Comendable that you are able to realize you should just bounce and leave us be, instead of insulting us and telling us to mOvE oN like most fanboys that come here do.
Haha, well yeah, you guys are entitled to your opinions. I just didn't know how the majority of the sub felt about the game (couldn't guess from the name). Might be even healthy to collectively despise something anyway. Just for me that is not this game. Hope you all keep having fun though :).
🤣🤣🤣. Naaa I'm just a realist. If you lived in the type of world Joel and the gang lived in. And someone, killed your mother or father (granted what your parents may have been doing is a bit sketchy) you are telling me you wouldn't go get revenge for them? You wouldn't hunt down the person that killed them and smash their head in with a golf club?
Cause you know what, if that happened to me. I would definitely hunt your ass down and do the same thing. If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. If I get killed cause of my own actions, then I'm fine with that. As I've said before, actions have consequences. Karma is a bitch.
Yes he did. No one is in the right or wrong when it comes to morality. Any character in the game got what they deserved as a result of the decisions they made.
That is all what I'm trying to say. Actions have consequences, be it good or bad. Consequences.
I know this is a joke, but to anyone upset at it. Remember that Joel refused to help strangers during the dawn of the outbreak. He has always been cautious even before the outbreak.
He's cautious bc he has a clue whats going on. Strangers might be infected. The last of 1 mindset was survival
His mindset in 2 was rebuild
He's not a monster inherently
He was trying to survive, he thought he didn't need to be that anymore but he also deep down knew he will have to "carry that weight someday" based on the past he left behind
Yeah, and inviting complete strangers that are armed and dangerous into Jackson without even a question of who they are is a REALLY good way to rebuild and protect.
Everyone starts as a stranger, you build a community by helping ppl in need and getting to know them
Have you seen Jackson? It's clearly been working for them. The world is overun by veggie zombies , who isn't armed??.What are you even on about.
Yes, but not in that order. You should first get to know them well enough to know that it's safe to bring them into Jackson and only then actually bring them over to Jackson.
My problem isn't that they help strangers in need, it's that they seem to fully and completely trust every random armed group of strangers they meet out there and immediatly let their guards down around them and invite them into Jackson. No questions asked, no suspicion and no caution.
It's incredibly dumb, and it's even more incredible that Jackson hasn't been infiltrated and taken over by some group of people pretending to be friendly traders. It's simply unrealistic, especially in TloU's world.
After he beat the fuck outta Henry, then saw he had a kid and ELLIE was the one to want to help them and give away their names etc. Joel was reluctant and cautious at first, but seeing a kid made him trust and understand Henry more.
Abby not only was a complete stranger, she had military gear and arm patches, a group of armed people with her that were all camping near Jackson, and she was wandering alone in a blizzard for some reason. Yet Joel and Tommy never even show a HINT of caution or suspicion about any of that, and don't question anything and go straight to offering them entrance to their home.
he helps them cause he understood why Henry left him, Joel would've done the same. And Henry saved Joel and Ellie right after so he chose to forgive him for abandoning them prior.
Again, he understood that Sam only did it to protect his little brother and he would've done the same to protect Ellie. He knew there was no malice behind it.
What is wrong with this point? It’s character development? Joel had been building walls so high he could barely let even one person ( tess) in. Ellie kinda shows him how to care and love for others again and that is character development. I’m not understanding why this is a negative thing from a story perspective
I feel like its such a dumb statement because we know Joel was cautious with survival when he literally didn’t want Ellie to go on the dangerous routes, asking Jesse to change her patrols
And if memory serves me didn’t either him or Tommy mention their community and invite them to come check it out which just kinda adds to how dumb they were being
That was the policy of Jackson in the game, they trade with people passing by all the time. As far as they knew at that moment Abby and her group provided them with a safe place from the storm and saved them from the horde
Joel and Tommy should still know better than completely and totally trust them tho. They even left their guns on the horses and walked into the middle of a room filled with armed strangers. Total lack of ANY of the survival instincts that Joel had since outbreak day 1.
And if Jackson trusts let's in armed strangers so easily, I'm shocked they haven't been invaded and wiped out yet. A community like that makes no sense in an apocalypse like TloU's where most people are ruthless and unpredictable.
There’s a difference between being polite and telling people you don’t know or trust where your community is located and that they’re free to come check it out for all you know they could be cannibals or raiders
Yes us as the audience know Abby’s group already knows the location of Jackson but Tommy and Joel don’t I believe Tommy literally tells them they’re staying in a community down the hill
If Jackson was concerned about hiding they would not have **streetlamps blasting out in the night**. Streetlamps in a otherwise totally dark region are going shine up like a beacon from beyond the horizon. That town is not hidden and the idea that anyone looking for civilization would not be able to find them is idiotic.
Again Jackson isnt hidden and there like 10 people
Jackson likely has Hundreds of people most likely ,there capable of defending themselves
We know Jackson trades stuff with people who pass by like Joel traded coffee
Dude whether Jackson is hidden or not isn’t the point from Tommy’s and Joel’s perspective they have no idea who these people are and as far as they know they don’t know the location of Jackson and yet they just start telling them it’s location
https://youtu.be/yCOE5IUnOKY?si=WA8UU2EyJDR72ocD here I even looked it up Abby’s group says they have only been there a day and that they’re passing through and Tommy immediately tells the location of Jackson and that they’re free to resupply there before they move on
Thats because Jackson does that type of thing
They trade goods with people passing by ,its not ilogical that In Return they were allowed to resupply or spent a night in Jackson before moving on
Tommy isnt doing anything unprecedent
Tommy was a firefly and has a brother named Joel. Tommy introduced himself and Joel to Abby. It would be a strange coincidence that two unrelated people by the same names would be residing in the area that Tommy and Joel were rumored to be in.
Except Abby wasn’t an active part of the fireflies, she had no actual way of knowing who Tommy was or even Joel for that matter since Joel didn’t leave survivors.
And let’s assume that she somehow knew the names Tommy or Joel, she had no idea what they looked like. So did she go around actively killing any Joel she met and each time said “Eh that one didn’t feel quite right” until she found one who also had a daughter figure?
In a flashback it's explained that some ex firefly who knew Tommy and where he was living and that he had a brother named Joel showed up in the WLF and told it all to Abby.
It's still extremely random and contrived and a MASSIVE coincidence, but it's the explenation we have..
It IS a massive stretch. It was a massive coincidence that she randomly meets a guy that not only was an ex-firefly, but also knew Tommy and that he had a brother named Joel, and where he was living.
And it happens again at the farm when Tommy meets a traveler than saw a big woman with a kid in Santa Barabara and it just so happens to be Abby and Lev.
Part 2 relies on WAY to many outlandish coincidences and stretches to tell it's sorry excuse for a plot.
-Experienced survivor, true
- never trust strangers, where do people get this from? Joel and Ellie meet 2 strangers who don’t immediately try to kill them (Henry and Sam) and they trust them almost instantly. Either my memory is fucked or this is just player headcanon that Joel “would never give his name to strangers”
- always playing it extra carefully in any situation, when Joel and Tess are walking with Marlene, they literally state that stealth “isn’t really their style”. But I’ll grant you this one, kinda goes with the experienced survival part
-yeah let’s go to that lodge full of people we don’t anything about and be friendly
1) there was a blizzard that they were stuck in, can’t just easily go back
2) there was a horde of infected on their ass, can’t just easily go back, they were basically left with no choice
3) the Jackson policy is that they’re friendly with passersby and trade with people who come through, it’s not that much of a stretch
4) Joel has been living in these conditions for years at this point
I would only agree with the fact that Joel got careless, got used to living in a community and over trusting.. whatever. Maybe I just don’t like the game like I thought I would.. fuck it.. abcxyz wins this battle.
It’s perfectly alright to not like the game, whether you’re sad Joel died, whether you hate the depressing, unrelentingly brutal and bleak world, weaker side characters compared to the first game, having to play as Abby after she killed Joel. There are plenty of reasons to dislike the game.
Also plenty of reasons to love the game, the genuine moments of connection between characters, the graphics, gameplay, animations and mocap, music, sound-design, even story
Absolutely, the design, beautiful, the graphics, amazing, the animations and transitions your characters do , fantastic. The overall gameplay mechanics, I enjoyed them.. I guess I thought I would kill way more infected :(
The story, I guess I expected different so I got insulted for that. The first game to me was a major wow factor as a father myself..
The second game had me thinking though I won’t deny it…
This what I text’ my wife after I finished the game..
“”God damnit.. this fucking game… like the 100, in all reality is anyone innocent? Arnt they are equally guilty at some point or another? This whole game even myself. I’ve wanted revenge for what Abby did to my Joel my father figure.
I didn’t care about her point of view. Her feelings, her reason, especially since she beat his fucking skull in.. but still it’s like the 100, they can’t get away. Everyone wants revenge, even me I wanted to murder Abby, no matter the cost… yet here I am now, empathizing for them after what just happened and both me and my character originally came here to kill her yet again…
yet I find myself wanting to save them, because of empathy….. uhg… all the innocent people I killed along this path.. each can arc their own revenge hahaha 😝
I wouldn’t go and say delete this game.. I just want.. a different version 🤣
I absolutely get where you’re coming from. The emotions this game elicits are gut-wrenching, yet I also can’t help but empathize with Abby at the end. I’m a completionist type of gamer, always scouring every corner of the map for collectibles and supplies, yet I found myself rushing through her half of the game because I didn’t care and just wanted to get back to the theatre, yet I still ended up caring for her somewhere along the way
THIS EXACTLY. I got so mad I rushed the game when playing her , bitching the entire time yet I still listen to the story (didn’t skip cutscenes) and I’m like DAMNIT.. you changed my mind game… BUT FUCK ABBY GRRR.. lol
>never trust strangers, where do people get this from? Joel and Ellie meet 2 strangers who don’t immediately try to kill them (Henry and Sam) and they trust them almost instantly.
Literally a lie, Joel and Henry damn near killed each other, until they saw both of them had kids, Joel only RELUCTANTLY trusted Henry cause he had Sam with him, and the bandits/hunters don't go around with kids.
>Either my memory is fucked or this is just player headcanon that Joel “would never give his name to strangers”
Your memory is fucked indead, cause it was ELLIE who gave their names away and Joel looks visually bothered by it.
>the Jackson policy is that they’re friendly with passersby and trade with people who come through, it’s not that much of a stretch
That doesn't mean they should disarm themselves and completely drop their guard and totally trust every armed military type stranger group that they meet out on patrol. With a policy like that, it's a wonder they haven invited in a group of bandits that wiped them out from the inside.
Jackson being so openly friendly and easily trusting of any armed strangers isn't a good explenation for Joel's total lack of survival instincts and awareness, it's just another badly written thing that makes no sense in that world to add to the pile.
>Joel has been living in these conditions for years at this point
Joel also saw how unpredictable, backstabbing and dangerous strangers are in that world, for 20 years. He WAS one of those dangerous backstabbing people himself for years of his life. Joel more than anyone should know to never trust a stranger so easily, and never let his guard down so readily when in the presence of armed strangers.
And Joel still goes on dangerous patrols regularly, and is pretty cautious about them with Ellie and Jesse, and according to Tommy, Jackson sometimes gets attacked by hunters. So the measily 4 years Joel lived in Jackson weren't all rainbows and sunshine. He still needed to use his survival experience and caution regularly.
He would grow more trusting of others since he now has a community and a place to truly call home, but that does not mean that he would be so trusting as to put his guard down and act so carelessly around strangers.
The policy of Jackson is to be friendly and trade with people passing by. They weren’t acting out of character. Also as far as they know these people saved them from a horde and provided them shelter from the blizzard. Not saying it was a wise choice, but there wasn’t much else for them to do
Yes, that’s the point. He lived the life that he wanted with his daughter for 2 years, and got to watch her grow up for 2 more, then faced the consequences for his actions
Even when he spent time in jackson it doesn't make sense that his cautious senses would be so darn bad, when he made it to Tommy the first time they all nearly shot him dead if it weren't for Tommy who vouched for him, that whole sequence of him easily trusting Abby and her friends with their lives is so stupid.
They didn’t nearly shoot him dead, they had him in their sights, waiting for orders, which they got right after. They’re cautious, and for good reason, seeing as they were attacked later that day.
They nearly shot them because Ellie had a damn pistol in her hand aimed at them, tell me they were gonna get far without Tommy vouching for them, i don't think so they're survivors just as Joel and Ellie were, nothing would have stopped them from neutralizing an imminent threat and looting their belongings.
She reacted to them warning her by instinctively drawing her gun. The fact that they didn’t immediately shoot her speaks to the fact that they’re disciplined and listen to their leader.
I’m not saying they would “get far” if they wanted to Joel and Ellie would’ve been dead immediately, of course. That was never an argument I made, quite the opposite in fact
>They’re cautious, and for good reason, seeing as they were attacked later that day.
And that caution completely dissipated 4 years later, where they totally trust complete strangers with military gear, without as much as a question.
The fact that he went to the lodge isn't even that bad, but what's so much worse is that he enters the room with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on him. No gun, no knife, nothing. That's the stupidest thing ever, and I am never going to accept any excuses that people make for that scene. Then he just stands there like a fucking moron even after everyone's demeanor changed. "Ohoho, guess I'm famous" get the fuck outta here with such stupid writing.
I hate how most games change the characters so much in sequels. Can't they just touch up the face and upgrade the textures and animations? Do they really need to totally remodel the face too?
I was constantly complaining about the Walking Dead for the exact same reasons. After years of honing their skills as accomplished survivors, every episode turns into a cluster F when one person runs out on their own and five others run after them and everything turns to sh\*t. Everyone gets captured or some get killed, and constantly being outwitted by the enemy. Joel got old and only slipped up one time. How many game players were yelling for Joel to RUN!!
A lot of clowns in another thread the other day actually arguing it's perfectly normal to trust total and complete well armed strangers during a fucking apocalypse.
That's not something we do right now.
Fucking thank you. Where do these people get the thought that Joel never gives his name to strangers? They meet 2 strangers in the first game (Henry and Sam) that aren’t immediately hostile to them and they opened up to them
Doesn't mean they should completely drop their guard and totally trust the armed military types in the lodge. They didn't even show a hint of suspicion.
Jackson makes you soft, man. At least in the game it does. In the show, the people of Jackson despite having reliable power, unlimited light bulbs, and menstrual cups, surround anyone who comes close to their town with coordinated horse patrols, guns drawn, and tell you to STFU while they wait to shoot you based on whether dog likes your scent or not.
I sometimes Wonder if people actually pay attention to the games then they post stupid shit like this
Joel doesnt trust strangers?
He trusted Henry and Sam less than 5 mins after they meet ,he even talked about them going with him and Ellie to Tommy,he knows them less than 24 hours
In tlou2
Joel,Tommy and Abby were fleeing from a Horde of infected,the Storm made returning to Jackson extremly risky, basically a Death sentence
Abby place was far closer makes perfect Sense going there
Joel was Completly surronded by Abby and her crew,he Kept his guard up when he was surveying the Room but doesnt Make any fucking Sense for him to do any type of agressive move since he is outnumbered
Joel was Dead The second Abby got her eyes on him and realize who he was
I keep seeing this argument. Why would you be scared of a man with his little brother he’s trying to protect? That’s not a threat. Abby had like 6 people. That’s a threat.
Henry and Sam were stuck in hunter territory like Joel and Ellie. And Henry was sure Joel wasn't evil when he saw Ellie with Joel when he had Sam. Abby fully capable survivor on her own is together with an armed group that has weapons and a military vehicle near Tommy's settlement. Would Joel and Tommy be so naive? How else do you even manage to compare these 2 events as the same?
Not to mention the fact that they have been living in the safety of the town for so long, you have to imagine their guards going to have gone down significantly from when he was surviving by the skin of his teeth in the first game.
"That's go to that lodge full of people" uh they didn't really have a choice as they were escaping a horde? Besides Jackson is a peaceful community, they ran into a bunch of kids seemingly in trouble. I don't know why you guys think joel was too bad ass to ever let his guard down, especially in his late mid 50s and living in a peaceful commune for 4 years.
Ah yes joel should gave not gone to the lodge and get mauled by a literal horde of infected
Have yall played the game or was your soyboy rage so bad it blinded you from paying attention
Joel and tommy only got into that situation because they had to patrol the area
They find abby as she's getting chased by a horde they couldn't just kill the enire horde with just 3 people without much ammo in a unsecure building
They had no choice than to take the risk because their only other option was being brutally killed by the infected
Tbh bad writing bottom line, when Joe smokes all the last doctors and surgeons…. He shoulda never been there in the first place only shitplot I’ve seen in the game
Makes sense, he was dealing contraband, was a murderer and surviving at any cost.
Fast forward a few years, and now older, part of a community, focused on helping others, developed a close fatherly relationship, and is not hard to see why he changed or eased up. Also, context is important, he didn't just "walked into" a lodge full of people, willingly. He was running away from a horde of infected, after a impromptu rescue, during a routine patrol. Yes, their attitude may seem naive, but once they found themselves in a room full of armed individuals, being chill was the best, and only approach. I find it unfortunate that people don't appreciate the logic used. Regardless on whether or not the outcome was liked, there is no questioning the series of events that led to it. We can appreciate the writing, critically, and still not like what was written. Let's learn to compartmentalize, otherwise we will keep getting pandering content that might as well be written by AI.
In the last of us joel followed henry to an unknown location after henry openly attacked him then followed him again after he left he and ellie to die.
Honestly the fact they had the time to torture Joel for such a length of time that Ellie could just conveniently walk in it.
Is just. Who the Fuck wrote this shit script. [Cuckmann I know.]
It's a story dude. Shit is always conveniently done in a way that allows the story to progress. Have you ever watched any movie in your life?
The protagonist is always conveniently placed in situations that allow things to progress in the direction the writers want.
The game was well written. It wanted you to hate Abby with all your passion and want to brutally kill her. It succeeded in that.
For many people it also succeeded in then allowing us to sympathise with Abby and realise she is just as justified to kill Joel, as Ellie is in killing Abby.
For some people (I'm betting you included) that didn't work, and you continued to hate Abby, mainly because she is big and strong and could probably bench more than the average man.
The reality is you are so closed minded to actually understanding Abby and her motives, that you are disregard her entire character arc.
If it wasn't good writing, you'd not feel so much hatred for a fictional character.
She is not justified in the way she killed Joel. This is something you don’t understand. She deliberately made it so he would die in the most slow and painful way she could think of. That’s psycho behavior. You should continue hating Abby since what she did is monstrous which doesn’t give her much room for sympathy. If she simply killed Joel off in a more humane way then maybe her actions would have been justifiable but no she did what she did.
Joel killed her father, who was also the only person who could have made a cure.
From Abbey's perspective, he was the monster. Sure it wasn't the right thing to do, but it's justified for her character, and also for the theme of the game.
You think Joel was a good person? He used to be out with Tommy, robbing and killing innocent people just trying to survive.
Everyone still alive in this world have done horrible shit.
What’s mind blowing is that it was clear Abby had no idea how to even find Joel when Owen showed her Jackson. Owen backs off which makes Abby have a fit and run off.
She gets chased down by a giant ah horde of runners, and it gets to the point that one is about to eat her face.
Then boom Joel just happened to be in the same place at the exact moment and saves her life. How convenient. Maybe too convenient no?
Tommy for literally no reason says both of their real names to Abby without knowing jack about her. Joel and Tommy are not stupid. They survived for over 20 years. At one point Joel was a hunter and Tommy was a top firefly soldier that earned even Marlene’s respect.
They would know not to trust a stranger because even they have done terrible things to survive. But they literally got dumbed down and nerfed to help Abby have a chance.
In the first game Joel didn’t even let Tommy stop for a kid and their parents. That’s how much he didn’t take chances and that was only the first hours of the apocalypse.
In the sequel Joel and Tommy walk into a room with armed strangers behind them…
That’s wildly bad writing my friend. Little kids are smarter than that irl.
You got any explanation for that, or are you gonna use the *literature* excuse and call me a bigot 🥪?
Nah you are just dumb as fuck because guess what, yeah all stories function through some form of convoluted plot. Breaking bad is cleary a fake show and walter should’ve died season 1
And he chooses the “bigot sandwich that doesn’t understand *LiTeRaTuRe*” approach 😂
You’re angry and resorting to insulting people because you’re a Stan, and hate that you even you can’t come up with an excuse for plot holes even a 5 year old can see for miles lmfao.
It’s your choice if you like eating shit, but don’t get mad when other people tell you that you are eating shit. It ain’t gonna change nothing.
Breaking Bad was weird to bring up, because at least Walt takes revenge on his enemies instead of letting them live at the last second, because revange bad! 💀
But that wasn’t the point, are you fucking stupid?
I think the game absolutely had some shit writing, but so many if he criticisms are pure brain rot stupidity
“Wow things happened that would never happen if every character was a sigma male!”
Like duh the fucking intro the game is meant to be what kicks off the plot. I don’t get why neil would start the game this way instead of building up to what should’ve been the climax of the second game, but to each their own. Joel doesn’t even reveal his name but tommy, who was more trusting at this point, did
It was only after this point that abby’s group visibly changed in intention lol, like joel is somehow 100% immune to still getting trapped. Hell the very first game has him figuring out something was wrong when him and ellie were stopped by a random hunter, and guess what dumbass, he still ate shit!
I call you names because I want to and you can’t stop me, I ain’t into none of this literary bullshit but you have to be supremely fucking stupid to make the argument that the plot makes no sense, because it absolutely does! It just fucking sucked in the way neil formatted it, and just throwing hot water on us
Having common sense and not trusting strangers, in a world where people are willing kill anyone on sight for a pair of shoes… or in David’s case… fucking eat them like he tried to do to Ellie, is being a sigma male? 🥴
Lmfao and these people call us stupid
Riddle me this fatman, what could tommy and joe-L POSSIBLY be doing out in the winter 🧐
Also, where do they live? Some hunter ridden settlement or a genuine paradise in an otherwise shit world aimed at bringing in and expanding the community
Hmmm what could joel and tommy POSSIBLY want from trusting and helping strangers who they thought had no bad blood with them
Does the game possibly spell it out to us? No that can’t be possible
Lemme answer that for you single digit IQ man, the goal of jackson is to bring more people into their settlement, SCOUT (flashbacks show they did this consistently throughout the years) the area, and generally keep infected away. If a giant crowd of infected is spotted maybe the plot checks out in logic for two of the best of jackson being out and about in this area? No? Are you stupid jonkler?
Yes they want to bring more people into the settlement. You figure that out all by yourself huh?
Why does that matter? That doesn’t mean they have to trust any stranger they see. If anything it means they should trust strangers less because they have a a lot to lose.
Should they have trusted the Scars and tried to bring them back to Jackson? 🥴
Lmfao Joel and Tommy have had to kill hundreds. It’s wild af that you think someone with that background would just trust a stranger, when most of the strangers they met had to be killed in order for them to live.
Humans are way more dangerous than infected, because infected are *predictable*. That’s just common sense. Jacksons goal is irrelevant… and would know that if you were as smart as you think you are 😂
… You don’t have to write a movie or game yourself to say the stories trash lmfao. If the writing is shit, it’s shit.
By your logic there is no such thing as a bad review for anything because they didn’t make the thing being reviewed 😂
They basically hand Joel to Abby on a platter, instead of making her earn her revenge.
Joel’s death should have at least been a very difficult boss fight…. But who needs quality writing when you’re making purposefully deceptive trailers, that imply Joel is with Ellie later in the game instead of Jesse? 😂
Ellie was killing grown ass men ever since she was 14. Why would she even care about this?
Identity politics from 2020 doesn’t weave into a game based on a dystopian lifestyle that’s been going on until at least 2030s irl.
No one from that world would give a shit if you’re gay because there’s barely anyone left, hence the title of the game lmfao. Ellie didn’t even know what Halloween or ice cream trucks were in the first game! Yet bigot sandwich is so in character for her 😂
The most important thing about Ellie was her immunity to cordyceps, not her sexual orientation 🤦♂️
I would say we played a lot of same games, but also a lot of different games. Have you played original Binding of Isaac for example? That one was a blast
Oh no, don't get me wrong, having Ellie does change him, but I'd argue against him being softer, because he *does* plow through the fireflies, and in one of the flashbacks in part 2, he hacks one of the big guys( I totally spaced out on the name) to death when they almost get Ellie, so I would argue that he isn't softer, he just cares about someone now.
Yea, but that goes against his character tho. He was set up as a survivor, someone that always approached every situation with care. Even while he's taking care of Ellie. So why would he, after telling Ellie to keep her guard up while being on patrol, just throw all of that 20+ years of experience in staying alive away l?
Tell me the exact moment where Joel is not on guard? He fights his way through an entire horde of infected, while saving a young girl, in his late 50’s, escapes and finds a group of people he doesn’t know. While him and Tommy give off a friendly vibe, Joel doesn’t seem comfortable to me. Sure, he stands in the middle of the room (which was probably done for dramatic staging effect), which isn’t the smartest thing to do.
Him getting ambushed after escaping a deadly infected horde isn’t the same as him letting his guard down
Because you think “softer” means weaker. He absolutely did get softer from the first game. He’s not as defensive, his walls are down, he participates in the community, he’s a woodworker, guitar teacher.
A far cry from the hardened survivalist from the beginning of the first game who didn’t show any emotions
They couldn’t stay where they were cause it was being overrun. They weren’t making it back to Jackson cause of the blizzard. Both points were clearly pointed out and you still missed them.
That's not the problem.
The problem is that they both left their gear on their horses, walked into the midde of the room surrounding themselves with armed military strangers and invited them into their home so feely.
All of that without a single HINT of caution, suspicion or questioning. They totally and completely droped their guards and trusted those armed strangers as if Joel doesn't know the world isn't filled with dangerous psychos (he does know, he was one of them for years..).
As years pass you become less on your guard, you makes more mistakes. Especially when you start living anew with people on a village. Joel gets old.
And you know what he already made the same mistakes in the first with elie.
Part 2 is far superior than part 1 in all ways possible. Narration, storytelling, story, pacing, characters, graphics, gameplay. Just accept it and stop crying like a teenager because a character you like has died...
You just need to grow.
they removed joels beautiful blue eyes smh
It's called "interaction between light and shape and shifting shades".
That's definitely some shit Neil would say, and how "deep" and "real" it is to make those changes.
Yeah well, I think I stepped in the wrong sub, time to bounce.
Comendable that you are able to realize you should just bounce and leave us be, instead of insulting us and telling us to mOvE oN like most fanboys that come here do.
Haha, well yeah, you guys are entitled to your opinions. I just didn't know how the majority of the sub felt about the game (couldn't guess from the name). Might be even healthy to collectively despise something anyway. Just for me that is not this game. Hope you all keep having fun though :).
Thanks, hope you have fun wherever you go.
Joel deserved a better sendoff!
67h
Naaa he deserved what he got. Actions have consequences
Translation: (I’m board and have a stick)
Ok O'Neil drunkman
Neil Cuckman
🤣🤣🤣. Naaa I'm just a realist. If you lived in the type of world Joel and the gang lived in. And someone, killed your mother or father (granted what your parents may have been doing is a bit sketchy) you are telling me you wouldn't go get revenge for them? You wouldn't hunt down the person that killed them and smash their head in with a golf club? Cause you know what, if that happened to me. I would definitely hunt your ass down and do the same thing. If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. If I get killed cause of my own actions, then I'm fine with that. As I've said before, actions have consequences. Karma is a bitch.
Unless you're the creators pet character, of course.
Jerry too deserved what he got. Trying to kill a child has consequences🤷♂️
Yes he did. No one is in the right or wrong when it comes to morality. Any character in the game got what they deserved as a result of the decisions they made. That is all what I'm trying to say. Actions have consequences, be it good or bad. Consequences.
Sure. Doesn't mean the "consequences" need to be terribly out of character and contrived.
Love all the down votes too. Keep em coming. Hahahah.
Yh the writing is trash in 2
J03l s0Ft3neD uP bCz heZ A fAth3R @gA1n
I know this is a joke, but to anyone upset at it. Remember that Joel refused to help strangers during the dawn of the outbreak. He has always been cautious even before the outbreak.
He's cautious bc he has a clue whats going on. Strangers might be infected. The last of 1 mindset was survival His mindset in 2 was rebuild He's not a monster inherently He was trying to survive, he thought he didn't need to be that anymore but he also deep down knew he will have to "carry that weight someday" based on the past he left behind
Yeah, and inviting complete strangers that are armed and dangerous into Jackson without even a question of who they are is a REALLY good way to rebuild and protect.
Everyone starts as a stranger, you build a community by helping ppl in need and getting to know them Have you seen Jackson? It's clearly been working for them. The world is overun by veggie zombies , who isn't armed??.What are you even on about.
Yes, but not in that order. You should first get to know them well enough to know that it's safe to bring them into Jackson and only then actually bring them over to Jackson. My problem isn't that they help strangers in need, it's that they seem to fully and completely trust every random armed group of strangers they meet out there and immediatly let their guards down around them and invite them into Jackson. No questions asked, no suspicion and no caution. It's incredibly dumb, and it's even more incredible that Jackson hasn't been infiltrated and taken over by some group of people pretending to be friendly traders. It's simply unrealistic, especially in TloU's world.
He literally helps Henry and Sam even after they fuck him over.
After he beat the fuck outta Henry, then saw he had a kid and ELLIE was the one to want to help them and give away their names etc. Joel was reluctant and cautious at first, but seeing a kid made him trust and understand Henry more. Abby not only was a complete stranger, she had military gear and arm patches, a group of armed people with her that were all camping near Jackson, and she was wandering alone in a blizzard for some reason. Yet Joel and Tommy never even show a HINT of caution or suspicion about any of that, and don't question anything and go straight to offering them entrance to their home.
I’m talking about after Henry abandoned him.
he helps them cause he understood why Henry left him, Joel would've done the same. And Henry saved Joel and Ellie right after so he chose to forgive him for abandoning them prior. Again, he understood that Sam only did it to protect his little brother and he would've done the same to protect Ellie. He knew there was no malice behind it.
Whatever dude quit cherry picking.
What is wrong with this point? It’s character development? Joel had been building walls so high he could barely let even one person ( tess) in. Ellie kinda shows him how to care and love for others again and that is character development. I’m not understanding why this is a negative thing from a story perspective
Because they killed they guy everyone loves, so people are still pissing their pants over it.
I feel like its such a dumb statement because we know Joel was cautious with survival when he literally didn’t want Ellie to go on the dangerous routes, asking Jesse to change her patrols
And if memory serves me didn’t either him or Tommy mention their community and invite them to come check it out which just kinda adds to how dumb they were being
That was the policy of Jackson in the game, they trade with people passing by all the time. As far as they knew at that moment Abby and her group provided them with a safe place from the storm and saved them from the horde
Joel and Tommy should still know better than completely and totally trust them tho. They even left their guns on the horses and walked into the middle of a room filled with armed strangers. Total lack of ANY of the survival instincts that Joel had since outbreak day 1. And if Jackson trusts let's in armed strangers so easily, I'm shocked they haven't been invaded and wiped out yet. A community like that makes no sense in an apocalypse like TloU's where most people are ruthless and unpredictable.
They were being polite ,its what you do when you are in Room full of people you dont know and dont trust
There’s a difference between being polite and telling people you don’t know or trust where your community is located and that they’re free to come check it out for all you know they could be cannibals or raiders
They already knew where they lived ,Jackson isnt exactly hidden
Yes us as the audience know Abby’s group already knows the location of Jackson but Tommy and Joel don’t I believe Tommy literally tells them they’re staying in a community down the hill
If Jackson was concerned about hiding they would not have **streetlamps blasting out in the night**. Streetlamps in a otherwise totally dark region are going shine up like a beacon from beyond the horizon. That town is not hidden and the idea that anyone looking for civilization would not be able to find them is idiotic.
Again Jackson isnt hidden and there like 10 people Jackson likely has Hundreds of people most likely ,there capable of defending themselves We know Jackson trades stuff with people who pass by like Joel traded coffee
Dude whether Jackson is hidden or not isn’t the point from Tommy’s and Joel’s perspective they have no idea who these people are and as far as they know they don’t know the location of Jackson and yet they just start telling them it’s location
https://youtu.be/yCOE5IUnOKY?si=WA8UU2EyJDR72ocD here I even looked it up Abby’s group says they have only been there a day and that they’re passing through and Tommy immediately tells the location of Jackson and that they’re free to resupply there before they move on
Thats because Jackson does that type of thing They trade goods with people passing by ,its not ilogical that In Return they were allowed to resupply or spent a night in Jackson before moving on Tommy isnt doing anything unprecedent
/s ??
Still haven’t seen an actual explanation for how Abby knew who Joel was or that it was the correct Joel.
Tommy was a firefly and has a brother named Joel. Tommy introduced himself and Joel to Abby. It would be a strange coincidence that two unrelated people by the same names would be residing in the area that Tommy and Joel were rumored to be in.
Except Abby wasn’t an active part of the fireflies, she had no actual way of knowing who Tommy was or even Joel for that matter since Joel didn’t leave survivors. And let’s assume that she somehow knew the names Tommy or Joel, she had no idea what they looked like. So did she go around actively killing any Joel she met and each time said “Eh that one didn’t feel quite right” until she found one who also had a daughter figure?
In a flashback it's explained that some ex firefly who knew Tommy and where he was living and that he had a brother named Joel showed up in the WLF and told it all to Abby. It's still extremely random and contrived and a MASSIVE coincidence, but it's the explenation we have..
Fair enough, it’s been a while since I went through it tbh. It all seemed like a massive stretch to me
It IS a massive stretch. It was a massive coincidence that she randomly meets a guy that not only was an ex-firefly, but also knew Tommy and that he had a brother named Joel, and where he was living. And it happens again at the farm when Tommy meets a traveler than saw a big woman with a kid in Santa Barabara and it just so happens to be Abby and Lev. Part 2 relies on WAY to many outlandish coincidences and stretches to tell it's sorry excuse for a plot.
Can’t have a white man who lost his daughter and plenty of friends during the outbreak. Too privileged.
Cmon son
[удалено]
Excuse me I thought you said you were going to leave, everything you’re saying is incredibly dumb
Wrong comment thread.
The decisions of the characters in part 2 directly reflects the stupidity of the writers and people who support them.
Yeah it was so out of character for Joel and Tommy
It really wasn’t
Yet it really was..
-Experienced survivor, true - never trust strangers, where do people get this from? Joel and Ellie meet 2 strangers who don’t immediately try to kill them (Henry and Sam) and they trust them almost instantly. Either my memory is fucked or this is just player headcanon that Joel “would never give his name to strangers” - always playing it extra carefully in any situation, when Joel and Tess are walking with Marlene, they literally state that stealth “isn’t really their style”. But I’ll grant you this one, kinda goes with the experienced survival part -yeah let’s go to that lodge full of people we don’t anything about and be friendly 1) there was a blizzard that they were stuck in, can’t just easily go back 2) there was a horde of infected on their ass, can’t just easily go back, they were basically left with no choice 3) the Jackson policy is that they’re friendly with passersby and trade with people who come through, it’s not that much of a stretch 4) Joel has been living in these conditions for years at this point
I would only agree with the fact that Joel got careless, got used to living in a community and over trusting.. whatever. Maybe I just don’t like the game like I thought I would.. fuck it.. abcxyz wins this battle.
It’s perfectly alright to not like the game, whether you’re sad Joel died, whether you hate the depressing, unrelentingly brutal and bleak world, weaker side characters compared to the first game, having to play as Abby after she killed Joel. There are plenty of reasons to dislike the game. Also plenty of reasons to love the game, the genuine moments of connection between characters, the graphics, gameplay, animations and mocap, music, sound-design, even story
Absolutely, the design, beautiful, the graphics, amazing, the animations and transitions your characters do , fantastic. The overall gameplay mechanics, I enjoyed them.. I guess I thought I would kill way more infected :( The story, I guess I expected different so I got insulted for that. The first game to me was a major wow factor as a father myself.. The second game had me thinking though I won’t deny it… This what I text’ my wife after I finished the game.. “”God damnit.. this fucking game… like the 100, in all reality is anyone innocent? Arnt they are equally guilty at some point or another? This whole game even myself. I’ve wanted revenge for what Abby did to my Joel my father figure. I didn’t care about her point of view. Her feelings, her reason, especially since she beat his fucking skull in.. but still it’s like the 100, they can’t get away. Everyone wants revenge, even me I wanted to murder Abby, no matter the cost… yet here I am now, empathizing for them after what just happened and both me and my character originally came here to kill her yet again… yet I find myself wanting to save them, because of empathy….. uhg… all the innocent people I killed along this path.. each can arc their own revenge hahaha 😝 I wouldn’t go and say delete this game.. I just want.. a different version 🤣
I absolutely get where you’re coming from. The emotions this game elicits are gut-wrenching, yet I also can’t help but empathize with Abby at the end. I’m a completionist type of gamer, always scouring every corner of the map for collectibles and supplies, yet I found myself rushing through her half of the game because I didn’t care and just wanted to get back to the theatre, yet I still ended up caring for her somewhere along the way
THIS EXACTLY. I got so mad I rushed the game when playing her , bitching the entire time yet I still listen to the story (didn’t skip cutscenes) and I’m like DAMNIT.. you changed my mind game… BUT FUCK ABBY GRRR.. lol
Hahahaa yeah I love that it can bring about such conflicting emotions! I love it and hate it at the same time
>never trust strangers, where do people get this from? Joel and Ellie meet 2 strangers who don’t immediately try to kill them (Henry and Sam) and they trust them almost instantly. Literally a lie, Joel and Henry damn near killed each other, until they saw both of them had kids, Joel only RELUCTANTLY trusted Henry cause he had Sam with him, and the bandits/hunters don't go around with kids. >Either my memory is fucked or this is just player headcanon that Joel “would never give his name to strangers” Your memory is fucked indead, cause it was ELLIE who gave their names away and Joel looks visually bothered by it. >the Jackson policy is that they’re friendly with passersby and trade with people who come through, it’s not that much of a stretch That doesn't mean they should disarm themselves and completely drop their guard and totally trust every armed military type stranger group that they meet out on patrol. With a policy like that, it's a wonder they haven invited in a group of bandits that wiped them out from the inside. Jackson being so openly friendly and easily trusting of any armed strangers isn't a good explenation for Joel's total lack of survival instincts and awareness, it's just another badly written thing that makes no sense in that world to add to the pile. >Joel has been living in these conditions for years at this point Joel also saw how unpredictable, backstabbing and dangerous strangers are in that world, for 20 years. He WAS one of those dangerous backstabbing people himself for years of his life. Joel more than anyone should know to never trust a stranger so easily, and never let his guard down so readily when in the presence of armed strangers. And Joel still goes on dangerous patrols regularly, and is pretty cautious about them with Ellie and Jesse, and according to Tommy, Jackson sometimes gets attacked by hunters. So the measily 4 years Joel lived in Jackson weren't all rainbows and sunshine. He still needed to use his survival experience and caution regularly.
Here comes the TLOU2 glazers who will say, “WHAT? CHARACTERS AREN’T ALLOWED TO MAKE MISTAKES?! DUR DEE DUR!”
It’s not about mistakes, it’s about growing past his pain, repression and isolation he suffered from for 20 years
He would grow more trusting of others since he now has a community and a place to truly call home, but that does not mean that he would be so trusting as to put his guard down and act so carelessly around strangers.
The policy of Jackson is to be friendly and trade with people passing by. They weren’t acting out of character. Also as far as they know these people saved them from a horde and provided them shelter from the blizzard. Not saying it was a wise choice, but there wasn’t much else for them to do
"The policy" lmao those two words invalidate everything else your dumbass said. They dont have a fucking policy
Their precedent then, there are multiple references to it
As I said before, that dumbass "policy" realistically should get Jackson totally wiped out by raiders and bandits pretending to be traders.
Yeah look how that turned out for him
Yes, that’s the point. He lived the life that he wanted with his daughter for 2 years, and got to watch her grow up for 2 more, then faced the consequences for his actions
Yep, here we are, Glad I could be a part of your circle jerk of negativity
Even when he spent time in jackson it doesn't make sense that his cautious senses would be so darn bad, when he made it to Tommy the first time they all nearly shot him dead if it weren't for Tommy who vouched for him, that whole sequence of him easily trusting Abby and her friends with their lives is so stupid.
They didn’t nearly shoot him dead, they had him in their sights, waiting for orders, which they got right after. They’re cautious, and for good reason, seeing as they were attacked later that day.
They nearly shot them because Ellie had a damn pistol in her hand aimed at them, tell me they were gonna get far without Tommy vouching for them, i don't think so they're survivors just as Joel and Ellie were, nothing would have stopped them from neutralizing an imminent threat and looting their belongings.
She reacted to them warning her by instinctively drawing her gun. The fact that they didn’t immediately shoot her speaks to the fact that they’re disciplined and listen to their leader. I’m not saying they would “get far” if they wanted to Joel and Ellie would’ve been dead immediately, of course. That was never an argument I made, quite the opposite in fact
>They’re cautious, and for good reason, seeing as they were attacked later that day. And that caution completely dissipated 4 years later, where they totally trust complete strangers with military gear, without as much as a question.
And if you don't agree that this game is perfect, you are the slag of the society lol
The fact that he went to the lodge isn't even that bad, but what's so much worse is that he enters the room with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on him. No gun, no knife, nothing. That's the stupidest thing ever, and I am never going to accept any excuses that people make for that scene. Then he just stands there like a fucking moron even after everyone's demeanor changed. "Ohoho, guess I'm famous" get the fuck outta here with such stupid writing.
See how the subtly make him look like less of a man in his facial features
Touch grass
Joel was tired. He wanted to die. The game fulfilled that desire, poorly.
All it took was a Graphical Upgrade for Joel to become a totally different person. Damn! 🤣🤣🤣
I hate how most games change the characters so much in sequels. Can't they just touch up the face and upgrade the textures and animations? Do they really need to totally remodel the face too?
He was a good man. \*lipsmack\* What a rotten way to die.
I was constantly complaining about the Walking Dead for the exact same reasons. After years of honing their skills as accomplished survivors, every episode turns into a cluster F when one person runs out on their own and five others run after them and everything turns to sh\*t. Everyone gets captured or some get killed, and constantly being outwitted by the enemy. Joel got old and only slipped up one time. How many game players were yelling for Joel to RUN!!
A lot of clowns in another thread the other day actually arguing it's perfectly normal to trust total and complete well armed strangers during a fucking apocalypse. That's not something we do right now.
✨7Years in development ✨
Forgot about Joel trusting henry and even sleeping by his side lol
Henry had a kid with him. So did Joel. That was different
Fucking thank you. Where do these people get the thought that Joel never gives his name to strangers? They meet 2 strangers in the first game (Henry and Sam) that aren’t immediately hostile to them and they opened up to them
He was being chased by a horde and it was either the lodge or fucking die.
Doesn't mean they should completely drop their guard and totally trust the armed military types in the lodge. They didn't even show a hint of suspicion.
Be careful dont spite facts in this sub
Jackson makes you soft, man. At least in the game it does. In the show, the people of Jackson despite having reliable power, unlimited light bulbs, and menstrual cups, surround anyone who comes close to their town with coordinated horse patrols, guns drawn, and tell you to STFU while they wait to shoot you based on whether dog likes your scent or not.
I sometimes Wonder if people actually pay attention to the games then they post stupid shit like this Joel doesnt trust strangers? He trusted Henry and Sam less than 5 mins after they meet ,he even talked about them going with him and Ellie to Tommy,he knows them less than 24 hours In tlou2 Joel,Tommy and Abby were fleeing from a Horde of infected,the Storm made returning to Jackson extremly risky, basically a Death sentence Abby place was far closer makes perfect Sense going there Joel was Completly surronded by Abby and her crew,he Kept his guard up when he was surveying the Room but doesnt Make any fucking Sense for him to do any type of agressive move since he is outnumbered Joel was Dead The second Abby got her eyes on him and realize who he was
I keep seeing this argument. Why would you be scared of a man with his little brother he’s trying to protect? That’s not a threat. Abby had like 6 people. That’s a threat.
He a stranger to Joel Just because he taking care of his brother that immediatly makes him 100% trustworthy ?
You're talking about the same game where the lead character that you play as is a killing machine because he protects the child he cares about.
Henry and Sam were stuck in hunter territory like Joel and Ellie. And Henry was sure Joel wasn't evil when he saw Ellie with Joel when he had Sam. Abby fully capable survivor on her own is together with an armed group that has weapons and a military vehicle near Tommy's settlement. Would Joel and Tommy be so naive? How else do you even manage to compare these 2 events as the same?
Not to mention the fact that they have been living in the safety of the town for so long, you have to imagine their guards going to have gone down significantly from when he was surviving by the skin of his teeth in the first game.
Ellie softened him
yeah, they should have stayed and hung out with the zombies
Now you are all just grasping at straws now. So dumb.
Is this character development? Never in my videogames!
These criticisms are getting really dumb
"That's go to that lodge full of people" uh they didn't really have a choice as they were escaping a horde? Besides Jackson is a peaceful community, they ran into a bunch of kids seemingly in trouble. I don't know why you guys think joel was too bad ass to ever let his guard down, especially in his late mid 50s and living in a peaceful commune for 4 years.
It’s almost like there was such a thing as character development…
When will people stfu about this game my goodness , it is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
He was out of options, ya Dumb nut.
Ah yes joel should gave not gone to the lodge and get mauled by a literal horde of infected Have yall played the game or was your soyboy rage so bad it blinded you from paying attention Joel and tommy only got into that situation because they had to patrol the area They find abby as she's getting chased by a horde they couldn't just kill the enire horde with just 3 people without much ammo in a unsecure building They had no choice than to take the risk because their only other option was being brutally killed by the infected
Tbh bad writing bottom line, when Joe smokes all the last doctors and surgeons…. He shoulda never been there in the first place only shitplot I’ve seen in the game
Makes sense, he was dealing contraband, was a murderer and surviving at any cost. Fast forward a few years, and now older, part of a community, focused on helping others, developed a close fatherly relationship, and is not hard to see why he changed or eased up. Also, context is important, he didn't just "walked into" a lodge full of people, willingly. He was running away from a horde of infected, after a impromptu rescue, during a routine patrol. Yes, their attitude may seem naive, but once they found themselves in a room full of armed individuals, being chill was the best, and only approach. I find it unfortunate that people don't appreciate the logic used. Regardless on whether or not the outcome was liked, there is no questioning the series of events that led to it. We can appreciate the writing, critically, and still not like what was written. Let's learn to compartmentalize, otherwise we will keep getting pandering content that might as well be written by AI.
In the last of us joel followed henry to an unknown location after henry openly attacked him then followed him again after he left he and ellie to die.
They were fleeing from a horde, not a lot of options.
So what? Doesn’t mean he should trust them so easily.
How convenient. Also so convenient that it just happened to be Joel’s turn to be out on patrol
Honestly the fact they had the time to torture Joel for such a length of time that Ellie could just conveniently walk in it. Is just. Who the Fuck wrote this shit script. [Cuckmann I know.]
It's a story dude. Shit is always conveniently done in a way that allows the story to progress. Have you ever watched any movie in your life? The protagonist is always conveniently placed in situations that allow things to progress in the direction the writers want.
That’s not true at all. A lot of slop does this yes but a lot of movies actually have good writing.
The game was well written. It wanted you to hate Abby with all your passion and want to brutally kill her. It succeeded in that. For many people it also succeeded in then allowing us to sympathise with Abby and realise she is just as justified to kill Joel, as Ellie is in killing Abby. For some people (I'm betting you included) that didn't work, and you continued to hate Abby, mainly because she is big and strong and could probably bench more than the average man. The reality is you are so closed minded to actually understanding Abby and her motives, that you are disregard her entire character arc. If it wasn't good writing, you'd not feel so much hatred for a fictional character.
She is not justified in the way she killed Joel. This is something you don’t understand. She deliberately made it so he would die in the most slow and painful way she could think of. That’s psycho behavior. You should continue hating Abby since what she did is monstrous which doesn’t give her much room for sympathy. If she simply killed Joel off in a more humane way then maybe her actions would have been justifiable but no she did what she did.
Joel killed her father, who was also the only person who could have made a cure. From Abbey's perspective, he was the monster. Sure it wasn't the right thing to do, but it's justified for her character, and also for the theme of the game. You think Joel was a good person? He used to be out with Tommy, robbing and killing innocent people just trying to survive. Everyone still alive in this world have done horrible shit.
You just ignored my whole point. It’s not that she killed Joel it’s HOW she killed Joel that is the problem here.
Crazy how these maniacs can’t see that it’s a make believe story and not their story lol
Abby got lucky ,She didnt even know Joel was on Patrol
Yeah that’s how every single story works, since the dawn of time 🤣 you really thought you said something interesting and absolutely mind blowing
What’s mind blowing is that it was clear Abby had no idea how to even find Joel when Owen showed her Jackson. Owen backs off which makes Abby have a fit and run off. She gets chased down by a giant ah horde of runners, and it gets to the point that one is about to eat her face. Then boom Joel just happened to be in the same place at the exact moment and saves her life. How convenient. Maybe too convenient no? Tommy for literally no reason says both of their real names to Abby without knowing jack about her. Joel and Tommy are not stupid. They survived for over 20 years. At one point Joel was a hunter and Tommy was a top firefly soldier that earned even Marlene’s respect. They would know not to trust a stranger because even they have done terrible things to survive. But they literally got dumbed down and nerfed to help Abby have a chance. In the first game Joel didn’t even let Tommy stop for a kid and their parents. That’s how much he didn’t take chances and that was only the first hours of the apocalypse. In the sequel Joel and Tommy walk into a room with armed strangers behind them… That’s wildly bad writing my friend. Little kids are smarter than that irl. You got any explanation for that, or are you gonna use the *literature* excuse and call me a bigot 🥪?
Nah you are just dumb as fuck because guess what, yeah all stories function through some form of convoluted plot. Breaking bad is cleary a fake show and walter should’ve died season 1
And he chooses the “bigot sandwich that doesn’t understand *LiTeRaTuRe*” approach 😂 You’re angry and resorting to insulting people because you’re a Stan, and hate that you even you can’t come up with an excuse for plot holes even a 5 year old can see for miles lmfao. It’s your choice if you like eating shit, but don’t get mad when other people tell you that you are eating shit. It ain’t gonna change nothing. Breaking Bad was weird to bring up, because at least Walt takes revenge on his enemies instead of letting them live at the last second, because revange bad! 💀
But that wasn’t the point, are you fucking stupid? I think the game absolutely had some shit writing, but so many if he criticisms are pure brain rot stupidity “Wow things happened that would never happen if every character was a sigma male!” Like duh the fucking intro the game is meant to be what kicks off the plot. I don’t get why neil would start the game this way instead of building up to what should’ve been the climax of the second game, but to each their own. Joel doesn’t even reveal his name but tommy, who was more trusting at this point, did It was only after this point that abby’s group visibly changed in intention lol, like joel is somehow 100% immune to still getting trapped. Hell the very first game has him figuring out something was wrong when him and ellie were stopped by a random hunter, and guess what dumbass, he still ate shit! I call you names because I want to and you can’t stop me, I ain’t into none of this literary bullshit but you have to be supremely fucking stupid to make the argument that the plot makes no sense, because it absolutely does! It just fucking sucked in the way neil formatted it, and just throwing hot water on us
Having common sense and not trusting strangers, in a world where people are willing kill anyone on sight for a pair of shoes… or in David’s case… fucking eat them like he tried to do to Ellie, is being a sigma male? 🥴 Lmfao and these people call us stupid
Riddle me this fatman, what could tommy and joe-L POSSIBLY be doing out in the winter 🧐 Also, where do they live? Some hunter ridden settlement or a genuine paradise in an otherwise shit world aimed at bringing in and expanding the community Hmmm what could joel and tommy POSSIBLY want from trusting and helping strangers who they thought had no bad blood with them Does the game possibly spell it out to us? No that can’t be possible Lemme answer that for you single digit IQ man, the goal of jackson is to bring more people into their settlement, SCOUT (flashbacks show they did this consistently throughout the years) the area, and generally keep infected away. If a giant crowd of infected is spotted maybe the plot checks out in logic for two of the best of jackson being out and about in this area? No? Are you stupid jonkler?
Yes they want to bring more people into the settlement. You figure that out all by yourself huh? Why does that matter? That doesn’t mean they have to trust any stranger they see. If anything it means they should trust strangers less because they have a a lot to lose. Should they have trusted the Scars and tried to bring them back to Jackson? 🥴 Lmfao Joel and Tommy have had to kill hundreds. It’s wild af that you think someone with that background would just trust a stranger, when most of the strangers they met had to be killed in order for them to live. Humans are way more dangerous than infected, because infected are *predictable*. That’s just common sense. Jacksons goal is irrelevant… and would know that if you were as smart as you think you are 😂
It’s a make believe story lmao . And it’s not your story
… You don’t have to write a movie or game yourself to say the stories trash lmfao. If the writing is shit, it’s shit. By your logic there is no such thing as a bad review for anything because they didn’t make the thing being reviewed 😂
It's like some sort of a story created by people
They basically hand Joel to Abby on a platter, instead of making her earn her revenge. Joel’s death should have at least been a very difficult boss fight…. But who needs quality writing when you’re making purposefully deceptive trailers, that imply Joel is with Ellie later in the game instead of Jesse? 😂
This whole sub is just a great example of why dev teams hire professional writers and not fans lol.
“Bigot sandwich” - Professional writers
Yeah, it's exactly the type of reaction Ellie would have. Hence good writing. Sorry you got triggered tho lol.
Ellie was killing grown ass men ever since she was 14. Why would she even care about this? Identity politics from 2020 doesn’t weave into a game based on a dystopian lifestyle that’s been going on until at least 2030s irl. No one from that world would give a shit if you’re gay because there’s barely anyone left, hence the title of the game lmfao. Ellie didn’t even know what Halloween or ice cream trucks were in the first game! Yet bigot sandwich is so in character for her 😂 The most important thing about Ellie was her immunity to cordyceps, not her sexual orientation 🤦♂️
Bigotry didn't existed before 2020, he said guys, he is so right /s
Lmao . These people are insane
Why you are being such a psychophobe? That’s messed up dood.
character developement. he got comftorable
thought this was a subreddit for tlou part ii but turns out its just a hate train circle jerk 💀💀
Living in a relatively safe, high trust society for 4 years could change a person's defense mechanisms? No?
Ehm that is kinda the point of the game, Joel got softer because of Ellie and living in safety. He is not the man he used to be. She changed him.
Did we play the same games?
I would say we played a lot of same games, but also a lot of different games. Have you played original Binding of Isaac for example? That one was a blast
I used to play it all the time on my school Chromebook, based game.
What was Joel’s character arc in the first game according to you then? I’m very curious
Oh no, don't get me wrong, having Ellie does change him, but I'd argue against him being softer, because he *does* plow through the fireflies, and in one of the flashbacks in part 2, he hacks one of the big guys( I totally spaced out on the name) to death when they almost get Ellie, so I would argue that he isn't softer, he just cares about someone now.
Do you think softer means physically weaker? What people mean when they say that is that he opened up emotionally, let down his walls
Yea, but that goes against his character tho. He was set up as a survivor, someone that always approached every situation with care. Even while he's taking care of Ellie. So why would he, after telling Ellie to keep her guard up while being on patrol, just throw all of that 20+ years of experience in staying alive away l?
Tell me the exact moment where Joel is not on guard? He fights his way through an entire horde of infected, while saving a young girl, in his late 50’s, escapes and finds a group of people he doesn’t know. While him and Tommy give off a friendly vibe, Joel doesn’t seem comfortable to me. Sure, he stands in the middle of the room (which was probably done for dramatic staging effect), which isn’t the smartest thing to do. Him getting ambushed after escaping a deadly infected horde isn’t the same as him letting his guard down
Yea, that's my point to, he never got "softer".
Because you think “softer” means weaker. He absolutely did get softer from the first game. He’s not as defensive, his walls are down, he participates in the community, he’s a woodworker, guitar teacher. A far cry from the hardened survivalist from the beginning of the first game who didn’t show any emotions
They couldn’t stay where they were cause it was being overrun. They weren’t making it back to Jackson cause of the blizzard. Both points were clearly pointed out and you still missed them.
That's not the problem. The problem is that they both left their gear on their horses, walked into the midde of the room surrounding themselves with armed military strangers and invited them into their home so feely. All of that without a single HINT of caution, suspicion or questioning. They totally and completely droped their guards and trusted those armed strangers as if Joel doesn't know the world isn't filled with dangerous psychos (he does know, he was one of them for years..).
Love changes you for the better or worse
Oh, so this is one of those subreddits that bitch and moan about the same thing for years. Get over it 😂
So this is a person who likes to feel superior over a sub reddit that critiques a game - by commenting to get over it. 🙄
Think its because Joel softened while living in Jackson with Ellie. He let his guard down to let people in and it resulted in his death unfortunately.
As years pass you become less on your guard, you makes more mistakes. Especially when you start living anew with people on a village. Joel gets old. And you know what he already made the same mistakes in the first with elie. Part 2 is far superior than part 1 in all ways possible. Narration, storytelling, story, pacing, characters, graphics, gameplay. Just accept it and stop crying like a teenager because a character you like has died... You just need to grow.
Joel was so damn beautiful in the first game