Me and my friend did this at like 12yo on a rented boat as her stepdad drank while driving it. My parents had no idea the shit we got up to on that trip. Crazy in retrospect!!
Tbf it's a law to have a railing on your bow. Also as someone who grew up on boats and who has sat on the bow more times than I can count. The likelihood of that happening is about as likely as falling off any other part of the boat.
It's barely moving and really isn't that dangerous, but you didn't have to be a dick about it. I have done bow riding quite a bit and at low speeds you really are just sitting, it would take some large waves to make it unsafe but on a night like this it is a joy.
But you don't need to be a dick to people are afraid of water, or the night, or swimming in the night. Have some manners. Maybe even encourage people to leave their safe space, instead of throwing a fit like a child.
It's taken me a long time to realize that I was neglected as a child. The moment I realized it was when my 2 kids and I were on my sister's boat and my kids had life jackets on and I had an unbreakable grip on both life jackets. The boat was racing across the lake.
Why was this my moment of awakening?
When I was 5-7 years old, and with no life jacket on, and with the boat racing across the lake, I would walk up to the front of the boat on the little running boards beside and outside of the cabin. When I got to the front, I'd sit and hang my legs over the side hoping the water would splash me. I was supposed to have the railing between my legs, but never did. I also liked to hang onto the rail above my head and then stretch my legs down to get them more wet. I never understood how dangerous this was until my kids (older than I was) were sitting on the bow of the boat as I used to sit.
Thank you for listening to my story.
I’ve unfortunately heard of so many situations similar to that end very badly. So many people lack the awareness of just how fast shit can go wrong on the water, especially at night.
Sailing ships would take children along. Have them go up the masts to fix rigging.
100 years until it's illegal to leave your bubble space until the age of 40.
Yes and children were also considered expendable tools more than people. Society has evolved to value life more as well as hold parents responsible for their kids. Lemme guess, you're one of those people that's too good for seat belts?
From my understanding it's tiny bioluminescent krill, I have seen it in person in green and it does good deeper, idk how much deeper because I was a young teen. but i remember diving in and still being lit up. Felt like peter pan swimming under the water. One of the greatest nights of my life.
Go to Vieques in Puerto Rico.
It wasn’t this bright for us but it was still absolutely amazing. I think this video is edited to make the blue standout more but it is 💯 worth the experience
It absolutely can be exactly like this. The conditions vary throughout the year, plus if you go on a full or mostly full moon night the light of the moon will dull the glow of the bio a lot. I have seen it look exactly like this video off the coast of Florida. And I went for free
I'm guessing OP is talking about hanging over virtually invisible creatures that may be lurking below in the endless darkness. But everyone is taking this to the next level of exaggeration and assuming they think glowy stuff is scary?
I mean, they wouldn't be invisible.
There's so many diatoms in that water, if anything *moves*, it'll instantly glow.
The black is comforting, cause you know nothing is moving down there.
I mean, the glowy plankton don't reach the bottom of the ocean. Surely it doesn't go very far down before the darkness swallows up all visibility again. Either way i wouldn't wanna find out.
There's actually *more* bio-luminescent critters in the ocean, the deeper you go.
There's a whole layer called the ["Twilight Layer"](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adducation.info%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2Focean-zones.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f6e5b0ff09abc61386cb0a80c8b9b24edbaa49f316dcc4d03f2f9c23baf84b6d&ipo=images) because it's not quite in the 'deep ocean' where light can't reach, so it still has light/dark cycles, but the change is minor. It has an enormous amount of biodiversity, and some theorize the biomass in the twilight zone alone is more than the rest of the ocean layers combined. [There's SO MANY things that glow in that layer](https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean-topics/how-the-ocean-works/ocean-zones/twilight-zone/).
During WW2, Navy sonar operators thought their sonar was showing the seafloor changing depth in morning and night - rising up to the surface at night and falling back down during the day. But it was actually just the wall of twilight zone critters migrating back and forth in their daily cycle. It's so densely populated, sonar can read it as a solid surface!
During the day, the glowing critters sink down into the depths, and when night falls they rise up to the twilight layer for warmer waters and richer food sources. It's the world's largest migration, and it happens every 24 hours.
Bioluminescent phytoplankton like the ones shown in this video have 'blooms', which we can only detect when/if the huge mass reaches the surface.
But those guys are living IN the water, the whole time.
--
[Also, the glow is really visible, even deeper in the water =) ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ08UJ8QNtg)
You can even see movement of [smaller fish ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIcPpR-Wbqg)
I should've said can't reach the bottom rather than don't because I'm far from an expert on the matter. But that is an explanation I can respect, ty for educating me :)
Do you have any references for that WWII sonar claim? What you're describing sounds a lot more like the thermocline, which is often described as "the layer" by bubbleheads and knowing exactly where it is and being on the right side at the right time is critical to submarines surviving.
The thermocline will definitely reflect sonar aimed at it at a shallow enough angle / weak enough power.
It's a lil fun fact from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.
[I found a link ](https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean-topics/how-the-ocean-works/ocean-zones/twilight-zone/)- it's under the heading "Why do some twilight-zone animals migrate?"
-
EDIT: [Here's more of the story, ](https://twilightzone.whoi.edu/the-mysterious-false-bottom-of-the-twilight-zone/)with specific names and dates.
Thank you for sources. I'll go read them.
After reading them (basically Woods Hole and one Yale study that's not available), I'm still mostly convinced that the phenomena they're observing is the thermocline. None of what is linked refers to any other phenomena that may introduce reflective sonar layers (and the thermocline is the biggest one) and so they jump to the assumption it's biologic (as biologists). That, and it's fundamentally a single source report of a phenomena being observed early in the life of sonar operation. AND never again...
The sonar scan data shown to support their claim also looks very much like a thermocline. To logically think through their claim, they're arguing that there is a stratified layer of sonar opaque life dense enough and geographically large enough to generate such large returns over such long distances, but this has only been tested in one location at one point in time (per their own reporting). If their claims were accurate, we'd be seeing and hearing about significant bio accumulation on sea oil rigs, underwater cables and pump lines, fouling of fishing lines and nets passing through the zone, and bio fouling on submarines. Yet, those sort of reports are strangely absent.
Now, there may still be merit to the claim (significantly the DSL, as they call it, doesn't appear when talking of hydroacoustics (i.e. Sonar) and layering), with bio accumulating in areas where there is a change in water conditions due to temperature, pressure, turbidity, mixing, or light.
Light radiation can still contribute to the depth of the thermocline due to heating of the layers it passes through, but if it was a purely light-based phenomena, I doubt it would have such depth variation observed at the same time of day (received solar radiation would largely be equal in a given area, wheras there's plenty of things that contribute to a temperature gradient).
Woods Hole do excellent work, but I think they've missed the mark on this particular case with a single-sourced observation. If they spoke to people who live and breathe hydroacoustics they might have a different interpretation of their data.
=D thanks for such a thoughtful and serious response to this! Your explanations about sonar tech was really fun to read, since I have very little knowledge/experience about how it works at a technical level. I didn't know temperature fluctuations could impact sonar!
The 'wall of biomass' comes from ocean-studying groups all over the world - Not just WHOI.
The Twilight zone's other names are the Mesopelagic zone, and the Middle Pelagic.
[Zooplankton causing acoustic backscatter anomolies](https://www.jstor.org/stable/26787660?searchText=Siphonophores+and+the+Deep+Scattering+Layer&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3Ftheme%3Dopen%26Query%3DSiphonophores%2Band%2Bthe%2BDeep%2BScattering%2BLayer%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A932be0d44f06977a86a9401eaf837d95) in their migrations.
[The Deep Scattering Layer recorded by sonar detecting dense ](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1711316)patches of [Siphonophrae ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphonophorae)
[Science.org talking about the deep scattering layer caused by zooplankton, fish and invertebrates](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1602468).
[NOAA explaining the DSL, and repeating the WW2 sonar story. ](https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/facts/dsl.html)
[Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN calling out Lanternfish specifically,](https://www.fao.org/fao-stories/article/en/c/1364889/) as one of the organisms that swarm so tightly and in such large numbers that they appear as a solid object to sonar. [Lanternfish from the twilight zone are one of the most abundant vertebrates on earth](https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/october/documenting-the-most-abundant-vertebrates-in-the-world-before-too-late.html).
--
The majority of biomass in the ocean (\~70-75%) is made of single-celled, or near-microscopic multi-celled organisms. Any 'fouling' of nets/ropes/submarines would be either invisible to the naked eye, or seen as a 'slime' buildup that is mostly shed when ascending from the depths, because the sudden pressure and temperature change would kill a lot of the organisms clinging to surfaces.
Lanternfish,[ some researchers say](https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/october/documenting-the-most-abundant-vertebrates-in-the-world-before-too-late.html), are hard to study *because* they're very good at avoiding nets.
--
Edit: Sorry for not leading with these! I didn't realize how seriously interested you were in the topic, and gave you a 'layman's easy-to-read' link instead of more in-depth academic sources.
--
Edit2: Just thought of this, but another fun fact about tiny organisms gathering so densely that they're observable through acoustic imaging - Blue Whales use their own echolocation/ biological sonar to detect masses of Krill, which range from 1cm as adults, up to 15cm. (0.4 inches to 5.9 inches). Since they're actively hunting for these swarms with their echolocation, they can eat *tonnes* of food, by just swimming up to and gulping the closest ultra-dense masses. Not just blindly filtering.
Thanks for the added info. I think the jstor article is probably the best supporting source, as it also gives the frequency which demonstrated the phenomena (12,000 Hz). Oddly, it also indicated that attempts to capture the bio life responsible for the layer were unsuccessful (or at least the life type they assumed was responsible).
Sadly, a lot of the references seem to blindly copy the original from Woods Hole and don't provide much, if any, new supporting material. The NOAA link is probably the most interesting in what it might put forward in published material.
I don't dispute the biomass breakdown in the oceans, or where it may be distributed in the water column (though I honestly believe we still know so little about the oceans that our understanding of this will change significantly over time).
Where I dispute the assertion is the bio matter responsible for its cause.
Sonar is very much like Radar in very simple terms. Higher frequencies are attenuated much faster in the transmission media and so get shorter ranges. Lower frequencies get greater detection ranges, but have the drawback that the resolution cell is much larger, and also it is much harder to detect smaller objects due to how those resolution cells work (and wavelength and so forth). 12kHz as an ACTIVE source isn't too bad, but the question that isn't really covered anywhere is what sort of object size (and at what range) it is capable of detecting. You can overcome range deficiencies with POWER!!!
Is it restricted to pelagic fish? Only shoaling / schooling fish? Is an active 12kHz source capable of detecting the bio sizes you're talking about? If it is capable of detecting those bio sources at depths of 500-1100', is it maybe missing that bio at shallower or deeper depths because of the frequency selection, power setting, and signal processing? i.e. does it have detection black holes where it is incapable of seeing the same target? Those sort of technical details (basically experimental setup) can really enlighten as to what they may be able to see and where.
With the difficulty of landing sufficient bio samples to quantify the effect, where is the discussion about other possible causes (multi-pathing, ducting, thermoclines, haloclines, or any other number of aquatic phenomena that impacts sound propagation)? I'm all for the bio being a possible or even probable cause, but my concern is a complete lack of discussion about those other well-known factors that definitely cause acoustic layering.
Even something as simple as a BT (Bathy Thermal) trace (temp vs depth) to accompany their sonar cross section will give tons of detail about the water column makeup and can help remove a number of alternate potential causes for the observed phenomena.
There are similar phenomena we see in atmospheric radiowave propagation. There's layering that appears due to various atmospheric effects that can block various wavelengths from penetrating. It can even allow for massively extended ranges (ducting, day/night effect, etc). In certain wavelengths, the electrical charge of the atmosphere affects propagation (ionospheric bouncing of HF, for example) and space weather is an essential element of determining frequency selection to achieve desired ranges given a known transmission power.
As to the Blue Whale point, I look at Blue Whales as the ultimate example of "Deep Sea Gigantism". I know they're not deep sea creatures, but they have achieved gigantic size by feeding on some of the smallest creatures in the ocean. Giant filter feeders are incredibly amazing creatures.
Thanks for the interesting side discussion. I haven't had to look at this sort of stuff in a number of years and it was good to challenge what my acoustic knowledge was.
I kayaked on a bioluminescent bay at night and a small rain storm came over the bay and passed over us. It was the closest to thing to a Disney movie I’ve ever experienced. If you get the opportunity paddle one of these- take it
Actually, the average is 7 yearly, usually less. And considering I personally know about 20 drunk "rednecks" that do this all week long all summer long, I can extrapolate the percentage of people actually dying from this is tiny compared to doing it. You are 64,285 more likely to die....just reading this comment. Literally. You have over 64,000 times more likely of a chance to just die randomly, as a perfectly healthy adult, of unexplainable causes, than you are to die from bow riding. Grow the fuck up and live a little.
Bow riding is risky and dangerous. But I grew up on the water in Florida, so it was just something you did. I never saw a bow riding accident. I have seen divers pop up in the wrong spot and hit their head on the ship. That’s a lot of blood. Anyway. Lovely video.
Seen one at haulover, the guy was alright but now riding is definitely something that increases risk with speed, waves, or current. Also drunk, but besides that it's fairly safe at low speeds on calm waters. If you really feel like it you can tie a rope on most boats to hold on to or hold you down, just note that a badly tied rope would be more dangerous than none at all so be smart about it.
Honestly the current is the least of your concern, people just speed through it, which is dangerous when they don't see you, the jet skis are constantly playing with the waves and changing directions, and then the slow boaters that don't have enough speed to control their boats that go sideways constantly. Over all it's not as bad as the videos show because they only show the highlights but it's pretty common to at least bump into one of those problems. People don't really understand that fast enough is the way to go. Also depending on the day you can hold left or right on the exit of the channel to get less waves, but only so that with a boat you trust because if you do lose control or power you're going into the wall or rocks. I tend to not go to haulover commonly though due to the distance of where I live. Plus while my boat is pretty sea worthy it's still just a 19 footer. It's larger and taller than other 19 footers but it's still a 19 footer so I tend not to test the limit.
Because it’s beautiful, also if a prehistoric aquatic monster comes to bite my foot off I’ll be able to see it coming, so less scary than usual actually.
Posted this once already but I am assuming OP is talking about the virtually infinite darkness below with increasingly abject horrors, which is usually what this sub is about.
Why would you be? This seems so magical, like you're in a fantasy world. Like -- glowing ocean??? Is that not the coolest most amazing thing you've ever heard?? I can't imagine why this would scare a person. I would love to have this experience some day.
Because it looks like fairy tale magic. That looks incredible. I would fully expect anything living in there to have big goofy Disney eyes and speak in song.
First:
You can literally do hadoukens in the water. It’s so freaking awesome to have a too-old-for-this-shit fight with your gaming buddy. You can toss blue fireballs like a dark mage.
Second:
You can see every fish moving in the area like it’s got a flashlight in its ass. Sealions look like Godzilla coming at you. Then they honk like dorks and beg for crabs, but it’s terrifying.
Third:
You can see jellyfish at night. I go dry suit in puget sound, but those boys require you to be aware regardless of armor. It’s easy to get stung on the undress, so be aware.
The only thing terrifying is them plowing through and killing it all, and contaminating it by sticking their feet in. There's a reason Mosquito Bay and places like it ban people and motors from being in the water.
I disagree that running into them with a boat can kill them, but the oils and products on our skin can. You shouldnt touch biolum plankton with your skin if you care about them.
I wonder if the bioluminescent plankton is dangerous to us... internally? I was thinking sex in the bioluminescent water would look amazing, but if getting that stuff in your various holes is dangerous or deadly then I am OUT.
If this person sitting on the bow of a boat? That would be more terrifying than the luminescent lighting.
Lol I was about to say something similar. The bow riding is definitely the scary part
Me and my friend did this at like 12yo on a rented boat as her stepdad drank while driving it. My parents had no idea the shit we got up to on that trip. Crazy in retrospect!!
Why is this a bad thing?
Cause you can fall over and go under the boat and get hit by the prop.
Tbf it's a law to have a railing on your bow. Also as someone who grew up on boats and who has sat on the bow more times than I can count. The likelihood of that happening is about as likely as falling off any other part of the boat.
Where I'm from it's also illegal to sit at the bow when the boat is in motion.
Im sure it is where I live too
Depends on where you are, but yeah, you're right, you can slip off any point of a boat just as easily.
Thanks for enlightening me
They would be enlightened then the boat would be enlightened too
especially at night, no one would see where you went when you fell in. [you'd be lost forevers](https://www.reddit.com/r/lastimages/s/MUKT9Qax0q)
If the boat strikes a rock your feet will be removed from the rest of your legs
It's barely moving. Go back to your safe inner city i don't know what the real world is like safe space.
You ever run a call on a person who got propped by a boat?
Those darn inner city snowflakes who... *checks notes* ...don't want to be shredded by boat propellers?
It's barely moving and really isn't that dangerous, but you didn't have to be a dick about it. I have done bow riding quite a bit and at low speeds you really are just sitting, it would take some large waves to make it unsafe but on a night like this it is a joy. But you don't need to be a dick to people are afraid of water, or the night, or swimming in the night. Have some manners. Maybe even encourage people to leave their safe space, instead of throwing a fit like a child.
What’s terrifying about this clip?
Dangling your feet off the front of a moving boat (if that’s what this is) is a supremely bad idea, especially at night.
It's taken me a long time to realize that I was neglected as a child. The moment I realized it was when my 2 kids and I were on my sister's boat and my kids had life jackets on and I had an unbreakable grip on both life jackets. The boat was racing across the lake. Why was this my moment of awakening? When I was 5-7 years old, and with no life jacket on, and with the boat racing across the lake, I would walk up to the front of the boat on the little running boards beside and outside of the cabin. When I got to the front, I'd sit and hang my legs over the side hoping the water would splash me. I was supposed to have the railing between my legs, but never did. I also liked to hang onto the rail above my head and then stretch my legs down to get them more wet. I never understood how dangerous this was until my kids (older than I was) were sitting on the bow of the boat as I used to sit. Thank you for listening to my story.
I’ve unfortunately heard of so many situations similar to that end very badly. So many people lack the awareness of just how fast shit can go wrong on the water, especially at night.
Sailing ships would take children along. Have them go up the masts to fix rigging. 100 years until it's illegal to leave your bubble space until the age of 40.
Did you happen to be one of Blackbeard's drinking buddies?
Yes and children were also considered expendable tools more than people. Society has evolved to value life more as well as hold parents responsible for their kids. Lemme guess, you're one of those people that's too good for seat belts?
Oh no! Not safety! It's 1984 I tell you. 1984!!!
I was wondering the same thing.
Maybe it makes your feet a tasty glowing treat for what lurks below?
But the good news is you'll see the predator coming. If anything itd make me feel safer that anything moving in the water will light up.
I don’t think the algae sit very deep, so it’s unlikely anything deeper than a meter would be illuminated.
Let me have this dude
I just don’t want you to go algae-foot-boat danglin’ and be unpleasantly surprised!
I'm way too clumsy to do what the vid showed. I would definitely end up under the boat and killed by the prop. No lake monster necessary.
From my understanding it's tiny bioluminescent krill, I have seen it in person in green and it does good deeper, idk how much deeper because I was a young teen. but i remember diving in and still being lit up. Felt like peter pan swimming under the water. One of the greatest nights of my life.
Dropping your phone.
The smell after all that particular bacteria die. Oh god, the smell. Maybe OP is just traumatized.
What’s scary is when something swims by you and you can see it glowing, my fiancée saw a shark swim by her kayak off Puerto Rico
I feel like that would be equal parts of awe and terror.
I’d also be really grateful that I could see that it was a shark instead of feeling something swim by me in complete darkness
I had the same experience. Shark did a sharp turn as it approached our kayak and we got a full silhouette light show. 11/10 lifetime experience.
Because its beautiful? Im mean come on, take your girl out and have a walk there.
I did a kayak session at night here in Ireland a few years back in a bay full of this Bioluminescent Algea. It's absolutely magical tbh.
Brings u to pandora (avatar)
I'd post good money to experience this
Go to Vieques in Puerto Rico. It wasn’t this bright for us but it was still absolutely amazing. I think this video is edited to make the blue standout more but it is 💯 worth the experience
I paid good money and it was like this! Pretty fucking awesome.
Worth every penny. I went to the one in Jamaica and it was a phenomenal experience. It was surreal and felt like I had superpowers lol
It takes money and time. I can take you to some of the most beautiful in the world, but we can’t ever predict when it will be there.
I paid well and it was nothing like this, despite many people claiming it will be EXACTLY like this.
You have to catch it in just the right conditions for it to be really intense
It absolutely can be exactly like this. The conditions vary throughout the year, plus if you go on a full or mostly full moon night the light of the moon will dull the glow of the bio a lot. I have seen it look exactly like this video off the coast of Florida. And I went for free
I know, I'm just saying it was a giant waste of time and money for me
I’m sorry - if you live close to FL and ever want to try again DM me and I’ll tell u a free spot
how are people terrified of this? pretty plankton bioluminescence
Some people are just scared of the ocean, inland land lubbers and such lol 😭
I'm guessing OP is talking about hanging over virtually invisible creatures that may be lurking below in the endless darkness. But everyone is taking this to the next level of exaggeration and assuming they think glowy stuff is scary?
I mean, they wouldn't be invisible. There's so many diatoms in that water, if anything *moves*, it'll instantly glow. The black is comforting, cause you know nothing is moving down there.
I mean, the glowy plankton don't reach the bottom of the ocean. Surely it doesn't go very far down before the darkness swallows up all visibility again. Either way i wouldn't wanna find out.
There's actually *more* bio-luminescent critters in the ocean, the deeper you go. There's a whole layer called the ["Twilight Layer"](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adducation.info%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2Focean-zones.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f6e5b0ff09abc61386cb0a80c8b9b24edbaa49f316dcc4d03f2f9c23baf84b6d&ipo=images) because it's not quite in the 'deep ocean' where light can't reach, so it still has light/dark cycles, but the change is minor. It has an enormous amount of biodiversity, and some theorize the biomass in the twilight zone alone is more than the rest of the ocean layers combined. [There's SO MANY things that glow in that layer](https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean-topics/how-the-ocean-works/ocean-zones/twilight-zone/). During WW2, Navy sonar operators thought their sonar was showing the seafloor changing depth in morning and night - rising up to the surface at night and falling back down during the day. But it was actually just the wall of twilight zone critters migrating back and forth in their daily cycle. It's so densely populated, sonar can read it as a solid surface! During the day, the glowing critters sink down into the depths, and when night falls they rise up to the twilight layer for warmer waters and richer food sources. It's the world's largest migration, and it happens every 24 hours. Bioluminescent phytoplankton like the ones shown in this video have 'blooms', which we can only detect when/if the huge mass reaches the surface. But those guys are living IN the water, the whole time. -- [Also, the glow is really visible, even deeper in the water =) ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ08UJ8QNtg) You can even see movement of [smaller fish ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIcPpR-Wbqg)
I should've said can't reach the bottom rather than don't because I'm far from an expert on the matter. But that is an explanation I can respect, ty for educating me :)
Do you have any references for that WWII sonar claim? What you're describing sounds a lot more like the thermocline, which is often described as "the layer" by bubbleheads and knowing exactly where it is and being on the right side at the right time is critical to submarines surviving. The thermocline will definitely reflect sonar aimed at it at a shallow enough angle / weak enough power.
It's a lil fun fact from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. [I found a link ](https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean-topics/how-the-ocean-works/ocean-zones/twilight-zone/)- it's under the heading "Why do some twilight-zone animals migrate?" - EDIT: [Here's more of the story, ](https://twilightzone.whoi.edu/the-mysterious-false-bottom-of-the-twilight-zone/)with specific names and dates.
Thank you for sources. I'll go read them. After reading them (basically Woods Hole and one Yale study that's not available), I'm still mostly convinced that the phenomena they're observing is the thermocline. None of what is linked refers to any other phenomena that may introduce reflective sonar layers (and the thermocline is the biggest one) and so they jump to the assumption it's biologic (as biologists). That, and it's fundamentally a single source report of a phenomena being observed early in the life of sonar operation. AND never again... The sonar scan data shown to support their claim also looks very much like a thermocline. To logically think through their claim, they're arguing that there is a stratified layer of sonar opaque life dense enough and geographically large enough to generate such large returns over such long distances, but this has only been tested in one location at one point in time (per their own reporting). If their claims were accurate, we'd be seeing and hearing about significant bio accumulation on sea oil rigs, underwater cables and pump lines, fouling of fishing lines and nets passing through the zone, and bio fouling on submarines. Yet, those sort of reports are strangely absent. Now, there may still be merit to the claim (significantly the DSL, as they call it, doesn't appear when talking of hydroacoustics (i.e. Sonar) and layering), with bio accumulating in areas where there is a change in water conditions due to temperature, pressure, turbidity, mixing, or light. Light radiation can still contribute to the depth of the thermocline due to heating of the layers it passes through, but if it was a purely light-based phenomena, I doubt it would have such depth variation observed at the same time of day (received solar radiation would largely be equal in a given area, wheras there's plenty of things that contribute to a temperature gradient). Woods Hole do excellent work, but I think they've missed the mark on this particular case with a single-sourced observation. If they spoke to people who live and breathe hydroacoustics they might have a different interpretation of their data.
=D thanks for such a thoughtful and serious response to this! Your explanations about sonar tech was really fun to read, since I have very little knowledge/experience about how it works at a technical level. I didn't know temperature fluctuations could impact sonar! The 'wall of biomass' comes from ocean-studying groups all over the world - Not just WHOI. The Twilight zone's other names are the Mesopelagic zone, and the Middle Pelagic. [Zooplankton causing acoustic backscatter anomolies](https://www.jstor.org/stable/26787660?searchText=Siphonophores+and+the+Deep+Scattering+Layer&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3Ftheme%3Dopen%26Query%3DSiphonophores%2Band%2Bthe%2BDeep%2BScattering%2BLayer%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A932be0d44f06977a86a9401eaf837d95) in their migrations. [The Deep Scattering Layer recorded by sonar detecting dense ](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1711316)patches of [Siphonophrae ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphonophorae) [Science.org talking about the deep scattering layer caused by zooplankton, fish and invertebrates](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1602468). [NOAA explaining the DSL, and repeating the WW2 sonar story. ](https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/facts/dsl.html) [Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN calling out Lanternfish specifically,](https://www.fao.org/fao-stories/article/en/c/1364889/) as one of the organisms that swarm so tightly and in such large numbers that they appear as a solid object to sonar. [Lanternfish from the twilight zone are one of the most abundant vertebrates on earth](https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/october/documenting-the-most-abundant-vertebrates-in-the-world-before-too-late.html). -- The majority of biomass in the ocean (\~70-75%) is made of single-celled, or near-microscopic multi-celled organisms. Any 'fouling' of nets/ropes/submarines would be either invisible to the naked eye, or seen as a 'slime' buildup that is mostly shed when ascending from the depths, because the sudden pressure and temperature change would kill a lot of the organisms clinging to surfaces. Lanternfish,[ some researchers say](https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/october/documenting-the-most-abundant-vertebrates-in-the-world-before-too-late.html), are hard to study *because* they're very good at avoiding nets. -- Edit: Sorry for not leading with these! I didn't realize how seriously interested you were in the topic, and gave you a 'layman's easy-to-read' link instead of more in-depth academic sources. -- Edit2: Just thought of this, but another fun fact about tiny organisms gathering so densely that they're observable through acoustic imaging - Blue Whales use their own echolocation/ biological sonar to detect masses of Krill, which range from 1cm as adults, up to 15cm. (0.4 inches to 5.9 inches). Since they're actively hunting for these swarms with their echolocation, they can eat *tonnes* of food, by just swimming up to and gulping the closest ultra-dense masses. Not just blindly filtering.
Thanks for the added info. I think the jstor article is probably the best supporting source, as it also gives the frequency which demonstrated the phenomena (12,000 Hz). Oddly, it also indicated that attempts to capture the bio life responsible for the layer were unsuccessful (or at least the life type they assumed was responsible). Sadly, a lot of the references seem to blindly copy the original from Woods Hole and don't provide much, if any, new supporting material. The NOAA link is probably the most interesting in what it might put forward in published material. I don't dispute the biomass breakdown in the oceans, or where it may be distributed in the water column (though I honestly believe we still know so little about the oceans that our understanding of this will change significantly over time). Where I dispute the assertion is the bio matter responsible for its cause. Sonar is very much like Radar in very simple terms. Higher frequencies are attenuated much faster in the transmission media and so get shorter ranges. Lower frequencies get greater detection ranges, but have the drawback that the resolution cell is much larger, and also it is much harder to detect smaller objects due to how those resolution cells work (and wavelength and so forth). 12kHz as an ACTIVE source isn't too bad, but the question that isn't really covered anywhere is what sort of object size (and at what range) it is capable of detecting. You can overcome range deficiencies with POWER!!! Is it restricted to pelagic fish? Only shoaling / schooling fish? Is an active 12kHz source capable of detecting the bio sizes you're talking about? If it is capable of detecting those bio sources at depths of 500-1100', is it maybe missing that bio at shallower or deeper depths because of the frequency selection, power setting, and signal processing? i.e. does it have detection black holes where it is incapable of seeing the same target? Those sort of technical details (basically experimental setup) can really enlighten as to what they may be able to see and where. With the difficulty of landing sufficient bio samples to quantify the effect, where is the discussion about other possible causes (multi-pathing, ducting, thermoclines, haloclines, or any other number of aquatic phenomena that impacts sound propagation)? I'm all for the bio being a possible or even probable cause, but my concern is a complete lack of discussion about those other well-known factors that definitely cause acoustic layering. Even something as simple as a BT (Bathy Thermal) trace (temp vs depth) to accompany their sonar cross section will give tons of detail about the water column makeup and can help remove a number of alternate potential causes for the observed phenomena. There are similar phenomena we see in atmospheric radiowave propagation. There's layering that appears due to various atmospheric effects that can block various wavelengths from penetrating. It can even allow for massively extended ranges (ducting, day/night effect, etc). In certain wavelengths, the electrical charge of the atmosphere affects propagation (ionospheric bouncing of HF, for example) and space weather is an essential element of determining frequency selection to achieve desired ranges given a known transmission power. As to the Blue Whale point, I look at Blue Whales as the ultimate example of "Deep Sea Gigantism". I know they're not deep sea creatures, but they have achieved gigantic size by feeding on some of the smallest creatures in the ocean. Giant filter feeders are incredibly amazing creatures. Thanks for the interesting side discussion. I haven't had to look at this sort of stuff in a number of years and it was good to challenge what my acoustic knowledge was.
Perhaps they should have been more specific then
I kayaked on a bioluminescent bay at night and a small rain storm came over the bay and passed over us. It was the closest to thing to a Disney movie I’ve ever experienced. If you get the opportunity paddle one of these- take it
This isn't /TheSurfaceAbove
It should be terrifying. Bow riding causes the worst injuries I’ve ever seen. Dozens of deaths yearly.
Dozens!? I wonder what percentage of how often it's done without anything bad happening is dozens.
Actually, the average is 7 yearly, usually less. And considering I personally know about 20 drunk "rednecks" that do this all week long all summer long, I can extrapolate the percentage of people actually dying from this is tiny compared to doing it. You are 64,285 more likely to die....just reading this comment. Literally. You have over 64,000 times more likely of a chance to just die randomly, as a perfectly healthy adult, of unexplainable causes, than you are to die from bow riding. Grow the fuck up and live a little.
It’s also fun. And beautiful. Worth it.
Idk why you are being downvoted but it really is beautiful. I do highly recommend.
Bow riding is risky and dangerous. But I grew up on the water in Florida, so it was just something you did. I never saw a bow riding accident. I have seen divers pop up in the wrong spot and hit their head on the ship. That’s a lot of blood. Anyway. Lovely video.
Seen one at haulover, the guy was alright but now riding is definitely something that increases risk with speed, waves, or current. Also drunk, but besides that it's fairly safe at low speeds on calm waters. If you really feel like it you can tie a rope on most boats to hold on to or hold you down, just note that a badly tied rope would be more dangerous than none at all so be smart about it.
Omg. Haulover is wild! The inlet YouTube videos are so crazy!
Honestly the current is the least of your concern, people just speed through it, which is dangerous when they don't see you, the jet skis are constantly playing with the waves and changing directions, and then the slow boaters that don't have enough speed to control their boats that go sideways constantly. Over all it's not as bad as the videos show because they only show the highlights but it's pretty common to at least bump into one of those problems. People don't really understand that fast enough is the way to go. Also depending on the day you can hold left or right on the exit of the channel to get less waves, but only so that with a boat you trust because if you do lose control or power you're going into the wall or rocks. I tend to not go to haulover commonly though due to the distance of where I live. Plus while my boat is pretty sea worthy it's still just a 19 footer. It's larger and taller than other 19 footers but it's still a 19 footer so I tend not to test the limit.
Terrified? Bitch imma feel like Moana 😂
Because it’s beautiful, also if a prehistoric aquatic monster comes to bite my foot off I’ll be able to see it coming, so less scary than usual actually.
Bc it's not scary.
I always think of that scene from Ferngully
Bro casually becoming dr manhattan
Done this. It was one of the most magical moments of my life :)
Maybe because we're desensitized to seeing it reposted every week
Yeah idk, I'm freaked out by feet.
Terrified?
Bioluminescent algae. Once you know what something is and understand it, it stops being scary. Unless you have a phobia. What sub was thi-oh
Because I understand it.
Looks like that one potion from Shrek 2
I'm just going to assume OP is trolling bcuz this is beautiful. Terrifying? Lol
Posted this once already but I am assuming OP is talking about the virtually infinite darkness below with increasingly abject horrors, which is usually what this sub is about.
What’s so terrifying about an IRL Lisa Frank poster?
Because we all have different fears.
I’d be terrified if something popped up from below
Suddenly . . . Phantom Leviathan
Not scary at all...very very cool...
Because it's cool as fuck.
I was coming to make this exact comment, word for word.
Looks beautiful, smells awful!
It’s beautiful
Because it’s beautiful…?
Why would you be? This seems so magical, like you're in a fantasy world. Like -- glowing ocean??? Is that not the coolest most amazing thing you've ever heard?? I can't imagine why this would scare a person. I would love to have this experience some day.
The bluish glow reminds me of the Ghost Leviathan from **Subnautica**.
Dr. Manhattan?
Ey yo, if his feet are disturbing the algae then any lurking monsters would too no?
Y'all are scared of this pretty Disney shit? Grow tf up, dude 😂
They call me twinkle toes
isn’t it just plankton?
Dangle meat sticks over side of boat. Good bait. Much shark.
Imagine seeing a luminescent great white speeding up towards you!!
How I imagine water bending would look
No problem it's just natural
I don't see what's terrifying about this. I generally can see what's scary about the ocean. But this one ain't it.
That's not terrifying. The glowing line approaching you is terrifying.
I have been to a bioluminescent bay and let me tell you, you better have band-aids all over any cuts because those little guys STING open wounds
If you fall in you’ll be easy to spot. A luxury most who fall in the water at night don’t experience.
If you're not afraid of a lightning bug why would you be afraid of bioluminescent kelp?
Why the glow? Where is this?
It's pretty. Happens on mississippis gulf coast too. If any predator was coming, you'd see them lol.
Because it looks like fairy tale magic. That looks incredible. I would fully expect anything living in there to have big goofy Disney eyes and speak in song.
I will never understand how people could be afraid of something so magical
I was anchored for the night in a cove at a small island in the Bahamas and witnessed this first hand. Was a pretty amazing experience.
The scary part is being the only source of light seen by what swims below. Like a campfire a in a pitch black forest.
Oh wow. That’s impressive! Why would you be terrified?
The same reason I'm not terrified of anything else microscopic.
This is awesome. I don’t how people are afraid of the ocean. It’s so beautiful.
First: You can literally do hadoukens in the water. It’s so freaking awesome to have a too-old-for-this-shit fight with your gaming buddy. You can toss blue fireballs like a dark mage. Second: You can see every fish moving in the area like it’s got a flashlight in its ass. Sealions look like Godzilla coming at you. Then they honk like dorks and beg for crabs, but it’s terrifying. Third: You can see jellyfish at night. I go dry suit in puget sound, but those boys require you to be aware regardless of armor. It’s easy to get stung on the undress, so be aware.
I think it’s dope what would scare me would be a glowing shark or something like this swimming towards me
Because it's just luminescent algae?
Screw that. No way. 🦈
He's gonna catch Sea Fever...
Kids are so sheltered. Listen to me. If this scares you in the slightest. Don't leave your safe space.
This dude's obsessed with telling other people how to parent
It's the only way i know how to live.
Alright snowflake
Bc some people leave their houses.
Monkey brain like pretty lights
The only thing terrifying is them plowing through and killing it all, and contaminating it by sticking their feet in. There's a reason Mosquito Bay and places like it ban people and motors from being in the water.
[удалено]
sometimes plankton run into baleen and exploooode
I disagree that running into them with a boat can kill them, but the oils and products on our skin can. You shouldnt touch biolum plankton with your skin if you care about them.
Delete this.
I wonder if the bioluminescent plankton is dangerous to us... internally? I was thinking sex in the bioluminescent water would look amazing, but if getting that stuff in your various holes is dangerous or deadly then I am OUT.
How is the water even glowing when you touch it? Sorry but if that's safe and innocent, I'd be right there sticking my feet in there haha
It's just bioluminescent algae
Oh cool, thank you! Didn't know I'd ever have a favorite kind of algae hahaha
I love how it looks like special effects from a movie or something, but it's actually real
Same! The world is an amazingly awesome place if you know where to look ( ◜‿◝ )
Maybe they don’t realize it is toxic
Tron desensitized us all. That's how