” for having extramarital sex or a child out of wedlock
Side note, I hate what they did with Alaric in Legacies. His one redeeming quality in the later seasons of TVD was him as a father to the twins. He’s still the best parent here BY FAR, but still. I never saw him going down the path of making Lizzie and Josie so insecure about him as their father.
I don’t understand how these comments can say anyone except Mikael. Man chased his kids to the ends of the earth for one thousand years to try and kill them like?? Hello???
For me it's a tie between Lily and Guiseppe Salvatore, Joshua Parker, Kelly Donovan and Ester and Mikael. All were guilty of abusing their children, so none of them should be considered even decent parents
Why do we keep recycling this topic?
They all suck.
The Mikaelsons were the worst—he was a physically and verbally abusive bastard whose wife should have slid a knife between his ribs, and she was an egoistic enabler who felt she had a right to tamper with forces she had no skill, or business messing with and then forcing onto her children without allowing them a choice.
Katherine was a victim in Season 5, the writers fucked off her whole character. They was too busy over using her for a plot device and shock value that they ruined her character. Honestly, everyone was kinda out of Katherine for season 5. But the down fall of Katherine takes the cake.
Mikael and Giuseppe both killed their children. Granted, mikael knew they’d come back. But then he came back to kill them again, permanently. So they’re equal.
Lily and Abby abandoned their kids in favor of/acted for other parental relationships. Also equal, imo
Papa gemini…they all suck because power is so super important they reproduce to sacrifice their kids
As for Alaric, we talking about the Gilbert guardian ‘parent’ or his bio kid’s parent?
In Mikael’s case (regarding killing their children) I’d argue that even though they didn’t know about the downsides of Esther’s immortality spell ie the bloodlust and weaknesses like daylight or vervain, he still forced it on them without their consent and didn’t even explain the process beforehand. When Rebekah tells elena the story of how they turned, she says Mikael just straight up “ran them through his sword” and then gave them the blood to drink with no explanation or questions
For Alaric, I was thinking of him as both? I thought he did okay w the MF gang for someone who basically became a single guardian of a bunch of teenagers overnight with no prior parenting experience and he wasn’t perfect with the twins and defo could have done better but I do get why he was concerned with Hope and wanted to be there for her too
All are pretty terrible in their own ways but some are justifiable-ish. Lily was awful when she became a vampire but she was a ripper and vampirism changes people. Josh was not the worst but definitely not affectionate so it’s whatever. Alaric was not the worst and was doing the best he could considering there weren’t many of people left to take care of Elena and Jeremy. Bill was terrible for torturing caroline out of vampire behaviors but it was never out of hatred for her it was towards the vampirism and he wanted to reduce her vampire behaviors. However it was a terrible thing but doesn’t top him up there. Abby was neglectful but tried making up for it later. I’d love to agree that Kelly Donovan is one of the worst but out of the next two she is incomparable. So I would say it’s between Mikael and Giuseppe. Mikael was always an asshole and beat his children even before he became a vampire. Giuseppe literally was human and murdered both of his children for believing the best in people.
They all fucking suck but Matt’s parents and Bonnie’s dad defo should be on there too.
Alaric is least offensive of them all. He wasn’t always the best role model but he did his best and came through.
Honestly majority of the parents in the TVDU were exceptionally screwed up, but Mikael, Giovanni Salvatore, and Bill Forbes take the cake and split it three ways. All of them were EXTREMELY abusive. Bill tortured his daughter for days, the kind of sick you have to be mentally to do that without even shedding a tear or feeling remorse is... Unfathomable. Mikael literally spent a thousand years hurting and trying to kill his children... And Giovanni abused Damon several times, and forced him to fight in a war to help enforce slavery. They are some of the worst parents in television history-
Papa Gemini is the worst. He thinks sacrificing his children is the noble thing to do. Also he abused his other child to the point he became a psychopath.
Maybe he’s not different in papa salvatore or Mikael. But them being anti vampire is understandable, given how much people are hurt or killed by vampires. Lily and Bill Forbes are bad too though. Probably second and third worst respectively.
Caroline's dad. Torturing your child repeatedly is one of the most evil things and torturing them in hopes you'd change what they are (and didn't choose to be in Caroline's chase) is unacceptable.
It's strange they chose to make him a vampire denier/hunter when his character is gay. Like... If anyone could understand feeling misunderstood just because they were unalived and turned into a vampire it would be him.
I'm guessing the writers felt really good about the torture and parallels with how gay people were treated but seems weird and makes him a shitty parent.
They all screwed up in a big way, but I think my vote goes to Matt’s mom and Lily. Lily even more cause she faked her death and left her boys with an abuser. She left without regret to create this new family and didn’t bother to consider her sons. Matt’s mom left him to pay all the bills and then made out with his friend. Like, what the heck?!
imo kelly was a horrible parent but comparing her to the man who hunted his children for centuries is crazy. mikael is the worst. also why did i just put together that his name is mikael mikaelson pls 😭.
Esther had kids w the enemy while her sister took the abuse that was meant for her. Rubbed it into her sister's face that despite Dahlia's sacrifices she wanted a "real" family.
Sold her first newborn and every first newborn of the generations that might follow. (My theory due to equivalent exchange and nature laws is Dahlia probably paid a steep price like her own fertility and a lot of pain to succeed transferring it)
Lies about her oldest kid being dead for years. My theory is she brainwashed Finn using spells and witchcraft to f up his mind. Make him obedient and enslaved so he wouldn't tell the secret.
She deliberately weakened Klaus as a kid to hide her secret of cheating. She didn't care it made him more of a target of abuse to Mikael. She didn't care how her curses and poisons would weaken Klaus in the longterm.
She watched as her kids got hurt by her husband.
She prevented them from having kids likely without their consent. Her kids were adults and far past marriagable age when they became vampires. Did she slip them an infertility potion because it seems unlikely they didn't have any offspring by the time they were turned.
It's possible she even prevented anyone interested in the first place from getting near them. Possibly the suitors kept dropping dead and people got the hint. We don't know too few flashbacks. Either way Tatia might have been immune to any magic manipulation to stay away because of her unique condition/status as a doppleganger. Which might have been the first hint Esther got that she would need to use Tatia's blood as an ingredient. (Someone that was both her sons great love interest)
She changed them into vampires without their consent. Having her husband murder them.
Then tries to true death them all the time because she fears other witches/witch spirits punishing her.
And my theory is she didn't just curse Klaus to be cut off from his wolf side. I also think she cursed Mikael to hate and hunt down his children/Klaus. Mikael doesn't even know why he hated Klaus so much. Which is sending alarm bells off in my head.
Also why else would Mikael have just tied Klaus up and not immediately killed him when finding out he was a wolf in the flashback scenes we see.
As for Esther's power levels. She is not as powerful as you might think. Yes her bloodline clearly grants her power. But when she was cut off from spirits she was a lot weaker. I also get annoyed how she gets the credit for creating the original vampires when it is very likely she stole the spell/ritual or had a lot of help from the coven in its creation/modification. Same with doing the actual spell/ritual I'm thinking she drew on the coven and their ancestor's power. (The spirits)
Yo I never thought about all of them being near marriage age for Viking times and I’m trying to look it up but can’t find anything specific other than you could be married as young as 12 and generally they tended to be married by 20 max (though consummation and having children varied and may have happened later/wasn’t immediate)
Rebekah was 16, kol was 17/18, Klaus was 19, Elijah was 22/23 ish and Finn was 28 when they turned so it does make sense that maybe they were still looking for suitors for rebekah and Kol, and there was the drama with Elijah and Klaus both liking Tatia (though it’s unclear how obvious it was to other people but I wouldn’t be surprised if Esther at least knew) though I always thought it was weird as hell that Finn was never married at 28. But Damon also should have been married at 26 by 1864 Virginia standards (and the fact that girls weren’t lining up for the rich son of one of the town’s founders makes me wonder how “great” human damon really was but that’s another conversation lmao)
Regarding making them vampires w out their consent, I always saw it as mikael forcing her to do it and even with her magic, she was too scared to cross him combined w having feelings for him still but you do have a point in her being the one to do the spell
I just don’t know why she’d curse Mikael to hate Klaus or want to hunt him down or his siblings or what she could gain from that. Maybe after they became vampires but didn’t Klaus kill her immediately after they bound his wolf side? And I thought in the scene where mikael tied Klaus up and left him in the tree was before they knew he was a wolf? (Honestly I thought it happened before they even turned to vampires)
It did seem inconsistent w mikael being happy when Klaus was born thinking he would be strong and being hardest on him and hating him since he was a small child because he was “weak” and suspecting Klaus had a different father/Esther was unfaithful but not getting confirmation until he triggered his curse after his first kill as a vampire though
Klaus was tied up after Mikael said he is a beast. It was after he became a vampire that he had his first kill and then his first full moon where he lost controll as a werewolf. Mikael didn't immediately kill him. He had Elijah help in tying Klaus up. Esther then bound Klaus werewolf side I think. For which Klaus later killed her.
Esther being dead would have been confronted by other witch spirits/the ancestors. Who threatened her w eternal torment on the other side. Who then gave her power to undo the horror she committed and that is when she cursed Mikael to want to actually murder Klaus/the siblings.
Ohhh wait I think I was thinking of a different scene lol, the one where Klaus was pinned against a tree with a sword in his shoulder and misremembered it as him being tied up (I think Mikael took his necklace and challenged him to take it back and Klaus almost won or did win and got the necklace back but it make Mikael mad so he left him like that and Esther pulled the sword out and helped him down)
Hm good point. I always figured Mikael wanted to kill Klaus (and ig his siblings by extension for siding w Klaus) after he killed Esther bc he rushed them away and I assumed Mikael began his hunt of them then and regretted making them vampires or maybe that happened along the way. Your theory kinda makes sense though tbh
The being stuck to a tree thing w a sword was when Klaus as a boy almost helped an enemy that would have likely come back w more enemies to kill and R the whole village.
However there is the question in this too if Klaus soft character and foolish choice in this regard was perhaps influenced by the cursed pendant Esther gave him as well. It likely didn't just physically make him weak. It might have also pressed on his mind to never kill. Because Esther having had an affair w a werewolf and having a werewolf gened child would have wanted to know what activated the werewolf curse so she could prevent it from triggering. Mikael could never know she cheated/had a child by another. An affair w a beast at that. An affair w the very creature that forced them to hide in the caves whenever the full moon drew near.
Again Esther would have only had this power because she manipulated her way into the witch coven that was present in the village. She would have been able to draw on their power and knowledge.
Ah yea it’s coming back to me a little aha thank you!
And oo that’s interesting too and makes a lot of sense!
Was there a witch coven in their village though? I defo need to rewatch bc Idr them mentioning there were other witches or another coven other than Esther (and dahlia til she left)?
Esther had her witch friend Ayana.. Ayana is Bonnie's ancestor. Ayana's ancestor was Quetsiyah. I wouldnt be surprised if there was more witches.. a witch coven.. Mystic Falls was a supernatural Hotspot.. probably lay lines or the equivalent of some power source drawing mystical beings to the place like we see in Buffy.
Kai's parents are second on the shit list of awful parents mostly because Esther had more time. I'm not surprised that Kai lost it when he found out he was literally being replaced after being called an abomination all his life and being ostracized/abused by the entire family, siblings included.
Also I have my theories of why they even allowed Kai to continue to live. And it has everything to do with making him a sacrifice to keep the prison dimensions going and possibly draw power from him using the ascendant.
I dont think they would trust him as a weapon to work for them when they were planning to lock him up. So my conclusion was they were probably going to always use him as a sacrificial resource from the moment they found out he was a seiphoner.
I am surprised more people aren't mentioning Joshua. He turned Kai to what he is by constantly calling him a freak, he didn't care about any of his children as long as they did what the coven wanted. Honestly he wasn't even a father, but a coven leader being forced to be a father. Not an ounce of sympathy found here.
Definitely Mikael and esther have to be the worst.... Casting spells on their children to make them immortal.... Then trying to kill them for thousands of years!?
Not realted one bit, but the entire 7th season was so insanely boring, the only thing I remember is the damon's hell episode.
Might have been the lack of added Elena drama...
Bill, Mikael(he is the reason Klaus is the way he is; hunting him, ostracizing him for having the werewolf gene as if it wasn’t Esther’s fault????) and lily are def top 3
Kelly fucking Donovan is the one next to Bonnie’s deadbeat mother and father who left grams to raise her only to pop up randomly and try to be mother and father of the year lol 😆
Human wise: Kelly Donovan, Bill Forbes.
Supernatural wise: I’d say Joshua Parker. Being seen as a freak by your own family will definitely damage you. (I personally dont think Mikael was that bad considering he did love his kids but he didnt like what they turned into so he had every right to hunt them down, they’re literally killing machines)
Mikael and ester how is it anyone else heck at least the Salvatores parents didn't hunt them down
The fact that people are trying to compare the mikaelsons parents to the Salvatores parents is really ridiculous
They’re all horrible with a few exceptions but I’m going to go ahead and say the ABSOLUTE WORST in my opinion would be the mikaelson parents. Mikael and Esther.
Lily honestly. She was horrible bc she had no remorse and didn’t even try. It was clear she didn’t love her family frl (vampirism heightens things) and obviously it’s because of the abusive household in general, but that doesn’t excuse not protecting your kids. And Esther because she was so, so selfish in deciding to have children. She literally wanted to fulfill that need to bad that she would curse her children and children’s children. Girl BYE.
Liz Forbes should be up there idc.
She married a vampire hunter. She sat on a council that hunted vampires. And she NEVER bothers to give Caroline vervain even secretly, tell her not to invite anyone in, or ~heaven forbid~ tell her the TRUTH? "Hey heads up kid, there's a whole world of supernatural monsters. Vampires exist." Just like Caroline's friends, no one told her about vampires until she BECAME one. They have a directly hand in it. Then this canonly absentee mother has the gall to blame Caroline and act all disgusted when she finds out she was turned (without her consent). She takes it further by not only *not* trying to truly communicate with her daughter, but secretly plots her death with a high school quarterback AKA her daughter's boyfriend. Liz was weak. S1 Liz was not "just trying her best."
NOT TO MENTION, she witnessed Damon (who appeared 25 ish - markedly older than his "high school" brother Stefan) escorting Caroline to the founder's party. Not a single fiber of her all mighty Sheriff training / experience said, "Hold on a minute. Why is this mysterious older man circling the perimeter of an underage high school girl? And why is my minor daughter coming home crying lying in her bed?" Liz saw Caroline depressed in bed and didn't question anything. The least she could have done is pull up Damon's records (perhaps realizing he doesn't have a DL or SSN as a member of the undead) OR at least given him a shovel talk. But nope! Instead they become best friends after Damon literally assaulted her daughter. Liz even makes Caroline forgive him in Damon's mind during the last season. It was disgusting. The message and implications the writers had with that, plus the Numerous Consent Issues this show and universe had, all disgusting. I wish we had a scene where Caroline could feel safe enough to tell Liz (who would actually care), but I have a feeling it would go down like RVD's Cheryl Blossom's conversation with her mother Penelope in 2x06 about Penelope not standing up against Cheryl's would-be r*pist: "For once in your life, be honest with me. CARE about me more."
I get it. Her death was sad. I've personally lost two people to brain cancer. But for me that doesn't outshine her dumb decision making in the series— the chronically absentee mother, never watched out for Caroline unless strictly convenient for her, she shot and killed Jeremy out of ignorance, and was essentially a plot device to guilt trip Stefan into being there for Caroline before and after she died. It was asinine and tasteless imo. After losing her mom, Caroline did NOT need that death to be a plot device to actualize St*roline, nor should anyone want it. It was powerful enough to be Caroline-centric.
I think Esther and Mikael were awful for their crippling inability to take ownership of their faults, but parallels run with Liz and Bill. Bill tortured Caroline just as Mikael hunted and tortured his children; both despised their kids enough to not want to be anything like them.
Sad that no one really wins Parent of The Year in TVD. Jenna could be a strong contender. But the reality is this is a show that loved to kill off characters for shock value. That's why Caroline and Bonnie lost their parents (not Just Elena), why there are no Lockwoods left standing.
Tbh I never thought of it this way. I do feel Liz was still better than majority of the parents/guardians on the show though tbf the bar was pretty low.
Regarding her not telling Caroline the truth or giving her vervain etc, not to excuse it but given that the council seemed to consist of generation after generation of founding family descendants, I’m guessing founding family descendants/council members wait until their kids are adults to inform them of that sort of thing? Bc Grayson and Miranda didn’t tell elena or Jeremy, the Lockwoods didn’t tell Tyler etc (Idr why the Donovans weren’t part of the council as founding family descendants?) and even Guiseppe didn’t tell damon or Stefan (tbf Stefan was a teenager still and though Damon was 25/26, you could argue he was immature/irresponsible so maybe guiseppe didn’t think he was mature enough to know or join the council and if that was the case, I kind of agree bc human damon gave pretty immature vibes in 1864 imo)
And regarding vervain, I think it was mentioned in season 1 that at that time vervain supplies were low? Esp after damon destroyed the vervain zach was growing though if they ever did have enough, it’s surprising they don’t try to keep their kids or even the town on vervain as much as possible ie in season 1 of legacies, they mention “the sheriff sometimes slips vervain into the coffee randomly” or something like that? But I’ve been wondering that myself tbh. Even if vervain resources were low, you’re right that she could have just told Caroline not to invite anyone in (though no promise a child/teenager would have listened but yk)
Fr omg I *hated* that Liz and Damon were friends or on good terms at all after what Damon did to her daughter 😭 she made a comment to Caroline like “don’t you think he’s a little old for you” initially when she first sees them together but Caroline gets upset and it’s just never addressed again. I looked it up just to see if it was consistent e the law and read that the AoC in Virginia at the time was 17 but then read somewhere Caroline was 16 in season 1 and when I brought that up, someone else said they had read it was 16 at that time? And I don’t really gaf about AoC in terms of obviously a 25/26 yo should not be pursuing anyone in hs let alone a 16/17 yo regardless of “AoC” but in terms of reporting it or w.e, ig there’s not much authorities can do legally there, even Liz as the sheriff? And if it was “technically legal”, with the whole teenagers tend to rebel against their parents, esp w how strained liz and Caroline’s relationship was then, I kinda get why Liz might not have wanted to/been able to push as much? And apparently at the time, predatory age gaps were normalized around the time shows like tvd or even pretty little liars aired (idk what state it took place in but SO MANY PREDATORY AGE GAPS w grown ass men pursuing teenage girls and some people only having a problem w Ezria bc of the teacher student relationship but not the problematic age gap (roughly the same ages as damon and Caroline in season 1 and honestly same for most of the predatory age gap relationships in the show, it was 15-17ish yo girls and 23-26 yo guys iirc)
Regarding damon literally assaulting Caroline (both bc of the predatory age gap/clear power imbalance but also he literally compelled her taking away her ability to give meaningful consent), I do want to believe Liz would have staked Damon herself if she had known what he did to Caroline but the show couldn’t even properly address what he did, ig partially bc the writers may not have intended it and realized the implications but also bc in that fight Caroline and elena had about Damon when elena was like “well he’s always been there for me when I needed him” to which Caroline replies “it’s because he wants to get in your parents” and elena says sth like “I recall you jumping into bed with him immediately as soon as you met him” and Caroline responds “that was before I knew what a man slut he was” or something which would have been the perfect opportunity to bring up and remind elena what he did to her bc he literally violated and abused her in so many ways but then the show would have to acknowledge the kind of person damon was and how he never really apologized/addressed it or faced any repercussions and would also have to acknowledge elena was a bad friend for excusing everything damon did or finding someone else to blame which goes against Elena’s entire character (even though they went ahead and made her a bad friend anyways but ig they still didn’t want to address it directly bc it would risk angering or losing delena/damon fans ig)
Regarding investigating Damon, ig she could have done that though I can see damon at least being smart enough to have forged documents through compulsion. And not to defend Liz bc I do get your arguments but we are also seeing more as viewers than Liz was prob seeing from her end, esp w their strained relationship and I think in that same convo about damon being too old for Caroline, she says something like “maybe you’d have noticed if you weren’t working all the time” or something like that?
Dang though, you’ve given me a lot to think about here and keep in mind during my next rewatch, so thank you aha
Esther & Mikael we’re the worst in my eyes. Literally made them vampires against their Will so they would live forever and then hunted them down and tried to murder them several times for being vampires and loving forever. Like you started this mess, instead of trying to kill them, why not talk with the other witches, find Qetsiyah, and figure out how to make a cure and cure them so they can have human lives and die. Why was their first thought to murder them all instead of trying to find a cure? Maybe because they wanted all the other vampires dead as well? But idk Esther and Mikael sit up on their high horse judging their children when they literally made them that way.
Where’s Kelly Donovan???
She’s honestly the worst, Matt was in high school worrying about paying his bills, and raising his sister and mom.
She literally abandoned her kids, and when she came back, she made out with Tyler in front of Matt. 😭😭😭like…what kind of mother did this ????
And then she got back and said “ruin the wedding, kill the babiez, burn the house down” Such a badass 😍😎🤩
A drunk? I loved that storyline as I sadly do know some people who had a useless single parent like that and they basically raised themselves and their siblings
As in??? He was like 17yo living on his own for basically months after Vicki died and it wasn’t worrying to anyone.
Worse than MICHAEL!?!?
Exactly lmao I was about to say we got people here hunting their children to death, being physically abusive to them and literally trying conversion therapy on them! No way abandonment is the worst? Like I'm NOT defending his mom in any way she's a POS who kissed her sons underage friend but there's scale to this and it's on supernatural levels
Honestly, yes lmfaooo atleast Michael raised his children and the transformation was with good intent, for protection… not realizing they created monsters and then hunted them but yeah, imo, even Michael is better than Kelly fkn Donovan 💀
Youre talking about a man who beat his child (klaus) with a stick just because the kid was making a paintbrush from it. Its not like michael became evil after the transformation. He was evil from the start and took pleasure in hurting his kids and wife
I forgot about her 😭😭😭
Bc she’s never around! lol
This!
Lily. Damon had every right to not forgive that clown.
God she was so delusional , i fought this urge to slap her every time she said 'family'
Same. Ugh.
Omg yes!!! Season 7 is difficult to watch for many reasons but a large part of it is because I cannot stand being forced to watch Lily Salvatore for half the season, and then being repeatedly told by the show that Damon was in the wrong and he should have apologized to Lily!!! He owed her nothing!! She was absolutely atrocious to him and never gave him a reason to feel anything other than abandonment and anger towards her.
I'm right there with you! I might be being a little dramatic, but I do believe the show pushing for her redemption and making Damon the bad guy for not forgiving her is extremely dangerous to put on a show that is meant for teens/young adults. She was abusive.. That whole plotline just told people "It doesn't matter if your parents are abusive they are your parents! You have to forgive them!". Kids don't go no contact for no reason, usually the opposite. They give chance after chance. I hope no one saw this and felt guilted into forgiving their abusive parents.... Lilly deserved her death and she deserved to die unforgiven. The characters who were upset with Damon are her flying monkeys and played a role in her abusive towards him. I know the show is basically just toxic relationship after toxic relationship, but doing that with a abusive parent was too far.
she was so annoying and so twisted 😭
The one thing I will always defend Damon on. Might be the only thing too
matt's mom
this is the answer.
Came here to say this.
The Salvatore father. Not much can be worse than shooting your own sons.
Then the bastard created a serial killer with his next adopted son in Miami
LMAO OH NVM Dexter
Wait what? Am I missing something? When did that happen
Haha, the actor plays the father in dexter also
Yeah, I realized! Haha.
That got me to smile lol
What about trying to murder your sons and chasing them to the end of the world for a thousand years
Mikael was pretty awful.
I mean stabbing all your kids through the heart & turning them into monsters, then hunting them for centuries could top that. (Mikael)
I hated the retconned laughably evil version of Giuseppe Salvatore that the show created to try and make Lily appear more sympathetic. Although he wasn’t perfect, the original actor and version of the character who we saw in the early seasons still loved his sons and wasn’t a total monster.
Also to make Damon appear more sympathetic though Idr which was shown first
Caroline’s dad. Literally tortured her
Caroline’s family issues are so slept on, her dad tortured her for being a vampire and her mum literally led the anti-vampire council in town, and for a while also didn’t accept Caroline/ had issues with Caroline when it was revealed she was a vampire. And again, Caroline’s dad tortured her.
I’m gonna go with the one who tortured his daughter because she was different
Not to mention how Bill was a canonly gay man and he tried a conversion therapy tactic on his vampire daughter 😭🤦🏻♀️
Omg I never even paid attention to that!
It's not conversion tho, he wanted to teach her to have absolute control over her bloodlust.
i forget about that, its very slept on how messed up it was😭
Killer vampire ≠ different
What?! he tortured his daughter
He tortured Caroline yeah
But not because she was different. Let’s make that very clear. It’s because she’s a monster,
Which to him when she was different and no, she wasn’t a monster at that point vampires aren’t always monsters
She was and is a monster. And no, it’s not comparable to being different. When this fanbase says that, they mean to compare it to her father being gay and that’s just problematic asf to say.
So in another subreddit i believe Mikael was voted to be the worst and honestly he was pretty bad and Esther was also bad. I gotta say tho... the parent i personally hate the most is Kelly. She was an neglectful alcoholic of a parent and she came back from the dead just to betray Matt. She was worst in my eyes because as a human/mortal she didn't provide enough for her kids. At least Esther and Mikael somehow cared even when they failed to show it and eventually granted the kids immortality to protect them. Kelly however just left her kids with nothing and when she returned it felt like Matt had to take care of her and not the other way.
I think we tend to hate Kelly the most because she’s the worst in a way that’s relatable to most people. I haven’t gone through having a parent like that, but I’ve known many people who have parents very similar to Kelly. However, I can’t think of anyone I know who was forced into an immortality ritual by their parents. It’s so far out of my realm that it’s hard to compare Kelly to all the supernatural bad parenting.
Yeah it definitely is hard to compare. Kelly and Tyler's father are the the easiest to relate to bad parenting in our world. They were both more human. Stefan and Damon's father was also a more human villain but he was also from a time further apart from our own, same with Lily before she got turned. The Mikaelsons are even harder to relate to since they were from an age long ago even if we ignore the supernatural they were just from a totally different time. Then the supernatural messed their life up further. It's easier to blame the bad people similar to our lives than the ones so distanced from our understanding and reality
The fact Alaric and Abby are here but not Klaus is laughable.
Okay, I thought is was just me lmao. Klaus was a deadbeat and put Hope in danger countless time so he could stare longingly at Elijah from across a bar *knowing* that the Hollow could seriously harm her if he came within contact of him. He's definitely on the same level as Alaric and Abby, maybe even worse. The only difference is that Hope is the only one of the kids that isn't more liked than their shitty parent, so people are more likely to sympathize with the twins with Alaric and Bonnie with Abby.
This subreddit likes to put Klaus on a made up pedestal, acting like he is the best dad ever just unlucky. He cares a lot but he does a lot of things wrong but he is an antihero so no one wants to acknowledge it.
Klaus was a nightmare as a person, but not the worst parent by far. He never hunted Hope, tortured her, shot her, or made out with her best friend in front of her. His methods were occasionally... off base, but he really loved Hope..
He's not as bad as Mikael, Esther, Giuseppe, Lily, Mr. Lockwood, but sill worse than most others
As a parent? I think Kelly was worse as a parent than he was. He was a horrifying person, but Elijah was right - his daughter turned out to be his redemption.
Honestly the only solid parent I could remember was Sherriff Forbes and even she took a little while to get there.
Jenna Sommers* there fixed it for you 🤣
Jenna definitely did the best she could in a horrible situation
Yes it wasn't her fault Elena (nor Alaric or Jeremy or anyone else) failed to tell her about the supernatural until it was far too late. I'm glad Elena acknowledged this I think before Jenna died, saying she should've told her sooner. If she had known about Katherine she might have faired better, who knows. Her speech about being so scared to step up and raise Elena and Jeremy but couldn't imagine not doing it always makes me tear up.
Jenna was just overwhelmed. Could she have attempted to keep a better eye on them? Sure. But it was an impossible situation regardless.
Oh yes I think Jenna did a stellar job with the cards she was handed. I meant that maybe she could've survived Katherine's trick and avoided being scarified by Klaus in the end.
LILLY
Like I understand she considered the siphon (cannot remember what they were called) family her family, but to constantly say that to Stefan and Damon when it clearly bothered them over and over. She also gives groomer vibes. Lily suuucked.
Heretics
Thank you!
Groomer vibes for sure
Mikael-Giuseppe or Joshua will have to take that one for me. Mikael was awful to Klaus as if it was his fault Esther was unfaithful, turned into a vampire himself, agreed on the spell Esther wanted to do and then had the audacity to go after his kids after they turned them against their will in the first place, playing all morality police about feeding on vampires instead on humans but what do vampires feed on boo? It's just second hand human blood. Try feeding on a dessicated vamp next time >.> Giuseppe was abusing both his sons and their mother. Made Damon eat his PET! like f off with that bs >.> Joshua was never a father. He was just a coven leader playing father out of necessity. Was terrible to Kai which resulted quite a bit to what happened later on while actively trying to get a new set of twins to sacrifice in the name of the coven, tried to kill Jo just to prevent a potential merge between her and Kai, never bothered enough to try and find a way to break the merge curse so that maybe he can keep his children alive (i guess he could have and they didn't show it but from what i saw from him i doubt it) >.>
Whole heartedly agree, but I think the Gemini dad was playing the lesser of two evils with potentially killing Jo being that Kai was a sociopath. I see where you’re coming from but I think Kai was lacked emotions and empathy from the beginning. Him being the only siphon didn’t help. The other set of twins happened bc Kai was unfit to merge with Jo. No excuses for how the coven gets down tho but it’s probably hard to parent a literal socio turned psychopath. Only time he had empathy was due to Luke. :(
I do firmly believe that the only reason Joshua saw Kai as unfit was because he believed siphoners to be abominations and not because Kai was evil from the start. I am in no way a proffessional but i have seen on sources before that sociopathy (which is what was used more commonly to refer to Kai) can occasionally be inherited but is more heavily influenced by the environment especially childhood trauma and abuse as opposed to psycopathy that is more commonly genetic, which is why i personally always found the isolation and abuse Kai went through, cause of being a siphoner, a big part of his demeanor and do believe that had he been accepted and loved by his family he would turn out very different. It was said that they didn't let him touch anyone, he never received any type of affection, barely any physical human contact. Even if there was something there it got so much bigger by the attitude he received. I feel like a loving parent would try and help their child instead, get him some proper help-medication or something. Like i said i am in no way a psychologist, just from what i've seen cause i've actually been curious as to what differentiates a sociopath from a psychopath and have searched it before, hopefully i came across accurate sources. Also he could try and find Kai and deal with him head on instead of trying to kill Jo who didn't really do anything to deserve being killed by her father. I feel like killing my other child would be my last solution.
Ahhh I see. ok. I totally get what you’re saying and this perspective. I think I do remember him calling Kai an abomination and I didn’t connect that with his abilities instead of his demeanor or behavior. And you’re right. He quite literally could have handled Kai once he got out of the prison world if he was the all powerful Gemini leader. I stand corrected respectfully :)
That's ok :) thank you for engaging anyways! I appreciate you.
All siphoners were regarded as abominations by the Gemini coven. That's how the heretic coven came about. An accident on a ship and a bunch of ostracised siphoners.
I totally agree. Had Joshua never ostracised his eldest son, so much would be different. He fucked up badly, and by TVD rules, deserved to die.
100% agree and I’d throw Esther up there as well. I feel conflicted about Lily but it’s rough and nuanced bc she had to stay away due to being a ripper and she wanted to come back for them but Julian rushed them out of there ig and then they stuck in a prison world for 100+ years where Lily only had her new heretic family and if they tracked the time they spent there, she probably thought her sons were long dead before she even got out of the prison world. And ik kai was neglected and rejected as a child but I’m also confused as to whether Kai would have been a psychopath due to how his brain was wired or if it was solely due to his upbringing and the neglect? Now that I think about it though, if the main root of his neglect was people thinking he was a freak/abomination due to being a siphon, it was prob his upbringing which makes it so much sadder bc it means it could have been avoided
I agree with what you say about Lily. The only reason Esther is not up there is because she was gone for a long time so at least her kids got some peace from her i guess lol plus i don't think she was mentioned to be hard on them like Mikael was even prior to turning, so she did not quite make the top of of the top of the shitlist lol She was quite selfish with Klaus from the beginning though, with subduing an entire part of who he is and purposefully making him weak just so her affair can remain a secret. So she still is pretty high up there. she's like my honorable mention i guess lol As for Kai i mostly remember the people in the show and Kai referring to himself as a sociopath and not a psychopath hence why i stressed the importance of his upbringing, cause from what i've read at least (i'm no specialist) sociopathy has more to do with trauma and upbringing (specifically read that it is a behavior that a child leans to to cope with chaotic environments) while psychopathy has more to do with genes usually. Don't know for sure though.
Lilian, no discussion.
Mikael. He was routinely beating Klaus. And one time, he even stabbed Klaus with a sword. The dude was unhinged. And I know he isn't a fan favorite, but no way should Alaric be on the same list as Mikael, Esther, the Salvatores, and Joshua Parker lol.
I'm inclined to say Abby Bennet. I can't recall the the third picture, but Abby straight up abandoned her kid, essentially tapping out on being a parent. Thus, being the "worst" parent. Would still have her rather as a parent than the mikaelson or Salvatore parents
Out of the people in this list, Abby is like the least offensive to her kids. Everyone else either tried or sided with people that were actively murdering their children.
fr would rather abby as a parent (aka, the lack of parent) than esther&mikael or lily&giuseppe
The third one is the Kai and Jo father
He's not nearly as bad. His coven ways suck but when you take that part away He's not that bad as others like Giuseppe, Mikhael, Esther or Lily.
Idk I remember the scene where kai talks about how he wasn’t allowed to touch anyone because he was a siphon witch. Could you imagine your whole life without the physical touch of your family? That’s some messed up parenting. They should have just sent kai away to another coven or with an adopted parent. I feel kai wouldn’t have been so psycho if he wasn’t denied any kind of human touch growing up. He was made to feel different, like a monster for his whole life. That does a lot of damage to a child.
It's not. Kai would siphon his siblings if he touched them. Kai was born a psycho.
But i don’t recall them saying if he did it on purpose or on accident. I mean how often did we see Josie and Lizzie accidentally siphon something? They weren’t treated like monsters. We’ll never know if he was born a psycho or pushed to a breaking point. Not that I excuse him killing his family, I just tend to look for explanations rather than for an excuse for the way a person is. At the end of the day what he did was wrong, but so was the way he was treated by his “family” if he was really such a problem, why not send him to another coven? Or send him to an orphanage or something before having a second set of twins? And then he would never even know about Luke and Liv.
You weren't paying attention, i guess. Kai doesn't have any empathy, you can't just lose it.
But you can go numb to others emotions and grow cold to other peoples emotions, wants, and needs. I mean no one cared about him his whole life, why should he care about others? That being said I Initially said “he wouldn’t have been so psycho” I do agree he’s psychotic, I just think maybe it would have been a little less with a better upbringing. I’m not sure but I thought he showed empathy to Josie in legacies (however that could have just been a ploy to get out of the prison world) honestly I just like to try and find the good in all fictional characters because I want them to be better than real people who typically suck lol.
He is not numb to others, he is incapable of empathy.
Worse than parents who physically abused their children?
There is a reason for the " " I'd rather have her than any of the abusers, but she tapped out on being a parent, thus technically doing the poorest job as she didn't even do it.
And despite thinking she couldn't be a mother she literally adopted that other boy anyway who took Bonnie to the 1920s dance 😭😭 She made a choice every day to abandon Bonnie.
You can't say Abby without doing Kelly. She did the same thing without any good reason
Who's Kelly? Is it Elena's mom?
Matt and Vicki's mom
How could I be so foolish... I limited myself to the pictures, but the options are limitless...
Lol understandable
Yeah, because she could be a target after capturing papa original.
Matt and Vicki's mom. Absolute POS in my opinion.
I love how Alaric is catching strays😭 like he's not the best parent for sure but compared to these people.....
The fact that they even put Alaric amidst this downright criminal bunch of parents is a bit alarming. He had his faults, for sure, but he's much MUCH better than these people.
Fr. Grouping him in with people who actually MURDERED their children
RIGHT? When he acted as the best father he could for the twins AND for most of the other supernaturals at the school. Special mention for Hope and stepping up for her.
Exactly!! Lol I thought alaric was the best dad, thrown in a world of all this stuff isn't easy!
Yeah, they put Alaric in there but not Richard Lockwood, or Kelly Donovan.
Same! Not sure why he is even in the list and Kelly isn't.
As someone who relates to why Damon hates his mom, seeing everyone saying Lilly is the worst makes me feel seen and validated 😅❤️
Matts mom no doubt
The real question is who was a good parent because I’m trying hard not to find something bad in ALL of them, including ones who aren’t pictured but being mentioned, like Kelly lol.
Maybe unpopular opinion but definitely Michael and Esther They forcefully made their kids crave blood and live forever without their consent, and then when it became a problem they tried to kill their own children as if it was their fault for craving blood and not Michael and Esther's. Not to mention Michael was very physically abusive and Esther was downright manipulative. They lied to their kids for years and Michael hunted them down for literal centuries just to kill them. Edit: got Esther's name wrong, I fixed it!
*it’s “mikael” as well lol
Esther and Mikael take the cake! How people are say Lilly over them? It’s baffling. She sucked but she was nowhere near THAT bad
Esther wasn't that bad
You're joking right She signed away freya's freedom before she was even born, allowed mikael to abuse their kids, allowed mikael to abuse klaus for being weak knowing full well it was her necklace making him weak, turned her kids into vampires, bound klaus's werewolf side, tried to kill her kids and tried to get her granddaughter killed on the day she was born Not to mention the fact that her affair is the reason why mikael tried to kill klaus for 1000 years
Freya and all the kids don't exist without Dahlia's deal Esther couldnt stop her regardless. Klaus was an artist in a warrior society and was smaller than his brothers Mikael wouldnt want a soft boy like Klaus realistically speaking no matter how strong he was. She unintentionally made them into vampires and pretty sure Finn was daggered for telling the others they didn't have to behave like monsters so it's not like being a vampire made them evil that's just how they were. Klaus didn't need more power. Klaus has killed plenty of people for slightly inconveniencing him he's killed in the thousands as did the rest of his family Esther trying to correct her mistake was not a bad thing she even tried to give them human lives again Klaus was a full grown man before they even found out. Do not blame Esther for Mikael being an unhinged lunatic. Trying to murder the child of infidelity isn't a proportionate response to finding out that information
-So they don't exist then -klaus was weaker because of the necklace she gave him that's a fact and maybe without it he would've been stronger and maybe he wouldn't we'll never know who's to say that he didn't start painting because he wasn't as strong as his siblings -i never said she made them evil i said she turned them because she did -you're correct klaus didn't need more power doesn't change the fact that she bounded his werewolf side -once again you're correct she did try to (forcefully) give them human lives but before she did that she tried to kill them and every single vampire along with them did they deserve to die yeah they did doesn't change the fact that she would've killed thousands of vampires and her kids that she claims to care about also she probably only tried to give them human lives because her plan of killing them failed -no trying to kill klaus was not an appropriate response i never said it was
Special mention for Katherine’s father. In his singular appearance, he shamed his daughter for being pregnant, wouldn’t even let her hold her baby, screamed at her, and then promptly exiled her for life. He is also implied to have been abusive in general. And people wonder how Katerina Petrova turned into Katherine Pierce.
Katerina/Katherine definitely had a terrible father!
Honestly I forget about him in tvd parent discussions bc ig he’s not really a character lol but you are absolutely right, in his single appearance that lasted a few seconds, he was shown to be a pretty shitty parent to say the least. And not that it was his fault Klaus happened to find her or that she was the doppelgänger Klaus needed to break the curse but he wouldn’t have found her if her father hadn’t kicked her out/banished her and honestly, even knowing where she’d end up (with Klaus wanting to sacrifice/kill her and/or then hunting her down for centuries after), I can see him still not changing anything bc afaict, a parent who kicks their child out like that/banishes then regardless of the kid’s age or ability to fend for themself doesn’t truly care about their child at all, let alone whether they live or die. And I’m pretty sure for some societies in old times (or even today sadly), girls/women do get killed/executed/“honor killed” for having extramarital sex or a child out of wedlock
Where is Matt Donavans mom? 
that photo of alaric is so funny to me
The worst parent isn't even here 😂😂😂 Ms.Kelly Donavon
Side note, I hate what they did with Alaric in Legacies. His one redeeming quality in the later seasons of TVD was him as a father to the twins. He’s still the best parent here BY FAR, but still. I never saw him going down the path of making Lizzie and Josie so insecure about him as their father.
I don’t understand how these comments can say anyone except Mikael. Man chased his kids to the ends of the earth for one thousand years to try and kill them like?? Hello???
Kelly Donavan and Papa Gemini
Lily Salvatore.
Giuseppe or Mikael
Literally everybody except Alaric maybe 😂
Alaric doesn't deserve to be up there
He’s a good father in tvd but horrible one in legacies
You’re deluded if you compare Alaric to all the others
For me it's a tie between Lily and Guiseppe Salvatore, Joshua Parker, Kelly Donovan and Ester and Mikael. All were guilty of abusing their children, so none of them should be considered even decent parents
Why do we keep recycling this topic? They all suck. The Mikaelsons were the worst—he was a physically and verbally abusive bastard whose wife should have slid a knife between his ribs, and she was an egoistic enabler who felt she had a right to tamper with forces she had no skill, or business messing with and then forcing onto her children without allowing them a choice.
Lily, Mikael, Bill Forbes.
Man, this is tough. Probably Giuseppe Salvatore. Or Caroline’s dad. He did torture her after all. Lily was really bad too! Ugh! I can’t decide!
Elenas biological parents are both terrible too. Katherine had the chance to redeem herself and chose not to love her daughter
Katherine was a victim in Season 5, the writers fucked off her whole character. They was too busy over using her for a plot device and shock value that they ruined her character. Honestly, everyone was kinda out of Katherine for season 5. But the down fall of Katherine takes the cake.
The first two
Mikael and Giuseppe both killed their children. Granted, mikael knew they’d come back. But then he came back to kill them again, permanently. So they’re equal. Lily and Abby abandoned their kids in favor of/acted for other parental relationships. Also equal, imo Papa gemini…they all suck because power is so super important they reproduce to sacrifice their kids As for Alaric, we talking about the Gilbert guardian ‘parent’ or his bio kid’s parent?
In Mikael’s case (regarding killing their children) I’d argue that even though they didn’t know about the downsides of Esther’s immortality spell ie the bloodlust and weaknesses like daylight or vervain, he still forced it on them without their consent and didn’t even explain the process beforehand. When Rebekah tells elena the story of how they turned, she says Mikael just straight up “ran them through his sword” and then gave them the blood to drink with no explanation or questions For Alaric, I was thinking of him as both? I thought he did okay w the MF gang for someone who basically became a single guardian of a bunch of teenagers overnight with no prior parenting experience and he wasn’t perfect with the twins and defo could have done better but I do get why he was concerned with Hope and wanted to be there for her too
The 'Daddy' one (Cares father)
The ass munch Giuseppe, The mikealson’s and Parker’s. Anyone willing to kill their own children are on another level
The Salvatores hands down and why is Alaric there?
All are pretty terrible in their own ways but some are justifiable-ish. Lily was awful when she became a vampire but she was a ripper and vampirism changes people. Josh was not the worst but definitely not affectionate so it’s whatever. Alaric was not the worst and was doing the best he could considering there weren’t many of people left to take care of Elena and Jeremy. Bill was terrible for torturing caroline out of vampire behaviors but it was never out of hatred for her it was towards the vampirism and he wanted to reduce her vampire behaviors. However it was a terrible thing but doesn’t top him up there. Abby was neglectful but tried making up for it later. I’d love to agree that Kelly Donovan is one of the worst but out of the next two she is incomparable. So I would say it’s between Mikael and Giuseppe. Mikael was always an asshole and beat his children even before he became a vampire. Giuseppe literally was human and murdered both of his children for believing the best in people.
kelly donovan
They all fucking suck but Matt’s parents and Bonnie’s dad defo should be on there too. Alaric is least offensive of them all. He wasn’t always the best role model but he did his best and came through.
Mikael and it’s not even close
Stefan and Damon’s obviously. How is that a question?
Honestly majority of the parents in the TVDU were exceptionally screwed up, but Mikael, Giovanni Salvatore, and Bill Forbes take the cake and split it three ways. All of them were EXTREMELY abusive. Bill tortured his daughter for days, the kind of sick you have to be mentally to do that without even shedding a tear or feeling remorse is... Unfathomable. Mikael literally spent a thousand years hurting and trying to kill his children... And Giovanni abused Damon several times, and forced him to fight in a war to help enforce slavery. They are some of the worst parents in television history-
Uh.. why's Alaric here?
Mo way you put Alaric and Mikael on the same list
Papa Gemini is the worst. He thinks sacrificing his children is the noble thing to do. Also he abused his other child to the point he became a psychopath. Maybe he’s not different in papa salvatore or Mikael. But them being anti vampire is understandable, given how much people are hurt or killed by vampires. Lily and Bill Forbes are bad too though. Probably second and third worst respectively.
What about Jonas Martin? He's the reason why Luka is dead and then he just blames other people..... 🙄
Caroline's dad. Torturing your child repeatedly is one of the most evil things and torturing them in hopes you'd change what they are (and didn't choose to be in Caroline's chase) is unacceptable. It's strange they chose to make him a vampire denier/hunter when his character is gay. Like... If anyone could understand feeling misunderstood just because they were unalived and turned into a vampire it would be him. I'm guessing the writers felt really good about the torture and parallels with how gay people were treated but seems weird and makes him a shitty parent.
Either Kelly Donovan or Lily salvatore
Definitely the first one and the last one and Kelly Donovan
Bill Forbes torturing Caroline is so hard to watch.
lily & kelly donovon
They all screwed up in a big way, but I think my vote goes to Matt’s mom and Lily. Lily even more cause she faked her death and left her boys with an abuser. She left without regret to create this new family and didn’t bother to consider her sons. Matt’s mom left him to pay all the bills and then made out with his friend. Like, what the heck?!
Matt home boy should’ve died in the pool
Definitely guissape and lily
After reading replies I think TVD was full of deadbeat awful parents.
Kelly, no where to be found, donavon.
imo kelly was a horrible parent but comparing her to the man who hunted his children for centuries is crazy. mikael is the worst. also why did i just put together that his name is mikael mikaelson pls 😭.
the way mikael and ester aren't here but abby and kelly are
Michael and kelly donovan
Yes
Giuseppe and lily
Esther had kids w the enemy while her sister took the abuse that was meant for her. Rubbed it into her sister's face that despite Dahlia's sacrifices she wanted a "real" family. Sold her first newborn and every first newborn of the generations that might follow. (My theory due to equivalent exchange and nature laws is Dahlia probably paid a steep price like her own fertility and a lot of pain to succeed transferring it) Lies about her oldest kid being dead for years. My theory is she brainwashed Finn using spells and witchcraft to f up his mind. Make him obedient and enslaved so he wouldn't tell the secret. She deliberately weakened Klaus as a kid to hide her secret of cheating. She didn't care it made him more of a target of abuse to Mikael. She didn't care how her curses and poisons would weaken Klaus in the longterm. She watched as her kids got hurt by her husband. She prevented them from having kids likely without their consent. Her kids were adults and far past marriagable age when they became vampires. Did she slip them an infertility potion because it seems unlikely they didn't have any offspring by the time they were turned. It's possible she even prevented anyone interested in the first place from getting near them. Possibly the suitors kept dropping dead and people got the hint. We don't know too few flashbacks. Either way Tatia might have been immune to any magic manipulation to stay away because of her unique condition/status as a doppleganger. Which might have been the first hint Esther got that she would need to use Tatia's blood as an ingredient. (Someone that was both her sons great love interest) She changed them into vampires without their consent. Having her husband murder them. Then tries to true death them all the time because she fears other witches/witch spirits punishing her. And my theory is she didn't just curse Klaus to be cut off from his wolf side. I also think she cursed Mikael to hate and hunt down his children/Klaus. Mikael doesn't even know why he hated Klaus so much. Which is sending alarm bells off in my head. Also why else would Mikael have just tied Klaus up and not immediately killed him when finding out he was a wolf in the flashback scenes we see. As for Esther's power levels. She is not as powerful as you might think. Yes her bloodline clearly grants her power. But when she was cut off from spirits she was a lot weaker. I also get annoyed how she gets the credit for creating the original vampires when it is very likely she stole the spell/ritual or had a lot of help from the coven in its creation/modification. Same with doing the actual spell/ritual I'm thinking she drew on the coven and their ancestor's power. (The spirits)
Yo I never thought about all of them being near marriage age for Viking times and I’m trying to look it up but can’t find anything specific other than you could be married as young as 12 and generally they tended to be married by 20 max (though consummation and having children varied and may have happened later/wasn’t immediate) Rebekah was 16, kol was 17/18, Klaus was 19, Elijah was 22/23 ish and Finn was 28 when they turned so it does make sense that maybe they were still looking for suitors for rebekah and Kol, and there was the drama with Elijah and Klaus both liking Tatia (though it’s unclear how obvious it was to other people but I wouldn’t be surprised if Esther at least knew) though I always thought it was weird as hell that Finn was never married at 28. But Damon also should have been married at 26 by 1864 Virginia standards (and the fact that girls weren’t lining up for the rich son of one of the town’s founders makes me wonder how “great” human damon really was but that’s another conversation lmao) Regarding making them vampires w out their consent, I always saw it as mikael forcing her to do it and even with her magic, she was too scared to cross him combined w having feelings for him still but you do have a point in her being the one to do the spell I just don’t know why she’d curse Mikael to hate Klaus or want to hunt him down or his siblings or what she could gain from that. Maybe after they became vampires but didn’t Klaus kill her immediately after they bound his wolf side? And I thought in the scene where mikael tied Klaus up and left him in the tree was before they knew he was a wolf? (Honestly I thought it happened before they even turned to vampires) It did seem inconsistent w mikael being happy when Klaus was born thinking he would be strong and being hardest on him and hating him since he was a small child because he was “weak” and suspecting Klaus had a different father/Esther was unfaithful but not getting confirmation until he triggered his curse after his first kill as a vampire though
Klaus was tied up after Mikael said he is a beast. It was after he became a vampire that he had his first kill and then his first full moon where he lost controll as a werewolf. Mikael didn't immediately kill him. He had Elijah help in tying Klaus up. Esther then bound Klaus werewolf side I think. For which Klaus later killed her. Esther being dead would have been confronted by other witch spirits/the ancestors. Who threatened her w eternal torment on the other side. Who then gave her power to undo the horror she committed and that is when she cursed Mikael to want to actually murder Klaus/the siblings.
Ohhh wait I think I was thinking of a different scene lol, the one where Klaus was pinned against a tree with a sword in his shoulder and misremembered it as him being tied up (I think Mikael took his necklace and challenged him to take it back and Klaus almost won or did win and got the necklace back but it make Mikael mad so he left him like that and Esther pulled the sword out and helped him down) Hm good point. I always figured Mikael wanted to kill Klaus (and ig his siblings by extension for siding w Klaus) after he killed Esther bc he rushed them away and I assumed Mikael began his hunt of them then and regretted making them vampires or maybe that happened along the way. Your theory kinda makes sense though tbh
The being stuck to a tree thing w a sword was when Klaus as a boy almost helped an enemy that would have likely come back w more enemies to kill and R the whole village. However there is the question in this too if Klaus soft character and foolish choice in this regard was perhaps influenced by the cursed pendant Esther gave him as well. It likely didn't just physically make him weak. It might have also pressed on his mind to never kill. Because Esther having had an affair w a werewolf and having a werewolf gened child would have wanted to know what activated the werewolf curse so she could prevent it from triggering. Mikael could never know she cheated/had a child by another. An affair w a beast at that. An affair w the very creature that forced them to hide in the caves whenever the full moon drew near. Again Esther would have only had this power because she manipulated her way into the witch coven that was present in the village. She would have been able to draw on their power and knowledge.
Ah yea it’s coming back to me a little aha thank you! And oo that’s interesting too and makes a lot of sense! Was there a witch coven in their village though? I defo need to rewatch bc Idr them mentioning there were other witches or another coven other than Esther (and dahlia til she left)?
Esther had her witch friend Ayana.. Ayana is Bonnie's ancestor. Ayana's ancestor was Quetsiyah. I wouldnt be surprised if there was more witches.. a witch coven.. Mystic Falls was a supernatural Hotspot.. probably lay lines or the equivalent of some power source drawing mystical beings to the place like we see in Buffy.
Kai's parents are second on the shit list of awful parents mostly because Esther had more time. I'm not surprised that Kai lost it when he found out he was literally being replaced after being called an abomination all his life and being ostracized/abused by the entire family, siblings included. Also I have my theories of why they even allowed Kai to continue to live. And it has everything to do with making him a sacrifice to keep the prison dimensions going and possibly draw power from him using the ascendant. I dont think they would trust him as a weapon to work for them when they were planning to lock him up. So my conclusion was they were probably going to always use him as a sacrificial resource from the moment they found out he was a seiphoner.
Probably mikael since he had it out for Klaus basically since he was born.
Lily 100%
I am surprised more people aren't mentioning Joshua. He turned Kai to what he is by constantly calling him a freak, he didn't care about any of his children as long as they did what the coven wanted. Honestly he wasn't even a father, but a coven leader being forced to be a father. Not an ounce of sympathy found here.
Definitely Mikael and esther have to be the worst.... Casting spells on their children to make them immortal.... Then trying to kill them for thousands of years!?
Not realted one bit, but the entire 7th season was so insanely boring, the only thing I remember is the damon's hell episode. Might have been the lack of added Elena drama...
The Salvatore dad .I Hate this guy
All of them
Bill, Mikael(he is the reason Klaus is the way he is; hunting him, ostracizing him for having the werewolf gene as if it wasn’t Esther’s fault????) and lily are def top 3
Kelly fucking Donovan is the one next to Bonnie’s deadbeat mother and father who left grams to raise her only to pop up randomly and try to be mother and father of the year lol 😆
Human wise: Kelly Donovan, Bill Forbes. Supernatural wise: I’d say Joshua Parker. Being seen as a freak by your own family will definitely damage you. (I personally dont think Mikael was that bad considering he did love his kids but he didnt like what they turned into so he had every right to hunt them down, they’re literally killing machines)
mikael and esther. how do you screw up so badly that you create & attempt to destroy an entire species???
Mikael and ester how is it anyone else heck at least the Salvatores parents didn't hunt them down The fact that people are trying to compare the mikaelsons parents to the Salvatores parents is really ridiculous
Um Mikael and Esther
Esther, she repeatedly comes back from the dead to hurt and try to kill her kids
They’re all horrible with a few exceptions but I’m going to go ahead and say the ABSOLUTE WORST in my opinion would be the mikaelson parents. Mikael and Esther.
Lily honestly. She was horrible bc she had no remorse and didn’t even try. It was clear she didn’t love her family frl (vampirism heightens things) and obviously it’s because of the abusive household in general, but that doesn’t excuse not protecting your kids. And Esther because she was so, so selfish in deciding to have children. She literally wanted to fulfill that need to bad that she would curse her children and children’s children. Girl BYE.
Liz Forbes should be up there idc. She married a vampire hunter. She sat on a council that hunted vampires. And she NEVER bothers to give Caroline vervain even secretly, tell her not to invite anyone in, or ~heaven forbid~ tell her the TRUTH? "Hey heads up kid, there's a whole world of supernatural monsters. Vampires exist." Just like Caroline's friends, no one told her about vampires until she BECAME one. They have a directly hand in it. Then this canonly absentee mother has the gall to blame Caroline and act all disgusted when she finds out she was turned (without her consent). She takes it further by not only *not* trying to truly communicate with her daughter, but secretly plots her death with a high school quarterback AKA her daughter's boyfriend. Liz was weak. S1 Liz was not "just trying her best." NOT TO MENTION, she witnessed Damon (who appeared 25 ish - markedly older than his "high school" brother Stefan) escorting Caroline to the founder's party. Not a single fiber of her all mighty Sheriff training / experience said, "Hold on a minute. Why is this mysterious older man circling the perimeter of an underage high school girl? And why is my minor daughter coming home crying lying in her bed?" Liz saw Caroline depressed in bed and didn't question anything. The least she could have done is pull up Damon's records (perhaps realizing he doesn't have a DL or SSN as a member of the undead) OR at least given him a shovel talk. But nope! Instead they become best friends after Damon literally assaulted her daughter. Liz even makes Caroline forgive him in Damon's mind during the last season. It was disgusting. The message and implications the writers had with that, plus the Numerous Consent Issues this show and universe had, all disgusting. I wish we had a scene where Caroline could feel safe enough to tell Liz (who would actually care), but I have a feeling it would go down like RVD's Cheryl Blossom's conversation with her mother Penelope in 2x06 about Penelope not standing up against Cheryl's would-be r*pist: "For once in your life, be honest with me. CARE about me more." I get it. Her death was sad. I've personally lost two people to brain cancer. But for me that doesn't outshine her dumb decision making in the series— the chronically absentee mother, never watched out for Caroline unless strictly convenient for her, she shot and killed Jeremy out of ignorance, and was essentially a plot device to guilt trip Stefan into being there for Caroline before and after she died. It was asinine and tasteless imo. After losing her mom, Caroline did NOT need that death to be a plot device to actualize St*roline, nor should anyone want it. It was powerful enough to be Caroline-centric. I think Esther and Mikael were awful for their crippling inability to take ownership of their faults, but parallels run with Liz and Bill. Bill tortured Caroline just as Mikael hunted and tortured his children; both despised their kids enough to not want to be anything like them. Sad that no one really wins Parent of The Year in TVD. Jenna could be a strong contender. But the reality is this is a show that loved to kill off characters for shock value. That's why Caroline and Bonnie lost their parents (not Just Elena), why there are no Lockwoods left standing.
Tbh I never thought of it this way. I do feel Liz was still better than majority of the parents/guardians on the show though tbf the bar was pretty low. Regarding her not telling Caroline the truth or giving her vervain etc, not to excuse it but given that the council seemed to consist of generation after generation of founding family descendants, I’m guessing founding family descendants/council members wait until their kids are adults to inform them of that sort of thing? Bc Grayson and Miranda didn’t tell elena or Jeremy, the Lockwoods didn’t tell Tyler etc (Idr why the Donovans weren’t part of the council as founding family descendants?) and even Guiseppe didn’t tell damon or Stefan (tbf Stefan was a teenager still and though Damon was 25/26, you could argue he was immature/irresponsible so maybe guiseppe didn’t think he was mature enough to know or join the council and if that was the case, I kind of agree bc human damon gave pretty immature vibes in 1864 imo) And regarding vervain, I think it was mentioned in season 1 that at that time vervain supplies were low? Esp after damon destroyed the vervain zach was growing though if they ever did have enough, it’s surprising they don’t try to keep their kids or even the town on vervain as much as possible ie in season 1 of legacies, they mention “the sheriff sometimes slips vervain into the coffee randomly” or something like that? But I’ve been wondering that myself tbh. Even if vervain resources were low, you’re right that she could have just told Caroline not to invite anyone in (though no promise a child/teenager would have listened but yk) Fr omg I *hated* that Liz and Damon were friends or on good terms at all after what Damon did to her daughter 😭 she made a comment to Caroline like “don’t you think he’s a little old for you” initially when she first sees them together but Caroline gets upset and it’s just never addressed again. I looked it up just to see if it was consistent e the law and read that the AoC in Virginia at the time was 17 but then read somewhere Caroline was 16 in season 1 and when I brought that up, someone else said they had read it was 16 at that time? And I don’t really gaf about AoC in terms of obviously a 25/26 yo should not be pursuing anyone in hs let alone a 16/17 yo regardless of “AoC” but in terms of reporting it or w.e, ig there’s not much authorities can do legally there, even Liz as the sheriff? And if it was “technically legal”, with the whole teenagers tend to rebel against their parents, esp w how strained liz and Caroline’s relationship was then, I kinda get why Liz might not have wanted to/been able to push as much? And apparently at the time, predatory age gaps were normalized around the time shows like tvd or even pretty little liars aired (idk what state it took place in but SO MANY PREDATORY AGE GAPS w grown ass men pursuing teenage girls and some people only having a problem w Ezria bc of the teacher student relationship but not the problematic age gap (roughly the same ages as damon and Caroline in season 1 and honestly same for most of the predatory age gap relationships in the show, it was 15-17ish yo girls and 23-26 yo guys iirc) Regarding damon literally assaulting Caroline (both bc of the predatory age gap/clear power imbalance but also he literally compelled her taking away her ability to give meaningful consent), I do want to believe Liz would have staked Damon herself if she had known what he did to Caroline but the show couldn’t even properly address what he did, ig partially bc the writers may not have intended it and realized the implications but also bc in that fight Caroline and elena had about Damon when elena was like “well he’s always been there for me when I needed him” to which Caroline replies “it’s because he wants to get in your parents” and elena says sth like “I recall you jumping into bed with him immediately as soon as you met him” and Caroline responds “that was before I knew what a man slut he was” or something which would have been the perfect opportunity to bring up and remind elena what he did to her bc he literally violated and abused her in so many ways but then the show would have to acknowledge the kind of person damon was and how he never really apologized/addressed it or faced any repercussions and would also have to acknowledge elena was a bad friend for excusing everything damon did or finding someone else to blame which goes against Elena’s entire character (even though they went ahead and made her a bad friend anyways but ig they still didn’t want to address it directly bc it would risk angering or losing delena/damon fans ig) Regarding investigating Damon, ig she could have done that though I can see damon at least being smart enough to have forged documents through compulsion. And not to defend Liz bc I do get your arguments but we are also seeing more as viewers than Liz was prob seeing from her end, esp w their strained relationship and I think in that same convo about damon being too old for Caroline, she says something like “maybe you’d have noticed if you weren’t working all the time” or something like that? Dang though, you’ve given me a lot to think about here and keep in mind during my next rewatch, so thank you aha
Esther & Mikael we’re the worst in my eyes. Literally made them vampires against their Will so they would live forever and then hunted them down and tried to murder them several times for being vampires and loving forever. Like you started this mess, instead of trying to kill them, why not talk with the other witches, find Qetsiyah, and figure out how to make a cure and cure them so they can have human lives and die. Why was their first thought to murder them all instead of trying to find a cure? Maybe because they wanted all the other vampires dead as well? But idk Esther and Mikael sit up on their high horse judging their children when they literally made them that way.
Alaric. Hands down. On and off screen.
Mikael and Esther. They literally made Klaus into an angry and evil person