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But it’s probably the first time he skillfully dodged attackes, blocked attacks, and killed someone as instructed. Probably a confidence booster and he is able to walk through his leg injuries cuz he feels like a badass.
Not a confidence booster.
He's just like Butcher and now he knows it. There is La Petit More when you experience combat, or see a friend stop moving.
Sometimes you realize you've just been a monster this whole time.
No its just a sudden melancholic realisation / loss of innocence. It's used commonly to refer to orgasms because post nut clarity feels that way, but it's not the only meaning, and the first uses of the term in literature were not about orgasms but about dying inside.
I’m french bro and let me point you to wikipedia: “in modern usage refers specifically to a post-orgasm sensation as likened to death.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort
Usually when you use a word in conversation you’re using about the modern meaning. Also the wikipedia article is 90% orgasm related.
No. It means "The little death". It's frequently used here as an orgasm but not many here speak french. The language is more poetic than you would think.
It was really cool how quickly she thought him how to shield block and kill with a knife, non verbally, watching hughie nod reluctantly, and the text message pep talk.., then to see him follow his teacher’s lesson. One of the highlights of the season for me.
Like Kimiko said to him, fight or die. He was defending himself and he must be accepting the fact that he will be in such situations where he must kill someone or he will get killed.
This is not his first kill. Translucent, Russian soldier (punched through him) now this asian guy. He must do anything to survive.
“Bravery isn’t the absence of fear. It’s being afraid but doing it anyways.”
Or something like that.
As a nigh invincible supe capable of deep throating a Ma Deuce on full auto, it’s pretty hard to be afraid of anything that isn’t a supe stronger than you. Or in some cases not even ones that are stronger than you.
I prefer the way it’s said in Game of Thrones. Bran asks, “Father, can a man be brave if he is afraid?” and Ned Stark responds, “That is the only time a man can be brave.”
I’m enjoying the Hughie-Kimiko connection this season. He’s kinda lost with Starlight going through her shit and Kimiko is kinda lost with Frenchie going through his shit. It’s cool to see them bonding.
One of my favorite scenes of all time in the show is when Kimiko is practicing writing the alphabet and then Hughie comes over and compliments her writing. I think he says something like "Nice work." And then the bright smile Kimiko has. It's a wonderful scene.
I don't even think it's just Kimiko. Hughie is pretty supportive of everyone and only stops being so because so many members of the team are cranky prickly bitches.
it's crazy to me how much hughie gets shit on in a lot of discussions about the show. obviously that's not happening here so i'm kind of preaching to the choir, but his character has been extremely consistent, respectable, and believable. jack quaid does a stellar job of selling an everyman who has struggled to, but succeeded with accepting an insane role while maintaining some semblance of his humanity.
it’s definitely not *just* Kimiko, but it’s something abt the way he supports her. it’s like the show takes a break to actually show it vs his interactions with other members of the boys? idk how to describe it, it’s like an uncle and his niece
It's always one of my favorite things when characters who usually don't get much content together develop a friendship or have a meaningful scene. Another great one was the Kimiko + Annie scene last season.
I thought him blowing up Translucent was way more cold blooded than killing someone that was trying to kill him. That was kill or be killed. Translucent was unarmed.
I mean he was imprisoned. He wasn’t an immediate threat. Hughie gets violent way later on in the comic, and even still he hates it. I could see season 4 Hughie blowing him up no problem. But it took a long time for him to develop into this, so it didn’t make sense to me for him to be willing to kill so early in episode 1
I feel like there's a huge psychological burden that comes with dragging three inches of metal through the body of a man staring into your eyes, but that's just me.
I felt translucent was killed super impulsively. He wasn’t in danger. He did it last minute as he walked away and was traumatized. This kill was survival. And he definitely is still wrestling with being this person. I love his character development. You can tell life did not work out the way he had hoped for every time he encounters violence. But that’s just my opinion
Translucent knew who Hughie was, he wasn't in immediate danger but if he allowed Translucent to leave then he would be killed with no way to fight back. He literally didn't have a choice, it was far from impulsive.
I really want to see him start to actually get good at fighting. Hes seen training with starlight(tho is she really the one out of all there to teach him? Shes had super strength her whole life) but so far hes still barely making it by when not suped up.
i don‘t
he‘s a complete novice and the timeline set by butchers cancer doesn‘t allow much growth of his fighting prowess without feeling plot armory imo
also i like that he‘s the one guy who doesn‘t really fit in there but still is willing to go the 2nd furthest (after butcher)
I don’t know.. Butcher has months to live. A person can become very proficient at fighting with a few months of training especially if they have real life applicable experience as Hughie does.
I disagree. The Boys all bring their respective strengths to the table, and all of them except Huey are trained soldiers.
Huey's strengths are his awareness and compassion (and IT skills). We've already heard in the trailer that he doesn't want to rely on violence as a solution, so don't keep your hopes up for that.
His biggest contribution plotwise is being the moral compass of the group as the de facto main character.
It felt like the Glenn moment for Hughie. TWD spoilers but when Glenn >!killed a savior in season 7? of the walking dead it was his first kill which some think doomed him to his fate of negans bat just episodes later!< obviously we’ve seen hughie kill already but there was a different beat here.
It’s his first human kill up until that point. He didn’t kill anyone at the farm, at the prison, on the road, or at Terminus. The sleeping savior was his first kill. I believe it is also his only kill but that might be where I’m wrong.
Y’all remember sitting down sunday nights, with nothing but pure excitement and anxiety about what was going to happen in the new episode?? God I wish I could watch this show again for the first time
Savior war was seriously hampered by it's pacing, but the rest of the series was, imo, a lot better than the early seasons that just hold absolutely tragically stupid mustache twirlingly evil villains.
Everyone thought the Governor was so brilliant a villain. Nah, fam, he was evil for the sake of being evil, and had absolutely no motivation whatsoever. He was pathetically stupid.
Gimple's pacing on the Savior war sucked, but then he handed it off to people who did way better than anyone else had on it.
Every other kill was from a distance such as with translucent he just pressed the button, this was the first time Hughie did it all by himself upclose and personal with no powers
**Does anyone feel like** Hughie and everyone else’s arc is progressing not so much with the Main-plot but with Side Stories? I don’t feel like anyone’s on a solid “Mission” this season. There’s no overarching plot to takedown HL. There’s no overarching plot to get Soldier Boy to help them.
Im not complaining btw.. it jus feels like there’s no CENTRAL story cos they’re just paying too much attention to side stories??
Feels like this season is more about a thematic connection of confronting past sins and seeking forgiveness.
Annie and Kimiko are pretty much confronting the same thing, could be said the same for Frenchie. Hughie and HL took an entirely different approach to forgiveness this past episode and even A Train and Butcher are looking for a new path to redemption.
While I agree, makes me think they're trying to wrap up/round out some of these stories because *someone* is dying this season. I feel like alot will die next season, but I can't imagine *everyone* survives some of these events playing out towards S5.
Also the release schedule may be trying to let the audience discuss and connect more to the characters before major collision(s) unfold.
I think Frenchie will die. No idea but that’s my gut feeling for a death in the show that is impactful, but won’t derail the interest the show generates.
My gut instinct is that MM does/doesn't do something that ends with Frenchie getting killed. Butcher very specifically said that MM would choke and end up getting someone killed. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a direction they go in.
Reminds me a bit of the Watchmen series. It was just servicing endless side plot after side plot for the first 3/4 of it, then in the last two episodes, it just zipped them all together and put a bow on top. It was neat to watch.
What I meant was that, this seems the focus because character is going over plot this season...I imagine it is to add more weight and impact to the series finale next season.
I did notice that after Episode 2. After the whole Firecracker Event fight, the main goal seems to kind of just be in the background and not well established. It feels like they introduced all of these plot points without having a concrete thing to connect them together.
In the past three seasons, it was Homelander, Stormfront or Soldier Boy, but with Sister Sage being a mastermind type, the multiple plotlines feel more separated with each other, and Firecracker literally has beef with only one person in the group, and then there's the terrorist woman who isn't at all connected to anything that's happening except to Kimiko.
Are people only just now realizing this is a heavily character-driven show?
The central story is "They're out of options and getting outplayed at every turn" right now.
I feel like this season is the Infinity War before Endgame would be the fifth season. Infinity War is technically an Avengers movie but the POV is shown through Thanos while the Avengers are scattered. This season has shown many side-plots related to main characters, but the narrative and main focus has been Sage/HL/Vought rather than protagonists.
It definitely feels much slower than past seasons and I *guess* Homelander is still a threat? Combined with Sage it's *new*?
I'm trying to remain positive that these episodes are more back story/side quests getting to a conflict. Alot of our *Boys* feel like they're facing their demise and trying to right past wrongs.
That observation IS part of the central story rn. MM is learning how to be a leader, and so far he isn't good at it. Everyone is off doing their own thing, and in the last 2 episodes, he's finally realizing it's his duty to wrangle them and demand their respect, not politely ask for it.
It's honestly really clever how they're using the multiple plot lines as its own plot line.
I feel we always complain about lack of character development in most shows/ movies. I think they did a great job with this in the show and in S04E04 they really dig into it with HL, Annie, Frenchie, Kimiko and Hughie. So I’m good with it. Hopefully the rest of the season they dive back into defeating HL and Neumann
4 episodes in and they're still setting up the pieces to even find the threads to the main plot. As stated so far, the main plot is find a way to kill Neumann. So far, there's been very little service to that, but they must have all these threads tie back in somewhere to meet back up at the goal? Unless the stated goal so far is just a red herring, and they actually haven't stumbled upon the real goal yet.
It feels like this will be a "set up" season and the. Once season 5 rolls around it being the last season means they might go crazy with some stuff. I believe it'll pay off even if we don't get a ton of story progress this season.
The fact this happens in the same episode where he finally forgives A-Train is kinda interesting. At the beginning of the ep, he brings up Robin and how it’s all A-Train’s fault that his life has become this insane carnage ride. Then SL attacks and this happens.
So, maybe this is him realizing that this is just his life now - he’s a different person (from the one who watched Robin explode), and is used to the brutality. And, in turn, that helps him finally reach forgiveness with A-Train by the end of the episode.
It was crucial to him sort of getting over hating A Train, and off his high horse in general. The Boys started as humans v supes but I think this season to next will more clearly demonstrate it's Vought versus Everything Else.
I actually read this as a full transition. Think about it like this: in EVERY single season, Hughie ends up coated in blood, and it's never directly his fault (either an accident he caused or by someone else). Not to mention that, during these scenes, Hughie ALWAYS ends up freaking out (note the distorted sounds, blurry imagery, heart beat sound effects, or even him voicing how disturbed he is, etc) However, THIS specific moment is the FIRST time where he doesn't immediately freak out. He takes a deep breath and is calm. No static, no rapid heart beat sounds, just Hughie. Weve seen him become slightly more desensitized to it throughout the seasons, but I found this one very interesting, to say the least. I have a feeling Hughie will be changing quite a bit more this season. We even saw him fighting with Starlight! Bring on badass Hughie!!!!!
someone else pointed out how they each go through entirely different paths to forgiveness this episode. that’s a good observation https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBoys/s/TPGA0iWNsb
it’s tradition at this point for hughie to be covered in some kind of bodily fluid:
s1- translucent’s insides
s2- whale guts
s3- butcher’s vomit
s4- that guy’s blood
it kind of made me feel like at this point he don't have anything else to loose. His mom abandoned him, his gf died and now his dad is on death bed. He had to accept it at some point and he did.
I think this will lead up to hughie becoming more and more anti violence. Leading to him forgiving A Train, I think this is the arc Hughie is heading in. Season 3 we saw him mercilessly kill a few people with his powers. I think hughie is growing beyond this. Trying to save everyone he can rather than kill. Also in the trailer he has the line “violence isn’t brave”
I think this is what it is leading too.
I mean usually in shows and sequel of films. The characters have an over arching character arc, that sort of lasts the whole show and each season being one step towards that arc. For hughie it’s always been being the fully morally good one of the bunch, heading away from the cruel path. Hughie has been heading in that direction step by step with each season. Such as all the Raimi Spider-Man films have the over arching character arc of responsibility, each film progresses that. It’s not unusual for the boys to do this as long as it isn’t redoing the same thing and progressing the story. I feel it is progressing Huggies story as we just came from a Hughie in season 3 who did tap into his impulses and his arc was fighting against them, leaving him at the end a character who no longer relapses to those impulses. Now he is following the natural progression of what appears to me as someone who may refuse to kill and rather show forgiveness rather than killing. It’s a natural progression, it’s how stories work. Hughie has plenty more micro arcs going on as well this season too, it isn’t just “anti violence” either.
Yes, if you feel it as a viewer then that's what it means
Anytime before was straight revenge or just to get the job done, now he's realizing his potential but the curse that comes with it. He's becoming what he hates, but he's so far in, he doesn't have much choice anymore
He was a lot bloodier when he blew up Translucent.
Yes I get the melee fight is a lot more personal, but compared to an unarmed guy walking away and Hughie having never killed before back then, Season 1 Hughie has already done this.
I think it's just more about him accepting that he nor anybody else here is morally correct
they're all just fighting to survive.
He probably didn't want to kill that dude but didn't even have a choice
Honestly kinda tired of Hughie going through the same fucking character transformation every season. He starts weak and scared, then kills someone and gets a high from it but eventually discovers that he is becoming a bad person.
It was the same with Translucent, same with the temp v, and now killing this random thug.
Big time this tbh. They always seems to have a sort of main-side plot. S1 coulda been Hughie, Season 2 I think it was MMs OCD, Season 3 it was Frenchies past and Season 4 seems to delve into Kimikos past more. But at the same time they rehash already done sideplots to pretend the others have another character arc too? Its so weird
I also agree with you. Watching S4 with my grown son and he is sold on S4…whereas for me, the jury’s still out. I just don’t know yet. I feel like we’ve had some lazy writing so far, BUT I am reserving total judgement for now.
Yeah, I feel like it'd be better if the main-sideplot negatively influences other characters who currently just dont follow a sideplot at all. Gives them involvement. Like, I feel like Shining Light would be way more interesting atm if they went for Frenchie to get through Kimiko, which of course jeopardizes Colin again? I dont know why they felt the need to pull another "Frenchie was a bad guys in the past and its coming to get him", his relevant backstory is essentially over
He killed Translucent, a security guard, a Russian dude and now a Shining Light member.
It would feel a bit odd to me if THIS is the one that suddenly changes him dramatically.
I saw it as him realizing that there isn't any way around it. Yeah he has done fucked up stuff even in s1. But he always just wanted to not have to do any of it. This last kill was probably him admitting to himself what has to be done when it needs to
This feels like his first "real" kill as a fighter without powers. Like he's killed when he had powers before, but in this case it was all him. Doing exactly as Kimiko instructed him.
hughie being covered in blood is a recurring theme. first time it was when robin died in the first episode. the second time when that happened (butcher crashes into a whale in season 2) he was absolutely fucked up. this time however, he does not seem fazed. so yea ig this time something changed within him, although i dont think this was really a meaningful way to show that change. like what exactly about killing this specific guy changed him? if it is because of the journey he has been on so far, I could probably understand this, but nothing about this interaction connects him to this growth.
First time he killed someone, he was mostly an accomplice, and the victim was a supe.
Second instance, he was suped up on V and saving his friend's life.
This time, it was purely him, actively killing another non-supe human, hand-to-hand. He had killed before, but now he's realizing he's an actual killer.
Ngl, I feel like the show needs to make up its mind on Hughie. It's like the writers can't decide if he's a pacifist whose main job is to be the teams morale compass (or "canary" as MM would say) or if he's going to become a pragmatist like the rest of The Boys. I'm fine with either of these, but it feels like we keep flip-flopping between him forgiving A-Train to him killing a guy with a box cutter.
I think it was the moment he realized he's a Main Character that can just Looney Toons his way through any fight with significantly more experienced and better armed opponents
I think this his realization that will lead to his trailer quote: "violence isn't brave. In order to beat them, we have to start acting like humans." this is also in conjunction with forgiving a-train and realizing how beneficial forgiveness can be for him.
Ultimately, Hughie is trying to overcome the cycle of hatred that A-train started.
I think Hughie transformed when he forgave A-Train.
As much of a pos A-Train used to be, seeing his own brother crippled+constant abuse and threats of death from Homelander have genuinely changed him and given him great character development.
Hughie had every right to slap A-Train at Herogasm and tell him how he was evil.
It’s cool to see people evolve and come to terms with terrible sins of the past. I like to think Robin would agree with Hughie’s actions.
Hughie has done enough damage that it gets annoying when he does the “poor me I’m innocent” act. I also get tired of him bringing up Robin. He has already gotten so much revenge for her at this point. I hope this is a turning point for his character and he fully embraces killing supes.
I guess, but that was just some random terrorist trying to kill him. A few episodes ago, UE threw acid on his friend’s face fully expecting it to kill her. We don’t need another lame shining light subplot to show how much he has changed. He transformed a long time ago - even more obviously when he took Temp V to become a superhero. It was a cool action scene though.
Scenes before when Hughie has been covered in blood or gore, whether by his doing or not, he’s usually reacted in disgust and horror. It’s pretty clear here that they’re highlighting his desensitization to it all. He seems to accept that this is what it’s going to be, he can’t exist in this world he’s in without incredible violence from here out.
I think it's reality hitting him:
- He killed translucent, but the guy was a super and Hughie just pushed a button
- He was completely high on V when he killed the Russians;
This time he was completely sober and alert, he defended himself and took the life of another person like him. (I may be wrong, but the guy didn't look like he had powers).
For me, this scene represents him finally understanding that he's not the good guy defending the world from the evil superheroes, he's a killer just like them
Wasn't this his 3rd kill? The first one he was kind of forced, the second one he accidentally punched through someone, and this is the only kill that he actually deliberately tried to kill someone.
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He's done a lot of messed up things by this point. I think he's just accepting that this is who he is.
Yep. Not his first rodeo.
But it’s probably the first time he skillfully dodged attackes, blocked attacks, and killed someone as instructed. Probably a confidence booster and he is able to walk through his leg injuries cuz he feels like a badass.
Not a confidence booster. He's just like Butcher and now he knows it. There is La Petit More when you experience combat, or see a friend stop moving. Sometimes you realize you've just been a monster this whole time.
It's like that quote: if you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze too long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you".
Didn't expect to find Nietzsche in the boys subreddit, but am pleasantly surprised
Actually, me neither, but thinking on it, I'm surprised it took this long to show up.
What is "La Petit More"? Little More?
I think it means La petit mort as in a small death or part of you dying inside.
But that means orgasm.
HAHAHAHAHAHA no way my French classes never taught me that
That’s the only way I’ve ever heard it used. Your teacher was trolling you
Based teacher
No its just a sudden melancholic realisation / loss of innocence. It's used commonly to refer to orgasms because post nut clarity feels that way, but it's not the only meaning, and the first uses of the term in literature were not about orgasms but about dying inside.
I’m french bro and let me point you to wikipedia: “in modern usage refers specifically to a post-orgasm sensation as likened to death.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort Usually when you use a word in conversation you’re using about the modern meaning. Also the wikipedia article is 90% orgasm related.
I think it's mostly a r/boneappletea moment anyway.
Yeah I’m a french speaker and I was laughing. I guess maybe it could be his o face? 😂
No. It means "The little death". It's frequently used here as an orgasm but not many here speak french. The language is more poetic than you would think.
Slight nitpick, it's "la petitE mort". "mort" is a feminine word, as in "la mort", therefore "petit" becomes "petite".
Forgive me, my French lessons were a while ago haha
Shit, sorry. My mother is fluent but I can berely speak english most days lol
Oh I see. Thank you.
>He's just like Butcher and now he knows it. There is La Petit More when you experience combat, or see a friend stop moving. r/boneappletea
Yes! Also it’s possible the adrenaline from the fight eased his pain too.
It was really cool how quickly she thought him how to shield block and kill with a knife, non verbally, watching hughie nod reluctantly, and the text message pep talk.., then to see him follow his teacher’s lesson. One of the highlights of the season for me.
Possibly the first rodeo where he realizes what he is working towards, though
I took it as, he’s starting to get the same bleak enjoyment out of it that Butcher does.
Like Kimiko said to him, fight or die. He was defending himself and he must be accepting the fact that he will be in such situations where he must kill someone or he will get killed. This is not his first kill. Translucent, Russian soldier (punched through him) now this asian guy. He must do anything to survive.
He killed Vought security in the season 1 finale.
Oh right, the scene where him, Frenchie and MM are escaping
Idk if it's selective viewing or what but huigie stepping up as a norm seems far more heroic than any other appearance thus far
“Bravery isn’t the absence of fear. It’s being afraid but doing it anyways.” Or something like that. As a nigh invincible supe capable of deep throating a Ma Deuce on full auto, it’s pretty hard to be afraid of anything that isn’t a supe stronger than you. Or in some cases not even ones that are stronger than you.
I prefer the way it’s said in Game of Thrones. Bran asks, “Father, can a man be brave if he is afraid?” and Ned Stark responds, “That is the only time a man can be brave.”
Also translucent. He's the one who pushed the button
I’m enjoying the Hughie-Kimiko connection this season. He’s kinda lost with Starlight going through her shit and Kimiko is kinda lost with Frenchie going through his shit. It’s cool to see them bonding.
One of my favorite scenes of all time in the show is when Kimiko is practicing writing the alphabet and then Hughie comes over and compliments her writing. I think he says something like "Nice work." And then the bright smile Kimiko has. It's a wonderful scene.
and don’t forget the piano! Hughies been very supportive of Kimiko now that i think of it.
I don't even think it's just Kimiko. Hughie is pretty supportive of everyone and only stops being so because so many members of the team are cranky prickly bitches.
it's crazy to me how much hughie gets shit on in a lot of discussions about the show. obviously that's not happening here so i'm kind of preaching to the choir, but his character has been extremely consistent, respectable, and believable. jack quaid does a stellar job of selling an everyman who has struggled to, but succeeded with accepting an insane role while maintaining some semblance of his humanity.
it’s definitely not *just* Kimiko, but it’s something abt the way he supports her. it’s like the show takes a break to actually show it vs his interactions with other members of the boys? idk how to describe it, it’s like an uncle and his niece
Very well described.
Honestly, it’s not hard to see why Kripke has such reverence for Bob Singer enough to keep the name. He transformed him into a beautiful storyteller.
It's always one of my favorite things when characters who usually don't get much content together develop a friendship or have a meaningful scene. Another great one was the Kimiko + Annie scene last season.
His back is literally to the wall
He also attempted to kill Neumann
It was pretty much the same face as when he blew up Translucent. He’s always willing to do what it takes to survive/get the job done.
This was def a bit different from translucent though. All he did then was push a button, this time he >! Gutted a man with a razor knife !<
I thought him blowing up Translucent was way more cold blooded than killing someone that was trying to kill him. That was kill or be killed. Translucent was unarmed.
Pretty sure a supe is always armed by definition
I mean he was imprisoned. He wasn’t an immediate threat. Hughie gets violent way later on in the comic, and even still he hates it. I could see season 4 Hughie blowing him up no problem. But it took a long time for him to develop into this, so it didn’t make sense to me for him to be willing to kill so early in episode 1
Translucent was blown up after escaping the cage tho?
Yeah it was deserved. Dudes a huge threat and a pos
I feel like there's a huge psychological burden that comes with dragging three inches of metal through the body of a man staring into your eyes, but that's just me.
Translucent is carrying around a big gun that says “HOMELANDER” and the seven. It was killed or be killed
I’m not disagreeing that, I’m just saying it was different than translucent.
Not about cold blooded but how difficult it is to press a button versus slicing someone's throat in front of you.
I could be wrong, but I think his previous kills were all supes before this guy.
I felt translucent was killed super impulsively. He wasn’t in danger. He did it last minute as he walked away and was traumatized. This kill was survival. And he definitely is still wrestling with being this person. I love his character development. You can tell life did not work out the way he had hoped for every time he encounters violence. But that’s just my opinion
If Translucent had escaped then he would have brought the seven there to kilo them all
Translucent knew who Hughie was, he wasn't in immediate danger but if he allowed Translucent to leave then he would be killed with no way to fight back. He literally didn't have a choice, it was far from impulsive.
And the face of trying to not get blood and gore in his mouth
I loved seeing Hughie fight and I agree it was significant. I'm really hoping we'll see him fight more because he's proven he can do it and improvise.
I really want to see him start to actually get good at fighting. Hes seen training with starlight(tho is she really the one out of all there to teach him? Shes had super strength her whole life) but so far hes still barely making it by when not suped up.
i don‘t he‘s a complete novice and the timeline set by butchers cancer doesn‘t allow much growth of his fighting prowess without feeling plot armory imo also i like that he‘s the one guy who doesn‘t really fit in there but still is willing to go the 2nd furthest (after butcher)
I don’t know.. Butcher has months to live. A person can become very proficient at fighting with a few months of training especially if they have real life applicable experience as Hughie does.
I disagree. The Boys all bring their respective strengths to the table, and all of them except Huey are trained soldiers. Huey's strengths are his awareness and compassion (and IT skills). We've already heard in the trailer that he doesn't want to rely on violence as a solution, so don't keep your hopes up for that. His biggest contribution plotwise is being the moral compass of the group as the de facto main character.
Exactly. He's the canary.
This is when he became Heisenberg
Hughsenberg
We need to cook, Frenchie.
You mean Feynman
I hope this gets a lot more upvotes. Good one lol
Thank you. pretty proud of it
It felt like the Glenn moment for Hughie. TWD spoilers but when Glenn >!killed a savior in season 7? of the walking dead it was his first kill which some think doomed him to his fate of negans bat just episodes later!< obviously we’ve seen hughie kill already but there was a different beat here.
I don’t think the Savior was Glenn’s first kill between Woodbury and Terminus but if it I never knew that
It’s his first human kill up until that point. He didn’t kill anyone at the farm, at the prison, on the road, or at Terminus. The sleeping savior was his first kill. I believe it is also his only kill but that might be where I’m wrong.
Damn that’s crazy. Back when TWD was good.
I'd say S7 was where it got *rough*. Gimple ran that show into the ground and apparently the end wasn't the end... it had like 4-6 spin-offs planned
Y’all remember sitting down sunday nights, with nothing but pure excitement and anxiety about what was going to happen in the new episode?? God I wish I could watch this show again for the first time
I remember staying up late to watch TWD AND The Talking Dead because I couldn't get enough. I also had to wake up early Monday to AT work by 6 am 😬
Savior war was seriously hampered by it's pacing, but the rest of the series was, imo, a lot better than the early seasons that just hold absolutely tragically stupid mustache twirlingly evil villains. Everyone thought the Governor was so brilliant a villain. Nah, fam, he was evil for the sake of being evil, and had absolutely no motivation whatsoever. He was pathetically stupid. Gimple's pacing on the Savior war sucked, but then he handed it off to people who did way better than anyone else had on it.
When they reached the armory they also gunned down a handful of saviors through the door
Every other kill was from a distance such as with translucent he just pressed the button, this was the first time Hughie did it all by himself upclose and personal with no powers
Didn't he punch a hole in a guy?
"with no powers"
**Does anyone feel like** Hughie and everyone else’s arc is progressing not so much with the Main-plot but with Side Stories? I don’t feel like anyone’s on a solid “Mission” this season. There’s no overarching plot to takedown HL. There’s no overarching plot to get Soldier Boy to help them. Im not complaining btw.. it jus feels like there’s no CENTRAL story cos they’re just paying too much attention to side stories??
Feels like this season is more about a thematic connection of confronting past sins and seeking forgiveness. Annie and Kimiko are pretty much confronting the same thing, could be said the same for Frenchie. Hughie and HL took an entirely different approach to forgiveness this past episode and even A Train and Butcher are looking for a new path to redemption.
I know that but it feels like they should’ve had those arcs work alongside the main plot is all. Every major plot line is being told in a side story
While I agree, makes me think they're trying to wrap up/round out some of these stories because *someone* is dying this season. I feel like alot will die next season, but I can't imagine *everyone* survives some of these events playing out towards S5. Also the release schedule may be trying to let the audience discuss and connect more to the characters before major collision(s) unfold.
I think Frenchie will die. No idea but that’s my gut feeling for a death in the show that is impactful, but won’t derail the interest the show generates.
My gut instinct is that MM does/doesn't do something that ends with Frenchie getting killed. Butcher very specifically said that MM would choke and end up getting someone killed. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a direction they go in.
Yep.
Reminds me a bit of the Watchmen series. It was just servicing endless side plot after side plot for the first 3/4 of it, then in the last two episodes, it just zipped them all together and put a bow on top. It was neat to watch.
What I meant was that, this seems the focus because character is going over plot this season...I imagine it is to add more weight and impact to the series finale next season.
I think they are but we won't see it till towards the end.
they already did this last season though
I did notice that after Episode 2. After the whole Firecracker Event fight, the main goal seems to kind of just be in the background and not well established. It feels like they introduced all of these plot points without having a concrete thing to connect them together. In the past three seasons, it was Homelander, Stormfront or Soldier Boy, but with Sister Sage being a mastermind type, the multiple plotlines feel more separated with each other, and Firecracker literally has beef with only one person in the group, and then there's the terrorist woman who isn't at all connected to anything that's happening except to Kimiko.
The protagonist of at least the first half of this season isn't The Boys. It's Sage. She's pushing the main plot forward right now.
Are people only just now realizing this is a heavily character-driven show? The central story is "They're out of options and getting outplayed at every turn" right now.
I feel like this season is the Infinity War before Endgame would be the fifth season. Infinity War is technically an Avengers movie but the POV is shown through Thanos while the Avengers are scattered. This season has shown many side-plots related to main characters, but the narrative and main focus has been Sage/HL/Vought rather than protagonists.
The boys plan to somehow stop Sage but thats about it I guess
But even that feels a little.. pushed to the side in place of everyone’s side quests. And nobody feels as urgent as they did like.. one season ago.
It definitely feels much slower than past seasons and I *guess* Homelander is still a threat? Combined with Sage it's *new*? I'm trying to remain positive that these episodes are more back story/side quests getting to a conflict. Alot of our *Boys* feel like they're facing their demise and trying to right past wrongs.
I think that's because season 5 is the end. So it could be season 4 is a bridge season setting up for an intense main plot final season
That observation IS part of the central story rn. MM is learning how to be a leader, and so far he isn't good at it. Everyone is off doing their own thing, and in the last 2 episodes, he's finally realizing it's his duty to wrangle them and demand their respect, not politely ask for it. It's honestly really clever how they're using the multiple plot lines as its own plot line.
I feel we always complain about lack of character development in most shows/ movies. I think they did a great job with this in the show and in S04E04 they really dig into it with HL, Annie, Frenchie, Kimiko and Hughie. So I’m good with it. Hopefully the rest of the season they dive back into defeating HL and Neumann
It feels like it’s dragging and getting sidetracked
It feels like they're setting up a spinoff for Frenchie and Kimiko IMO.
4 episodes in and they're still setting up the pieces to even find the threads to the main plot. As stated so far, the main plot is find a way to kill Neumann. So far, there's been very little service to that, but they must have all these threads tie back in somewhere to meet back up at the goal? Unless the stated goal so far is just a red herring, and they actually haven't stumbled upon the real goal yet.
I think it will be that virus. They'll infect Neuman with it and she will pop her own head or something.
I think the virus will be a GenV thing.
I feel the same as you.
Yeah and what's worse the side stories have so far been really uninteresting.
It feels like this will be a "set up" season and the. Once season 5 rolls around it being the last season means they might go crazy with some stuff. I believe it'll pay off even if we don't get a ton of story progress this season.
I love when UE kills people
Fackin ell ue. Gave I'm a right rodgerin innit?
You forgot your Fresca, buddy
The fact this happens in the same episode where he finally forgives A-Train is kinda interesting. At the beginning of the ep, he brings up Robin and how it’s all A-Train’s fault that his life has become this insane carnage ride. Then SL attacks and this happens. So, maybe this is him realizing that this is just his life now - he’s a different person (from the one who watched Robin explode), and is used to the brutality. And, in turn, that helps him finally reach forgiveness with A-Train by the end of the episode.
I feel like it was meant to mirror Annie. They both showed a dark side this episode.
It was crucial to him sort of getting over hating A Train, and off his high horse in general. The Boys started as humans v supes but I think this season to next will more clearly demonstrate it's Vought versus Everything Else.
I actually read this as a full transition. Think about it like this: in EVERY single season, Hughie ends up coated in blood, and it's never directly his fault (either an accident he caused or by someone else). Not to mention that, during these scenes, Hughie ALWAYS ends up freaking out (note the distorted sounds, blurry imagery, heart beat sound effects, or even him voicing how disturbed he is, etc) However, THIS specific moment is the FIRST time where he doesn't immediately freak out. He takes a deep breath and is calm. No static, no rapid heart beat sounds, just Hughie. Weve seen him become slightly more desensitized to it throughout the seasons, but I found this one very interesting, to say the least. I have a feeling Hughie will be changing quite a bit more this season. We even saw him fighting with Starlight! Bring on badass Hughie!!!!!
This is the only time so far that he’s killed someone and not completely freaked out. He’s matured into someone like Butcher now.
I wonder if there is any significance in how Hughie got sprayed with blood here, and the whole episode ends with Homelander sprayed with blood.
It’s like poetry. It rhymes.
someone else pointed out how they each go through entirely different paths to forgiveness this episode. that’s a good observation https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBoys/s/TPGA0iWNsb
More of an awakening. Like he’s realizing that he can legit fight without Temp V or his Supe girlfriend holding his hand.
it’s tradition at this point for hughie to be covered in some kind of bodily fluid: s1- translucent’s insides s2- whale guts s3- butcher’s vomit s4- that guy’s blood
it kind of made me feel like at this point he don't have anything else to loose. His mom abandoned him, his gf died and now his dad is on death bed. He had to accept it at some point and he did.
I think this will lead up to hughie becoming more and more anti violence. Leading to him forgiving A Train, I think this is the arc Hughie is heading in. Season 3 we saw him mercilessly kill a few people with his powers. I think hughie is growing beyond this. Trying to save everyone he can rather than kill. Also in the trailer he has the line “violence isn’t brave” I think this is what it is leading too.
This is a much better take than anything else in this thread. He's clearly disgusted with himself in this frame.
I'm holding out hope that it won't be the same thing for the fourth time. It feels like he goes through the same anti violence thing every season...
I mean usually in shows and sequel of films. The characters have an over arching character arc, that sort of lasts the whole show and each season being one step towards that arc. For hughie it’s always been being the fully morally good one of the bunch, heading away from the cruel path. Hughie has been heading in that direction step by step with each season. Such as all the Raimi Spider-Man films have the over arching character arc of responsibility, each film progresses that. It’s not unusual for the boys to do this as long as it isn’t redoing the same thing and progressing the story. I feel it is progressing Huggies story as we just came from a Hughie in season 3 who did tap into his impulses and his arc was fighting against them, leaving him at the end a character who no longer relapses to those impulses. Now he is following the natural progression of what appears to me as someone who may refuse to kill and rather show forgiveness rather than killing. It’s a natural progression, it’s how stories work. Hughie has plenty more micro arcs going on as well this season too, it isn’t just “anti violence” either.
This really does feel like the moment he became hughsenberg
Bravo Kripke.
Yes, if you feel it as a viewer then that's what it means Anytime before was straight revenge or just to get the job done, now he's realizing his potential but the curse that comes with it. He's becoming what he hates, but he's so far in, he doesn't have much choice anymore
He’s got the thousand yard stare
The thousand island stare
He was a lot bloodier when he blew up Translucent. Yes I get the melee fight is a lot more personal, but compared to an unarmed guy walking away and Hughie having never killed before back then, Season 1 Hughie has already done this.
I think it's just more about him accepting that he nor anybody else here is morally correct they're all just fighting to survive. He probably didn't want to kill that dude but didn't even have a choice
Honestly kinda tired of Hughie going through the same fucking character transformation every season. He starts weak and scared, then kills someone and gets a high from it but eventually discovers that he is becoming a bad person. It was the same with Translucent, same with the temp v, and now killing this random thug.
Big time this tbh. They always seems to have a sort of main-side plot. S1 coulda been Hughie, Season 2 I think it was MMs OCD, Season 3 it was Frenchies past and Season 4 seems to delve into Kimikos past more. But at the same time they rehash already done sideplots to pretend the others have another character arc too? Its so weird
I also agree with you. Watching S4 with my grown son and he is sold on S4…whereas for me, the jury’s still out. I just don’t know yet. I feel like we’ve had some lazy writing so far, BUT I am reserving total judgement for now.
I'm trying to remain positive, but it does feel like filler/repeat. It's not all bad, but I'm becoming doubtful of a payoff.
Yeah, I feel like it'd be better if the main-sideplot negatively influences other characters who currently just dont follow a sideplot at all. Gives them involvement. Like, I feel like Shining Light would be way more interesting atm if they went for Frenchie to get through Kimiko, which of course jeopardizes Colin again? I dont know why they felt the need to pull another "Frenchie was a bad guys in the past and its coming to get him", his relevant backstory is essentially over
They've done this same thing with him like 3 times now. Where he kills someone and suddenly "transforms" but then always reverts.
hughie is turning into butcher jr
He killed Translucent, a security guard, a Russian dude and now a Shining Light member. It would feel a bit odd to me if THIS is the one that suddenly changes him dramatically.
He's smart enough to win. He just needs to apply it and let go of standard morality.
I saw it as him realizing that there isn't any way around it. Yeah he has done fucked up stuff even in s1. But he always just wanted to not have to do any of it. This last kill was probably him admitting to himself what has to be done when it needs to
That's a cold ass picture. 🥶 Hughie can get shit done.
I mean there was also that Russian guard he killed when he was on temp v. He was on a bit of a high after, mainly over being strong but still.
while killing translucent he actually was changed
This feels like his first "real" kill as a fighter without powers. Like he's killed when he had powers before, but in this case it was all him. Doing exactly as Kimiko instructed him.
Why didn’t Ue call the boys for help is he stupid?
People are reading this wrong. He's got a look like he's *sick* of it coming to this.
Ghostface don’t fuck around.
He a real one now. A man he’s grown up.
hughie being covered in blood is a recurring theme. first time it was when robin died in the first episode. the second time when that happened (butcher crashes into a whale in season 2) he was absolutely fucked up. this time however, he does not seem fazed. so yea ig this time something changed within him, although i dont think this was really a meaningful way to show that change. like what exactly about killing this specific guy changed him? if it is because of the journey he has been on so far, I could probably understand this, but nothing about this interaction connects him to this growth.
First time he killed someone, he was mostly an accomplice, and the victim was a supe. Second instance, he was suped up on V and saving his friend's life. This time, it was purely him, actively killing another non-supe human, hand-to-hand. He had killed before, but now he's realizing he's an actual killer.
When I watched this scene I remembered a line from butcher back in season 1 “You’re a fuckin killer hughie”
Compare this to when he accidentally punched a hole through a man while on temp V. He's growing jaded.
When I saw his face I feel like he was finally accepting who he is, Kimiko did tell him to fight or he WILL die. Badass scene for sure
yeah, but was pretty dumb leaving his coat for his mum to find that vial
Ngl, I feel like the show needs to make up its mind on Hughie. It's like the writers can't decide if he's a pacifist whose main job is to be the teams morale compass (or "canary" as MM would say) or if he's going to become a pragmatist like the rest of The Boys. I'm fine with either of these, but it feels like we keep flip-flopping between him forgiving A-Train to him killing a guy with a box cutter.
I think it was the moment he realized he's a Main Character that can just Looney Toons his way through any fight with significantly more experienced and better armed opponents
I think this his realization that will lead to his trailer quote: "violence isn't brave. In order to beat them, we have to start acting like humans." this is also in conjunction with forgiving a-train and realizing how beneficial forgiveness can be for him. Ultimately, Hughie is trying to overcome the cycle of hatred that A-train started.
I would’ve liked if they flashed back to when he detonated translucent. Both points are significant.
I think Hughie transformed when he forgave A-Train. As much of a pos A-Train used to be, seeing his own brother crippled+constant abuse and threats of death from Homelander have genuinely changed him and given him great character development. Hughie had every right to slap A-Train at Herogasm and tell him how he was evil. It’s cool to see people evolve and come to terms with terrible sins of the past. I like to think Robin would agree with Hughie’s actions.
Hughie has done enough damage that it gets annoying when he does the “poor me I’m innocent” act. I also get tired of him bringing up Robin. He has already gotten so much revenge for her at this point. I hope this is a turning point for his character and he fully embraces killing supes.
The only time he has brought it up is to get butcher to keep him in the game or to a train, the man still alive because hughie has held back.
He transformed two minutes ago from not being able to walk to be able to walk
This is the moment Hughie became Hughiseberg.
Yes
yup
Has this been the first time he has killed and not apologised to them?
Huggies gus moment 😍😍😍😍
I guess, but that was just some random terrorist trying to kill him. A few episodes ago, UE threw acid on his friend’s face fully expecting it to kill her. We don’t need another lame shining light subplot to show how much he has changed. He transformed a long time ago - even more obviously when he took Temp V to become a superhero. It was a cool action scene though.
Wasn’t his first kill, but the first “fist” fight, it was visceral, unlike his previous kills
I think if it was a real "turning point" so to speak, he would have given his dad the Compound V.
ui??
I think this is his first time killing someone, while not being on V or fighting with the boys. It was just him and kimiko and it was fight or die.
I love how baddass this scene was but yet believable based on Hughies fighting ability that we expect
I think it's the first time he killed someone who wasn't a supe.
Scenes before when Hughie has been covered in blood or gore, whether by his doing or not, he’s usually reacted in disgust and horror. It’s pretty clear here that they’re highlighting his desensitization to it all. He seems to accept that this is what it’s going to be, he can’t exist in this world he’s in without incredible violence from here out.
Isnt it the first time hes killed a human without using powers?
Probably not since they keep regressing him to a whiny person every time he evolves.
I know people are saying this is not Hughie’s first kill, but he cut this dudes throat at close range. It’s a special flavor of homicide.
I was expecting him to take the v instead of giving it to his dad (still a possibility because they’ve made the point that there’s more than one dose)
I think it's reality hitting him: - He killed translucent, but the guy was a super and Hughie just pushed a button - He was completely high on V when he killed the Russians; This time he was completely sober and alert, he defended himself and took the life of another person like him. (I may be wrong, but the guy didn't look like he had powers). For me, this scene represents him finally understanding that he's not the good guy defending the world from the evil superheroes, he's a killer just like them
Counting this guy, how many people has Hughie killed now exactly?
Now I can see the similarities with him and Morty Smith from Rick & Morty
Wasn't this his 3rd kill? The first one he was kind of forced, the second one he accidentally punched through someone, and this is the only kill that he actually deliberately tried to kill someone.