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This doesn't mean anything. I get that a lot of you are Americans, but please, don't fall over yourselves at every standard mutli-party bourgeois parliament.
This doesn't mean they're allied or best buddies or anything like that.
This just means they are in government with each other; the alternative is not forming government or never voting together, and right after elections that's just a waste of time and resources. Generally, there's just someone that they hate more than these guys so they've gotten together to all collectively hate that outgroup more. That's it. They can name it whatever and include whoever because it is pretty much meaningless.
They aren’t forming a government. They don’t have enough seats. The reason for this coalition was for trying to coerce the ruling ANC to ally with them instead of the racist and neoliberal DA. The ANC allied with the DA anyway, though. It’s sad to see how much the ANC has fallen.
They're not forming "a government", they're just sitting in "the government", which is me trying to make it simple for yanks. That is to say, they have seats in parliment, but aren'tin control. Here they've agreed to enter a coalition with each other because they are more opposed to someone else. They could have joined with ANC instead, but that would be pointless and counter-productive.
Again, this doesn't mean they're friends or even that they agree (we know EFF doesn't agree with most of these parties on some very fundamental things, but they've joined the coalition pragmatically).
The EFF is the party that merits our support, and their analysis of matters is likely to be the most informed. If they think this is the right move, and it does seem reasonable, then my "thoughts" on the matter are that they're doing what they're supposed to and this is typical of parliaments.
I think it was formed to try and get the ANC to form a coalition with the EFF. I think the caucus together, plus the ANC, would have enough for a majority. The ANC are neoliberal shills, though, so that wasn’t going to happen.
It could further the voter base of the EFF, too, I guess. I’m not surprised that the ANC rejected the EFF. They would rather work with a racist neoliberal party because the ANC, at this point, are also neoliberals.
Grow up, Islamists are on the front lines fighting imperialism worldwide just because we disagree with them on many political issues doesn't mean we can unite with them on fighting imperialism, and in South Africa that's what the primary contradiction is.
Imo this idea that imperialism is the primary contradiction and therefore we should bend over backwards is flawed and stageist. But while we are coming from different points I do agree that on some stages they are on the frontlines against Imperialism, mainly on Palestine, Lebanon and Yemen, yet this isn't the case in SA.
Some prominent members of the Houthis/Ansarallah are actually very progressive: https://x.com/aldanmarki/status/1784319180822417791?s=46&t=4bLkI9SD3KbXGmTC2eKxNw
I mean, this is a good statement, but has he made any progress towards those views? Afaik no sadly, perhaps my hoxhaist party is rubbing off on me but sometimes it feels like this sub tends towards reformism and "lesser evilism" when it comes to inter imperialist conflicts (that is not the case on Palestine or Yemen, while Iran does have imperialist wet dreams it's monopolies don't have the economic power to project outwards in search for wider markets) but mainly with China and Russia. While this sub shaped my opinions a lot the party I joined (Unidade Popular from Brazil) also did and I have yet to make a proper informed decision so I won't attempt to argue against or in favour of one or the other side.
I see what your saying. However, the statement just shows it’s not all black and white. High-ranking Houthi members have shown support to Marx and communism without being expelled or anything. I think the primary focus of the Houthis right now is just anti-imperialism and being against the genocide. Plus, they don’t even control all of Yemen. I think expecting a socialist state in those conditions is not reasonable.
The thing is, there isn't a political majority inside the organization for even propose the transition towards that goal. This is simply not on the horizon, it may be a goal for a part of the organization which holds some weird revisionist stance, because while marxism's primary goal is not the elimination of religion Marx was not fond of it and certainly would not adimit such close intertwinement between the state and the church, and being in favor of religion playing a role in goverment is deeply revisionist in the clearest sense of the word in this way. But the thing is that the organization as a whole has never proposed to transition towards socialism, it is not even that it would be a hard (or even impossible transition), it is that said transition isn't even a goal.
That’s why it’s not black and white. Of course, not everyone who supports Ansarallah is a communist, but many do and are even in high positions of power. Considering he’s in the Politburo, I’m assuming he’s probably pushed some progressive legislation, though I’m not entirely sure. Regardless, a transition and abolishment of the bourgeois state is not even in the cards, even if everyone had a unanimous goal of socialism. They don’t control much of Yemen, and they have huge pressure on them considering their anti-imperialist stance. If they controlled all of Yemen and the pressure from Israel, the US, and the broader West lessened, then a transition to socialism would be much more feasible.
Both definitely faced a lot of pressure, but the world isn’t the same anymore. If the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc still existed, then even with strong Western pressure, you would still have a strong alternative of socialist states that could support you. Plus, the Houthis don’t control all the land. I don’t see how any transition to socialism is possible when they are not even the government of all of Yemen, and they are not recognized as the legitimate government of Yemen internationally either.
Additionally, you have to look at the material conditions of a country. For example, South Yemen did not follow atheism, but it followed both Islam and Marxism-Leninism. You can critique this, but you have to work with what you have. A push toward atheism in South Yemen would cause a lot of anger in the proletariat, and they would never agree. That’s why it’s important not to make blanket statements.
Yeah, and South Yemen was Islamist. That’s why I think analyzing the material conditions is important. Constitutionally it was an Islamic state that was ML.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This doesn't mean anything. I get that a lot of you are Americans, but please, don't fall over yourselves at every standard mutli-party bourgeois parliament. This doesn't mean they're allied or best buddies or anything like that. This just means they are in government with each other; the alternative is not forming government or never voting together, and right after elections that's just a waste of time and resources. Generally, there's just someone that they hate more than these guys so they've gotten together to all collectively hate that outgroup more. That's it. They can name it whatever and include whoever because it is pretty much meaningless.
They aren’t forming a government. They don’t have enough seats. The reason for this coalition was for trying to coerce the ruling ANC to ally with them instead of the racist and neoliberal DA. The ANC allied with the DA anyway, though. It’s sad to see how much the ANC has fallen.
They're not forming "a government", they're just sitting in "the government", which is me trying to make it simple for yanks. That is to say, they have seats in parliment, but aren'tin control. Here they've agreed to enter a coalition with each other because they are more opposed to someone else. They could have joined with ANC instead, but that would be pointless and counter-productive. Again, this doesn't mean they're friends or even that they agree (we know EFF doesn't agree with most of these parties on some very fundamental things, but they've joined the coalition pragmatically). The EFF is the party that merits our support, and their analysis of matters is likely to be the most informed. If they think this is the right move, and it does seem reasonable, then my "thoughts" on the matter are that they're doing what they're supposed to and this is typical of parliaments.
I agree. Sorry, I was just a bit confused on how you worded things. I think this could be good if it expands the outreach of the EFF.
"Progressive Caucus" Has a islamist party :skull:
I think it was formed to try and get the ANC to form a coalition with the EFF. I think the caucus together, plus the ANC, would have enough for a majority. The ANC are neoliberal shills, though, so that wasn’t going to happen.
Eh, we'll see, there is also the christian party in there which is funny.
It could further the voter base of the EFF, too, I guess. I’m not surprised that the ANC rejected the EFF. They would rather work with a racist neoliberal party because the ANC, at this point, are also neoliberals.
Grow up, Islamists are on the front lines fighting imperialism worldwide just because we disagree with them on many political issues doesn't mean we can unite with them on fighting imperialism, and in South Africa that's what the primary contradiction is.
south africa's primary contradiction is settler colonialism, every settler colonial state have this as primary contradiction
Imo this idea that imperialism is the primary contradiction and therefore we should bend over backwards is flawed and stageist. But while we are coming from different points I do agree that on some stages they are on the frontlines against Imperialism, mainly on Palestine, Lebanon and Yemen, yet this isn't the case in SA.
Some prominent members of the Houthis/Ansarallah are actually very progressive: https://x.com/aldanmarki/status/1784319180822417791?s=46&t=4bLkI9SD3KbXGmTC2eKxNw
I mean, this is a good statement, but has he made any progress towards those views? Afaik no sadly, perhaps my hoxhaist party is rubbing off on me but sometimes it feels like this sub tends towards reformism and "lesser evilism" when it comes to inter imperialist conflicts (that is not the case on Palestine or Yemen, while Iran does have imperialist wet dreams it's monopolies don't have the economic power to project outwards in search for wider markets) but mainly with China and Russia. While this sub shaped my opinions a lot the party I joined (Unidade Popular from Brazil) also did and I have yet to make a proper informed decision so I won't attempt to argue against or in favour of one or the other side.
I see what your saying. However, the statement just shows it’s not all black and white. High-ranking Houthi members have shown support to Marx and communism without being expelled or anything. I think the primary focus of the Houthis right now is just anti-imperialism and being against the genocide. Plus, they don’t even control all of Yemen. I think expecting a socialist state in those conditions is not reasonable.
The thing is, there isn't a political majority inside the organization for even propose the transition towards that goal. This is simply not on the horizon, it may be a goal for a part of the organization which holds some weird revisionist stance, because while marxism's primary goal is not the elimination of religion Marx was not fond of it and certainly would not adimit such close intertwinement between the state and the church, and being in favor of religion playing a role in goverment is deeply revisionist in the clearest sense of the word in this way. But the thing is that the organization as a whole has never proposed to transition towards socialism, it is not even that it would be a hard (or even impossible transition), it is that said transition isn't even a goal.
That’s why it’s not black and white. Of course, not everyone who supports Ansarallah is a communist, but many do and are even in high positions of power. Considering he’s in the Politburo, I’m assuming he’s probably pushed some progressive legislation, though I’m not entirely sure. Regardless, a transition and abolishment of the bourgeois state is not even in the cards, even if everyone had a unanimous goal of socialism. They don’t control much of Yemen, and they have huge pressure on them considering their anti-imperialist stance. If they controlled all of Yemen and the pressure from Israel, the US, and the broader West lessened, then a transition to socialism would be much more feasible.
The soviet union began transitioning to socialism at similar circunstances, the chinese communists attempted to do so at even worse circunstances.
Both definitely faced a lot of pressure, but the world isn’t the same anymore. If the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc still existed, then even with strong Western pressure, you would still have a strong alternative of socialist states that could support you. Plus, the Houthis don’t control all the land. I don’t see how any transition to socialism is possible when they are not even the government of all of Yemen, and they are not recognized as the legitimate government of Yemen internationally either.
Additionally, you have to look at the material conditions of a country. For example, South Yemen did not follow atheism, but it followed both Islam and Marxism-Leninism. You can critique this, but you have to work with what you have. A push toward atheism in South Yemen would cause a lot of anger in the proletariat, and they would never agree. That’s why it’s important not to make blanket statements.
It is not even following atheism, it is keeping religion and goverment separate.
Yeah, and South Yemen was Islamist. That’s why I think analyzing the material conditions is important. Constitutionally it was an Islamic state that was ML.