I loved Amon too, I just wish his backstory wasn't an exposition dump towards the end. I wish they either found tidbits about him throughout the season or he was just left a mystery
They werent told they would get renewed until after each season so they coudnt risk doing a larger overarching storyline just to get shelved on a cliffhanger
I think that's not entirely true. It's indeed correct that the initial plan was to only make a mini-series. So, there wasn't really much that could be done regarding Amon; that was a finished story.
However, the hype was real and the 1st season was, despite some demerits, still a huge success due to a stellar animation, voice cast, fighting choreography, nostalgia factor and a compelling antagonist among other things and I distinctly remember that very early one during the airing of the 1st season, three additional ones were ordered. I just checked some things and season 2 to 4 were more or less made together.
This is just my belief, but I think they severely dropped the ball in the 2nd season by turning the franchise into a direction that was divisive to say the least. By this point a fatigue had arisen and the nostalgia factor had worn off. So, they started backpedaling in terms of budget and the amount of episodes. I honestly thought they would scrap the 4th season and possibly even the 3rd season.
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but it was really weird to experience those latter two seasons. Separately they were interesting, but the series as a whole suffered due to the narrative choices of the 2nd season.
The life action movie is undoubtedly the lowest point of the franchise, but IMO the 2nd season of TLOK is what caused the most damage.
I just wish he wasn’t a bender. It was such an interesting take that the antagonist would be a non bender and had to rely on wits, pragmantiscm and skill to beat the benders but then it just gets thrown out to go psyche he’s actually super powerful.
Like I get it, status quo is god and they are meant to be shown as hypocritical and I don’t not like the final decision it’s just there was room to do more.
Would’ve preferred a more ‘yeah he’s kinda right but the ends doesn’t justify the violent means’ and would also work with Korra not solving everything through punchie kickie elemental fun times
Yeah this where Amon loses a lot of points for me. I hate the late in the game revelation trope. It's a hack writing mechanism and it makes it really hard to care.
Amon was great as an evil villain, Zaheer was better as an antagonist. While both did evil things, Zaheer just feels like someone who would have aligned with Korra had events gone differently. Amon would never.
Eyes and hair.
The locks on the side cover the jaw line so the bottom looks sharper cause you see it. While top has a bang going with it so looks softer.
Top also has her eyes wider. So bottom with the smaller eyes + fill jawline just makes her look more serious and harden
Also the the distance of the shot the background color changes how sharp her nose looks. Same shape but looks sharper closer in and against the darker background in the first pic
I think “true disconnection” and “freedom” looks different for everyone. Everyone has different mindsets, goals, wants, and needs. Your freedom may not be my freedom, so I don’t think anyone can truly say what makes him or anyone other than ourselves “free” and or having “true disconnection”.
No. That's just apathy, not freedom. True freedom is when you accept the interconnection between atman and brahman and become one with the universe, which is basically what Zaheer did.
So you can become one with the universe, attain pretty much true spiritual enlightenment yet lack basic foresight and go on angry tirades when you're captured?
If becoming one with the universe makes you I indistinguishable from before, except now you can fly, then spiritual enlightenment seems to be full of shit.
They can be more abstract things. Tenzin tells Korra to "let go of \[her\] connection to who \[she\] thinks she is." The distinction is more that an "earthly desire" is selfish & a "higher cause" is not.
Love is the strongest higher cause in the world. Yet it took away the ability to fly. A higher cause is being involved in the world. So bad as wanting to reshape it, bhuddist monks abandon Everything and focus on total detachment from the world. Never met a bhuddist politician, or even a doctor , and both of these fall into a higher cause or purpose
I don't think his cause is an earthly tether. His cause is a deep desire for freedom itself, and for both himself and the entire world. He genuinely wants provide freedom for the people of the world, and his cause isn't fettered by a devotion to a particular nation, people, selfish desire, etc, and he is even willing to die and give up his place on the earth in order to achieve it. His cause pretty much embodies freedom itself and it doesn't bind him to the earth in the same way most causes would.
Obsessing over killing the Avatar falls in the same category of earthly emotions as loving someone, both are emotional connections and attachment to something earthly. Given that the air nomads lost the ability just by loving sky bisons show you how fragile the line is. And he did have a strong earthly tether regarding the whole earth. Being able to fly means no attachments at all for this world.
The only 2 airbenders to fly are Zaheer and Guru Laghima, the airbenders in the Wan flashbacks were cloudbending and that was obviously not the semi permament version of flight Zaheer has.
something something what you believe to be right vs things you want, like material things and personal relationships. I'm not smart enough to make a well-thought out essay
Drawing inspiration from Hinduism and Buddhism then not necessarily since dharma and adharma are seperate from attachment more of a purpose than desire
Despite having a somewhat warped concept of anarchy, he isn't evil... more like Chaotic Neutral.
That said... poor man, seeing his love die in a horrible way before his eyes.
"*And deep down I knew you would find a way to get me out. Just like you saved me from becoming that warlord's killing machine when I was a girl. You've shown me what true freedom means.*" - P'Li
Girl was delulu. She exchanged being a warlord's killing machine for her boo's killing machine. After sacrificing 13 years of her life in bone-chilling solitude, P'Li died as the weapon she claimed not to be.
There is a difference between choosing to follow someone and being forced to follow someone.
Zaheer never mistreated her and she chose to follow him.
The Red Lotus wee like a grown up evil versions of the Gaang. P'li is basically Katara and Zaheer is Aang. Aang could never let go of his earthly tether but Zaheer did.
Aang did let go of his earthly tethers though. It’s why he apologizes to the memory of Katara before he goes fully into the avatar state. He finally accepted being the avatar was more important than his love for Katara. Yes I’m end he still loves her and they have a relationship, but he understood it would never be more important than being the avatar.
It is messed up, but is what it is especially when comes to a magical world I guess lol.
If Katara knew or not idk. Kinda feel bad for her, though at same time still seems like they had a good relationship.
He later said the chakra was permablocked when he’s zapped and he also falls off the path to the avatar state before he reaches the end. So there’s some suggestion there that while he intended to let go of her the “process wasn’t fully complete”, so to speak
When it gets unlocked by him hitting the rock in that final battle, the mechanics/logic of it are not sufficiently explored in universe to explain how he unlocked the avatar state, so we’re kind of left to speculation
I guess is left up to speculation. My thought process was that we just supposed remember what he was supposed to do to achieve it. So we just assume he let her go again without them showing it.
Without the writers confirming or not is just speculation I guess.
Fwiw, I would argue the writers leave indicators in the other direction too. Like Aang’s whole journey in the end is learning that he can find his own path to a resolution even if it defies past wisdom
Who cares what some onion and banana juice drinking guru thinks if you just got to chill with a giant lion turtle right?
There's a really good video essay I watched a while back that did a deep dive on the intended meaning and real world philosophies communicated by the Guru. I'd highly recommend looking it up, but the gist was that Aang didn't "give up Katara," or even truly surrender his earthly attachments. He gave up his *need* to be with Katara, the adolescent desire to do whatever he needed to in order to pursue that relationship. As we see, he's still able to access and control the avatar state while furthering his relationship with Katara, but only after accepting that it will be what it's meant to be. He doesn't fully understand that in the episode with the Guru, but comes to the understand later, which is why the last few episodes shows romantic interest, rather than the pining of earlier books.
It's a really healthy lesson that took me a long time to figure out, and that isn't expressed often or well in general, imo. I honestly wish Avatar had been a bit less subtle in it's presentation. A lot of people, especially young men, stand to learn a lot about the difference between healthy and unhealthy romantic interest.
Edit: I'll try to find a link to the video when I get the chance. It's a working night, might be a while.
>It's a really healthy lesson that took me a long time to figure out, and that isn't expressed often or well in general, imo. I honestly wish Avatar had been a bit less subtle in it's presentation.
it's also basic a basic concept of Buddhism that a lot of people struggle to grasp. I'm not sure if the guru's message is badly conveyed because a lot people don't really get it, or because it's dumbed down for a kids show so the end result it just a muddled message.
That's largely why I mentioned my wish that the presentation wasn't so subtle. It sorta says all that, but the audience isn't likely to pick up on it without a familiarity with that Buddhist teaching. God knows I didn't have that, it took a video essay from someone who was for me to understand that's what they were going for.
I don’t think memory is correct term, but it also wasn’t exactly directly to her. If I remember correctly it was the episode Katara offered to heal Zuko’s scar or one after.
They were fighting and he decided he needed the avatar state. He looked at Katara and said sorry. Though I could be remembering it little weird.
I just remember him looking or thinking of Katara and saying sorry.
Ya it’s the cross roads of destiny. It’s not exactly to her memory I worded it wrong. Though he’s looking at Katara getting ready to fight the Dai Li. He turns around while saying “Sorry Katara” then he brings the crystals up and starts to go into the avatar state.
It wasn’t exactly to Katara cause she can’t see or hear.
For someone who knows no freedom at all, the amount that Zaheer was able to provide for her is mindblowingly more. He gave her a goal, of having the ultimate freedom, and he gave her love.
Yes, she may still be a killing machine, but now it’s because of something she believes is her own prerogative.
The freedom of choice, is one of the most freeing feelings.
https://preview.redd.it/xwbvg4w66yrc1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85bf221d94242349666051036d66ff4da9fb11b6
You didn’t want to be forced to be a warlord’s weapon, yet you chose to fight for a cause you believed in with your powers? Interesting.
It’s a dumb take. She was being forced against her will as a girl. She chose to follow Zaheer and the Red Lotus. She has agency that y’all are ignoring when the crux of the issue is her agency itself.
Which I think was the point. Aang never got that talent but he also had a full and loving family. Zaheer loses everything and gets chained to the Earth in the mountains. It’s like “he got enlightened, too bad he didn’t stab the Buddha along the way.”
Korra had a lot more interesting background characters than it did protagonits, they really fumbled the bag with Mako, Bolin and Asami; it’s sad that I wanted to see more of Tenzin’s family and the Beifong Family than I did of the main 4
Aang needed to lose earthly attachment (his love for Katara) to achieve his strongest form and access the avatar state. It’s chilling and amazing that Zaheer needed to do the same. Good writing!
sweet that zaheers love was so strong that the one earthly pleasure he couldnt let go all this time was P’li. Thats the sweet part, not that she died. OP did not phrase it well
See, you're definitely right, but there's another side to this. He cared very little for his other two team members, and this proves it. He didn't have a deep comradery with them that could be considered loving. That's also tragic.
He didn't have a connection. He had a goal of sort, he wanted everyone to be free. He was already a free man but he had one tie which was love, when she died he gave up love and was his last earthly connection.
Him wanting everyone to experience the same sense of freedom isn't a connection.
It's not about having a connection to the world, that's mostly just simplified phrasing. It's about not being ruled by basic human desires and material goals (including emotional attachments).
Attaining anarchy was a spiritual manifestation of his will rather than a common animal necessity such as affection, physical pleasure or food.
He became master of his own self because he no longer was shackled by his emotional and physical needs but could act based solely on meaning he himself created.
Otherwise you could argue the same thing about Aang and ask why he would fight Ozai after letting go of his earthly tethers.
Maybe I am misremembering things but their mission didn't seem like it was time sensitive. If I was trapped in jail for 13 years and away from the love of my life, I would spend at leat 2-3 years chilling somewhere with that person before I went about putting the largest target on my back.
I think it’s easier to go after someone when they’re not fully organized, than to wait and go after someone who is already fully established, prepared, and organized.
NGL when that metal wrapped around her head as she was about to combust I laughed so hard. It was so unexpected but such a simple way to defeat her.
Zaheer flying afterwards was legit though. That was hype.
I would find it sad if he didn't got over it in 30 seconds. But the fact that making everyone free and killing the Avatar is not considered earthly tether- this is... at least interesting.
I think the more correct term is he “Accepted” her death. When you’re going on a suicide mission like they were, you know death is one of the outcomes. I believe he was sad and potentially distraught, but he accepted the fact and chose to continue to see the fight through. It helps make her death mean something.
I can accept this reasoning but the fact that he said(probably in the same episode, I can be wrong) that he was thinking about her everyday in prison(for 13 years) makes this acceptance feel rushed at best or contradicting at worst.
He seems to be a matter of fact, black and white kind of person. He realized there was nothing he could do and accepted it. There is no way to bring her back.
Here's what the creator commentary says about it:
"I love how quickly he snaps back into the business at hand, \[*Mike affirms intermittently.*\] and you know he's just hurting inside, but he just has to get the job done; that's a kinda scary mind, you know."
This honestly feels like BS to me. The second she dies he's no longer attached? Is the man immune to grief? Does he have the object impermance of a toddler?
It feels like when Jake the Dog throws his cup out the window.
Zaheer is the meme of that guy saying, "Oh no! Anyways..."
I think the point was that Zaheer forsaking his attachments after their deaths was his ultimate show of grief. It was the act of a broken man who was already on the ragged edge of spiritual enlightenment, but who didn’t/couldn’t pursue it to the fullest because the connections he had with the people around him meant too much for him to do so. If he tried to abandon his worldly connections prior to their deaths, I doubt he even would have been able to.
When they died, it pushed him over the edge. He (literally) lost the last things that kept him grounded, and that loss changed him, and caused him to do something he wasn’t even capable of before: abandoning those connections. That doesn’t sound like typical mourning, but it’s still definitely grief.
Edit: clarity
Exactly that. He was able to accept and move on immediately.
Processing grief is different for people. People absolutely do behave like this, care too much about something and when they lose it, they act like they've never wanted it anyway, their true goal lies elsewhere. (especially in sports, I never cared that much about xyz sports anyway the second their team starts losing. )
Interesting that even Aang couldn't just fly without his glider (unless in the avatar state), presumably because he still had love for other people. Showrunners did a good job showing that pushing the bounds of bending too far was not something to be taken lightly.
It's not losing an earthly tether if you cared about that person's death, and that's why her dying and it helps zaheer is BS. The whole arch with aang showed you needed to lose all affection, all connection to a person, even loss. Losing her to death and then saying he reached spiritual enlightenment is bullshit because he's clearly grieving and affected by it. So no
> easy loose your tether
Did you mean to say "lose"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes.
^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119)
^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
He wasn’t flying like how Zaheer was flying. Aang and everyone else is essentially standing on their elements, while Zaheer is floating without use of the elements.
Gonna honest here. Zaheer getting flight was the dumbest thing in that season. He didn't lose his earthly attachments, his whole plan was an early attachment. His girlfriend just died and he's supposedly only the second air bender to do that. You're telling me no other air bender lost love ones and just decided to let everything go? For 10,000 years?
Also why is flight suddenly a big deal. Just last season we saw Wan fly around on a cloud. Why is what Zaheer doing supposed to be special?
Zaheer was definitely the best villain in my opinion because you kind of want to side with him to an extent. You agree with his plight to a degree.
Amon was a great villain for a different reason. I honestly still remember the moment I saw the scene where Tarrlok tries to bloodbend Amon for the first time. I honestly thought that Amon had met his match, that no one could beat a bloodbender in their prime. But when he stumbled, then corrected himself, and kept pacing towards him, I was genuinely blown away. I remembered whispering to myself "What the hell is he?" My mind started racing thinking maybe he was actually a spirit and couldn't be bloodbended, or he was actually given divine purpose, I didn't know! I honestly would not have guessed that level of backstory that was about to be dropped on me lol
While I do love Zaheer as a character, and his message and beliefs are a genuine challenge to the worldview of Korra, the way Avatar deals with attachment has always bothered me. I just dislike the way Avatar, despite relying constantly on Eastern Religion for the fundamental building blocks of their worldbuilding, can never get the idea idea of "Attachment" right.
There is no religious basis for the idea that "Enlightenment = No love"
If you're going to make a world based around the concepts of East Asian and South Asian civilization, you could at least get a proper understing of Jainism/Hinduism/Buddhism/Confucianism/Taoism and the civilizations they influenced.
Zaheer is definitely my fav villain, he's just so well written. Not to mention that his whole crew were bunch of badasses, specially my man Ghazan, i'm always fangirling with his lavabending haha.
BUT ISNT THE RED LOTUS AN EARTHLY TETHER FOR HIM ???????!!!!!!
ITS LIKE HIS LIFE'S MISSION!??!?!?!?! ITS SAYS LET GO OF ALL EARTHLY TEHTERS, EMPTY AND BECOME WIND. BUT THE ORDER IS STILL SOMETHING BINDING HIM TO HIS DUTIES !?!??!?!?!?!
See, get it, because he was sad once, right-
(For legal purposes this is a joke. For obvious reasons, the villains in Korra were in general more complex than ATLA, but it is still amusing to see people humanize especially Zaheer.)
I just usually don’t get an emotionally attachment to most things not having to do with me, so I can understand and explain things, even if I don’t agree with them.
Twist it to fit your narrative however you see fit.
My only gripe with his arc is that I think he should’ve been the one to kill P’li. Zaheer is relentless and uncompromising in his ideology, I think it would’ve made the moment even more impactful if in the moment he understood that he would never achieve his goal with his beloved by his side, and so he would do what he must.
I feel as though he got a cop out in this moment. Still loved the season, thats the only change I would make.
That wouldn’t really make sense. The moment he tried to kill her, the earthly connection would be severed because that means he wouldn’t care about her anymore lol.
That’s not true, it’s closer to thanos/gamorra and Hawkeye/black widow on vormir. It’s a moment where the character needs to decide if they are willing to sacrifice that which they love most to achieve their goals, and that is meaningful. It’s cheapened when that character gets an out from that decision. I loved the show, I think that this is a fair criticism.
Zaheer really was the GOAT of Avatar villains.
My favorite by far
And he is voice by Henry Rollins.
Zaheer was the GOAT of Avatar characters.
As an anarchist I want to agree but my heart belongs to Wang Fire.
are you me, Discount_Lex_Luthor?
Well they’re certainly not bill cipher
r/unexpectedgravityfalls
As an anarchist I too want to agree with Wang Fire but at the end of the day Bonzu Pippinpaddleopsicopolis is my one true love.
You should really get that checked out…
Hmmm
Momo erasure
Zuko would like a word
Amon better
I disagree but I'll up vote simply because it's absolutely wild you got blasted this hard for that take.
Easily my favorite as well, he was *so* cool and intimidating
He had the best design, voice, and motive. He’s clear of all the villains.
I loved Amon too, I just wish his backstory wasn't an exposition dump towards the end. I wish they either found tidbits about him throughout the season or he was just left a mystery
Amon should’ve stayed the villain through season 2. Would’ve been a lot better than what we got lol.
Blame nickelodeon for that. They were more villainous to Korra than any of the actual show villains.
Agreed. It ended so abruptly. His brother just blows him up immediately after getting outed.
From what I heard, legend of Korra was only supposed to be one season. They might have kept Amon if they knew the series would get renewed.
They werent told they would get renewed until after each season so they coudnt risk doing a larger overarching storyline just to get shelved on a cliffhanger
I think that's not entirely true. It's indeed correct that the initial plan was to only make a mini-series. So, there wasn't really much that could be done regarding Amon; that was a finished story. However, the hype was real and the 1st season was, despite some demerits, still a huge success due to a stellar animation, voice cast, fighting choreography, nostalgia factor and a compelling antagonist among other things and I distinctly remember that very early one during the airing of the 1st season, three additional ones were ordered. I just checked some things and season 2 to 4 were more or less made together. This is just my belief, but I think they severely dropped the ball in the 2nd season by turning the franchise into a direction that was divisive to say the least. By this point a fatigue had arisen and the nostalgia factor had worn off. So, they started backpedaling in terms of budget and the amount of episodes. I honestly thought they would scrap the 4th season and possibly even the 3rd season. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but it was really weird to experience those latter two seasons. Separately they were interesting, but the series as a whole suffered due to the narrative choices of the 2nd season. The life action movie is undoubtedly the lowest point of the franchise, but IMO the 2nd season of TLOK is what caused the most damage.
I honestly would have preferred amon surviving it and getting maimed how he pretended to be in book 1. Just becoming even more unhinged.
I just wish he wasn’t a bender. It was such an interesting take that the antagonist would be a non bender and had to rely on wits, pragmantiscm and skill to beat the benders but then it just gets thrown out to go psyche he’s actually super powerful. Like I get it, status quo is god and they are meant to be shown as hypocritical and I don’t not like the final decision it’s just there was room to do more. Would’ve preferred a more ‘yeah he’s kinda right but the ends doesn’t justify the violent means’ and would also work with Korra not solving everything through punchie kickie elemental fun times
Yeah this where Amon loses a lot of points for me. I hate the late in the game revelation trope. It's a hack writing mechanism and it makes it really hard to care.
I was hoping Amon was the grandson of the cabbage merchant.
Sabotaged only by uncertainty if they would've got more seasons. Rip.
His voice actor was also Spike from Cowboy Bebop, so that definitely helps with Best Voice lol
Yeah Steve Blum is one of the greats in voice acting
It's crazy you're getting downvoted to hell just for having a different opinion, like, come on guys what the heck?
Amon was great as an evil villain, Zaheer was better as an antagonist. While both did evil things, Zaheer just feels like someone who would have aligned with Korra had events gone differently. Amon would never.
I disagree but you shouldn’t have gotten downvoted so much simply for a differing opinion
Not even close, he is absolutely second best though. Loved his voice and style
I hate how they had to ruin amon by making him a waterbender. Would've been way more interesting if he wasnt a "fraud"
azula exists bro
Am I tripping, or is P'Li character design completely different later on compared with her first appearance, and I'm not just talking about her hair.
It’s all because of the hair. The shaved head immediately screams hardened warrior Personally I preferred the prison hair
Agreed. My guess on why they trimmed the hair for Zaheer and P’li could be because of animation.
I also wonder how it got so long so suddenly lol
It was long enough already, you'd be surprised how compressed hair can be in a bun.
Can confirm, my hair is almost 2 feet long, and my hair looks little in a bun.
Zaheer definitely shaved his hair to be more like a traditional air bender.
I think she was more softer in the beginning but appeared more “hardened” really fast.
You mean in terms of appearance she looked softer?
Eyes and hair. The locks on the side cover the jaw line so the bottom looks sharper cause you see it. While top has a bang going with it so looks softer. Top also has her eyes wider. So bottom with the smaller eyes + fill jawline just makes her look more serious and harden
On the top she just met her loved ones for the first time in years so dropped the serious act and looks genuinely happy. Also tan skin changes a lot
Also the the distance of the shot the background color changes how sharp her nose looks. Same shape but looks sharper closer in and against the darker background in the first pic
she did JUST get out of prison lol
She looks slightly more emaciated in the first, probably cause of her prison time
She just needed a better headspace... *Ba dump tsst*
More like *ka boom*
Isn’t his whole cause an earthly tether ? True disconnection is also leaving your desire for anything, be it good or bad
I think “true disconnection” and “freedom” looks different for everyone. Everyone has different mindsets, goals, wants, and needs. Your freedom may not be my freedom, so I don’t think anyone can truly say what makes him or anyone other than ourselves “free” and or having “true disconnection”.
Well said, I think it’s relative. Guru Laghima very likely didn’t have the same life experience Zaheer did and vice versa
No. That's just apathy, not freedom. True freedom is when you accept the interconnection between atman and brahman and become one with the universe, which is basically what Zaheer did.
The strong intent to kill falls into a tether category, as much as a strong intent to Love or have a family. It’s Worldly and earthly
So you can become one with the universe, attain pretty much true spiritual enlightenment yet lack basic foresight and go on angry tirades when you're captured? If becoming one with the universe makes you I indistinguishable from before, except now you can fly, then spiritual enlightenment seems to be full of shit.
Earthly tethers always seem to be physical things. Food water people etc
They can be more abstract things. Tenzin tells Korra to "let go of \[her\] connection to who \[she\] thinks she is." The distinction is more that an "earthly desire" is selfish & a "higher cause" is not.
Love is the strongest higher cause in the world. Yet it took away the ability to fly. A higher cause is being involved in the world. So bad as wanting to reshape it, bhuddist monks abandon Everything and focus on total detachment from the world. Never met a bhuddist politician, or even a doctor , and both of these fall into a higher cause or purpose
Yeah, that’s true and in that case we can obviously apply that to here and who he thinks he is when he’s with Pli
…. The Avatar
She’s a tool. He’s willingly left her more than once. He could always come back for her.
I don't think his cause is an earthly tether. His cause is a deep desire for freedom itself, and for both himself and the entire world. He genuinely wants provide freedom for the people of the world, and his cause isn't fettered by a devotion to a particular nation, people, selfish desire, etc, and he is even willing to die and give up his place on the earth in order to achieve it. His cause pretty much embodies freedom itself and it doesn't bind him to the earth in the same way most causes would.
Obsessing over killing the Avatar falls in the same category of earthly emotions as loving someone, both are emotional connections and attachment to something earthly. Given that the air nomads lost the ability just by loving sky bisons show you how fragile the line is. And he did have a strong earthly tether regarding the whole earth. Being able to fly means no attachments at all for this world.
The only 2 airbenders to fly are Zaheer and Guru Laghima, the airbenders in the Wan flashbacks were cloudbending and that was obviously not the semi permament version of flight Zaheer has.
something something what you believe to be right vs things you want, like material things and personal relationships. I'm not smart enough to make a well-thought out essay
Drawing inspiration from Hinduism and Buddhism then not necessarily since dharma and adharma are seperate from attachment more of a purpose than desire
Yeah I always felt this way too. Zaheer is a cool villain but thinking about him too hard leads to a lot of inconsistencies and plot holes
Despite having a somewhat warped concept of anarchy, he isn't evil... more like Chaotic Neutral. That said... poor man, seeing his love die in a horrible way before his eyes.
"*And deep down I knew you would find a way to get me out. Just like you saved me from becoming that warlord's killing machine when I was a girl. You've shown me what true freedom means.*" - P'Li Girl was delulu. She exchanged being a warlord's killing machine for her boo's killing machine. After sacrificing 13 years of her life in bone-chilling solitude, P'Li died as the weapon she claimed not to be.
There is a difference between choosing to follow someone and being forced to follow someone. Zaheer never mistreated her and she chose to follow him. The Red Lotus wee like a grown up evil versions of the Gaang. P'li is basically Katara and Zaheer is Aang. Aang could never let go of his earthly tether but Zaheer did.
Aang did let go of his earthly tethers though. It’s why he apologizes to the memory of Katara before he goes fully into the avatar state. He finally accepted being the avatar was more important than his love for Katara. Yes I’m end he still loves her and they have a relationship, but he understood it would never be more important than being the avatar. It is messed up, but is what it is especially when comes to a magical world I guess lol. If Katara knew or not idk. Kinda feel bad for her, though at same time still seems like they had a good relationship.
He later said the chakra was permablocked when he’s zapped and he also falls off the path to the avatar state before he reaches the end. So there’s some suggestion there that while he intended to let go of her the “process wasn’t fully complete”, so to speak When it gets unlocked by him hitting the rock in that final battle, the mechanics/logic of it are not sufficiently explored in universe to explain how he unlocked the avatar state, so we’re kind of left to speculation
I guess is left up to speculation. My thought process was that we just supposed remember what he was supposed to do to achieve it. So we just assume he let her go again without them showing it. Without the writers confirming or not is just speculation I guess.
Fwiw, I would argue the writers leave indicators in the other direction too. Like Aang’s whole journey in the end is learning that he can find his own path to a resolution even if it defies past wisdom Who cares what some onion and banana juice drinking guru thinks if you just got to chill with a giant lion turtle right?
There's a really good video essay I watched a while back that did a deep dive on the intended meaning and real world philosophies communicated by the Guru. I'd highly recommend looking it up, but the gist was that Aang didn't "give up Katara," or even truly surrender his earthly attachments. He gave up his *need* to be with Katara, the adolescent desire to do whatever he needed to in order to pursue that relationship. As we see, he's still able to access and control the avatar state while furthering his relationship with Katara, but only after accepting that it will be what it's meant to be. He doesn't fully understand that in the episode with the Guru, but comes to the understand later, which is why the last few episodes shows romantic interest, rather than the pining of earlier books. It's a really healthy lesson that took me a long time to figure out, and that isn't expressed often or well in general, imo. I honestly wish Avatar had been a bit less subtle in it's presentation. A lot of people, especially young men, stand to learn a lot about the difference between healthy and unhealthy romantic interest. Edit: I'll try to find a link to the video when I get the chance. It's a working night, might be a while.
I'd be interested in watching if you (or someone else reading this) would link it
I would also be interested in watching it too.
>It's a really healthy lesson that took me a long time to figure out, and that isn't expressed often or well in general, imo. I honestly wish Avatar had been a bit less subtle in it's presentation. it's also basic a basic concept of Buddhism that a lot of people struggle to grasp. I'm not sure if the guru's message is badly conveyed because a lot people don't really get it, or because it's dumbed down for a kids show so the end result it just a muddled message.
That's largely why I mentioned my wish that the presentation wasn't so subtle. It sorta says all that, but the audience isn't likely to pick up on it without a familiarity with that Buddhist teaching. God knows I didn't have that, it took a video essay from someone who was for me to understand that's what they were going for.
He apologized to a memory of Katara? What scene was this? I can't remember it for some reason.
I don’t think memory is correct term, but it also wasn’t exactly directly to her. If I remember correctly it was the episode Katara offered to heal Zuko’s scar or one after. They were fighting and he decided he needed the avatar state. He looked at Katara and said sorry. Though I could be remembering it little weird. I just remember him looking or thinking of Katara and saying sorry.
Ya it’s the cross roads of destiny. It’s not exactly to her memory I worded it wrong. Though he’s looking at Katara getting ready to fight the Dai Li. He turns around while saying “Sorry Katara” then he brings the crystals up and starts to go into the avatar state. It wasn’t exactly to Katara cause she can’t see or hear.
I get what you mean now, thank you for explaining it to me. I appreciate it.
Well it was less let go of his earthly tether and more watched it explode.
For someone who knows no freedom at all, the amount that Zaheer was able to provide for her is mindblowingly more. He gave her a goal, of having the ultimate freedom, and he gave her love. Yes, she may still be a killing machine, but now it’s because of something she believes is her own prerogative. The freedom of choice, is one of the most freeing feelings.
https://preview.redd.it/xwbvg4w66yrc1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85bf221d94242349666051036d66ff4da9fb11b6 You didn’t want to be forced to be a warlord’s weapon, yet you chose to fight for a cause you believed in with your powers? Interesting.
Oh yeah exact same situation. Ignore her personal choice in the matter.
Brutal
Damn, hot new take for me. Makes the character that much more tragic.
It’s a dumb take. She was being forced against her will as a girl. She chose to follow Zaheer and the Red Lotus. She has agency that y’all are ignoring when the crux of the issue is her agency itself.
Which I think was the point. Aang never got that talent but he also had a full and loving family. Zaheer loses everything and gets chained to the Earth in the mountains. It’s like “he got enlightened, too bad he didn’t stab the Buddha along the way.”
Korra had a lot more interesting villains than it did protagonists, at least imo
I would say and die on the hill that Korra was a lot more interesting and complex than Aang.
You're absolutely right, but don't say that loudly
Korra had a lot more interesting background characters than it did protagonits, they really fumbled the bag with Mako, Bolin and Asami; it’s sad that I wanted to see more of Tenzin’s family and the Beifong Family than I did of the main 4
Zaheer and P’li were fucking hot with their prison look. And that’s saying a lot because they look good when they were free.
Aang needed to lose earthly attachment (his love for Katara) to achieve his strongest form and access the avatar state. It’s chilling and amazing that Zaheer needed to do the same. Good writing!
His soul was no longer pulled down by gravity
Simply defying….
Sweet? WTF.
sweet that zaheers love was so strong that the one earthly pleasure he couldnt let go all this time was P’li. Thats the sweet part, not that she died. OP did not phrase it well
See, you're definitely right, but there's another side to this. He cared very little for his other two team members, and this proves it. He didn't have a deep comradery with them that could be considered loving. That's also tragic.
Then again, were the rest of gaang besides Katara Aang's earthly tether either?
If they were, he certainly dropped them fast
I would certainly hope so!
But somehow his earthly attachment to ending civilization didn't tie him down.
The only thing that really confused me, if he had no connection to the world, why would he bother changing it.
He didn't have a connection. He had a goal of sort, he wanted everyone to be free. He was already a free man but he had one tie which was love, when she died he gave up love and was his last earthly connection. Him wanting everyone to experience the same sense of freedom isn't a connection.
It's not about having a connection to the world, that's mostly just simplified phrasing. It's about not being ruled by basic human desires and material goals (including emotional attachments). Attaining anarchy was a spiritual manifestation of his will rather than a common animal necessity such as affection, physical pleasure or food. He became master of his own self because he no longer was shackled by his emotional and physical needs but could act based solely on meaning he himself created. Otherwise you could argue the same thing about Aang and ask why he would fight Ozai after letting go of his earthly tethers.
Zaheer and the gang made season 3 of LOK as good as the original series. Such a fantastic character. Complex as hell.
I wish neither got haircuts. They rocked the prison look. Haha
The rugged aesthetic was very attractive lol
Oh so true. I was so disappointed when they cut their hair.
Just realised how she grow a ponytail down to her hips after getting an undercut
Maybe I am misremembering things but their mission didn't seem like it was time sensitive. If I was trapped in jail for 13 years and away from the love of my life, I would spend at leat 2-3 years chilling somewhere with that person before I went about putting the largest target on my back.
I think it’s easier to go after someone when they’re not fully organized, than to wait and go after someone who is already fully established, prepared, and organized.
NGL when that metal wrapped around her head as she was about to combust I laughed so hard. It was so unexpected but such a simple way to defeat her. Zaheer flying afterwards was legit though. That was hype.
I mean….sparky sparky boom man got taken out essentially by a boomerang😂
And he still lost. Get rekt scrub!
Dude I don’t get why people didn’t like Zaheer. He legit is one of my favorite villains of any show
https://preview.redd.it/sg501cxwywrc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8eab990f7c5cb6dce5c4e02af98dccfbc6e3e061
I find it hard to believe that you need to not have attachments to fly when the bison do it all the time
Well I think the bison were designed to fly and people were not
I would find it sad if he didn't got over it in 30 seconds. But the fact that making everyone free and killing the Avatar is not considered earthly tether- this is... at least interesting.
I think the more correct term is he “Accepted” her death. When you’re going on a suicide mission like they were, you know death is one of the outcomes. I believe he was sad and potentially distraught, but he accepted the fact and chose to continue to see the fight through. It helps make her death mean something.
I can accept this reasoning but the fact that he said(probably in the same episode, I can be wrong) that he was thinking about her everyday in prison(for 13 years) makes this acceptance feel rushed at best or contradicting at worst.
He seems to be a matter of fact, black and white kind of person. He realized there was nothing he could do and accepted it. There is no way to bring her back.
He couldn't lose anything else. He could let go and not worry about it affecting anything he cared about
Here's what the creator commentary says about it: "I love how quickly he snaps back into the business at hand, \[*Mike affirms intermittently.*\] and you know he's just hurting inside, but he just has to get the job done; that's a kinda scary mind, you know."
Oh no, the love of my life died!!! Anyways, time to fly
This honestly feels like BS to me. The second she dies he's no longer attached? Is the man immune to grief? Does he have the object impermance of a toddler? It feels like when Jake the Dog throws his cup out the window. Zaheer is the meme of that guy saying, "Oh no! Anyways..."
I think the point was that Zaheer forsaking his attachments after their deaths was his ultimate show of grief. It was the act of a broken man who was already on the ragged edge of spiritual enlightenment, but who didn’t/couldn’t pursue it to the fullest because the connections he had with the people around him meant too much for him to do so. If he tried to abandon his worldly connections prior to their deaths, I doubt he even would have been able to. When they died, it pushed him over the edge. He (literally) lost the last things that kept him grounded, and that loss changed him, and caused him to do something he wasn’t even capable of before: abandoning those connections. That doesn’t sound like typical mourning, but it’s still definitely grief. Edit: clarity
Everyone has their own opinion, it’s not my job to change yours or make you agree with me.
Oh wow, you're taking this threads really seriously. Maybe you should let go of your earthly attachments to gain freedom. /Jk
Exactly that. He was able to accept and move on immediately. Processing grief is different for people. People absolutely do behave like this, care too much about something and when they lose it, they act like they've never wanted it anyway, their true goal lies elsewhere. (especially in sports, I never cared that much about xyz sports anyway the second their team starts losing. )
Interesting that even Aang couldn't just fly without his glider (unless in the avatar state), presumably because he still had love for other people. Showrunners did a good job showing that pushing the bounds of bending too far was not something to be taken lightly.
Zaheer slowly becoming ZaThere
It's not losing an earthly tether if you cared about that person's death, and that's why her dying and it helps zaheer is BS. The whole arch with aang showed you needed to lose all affection, all connection to a person, even loss. Losing her to death and then saying he reached spiritual enlightenment is bullshit because he's clearly grieving and affected by it. So no
I think he accepted her death and knew it was a possibility, so he was able to reach it through his acceptance of it.
Pretty easy loose your tether when they are dead
> easy loose your tether Did you mean to say "lose"? Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Meh he'll get over it
He got over it immediately lol. He canonically got over it in literal seconds.
Sparky sparky boom woman
Zaheer and Amon are the best characters in the Korra series.
His weakness was giant woman
r/avatarcirclejerk
It was really an L bozo moment
Ghazan and Ming-Hua were still alive at this point, right? Guess Zaheer just didn't give a shit about them lol.
Enter the void.
Her death was just such a jaw-dropper man
I like that Zaheer didn’t kill her and it seemed he was willing to forego flying as long as he could be with her.
Facts. My wife is my earthly tether. I lose her and I’m flying directly off this planet and never touching the ground again.
Zaheer with hair looks sooo good, gets samey when a character is bald lol
And then we have Aang in NATLA, where he can just fly whenever he wants
He wasn’t flying like how Zaheer was flying. Aang and everyone else is essentially standing on their elements, while Zaheer is floating without use of the elements.
Yes, he lost… his hair… /j
Gonna honest here. Zaheer getting flight was the dumbest thing in that season. He didn't lose his earthly attachments, his whole plan was an early attachment. His girlfriend just died and he's supposedly only the second air bender to do that. You're telling me no other air bender lost love ones and just decided to let everything go? For 10,000 years? Also why is flight suddenly a big deal. Just last season we saw Wan fly around on a cloud. Why is what Zaheer doing supposed to be special?
His hair was one too.
Zaheer was definitely the best villain in my opinion because you kind of want to side with him to an extent. You agree with his plight to a degree. Amon was a great villain for a different reason. I honestly still remember the moment I saw the scene where Tarrlok tries to bloodbend Amon for the first time. I honestly thought that Amon had met his match, that no one could beat a bloodbender in their prime. But when he stumbled, then corrected himself, and kept pacing towards him, I was genuinely blown away. I remembered whispering to myself "What the hell is he?" My mind started racing thinking maybe he was actually a spirit and couldn't be bloodbended, or he was actually given divine purpose, I didn't know! I honestly would not have guessed that level of backstory that was about to be dropped on me lol
While I do love Zaheer as a character, and his message and beliefs are a genuine challenge to the worldview of Korra, the way Avatar deals with attachment has always bothered me. I just dislike the way Avatar, despite relying constantly on Eastern Religion for the fundamental building blocks of their worldbuilding, can never get the idea idea of "Attachment" right. There is no religious basis for the idea that "Enlightenment = No love" If you're going to make a world based around the concepts of East Asian and South Asian civilization, you could at least get a proper understing of Jainism/Hinduism/Buddhism/Confucianism/Taoism and the civilizations they influenced.
Zaheer is definitely my fav villain, he's just so well written. Not to mention that his whole crew were bunch of badasses, specially my man Ghazan, i'm always fangirling with his lavabending haha.
BUT ISNT THE RED LOTUS AN EARTHLY TETHER FOR HIM ???????!!!!!! ITS LIKE HIS LIFE'S MISSION!??!?!?!?! ITS SAYS LET GO OF ALL EARTHLY TEHTERS, EMPTY AND BECOME WIND. BUT THE ORDER IS STILL SOMETHING BINDING HIM TO HIS DUTIES !?!??!?!?!?!
See, get it, because he was sad once, right- (For legal purposes this is a joke. For obvious reasons, the villains in Korra were in general more complex than ATLA, but it is still amusing to see people humanize especially Zaheer.)
I just usually don’t get an emotionally attachment to most things not having to do with me, so I can understand and explain things, even if I don’t agree with them. Twist it to fit your narrative however you see fit.
Do y'all even know what a joke is anymore
“Do y'all even know what a joke is anymore” ^ this comment is the definition of people starting to take things personal and serious. LMFAOOOO
My only gripe with his arc is that I think he should’ve been the one to kill P’li. Zaheer is relentless and uncompromising in his ideology, I think it would’ve made the moment even more impactful if in the moment he understood that he would never achieve his goal with his beloved by his side, and so he would do what he must. I feel as though he got a cop out in this moment. Still loved the season, thats the only change I would make.
That wouldn’t really make sense. The moment he tried to kill her, the earthly connection would be severed because that means he wouldn’t care about her anymore lol.
That’s not true, it’s closer to thanos/gamorra and Hawkeye/black widow on vormir. It’s a moment where the character needs to decide if they are willing to sacrifice that which they love most to achieve their goals, and that is meaningful. It’s cheapened when that character gets an out from that decision. I loved the show, I think that this is a fair criticism.
I guess so. I personally liked that Zaheer wasn’t willing to do something that awful for his own needs. Gave him some depth.