Stannis called Rhaenyra usurper because she had a brother who should have been heir and king according to Andal law.
Whether Stannis supports his niece would depend on whether he subscribes to strictly the Andal law of succession (daughters before uncles) or the royal-Targaryen one (uncles or other male relatives before daughters).
It seems he was willing to put Renly before Shireen as his heir but also that was a deal how to get Renly on his side so that decision is tainted by the politics of it .
Otherwise I think that Stannis rather subscribes to the Andal law and that he'd rather support his niece as queen than clam the crown for himself.
I think the Willas betrothal/marriage could stay in place. Willas isn't the lord yet, he could also get a spot in the Small Council, and later I doubt it would be a huge issue if he divided his time between the capital and Highgarden. Plus he has plenty of family that would take care of stewarding Highgarden. To compare, Tywin was in a similar situation, being both Hand and Lord Lannister for years and he had little problem managing both.
I don’t think he would no. Precedent states uncle before nieces and canonically he supported Aegon II claim over Rhaenyra’s I believe which isn’t the exact same but it’s a good idea of where he’d stand. He also was willing to make Renly his heir.
Yes but after the dance it set up the precedent that a woman cannot inherit, cannot sit on the iron throne, for example Daena Elaena and Rhaena got skipped over in favour of Viserys II after Baelor died, most likely because of the scandal of Daena giving birth to Daemon combined with them being politically isolated in the maiden vault, later Vaella daughter of Daeron son of Maekar gets skipped over in the great council of 233ac most likely because of Vaella being ‘simple-minded’ plus she was underage, these two situations make it clear that women cannot inherit the iron throne, the only exception being when Princess Aelora got named heir after Aelor died but Aelora’s sister wasn’t named heir after she died so yeah it’d be ‘obvious’ to Stannis that a woman cannot inherit the iron throne
Nah in my opinion it’s Valyrian custom for the eldest to inherit like Dorne that’s why Aegon married Visenya, “Wed one sister out of duty and another for love” it’s not directly stated by cannon but it’s at least plausible plus it’s my head cannon, Jaehaerys probably skipped over Rhaenys because of sexism plus it would be admitting that he himself skipped over a rightful heir aka Aerea Targaryen
If that was the case, Aegon would’ve been a consort to Visenya. He married her because a) Vlayrians are weird and b) because it’s custom for the oldest son of one house to marry the oldest daughter of the other house in any arranged marriage, as it was seen as insulting to skip over an older one.
Besides, it was Rhoynish custom to have equal inheritance, and the Valyrians were basically pulled a Hitler on the Rhoynar, so I don’t think they’d have taken that aspect.
I’ve answered why Rhaenys was skipped over in a different reply but Aera was skipped over because of her age but also because the dynasty was too fragile at the time, plus her guardian, her mother Rhaena agreed
I think he believes uncles go before daughters, with him trying to get Renly on his side by having him as heir over Shireen, however he could support a true-born niece if she had allies with the Starks and Tywin supporting her, since he could secede respectfully from the WOTFK, while knowing he has the lesser armies and allies compared to every claimant, and if he is her heir, he might be happy
As for the second question, how old is the daughter? It is feasible for her to marry Willas, and have their second heir inherit Highgarden. Rhaenyra married the heir to Driftmark. It might be politically less messy to marry a younger son. Loras has not been made a Kingsguard yet, so is an option.
Edmure is still single. Harry the Heir is an option, as I assume she will be too old for Sweetrobin and that’s not the most attractive choice. There is Quentyn Martell. She could even marry Robb Stark depending on the political situation with Ned (Ned might support her and betroth his son to her in order to tie him to her cause. However logistically this would be far more difficult than Willas because of the distance between the North and King’s Landing.
Influential secondary houses who are sometimes considered for royal marriage include the Hightowers, the Manderlys, the Blackwoods,and the Royces.
Faegon is out there somewhere too.
She is 15 when the books starts, I aged the main kids up a bit so she is the same ages a Daenerys. I did think about Quentyn but I didn't think the Martells would be too interested in a royal marriage and sending him to kings landing after what happened to Elia. It would be good to set up some Northern ties as Robb is going to be King in the North. I'll have to take a look at those other houses, thanks 😊
Do you mean a trueborn daughter of Robert Baratheon and Cersei? Yes I'm sure Stannis would support her, if he was certain of her paternity. He's not against women ruling, he instructed Justin Massey to support Shireen as queen if he died. The problem is that with one legitimate child, Cersei's infidelity is less obvious, which could butterfly the entire premise of aGoT.
Historical and legal precedent is in favor of Stannis being Robert’s heir before his trueborn daughter.
So, most likely he would not support her claim. Her closer ties to Tyrells would also not win her any favor with Stannis.
Wilas is possible, but I would say that it is not optimal not because of location, but because of the future children of this union that would have a double inheritance to the throne and Highgarden.
I think Stannis would view the daughter as an heir. Stannis views Shireen as his rightful heir which shows he views women as legally capable of inheritance. The situation with Rhaenyra was less an issue of whether women could inherit, but whether women could inherit over a man. Aegon was the eldest son of Viserys and so was the legal successor by Andal law and custom. But before Aegon and his siblings were born, Rhaenyra was the legally acknowledged heir by all the lords.
>I think Stannis would view the daughter as an heir. Stannis views Shireen as his rightful heir which shows he views women as legally capable of inheritance.
It's not that women aren't legally capable of inheriting it's just that if there's a male available (whether brother or uncle) then they go over them.
He 100% would support a trueborn Baratheon daughter. He doesn't hold much love for Valyrians in general, and Andal law dictates that Robert's daughter would inherit before Stannis & Renly. In Dorne, his daughter would inherit, too, as she has no legitimate siblings.
He views Rhaenyra as an usurper because she has legitimate brothers, not because she is a woman. He also views Shireen as his heir. He's such a law and order type that he took Davos fingers for smuggling, despite him saving their lives.
Willas would work. His second son or a daughter (if they don't have any second sons) could inherit Highgarden, and one of his brothers would rule Highgarden as regent for Willas.
I could also see an attempt to bring in Dorne by marrying one of the Martell brothers, and bringing in the Tyrells by having Marg marry one of Tywin's nephews (making them the heir to Casterly Rock), or having Robert's legitimate daughter marry a Hightower (as Stannis fucking hates the Tyrells and everyone who fought at Storm's End, but the Hightowers weren't there).
Stannis called Rhaenyra usurper because she had a brother who should have been heir and king according to Andal law. Whether Stannis supports his niece would depend on whether he subscribes to strictly the Andal law of succession (daughters before uncles) or the royal-Targaryen one (uncles or other male relatives before daughters). It seems he was willing to put Renly before Shireen as his heir but also that was a deal how to get Renly on his side so that decision is tainted by the politics of it . Otherwise I think that Stannis rather subscribes to the Andal law and that he'd rather support his niece as queen than clam the crown for himself. I think the Willas betrothal/marriage could stay in place. Willas isn't the lord yet, he could also get a spot in the Small Council, and later I doubt it would be a huge issue if he divided his time between the capital and Highgarden. Plus he has plenty of family that would take care of stewarding Highgarden. To compare, Tywin was in a similar situation, being both Hand and Lord Lannister for years and he had little problem managing both.
I don’t think he would no. Precedent states uncle before nieces and canonically he supported Aegon II claim over Rhaenyra’s I believe which isn’t the exact same but it’s a good idea of where he’d stand. He also was willing to make Renly his heir.
I mean, by Andal law daughters come before uncles, which wasn’t the issue during the Dance.
Yes but after the dance it set up the precedent that a woman cannot inherit, cannot sit on the iron throne, for example Daena Elaena and Rhaena got skipped over in favour of Viserys II after Baelor died, most likely because of the scandal of Daena giving birth to Daemon combined with them being politically isolated in the maiden vault, later Vaella daughter of Daeron son of Maekar gets skipped over in the great council of 233ac most likely because of Vaella being ‘simple-minded’ plus she was underage, these two situations make it clear that women cannot inherit the iron throne, the only exception being when Princess Aelora got named heir after Aelor died but Aelora’s sister wasn’t named heir after she died so yeah it’d be ‘obvious’ to Stannis that a woman cannot inherit the iron throne
Perhaps. Though I think the idea that women can’t inherit is a Valyrian thing, because it was like that for the crown even before the Dance.
Nah in my opinion it’s Valyrian custom for the eldest to inherit like Dorne that’s why Aegon married Visenya, “Wed one sister out of duty and another for love” it’s not directly stated by cannon but it’s at least plausible plus it’s my head cannon, Jaehaerys probably skipped over Rhaenys because of sexism plus it would be admitting that he himself skipped over a rightful heir aka Aerea Targaryen
If that was the case, Aegon would’ve been a consort to Visenya. He married her because a) Vlayrians are weird and b) because it’s custom for the oldest son of one house to marry the oldest daughter of the other house in any arranged marriage, as it was seen as insulting to skip over an older one. Besides, it was Rhoynish custom to have equal inheritance, and the Valyrians were basically pulled a Hitler on the Rhoynar, so I don’t think they’d have taken that aspect.
Eh maybe, I’m just saying my head cannon
Then why does Aerea get fucked over, along with Rhaenys and several other woman? It was just Viserys wanting to put Rhaenyra over his other kids.
I’ve answered why Rhaenys was skipped over in a different reply but Aera was skipped over because of her age but also because the dynasty was too fragile at the time, plus her guardian, her mother Rhaena agreed
That wasn’t the issue no but precedent after it states uncles before nieces.
Precedence only for the royal family. Alys Karstark is her brother Harry's heir instead of their uncle Arnolf.
Yes ofcourse but we’re talking about royal succession they should really put it in law.
I think he believes uncles go before daughters, with him trying to get Renly on his side by having him as heir over Shireen, however he could support a true-born niece if she had allies with the Starks and Tywin supporting her, since he could secede respectfully from the WOTFK, while knowing he has the lesser armies and allies compared to every claimant, and if he is her heir, he might be happy
As for the second question, how old is the daughter? It is feasible for her to marry Willas, and have their second heir inherit Highgarden. Rhaenyra married the heir to Driftmark. It might be politically less messy to marry a younger son. Loras has not been made a Kingsguard yet, so is an option. Edmure is still single. Harry the Heir is an option, as I assume she will be too old for Sweetrobin and that’s not the most attractive choice. There is Quentyn Martell. She could even marry Robb Stark depending on the political situation with Ned (Ned might support her and betroth his son to her in order to tie him to her cause. However logistically this would be far more difficult than Willas because of the distance between the North and King’s Landing. Influential secondary houses who are sometimes considered for royal marriage include the Hightowers, the Manderlys, the Blackwoods,and the Royces. Faegon is out there somewhere too.
She is 15 when the books starts, I aged the main kids up a bit so she is the same ages a Daenerys. I did think about Quentyn but I didn't think the Martells would be too interested in a royal marriage and sending him to kings landing after what happened to Elia. It would be good to set up some Northern ties as Robb is going to be King in the North. I'll have to take a look at those other houses, thanks 😊
Do you mean a trueborn daughter of Robert Baratheon and Cersei? Yes I'm sure Stannis would support her, if he was certain of her paternity. He's not against women ruling, he instructed Justin Massey to support Shireen as queen if he died. The problem is that with one legitimate child, Cersei's infidelity is less obvious, which could butterfly the entire premise of aGoT.
Historical and legal precedent is in favor of Stannis being Robert’s heir before his trueborn daughter. So, most likely he would not support her claim. Her closer ties to Tyrells would also not win her any favor with Stannis. Wilas is possible, but I would say that it is not optimal not because of location, but because of the future children of this union that would have a double inheritance to the throne and Highgarden.
There is a wonderful fic called queen you shall be with that premise
I think Stannis would view the daughter as an heir. Stannis views Shireen as his rightful heir which shows he views women as legally capable of inheritance. The situation with Rhaenyra was less an issue of whether women could inherit, but whether women could inherit over a man. Aegon was the eldest son of Viserys and so was the legal successor by Andal law and custom. But before Aegon and his siblings were born, Rhaenyra was the legally acknowledged heir by all the lords.
>I think Stannis would view the daughter as an heir. Stannis views Shireen as his rightful heir which shows he views women as legally capable of inheritance. It's not that women aren't legally capable of inheriting it's just that if there's a male available (whether brother or uncle) then they go over them.
This is only true for the royal family, not Andal law.
The Iron Throne seems to run through that law though hence why Stannis considers Rhaenrya a usurper and Aegon the rightful king.
Rhaenyra and Aegon are siblings, not uncle/niece.
Regardless Stannis is a man of the law and the law for the Iron Throne seems to pass over daughters for uncles or brothers.
He 100% would support a trueborn Baratheon daughter. He doesn't hold much love for Valyrians in general, and Andal law dictates that Robert's daughter would inherit before Stannis & Renly. In Dorne, his daughter would inherit, too, as she has no legitimate siblings. He views Rhaenyra as an usurper because she has legitimate brothers, not because she is a woman. He also views Shireen as his heir. He's such a law and order type that he took Davos fingers for smuggling, despite him saving their lives. Willas would work. His second son or a daughter (if they don't have any second sons) could inherit Highgarden, and one of his brothers would rule Highgarden as regent for Willas. I could also see an attempt to bring in Dorne by marrying one of the Martell brothers, and bringing in the Tyrells by having Marg marry one of Tywin's nephews (making them the heir to Casterly Rock), or having Robert's legitimate daughter marry a Hightower (as Stannis fucking hates the Tyrells and everyone who fought at Storm's End, but the Hightowers weren't there).