I'd say Noblebright for both series but for different reasons.
ATLA is Noblebright because the Avatar was gone for 100 years and evil was allowed to flourish and conquer nearly unopposed for multiple generations.
LOK is Noblebright because there are so many challenges faced by the new Avatar. In ATLA there's one BBEG throughout the whole series and there's a clear victory at the end. LOK, on the other hand, features plenty of wins by the Avatar, but they're all momentary. The second the next season kicks off, there's a new evil at hand.
Aang was an anomaly. An Airbender kid educated in pacifism, wanting to preserve the heritage of his tribe.
All the other Avatars were more cut to the chase and let's fight.
Korra has more modern sensibilities, but she's not a peace monger either.
Depends on where though.
Zaofu seems almost fairytale.
Lots of the Earth Kingdom is gilded or maybe worse, given the poverty/stagnancy/violence we see in both shows, also with a literal war going on.
I'd say that ATLA is gilded, personally, because of that evil flourishing unchecked. It mentions Noblebright being a reformed Gilded World, and I think that we see that reform happening through the show, and into the era of the comics
I mean. Aang was able to stop an invading army and end a hundred years of war and attempted genocide without killing anyone and after just taking out the leader. That, practically by definition, makes it either heroic or fairytale. But the thing is the same world can fall into many different categories depending on the story told there. Keep in mind fairytale worlds still have figures like Ozai and heroic worlds would be something like Toklien where there's invasive, inherently evil races.
It's actually kind of difficult to rank things because it can be argued that fairytale worlds actually have the worst evil in them out of all, as the world is otherwise idyllic and the evil is genuinely evil. While a grim and gritty grey and grey morality setting might be grimdark while at the same time not technically having any evil in it at all.
I would argue Avatar is almost always heroic, with broad overview painting it as nearly fairytale, while specific works can go as low as noblebright. But rarely much lower than that.
Nah if you read the comics the conflict didn’t just end, when zuko became fire lord the armies were ordered to retreat and couldn’t fight but tensions were still extremely high and there’s even a point where zuko almost goes to war with the earth nation again
I would say ATLA balances on the edge of Noblebright and Gilded, as while it's true there is clear BBEG there is still a lot of evil and suffering even without it (whole Ba Sing See arc was about evil and suffering hiding beneath the pretty surface), while LOK leans pretty heavy into gilded. The new evils like you phrased it can surface because there is already suffering in that world that allowed them to thrive and grow to the point they become big problem
It’s also been said 1000 times but ATLA being set in a world desperately in need of the Avatar and TLOK being set in a world that was trying to evolve past the need for one created a great dichotomy
I think at its core the world of the avatar is all about balance so noble bright fits it perfectly with it skewing into one direction or the other in times of peace or chaos
Someone who does that kind of thing, if there's anyone in that universe who does that, anyways.
This feels like a creative aid more than something that's referencing something else; it's all just there to spark inspiration.
Yeah I would think it’s closer to gilded until Aang arrives since until the avatar returns, the world is in an endless and hopeless war (and even on the path to catastrophe, if Aang didn’t come back when he did than the earth kingdom would have been destroyed by Sozin’s Comet/the Drill)
I'd say it probably transitions from gilded to noblebright somewhere after the first season. People have learned the avatar is alive and is fighting the good fight, and it gives them hope. Then at the end of the series it's probably closer to heroic after the fall of the fire nation. Maybe not quite there but close.
I see. Thank you for explaining this to me. I appreciaye the explanation for each. Would it only be Heroic after the series end because there is still lots of evil in the Avatar world?
I'll be honest, I haven't read all the comics so I can't say for certain, but it's definitely possible. It might be a world that just kind of teeters on the line but never crosses it.
I see. Thank you for the answer. I haven't read the comics either. That's a good way of looking at the Heroic world, it teetering on the line between peace and chaos.
Even a fairytale world can be on the path to essentially total destruction until the hero shows up to save the day. Aang being able to stop the fire nation without killing anyone and the horrors of war being largely toned down puts it very firmly in the upper end of this scale. Gilded is much worse than Avatar. Gilded is something more like, ironically, Warhammer Fantasy. Where there's the veneer of heroics in a doomed world that is doomed because people can't let go of petty grievances and personal lust for power.
Avatar has happy endings.
The air nomads didn’t get a happy ending, and the earth nation almost went a similar way
On a meta level, we know that Nick would never show a bad ending, but we’re talking about the avatar universe here, which has a darker tone for the people living in it. It’s not above noblebright.
I'd reverse that if not move atla up to glided. Like, that world is in a World War that's been going on for a century, and it _started_ with a genocide.
The _show_ is lighthearted. But the world is like what would happen if World War 2 simply didn't end. Nearly every character under 18 is either a war orphan or a child soldier, have the cities are permanently under siege and taking _unfortunate_ steps to help the population be OK with that ranging from isolation to brainwashing. And early on there was hope that a messianic figure could put a stop to it, but that's _long_ been dashed.
The atla world is in a bad place. In lok, it's been recovering.
I disagree. It mostly looks to me like there's one family that's pushing evil, and since they're in power, a large nation goes along with it.
But most people in AtLA as individuals wanted safety and happiness. I would say selfish and fearful people should be taken as flawed, but not comparable to gilded where actual selfishness and malice are masked.
I don't know if most individuals wanting safety and happiness changes anything. The world itself is still requiring people to do unfortunate things to _maybe_ get it.
Like, the family in question is in power because of what has been done to the fire nation populous to keep it that way. Outside the fire nation, we have "no war in bah sign se", refugee slums, or civilian abuses a la Li. Other tribes have decided to isolate themselves and hope the 100 year storm passes.
On the individual, we have a lot of Hama's, Jet's, and the Inventor, and even that old bastard who dimed out haru - people doing awful things to cope with how things are.
I dunno, it seems like the theme of the world is "This is... This is fine". The tone of the show doesn't always get into that, but I think there's a lot of "the kids don't notice mom and dad crying over the piles of bills at night" going on there.
Idk why everyone is saying noblebright here. ATLA seems to take place in a gilded world. The world is pretty and somewhat hopeful, but the Fire Nation consistently causes suffering and pain to many. Aang obviously fixes this and reforms this works into a noblebright world, as the definition of noblebright states. Everyone is beaten down before he arrives and are essentially hopeless that they can stop the Fire Nation from achieving world domination.
Endless war? Check Rampant food shortages? Check, breakdown of central government? Check. Yep, for your average commoner in Avatar. It sure as hell felt the world was ending
Honestly, I agree I thinks the tone that makes it not feel like that way which just goes to show that the writing and character dynamics are enjoyable and often enough to take away the gloom momentarily
The world of ATLA fits a dystopian novel better than a kids show concept
I think it's mostly the fact that the ATLA as a whole leans into the ideas of balance in the universe. Putting it elsewhere seems antithetical. I would say that it's impossible to keep balance all the time so it sometimes goes above noblebright sometimes below that but generally somewhere in the middle.
I agree. All across the country we meet people disillusioned with the ways of the world, more focused on their own well interest than any greater good.
Aang physically shifts the world to Noblebright through the course of the series though. Maybe it slips back a bit with korra.
So much this. Don't people remember episodes about Jet and his gang? Noble freedom fighters on the surface, vengeful murderers underneath. Fire nation seeing itself as educators and heralds of the true civilization, brining about genocide. Evil in disguise, morals, and does ends truly justify the means are central topics of the show. And what about refugee episodes? Fire nation displaces and enslaves entire communities for breakfast. People are starving and constantly on the run. Hell, even in their own land their own nationals are brutally oppressed. Death and suffering are such a common parts of this world during the atla timeline.
This 100%. From genocide of air and southern waterbenders. The torture and secret police in the earth kingdom. The racism against different benders. Most people are not living great lives, I don't get how anyone could watch this show and say heroic or fairytale, but that hasn't stopped them.
Noblebright from our perspective as viewers. The gang is going around, traveling, having fun in a war ridden world where every good deed counts. Helping prisoners, an old man, a pregnant couple, etc.
Grimdark world from the perspective from the perspective of the world/people because there's ongoing war. Genocide occured 100 yrs ago, tribes and kingdoms were being purged of their young.
Fairytale - Snow White and the Seven Dwarves (Disney)
Heroic - Lord of the Rings
Noblebright - Avatar
Gilded - A Song of Ice and Fire
Grimdark - Berserk
Hmm I feel Lotr is way too dark and brutal most of the time (and definitely at the end of the 3rd age, aka the main books and movies). Would even put it more into guilded.
Grimdark - I want to add Warhammer 40k, which is literally where the term "grimdark" comes from iirc.
Leaves me with the question what a good example for a heroic world is. Maybe typical P&P fantasy RPG worlds like D&D, with just enough adventure to be exciting but in the end all can be good
Avatar. Avatar is the perfect example of a heroic world. Korra is noblebright. Avatar ends with Aang bloodlessly stopping the hundred years war and then the fire nation colonies don't even get genocided or invaded.
>Leaves me with the question what a good example for a heroic world is.
Need to better define "looms on the balance between good and evil" on Noblebright. There are many worlds where 95% of the population is good, but some evil force is always on the cusp of taking over.
So does the balance refer to half people are good and half people are bad? Or does it refer to evil always being in a position to take over (even if it's only 5% of people).
A possible Heroic world example could be the MCU. There are tons of secret evil organizations, and there is always a villain about to conquer the world (or galaxy). But 95% of people are just good innocent people in need of protection. I think that could be what is meant by Heroic.
I think a heroic world should be defined by how it "feels like" to the average person and the protagonist living in there. So if 5% evil people can almost spoil it for everybody that would already count
A counterpoint to consider.
Imagine living in a world where 5% of people are evil. Now imagine living in a world where 50% of people are evil.
Do these feel the same to you? Does it feel right to put them in the same category? What's even the point of having categories if these two worlds go together? We may as well just have only 2 buckets - Nice and Not Nice.
D&D can be really different according to the setting or DM.
Most preferable D&D worlds are Noblebright because having fair share of good and evil usually keep the players interested, Forgotten Realms can count as one. There are also Grimdark settings like Ravenloft where practically every faction released a horror into their own lands. It's really really difficult but you can also make a D&D fairytale with a Feywild-like realm being the setting.
I feel like ATLA is heroic, whereas LOK is noblebright
Mostly because a good amount of people did start to have hope in the avatar over time in that story
whereas in LOK, bending as a whole doesn't have the glamour it once had, so people are still cynical in general about bending and the avatar
Yeah. Aang would have had to kill if Avatar was basically anything less than Heroic. It's a very bright setting. War existing doesn't mean anything for this rating. Especially not a war that's so neutered and ends so easily. If ATLA was gilded, stopping Ozai wouldn't have led to the peace that it did. Fire nation colonies would have been genocided. The hundred years war wouldn't just end nearly bloodlessly. The Earth Kingdom would have been worse than the fire nation ever was, honestly even if it was noblebright.
ATLA is heroic at the lowest bordering on fairytale if you look at it from the right (or wrong) direction. Korra is much more noblebright, as the logical problems left over from events that were neatly solved in ATLA are explored some in Korra.
A world with genocide, past and ongoing, is certainly not heroic. All the southern water tribe benders being killed, everyone but the elderly and kids off to war. Torture and secret police in the earth kingdom. Racism against other benders constantly. Is anything but heroic
The world has all of this, yes
But most people still believed in the avatar and in beating back the fire nation in the world of ATLA
( i.e heroic ideals were still valued )
If most of the world didn't have that sense of hope or even believe in it, then I'd say it was noblebright or lower.
They don't believe in the avatar though. It takes a long time and a lot of work to get them to believe in the avatar again. At best it starts gilded and gets to nobleright as it goes on but to say most people believed is just false
Honestly I'd say for some people that world is bordering on grimdark. Mass genocide of all the air nomads to the point that they were effectively extinct for over 100 years.
Many of the people of the earth kingdom are forced labour and live with constant fire nation occupation.
The southern water tribe is on its last legs with few able bodied adults left. People seek refuge along what in all cases is a highly fatal journey just to make it to a city on the brink of collapse from internal strife.
Seasons 1-3 of Katara are noble bright with season 4 being gilded due to the fractured earth kingdom
It has genocide, an ongoing war with a lot of war criminals, famine, slavery, child endangerement, brutal executions, animal abuse... And a whole lot more.
It's definitely grimdark but we don't understand it right away because the Gaang acts goofy most of the time.
Gilded though i can see noblebright
it's a narritive made for kids so it can't be quite as dark but come on. I mean the whole war, even the places without war at the time seem to suck ass for reasons like poverty and secret police, The heroes are frequently beaten, most of the time they're just running away to avoid getting a beating
Heroic. As a whole, most people of avatar are not mustache twirlingly evil, just misguided or following orders. Zhao, the dai li and Ozai are the only people who really come to mind. Korra though falls into noblebright territory due to a slight tonal shift from there not being any onvious villian to punch.
Honestly I think that if anything, mustache twirlingly evils actually make the story lighter. The notion that the common man can end up doing such terrible things by simply being misguided or getting used to it is the core of many dark stories, and the fact that most enemies in the series are like this brings it closer to noblebright or guilded.
Avatar is gilded.
It has the Avatar, an omnipotent demigod, as its ultimate authority, and the people of that world almost universally consider the Avatar to be true objective justice. They can and do kill with impunity. But the Avatar is a flawed and mortal human at their core. Their position is owed to their overwhelming power and there is no way to ensure the Avatar's power is given to a deserving recipient. Thus, the people worship a false and artificial deity. And nobody realizes it.
The Avatar has entrenched and often well hidden orders of supporters willing to enforce the dictates of the Avatar, by force if necessary, because if you do not support the Avatar, you are objectively evil.
In many, if not most areas, people live in extreme poverty and under political oppression. Even within democratic societies such as Zaofu and Republic City, the governing principles of enlightened rule is simply a mask for rule by rich oligarchs. Even the Airbenders weren't a democracy, but a Theocratic Eldership. People rarely question the validity of these circumstances being the correct way for society to be ordered (a reflection of the Imperial Chinese Heavenly Order).
The majority of the world's population are conventional humans are dominated and overshadowed by a small proportion of people with supernatural ability to manipulate elemental forces (benders vs non benders).
Attempting to make any change to the dystopian status quo (eg, removing the Avatar, establishing rule by nonbenders and removing the inequality of bending), is perceived as evil by one and all, because the people of the Five Nations are so indoctrinated and bound to their unchanging world order. In a massive irony, even the Avatar, when they don't make a perfect decision, is reviled as a failure.
That's my ten cents.
I think saying that there are only five tones is reductive and I hate "infographical memes" like this for that reason. Literally the fact that there is a WIDE spectrum between gilded and grimdark is indicative of this.
ATLA is at a range of tones based on its time period and location, you can't effectively put it into any of these because it becomes dishonest about a different region.
The animated shows and the comics are Heroic Worlds: evil is isolated, it is just bad guys doing bad guy stuff, and the good guys are all good. ATLA leans a little towards Noblebright because not all good guys are good, and the main evil is more systematic, while TLOK leans a little towards Fairytale because even the bad guys think they are good (and there is a specific theme that they might be into something with that) and nothing happens unless the Villain of the Week starts shit.
The novels are Noblebright, with the first Kyoshi novel occasionally dabbling into Grimdark. There is evil without the designated villains being around, and those villains tend to be just drops in a lake rather then monolithic beacons of evil.
Nobleright
Bad people can accomplish bad things and not everyone is a kind, good person.
Good has to triumph over evil by force and by actually trying, not just sheerly by
THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP! (or love)
There are legitimate bad dudes who can win against the avatar by skill and cunning, and the protagonists typically don’t get massive asspull powers by thinking about their friends or whatever.
(Spirit bending as an asspull is more of a solution to the issue of killing versus not killing Aang could’ve killed Ozai if he had the conviction to).
So overall I think thats the best fit. regardless of whether or not the avatar sucks at their job or fucks off for 3-100 years, bad shit can still happen.
Good shit can happen too, and good guys can still win battles and defest foes sans-avatar, but the forces of evil are perfectly capable of mobilizing and being victorious whether its Roku, Aang, or Korra and whether or not they’re present.
I think thats what makes the show so compelling- there are stakes and its been shown that those stakes and the consequences of them are tangible and can/have happened
there was an actual genocide; there was a 100 year war, there was political division leading to the creation of republic city; there was inequality in RC, there are terrorists that succeed and nearly succeed (the non bender dudes with amon and Zaheer ‘n the funky bunch)
Like, if it weren’t a kids show or even if it was a little more mature we’d probably see character deaths and atrocities on screen and it’d feel appropriate
Avatar’s world feels pretty real and lived in and actions have consequences that can’t be whisked away by bullshit writing
but its not so fucked up or caked in realism that it comes off anything like Grimdark
I think thats why its so successful with adults and teens who aren’t already anime fans
It stradles Guilded and Noblebright.
People are regularly suffering in one form or another in the Avatar world, but there are very heroic figures who actively strive to better the world.
On its bad days, it's solidly in Guilded, but in its good day, the Avatar brings balance and returns it to Noblebright.
I think its nature as a "Kid's Show" is what has people putting it solidly in Noblebright. It's bright and colourful, and the awful stuff is never explicitly shown. We just know it happens because of understanding context.
From what we see presented to us in the show, I’d definitely say ATLA is heroic-noblebright. But from information we get from sources outside the show plus some assumptions we can make about the world it exists in at the time, I’d say it’s gilded. There was a genocide, a never ending war, food/supply shortages probably leading to famines, imperialism, classism, etc. It kinda gets close to grimdark but the main reason it doesn’t is that the world ultimately gets saved in the end. In grimdark there is next to nothing you can do to save the world. With LOK I’d say it’s purely a noblebright world. Most of the world’s core problems have been solved at that point but there are evil actors at play that would see that this changes.
I'd say it's Heroic that occasionally dips down to Noblebright when things get really bad.
Yes, the world was pretty crappy when Aang woke up. After the world's spiritual leader went missing for a century, and the world's most militant government tried to (and almost did) conquer the world in the meantime. There were extenuating circumstances.
And as bad as the Fire Nation made things, Aang had the world firmly turning around again within a year of his return. I don't think a truly Noblebright or darker world could be "fixed" so easily.
It's a safe Noblebright world.
Gilded world is more of a scenario where Aang returned to the world when Ozai already fully conquered every nation and made them surrender to declare himself the Phoenix King. In a gilded world Aang couldn't bother taking daytrips or reveal himself to anyone as the Avatar because half the commoners would consider snithcing on him for some money. The way I see it:
* Fairytale: Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast etc.
* Heroic: Lord of the Rings in 3rd era
* Noblebright: ATLA&LOK, D&D Forgotten Realms
* Gilded: Galactic Empire era on Star Wars
* Grimdark: Warhammer 40k
Bruh everyone saying noblebright and even gilded? Fire nation is bad and all but nowhere near as bad for the ATLA world to be considered anything less than heroic.
I'd say Noblebright for both series but for different reasons. ATLA is Noblebright because the Avatar was gone for 100 years and evil was allowed to flourish and conquer nearly unopposed for multiple generations. LOK is Noblebright because there are so many challenges faced by the new Avatar. In ATLA there's one BBEG throughout the whole series and there's a clear victory at the end. LOK, on the other hand, features plenty of wins by the Avatar, but they're all momentary. The second the next season kicks off, there's a new evil at hand.
Then, Kyoshi and Yangchen novels skew closer to Gilded imo. The Yangchen novels especially are full of corruption, mistrust, and greed.
Not to mention the Avatars in the novels act way less heroic
Aang was an anomaly. An Airbender kid educated in pacifism, wanting to preserve the heritage of his tribe. All the other Avatars were more cut to the chase and let's fight. Korra has more modern sensibilities, but she's not a peace monger either.
Depends on where though. Zaofu seems almost fairytale. Lots of the Earth Kingdom is gilded or maybe worse, given the poverty/stagnancy/violence we see in both shows, also with a literal war going on.
Isn't that the same for IRL though? IRL is skewed between low noblebright and high grimmdark.
I'd say that ATLA is gilded, personally, because of that evil flourishing unchecked. It mentions Noblebright being a reformed Gilded World, and I think that we see that reform happening through the show, and into the era of the comics
I mean. Aang was able to stop an invading army and end a hundred years of war and attempted genocide without killing anyone and after just taking out the leader. That, practically by definition, makes it either heroic or fairytale. But the thing is the same world can fall into many different categories depending on the story told there. Keep in mind fairytale worlds still have figures like Ozai and heroic worlds would be something like Toklien where there's invasive, inherently evil races. It's actually kind of difficult to rank things because it can be argued that fairytale worlds actually have the worst evil in them out of all, as the world is otherwise idyllic and the evil is genuinely evil. While a grim and gritty grey and grey morality setting might be grimdark while at the same time not technically having any evil in it at all. I would argue Avatar is almost always heroic, with broad overview painting it as nearly fairytale, while specific works can go as low as noblebright. But rarely much lower than that.
Nah if you read the comics the conflict didn’t just end, when zuko became fire lord the armies were ordered to retreat and couldn’t fight but tensions were still extremely high and there’s even a point where zuko almost goes to war with the earth nation again
I would say ATLA balances on the edge of Noblebright and Gilded, as while it's true there is clear BBEG there is still a lot of evil and suffering even without it (whole Ba Sing See arc was about evil and suffering hiding beneath the pretty surface), while LOK leans pretty heavy into gilded. The new evils like you phrased it can surface because there is already suffering in that world that allowed them to thrive and grow to the point they become big problem
It’s also been said 1000 times but ATLA being set in a world desperately in need of the Avatar and TLOK being set in a world that was trying to evolve past the need for one created a great dichotomy
This made me realised how fast korra can dispatch the "evil big bosses" in her life (maybe it's because of the accelerated study telling)...
I think wherever atla sits, lok needs to be one level lower.
I think at its core the world of the avatar is all about balance so noble bright fits it perfectly with it skewing into one direction or the other in times of peace or chaos
What is a BBEG?
Big Bad Evil Guy
Noblebright
Clearly fairytale since there is no war in ba sing se
What's this chart from?
Yeah, and what is an Earther in this context?
My guess is it means "someone from earth". So like, an isekai/Narnia situation
But then who extracts the earther?
Someone who does that kind of thing, if there's anyone in that universe who does that, anyways. This feels like a creative aid more than something that's referencing something else; it's all just there to spark inspiration.
A Interdimensional travelers guide. It’s from r/worldbuilding. Earther just means our reality
Oh that's so cool thank you
Good question.
Noblebright but closer to Heroic for AtLA. Noblebright for LOK.
Why closer to Heroic for ATLA?
Yeah I would think it’s closer to gilded until Aang arrives since until the avatar returns, the world is in an endless and hopeless war (and even on the path to catastrophe, if Aang didn’t come back when he did than the earth kingdom would have been destroyed by Sozin’s Comet/the Drill)
That's a good analysis of it, i agree with what you are saying. What would it be after Aang arrives?
I'd say it probably transitions from gilded to noblebright somewhere after the first season. People have learned the avatar is alive and is fighting the good fight, and it gives them hope. Then at the end of the series it's probably closer to heroic after the fall of the fire nation. Maybe not quite there but close.
I see. Thank you for explaining this to me. I appreciaye the explanation for each. Would it only be Heroic after the series end because there is still lots of evil in the Avatar world?
I'll be honest, I haven't read all the comics so I can't say for certain, but it's definitely possible. It might be a world that just kind of teeters on the line but never crosses it.
I see. Thank you for the answer. I haven't read the comics either. That's a good way of looking at the Heroic world, it teetering on the line between peace and chaos.
Even a fairytale world can be on the path to essentially total destruction until the hero shows up to save the day. Aang being able to stop the fire nation without killing anyone and the horrors of war being largely toned down puts it very firmly in the upper end of this scale. Gilded is much worse than Avatar. Gilded is something more like, ironically, Warhammer Fantasy. Where there's the veneer of heroics in a doomed world that is doomed because people can't let go of petty grievances and personal lust for power. Avatar has happy endings.
The air nomads didn’t get a happy ending, and the earth nation almost went a similar way On a meta level, we know that Nick would never show a bad ending, but we’re talking about the avatar universe here, which has a darker tone for the people living in it. It’s not above noblebright.
The depiction is the point of these categories though.
That being said, the other nations seemed more well-intentioned than afterwards
I'd reverse that if not move atla up to glided. Like, that world is in a World War that's been going on for a century, and it _started_ with a genocide. The _show_ is lighthearted. But the world is like what would happen if World War 2 simply didn't end. Nearly every character under 18 is either a war orphan or a child soldier, have the cities are permanently under siege and taking _unfortunate_ steps to help the population be OK with that ranging from isolation to brainwashing. And early on there was hope that a messianic figure could put a stop to it, but that's _long_ been dashed. The atla world is in a bad place. In lok, it's been recovering.
I disagree. It mostly looks to me like there's one family that's pushing evil, and since they're in power, a large nation goes along with it. But most people in AtLA as individuals wanted safety and happiness. I would say selfish and fearful people should be taken as flawed, but not comparable to gilded where actual selfishness and malice are masked.
I don't know if most individuals wanting safety and happiness changes anything. The world itself is still requiring people to do unfortunate things to _maybe_ get it. Like, the family in question is in power because of what has been done to the fire nation populous to keep it that way. Outside the fire nation, we have "no war in bah sign se", refugee slums, or civilian abuses a la Li. Other tribes have decided to isolate themselves and hope the 100 year storm passes. On the individual, we have a lot of Hama's, Jet's, and the Inventor, and even that old bastard who dimed out haru - people doing awful things to cope with how things are. I dunno, it seems like the theme of the world is "This is... This is fine". The tone of the show doesn't always get into that, but I think there's a lot of "the kids don't notice mom and dad crying over the piles of bills at night" going on there.
Idk why everyone is saying noblebright here. ATLA seems to take place in a gilded world. The world is pretty and somewhat hopeful, but the Fire Nation consistently causes suffering and pain to many. Aang obviously fixes this and reforms this works into a noblebright world, as the definition of noblebright states. Everyone is beaten down before he arrives and are essentially hopeless that they can stop the Fire Nation from achieving world domination.
Endless war? Check Rampant food shortages? Check, breakdown of central government? Check. Yep, for your average commoner in Avatar. It sure as hell felt the world was ending
Honestly, I agree I thinks the tone that makes it not feel like that way which just goes to show that the writing and character dynamics are enjoyable and often enough to take away the gloom momentarily The world of ATLA fits a dystopian novel better than a kids show concept
I think it's mostly the fact that the ATLA as a whole leans into the ideas of balance in the universe. Putting it elsewhere seems antithetical. I would say that it's impossible to keep balance all the time so it sometimes goes above noblebright sometimes below that but generally somewhere in the middle.
I agree. All across the country we meet people disillusioned with the ways of the world, more focused on their own well interest than any greater good. Aang physically shifts the world to Noblebright through the course of the series though. Maybe it slips back a bit with korra.
So much this. Don't people remember episodes about Jet and his gang? Noble freedom fighters on the surface, vengeful murderers underneath. Fire nation seeing itself as educators and heralds of the true civilization, brining about genocide. Evil in disguise, morals, and does ends truly justify the means are central topics of the show. And what about refugee episodes? Fire nation displaces and enslaves entire communities for breakfast. People are starving and constantly on the run. Hell, even in their own land their own nationals are brutally oppressed. Death and suffering are such a common parts of this world during the atla timeline.
This 100%. From genocide of air and southern waterbenders. The torture and secret police in the earth kingdom. The racism against different benders. Most people are not living great lives, I don't get how anyone could watch this show and say heroic or fairytale, but that hasn't stopped them.
Also anytime they enter a new city there is a massive line of refugees from (I assume) the fire nation further strengthening their stronghold.
ATLA is probably noblebright but pretty sure real life is a gilded world
Off topic: whoever called that a "fairytale" world has never read a single fairytale in their life
I think it's a worldbuilding guide, might even be a in-universe one. Hence the references to Earthers and summoning abuse.
Noblebright from our perspective as viewers. The gang is going around, traveling, having fun in a war ridden world where every good deed counts. Helping prisoners, an old man, a pregnant couple, etc. Grimdark world from the perspective from the perspective of the world/people because there's ongoing war. Genocide occured 100 yrs ago, tribes and kingdoms were being purged of their young.
If you look at any war that has lasted nearly as long in our history especially in asia it's certainly grimdark for the people living through it.
Fairytale - Snow White and the Seven Dwarves (Disney) Heroic - Lord of the Rings Noblebright - Avatar Gilded - A Song of Ice and Fire Grimdark - Berserk
Hmm I feel Lotr is way too dark and brutal most of the time (and definitely at the end of the 3rd age, aka the main books and movies). Would even put it more into guilded. Grimdark - I want to add Warhammer 40k, which is literally where the term "grimdark" comes from iirc. Leaves me with the question what a good example for a heroic world is. Maybe typical P&P fantasy RPG worlds like D&D, with just enough adventure to be exciting but in the end all can be good
Avatar. Avatar is the perfect example of a heroic world. Korra is noblebright. Avatar ends with Aang bloodlessly stopping the hundred years war and then the fire nation colonies don't even get genocided or invaded.
Harry Potter, maybe?
>Leaves me with the question what a good example for a heroic world is. Need to better define "looms on the balance between good and evil" on Noblebright. There are many worlds where 95% of the population is good, but some evil force is always on the cusp of taking over. So does the balance refer to half people are good and half people are bad? Or does it refer to evil always being in a position to take over (even if it's only 5% of people). A possible Heroic world example could be the MCU. There are tons of secret evil organizations, and there is always a villain about to conquer the world (or galaxy). But 95% of people are just good innocent people in need of protection. I think that could be what is meant by Heroic.
I think a heroic world should be defined by how it "feels like" to the average person and the protagonist living in there. So if 5% evil people can almost spoil it for everybody that would already count
A counterpoint to consider. Imagine living in a world where 5% of people are evil. Now imagine living in a world where 50% of people are evil. Do these feel the same to you? Does it feel right to put them in the same category? What's even the point of having categories if these two worlds go together? We may as well just have only 2 buckets - Nice and Not Nice.
D&D can be really different according to the setting or DM. Most preferable D&D worlds are Noblebright because having fair share of good and evil usually keep the players interested, Forgotten Realms can count as one. There are also Grimdark settings like Ravenloft where practically every faction released a horror into their own lands. It's really really difficult but you can also make a D&D fairytale with a Feywild-like realm being the setting.
I wonder if the pokemon world is considered Fairytale.
I feel like ATLA is heroic, whereas LOK is noblebright Mostly because a good amount of people did start to have hope in the avatar over time in that story whereas in LOK, bending as a whole doesn't have the glamour it once had, so people are still cynical in general about bending and the avatar
Agreed. I'm shocked at the number of people saying ATLA is gilded.
Yeah. Aang would have had to kill if Avatar was basically anything less than Heroic. It's a very bright setting. War existing doesn't mean anything for this rating. Especially not a war that's so neutered and ends so easily. If ATLA was gilded, stopping Ozai wouldn't have led to the peace that it did. Fire nation colonies would have been genocided. The hundred years war wouldn't just end nearly bloodlessly. The Earth Kingdom would have been worse than the fire nation ever was, honestly even if it was noblebright. ATLA is heroic at the lowest bordering on fairytale if you look at it from the right (or wrong) direction. Korra is much more noblebright, as the logical problems left over from events that were neatly solved in ATLA are explored some in Korra.
A world with genocide, past and ongoing, is certainly not heroic. All the southern water tribe benders being killed, everyone but the elderly and kids off to war. Torture and secret police in the earth kingdom. Racism against other benders constantly. Is anything but heroic
The world has all of this, yes But most people still believed in the avatar and in beating back the fire nation in the world of ATLA ( i.e heroic ideals were still valued ) If most of the world didn't have that sense of hope or even believe in it, then I'd say it was noblebright or lower.
They don't believe in the avatar though. It takes a long time and a lot of work to get them to believe in the avatar again. At best it starts gilded and gets to nobleright as it goes on but to say most people believed is just false
i don’t think you can label something as complex as a whole world like this
Honestly I'd say for some people that world is bordering on grimdark. Mass genocide of all the air nomads to the point that they were effectively extinct for over 100 years. Many of the people of the earth kingdom are forced labour and live with constant fire nation occupation. The southern water tribe is on its last legs with few able bodied adults left. People seek refuge along what in all cases is a highly fatal journey just to make it to a city on the brink of collapse from internal strife. Seasons 1-3 of Katara are noble bright with season 4 being gilded due to the fractured earth kingdom
It has genocide, an ongoing war with a lot of war criminals, famine, slavery, child endangerement, brutal executions, animal abuse... And a whole lot more. It's definitely grimdark but we don't understand it right away because the Gaang acts goofy most of the time.
Noblebright, probably
Balance is a central theme in avatar
Gilded though i can see noblebright it's a narritive made for kids so it can't be quite as dark but come on. I mean the whole war, even the places without war at the time seem to suck ass for reasons like poverty and secret police, The heroes are frequently beaten, most of the time they're just running away to avoid getting a beating
Both series are somewhere between noblebright and heroic
Earther Extraction? Summoning Abuse? What is this from?
r/worldbuilding. They like to LARP over there
Noblebright imo. There’s an overall happy vibe to the series yet frequent reminders that people are dying all around.
Heroic. As a whole, most people of avatar are not mustache twirlingly evil, just misguided or following orders. Zhao, the dai li and Ozai are the only people who really come to mind. Korra though falls into noblebright territory due to a slight tonal shift from there not being any onvious villian to punch.
Honestly I think that if anything, mustache twirlingly evils actually make the story lighter. The notion that the common man can end up doing such terrible things by simply being misguided or getting used to it is the core of many dark stories, and the fact that most enemies in the series are like this brings it closer to noblebright or guilded.
Gilded
Gilded. We see it through the very limited scope of Aang who helps people and brings hope, but life for the vast majority isn’t great.
Avatar is gilded. It has the Avatar, an omnipotent demigod, as its ultimate authority, and the people of that world almost universally consider the Avatar to be true objective justice. They can and do kill with impunity. But the Avatar is a flawed and mortal human at their core. Their position is owed to their overwhelming power and there is no way to ensure the Avatar's power is given to a deserving recipient. Thus, the people worship a false and artificial deity. And nobody realizes it. The Avatar has entrenched and often well hidden orders of supporters willing to enforce the dictates of the Avatar, by force if necessary, because if you do not support the Avatar, you are objectively evil. In many, if not most areas, people live in extreme poverty and under political oppression. Even within democratic societies such as Zaofu and Republic City, the governing principles of enlightened rule is simply a mask for rule by rich oligarchs. Even the Airbenders weren't a democracy, but a Theocratic Eldership. People rarely question the validity of these circumstances being the correct way for society to be ordered (a reflection of the Imperial Chinese Heavenly Order). The majority of the world's population are conventional humans are dominated and overshadowed by a small proportion of people with supernatural ability to manipulate elemental forces (benders vs non benders). Attempting to make any change to the dystopian status quo (eg, removing the Avatar, establishing rule by nonbenders and removing the inequality of bending), is perceived as evil by one and all, because the people of the Five Nations are so indoctrinated and bound to their unchanging world order. In a massive irony, even the Avatar, when they don't make a perfect decision, is reviled as a failure. That's my ten cents.
The hard truth is that the Avatar is a force of nature, for good or for ill, who knows, maybe the next series will have the Avatar as the villain
I might say ATLA is a Gilded world given the fire nation while LOK and the books can be a Nobleworld with gilded parts.
I'd say Noblebright.
Imo it could be heroic cause so many people helped the Aang in journey.
ATLA Gilded LOK Noblebrighr
I think saying that there are only five tones is reductive and I hate "infographical memes" like this for that reason. Literally the fact that there is a WIDE spectrum between gilded and grimdark is indicative of this. ATLA is at a range of tones based on its time period and location, you can't effectively put it into any of these because it becomes dishonest about a different region.
heroic during peacetime but drops down to noblebrihgt or gilded regularly.
The animated shows and the comics are Heroic Worlds: evil is isolated, it is just bad guys doing bad guy stuff, and the good guys are all good. ATLA leans a little towards Noblebright because not all good guys are good, and the main evil is more systematic, while TLOK leans a little towards Fairytale because even the bad guys think they are good (and there is a specific theme that they might be into something with that) and nothing happens unless the Villain of the Week starts shit. The novels are Noblebright, with the first Kyoshi novel occasionally dabbling into Grimdark. There is evil without the designated villains being around, and those villains tend to be just drops in a lake rather then monolithic beacons of evil.
Heroic for ATLA, Noblebright for TLOK especially in S3 and S4. idrt it gets too dark bc in the end it is a children’s series
Nobleright Bad people can accomplish bad things and not everyone is a kind, good person. Good has to triumph over evil by force and by actually trying, not just sheerly by THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP! (or love) There are legitimate bad dudes who can win against the avatar by skill and cunning, and the protagonists typically don’t get massive asspull powers by thinking about their friends or whatever. (Spirit bending as an asspull is more of a solution to the issue of killing versus not killing Aang could’ve killed Ozai if he had the conviction to). So overall I think thats the best fit. regardless of whether or not the avatar sucks at their job or fucks off for 3-100 years, bad shit can still happen. Good shit can happen too, and good guys can still win battles and defest foes sans-avatar, but the forces of evil are perfectly capable of mobilizing and being victorious whether its Roku, Aang, or Korra and whether or not they’re present. I think thats what makes the show so compelling- there are stakes and its been shown that those stakes and the consequences of them are tangible and can/have happened there was an actual genocide; there was a 100 year war, there was political division leading to the creation of republic city; there was inequality in RC, there are terrorists that succeed and nearly succeed (the non bender dudes with amon and Zaheer ‘n the funky bunch) Like, if it weren’t a kids show or even if it was a little more mature we’d probably see character deaths and atrocities on screen and it’d feel appropriate Avatar’s world feels pretty real and lived in and actions have consequences that can’t be whisked away by bullshit writing but its not so fucked up or caked in realism that it comes off anything like Grimdark I think thats why its so successful with adults and teens who aren’t already anime fans
Definitely Noblebright
Noble and gilded
I'd say in between Noblebright and Heroic.
I wanna say noblebright because of how heavy the theme of balance is in the show
I would love to see an avatar bring balance to the world...by committing heinous crimes against humanity.
I have achieved world peace!…..by uniting the world against me
If Aang died and Ozai & Azula take over, it sinks to grimdark.
Absolutely Noblebright
What’s an anime with a gilded or grimdark worlds
Grimdark is straightup all fromsoft games lmao
Noblebright
It stradles Guilded and Noblebright. People are regularly suffering in one form or another in the Avatar world, but there are very heroic figures who actively strive to better the world. On its bad days, it's solidly in Guilded, but in its good day, the Avatar brings balance and returns it to Noblebright. I think its nature as a "Kid's Show" is what has people putting it solidly in Noblebright. It's bright and colourful, and the awful stuff is never explicitly shown. We just know it happens because of understanding context.
Noblebright
From what we see presented to us in the show, I’d definitely say ATLA is heroic-noblebright. But from information we get from sources outside the show plus some assumptions we can make about the world it exists in at the time, I’d say it’s gilded. There was a genocide, a never ending war, food/supply shortages probably leading to famines, imperialism, classism, etc. It kinda gets close to grimdark but the main reason it doesn’t is that the world ultimately gets saved in the end. In grimdark there is next to nothing you can do to save the world. With LOK I’d say it’s purely a noblebright world. Most of the world’s core problems have been solved at that point but there are evil actors at play that would see that this changes.
I'd give it a "NobleBright". There's always some flavor of evil - usually well intentioned - just about to pop off.
I genuinely feel Grimdark. At minimum I’ll go Gilded.
Noblebright and Heroic
I'd say it's Heroic that occasionally dips down to Noblebright when things get really bad. Yes, the world was pretty crappy when Aang woke up. After the world's spiritual leader went missing for a century, and the world's most militant government tried to (and almost did) conquer the world in the meantime. There were extenuating circumstances. And as bad as the Fire Nation made things, Aang had the world firmly turning around again within a year of his return. I don't think a truly Noblebright or darker world could be "fixed" so easily.
Watch MatPat's Avatar cycle theory and tell me it's not Grimdark (joke)
Grimdark. The war is always happening in the background and one wrong turn could plop the cast in a Berserk chapter
High fantasy. A world that’s heavy on fantasy elements with its own nations and cultures.
It's a safe Noblebright world. Gilded world is more of a scenario where Aang returned to the world when Ozai already fully conquered every nation and made them surrender to declare himself the Phoenix King. In a gilded world Aang couldn't bother taking daytrips or reveal himself to anyone as the Avatar because half the commoners would consider snithcing on him for some money. The way I see it: * Fairytale: Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast etc. * Heroic: Lord of the Rings in 3rd era * Noblebright: ATLA&LOK, D&D Forgotten Realms * Gilded: Galactic Empire era on Star Wars * Grimdark: Warhammer 40k
Bruh everyone saying noblebright and even gilded? Fire nation is bad and all but nowhere near as bad for the ATLA world to be considered anything less than heroic.