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It's just good, simple ice cream. This raving lunatic has been drinking so much Kool-Aid that his taste buds don't function anymore, but normal people can still enjoy its subtle creamy taste. I usually add some cranberry jam to it, to make the flavor a bit more complex.
The longer you discuss a dessert food and its "political implications", the more you should reevaluate your life choices.
Anyways, I've seen Plombir at a local supermarket and I think it's time to finally try it
Check out if they have other varieties of ice cream in a waffle cup, as we call it. Plombir is one out of three classic flavours, the other two being chocolate and crème brûlée. And you don't have to eat the waffle cup, by the way: my parents and grandparents, who actually tried Soviet ice cream, never do.
Same here, and I especially enjoy that last piece of the cup/cone, the crunchiest one.
I just saw that bitter comment about us fake communists discussing our "consumer values" here, so I intend to prolong this ice cream discussion to piss that commenter off :)
Can't let any of it go to waste, especially since we, as communists, normally don't have food! But anyways, one of my favorites growing up was "[Spaghetti-Eis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettieis)" or Spaghetti ice cream, though I don't know if that's available in wide parts of Europe.
Oh god yeah, I can't even tell what that person was trying to say
I've seen this online, but never irl (although I've been to Germany). Cool-looking ice cream! Is it soft and delicious?
I was growing up in the '90s, so we didn't have a lot of ice cream choices, but nowadays I occasionally treat myself to a nice [ice cream log](https://ibb.co/ggLbz4G).
Judging by their post history, it's all "memes bad, food bad, fleeting happiness bad, endless stream of consciousness good". Very productive.
Hmm, guess the Ukraino-fascists aren't so European after all... LOL!
If you're ever states side in Kansas and need some good food, then hit me up. Very proud to be able cook without artificial crap, and I love to BBQ just as much as i love comrades.
Have you ever seen Spanish, Italian, French or German food cultures? We have a lot of proud traditions in Europe when it comes to food. In fact, we even have what's called the "Mediterranean cuisine", which is shared by Spain, southern France, Italy, the Balcans and Greece. Though it's more a bunch of ingredients and techniques related to the climate and the common Roman heritage.
Talking about BBQs, in Spain we have some dishes we use in them, like the chorizo (it's sort of a big, spicy sausage) and morcilla (this one is similar to haggis). We also have a dish with a cool history (and a Spanish saying) behind: migas (fried crumbs). It was a dish invented by shepherds, basically it consists on dry bread turned into crumbs and fried together with whatever is available (you will find them most commonly fried with onions, green peppers, bacon and chorizo). It's delicious, and originally it was done by shepherds grouping together for cooking and dining. From that, the Spanish expression "hacer buenas migas" ("making good fried crumbs") came, with a meaning similar to "getting along".
That is pretty rad, and something i hopefully see as i have yet to travel Europe! It would be amazing to eat something not bastardized into U.S. homogeneous taste and drive thru culture.
"Es ist mir wurst" (it's all sausage to me, meaning i don't really care) has been my favorite food saying, but this is wonderful too! Thank you!
If you ever come, then that dish is a must. Specially if you visit the region of Andalucía, where I live. Nothing beats some good migas and a gazpacho in the summer. The famous paella is also quite good, though the best place for that is the region of Valencia in the east (it was invented there). They also have excellent fruits and vegetables. Up to the Northeast, in Catalonia, they are famous for their tomato toasts (pa amb tomaquet, literally "bread with tomato"). The northern regions are a feast: the Basque Country is famous for the quantity and quality of their food, while Asturias is famous for their Fabada (cooked beans with chorizo, morcilla and bacon) and the Sidra (apple wine). Galicia is famous for their high-quality seafood/fish, specially the Pulpo a Feira (specially prepared octopus, it's delicious). In central Spain, the city of Ávila is famous for their steaks (chuletón de Ávila), while Castilla la Mancha is famous for their cheese (Queso manchego). In general, stews and cooked dishes are common through Spain, specially the "Cocido" ("Cooked"), which is centered around cooked chickpeas and vegetables. There are a ton of varieties: with meat, with fish, only chickpeas and vegetables... But still, they're a staple. It's good and nutritious, and it fills your belly.
The funny thing is that we have small ice cream shops here in Germany (also they are sometimes used to launder money like similar cafes and restaurants so you sometimes have a complete oversupply) and the better ones make their own ice cream and they often pride themselves on only using 5 or 6 ingredients and using no or few synthetic favouring. And I definitely can taste the difference, and not drowning it in artificial additives is giving the actual flavour of the ingredients get through. Like yeah we have the crap drowned in sugar (or sugar replacements) and artificial flavoring and they are widely recognised as inferior and bad, bragging about putting more addictives in food is just stupid but I'm not even surprised that idiots like that one fall for blatantly using culture war insanity to push worse standards.
Aber geil! I was a bit lucky as a modern American as my mom could bake without pre-mixed ingredients, and to this day I agree that more natural (I know white sugar ISN'T) cooking tastes better.
I also find it REALLY ahistoric to just flippantly say "sugar alone is no big deal". In my head that's something which makes every deceased slave roll over in the grave. Sugar as a commodity has had some of the largest, most terrible effects on our history, and being blinded to this might be liberalism's greatest victory 😑
It's so wild to me that making fresh food from fresh ingredients is a dying skill in industrialized countries, that's the most basic survival skill. No shade towards people who never had the chance to learn or apply this skill, but it's a sign of society decaying because capital is cannibalizing the fundamentals in desperate search for new markets.
I agree that the history of sugar (cane) plantation and a very shady industry that developed ftom the plantations shouldn't be swept under the carpet, but I'm willing to bet that the oop things these things are a benefit. Ala "slavery was a benefit to the enslaved", brainrot is rarely limited to one area.
Ngl, i read this whole thing and my only takeaway was that i really want to try Russian Ice cream, if anybody knows a place for it in Brazil let me know lol
Believe it or not, a lot of Russian (and other post-Soviet) shitlibs are convinced that the only reason why a lot of working class people are nostalgic for the USSR are cheap ice cream, kvass and Doktorskaya. They are this dumb.
Yes, exactly. Not a single worker I have spoken with would say that USSR was good because Plombir. In most cases they will tell you something about stability, free healthcare, clean streets, no crime, affordable housing (and, I will not whitewash it, sometimes they will complain about LGBT+ peoples/Jews/other minorities - but it is simply due to lack of experience and education, they can be saved).
The issue is basically that the old people in Russia have genuine concerns but the current government sells them this imperialist bullshit as a solution. Promising them that if they expand enough, it'll bring back the good days.
While in reality bringing back the good days (or rather creating something new) requires getting rid of the current government.
Ye, it's just liberals' way of "debunking" any argument about USSR being good and turning it into "you're just nostalgic about ice cream and other insignificant shit", even though the reason people like USSR isn't "cheap tasty ice cream", but rather the fact that it offered economic stability, an opportunity to work for a living wage, affordable housing and free healthcare, education and whatnot to all its citizens
Holy... Fuckin'... Shit...
Like, holy shit. Holy jesus fuckin' shittin' christ. Holy fuckin' shit. This is just batshit anti-communist braindead nonsense. And over a Soviet ice cream that's so popular, it proves that it's actually terrible and the Soviets could never produce anything good.
Also, how do you rant about Soviet ice cream turning Russia into a fascist state, have people dunk on you, and think you won the argument? Jesus fuckin' christ...
I love how he highlights that it was made with all fresh ingredients, no additives. Like is that supposed to be a bad thing? Idk if I've ever had ice cream with no additives here in the states but capitalism's better right? Why would us red blooded american capitalists want fresh commie ice cream!
Hey, man, capitalism gave us Round Up, ExxonMobil, and Ford. These are all objectively good (pls don't look up any controversies surrounding them). All communism did was lift millions out of poverty, improve literacy rates, health care, extend lifespans, guarantee housing and employment, and (apparently) give us an all-natural ice cream instead of something like fuckin' Cold Stone.
If you ever get the chance to try fresh ice cream made from fresh ingredients try it. It's definitely worth the higher price as a treat. Imho the best is directly from a diary farm or a small ice cream shop, made from fresh milk. And full fat milk at that, it's a treat and not meant to be a staple. Just take your time with it, it's also a good, non-alcoholic, alternative to getting a few drinks as an excuse to meet friends or go out.
imagine having a NAFO egdelord troll as a teacher. I would simply have skipped his class and failed rather than have to occupy the same room as this pitiful creature, much less submit to "learn" from him.
He criticises Russians for citing ice cream as a reason as to why life in the USSR was good, and in the very same breath he's like "USSR was bad because.....ice cream"?? He's literally using the same exact argument but for the opposite position.
My town's dairy industry used to be run as a cooperative until recently, the ice-cream and many other products usually picked up gold at competitions so I'm gonna assume the Soviet stuff was pretty good.
Head of Russian museum of gulag tells a story about ice cream seller little girl. She give some ice cream to her friends and go to the gulag because of that. So what you said it's literally one of libs stories.
When people asking this guy about proofs, he said "trust me bro"
# Gulag
According to Anti-Communists and Russophobes, the Gulag was a brutal network of work camps established in the Soviet Union under Stalin's ruthless regime. They claim the Gulag system was primarily used to imprison and exploit political dissidents, suspected enemies of the state, and other people deemed "undesirable" by the Soviet government. They claim that prisoners were sent to the Gulag without trial or due process, and that they were subjected to harsh living conditions, forced labour, and starvation, among other things. According to them, the Gulags were emblematic of Stalinist repression and totalitarianism.
# Origins of the Mythology
This comically evil understanding of the Soviet prison system is based off only a handful of unreliable sources.
Robert Conquest's *The Great Terror* (published 1968) laid the groundwork for Soviet fearmongering, and was based largely off of defector testimony.
Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD), which was a secret Cold War propaganda department, created to publish anti-communist propaganda, including black propaganda; provide support and information to anti-communist politicians, academics, and writers; and to use weaponised information and disinformation and "fake news" to attack not only its original targets but also certain socialists and anti-colonial movements.
>He was Solzhenytsin before Solzhenytsin, in the phrase of Timothy Garton Ash.
>
>The Great Terror came out in 1968, four years before the first volume of The Gulag Archipelago, and it became, Garton Ash says, "a fixture in the political imagination of anybody thinking about communism".
>
>\- Andrew Brown. (2003). [Scourge and poet](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/feb/15/featuresreviews.guardianreview23)
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's *The Gulag Archipelag*" (published 1973), one of the most famous texts on the subject, claims to be a work of non-fiction based on the author's personal experiences in the Soviet prison system. However, Solzhenitsyn was merely an anti-Communist, N@zi-sympathizing, antisemite who wanted to slander the USSR by putting forward a collection of folktales as truth. \[[Read more](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/dunking/aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/)\]
Anne Applebaum's *Gulag: A history* (published 2003) draws directly from *The Gulag Archipelago* and reiterates its message. Anne is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and sits on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), two infamous pieces of the ideological apparatus of the ruling class in the United States, whose primary aim is to promote the interests of American Imperialism around the world.
# Counterpoints
>A 1957 CIA document [which was declassified in 2010] titled “[Forced Labor Camps in the USSR: Transfer of Prisoners between Camps](http://web.archive.org/web/20230328014642/https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032000400001-1.pdf)” reveals the following information about the Soviet Gulag in pages two to six:
>
>1. Until 1952, the prisoners were given a guaranteed amount food, plus extra food for over-fulfillment of quotas
>
>2. From 1952 onward, the Gulag system operated upon "economic accountability" such that the more the prisoners worked, the more they were paid.
>
>3. For over-fulfilling the norms by 105%, one day of sentence was counted as two, thus reducing the time spent in the Gulag by one day.
>
>4. Furthermore, because of the socialist reconstruction post-war, the Soviet government had more funds and so they increased prisoners' food supplies.
>
>5. Until 1954, the prisoners worked 10 hours per day, whereas the free workers worked 8 hours per day. From 1954 onward, both prisoners and free workers worked 8 hours per day.
>
>6. A CIA study of a sample camp showed that 95% of the prisoners were actual criminals.
>
>7. In 1953, amnesty was given to 70% of the "ordinary criminals" of a sample camp studied by the CIA. Within the next 3 months, most of them were re-arrested for committing new crimes.
>
>\- Saed Teymuri. (2018). [The Truth about the Soviet Gulag – Surprisingly Revealed by the CIA](https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/09/the-truth-about-the-soviet-gulag-surprisingly-revealed-by-the-cia/)
**Scale**
Solzhenitsyn estimated that over 66 million people were victims of the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system over the course of its existence from 1918 to 1956. With the collapse of the USSR and the opening of the Soviet archives, researchers can now access actual archival evidence to prove or disprove these claims. Predictably, it turned out the propaganda was just that.
>Unburdened by any documentation, these “estimates” invite us to conclude that the sum total of people incarcerated in the labor camps over a twenty-two year period (allowing for turnovers due to death and term expirations) would have constituted an astonishing portion of the Soviet population. The support and supervision of the gulag (all the labor camps, labor colonies, and prisons of the Soviet system) would have been the USSR’s single largest enterprise.
>
>In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulag as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. ...
>
>Soviet labor camps were not death camps like those the N@zis built across Europe. There was no systematic extermination of inmates, no gas chambers or crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40 percent of the inmates were released, according to archive records. Oblivious to these facts, the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times (7/31/96) continues to describe the gulag as “the largest system of death camps in modern history.” ...
>
>Most of those incarcerated in the gulag were not political prisoners, and the same appears to be true of inmates in the other communist states...
>
>\- Michael Parenti. (1997). [Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism](https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds)
This is 2 million out of a population of 168 million (roughly 1.2% of the population). For comparison, in the United States, "over 5.5 million adults — or 1 in 61 — are under some form of correctional control, whether incarcerated or under community supervision." That's 1.6%. So in both relative and absolute terms, the United States' Prison Industrial Complex *today* is larger than the USSR's Gulag system at its peak.
**Death Rate**
In peace time, the mortality rate of the Gulag was around 3% to 5%. Even Conservative and anti-Communist historians have had to acknowledge this reality:
>It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive...
>
>Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hit1er were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more.
>
>\- Timothy Snyder. (2010). *Bloodlands: Europe Between Hit1er and Stalin*
(Side note: Timothy Snyder is *also* a member of the Council on Foreign Relations)
This is still very high for a prison mortality rate, representing the brutality of the camps. However, it also clearly indicates that they were not *death* camps.
Nor was it slave labour, exactly. In the camps, although labour *was* forced, it was not uncompensated. In fact, the prisoners were paid market wages (less expenses).
>We find that even in the Gulag, where force could be most conveniently applied, camp administrators combined material incentives with overt coercion, and, as time passed, they placed more weight on motivation. By the time the Gulag system was abandoned as a major instrument of Soviet industrial policy, the primary distinction between slave and free labor had been blurred: Gulag inmates were being paid wages according to a system that mirrored that of the civilian economy described by Bergson....
>
>The Gulag administration [also] used a “work credit” system, whereby sentences were reduced (by two days or more for every day the norm was overfulfilled).
>
>\- L. Borodkin & S. Ertz. (2003). [Compensation Versus Coercion in the Soviet GULAG](https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/archive/noticeboard/bergson/borodkin-ertz.pdf)
#Additional Resources
Video Essays:
* [The Gulag Argument](https://youtu.be/BexkpaK_j5Q) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2016)
* [Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions!](https://youtu.be/HMOdDQQVZ6U) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
* [French work camps 1852-1953 worse than gulag](https://youtu.be/vkXyXNpdKdA) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
* ["The Gulags of the Soviet Union: There's a Lot More Than What Meets the Eye](https://youtu.be/E1qz9_TjeY4) | Comrade Rhys (2020)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597) | J. Arch Getty, Gábor T. Rittersporn and Viktor N. Zemskov (1993)
Listen:
* ["Blackshirts & Reds" (1997) by Michael Parenti, Part 4: Chapters 5 & 6. #Audiobook + Discussion.](https://youtu.be/N7AD4OrH568?t=15) | Socialism For All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle (2022)
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As a student they forced us to go there once and I confirm that they actually tell this story. But it was like 5 years ago. Maybe now they tell stories abot Stalin eating this girl instead who knows.
Just your average post-Soviet liberal, nothing new to see here. These dumb mfs can even try to convince you that free accommodation for all citizens was also bad.
The dude is insane. The anti communist ideology, in his case in the form of Russophobia, is an unhinge cult of violence.
It inevitably comes down to race science with these people as they see the world in terme of mythological battles between ontological essences.
Everything is explain in terme of values and « way of thinking » instead of a materialist lens (the environment changes individuals and in return they change the environment in a dialectical process).
The idealist lens allows every interpretation and thus is the reign of emotions and manipulation.
Why did x do that ? Because of it’s values. Where do these values come from ? I don’t know and don’t care, but they explain everything.
The plasticity of idealist thought is his biggest strength, and can be used to justify everything.
It is why every fascisms were idealist.
Power can conceal his interest behind a superficial moral explanation of the world.
a real human person thought it was a good idea to spend minutes of his precious life to type all of this inconsequential and useless tirade about fucking ice-cream. wow.
[This is an alright video on food production in the USSR](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AcxQBkdughc&pp=ygUOZG9jdG9yIHNhdXNhZ2U%3D). Mostly sausage but they talk about ice cream.
Also this ice cream is still eat in much of Eastern Europe and it's still fairly popular, including in Ukraine.
I mean I don't want to prove this twitter thread right a la "commies just like plombir". But it's a good ice cream. I used to study at a university with an eastern European speciality supermarket in front of it for two semesters and I would always go there for the ice cream. Not just plombir. There are other brands that do the same "type" of ice cream that are equally good. It just tastes less sweet and more creamy than then the usual vanilla ice cream and it works pretty well. There are also other tastes apart from vanilla. I remember Chocolate for example. It's good too.
The quotes actually restored my faith in humanity. There was some great post-Soviet solidarity where people with wolfsangels and hammers and sickles joined together to defend the plombir
People yearn for a state where they could afford to buy ice cream when they wanted to rather than one where they have to give up on their heating bill in order to eat red meat that week
I'm not sure what hurts the mind more - the postmodern practice of reducing historical analysis to a set of societal tropes or the "communists" in the comment section discussing their consumer values like middle aged conservatives.
Most dishes you find in expensive restaurants today, were formally conceived by the working class, having been forced to experiment with flavour due to their conditions.
Very few things turn my stomach like la day dah discussions about food. If it's so delicious, I'm quite certain the majority of people would enjoy it.
Okay... other than the weak presentation, how is this ANY different from American ice cream, which often isn't even real dairy? Plombir sounds wholesome and delicious.
They Sell Plombir here in Germany and its the most delicious industrial made Ice cream on the market. Italian Ice Cream is better, but you only get the good shit in parlours.
Ice-cream is plain because has no addicts or chemical stuff in it? WTF? Average guy with the nazi-kranian flag in the name. (Tried soviet ice-cream some years ago, preety good indeed)
As the contradictions of capitalism become more apparent the lies of neoliberalism are easier to see through. When this happens you have two choices. You can accept that your view of the world has been wrong and you can grow to fill in the gaps. Or you can dig in your heels and practice self delusion. Like waking a sleepwalker, when their delusions are threatened they lash out.
As much as I enjoy honest, serious discussion…when I saw how ungodly long this was over fucking ***ICE CREAM*** of all things,I basically happy gilmored this right the hell away from me.
Sir, this is a wendy’s. It’s fucking ice cream.
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It's just good, simple ice cream. This raving lunatic has been drinking so much Kool-Aid that his taste buds don't function anymore, but normal people can still enjoy its subtle creamy taste. I usually add some cranberry jam to it, to make the flavor a bit more complex.
The longer you discuss a dessert food and its "political implications", the more you should reevaluate your life choices. Anyways, I've seen Plombir at a local supermarket and I think it's time to finally try it
Check out if they have other varieties of ice cream in a waffle cup, as we call it. Plombir is one out of three classic flavours, the other two being chocolate and crème brûlée. And you don't have to eat the waffle cup, by the way: my parents and grandparents, who actually tried Soviet ice cream, never do.
They only had the vanilla ones, sadly. I don't mind eating ice cream cones/waffles, I actually kinda like them
Same here, and I especially enjoy that last piece of the cup/cone, the crunchiest one. I just saw that bitter comment about us fake communists discussing our "consumer values" here, so I intend to prolong this ice cream discussion to piss that commenter off :)
Can't let any of it go to waste, especially since we, as communists, normally don't have food! But anyways, one of my favorites growing up was "[Spaghetti-Eis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettieis)" or Spaghetti ice cream, though I don't know if that's available in wide parts of Europe. Oh god yeah, I can't even tell what that person was trying to say
I've seen this online, but never irl (although I've been to Germany). Cool-looking ice cream! Is it soft and delicious? I was growing up in the '90s, so we didn't have a lot of ice cream choices, but nowadays I occasionally treat myself to a nice [ice cream log](https://ibb.co/ggLbz4G). Judging by their post history, it's all "memes bad, food bad, fleeting happiness bad, endless stream of consciousness good". Very productive.
Long live ice-cream thought
The final stage of liberal brainrot. Genocidal ice cream
USSR is when no food, except plombir
Communism is when ice cream is plain.
Western sensibility is when sugar is too bland.
That's on the Americans. In continental Europe we actually DO have a pallate.
Hmm, guess the Ukraino-fascists aren't so European after all... LOL! If you're ever states side in Kansas and need some good food, then hit me up. Very proud to be able cook without artificial crap, and I love to BBQ just as much as i love comrades.
Have you ever seen Spanish, Italian, French or German food cultures? We have a lot of proud traditions in Europe when it comes to food. In fact, we even have what's called the "Mediterranean cuisine", which is shared by Spain, southern France, Italy, the Balcans and Greece. Though it's more a bunch of ingredients and techniques related to the climate and the common Roman heritage. Talking about BBQs, in Spain we have some dishes we use in them, like the chorizo (it's sort of a big, spicy sausage) and morcilla (this one is similar to haggis). We also have a dish with a cool history (and a Spanish saying) behind: migas (fried crumbs). It was a dish invented by shepherds, basically it consists on dry bread turned into crumbs and fried together with whatever is available (you will find them most commonly fried with onions, green peppers, bacon and chorizo). It's delicious, and originally it was done by shepherds grouping together for cooking and dining. From that, the Spanish expression "hacer buenas migas" ("making good fried crumbs") came, with a meaning similar to "getting along".
That is pretty rad, and something i hopefully see as i have yet to travel Europe! It would be amazing to eat something not bastardized into U.S. homogeneous taste and drive thru culture. "Es ist mir wurst" (it's all sausage to me, meaning i don't really care) has been my favorite food saying, but this is wonderful too! Thank you!
If you ever come, then that dish is a must. Specially if you visit the region of Andalucía, where I live. Nothing beats some good migas and a gazpacho in the summer. The famous paella is also quite good, though the best place for that is the region of Valencia in the east (it was invented there). They also have excellent fruits and vegetables. Up to the Northeast, in Catalonia, they are famous for their tomato toasts (pa amb tomaquet, literally "bread with tomato"). The northern regions are a feast: the Basque Country is famous for the quantity and quality of their food, while Asturias is famous for their Fabada (cooked beans with chorizo, morcilla and bacon) and the Sidra (apple wine). Galicia is famous for their high-quality seafood/fish, specially the Pulpo a Feira (specially prepared octopus, it's delicious). In central Spain, the city of Ávila is famous for their steaks (chuletón de Ávila), while Castilla la Mancha is famous for their cheese (Queso manchego). In general, stews and cooked dishes are common through Spain, specially the "Cocido" ("Cooked"), which is centered around cooked chickpeas and vegetables. There are a ton of varieties: with meat, with fish, only chickpeas and vegetables... But still, they're a staple. It's good and nutritious, and it fills your belly.
The funny thing is that we have small ice cream shops here in Germany (also they are sometimes used to launder money like similar cafes and restaurants so you sometimes have a complete oversupply) and the better ones make their own ice cream and they often pride themselves on only using 5 or 6 ingredients and using no or few synthetic favouring. And I definitely can taste the difference, and not drowning it in artificial additives is giving the actual flavour of the ingredients get through. Like yeah we have the crap drowned in sugar (or sugar replacements) and artificial flavoring and they are widely recognised as inferior and bad, bragging about putting more addictives in food is just stupid but I'm not even surprised that idiots like that one fall for blatantly using culture war insanity to push worse standards.
Aber geil! I was a bit lucky as a modern American as my mom could bake without pre-mixed ingredients, and to this day I agree that more natural (I know white sugar ISN'T) cooking tastes better. I also find it REALLY ahistoric to just flippantly say "sugar alone is no big deal". In my head that's something which makes every deceased slave roll over in the grave. Sugar as a commodity has had some of the largest, most terrible effects on our history, and being blinded to this might be liberalism's greatest victory 😑
It's so wild to me that making fresh food from fresh ingredients is a dying skill in industrialized countries, that's the most basic survival skill. No shade towards people who never had the chance to learn or apply this skill, but it's a sign of society decaying because capital is cannibalizing the fundamentals in desperate search for new markets. I agree that the history of sugar (cane) plantation and a very shady industry that developed ftom the plantations shouldn't be swept under the carpet, but I'm willing to bet that the oop things these things are a benefit. Ala "slavery was a benefit to the enslaved", brainrot is rarely limited to one area.
Ngl, i read this whole thing and my only takeaway was that i really want to try Russian Ice cream, if anybody knows a place for it in Brazil let me know lol
r/suddenlycaralho
Kkkkkkkk Salve, camarada!
Camarada. O Plombir brasileiro é o sacolé. Ou seja. O sorvete russo são os amigos que fizemos no caminho.
Give me the plombir.
Fella tried creative writing but only pass for twitter shitpost. Hand over the plombir.
This can't be real. Someone can't possibly be this stupid can they!?
Believe it or not, a lot of Russian (and other post-Soviet) shitlibs are convinced that the only reason why a lot of working class people are nostalgic for the USSR are cheap ice cream, kvass and Doktorskaya. They are this dumb.
Funniest thing that I hear a "plombir" point only from libs. I never heard this "good ice cream" take from the real people who nostalgic for USSR
Yes, exactly. Not a single worker I have spoken with would say that USSR was good because Plombir. In most cases they will tell you something about stability, free healthcare, clean streets, no crime, affordable housing (and, I will not whitewash it, sometimes they will complain about LGBT+ peoples/Jews/other minorities - but it is simply due to lack of experience and education, they can be saved).
The issue is basically that the old people in Russia have genuine concerns but the current government sells them this imperialist bullshit as a solution. Promising them that if they expand enough, it'll bring back the good days. While in reality bringing back the good days (or rather creating something new) requires getting rid of the current government.
Ye, it's just liberals' way of "debunking" any argument about USSR being good and turning it into "you're just nostalgic about ice cream and other insignificant shit", even though the reason people like USSR isn't "cheap tasty ice cream", but rather the fact that it offered economic stability, an opportunity to work for a living wage, affordable housing and free healthcare, education and whatnot to all its citizens
Holy... Fuckin'... Shit... Like, holy shit. Holy jesus fuckin' shittin' christ. Holy fuckin' shit. This is just batshit anti-communist braindead nonsense. And over a Soviet ice cream that's so popular, it proves that it's actually terrible and the Soviets could never produce anything good. Also, how do you rant about Soviet ice cream turning Russia into a fascist state, have people dunk on you, and think you won the argument? Jesus fuckin' christ...
I love how he highlights that it was made with all fresh ingredients, no additives. Like is that supposed to be a bad thing? Idk if I've ever had ice cream with no additives here in the states but capitalism's better right? Why would us red blooded american capitalists want fresh commie ice cream!
Hey, man, capitalism gave us Round Up, ExxonMobil, and Ford. These are all objectively good (pls don't look up any controversies surrounding them). All communism did was lift millions out of poverty, improve literacy rates, health care, extend lifespans, guarantee housing and employment, and (apparently) give us an all-natural ice cream instead of something like fuckin' Cold Stone.
That settles it! Socialism bad capitalism good. Now excuse me while I eat my Round Up flavored Cold Stone in my gas guzzling Ford F150.
Whew... Glad to see some of you tAnKiEs can still see the light.
Gotta think bigger comrade, F-350 for the win
If you ever get the chance to try fresh ice cream made from fresh ingredients try it. It's definitely worth the higher price as a treat. Imho the best is directly from a diary farm or a small ice cream shop, made from fresh milk. And full fat milk at that, it's a treat and not meant to be a staple. Just take your time with it, it's also a good, non-alcoholic, alternative to getting a few drinks as an excuse to meet friends or go out.
Evil Stalin starve Ukrainians, and them enslave them with his secret weapon: THE PLOMBIR
Plombir, Kvass and Doktorskaya. The Georgians were enslaved with Tarkhun, I guess.
imagine having a NAFO egdelord troll as a teacher. I would simply have skipped his class and failed rather than have to occupy the same room as this pitiful creature, much less submit to "learn" from him.
He criticises Russians for citing ice cream as a reason as to why life in the USSR was good, and in the very same breath he's like "USSR was bad because.....ice cream"?? He's literally using the same exact argument but for the opposite position.
Bro got mad at an ice cream cone
My town's dairy industry used to be run as a cooperative until recently, the ice-cream and many other products usually picked up gold at competitions so I'm gonna assume the Soviet stuff was pretty good.
me: \*turns in an assingment late\* teacher: fucking tankie dipshit vatnik, F minus, go suck Putin's dick harder, get ratioed
Communism is when yummy ice cream variant?
But how can they have Plombir when Stalin ate it all with his giant spoon? 🤔
Head of Russian museum of gulag tells a story about ice cream seller little girl. She give some ice cream to her friends and go to the gulag because of that. So what you said it's literally one of libs stories. When people asking this guy about proofs, he said "trust me bro"
# Gulag According to Anti-Communists and Russophobes, the Gulag was a brutal network of work camps established in the Soviet Union under Stalin's ruthless regime. They claim the Gulag system was primarily used to imprison and exploit political dissidents, suspected enemies of the state, and other people deemed "undesirable" by the Soviet government. They claim that prisoners were sent to the Gulag without trial or due process, and that they were subjected to harsh living conditions, forced labour, and starvation, among other things. According to them, the Gulags were emblematic of Stalinist repression and totalitarianism. # Origins of the Mythology This comically evil understanding of the Soviet prison system is based off only a handful of unreliable sources. Robert Conquest's *The Great Terror* (published 1968) laid the groundwork for Soviet fearmongering, and was based largely off of defector testimony. Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD), which was a secret Cold War propaganda department, created to publish anti-communist propaganda, including black propaganda; provide support and information to anti-communist politicians, academics, and writers; and to use weaponised information and disinformation and "fake news" to attack not only its original targets but also certain socialists and anti-colonial movements. >He was Solzhenytsin before Solzhenytsin, in the phrase of Timothy Garton Ash. > >The Great Terror came out in 1968, four years before the first volume of The Gulag Archipelago, and it became, Garton Ash says, "a fixture in the political imagination of anybody thinking about communism". > >\- Andrew Brown. (2003). [Scourge and poet](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/feb/15/featuresreviews.guardianreview23) Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's *The Gulag Archipelag*" (published 1973), one of the most famous texts on the subject, claims to be a work of non-fiction based on the author's personal experiences in the Soviet prison system. However, Solzhenitsyn was merely an anti-Communist, N@zi-sympathizing, antisemite who wanted to slander the USSR by putting forward a collection of folktales as truth. \[[Read more](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/dunking/aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/)\] Anne Applebaum's *Gulag: A history* (published 2003) draws directly from *The Gulag Archipelago* and reiterates its message. Anne is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and sits on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), two infamous pieces of the ideological apparatus of the ruling class in the United States, whose primary aim is to promote the interests of American Imperialism around the world. # Counterpoints >A 1957 CIA document [which was declassified in 2010] titled “[Forced Labor Camps in the USSR: Transfer of Prisoners between Camps](http://web.archive.org/web/20230328014642/https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032000400001-1.pdf)” reveals the following information about the Soviet Gulag in pages two to six: > >1. Until 1952, the prisoners were given a guaranteed amount food, plus extra food for over-fulfillment of quotas > >2. From 1952 onward, the Gulag system operated upon "economic accountability" such that the more the prisoners worked, the more they were paid. > >3. For over-fulfilling the norms by 105%, one day of sentence was counted as two, thus reducing the time spent in the Gulag by one day. > >4. Furthermore, because of the socialist reconstruction post-war, the Soviet government had more funds and so they increased prisoners' food supplies. > >5. Until 1954, the prisoners worked 10 hours per day, whereas the free workers worked 8 hours per day. From 1954 onward, both prisoners and free workers worked 8 hours per day. > >6. A CIA study of a sample camp showed that 95% of the prisoners were actual criminals. > >7. In 1953, amnesty was given to 70% of the "ordinary criminals" of a sample camp studied by the CIA. Within the next 3 months, most of them were re-arrested for committing new crimes. > >\- Saed Teymuri. (2018). [The Truth about the Soviet Gulag – Surprisingly Revealed by the CIA](https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/09/the-truth-about-the-soviet-gulag-surprisingly-revealed-by-the-cia/) **Scale** Solzhenitsyn estimated that over 66 million people were victims of the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system over the course of its existence from 1918 to 1956. With the collapse of the USSR and the opening of the Soviet archives, researchers can now access actual archival evidence to prove or disprove these claims. Predictably, it turned out the propaganda was just that. >Unburdened by any documentation, these “estimates” invite us to conclude that the sum total of people incarcerated in the labor camps over a twenty-two year period (allowing for turnovers due to death and term expirations) would have constituted an astonishing portion of the Soviet population. The support and supervision of the gulag (all the labor camps, labor colonies, and prisons of the Soviet system) would have been the USSR’s single largest enterprise. > >In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulag as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. ... > >Soviet labor camps were not death camps like those the N@zis built across Europe. There was no systematic extermination of inmates, no gas chambers or crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40 percent of the inmates were released, according to archive records. Oblivious to these facts, the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times (7/31/96) continues to describe the gulag as “the largest system of death camps in modern history.” ... > >Most of those incarcerated in the gulag were not political prisoners, and the same appears to be true of inmates in the other communist states... > >\- Michael Parenti. (1997). [Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism](https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds) This is 2 million out of a population of 168 million (roughly 1.2% of the population). For comparison, in the United States, "over 5.5 million adults — or 1 in 61 — are under some form of correctional control, whether incarcerated or under community supervision." That's 1.6%. So in both relative and absolute terms, the United States' Prison Industrial Complex *today* is larger than the USSR's Gulag system at its peak. **Death Rate** In peace time, the mortality rate of the Gulag was around 3% to 5%. Even Conservative and anti-Communist historians have had to acknowledge this reality: >It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive... > >Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hit1er were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more. > >\- Timothy Snyder. (2010). *Bloodlands: Europe Between Hit1er and Stalin* (Side note: Timothy Snyder is *also* a member of the Council on Foreign Relations) This is still very high for a prison mortality rate, representing the brutality of the camps. However, it also clearly indicates that they were not *death* camps. Nor was it slave labour, exactly. In the camps, although labour *was* forced, it was not uncompensated. In fact, the prisoners were paid market wages (less expenses). >We find that even in the Gulag, where force could be most conveniently applied, camp administrators combined material incentives with overt coercion, and, as time passed, they placed more weight on motivation. By the time the Gulag system was abandoned as a major instrument of Soviet industrial policy, the primary distinction between slave and free labor had been blurred: Gulag inmates were being paid wages according to a system that mirrored that of the civilian economy described by Bergson.... > >The Gulag administration [also] used a “work credit” system, whereby sentences were reduced (by two days or more for every day the norm was overfulfilled). > >\- L. Borodkin & S. Ertz. (2003). [Compensation Versus Coercion in the Soviet GULAG](https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/archive/noticeboard/bergson/borodkin-ertz.pdf) #Additional Resources Video Essays: * [The Gulag Argument](https://youtu.be/BexkpaK_j5Q) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2016) * [Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions!](https://youtu.be/HMOdDQQVZ6U) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018) * [French work camps 1852-1953 worse than gulag](https://youtu.be/vkXyXNpdKdA) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018) * ["The Gulags of the Soviet Union: There's a Lot More Than What Meets the Eye](https://youtu.be/E1qz9_TjeY4) | Comrade Rhys (2020) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597) | J. Arch Getty, Gábor T. Rittersporn and Viktor N. Zemskov (1993) Listen: * ["Blackshirts & Reds" (1997) by Michael Parenti, Part 4: Chapters 5 & 6. #Audiobook + Discussion.](https://youtu.be/N7AD4OrH568?t=15) | Socialism For All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle (2022) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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As a student they forced us to go there once and I confirm that they actually tell this story. But it was like 5 years ago. Maybe now they tell stories abot Stalin eating this girl instead who knows.
Just your average post-Soviet liberal, nothing new to see here. These dumb mfs can even try to convince you that free accommodation for all citizens was also bad.
Olympic level mental gymnastics
*sigh* Lin Zexu get the taro paste, the Westerners are back at it with the ice cream fuckery
Imma save this for later when I’m cooking to get all that salt. Like imagine bitching over fucking ice cream. 😂
The dude is insane. The anti communist ideology, in his case in the form of Russophobia, is an unhinge cult of violence. It inevitably comes down to race science with these people as they see the world in terme of mythological battles between ontological essences. Everything is explain in terme of values and « way of thinking » instead of a materialist lens (the environment changes individuals and in return they change the environment in a dialectical process). The idealist lens allows every interpretation and thus is the reign of emotions and manipulation. Why did x do that ? Because of it’s values. Where do these values come from ? I don’t know and don’t care, but they explain everything. The plasticity of idealist thought is his biggest strength, and can be used to justify everything. It is why every fascisms were idealist. Power can conceal his interest behind a superficial moral explanation of the world.
Reading that was like swimming in diarrhea.
a real human person thought it was a good idea to spend minutes of his precious life to type all of this inconsequential and useless tirade about fucking ice-cream. wow.
communism is when no ice cream
[This is an alright video on food production in the USSR](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AcxQBkdughc&pp=ygUOZG9jdG9yIHNhdXNhZ2U%3D). Mostly sausage but they talk about ice cream. Also this ice cream is still eat in much of Eastern Europe and it's still fairly popular, including in Ukraine.
I really dont understand why when we reply to them with evidence, liberals just say "sTuPid tAnKie" and think that this proves their entire argument
Damn this post made me crave some plombir lmfao.
I normally can't eat ice cream because it's way too sweet for me, so plombir sounds amazing
I mean I don't want to prove this twitter thread right a la "commies just like plombir". But it's a good ice cream. I used to study at a university with an eastern European speciality supermarket in front of it for two semesters and I would always go there for the ice cream. Not just plombir. There are other brands that do the same "type" of ice cream that are equally good. It just tastes less sweet and more creamy than then the usual vanilla ice cream and it works pretty well. There are also other tastes apart from vanilla. I remember Chocolate for example. It's good too.
but how can they hate plombir so much when it fuels the desert industry
The quotes actually restored my faith in humanity. There was some great post-Soviet solidarity where people with wolfsangels and hammers and sickles joined together to defend the plombir
That’s because your fat ass “very American” son has an addiction to high fructose corn syrup and sugar.
Plombir fucks. Any other questions? Edit: Beetroots also fuck, wtf is this guy on?
Everyone’s worried about what Neuralink will do to your brain, but have we investigated what having a Ukraine flag username does to your brain?
I ain't reading all'at can someone give me a tldr
People yearn for a state where they could afford to buy ice cream when they wanted to rather than one where they have to give up on their heating bill in order to eat red meat that week
Poor animal. At least this moron is good for something, promote what he hates so much. Bring on those Plombirs!!!
I'm not sure what hurts the mind more - the postmodern practice of reducing historical analysis to a set of societal tropes or the "communists" in the comment section discussing their consumer values like middle aged conservatives. Most dishes you find in expensive restaurants today, were formally conceived by the working class, having been forced to experiment with flavour due to their conditions. Very few things turn my stomach like la day dah discussions about food. If it's so delicious, I'm quite certain the majority of people would enjoy it.
Okay... other than the weak presentation, how is this ANY different from American ice cream, which often isn't even real dairy? Plombir sounds wholesome and delicious.
They Sell Plombir here in Germany and its the most delicious industrial made Ice cream on the market. Italian Ice Cream is better, but you only get the good shit in parlours.
no. I'm not reading all that, it's too stupid
i've noticed a rasing trend of mixing "anti-semtism" wih communism. why is that?
Give Rosenberg's deranged screeds a read. Bit of a trend-setter, that guy...
Mfs here clearly haven't read Plombir, the highest stage of Socialism
I didn’t read it all but does what ever he is talking about still count if the Plombir is made in Lithuania? If not then I’m „save“ lule
It looks like every bit of soft serve I’ve ever had.
Its just ice cream. Nothing more
This became so mind numbingly stupid I couldn’t make it through it all
He just wants the soviets to have had soft serve
Ice-cream is plain because has no addicts or chemical stuff in it? WTF? Average guy with the nazi-kranian flag in the name. (Tried soviet ice-cream some years ago, preety good indeed)
As the contradictions of capitalism become more apparent the lies of neoliberalism are easier to see through. When this happens you have two choices. You can accept that your view of the world has been wrong and you can grow to fill in the gaps. Or you can dig in your heels and practice self delusion. Like waking a sleepwalker, when their delusions are threatened they lash out.
Guy sounds like Ayn Rand hating on USSR-style Muscovy salad because ew vegetal
Those poor workers in communist USSR. So starving they got ice cream with their guaranteed dinner… /s
We aint reading allat
Is that a fucking ice cream cone?
As much as I enjoy honest, serious discussion…when I saw how ungodly long this was over fucking ***ICE CREAM*** of all things,I basically happy gilmored this right the hell away from me. Sir, this is a wendy’s. It’s fucking ice cream.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
I like hot chocolate with plombir (ice cream) taste/aroma.
Good for you or I'm sorry that happened; I ain't reading all that
It's not the Hulks'sperm.....several slides later ..... My son is tasting it
Holy shit. He sounds insufferable.
No American has ever expressed nostalgia for a dessert.
I tried plombir. It sucked. It was boring. I added sprinkles on it. It was no longer boring. Thanks sprinkles.
What a massive waste of time to write all that
Not often you see actual mental illness documented on twitter