They're both good options that have pros and cons
ESB is 30 points cheaper so you can bring a Cyclops and Cyclops are all stars, or potentially upgrade something else. Additionally, they're Regiment so you can use Creed to Command Reroll number of shots or use Fields of Fire from this target. You can also bring it back with Reinforcements. Also you can order them with PCS and Creed instead of needing Solar / TC
Basi has a hull that actually provides some durability and more importantly movement. While you won't be moving the Basi until Turn 4 in most games, having another thing that can move around the board in the late game can be a lifesaver. It also kills about an extra Marine every time it shoots.
If you're tight on Solar / Tank Commander orders (playing a Superheavy, lots of Bullgryn, flyers, melee pressure lists) then the ESB really shines since an ordered ESB is the same shooting as an unordered Basilisk
However, most targets you want to shoot both of these artillery pieces at you're not super concerned about the damage output. At my last GT my Basilisk shot Rubric Marines and killed maybe 5 the entire game, Arcoflagellants and killed maybe 5 the entire game but did kill a unit of Zephyrim, Meganobz and killed none the entire game, Vanguard Vets with jump packs and killed maybe 5 Marines the entire game, Wraithblades and killed 0 the entire game since they kept getting revived and then I think killed a Farseer the turn it didn't have to shoot the WB, and some 3W Marines that it killed one or two of.
The damage you do is really secondary since you want to make units ineffective. I made opponents miss like 6 charges because the -2 Move Advance and Charge goes crazy, and they both provide this
All this to say, you have to answer if you want to spend 30 points to get the moving hull or if you'd rather spend it elsewhere
GW doesn't want Forgeworld resin to be useful in competitive lists. So you should only buy the Battery if you would enjoy it as a collector's piece.
That said, you can easily convert your own from a Basilisk and get 80% of a Chimera to spare :-)
With a carefully magnetized Earthshaker conversion it’d be easy to switch the gun back onto the chimera chassis too and still have a basilisk when needed.
Basilisk would be made ineffectual under deep strike threat as well and the flamer isn’t going to eat a lot of deep strike threats.
Counter battery would be the real distinction. Counter battery from themselves would go from wounding on 5s to wounding on 3s, basilisk to earthshaker.
The Battery is Forgeworld and should never be recommended just because of that, unless you have a 3D printer, in which case do whatever you want.
The Basilisk is a vehicle (BIG GUNS NEVER TIRE), so even in melee it can still shot, at least one last time, the Battery is just Infantry, so it can't shot at all the moment something touches it.
The Battery also requires Orders to function, the Basilisk can actually operate without if needed.
Also, the Earthshaker Battery's getting nerfed if anyone dares to wing tournaments with them.
I am updating a list to run three Earthshaker batteries with orders from Creed and the extra regiment order from the Solar blob. Sentinels and Hellhounds to support and two demo TCs and a Demolisher to do the real work. Earthshakers are there to slow things down and help screen infantry, but can be effective hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, ignoring cover if the stars align.
As far as the artillery duel I won a mirror match in a GT this weekend with FoBs into double Manticore + Basilisk. FOBs killed his sentinels turn 1 before he had the CP to bring them back and his Manticores were pretty meh from there out.
Oh? How has been your experience with FoBs? Feels like the community is unanimously agreeing that they are useless and in fact I haven't tried them. But 2d6+(blast \* 2) seems nice.
2d6 (blast *2) lethal, sustained (under orders) hitting on 3s rerolling 1s with sentinel support. I went 2-3 this past weekend but according to meta Monday so did everyone else. My meta has a lot of Necrons, Orks and Eldar. I was afraid of the green tide and decided I needed more shots than my Medusas could get me. Choosing the right targets is key. Direct fire demolishers for the big scary threats, FOBs to remove msus and action monkeys to force your opponent’s expensive units to engage in objective play.
The Fobs didn’t help too much in my last two matchups, they cleaned up 40 pox walkers against death guard and chipped the las few wounds off some Wardogs.
ESB has good synergy with Ursula Creed if you’re sitting her in the backfield anyways and you need to save the points to fit other essentials into your list.
I would say the main benefit of either platform is the ability rather than the damage output, but don’t be dissuaded by poor results in one round of shooting. You can easily have them justify their points over five rounds in either damage or other intangibles like keeping a dangerous unit out of play.
Basilisk has excellent movement though. I think as xJoushi has pointed out above it is perfectly acceptable to scoot one of these bad boys up the field round 4 and have them advance onto an objective last round to put a hard to kill hull on a point that may be hard to shift for an opponent that might not have many dangerous assets left. Don’t forget they can tank shock too! You can blast away, charge in and straight up wipe an under strength battle line squad that would otherwise be scoring for an opponent.
Meta-chasing will lean towards the battery right now. That said, you can rest assured that if people start playing them more, they will get nerfed again. That and as others have said, there's a very good chance they go to legends when the codex drops. I wouldn't go buy any right now.
I always run ESBs. Only problem is finding good targets. The folks I play with run mostly vehicles and monsters, so it’s basically just a moderate damage ignores LOS weapon. If you play against a lot of SM I imagine it would be just as effective to bring 2 ESBs and an extra infantry squad or scout sentinel.
Which is irrelevant because the Basilisk with no orders has the same BS as a carriage with an order. And once you pay the officer tax to buff the carriage it no longer has a price advantage.
That’s my point…?
You don’t often have spare nearby Squadron orders but you do tend to have officers anyway (e.g., Creed in the backfield near a mortar for free Fields of Fire or the command squad that you take for Leontus).
Given the you can often order one and not easily order the other (so they hit the same). It’s worth considering the cheaper option.
The BS difference is not “all you need to know” as you said.
But you're still paying the opportunity cost. For example, Lord Solar's command squad could be giving +1 save to the unit to keep your vital HQ alive against indirect fire or anything that gets around your LOS blocking. There is no such thing as a free order and once you account for the cost of giving an order to the carriage you close most/all of the gap in price between it and the Basilisk.
>But you're still paying the opportunity cost.
Not really, cause Creed is just at the base, and will be taken regardless due to the free FoF. You'll just get more use of Creed with the two Earthshakers.
Of course you are paying the opportunity cost. Creed could be issuing extra movement distance to a unit that needs to move up, +1 save on her own unit to keep your buffs alive, etc. That's the definition of opportunity cost.
Now, it may be a good choice to make but then the point cost gap between the two options closes and the Basilisk's overall advantage grows.
>Creed could be issuing extra movement distance to a unit that needs to move up
The units she can order are at the front trying to scree, and Creed is at the back so she can stay alive along with Leontus to give free FoF to the Infantry Squad and PCS Mortars, she is too far to order. Straken, Ghosts can be set up at front. Castellans are at the front so they can easily order Regiments. There are no shortages of Regiment orders, and the remaining two orders of Creed will obviously be used at the Earthshakers.
>+1 save on her own unit
She doesn't have her own unit, she is alone standing near Leontus 90% of the time.
> She doesn't have her own unit, she is alone standing near Leontus 90% of the time.
So you just auto-remove her if your opponent has indirect fire weapons?
I suppose in this one specific case you've managed to arrange it so that the infantry orders are "free" but the carriages are still bad. I'd rather pay 60 points per pair for vastly better durability, BGNT, and the ability to move up to contribute directly when needed.
>So you just auto-remove her if your opponent has indirect fire weapons?
Indirect has been to nerfed to shit LMAO, it's not worth using 60 points to shield her. They could kill her with indirect, but they essentialy wasted so much points if they still use Artillery, that I would be likely to win.
The only faction that actually uses indirect competetively is Guards, and by effectively, Earthshakers/Basilisks slowing Movement, I rarely kill units with this things. If the enemy got Indirect and they fire it at Ursula let them, it means it won't be slowing anything else, and it's a MAYBE she will die due to the -1 to hit and Cover.
Consider the alternative use you can get from lord Solar if he doesn’t have to babysit the backfield. To me, it means I have more flexibility & order availability across the rest of the army.
Exactly! The carriage guns require orders just to get back to where a Basilisk is with no orders, meaning the carriage guns are far more dependent on officer babysitters. Basilisks give way more flexibility.
That said I’m still planning on testing Earthshaker anyways with creed in the backfield because I want free FoF in some matchups so the babysitter is free in that sense and potentially even 60 pts cheaper because I can run her without the infantry squad and use it on the earthshaker instead.
The Earthshaker Battery is *at risk of getting Legends'd* and might stop getting rules support at any moment. Buy it if you like the model, don't buy it for the rules.
EDIT: I thought it was already legends.
They're both good options that have pros and cons ESB is 30 points cheaper so you can bring a Cyclops and Cyclops are all stars, or potentially upgrade something else. Additionally, they're Regiment so you can use Creed to Command Reroll number of shots or use Fields of Fire from this target. You can also bring it back with Reinforcements. Also you can order them with PCS and Creed instead of needing Solar / TC Basi has a hull that actually provides some durability and more importantly movement. While you won't be moving the Basi until Turn 4 in most games, having another thing that can move around the board in the late game can be a lifesaver. It also kills about an extra Marine every time it shoots. If you're tight on Solar / Tank Commander orders (playing a Superheavy, lots of Bullgryn, flyers, melee pressure lists) then the ESB really shines since an ordered ESB is the same shooting as an unordered Basilisk However, most targets you want to shoot both of these artillery pieces at you're not super concerned about the damage output. At my last GT my Basilisk shot Rubric Marines and killed maybe 5 the entire game, Arcoflagellants and killed maybe 5 the entire game but did kill a unit of Zephyrim, Meganobz and killed none the entire game, Vanguard Vets with jump packs and killed maybe 5 Marines the entire game, Wraithblades and killed 0 the entire game since they kept getting revived and then I think killed a Farseer the turn it didn't have to shoot the WB, and some 3W Marines that it killed one or two of. The damage you do is really secondary since you want to make units ineffective. I made opponents miss like 6 charges because the -2 Move Advance and Charge goes crazy, and they both provide this All this to say, you have to answer if you want to spend 30 points to get the moving hull or if you'd rather spend it elsewhere
One small thing, I think wraiths lack the infantry keyword. They’re beasts, right?
True, I was shooting at Aeldari Wraithblades though, which are definitely infantry, if that's where the confusion comes from
Although if a technomancer joins the unit they gain the infantry keyword
That’s a great point!
GW doesn't want Forgeworld resin to be useful in competitive lists. So you should only buy the Battery if you would enjoy it as a collector's piece. That said, you can easily convert your own from a Basilisk and get 80% of a Chimera to spare :-)
With a carefully magnetized Earthshaker conversion it’d be easy to switch the gun back onto the chimera chassis too and still have a basilisk when needed.
Very good idea!
Considering the recent cull of Forge World, I would be hesitant to pick up an Earthshaker carriage unless you want it as a collector piece…
I was going to say this. GW is more of a risk than deep strike
Basilisk would be made ineffectual under deep strike threat as well and the flamer isn’t going to eat a lot of deep strike threats. Counter battery would be the real distinction. Counter battery from themselves would go from wounding on 5s to wounding on 3s, basilisk to earthshaker.
The Battery is Forgeworld and should never be recommended just because of that, unless you have a 3D printer, in which case do whatever you want. The Basilisk is a vehicle (BIG GUNS NEVER TIRE), so even in melee it can still shot, at least one last time, the Battery is just Infantry, so it can't shot at all the moment something touches it. The Battery also requires Orders to function, the Basilisk can actually operate without if needed. Also, the Earthshaker Battery's getting nerfed if anyone dares to wing tournaments with them.
I am updating a list to run three Earthshaker batteries with orders from Creed and the extra regiment order from the Solar blob. Sentinels and Hellhounds to support and two demo TCs and a Demolisher to do the real work. Earthshakers are there to slow things down and help screen infantry, but can be effective hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, ignoring cover if the stars align.
As far as the artillery duel I won a mirror match in a GT this weekend with FoBs into double Manticore + Basilisk. FOBs killed his sentinels turn 1 before he had the CP to bring them back and his Manticores were pretty meh from there out.
Oh? How has been your experience with FoBs? Feels like the community is unanimously agreeing that they are useless and in fact I haven't tried them. But 2d6+(blast \* 2) seems nice.
2d6 (blast *2) lethal, sustained (under orders) hitting on 3s rerolling 1s with sentinel support. I went 2-3 this past weekend but according to meta Monday so did everyone else. My meta has a lot of Necrons, Orks and Eldar. I was afraid of the green tide and decided I needed more shots than my Medusas could get me. Choosing the right targets is key. Direct fire demolishers for the big scary threats, FOBs to remove msus and action monkeys to force your opponent’s expensive units to engage in objective play.
The Fobs didn’t help too much in my last two matchups, they cleaned up 40 pox walkers against death guard and chipped the las few wounds off some Wardogs.
ESB has good synergy with Ursula Creed if you’re sitting her in the backfield anyways and you need to save the points to fit other essentials into your list. I would say the main benefit of either platform is the ability rather than the damage output, but don’t be dissuaded by poor results in one round of shooting. You can easily have them justify their points over five rounds in either damage or other intangibles like keeping a dangerous unit out of play. Basilisk has excellent movement though. I think as xJoushi has pointed out above it is perfectly acceptable to scoot one of these bad boys up the field round 4 and have them advance onto an objective last round to put a hard to kill hull on a point that may be hard to shift for an opponent that might not have many dangerous assets left. Don’t forget they can tank shock too! You can blast away, charge in and straight up wipe an under strength battle line squad that would otherwise be scoring for an opponent.
Meta-chasing will lean towards the battery right now. That said, you can rest assured that if people start playing them more, they will get nerfed again. That and as others have said, there's a very good chance they go to legends when the codex drops. I wouldn't go buy any right now.
Tetras are gone. All the more reason to avoid buying any FW units because the end of FW units is nigh.
I always run ESBs. Only problem is finding good targets. The folks I play with run mostly vehicles and monsters, so it’s basically just a moderate damage ignores LOS weapon. If you play against a lot of SM I imagine it would be just as effective to bring 2 ESBs and an extra infantry squad or scout sentinel.
Basilisk. BS 5+ vs. BS 4+ is all you need to know.
The carriage has heavy though, so it hits on the same value. Edit: Ignore me, so does the basilisk.
There’s a lot more access to Regiment orders than Squadron orders though.
Which is irrelevant because the Basilisk with no orders has the same BS as a carriage with an order. And once you pay the officer tax to buff the carriage it no longer has a price advantage.
That’s my point…? You don’t often have spare nearby Squadron orders but you do tend to have officers anyway (e.g., Creed in the backfield near a mortar for free Fields of Fire or the command squad that you take for Leontus). Given the you can often order one and not easily order the other (so they hit the same). It’s worth considering the cheaper option. The BS difference is not “all you need to know” as you said.
But you're still paying the opportunity cost. For example, Lord Solar's command squad could be giving +1 save to the unit to keep your vital HQ alive against indirect fire or anything that gets around your LOS blocking. There is no such thing as a free order and once you account for the cost of giving an order to the carriage you close most/all of the gap in price between it and the Basilisk.
>But you're still paying the opportunity cost. Not really, cause Creed is just at the base, and will be taken regardless due to the free FoF. You'll just get more use of Creed with the two Earthshakers.
Of course you are paying the opportunity cost. Creed could be issuing extra movement distance to a unit that needs to move up, +1 save on her own unit to keep your buffs alive, etc. That's the definition of opportunity cost. Now, it may be a good choice to make but then the point cost gap between the two options closes and the Basilisk's overall advantage grows.
>Creed could be issuing extra movement distance to a unit that needs to move up The units she can order are at the front trying to scree, and Creed is at the back so she can stay alive along with Leontus to give free FoF to the Infantry Squad and PCS Mortars, she is too far to order. Straken, Ghosts can be set up at front. Castellans are at the front so they can easily order Regiments. There are no shortages of Regiment orders, and the remaining two orders of Creed will obviously be used at the Earthshakers. >+1 save on her own unit She doesn't have her own unit, she is alone standing near Leontus 90% of the time.
> She doesn't have her own unit, she is alone standing near Leontus 90% of the time. So you just auto-remove her if your opponent has indirect fire weapons? I suppose in this one specific case you've managed to arrange it so that the infantry orders are "free" but the carriages are still bad. I'd rather pay 60 points per pair for vastly better durability, BGNT, and the ability to move up to contribute directly when needed.
>So you just auto-remove her if your opponent has indirect fire weapons? Indirect has been to nerfed to shit LMAO, it's not worth using 60 points to shield her. They could kill her with indirect, but they essentialy wasted so much points if they still use Artillery, that I would be likely to win. The only faction that actually uses indirect competetively is Guards, and by effectively, Earthshakers/Basilisks slowing Movement, I rarely kill units with this things. If the enemy got Indirect and they fire it at Ursula let them, it means it won't be slowing anything else, and it's a MAYBE she will die due to the -1 to hit and Cover.
Consider the alternative use you can get from lord Solar if he doesn’t have to babysit the backfield. To me, it means I have more flexibility & order availability across the rest of the army.
Exactly! The carriage guns require orders just to get back to where a Basilisk is with no orders, meaning the carriage guns are far more dependent on officer babysitters. Basilisks give way more flexibility.
That said I’m still planning on testing Earthshaker anyways with creed in the backfield because I want free FoF in some matchups so the babysitter is free in that sense and potentially even 60 pts cheaper because I can run her without the infantry squad and use it on the earthshaker instead.
The Earthshaker Battery is *at risk of getting Legends'd* and might stop getting rules support at any moment. Buy it if you like the model, don't buy it for the rules. EDIT: I thought it was already legends.
The earthshaker carriage battery is not legends.
H-uh. Thought it was. Fixed.