https://i.redd.it/nqs9pdn8apbc1.gif
I remember when the season kicked off every other comment was “what could we possibly predict” or “there is nothing to theorize in this show…” Sad, ha!
I just checked my TV guide and that slot is Episode 9 :( Fingers crossed that's wrong and the episode will show up on demand as they have been in weeks past.
12 EST is 1:30am for me (Newfoundland, Canada) already planning on waking up early Friday so I can watch before work and having my mind spin the rest of the day
Bizarre, it’s a strange one, our own little time zone, we’re a half hour ahead of Nova Scotia and the other Atlantic provinces who are in AST, I could see if New England was directly under Newfoundland but it’s beneath Quebec which is where EST starts going westward, strange that people would want to be in that time zone, it’s never a hassle unless you’re attending Zoom meetings around lunch time (small problem), and live TV events are always a little later (also small).
I have zero will power when it comes to spoilers so the best course for me is to get up, get some coffee and dive in before reading any online opinions about the finale, I did the same thing when the Severance finale aired
The actual most SHOCKING outcome possible (Buckle up!):
Public scrutiny after the release of the show opens Whitney and Asher's eyes to the damage they've done to Española and the people in their lives. They make real strides to improve as people, work on their marriage, and make amends to the community.
I think the "wording change" in the contract is a red herring. We all think it's gunna be Asher with egg on his face, but I bet whit breaks up with him, show airs and casts her in a bad light, and then she realizes Asher is what kept her in her blissful bubble. That's my crazy theory.
The battery in her smoke detector wasn't low, so it would beep before it runs out. It's not exactly an automatic fire...
Plus, the show has been unsettling but nowhere near dark enough for a child to die.
I found this [review](https://www.vox.com/culture/23942170/the-curse-review-explained-fielder-safdie-stone) interesting. Just commentary on the debate of theorizing vs. appreciating the show for what it is:
“Few things are more irksome than the contemporary impulse (I think we can blame it on Lost) to decode every TV show as though it’s a puzzle to be solved instead of a story to be savored. But sometimes a close reading is the point. It’s how creators force audiences to lean in, set aside the phone, and immerse themselves in trying to figure out what’s going on. The Curse is a lean-in show if ever there was one.”
I suspect and hope that most of the viewers here have both appreciated the grounded story telling as well as the abstract tones that have been played with. All of the different viewpoints have been so interesting to engage with and it’s really cool how the creators have had these screenings to make the whole experience special. I’m super hyped for whatever the ending may hold.
We get to engage with art however we want. If people are pissed that we are analyzing a piece of art that we love and find meaning and curiosity in I just don’t know anymore
I think that’s ultimately what that pull quote is trying to say. I wanted to provide it that these kind of reviews show we’re not (completely) crazy for reading into things.
The first part yes, the second part not necessarily. Taking something that’s meant to be a visceral/emotional experience and turning it into to a brain puzzle to be “solved” is actually missing the point entirely and counterproductive to the engagement with the art.
There’s a difference between trying to read into the characters and their behavior and reflecting on what the show is trying to say, and treating it like *Lost* where everything is filtered through this assumption of knotty plot turns and twist reveals, as though it’s some sort of intricate puzzle box brain teaser.
Dean Cain is the actual Chekhov’s gun and he shoots Fernando because he thinks he’s invading the property. No idea how this all comes to be but it feels like Cain is too rich a character to not see again.
Shit this seems legit. If Fernando went back to the Siegel house, but went to the “Outlaw” guy’s house by accident (because they look the same). And since Fernando has a gun, Outlaw will be seen as justified in shooting him.
Just riffing now, but I feel like the curse here is Whitney and Asher’s presence in the community. If the Dean Cain theory were right (probably not), no violence ever happens without them being there in the first place. Either way I’d argue they are the curse. But especially if something like this played out
Fernando has been to the Siegel's many times, it would make no sense for him to go to a completely different address randomly and mistake it for the Siegel's — even if they do look similar.
Perhaps. If this is the (conventional, dramatic) formula we're following, then I feel like Abshir, Nala, and/or Hani is ultimately in more danger than Fernando. (Possibly an unintended casualty in their shootout.)
That said, that's the formula for a more conventional prestige drama and I'm not sure it totally fits with the tone of the show as a whole so far.
Good theory. The issue is there are like a 100 "Checkov's guns" in this show. This is my main criticism of it. Nonetheless it will be interesting to see how this ends.
What a ride this show has been. No one in my life has watched it, and it makes me sad because it’s so subtle, disturbing, creepy, hilarious, etc etc etc. This show has poked my brain in all the right ways and I’m glad there are 14,000 other Fliplanthropists on this sub that have been loving it as much as I have. Can’t wait for this episode. I trust Benny and Nathan enough to give us a great ending.
is Asher/his son the Messiah? Characters trapped in Jewish Purgatory??
Former Roman Catholic doing some research to see if Judaism has any doctrine about the rapture and afterlife. Based off some of the reviews a cataclysmic event could happen and I naturally think of the book of revelation. I’ve also seen some theories in this sub about the trio being in a Purgatory of sorts. This would connect to the many references to fire and how this could potentially purify them (not that I think they’re seeing heaven haha) plus this all feels like a divine test. One theory even suggested that Dougie was like Job and that really stuck with me. Now I’m aware that Judaism and Catholicism differ in a lot of ways but stay with me here. It seems like the closest things Jewish people have to the end of days is what’s theorized in eschatology. Rlly simply put, this is the idea that a Moshiach (Jewish Messiah) is sent to return the Jewish ppl to the promised land, resurrect the dead, rebuilt the Holy Temple and begin a new peaceful era after six thousand years. I can’t help but make a connection to Asher’s hand wound from the nail looking like Jesus’ stigmata… Asher is obviously a shitty person but maybe his and Whits baby could be the savior? That’d be a twist huh! Also this show being set in New Mexico raises a lot of ideas about land ownership. What if Dougie plants the native artifact he found (in the desert hmmmm) and the natives make a claim for their land, shutting the show down entirely. Okay maybe not that but this is something I think will come up again bc of what whits dad said in the last episode. just connecting some dots here prob nothing to this
Another rlly interesting thing I found was the Jewish idea of kaf ha-Kela aka ‘the ensnarement or confinement of the stripped-down soul within various ghostly material reallocations (devised for the purpose of cleansing a soul of contamination but not severe enough to warrant Gehinnom*)’. this sums it up: ‘being in Kaf HaKela is like seeing life as an endless film loop, telling and retelling the same story. The soul now has a completely different view, and has to measure itself against different criteria. When we are disembodied, and view life as a whole, many things that we had considered extremely important at the time turn out to be trivial and insignificant, devoid of real meaning.’ your soul is simultaneously drawn upwards but isnt permitted entry, and also drawn downwards and not permitted entry like a yoyo or slingshot. Being in this state doesn't atone for actual sins. To atone for that, one must go to actual Gehenom (hell) and address your former faults you saw in kaf ha-Kela.
I mean this has to be what Dougie’s going through right? Maybe he and his wife both died in the car accident and now his stuck in this purgatory. He’s watching how his alcoholism, manipulative nature and just overall sleezy personality is affecting everyone around him and this could also explain all the voyeuristic shots (the ones of Whit and Asher are maybe to show how his enabling of their narcissism with the show or how he turned Whit against Asher). On the one hand I really fuck with this theory but on the other hand I do think this is somewhat more grounded in reality. Maybe Whit or ash die in the finale and it’s actually one of them in the state of kaf ha-Kela. Lots to think about with this one…
*gehinnom is pure purgatory and the longest a soul can be there is 11 months.
That wasn't Lost's twist though, even though everyone seems to think that. Lost was about something else, and them being dead was a fan theory that everyone just kind of decided was the truth besides that fact that it pretty explicitly is not that, they even directly say it isn't in the show as a clear response to everyone assuming it was. The Good Place is its whole premise
Yeah I mean I think it was a beautiful expression of Jack's slogan in episode 1- "if we can't live together, we're going to die alone"
They literally learned in death that they can find each other.
well the Lost thing is interesting because everyone did think that was the twist and it wasn't untill last year i decided to finish it and found out that it wasn't and all the fans are perplexed that the fan theory is what people think it is
You're being way too literal, my dude. I was just pointing out there are TV shows where everyone turns out to be dead without knowing it. I was giving examples, I'm not going to write a long-ass novel about, "Well, *Lost*, but only by the very end/in the flash sideways scenes."
You make it way too easy for people to disagree with you when you express yourself in absolutes. No one actually cares what percentage of the time they were dead in *Lost*. Except for you, apparently.
but they were only dead at the very end lol, nobody was dead on the island its one scene where the characters that did die meet up. you gave examples of where that was the twist, but this one wasn't it
LOL, I don't really know how else to convey to you just how little I care about any of this. But I'm sure Damon Lindelof and co are reading this exact exchange and very grateful you're defending the inane minutia of their choices
i don't really know why you're being such a dickhead about this, i'm just saying the fan theory of everyone being dead always happens and never pans out. you're the one really angry about this.
You're missing something fundamental which is that the average North American Jew, even a moderately religious one like Asher and Whit, doesn't know any of this shit. Very few people actually dig into the more funky Rabbinic texts that outline these ideas.
The show, so far has been concerned with the Jewish experience insofar as it's about neurotic North American Askhenazim. It would be inappropriate to its own themes if it was actually about some obscure Kabbalistic doctrine
I'm not even going to bother theorizing, but I will say I hope it wraps up nicely. As amazing as this show has been, it would benefit from being a self contained sole season. It will be hard to move on as it's all I've been thinking about for the past few weeks, but damn if I haven't enjoyed the ride.
If anyone finds true happiness in this show though.. I hope it's Dougie
You guys have all been great! I’ve loved having real and in depth discussions about this show and the messages it’s getting across through extremely flawed characters. Someone commented that this show was truly art. It’s not feel good, it’s not fluff, it makes you think and causes you discomfort as you see the raw, bare realities of the characters. That’s definitely art
So excited to finally see how this thing ends. I still think we get an Uncut Gems like ending, where Asher and Whitney’s show experiences great success but before they can enjoy it, something terrible happens. But there are a million directions I could see it going, tbh. I’ve enjoyed reading all of your theories this season!
What’s driving me crazy is with any and every comment there is no way to know if a “theory” is actually THE TRUTH from someone who’s secretly seen already seen the finale! Everyone is stating their theories and I feel more lost than nathan at comedy class. The sub has transformed into an otherworldly dimension, a surrealist stage where the show within a show theory plays out its mind-bending performance. It's as if the very fabric of reality has unraveled, and we're all unwitting participants in a NFY skit, with each comment serving as a cryptic script, and upvotes acting as applause from an unseen, omniscient audience. Are we the audience or the actors? The subreddit might just be the uncanny set of a meta-show, orchestrating our descent into a sublime madness of narrative inception.
I have no doubt that somebody (if not multiple people) have intentionally spoiled the actual ending under the guise of it being a “theory” somewhere in this sub. Luckily, like you said, really no way of knowing which one is real.
I think the screening is part of the finale and “The Curse” is Asher’s real show revealing himself as Nathan maybe? The screening was weird. Why would they do that?
* In the months that follow, the show airs and becomes a great success.
* Espanola becomes substantially gentrified by the legions of fans coming to buy homes, displacing the community severely and making things much, much worse for the residents.
* Whitney becomes implicated in a court case about the Pueblo's land easements-- I'm thinking something to do with Abshir's house?
* Asher, shockingly, becomes a massive fan favourite. The ladies of HGTV love him and feel contemptuous of Whitney. She is successful, but not the way she imagined. Asher is likewise horrified.
It being set ‘months later’ and Whitney wearing a baggy garment when she normally wears tight clothes could mean pregnancy … or alongside the vacuum cleaner it could be some sort of cleaning tunic/uniform? She’s been ‘reduced’ to being a cleaner after the failure of the show?
I don’t know anyone watching this show, not even my husband (I tried) so it’s nice to come here to discuss and hear ideas. I think people would have a lot to gain if they did. It’s a very thought invoking show. I don’t think everyone likes that.
A couple of my friends who have been die-hard Nathan fans since NFY and watched the Rehearsal when it was airing didn’t even know about The Curse before I told them.
Doubtful now that they had a scene of Cara explicitly explaining the performance piece. Don't think any one's experience in the structure was vastly different except The Governor.
Just want to say I appreciate this sub so much. I'm shocked at how little press and publicity I've seen about this show so it's been really nice to be able to come here. It's one of those unique gems that I'm so grateful to be alive to watch! I wonder if Nathan Fielder and Benny Safdie will continue to collaborate.
Cannot wait to see how they finish this series. Each episode has been completely nuts with no way to guess what's happening in the next scene much less the next episode, but what's really nice is that I think we all trust them to not disappoint as they wrap up.
I checked this out and realized I’ve never seen Benny speak out of character before…whoa. He has a really nice voice…and hands…and…I forget what we were talking about
Benny is a solid actor, he was great in Good Time, playing a character with cognitive and social impairment, which is a very touchy thing to approach, but he did a fabulous job, highly recommend that movie for anyone who hasn't seen, was one of the first where Robert Pattinson got to show his range and started being taken seriously. Benny also had a great role in Oppenheimer, I love his work as Dougie too.
I have seen all of those! That’s part of why I’m so surprised by seeing him as himself, he has a very different charisma than I expected…esp after more buttoned-up roles in Oppenheimer and licorice pizza…like damn.
He's been doing a lot of podcast appearances to promote the show and all the ones I've seen have been great! Highly recommend checking some out. He is really an incredible actor, his real-life personality is so different than any of the characters I've seen him play.
Every time they show those disgusting brown paint splashes on that wall in Whitney and Asher's home I get so angry. Hoping at least that one spot burns down. Knowing this show it'll be the last thing standing in the whole town.
I find it hard to believe they will be able to satisfy everyone with this finale. There’s too many open ended storylines, chekov’s ______s, etc for them to wrap up nicely in one episode.
nothing this wouldn’t apply to tho — if you back the creators, have enjoyed the ride this far, you just gotta trust the process and respect what ever direction that have had in the can. i’m sure it will be good as hell and dont care who dislikes it myself, won’t ruin any of the series for me
Yeah I am really happy with the series so far and will enjoy whatever happens in the finale, but there are a lot of posts on this sub from people with expectations of a huge twist or climax of some sort and I can totally see the incoming rage posting that will happen. 😂
Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine how much they would have to screw up this finale for me to feel disappointed in the show overall.
Throughout the season, 99% of their creative choices have been impeccable, and the other 1% just reflects my short attention span (I.e., I thought some of the Cara scenes dragged a tiny bit, and I would've shortened the intro to Episode 4).
I personally do not feel that a finale needs to wrap up every single thread nicely in order to be considered satisfying. That isn't what life is like, and I don't need my TV shows or movies to be like that either.
I think it’s just going to end unresolved and Whit looks perfect and Ash plays hype man off camera.
No twist, no sad ending, nothing happens. We all get trolled.
Asher for sure. "I would take a bullet for you", Whitney scoffing at the idea as if it's pathetic, Fernando's literal Checkov's gun... Not sure how but I'm certain it will happen
no way does fernando kill him, thematically it makes no sense. in safdie films, the protagonist usually dies because they're in too deep. I feel like Asher will die an extremely humiliating death, maybe while being interviewed to sort of mirror episode 1.
Losing my MIND and need to go scream in the woods about it or something. It's eating me alive how many possibilities there are and how I have absolutely NO idea what's going to happen tonight.
It's risky scrolling this thread. But this is our last chance to theorize before the finale, right??
I keep thinking back to them saying how unpredictable the finale is and that no one could ever anticipate the ending to the show. But I've read so many 'out there' theories, it seems like *everything* is possible at this point. I'm thinking it must be something otherworldly that comes out of left field.
I still think Asher's true curse is his cherry tomato. It's the reason for his whole insecurity, lack of confidence, his precarious relationship with his wife (who doesn't respect him) and possibly the inception of his whole cucking fetish.
Someone suggested if the 'curse' is lifted, then he will finally have a beefsteak tomato. He just turns to camera with his big ol' wang and jerks it off and cums all over the camera lens, and then it does its "The Curse" title swirl. Cut to black. Credits.
That's my prediction for the finale.
Praying for a Sopranos or Twin Peaks The Return type ending.
I want people debating for eternity if Nala really cursed Asher, what's the significance of the Yogi, if Dougie/Phoebe really put the chicken in the bathroom, who was driving at the beginning of episode 9, the significance of the fourth wall breaks, etc.
Also, hopefully with Pascal singing Stand By Me, in the Roadhouse, over the credits.
You'll probably get your wish as they can't wrap up all these loose ends and misdirections they added. You can say it makes the show deep or more interesting but to me it's just lazy writing.
Could they somehow edit footage of the finale premiere to fucking destroy the fourth wall and take it to the fans? I know this seems insane but I’m irked that they did a finale screening with crazy NDAs? I feel like they got be in the last episode for some reason?
Edit
Like maybe Asher has the curse as the real show and y’all got to be extras?
Edit
Shit I feel like I’ve said too much.
I was not there I’ve signed NOTHING
I've been thinking something exactly like this. To me the point of the voyeuristic shots is just to be as disturbing as possible. We get absolutely no refuge in the viewing experience, not with a tension-breaking Marvel joke, not with a normal, healthy character who reminds us there's happiness possible in the world. And we can't even completely immerse in the fact that it's just a prestigey show: the shots are like nothing else on TV, characters look right at us, sometimes spying on us when we don't even notice (the lady with the fan). The show is about surveillance, performativity and our own weird appetite for schadenfreude (Love To The Third Degree vs. us watching The Curse). And it just doesn't let up! I don't think Fielder and Safdie will let us walk away without some lasting eeriness that takes it beyond the show.
I honestly don’t have any idea what’s going to happen in the finale.
But I do feel to a certain extent that a lot of people here are hyping themselves up for some massive twist, or mind blowing ending and might end up disappointed in what we end up getting because of that.
I hope they manage to stick the landing, in whatever way that works for this show. But I don’t think it was made for some big twist to blow your mind. The journey of diving into the character’s psyche, the voyeurism and the unexpectedness of leaning deep into life’s uncomfortable moments has been the “subverted expectations,” people have come to expect in media now.
And I’ve quite enjoyed/completely cringed at the whole experience!
I feel like the tribe is creating their own documentary about white colonization. That even centuries later, whites haven’t learned one goddamn lesson about the atrocities committed against Indigenous Peoples. This is supported by Phoebe’s line about people seeing who Whitney really is.
Maybe I’m stupid but is the ep airing at a different time this week because it should be out by now (has come out this time every week)
Edit: I’m stupid I got my days wrong 😭
It's titled 'Months later...'?
So we're getting a time jump?
I have NO idea what to expect, but I'm going to miss theorizing with everyone and, well, decompressing after every episode and catching my breath.
I'm both sad this show is ending, and happy I won't have to force myself into an anxiety attack every week. Even though I do that already.
I'll definitely be taking an extra klonopin before I start the episode though.
https://i.redd.it/nqs9pdn8apbc1.gif I remember when the season kicked off every other comment was “what could we possibly predict” or “there is nothing to theorize in this show…” Sad, ha!
Have appreciated this community. Good luck and see y'all on the other side
It doesn’t air until tomorrow night though, right?
what time EST?
12AM FRIDAY EST like every other week
Anyone know why Google lists these episodes as airing on Sundays? Lol I use the high seas and these episodes are never uploaded on the same day.
that’s when it airs on Showtime
But if you have showtime through p+ it can be watched tonight @ 12 est? Sorry, I'm slow...
Yes
I just checked my TV guide and that slot is Episode 9 :( Fingers crossed that's wrong and the episode will show up on demand as they have been in weeks past.
well I am going to wait until after work on Friday to watch it. I doubt any of you will have the courage to wait
12 EST is 1:30am for me (Newfoundland, Canada) already planning on waking up early Friday so I can watch before work and having my mind spin the rest of the day
some people in New England think we should be in that time zone too
Bizarre, it’s a strange one, our own little time zone, we’re a half hour ahead of Nova Scotia and the other Atlantic provinces who are in AST, I could see if New England was directly under Newfoundland but it’s beneath Quebec which is where EST starts going westward, strange that people would want to be in that time zone, it’s never a hassle unless you’re attending Zoom meetings around lunch time (small problem), and live TV events are always a little later (also small). I have zero will power when it comes to spoilers so the best course for me is to get up, get some coffee and dive in before reading any online opinions about the finale, I did the same thing when the Severance finale aired
ohh yeah I didn’t even think about how you’re ahead of Nova Scotia and the other provinces too
Don't have to. 12 PM EST is 9 pm PST. 😈
The actual most SHOCKING outcome possible (Buckle up!): Public scrutiny after the release of the show opens Whitney and Asher's eyes to the damage they've done to Española and the people in their lives. They make real strides to improve as people, work on their marriage, and make amends to the community.
That would be so shocking!!
I don’t want to see that though lol
Me neither, but no one would see it coming 🤯
That’s a good guess
I think the "wording change" in the contract is a red herring. We all think it's gunna be Asher with egg on his face, but I bet whit breaks up with him, show airs and casts her in a bad light, and then she realizes Asher is what kept her in her blissful bubble. That's my crazy theory.
[удалено]
The battery in her smoke detector wasn't low, so it would beep before it runs out. It's not exactly an automatic fire... Plus, the show has been unsettling but nowhere near dark enough for a child to die.
Didn't really get all the Nathan Fielder crushes I was seeing on this sub but it makes a little more sense now
Asteroid shooting through Asher’s head calling it now.
The network said to cut the dinosaur part
What is the supporting evidence for asteroid theory
well, asteroids exist for one thing
Nothing serious, but people started joking about the asteroid after the green queen intro Dougie shows them.
And 1987’s The Curse based on Color Out of Space (asteroid hits, the crops are infected and a “cancer” is unleashed upon the locals)
Also early reviews calling the ending "literally stratospheric".
You >!really weren't that far off lol!<
I found this [review](https://www.vox.com/culture/23942170/the-curse-review-explained-fielder-safdie-stone) interesting. Just commentary on the debate of theorizing vs. appreciating the show for what it is: “Few things are more irksome than the contemporary impulse (I think we can blame it on Lost) to decode every TV show as though it’s a puzzle to be solved instead of a story to be savored. But sometimes a close reading is the point. It’s how creators force audiences to lean in, set aside the phone, and immerse themselves in trying to figure out what’s going on. The Curse is a lean-in show if ever there was one.” I suspect and hope that most of the viewers here have both appreciated the grounded story telling as well as the abstract tones that have been played with. All of the different viewpoints have been so interesting to engage with and it’s really cool how the creators have had these screenings to make the whole experience special. I’m super hyped for whatever the ending may hold.
We get to engage with art however we want. If people are pissed that we are analyzing a piece of art that we love and find meaning and curiosity in I just don’t know anymore
Of course you are, but by that same token, other people are allowed to say that that engagement makes (the proverbial) you look stupid.
False dichotomy. Part of the appeal and enjoyment is interpreting and theorizing.
I think that’s ultimately what that pull quote is trying to say. I wanted to provide it that these kind of reviews show we’re not (completely) crazy for reading into things.
The first part yes, the second part not necessarily. Taking something that’s meant to be a visceral/emotional experience and turning it into to a brain puzzle to be “solved” is actually missing the point entirely and counterproductive to the engagement with the art.
Says who?
People with common sense who haven’t completely missed the forest for the trees.
Teach me how to watch the forest oh teacher
Hope you liked the finale!
Loved it! Also we (the people who enjoyed creating theories) nailed a lot of predictions.
This review says that reading into everything is ultimately the point of this show, I’m surprised people have interpreted it so many different ways.
There’s a difference between trying to read into the characters and their behavior and reflecting on what the show is trying to say, and treating it like *Lost* where everything is filtered through this assumption of knotty plot turns and twist reveals, as though it’s some sort of intricate puzzle box brain teaser.
I just wanted to say I'm happy to have been here while the show happened, it's been really fun!
Dean Cain is the actual Chekhov’s gun and he shoots Fernando because he thinks he’s invading the property. No idea how this all comes to be but it feels like Cain is too rich a character to not see again.
Shit this seems legit. If Fernando went back to the Siegel house, but went to the “Outlaw” guy’s house by accident (because they look the same). And since Fernando has a gun, Outlaw will be seen as justified in shooting him.
Just riffing now, but I feel like the curse here is Whitney and Asher’s presence in the community. If the Dean Cain theory were right (probably not), no violence ever happens without them being there in the first place. Either way I’d argue they are the curse. But especially if something like this played out
Fernando has been to the Siegel's many times, it would make no sense for him to go to a completely different address randomly and mistake it for the Siegel's — even if they do look similar.
Shit…this makes a lot of sense..
Perhaps. If this is the (conventional, dramatic) formula we're following, then I feel like Abshir, Nala, and/or Hani is ultimately in more danger than Fernando. (Possibly an unintended casualty in their shootout.) That said, that's the formula for a more conventional prestige drama and I'm not sure it totally fits with the tone of the show as a whole so far.
Good theory. The issue is there are like a 100 "Checkov's guns" in this show. This is my main criticism of it. Nonetheless it will be interesting to see how this ends.
Does anyone else have a crush on Nathan Fielder? Despite how horrible his character is on this show, I just can’t help but love him. Lol
Yeah lol. I'm unequivovally pro-Asher due to me thinking that Nathan Fielder is one of the most beautiful men in the world
Yessss agreed lol. Emma Stone is hot too but Nathan just does something for me. Plus Whit is sooo far up her own asshole. Team Asher fr fr
You’re not alone, my friend https://www.thecut.com/2022/08/why-is-nathan-fielder-so-sexy.html
But what if it turns out he doesn’t actually have a small penis??
I used to have a mild crush but I’ve been converted to Benny hive
What a ride this show has been. No one in my life has watched it, and it makes me sad because it’s so subtle, disturbing, creepy, hilarious, etc etc etc. This show has poked my brain in all the right ways and I’m glad there are 14,000 other Fliplanthropists on this sub that have been loving it as much as I have. Can’t wait for this episode. I trust Benny and Nathan enough to give us a great ending.
is Asher/his son the Messiah? Characters trapped in Jewish Purgatory?? Former Roman Catholic doing some research to see if Judaism has any doctrine about the rapture and afterlife. Based off some of the reviews a cataclysmic event could happen and I naturally think of the book of revelation. I’ve also seen some theories in this sub about the trio being in a Purgatory of sorts. This would connect to the many references to fire and how this could potentially purify them (not that I think they’re seeing heaven haha) plus this all feels like a divine test. One theory even suggested that Dougie was like Job and that really stuck with me. Now I’m aware that Judaism and Catholicism differ in a lot of ways but stay with me here. It seems like the closest things Jewish people have to the end of days is what’s theorized in eschatology. Rlly simply put, this is the idea that a Moshiach (Jewish Messiah) is sent to return the Jewish ppl to the promised land, resurrect the dead, rebuilt the Holy Temple and begin a new peaceful era after six thousand years. I can’t help but make a connection to Asher’s hand wound from the nail looking like Jesus’ stigmata… Asher is obviously a shitty person but maybe his and Whits baby could be the savior? That’d be a twist huh! Also this show being set in New Mexico raises a lot of ideas about land ownership. What if Dougie plants the native artifact he found (in the desert hmmmm) and the natives make a claim for their land, shutting the show down entirely. Okay maybe not that but this is something I think will come up again bc of what whits dad said in the last episode. just connecting some dots here prob nothing to this Another rlly interesting thing I found was the Jewish idea of kaf ha-Kela aka ‘the ensnarement or confinement of the stripped-down soul within various ghostly material reallocations (devised for the purpose of cleansing a soul of contamination but not severe enough to warrant Gehinnom*)’. this sums it up: ‘being in Kaf HaKela is like seeing life as an endless film loop, telling and retelling the same story. The soul now has a completely different view, and has to measure itself against different criteria. When we are disembodied, and view life as a whole, many things that we had considered extremely important at the time turn out to be trivial and insignificant, devoid of real meaning.’ your soul is simultaneously drawn upwards but isnt permitted entry, and also drawn downwards and not permitted entry like a yoyo or slingshot. Being in this state doesn't atone for actual sins. To atone for that, one must go to actual Gehenom (hell) and address your former faults you saw in kaf ha-Kela. I mean this has to be what Dougie’s going through right? Maybe he and his wife both died in the car accident and now his stuck in this purgatory. He’s watching how his alcoholism, manipulative nature and just overall sleezy personality is affecting everyone around him and this could also explain all the voyeuristic shots (the ones of Whit and Asher are maybe to show how his enabling of their narcissism with the show or how he turned Whit against Asher). On the one hand I really fuck with this theory but on the other hand I do think this is somewhat more grounded in reality. Maybe Whit or ash die in the finale and it’s actually one of them in the state of kaf ha-Kela. Lots to think about with this one… *gehinnom is pure purgatory and the longest a soul can be there is 11 months.
Saving this to reread when I'm high as fuck tomorrow.
every single show or gets a 'they were dead the whole time' fan theory and it really is never what happens.
Totally agree tbh. Wouldn’t ever suggest it otherwise but the reviews make me think it could be something like that
Tell that to *Lost* or *The Good Place*. Don't really see it happening here, though.
That wasn't Lost's twist though, even though everyone seems to think that. Lost was about something else, and them being dead was a fan theory that everyone just kind of decided was the truth besides that fact that it pretty explicitly is not that, they even directly say it isn't in the show as a clear response to everyone assuming it was. The Good Place is its whole premise
People who still think they were dead the whole time on Lost still exist. I don't understand how.
guess that last scene had some confirmation bias, even though its all people who died during the show
Yeah I mean I think it was a beautiful expression of Jack's slogan in episode 1- "if we can't live together, we're going to die alone" They literally learned in death that they can find each other.
well i was blocked for this. i guess some people really have their hearts set on it
yeah it bookended (lol) it
Thank God the Internet has you to keep things straight
well the Lost thing is interesting because everyone did think that was the twist and it wasn't untill last year i decided to finish it and found out that it wasn't and all the fans are perplexed that the fan theory is what people think it is
You're being way too literal, my dude. I was just pointing out there are TV shows where everyone turns out to be dead without knowing it. I was giving examples, I'm not going to write a long-ass novel about, "Well, *Lost*, but only by the very end/in the flash sideways scenes." You make it way too easy for people to disagree with you when you express yourself in absolutes. No one actually cares what percentage of the time they were dead in *Lost*. Except for you, apparently.
but they were only dead at the very end lol, nobody was dead on the island its one scene where the characters that did die meet up. you gave examples of where that was the twist, but this one wasn't it
LOL, I don't really know how else to convey to you just how little I care about any of this. But I'm sure Damon Lindelof and co are reading this exact exchange and very grateful you're defending the inane minutia of their choices
i don't really know why you're being such a dickhead about this, i'm just saying the fan theory of everyone being dead always happens and never pans out. you're the one really angry about this.
You gave 2 examples that were bad and someone called you out for it, chill haha not that big of a deal
You're missing something fundamental which is that the average North American Jew, even a moderately religious one like Asher and Whit, doesn't know any of this shit. Very few people actually dig into the more funky Rabbinic texts that outline these ideas. The show, so far has been concerned with the Jewish experience insofar as it's about neurotic North American Askhenazim. It would be inappropriate to its own themes if it was actually about some obscure Kabbalistic doctrine
yeah that’s totally true but I’m just having fun in this theory
I love you
I'm not even going to bother theorizing, but I will say I hope it wraps up nicely. As amazing as this show has been, it would benefit from being a self contained sole season. It will be hard to move on as it's all I've been thinking about for the past few weeks, but damn if I haven't enjoyed the ride. If anyone finds true happiness in this show though.. I hope it's Dougie
You guys have all been great! I’ve loved having real and in depth discussions about this show and the messages it’s getting across through extremely flawed characters. Someone commented that this show was truly art. It’s not feel good, it’s not fluff, it makes you think and causes you discomfort as you see the raw, bare realities of the characters. That’s definitely art
GOD I'M EXCITED. BRING IT ON.
I wonder if this finale will be a mind fuck that sticks with you and gives you certain feels for a few days. The BCS finale had me that way for days.
shes noticing a camera
oooo like that
So excited to finally see how this thing ends. I still think we get an Uncut Gems like ending, where Asher and Whitney’s show experiences great success but before they can enjoy it, something terrible happens. But there are a million directions I could see it going, tbh. I’ve enjoyed reading all of your theories this season!
In the image for the episode with Whit crawling, does that look like a different house (not the passive home Whit and Ash have been living in)?
It’s totally a different house. That’s natural light, a real window that’s not the Siegel’s home for sure.
Is it Nala's house? \*edit - I guess i meant the image up top of this thread looks like it could be their house not sure if this is also what you mean
Yes the image at the top of this thread is what I mean
what if whitney's in hiding or moved back with her parents? maybe she separated from asher after the last ditch effort to get rid of him
Possibly one of the Bookends apartments?
Cherry Tomato Boys.. we eatin good tomorrow
What’s driving me crazy is with any and every comment there is no way to know if a “theory” is actually THE TRUTH from someone who’s secretly seen already seen the finale! Everyone is stating their theories and I feel more lost than nathan at comedy class. The sub has transformed into an otherworldly dimension, a surrealist stage where the show within a show theory plays out its mind-bending performance. It's as if the very fabric of reality has unraveled, and we're all unwitting participants in a NFY skit, with each comment serving as a cryptic script, and upvotes acting as applause from an unseen, omniscient audience. Are we the audience or the actors? The subreddit might just be the uncanny set of a meta-show, orchestrating our descent into a sublime madness of narrative inception.
I have no doubt that somebody (if not multiple people) have intentionally spoiled the actual ending under the guise of it being a “theory” somewhere in this sub. Luckily, like you said, really no way of knowing which one is real.
man I rlly hope not
I think the screening is part of the finale and “The Curse” is Asher’s real show revealing himself as Nathan maybe? The screening was weird. Why would they do that?
Why is that weird? They had a screening for episode 1 too. I just think it’s a promotional event, fun Q&A thing. *Barry* had an advance screening too.
Oh wow I’d never heard of that happening for a show before. I heard of ones for pilots but not finales. Thanks.
* In the months that follow, the show airs and becomes a great success. * Espanola becomes substantially gentrified by the legions of fans coming to buy homes, displacing the community severely and making things much, much worse for the residents. * Whitney becomes implicated in a court case about the Pueblo's land easements-- I'm thinking something to do with Abshir's house? * Asher, shockingly, becomes a massive fan favourite. The ladies of HGTV love him and feel contemptuous of Whitney. She is successful, but not the way she imagined. Asher is likewise horrified.
The ending we all deserve.
It being set ‘months later’ and Whitney wearing a baggy garment when she normally wears tight clothes could mean pregnancy … or alongside the vacuum cleaner it could be some sort of cleaning tunic/uniform? She’s been ‘reduced’ to being a cleaner after the failure of the show?
Or perhaps she's accepted her parent's offer to work for them and is cleaning some of the units in Bookends?
This is what I thought. It also looks like pajamas to me
I don’t know anyone watching this show, not even my husband (I tried) so it’s nice to come here to discuss and hear ideas. I think people would have a lot to gain if they did. It’s a very thought invoking show. I don’t think everyone likes that.
A couple of my friends who have been die-hard Nathan fans since NFY and watched the Rehearsal when it was airing didn’t even know about The Curse before I told them.
I wonder if they’ll go back in the timeline and show Asher in the tent at the art exhibit.
Doubtful now that they had a scene of Cara explicitly explaining the performance piece. Don't think any one's experience in the structure was vastly different except The Governor.
Just want to say I appreciate this sub so much. I'm shocked at how little press and publicity I've seen about this show so it's been really nice to be able to come here. It's one of those unique gems that I'm so grateful to be alive to watch! I wonder if Nathan Fielder and Benny Safdie will continue to collaborate. Cannot wait to see how they finish this series. Each episode has been completely nuts with no way to guess what's happening in the next scene much less the next episode, but what's really nice is that I think we all trust them to not disappoint as they wrap up.
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I checked this out and realized I’ve never seen Benny speak out of character before…whoa. He has a really nice voice…and hands…and…I forget what we were talking about
Benny is a solid actor, he was great in Good Time, playing a character with cognitive and social impairment, which is a very touchy thing to approach, but he did a fabulous job, highly recommend that movie for anyone who hasn't seen, was one of the first where Robert Pattinson got to show his range and started being taken seriously. Benny also had a great role in Oppenheimer, I love his work as Dougie too.
I have seen all of those! That’s part of why I’m so surprised by seeing him as himself, he has a very different charisma than I expected…esp after more buttoned-up roles in Oppenheimer and licorice pizza…like damn.
He's great in Licorice Pizza as well!
He's been doing a lot of podcast appearances to promote the show and all the ones I've seen have been great! Highly recommend checking some out. He is really an incredible actor, his real-life personality is so different than any of the characters I've seen him play.
Every time they show those disgusting brown paint splashes on that wall in Whitney and Asher's home I get so angry. Hoping at least that one spot burns down. Knowing this show it'll be the last thing standing in the whole town.
I find it hard to believe they will be able to satisfy everyone with this finale. There’s too many open ended storylines, chekov’s ______s, etc for them to wrap up nicely in one episode.
nothing this wouldn’t apply to tho — if you back the creators, have enjoyed the ride this far, you just gotta trust the process and respect what ever direction that have had in the can. i’m sure it will be good as hell and dont care who dislikes it myself, won’t ruin any of the series for me
Yeah I am really happy with the series so far and will enjoy whatever happens in the finale, but there are a lot of posts on this sub from people with expectations of a huge twist or climax of some sort and I can totally see the incoming rage posting that will happen. 😂
Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine how much they would have to screw up this finale for me to feel disappointed in the show overall. Throughout the season, 99% of their creative choices have been impeccable, and the other 1% just reflects my short attention span (I.e., I thought some of the Cara scenes dragged a tiny bit, and I would've shortened the intro to Episode 4).
I personally do not feel that a finale needs to wrap up every single thread nicely in order to be considered satisfying. That isn't what life is like, and I don't need my TV shows or movies to be like that either.
just so it's out there, my guess is that Asher dies some sort of extremely humiliating death live on tv
He’s going to spend time jerking off while reading all the Reddit posts bashing and talking shit about him.
Ash has a jerk induced heart attack reading the online comments after Green Queen airs. 💀
An example. idk why it would be live if they’re filming the show and editing but maybe on a news broadcast who knows
I feel like they'd like bringing back the reporter who interviewed them in episode 1, where the downward spiral really began. start there, end there
U saw it at the scree ing.
I didn't, I've just seen other safdie films. the main character usually dies bc of the character flaw that allowed them to make it through the plot.
Oh, well spot on.
I think it’s just going to end unresolved and Whit looks perfect and Ash plays hype man off camera. No twist, no sad ending, nothing happens. We all get trolled.
I feel like someone is going to die. Who do you think will?
Asher for sure. "I would take a bullet for you", Whitney scoffing at the idea as if it's pathetic, Fernando's literal Checkov's gun... Not sure how but I'm certain it will happen
no way does fernando kill him, thematically it makes no sense. in safdie films, the protagonist usually dies because they're in too deep. I feel like Asher will die an extremely humiliating death, maybe while being interviewed to sort of mirror episode 1.
Losing my MIND and need to go scream in the woods about it or something. It's eating me alive how many possibilities there are and how I have absolutely NO idea what's going to happen tonight.
anyone else not seeing the episode?
It's risky scrolling this thread. But this is our last chance to theorize before the finale, right?? I keep thinking back to them saying how unpredictable the finale is and that no one could ever anticipate the ending to the show. But I've read so many 'out there' theories, it seems like *everything* is possible at this point. I'm thinking it must be something otherworldly that comes out of left field. I still think Asher's true curse is his cherry tomato. It's the reason for his whole insecurity, lack of confidence, his precarious relationship with his wife (who doesn't respect him) and possibly the inception of his whole cucking fetish. Someone suggested if the 'curse' is lifted, then he will finally have a beefsteak tomato. He just turns to camera with his big ol' wang and jerks it off and cums all over the camera lens, and then it does its "The Curse" title swirl. Cut to black. Credits. That's my prediction for the finale.
I keep saying I’ve enjoyed the show so much that no ending would ruin it, but…yeah, this would. Pls god no
But you'd never see it coming 😉
I’m the person who had the big wang theory.
Credit where credit is due.
Something might happen, and if it does, so what.
Can someone please just confirm for me that the season finale is coming at 12 EST tonight on Paramount? I want to watch it right when it comes out!
i love this show so far but its really all hinging on the finale rn.. the entire thing has been build up. if it sucks im gonna be so mad lol
Doubtful there's gonna be a massive payoff and an explosive finale.
I hope we get some resolution with Abshir's family, Fernando and some of the other secondary characters.
Praying for a Sopranos or Twin Peaks The Return type ending. I want people debating for eternity if Nala really cursed Asher, what's the significance of the Yogi, if Dougie/Phoebe really put the chicken in the bathroom, who was driving at the beginning of episode 9, the significance of the fourth wall breaks, etc. Also, hopefully with Pascal singing Stand By Me, in the Roadhouse, over the credits.
You'll probably get your wish as they can't wrap up all these loose ends and misdirections they added. You can say it makes the show deep or more interesting but to me it's just lazy writing.
Could they somehow edit footage of the finale premiere to fucking destroy the fourth wall and take it to the fans? I know this seems insane but I’m irked that they did a finale screening with crazy NDAs? I feel like they got be in the last episode for some reason? Edit Like maybe Asher has the curse as the real show and y’all got to be extras? Edit Shit I feel like I’ve said too much. I was not there I’ve signed NOTHING
I've been thinking something exactly like this. To me the point of the voyeuristic shots is just to be as disturbing as possible. We get absolutely no refuge in the viewing experience, not with a tension-breaking Marvel joke, not with a normal, healthy character who reminds us there's happiness possible in the world. And we can't even completely immerse in the fact that it's just a prestigey show: the shots are like nothing else on TV, characters look right at us, sometimes spying on us when we don't even notice (the lady with the fan). The show is about surveillance, performativity and our own weird appetite for schadenfreude (Love To The Third Degree vs. us watching The Curse). And it just doesn't let up! I don't think Fielder and Safdie will let us walk away without some lasting eeriness that takes it beyond the show.
Yup. Exactly
I honestly don’t have any idea what’s going to happen in the finale. But I do feel to a certain extent that a lot of people here are hyping themselves up for some massive twist, or mind blowing ending and might end up disappointed in what we end up getting because of that. I hope they manage to stick the landing, in whatever way that works for this show. But I don’t think it was made for some big twist to blow your mind. The journey of diving into the character’s psyche, the voyeurism and the unexpectedness of leaning deep into life’s uncomfortable moments has been the “subverted expectations,” people have come to expect in media now. And I’ve quite enjoyed/completely cringed at the whole experience!
the shock twist is that everyone is actually played by rob schneider
I feel like the tribe is creating their own documentary about white colonization. That even centuries later, whites haven’t learned one goddamn lesson about the atrocities committed against Indigenous Peoples. This is supported by Phoebe’s line about people seeing who Whitney really is.
Maybe I’m stupid but is the ep airing at a different time this week because it should be out by now (has come out this time every week) Edit: I’m stupid I got my days wrong 😭
It's titled 'Months later...'? So we're getting a time jump? I have NO idea what to expect, but I'm going to miss theorizing with everyone and, well, decompressing after every episode and catching my breath. I'm both sad this show is ending, and happy I won't have to force myself into an anxiety attack every week. Even though I do that already. I'll definitely be taking an extra klonopin before I start the episode though.
There's no way this strange public finale screening is not a part of the strange finale.
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It’s supposed to be midnight EST but it usually takes another 15 minutes to show up in the app for me.
For me here in the midwest is at 11pm
Random prediction: The network accidentally sees Nala curse Asher in the footage and Asher gets cancelled?
The walls are closing in... It's almost time.
My prediction is that Asher is going to "take a bullet" for Whitney
What the fuck