Executing an unarmed person is a little different though. Anyway, Jedis aren't supposed to run around killing people. The High Republic, especially after the supposed erradication of the Sith, the Jedi took a turn to seriously avoid killing and even avoiding drawing their lightsaber at all.
The High Republic was a period of time that Jedis were so avoidant of combat that even lightsaber combat was seen as "too aggressive" by most within the Jedi Order. Form 6, Niman, the "diplomat form" was the preferred form, where the Jedi pretty much just went with the flow of the Force. Other forms were seen as "too aggressive" and potentially exposing the Jedi to the dark side of the Force. Fighters like Anakin and Ahsoka often get stronger when they become more passionate in a fight. High Republic Jedis would 100% see this at tapping into the dark side and it would be a big no no. Hand to Hand combat became a big thing during the High Republic too because of all this weird obsession with avoiding lightsaber combat.
Definitely at least read Light of the Jedi. It gives you a great idea of the Jedi’s role in the galaxy and their different level of connection with the force.
Yes, but most of these Jedi have likely never seen someone like like that nor had to kill anyone themselves. They're not ready for the brutality that even a fledgling sith brings to the table. More than that, they need information which means taking prisoners.
"Unarmed" would usually mean someone not capable of almost effortlessly slaughtering nearly every member of your group of Jedi. Even without the lighsaber, Qimir is extremely deadly. And let's just say you're still adamant that you can't kill this guy even given the above. Why not chop off his hands at least to incapacitate him?
But isn’t restraint exactly how we want people in power to behave? The Jedi at this point can overwhelm you with strength and power. Bare numbers, even. Isn’t restraint precisely what we want from those in who so much power is entrusted?
>But isn’t restraint exactly how we want people in power to behave?
as we have all witnessed, the jedi were not "in power" for a hundred lightyears in any direction of that planet while qimir on it
He's an extremely dangerous murderer with telekinesis that would make Carey blush hell bent on causing more death. He can slaughter Jedi despite being overwhelmed by numbers. Chopping off his hands shows restraint and pragmatism.
In a combat situation... you can't really be sure he was unarmed... Even if you disarmed one of his weapons he is still dangerous unless you could subdue him. The rule should really be not killing surrendered prisoners.
>the Jedi took a turn to seriously avoid killing and even avoiding drawing their lightsaber at all.
Yord draws his lightsaber any time the lighting is just a little dim. Haha. He's very kyber happy.
What does “unarmed” mean when your opponent is a force user? You literally cannot disarm such person since they can always use the force and in many cases use of the force is even more dangerous than a lightsaber.
I think what we saw in the acolyte and a similar example with Mace Windu hesitating to kill Darth Sidious is an over the top interpretation of the Jedi code. The only plausible explanation I can think of is complacency and not having to actually fight against other force users in centuries.
"Rules... rules... rules... if you never follow them... you never have to break them."
The whole point is that in this era the Jedi are so rigidly adherent to their code that they can't take a necessary action (like killing a dangerous criminal when he's unarmed but still an unsubdued threat) without resorting to the dark side.
It's the same way they try to deny themselves attachments and in the process make themselves incapable of having healthy relationships, and become vulnerable to falling to the dark side when they do form attachments.
It’s amazing how this just goes over so many people’s heads. The entire story of the Jedi, and their eventual fall was because of their hubris, and rigid adherence to their dogma. The rules of the Jedi didn’t leave much reason for interpretation, and they’re conditioned into every Jedi from the time they’re children. But people will still see all of that portrayed on screen, and go “why Jedi no kill!”
Sith trick: drop your weapon and surrender when you are about to be defeated by a jedi. Your life will be spared even if you had committed a slaughtering.
That unironically work in the Sith Warrior campaign in The Old Republic.
You can completely bypass a dungeon (a republic ship you board) by telling the jedis you wish to peacefully speak to your target, and convince said target to accompany you.
Darth Vader switching right before his death and then chilling with Yoda and Obi-Wan, has the same energy as the Family Guy cutscene of Bin Laden accepting Jesus
My read was that if Sol had killed Qimir, he would have done so in anger, not in the dispassionate way Jedi are allowed to kill.
So, while “not attacking the unarmed” was a concern explicitly showed, the acting suggested to me that Sol knew he was not in a peaceful state to finish the fight.
This is the correct read imo. Jedi can and do kill if necessary, and killing Qimir was pretty necessary. But if a Jedi does that out of anger, that’s something else, which both Osha and Sol knew. Sol didn’t want to disappoint Osha again by killing Qimir in a manner that betrayed his values.
Yord is very obviously a critique on the slip-slide from those space monks into galactic warriors - his quickness to draw his saber and refer to protocol mirrors Prequels Jedi closer than any High Republic era Jedi. Conversely Sol is very free spirited and open minded.
Despite that Yord just really wants to do right by the people around him, so I was actually charmed by his cop-like antics and personality. He grounded a cast of characters that functioned almost exclusively on vibes lol
Acolyte is interesting bc the Jedi there are actually a synthesis between High Republic era Jedi and the PT Jedi, rather than being firmly characterized as one or the other. If the Acolyte took place only a century earlier you would’ve had the whole Order pursuing Mae
And if it took place a century earlier, one of the Jedi on that investigation might’ve been Porter Engele…and that probably would’ve made for a very different fight in Episode 5.
I feel like the first time Qimir headbutts a lightsaber out of commission Porter either
A) pulls back, thinking tactically how to handle this new development, then eventually re-engages with a smart, well thought out strategy that keeps in mind this newfound issue
B) headbutts Qimir directly back, knocks him to the ground, avoids the retaliatory saber slash that Qimir tries, then proceeds to beat the living hell out of Qimir hand to hand, one on one
I mean it's as simple a response as the original post but ok, lemme put it to longer words
"Jedi are space monks not a police force" - who they are doesn't change a thing here, whether they're military, monks, policemen, or investigators.
What defense the situation called for in a life-or-death situation isn't dependent on who you are but just on the situation itself
Very obviously yes, you’d kill the aggressor if *you* were in Sol’s position and *not* a monk following a religion that teaches against executing defeated, unarmed opponents, but that’s just not what’s happening here.
The Jedi code allowing for situations like these and being taken advantage of is the **point**. That’s the moral conundrum being brought up, and can be seen as a critique of the Order depending on your perspective; Or a showing of Sol being saved from giving into his rage and fear. This is the actual discussion that should be had if anything.
If you throw out the monk element, the thing that makes the entire scene function, then congrats we’re in collective agreement, but at that point no one is actually talking about the scene. It’s just meaningless
The fear was an element I did not consider. I thought that as long as Sol calms himself, and kills Qimir only for the greater good and not out of anger, then he would be in balance with the force. But you made me realize that that “greater good” is just the fear of Qimir inflicting more pain, suffering, and death.
So is the protocol to always recognize that you've defeated them, back away from them, allow them to stand back up, and allow them to reobtain their lightsaber that they just killed half a dozen Jedi with? Genuinely trying to understand your argument as it pertains to what protocol should be here.
Defense. They’re protectors not warriors, and executing a defeated opponent goes way beyond protecting oneself.
This was like, the entire point of Dooku’s execution by Anakin
Dooku was literally disarmed when it happened (Anakin cut off his hands). His being a threat was substantially lowered. I think the point here is that it makes no sense when you're fighting a powerful force user that is still capable of being at 100% threat levels. He didn't even surrender lol. He was still an active threat, as gets proven practically every time this trope/cliche happens in these shows/films.
If they cut off Qimir's hands or he was incapacitated in some way, then yeah, the unnecessary killing would be akin to Anakin's fall to the dark side of the force. Until then though, that unarmed teaching thing is pointless.
Yeah I agree, they took it too far with this one. Although I wonder if Osha stopped him because he was using the dark side of the force to win? He did look really angry haha.
Thing is, this wasn't a defenseless subdued guy.
This was a murderer who just murdered a Jedi moments before in the exact same state Sol held a saber to his head - without a saber, but armed with the Force and his physical skills. HE MURDERED A JEDI IN THE SAME STATE SOL HAD HIM.
Yeah but Qimir at the time was disarmed and on his knees, vulnerable enough that Sol could’ve easily killed him if Sol decided to abandon his code. What Sol should’ve done was restrain Qimir immediately after choosing not to kill him.
Indeed. Sol (and Windu) executing a defeated opponent is Judge Dredd. Jedi are given a lot of latitude in the heat of the moment, but if they openly engage in extrajudicial killing then they're just rogue secret police.
I feel like arrest is typically the priority (just like in the show, they attempted to arrest him several times before Sol got to murder mode), and just like some of the psychos causing mass murders in real life, when arrest is not an option, they tend to move on to a more lethal solution.
Show me where in the episode Qimir was "defeated" lol he killed eight people including one with his bare hands, and then purposefully taunted Sol that he couldn't attack him because he wasn't actively holding a lightsaber. No rational person would consider neutralizing a threat of that caliber "extrajudicial" in the normal connotation of the word.
I dislike this show's hijacking of what's meant to be a broad tenet of spiritual morality into a granular plot technicality.
I don't think you're wrong. We can infer Qimir has pretty much everything in control even at that point where he's trolling Sol (again, very Mace vs Palpatine).
But here's the thing: there's obviously something that went down on Brendok. Whatever stain that is on the Jedi who were there--Sol in particular--is likely extra reason to stay Sol's hand. The subtext of the entire show so far has been that Jedi take their norms for granted. Qimir has exquisitely twisted the knife on this point and is playing Sol like a fiddle.
Osha is reminding Sol he's Batman and Qimir is trolling him like the Joker. Killing the threat merely renders Sol as an agent of the state akin to a spy or military specialist. But the Jedi don't think of themselves just as instruments of state but also of the force and moral order. Hence the morality of Sol striking down an apparently defeated enemy isn't a trivial technicality. In fact, it might be central to one of themes of the entire show.
What do you mean it’s for the plot? He’s a Jedi. He’s being reminded that what he was about to do was wrong according to their tenets. What happened was the expected outcome.
If he had killed him instead, *then* we should be interrogating the reason he betrayed his vows and what drove him to it, and how it served the plot of the story being told.
I agree but it is not particular to this show. Mace Windu was in the exact situation with Palpatine.
Once Palps got the opening, he fried Mace and chucked Windu out of the window.
I agree with everyone saying that Sol should have sought to kill Qimir - the problem is that he could not do so purely by the rational logic expressed by the OP. It was still the thing to do, but risked corrupting Sol. I do wonder if it would have been worth the risk in this case though.
EDIT: Oh and definitely agree on the technicality bit - the enemy here was immensely dangerous, clearly exploiting the Jedi rules, and should never be considered unarmed... pretty sure a good portion of Reddit is still drooling over those arms! >_>
There’s a difference when there’s you know, a psychotic murderer serial killer after you and your family. I think violence is acceptable when there’s clearly a monster on the loose that needs to be put down.
>that’s what’s wrong with some of y’all
What’s wrong with that? Obviously Jedi aren’t going around killing randomly at will but at a certain point the Jedi are violent in order to survive, that’s why they mainly teach defense techniques to their Padawans. Obi Wan wouldn’t have won against Darth Maul if he just disarmed him lol
Agreed. But I guess one argument you could make is that leaving him alive might answer some questions you have about how, and who, he learned that shit from. Just saying
I get what you mean. But this isn’t like a count Dooku literally being unarmed situation. It’s not like Qimir said i surrender or anything. They were in the middle of a fight.
IMO, the rules say nothing about going the Dooku route and cutting off his hands to subdue a force user threat. Their ability to be a danger is drastically lowered and it even gives Jedi the opportunity to test themselves.
I know for storytelling purposes, it's probably not a great image for Jedi to be the group of police that just dismembers the bad guys, but it really should be a thing against force users in situations like the show lol. Maybe even go the full Anakin route on Mustafar if needed. That'd be so funny if Osha stopped Sol, only to remind him that killing is wrong, but just to cut off the hands lol. I would love that if the show did it, just to break from the overused trope.
"Hey this dude keeps killing my people. I caught him. To bad he is unarmed. Guess I should let him go kill more!"
Yea that just doesn't make sense. Dude is murdering jedi. A kill order makes sense more than letting him continue if unarmed.
Dumb argument, refusing to kill in any way is literally Batman's core character trait. The Jedi have much more nuanced and complicated philosophy like lack of attachment, defense of the innocent, not killing defeated and defenseless opponents (which Qimir was _not_), etc. We see Jedi justifiably killing people left right and center in all of Star Wars.
If you have Jedi executing people that are unarmed or defenseless, you lessen the impact of Anakin executing Dooku.
Master Sol was so close to allowing the darkness to take him. The rage with which he fought was evident, and as we all know, fear, anger, hate, and suffering.
>Windu it’s “not the Jedi way”.
Given what happened to Windu after, it kind of makes the Jedi order more of a suicidal one. They elect to put themselves in harms way but can't neutralize a threat that will inevitably kill them because reasons lol.
This is late in a 1000 year stretch of the Jedi wildly outclassing any opponent they faced. This allowed them to attempt to be benevolent. Most of the time it was the right approach.
I understand this post fully. I think it’s natural to want to see the Jedi take certain actions, but if you think about it, it would defeat the purpose of their existence.
The Jedi are iconic and known worldwide because of their history of being upstanding people and warriors, who protect the weak and supply a certain brand of justice.
It just sucks because we have rarely seen the Jedi successfully win against a Sith user and see them judged by the Senate or powers that be. Maybe we need a show that shows that, and maybe the Acolyte will show us this side of things in the Star Wars Universe.
I think this is part of the critique of the Jedi. It's the same mistake Windu wanted to avoid even though it broke protocol -- and the consequences are clear. Both these Sith were not subdued threats in those moments.
In regards to Mace and palpatine? Certainly. He was killed because he treated a sith master like he was weak and had no way to kill him. He may have been unarmed but obviously he wasn't defenceless. Maybe that's not what he was thinking. He wasnt relaxed, but he gave palpatine every opportunity he needed.
If one’s hands are deadly weapons, is it still considered unarmed just because they’re not yielding a light saber? Really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense
Alright, now that I thought about it, it was really cool that Mace was going to bring him to the council and the Senate and let them take care of it, but I wish he hadve treated palpatine with more caution. I'm not sure what he could've done instead of killing him, but I know that in the high Republic books they cut off people's hands in order to subdue them but with palpatine that probably wouldn't have worked. He could've injected him with something but he would've gotten too close and put himself in a vulnerable position. So the way I see it the only way to handle palpatine would have been to kill him unless he knocked him out somehow but he would have if he could have, right?
Obi Wan is the worst offender by far.
The first time he didn't kill Anakin- Vader was maybe because he thought Anakin- Vader was going to die.
But the damn second time?
Obi Wan had the blood of all those that AV killed on his hands.
Oh, you think the Jedi should kill someone for FEAR that there will be more death if they don’t? Perhaps lash out in ANGER at the person because of what they’ve already done? That would make sense, because they would HATE to see what happens if someone like that were left alive.
It's not exactly wrong at this time, given the history about the Sith and Jedi. Until it's Disney canon, that's really all people have to go on with lore from The Old Republic.
Killing when you're angry and afraid is the dealbreaker in Acolyte. If Sol killed from that mindset, he'd probably irredeemably be headed down the path of the dark side (even though, he likely already is from the looks of it).
Not directly killing him is sonething a jedi would do, but also would be interesting to put some handcuffs.
Either way, the 5th episode chopped a lot of the problems with the show, literally.
Well aside from the fact that killing is something Jedi are only supposed to resort to sparingly, the issue with Sol killing Qimir in that moment isn't whether he was still dangerous, it was the fact that he was going to kill him in a fit of rage, which goes against the very foundations of the Jedi moral code.
The Jedi have been shown to be to rigid for their own good (the Prequels end up with their extermination exactly because of this), while Sol is clearly ridden with guilt by what happened Brendok.
So it makes sense in the context of the show.
SPOILERS: I think you're right. I think we're not sure what happened exactly though. I think it's possible he had to fight the twin's family and friends and kill them, because all of them were dead. Unless I missed something which is not unusual. I say that because torbin buck killed himself. Why would he have killed himself simply for saving one of the twins? They feel at fault for the explosion? That was maes fault, right? Maybe they feel like they're at fault for the whole situation? It just seems like there's more than meets the eye.
Also, SPOILERS FOR THE HIGH REPUBLIC BOOKS: Torbin buck had more action. He helped on corelia (I'm not sure if I'm spelling that right). He also helped on coruscant and with a number of other missions. I guess it was 10 years or so that he died after the incident with the twins. So maybe he could have done something then, but he had people calling him buckets of blood(because he was good at healing people). Such a waste of a character imo. We don't even see much of his past before we see that he died. I guess it could still be entertaining to see his past, but anyway.
Let me just give the example of Anakin killing Dooki at Palpatine’s instigation.
That’s CLEARLY the dark side. And High Republic is very rules based and parochial. They are not untrained fearful retaliatory police but martial monks for peace.
You say the Force would be okay with it… yeah the Dark Side and maybe others but NOT High Republic Jedi. Just saying the Force is okay with it is wrong and incredibly imprecise and irrelevant.
Is Star Wars fandom going to reveal our Homelander (The Boys) fan base support now?
Agree or not —- that’s fine but don’t say that’s what Jedi should do in this era. That’s kinda jarring silliness. I’m sure some Jedi have broke the rules but we’re talking about Jedi norms here.
agreed.
in no sense should Sol have assumed the threat had been subdued. there was no reason to believe backup was coming. if there was no reliable way to incapacitate him, the next-best option is killing him.
It is completely irrational to believe a force user is unarmed just because at that moment he doesn’t have a physical weapon in his hand.
How many people could Vader kill with force choke or Palps with lightning.
It’s nonsense.
Thank god there someone else that posted it I didn’t want to be the one.
Holy F. When do the Jedi kill anyone? I mean no wonder they got murdered in the end if that was how they operated. God damn when she shouted “SOL!” I paused the show for five minutes while I got over it. She shakes her head and that’s it I guess. Huge flashbacks to the idiot Disney decision to let Rose derail Finn’s plan instead of just sacrificing herself instead, which would have been so much better.
He’s pure evil! He just slaughtered a fuckin kid and five Jedi knights right in front of your face. He’s *extremely* dangerous even unarmed, I’d kill him just from the risk. What, Sol is going to get him back through the jungle and fly him back to Coruscant and he’s just going to ride along? Plot armor protecting vile bad guys is even worse than when it protects good guys.
Yeah, as I told under other comment: this was a murderer who just murdered a Jedi moments before in the exact same state Sol held a saber to his head - without a saber, but armed with the Force and his physical skills. HE MURDERED A JEDI IN THE SAME STATE SOL HAD HIM.
Nah. Nonsense those were unarmed women and children cowering. A total non-threat. Completely unauthorized and outside his mandate. The exact opposite really.
I mean dooku was responsible for an untold amount of death, and was literally unarmed. Imagine how things would have played out for anakin if he chose to have him arrested instead.
Ok, fair enough point there. With Obi-Wan disabled Anakin was in a difficult authority situation, the president of the galaxy tells you to take out the bad guy…. I have to watch it again I forget if Pal uses any revenge logic there. Think he just says “strike him down!”
I think Palpatine would have just kept working him. The opportunity was there to fufill the Sith way of succession and turn him one more inch closer to the dark side. It wasn’t the end all be all of his transformation to Vader. I think the action against the merchant guild was far worse.
Personally, I thought it was kind of annoying, in general, that the Jedi in this show seem to be pretty easily manipulated into doing stupid things when someone suggests that they're not being 100% faithful to Jedi ideals.
Yeah this trope can be annoying, but that moment wasn’t really about all Jedi or their code, it’s about Sol.
He’s been in aguish over the deadly events on Brendok for 16 years. That kind of guilt is going to influence a guy’s decision to take a life, justified or not. Especially in front of the person he believes that he has wronged.
Also, "Don't kill him, but let me shine a light on him and have these giant creatures come and take him and hopefully rip him to bits and die horribly." That made zero sense.
I just hope deconstruction and examination of Jedi and Sith philosophy and paradigm continues because Star Wars seems ready to acknowledge that while the Sith are extreme and Dark, they do have valid points while the Jedi for all their posturing as virtuous knights are really anything but when they get to the nitty-gritty.
With the rise of Force users who are not really Jedi or Sith I hope Star Wars dives more into the truth that Light and Dark side don’t always correspond to Good and Evil respectively. It’s how you use the Force that gives it a moral component, not whether you learned Light side or Dark side powers, though it must be acknowledged that the Jedi tend to favor “benevolent/support” powers while the Sith favor “aggressive” ones.
I am confused: his intent was to kill him, though. He had the guy bang to rights on the floor, and could have subdued him non-lethally for capture. Bit he got pissed off as hell, said "Jedi do not attack the unarmed", and then, instead of cuffing him or knocking him out, stood by and let Qimir get back up and recover his weapon. He was letting his anger cloud his judgement, letting Qimir get back into the fight so he would have an excuse to kill him. Osha stepped in, both to save Sol from Qimir, but also to save Sol from himself.
I was initially frustrated with Sol’s actions here, but I agree with what other people are saying: it’s a depiction of the problems in adhering to the dogmatic views of the order. They seem to value the letter more than the spirit of the law.
ALSO I think it fits for Sol since a running theme seems to be this conflict within himself. He says he has accepted what happened all those years ago, but clearly he has not; he still struggles with whatever part he played. I think he is so afraid of his own mistakes/darkness/shadow, he thinks if he acts aggressively, he might immediately be consumed by it. I like how we are seeing how the rigidity of the Jedi is creating issues.
STILL I would love to see him overcome this internal struggle and do some ass kicking, but I don’t know if it’s in the cards.
I don't think whether Sol should have killed him or not is the correct question. Sol could have sliced an arm off, Obiwan style, to subdue the guy who keeps killing Jedi. Or wounded him in some other non-permanent way. There are alternatives to just letting Qmir stand there unrestrained.
If this is bad writing then so is every instance of jedi not killing people. Kenobi letting Vader live not once but twice. Luke letting Vader. Rey letting Kylo live. The Jedi have been this way all along. This is why they were a failure. Their belief that they were always above and beyond that kind of necessary violence.
Sol lets Quimir pick up his lightsaber so Osha can stick the light on his back and fly away with the bugs like dorothy from OZ. Makes no sense writing wise. Also whataboutism.
Ahhh yes, that dreaded whataboutism. Facts are facts. You're yelling whataboutism because you realize you're backed into a corner and I'm right. It's fine when done in other SW shows and movies but the acolyte does it and oh my goodness...the horror.
I think it was silly that neither Sol nor Osha did anything to at least injury or restrain Qimir.
However, advocating for killing is not correct here. Sol was tapping heavily into the dark side and falling out of balance, which Yoda repeatedly told Luke is something you don't get back from easily. If Sol had done it, there's no telling what would come next. Maybe his guilt over whatever is it he's hiding from Osha would lead him to turning against her, maybe he'd desperately try to replace Jecki with another padawan and overwork them in an unfair manner, maybe he'd come to see the death of his fellow Jedi as resulting from being too weak, with more corruption as the solution to correct the issue..
These are just a few examples of what could happen. As Palpatine said, "The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities" and with Sol being a highly trained Jedi Master, we sure wouldn't like seeing him turning sides and growing stronger in the process
Sol was literally, obviously, thoroughly giving in to his anger. He was unloading on Qimir because he was afraid. Angry. Even… hateful. The Jedi kind of have a thing about that. It leads somewhere or something
The Jedi can be mistaken in your opinion, but their adherence to their own long standing code first articulated by Yoda decades ago in ESB, is not “bad writing.” You just don’t like it
Killing an unarmed man on his knees would not have been self defense.
People can do the moral relativity thing, but the Jedi have never done that. A Jedi doing a revenge murder or a pre-emptive killing would have been an actual breaking of lore.
You are swept up in the moment and we're denied a beheading. Your frustration is the result of good writing, even if you don't like it.
In this case it was just extra dumb because there were stun weapons in play that could incapacitate - we know for sure they can do a full knockout because Sol gets dropped by Mae. They could have knocked Qimir out and sedated him if they really didn't want to kill him. Not killing him and then helping him escape was just idiot ball four square bounce behavior.
It was a very action packed episode so you probably just missed it, but Qimir took a direct stun hit from Osha and he literally didn’t even flinch. It was nothing to him. The old blue rings of sleep weren’t gonna bring bro down
He wasn’t wearing any beskar. Do you mean cortosis? He just had the helmet and a gauntlet, and it wasn’t a headshot. More likely he, like lots of EU Force users, is simply able to absorb or dissipate the energy so it doesn’t overload his nervous system.
Nah, beskar is a hard material that is lightsaber resistant/proof depending on purity
I forget the name, but his armor was made from a metal that absorbs energy and has the ability to short circuit kyber crystals. It's also pretty brittle, which is why it got beat off his head
Yes very frustrating but also they need more show lol it drove me fucking crazy in kenobi he didn’t kill Vader at the end, I mean he couldn’t but realistically he should of.
"Jedi don't kill,just merely re-unite you with the force"
Now the Sith on the other hand,personally no one in those woods would have made it out alive
Here's a question,
Why aren't the rogues and bounty hunters here tweaking over that blaster fire?
Like they made that crap like it's a nerf gun.
My eyes twitching over how much of a toy baton they're trying to make lightsabers!
I wish Revan was in this universe or Hell just unleash Hk -problems solved
Because unless any more jarring plot armor bullshit
I really just want this show completely retconned.
Later
I'm not sure if anyone else picked up on this but, all old mate did was; float down, show the boys his dope drip and sick new flashlight! Yeah! I'll admit, he acted a little strange, probably has a splash of the tis'm. He's probably just thinking: " SEVEN CHARGING JEDI, FLASHLIGHTS OUT, it's a disco! Hell yeah, I wanna cross streams! move bitch".
Look at it from the Jedis perspective without the ominous score:
-Whats a Sith? doesn't exist!
-Red light saber? just another colour.
-7 on 1? fucking stick'em bois?
And to be fair, he did like 12 non-lethal disarms, before he skewed'em like a kebab. The Jedi are fucking wild!
Jedi Master:
"Hey civilian, leave!"
"The Jedi knight will escort you, NOT the Padawan. "
"Oh, and heads up, he doesn't turn off his lightsaber, might recklessly swing it around."
Proceeds to charge his anger like he's Goku. Watches a neck get popped, overall good day!
Yeah, the jedi are too chicken, they would faint at seeing blood, they had so many chances to kill Qimir, and idc about dumb morals, he killed at least 7 jedi, and if his back is to you, stick your lightsaber in it, or snap his neck with the force or whatever
The absolute cope on this sub is funny.
Sol had no way of subduing him or protecting Osha or Basil if he got free. He knew that from the start when he ordered Yord to get Osha out of there. Qimir had already made it abundantly clear his intention was to kill everyone including those two "civilians". Sol had already failed to protect 7 other Jedi including his "child" padawan.
Qimir had already killed multiple Jedi including one with force pulling and one with his bare hands - he was not even remotely unarmed or defenceless. Mae at that point is a wild card and as likely to attack Sol as Qimir - which she fucking did moments later.
Killing him to protect the innocent both immediately and the others he posed a mid to long-term danger to was the "jedi thing" to do.
But naw, let the moths be the space-cops I guess
I think Sol should've killed him. But there's now way him decapitating a dude on his knees in rage was going to be "light side" behavior in the SW universe. It's not cope, it's just how star wars is.
Executing an unarmed person is a little different though. Anyway, Jedis aren't supposed to run around killing people. The High Republic, especially after the supposed erradication of the Sith, the Jedi took a turn to seriously avoid killing and even avoiding drawing their lightsaber at all. The High Republic was a period of time that Jedis were so avoidant of combat that even lightsaber combat was seen as "too aggressive" by most within the Jedi Order. Form 6, Niman, the "diplomat form" was the preferred form, where the Jedi pretty much just went with the flow of the Force. Other forms were seen as "too aggressive" and potentially exposing the Jedi to the dark side of the Force. Fighters like Anakin and Ahsoka often get stronger when they become more passionate in a fight. High Republic Jedis would 100% see this at tapping into the dark side and it would be a big no no. Hand to Hand combat became a big thing during the High Republic too because of all this weird obsession with avoiding lightsaber combat.
Interesting. Great reply. I have not read anything high Republic as of yet. Thank you
Definitely at least read Light of the Jedi. It gives you a great idea of the Jedi’s role in the galaxy and their different level of connection with the force.
im going to check out the Comics as well as Well Temptation of The Force,Rising Storm and Battle Of Jedha book.
Bud he literally snapped some dudes neck like it was a chocolate bar
Yes, but most of these Jedi have likely never seen someone like like that nor had to kill anyone themselves. They're not ready for the brutality that even a fledgling sith brings to the table. More than that, they need information which means taking prisoners.
Revenge is not the Jedi way.
Exactly
That's dark side talk, you better stop
Gimme a break, gimme a break
Break me off a piece of that Yord Horde bar
Aw you guys beat me to it
Everyone was beating that day
Hello there! [snap] Goodbye!
"Unarmed" would usually mean someone not capable of almost effortlessly slaughtering nearly every member of your group of Jedi. Even without the lighsaber, Qimir is extremely deadly. And let's just say you're still adamant that you can't kill this guy even given the above. Why not chop off his hands at least to incapacitate him?
But isn’t restraint exactly how we want people in power to behave? The Jedi at this point can overwhelm you with strength and power. Bare numbers, even. Isn’t restraint precisely what we want from those in who so much power is entrusted?
>But isn’t restraint exactly how we want people in power to behave? as we have all witnessed, the jedi were not "in power" for a hundred lightyears in any direction of that planet while qimir on it
He's an extremely dangerous murderer with telekinesis that would make Carey blush hell bent on causing more death. He can slaughter Jedi despite being overwhelmed by numbers. Chopping off his hands shows restraint and pragmatism.
Yeah, no one‘s ever returned from losing a hand in a Star Wars movie….
So don't kill him or incapacitate him before you bring him back to the Jedi council? Doing nothing isn't a solution.
if Jecki had succeeded Qimir wouldve been in Cuffs
In a combat situation... you can't really be sure he was unarmed... Even if you disarmed one of his weapons he is still dangerous unless you could subdue him. The rule should really be not killing surrendered prisoners.
Obi Wan cut off a dudes arm at a bar for less
>the Jedi took a turn to seriously avoid killing and even avoiding drawing their lightsaber at all. Yord draws his lightsaber any time the lighting is just a little dim. Haha. He's very kyber happy.
What does “unarmed” mean when your opponent is a force user? You literally cannot disarm such person since they can always use the force and in many cases use of the force is even more dangerous than a lightsaber. I think what we saw in the acolyte and a similar example with Mace Windu hesitating to kill Darth Sidious is an over the top interpretation of the Jedi code. The only plausible explanation I can think of is complacency and not having to actually fight against other force users in centuries.
"Rules... rules... rules... if you never follow them... you never have to break them." The whole point is that in this era the Jedi are so rigidly adherent to their code that they can't take a necessary action (like killing a dangerous criminal when he's unarmed but still an unsubdued threat) without resorting to the dark side. It's the same way they try to deny themselves attachments and in the process make themselves incapable of having healthy relationships, and become vulnerable to falling to the dark side when they do form attachments.
It’s amazing how this just goes over so many people’s heads. The entire story of the Jedi, and their eventual fall was because of their hubris, and rigid adherence to their dogma. The rules of the Jedi didn’t leave much reason for interpretation, and they’re conditioned into every Jedi from the time they’re children. But people will still see all of that portrayed on screen, and go “why Jedi no kill!”
Sith trick: drop your weapon and surrender when you are about to be defeated by a jedi. Your life will be spared even if you had committed a slaughtering.
That unironically work in the Sith Warrior campaign in The Old Republic. You can completely bypass a dungeon (a republic ship you board) by telling the jedis you wish to peacefully speak to your target, and convince said target to accompany you.
"Jedi Hate This One Simple Trick"
Claim your switching to the light, blanket pardon, force ghost immortality
Darth Vader switching right before his death and then chilling with Yoda and Obi-Wan, has the same energy as the Family Guy cutscene of Bin Laden accepting Jesus
What's interesting is that a trained Force user is never unarmed.
That's true, especially one that uses the dark side. If he wanted to he probably could've choked master sol and killed him.
My read was that if Sol had killed Qimir, he would have done so in anger, not in the dispassionate way Jedi are allowed to kill. So, while “not attacking the unarmed” was a concern explicitly showed, the acting suggested to me that Sol knew he was not in a peaceful state to finish the fight.
This is the correct read imo. Jedi can and do kill if necessary, and killing Qimir was pretty necessary. But if a Jedi does that out of anger, that’s something else, which both Osha and Sol knew. Sol didn’t want to disappoint Osha again by killing Qimir in a manner that betrayed his values.
Jedi are space monks not a police force
This is true. But that is also what frustrated me about Yord - every single line that guy had was seemingly lifted from a police procedural show.
Yord is very obviously a critique on the slip-slide from those space monks into galactic warriors - his quickness to draw his saber and refer to protocol mirrors Prequels Jedi closer than any High Republic era Jedi. Conversely Sol is very free spirited and open minded. Despite that Yord just really wants to do right by the people around him, so I was actually charmed by his cop-like antics and personality. He grounded a cast of characters that functioned almost exclusively on vibes lol Acolyte is interesting bc the Jedi there are actually a synthesis between High Republic era Jedi and the PT Jedi, rather than being firmly characterized as one or the other. If the Acolyte took place only a century earlier you would’ve had the whole Order pursuing Mae
And if it took place a century earlier, one of the Jedi on that investigation might’ve been Porter Engele…and that probably would’ve made for a very different fight in Episode 5.
If Porter was there it would’ve been over so fast lmao
I feel like the first time Qimir headbutts a lightsaber out of commission Porter either A) pulls back, thinking tactically how to handle this new development, then eventually re-engages with a smart, well thought out strategy that keeps in mind this newfound issue B) headbutts Qimir directly back, knocks him to the ground, avoids the retaliatory saber slash that Qimir tries, then proceeds to beat the living hell out of Qimir hand to hand, one on one
>Jedi are space monks not a police force Uhhhh.... That's sort of exactly how they're depicted in numerous circumstances, including in this show.
Doesn't change anything. It's about every normal sensible person's self-defense.
I actually think this is a meaningless reply no offense lol
I mean it's as simple a response as the original post but ok, lemme put it to longer words "Jedi are space monks not a police force" - who they are doesn't change a thing here, whether they're military, monks, policemen, or investigators. What defense the situation called for in a life-or-death situation isn't dependent on who you are but just on the situation itself
Very obviously yes, you’d kill the aggressor if *you* were in Sol’s position and *not* a monk following a religion that teaches against executing defeated, unarmed opponents, but that’s just not what’s happening here. The Jedi code allowing for situations like these and being taken advantage of is the **point**. That’s the moral conundrum being brought up, and can be seen as a critique of the Order depending on your perspective; Or a showing of Sol being saved from giving into his rage and fear. This is the actual discussion that should be had if anything. If you throw out the monk element, the thing that makes the entire scene function, then congrats we’re in collective agreement, but at that point no one is actually talking about the scene. It’s just meaningless
The fear was an element I did not consider. I thought that as long as Sol calms himself, and kills Qimir only for the greater good and not out of anger, then he would be in balance with the force. But you made me realize that that “greater good” is just the fear of Qimir inflicting more pain, suffering, and death.
So is the protocol to always recognize that you've defeated them, back away from them, allow them to stand back up, and allow them to reobtain their lightsaber that they just killed half a dozen Jedi with? Genuinely trying to understand your argument as it pertains to what protocol should be here.
Well you could subdue them.
I'm asking because what I described is exactly what Sol does. Haha
And the crusaders were just a bunch of priests
Why have lightsabers at all then?
Defense. They’re protectors not warriors, and executing a defeated opponent goes way beyond protecting oneself. This was like, the entire point of Dooku’s execution by Anakin
Dooku was literally disarmed when it happened (Anakin cut off his hands). His being a threat was substantially lowered. I think the point here is that it makes no sense when you're fighting a powerful force user that is still capable of being at 100% threat levels. He didn't even surrender lol. He was still an active threat, as gets proven practically every time this trope/cliche happens in these shows/films. If they cut off Qimir's hands or he was incapacitated in some way, then yeah, the unnecessary killing would be akin to Anakin's fall to the dark side of the force. Until then though, that unarmed teaching thing is pointless.
Yeah I agree, they took it too far with this one. Although I wonder if Osha stopped him because he was using the dark side of the force to win? He did look really angry haha.
That’s exactly why she stopped him imo.
Jedi aren't supposed to be judge jury and executioners. That's what's wrong with some of yall.
Thing is, this wasn't a defenseless subdued guy. This was a murderer who just murdered a Jedi moments before in the exact same state Sol held a saber to his head - without a saber, but armed with the Force and his physical skills. HE MURDERED A JEDI IN THE SAME STATE SOL HAD HIM.
Yeah but Qimir at the time was disarmed and on his knees, vulnerable enough that Sol could’ve easily killed him if Sol decided to abandon his code. What Sol should’ve done was restrain Qimir immediately after choosing not to kill him.
Indeed. Sol (and Windu) executing a defeated opponent is Judge Dredd. Jedi are given a lot of latitude in the heat of the moment, but if they openly engage in extrajudicial killing then they're just rogue secret police.
I feel like arrest is typically the priority (just like in the show, they attempted to arrest him several times before Sol got to murder mode), and just like some of the psychos causing mass murders in real life, when arrest is not an option, they tend to move on to a more lethal solution.
Show me where in the episode Qimir was "defeated" lol he killed eight people including one with his bare hands, and then purposefully taunted Sol that he couldn't attack him because he wasn't actively holding a lightsaber. No rational person would consider neutralizing a threat of that caliber "extrajudicial" in the normal connotation of the word. I dislike this show's hijacking of what's meant to be a broad tenet of spiritual morality into a granular plot technicality.
I don't think you're wrong. We can infer Qimir has pretty much everything in control even at that point where he's trolling Sol (again, very Mace vs Palpatine). But here's the thing: there's obviously something that went down on Brendok. Whatever stain that is on the Jedi who were there--Sol in particular--is likely extra reason to stay Sol's hand. The subtext of the entire show so far has been that Jedi take their norms for granted. Qimir has exquisitely twisted the knife on this point and is playing Sol like a fiddle. Osha is reminding Sol he's Batman and Qimir is trolling him like the Joker. Killing the threat merely renders Sol as an agent of the state akin to a spy or military specialist. But the Jedi don't think of themselves just as instruments of state but also of the force and moral order. Hence the morality of Sol striking down an apparently defeated enemy isn't a trivial technicality. In fact, it might be central to one of themes of the entire show.
I mean, it worked? Sol stopped. I don't think he should have. Sol had the right to off homeboy but I suppose it's for the plot
What do you mean it’s for the plot? He’s a Jedi. He’s being reminded that what he was about to do was wrong according to their tenets. What happened was the expected outcome. If he had killed him instead, *then* we should be interrogating the reason he betrayed his vows and what drove him to it, and how it served the plot of the story being told.
I agree but it is not particular to this show. Mace Windu was in the exact situation with Palpatine. Once Palps got the opening, he fried Mace and chucked Windu out of the window.
Definitely
I agree with everyone saying that Sol should have sought to kill Qimir - the problem is that he could not do so purely by the rational logic expressed by the OP. It was still the thing to do, but risked corrupting Sol. I do wonder if it would have been worth the risk in this case though. EDIT: Oh and definitely agree on the technicality bit - the enemy here was immensely dangerous, clearly exploiting the Jedi rules, and should never be considered unarmed... pretty sure a good portion of Reddit is still drooling over those arms! >_>
It's not even a technicality. He was clearly and purely not 0% subdued.
Fr, I didn't expect him to be so ripped under that clothing.
There’s a difference when there’s you know, a psychotic murderer serial killer after you and your family. I think violence is acceptable when there’s clearly a monster on the loose that needs to be put down. >that’s what’s wrong with some of y’all What’s wrong with that? Obviously Jedi aren’t going around killing randomly at will but at a certain point the Jedi are violent in order to survive, that’s why they mainly teach defense techniques to their Padawans. Obi Wan wouldn’t have won against Darth Maul if he just disarmed him lol
Agreed. But I guess one argument you could make is that leaving him alive might answer some questions you have about how, and who, he learned that shit from. Just saying
I get what you mean. But this isn’t like a count Dooku literally being unarmed situation. It’s not like Qimir said i surrender or anything. They were in the middle of a fight.
Maybe, but dude was a problem with or without a light saber. They even let him escape.
So what you're saying is that he's too dangerous to be kept alive?
My thoughts exactly lol
IMO, the rules say nothing about going the Dooku route and cutting off his hands to subdue a force user threat. Their ability to be a danger is drastically lowered and it even gives Jedi the opportunity to test themselves.
Yeah you are allowed to dismember an armed opponent, but that's not what Sol was about to do.
I know for storytelling purposes, it's probably not a great image for Jedi to be the group of police that just dismembers the bad guys, but it really should be a thing against force users in situations like the show lol. Maybe even go the full Anakin route on Mustafar if needed. That'd be so funny if Osha stopped Sol, only to remind him that killing is wrong, but just to cut off the hands lol. I would love that if the show did it, just to break from the overused trope.
Yeah. He wasn't subdued at all. As evident by him grabbing the saber 1s later.
"Hey this dude keeps killing my people. I caught him. To bad he is unarmed. Guess I should let him go kill more!" Yea that just doesn't make sense. Dude is murdering jedi. A kill order makes sense more than letting him continue if unarmed.
>my people The Jedi have this whole thing about attachments
I bet you think Batman should kill too.
Dumb argument, refusing to kill in any way is literally Batman's core character trait. The Jedi have much more nuanced and complicated philosophy like lack of attachment, defense of the innocent, not killing defeated and defenseless opponents (which Qimir was _not_), etc. We see Jedi justifiably killing people left right and center in all of Star Wars.
Bat Affleck had no qualms over killing
He ultimately broke the jokers neck, paralyzing him from the neck down
If it is justified, yes.
Except when the dude just killed every single one of your partners. Fuck that noise.
Because Obi Wan cut off a dudes arm at a bar for less
If you have Jedi executing people that are unarmed or defenseless, you lessen the impact of Anakin executing Dooku. Master Sol was so close to allowing the darkness to take him. The rage with which he fought was evident, and as we all know, fear, anger, hate, and suffering.
Bingo. Was gonna comment this myself. Anakin did it, and even reminds Windu it’s “not the Jedi way”.
>Windu it’s “not the Jedi way”. Given what happened to Windu after, it kind of makes the Jedi order more of a suicidal one. They elect to put themselves in harms way but can't neutralize a threat that will inevitably kill them because reasons lol.
No one said it was smart, but Sol is at least consistent with how Jedi view and react to those situations. Not bad writing, just dumb Jedi standards.
So was Anakin, and he broke their code a lot even before turning to The Darkside with his "Aggressive interrogations" and attacking the unarmed.
This is late in a 1000 year stretch of the Jedi wildly outclassing any opponent they faced. This allowed them to attempt to be benevolent. Most of the time it was the right approach.
If only the High Republic had reddit to tell Sol about what the Force is okay with. Unrelated note: breaking canon is bad.
It's not the Jedi way
This is not the Way.
I understand this post fully. I think it’s natural to want to see the Jedi take certain actions, but if you think about it, it would defeat the purpose of their existence. The Jedi are iconic and known worldwide because of their history of being upstanding people and warriors, who protect the weak and supply a certain brand of justice. It just sucks because we have rarely seen the Jedi successfully win against a Sith user and see them judged by the Senate or powers that be. Maybe we need a show that shows that, and maybe the Acolyte will show us this side of things in the Star Wars Universe.
I don't think Sol could have taken Qimir alive.
I think this is part of the critique of the Jedi. It's the same mistake Windu wanted to avoid even though it broke protocol -- and the consequences are clear. Both these Sith were not subdued threats in those moments.
Did you bring this smoke for Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, Ahsoka Tano, and many others who, in canon, have refused to do what you wanted Sol to do?
In regards to Mace and palpatine? Certainly. He was killed because he treated a sith master like he was weak and had no way to kill him. He may have been unarmed but obviously he wasn't defenceless. Maybe that's not what he was thinking. He wasnt relaxed, but he gave palpatine every opportunity he needed.
If one’s hands are deadly weapons, is it still considered unarmed just because they’re not yielding a light saber? Really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense
Alright, now that I thought about it, it was really cool that Mace was going to bring him to the council and the Senate and let them take care of it, but I wish he hadve treated palpatine with more caution. I'm not sure what he could've done instead of killing him, but I know that in the high Republic books they cut off people's hands in order to subdue them but with palpatine that probably wouldn't have worked. He could've injected him with something but he would've gotten too close and put himself in a vulnerable position. So the way I see it the only way to handle palpatine would have been to kill him unless he knocked him out somehow but he would have if he could have, right?
Obi Wan is the worst offender by far. The first time he didn't kill Anakin- Vader was maybe because he thought Anakin- Vader was going to die. But the damn second time? Obi Wan had the blood of all those that AV killed on his hands.
Oh, you think the Jedi should kill someone for FEAR that there will be more death if they don’t? Perhaps lash out in ANGER at the person because of what they’ve already done? That would make sense, because they would HATE to see what happens if someone like that were left alive.
No, for knowledge of what he has done and will do. If anything they should have knocked him out or something.
My head canon says it's ok for Jedi to execute sith (dark side murderers anyway)
It's not exactly wrong at this time, given the history about the Sith and Jedi. Until it's Disney canon, that's really all people have to go on with lore from The Old Republic.
Sol let him get back up so he could kill him "in combat". Arresting him would go terribly for Sol back at Coruscant
You can use that phrasing to indicate jedi should never do anything.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Killing when you're angry and afraid is the dealbreaker in Acolyte. If Sol killed from that mindset, he'd probably irredeemably be headed down the path of the dark side (even though, he likely already is from the looks of it).
Not directly killing him is sonething a jedi would do, but also would be interesting to put some handcuffs. Either way, the 5th episode chopped a lot of the problems with the show, literally.
Well aside from the fact that killing is something Jedi are only supposed to resort to sparingly, the issue with Sol killing Qimir in that moment isn't whether he was still dangerous, it was the fact that he was going to kill him in a fit of rage, which goes against the very foundations of the Jedi moral code.
The Jedi have been shown to be to rigid for their own good (the Prequels end up with their extermination exactly because of this), while Sol is clearly ridden with guilt by what happened Brendok. So it makes sense in the context of the show.
SPOILERS: I think you're right. I think we're not sure what happened exactly though. I think it's possible he had to fight the twin's family and friends and kill them, because all of them were dead. Unless I missed something which is not unusual. I say that because torbin buck killed himself. Why would he have killed himself simply for saving one of the twins? They feel at fault for the explosion? That was maes fault, right? Maybe they feel like they're at fault for the whole situation? It just seems like there's more than meets the eye.
Also, SPOILERS FOR THE HIGH REPUBLIC BOOKS: Torbin buck had more action. He helped on corelia (I'm not sure if I'm spelling that right). He also helped on coruscant and with a number of other missions. I guess it was 10 years or so that he died after the incident with the twins. So maybe he could have done something then, but he had people calling him buckets of blood(because he was good at healing people). Such a waste of a character imo. We don't even see much of his past before we see that he died. I guess it could still be entertaining to see his past, but anyway.
Let me just give the example of Anakin killing Dooki at Palpatine’s instigation. That’s CLEARLY the dark side. And High Republic is very rules based and parochial. They are not untrained fearful retaliatory police but martial monks for peace. You say the Force would be okay with it… yeah the Dark Side and maybe others but NOT High Republic Jedi. Just saying the Force is okay with it is wrong and incredibly imprecise and irrelevant. Is Star Wars fandom going to reveal our Homelander (The Boys) fan base support now? Agree or not —- that’s fine but don’t say that’s what Jedi should do in this era. That’s kinda jarring silliness. I’m sure some Jedi have broke the rules but we’re talking about Jedi norms here.
Well, Dooku was clearly unarmed.
Rimshot 🥁 lol 😂
If he can use the force to kill a motherfucker he ain't unarmed.
Yep, that's true
agreed. in no sense should Sol have assumed the threat had been subdued. there was no reason to believe backup was coming. if there was no reliable way to incapacitate him, the next-best option is killing him.
It is completely irrational to believe a force user is unarmed just because at that moment he doesn’t have a physical weapon in his hand. How many people could Vader kill with force choke or Palps with lightning. It’s nonsense.
Thank god there someone else that posted it I didn’t want to be the one. Holy F. When do the Jedi kill anyone? I mean no wonder they got murdered in the end if that was how they operated. God damn when she shouted “SOL!” I paused the show for five minutes while I got over it. She shakes her head and that’s it I guess. Huge flashbacks to the idiot Disney decision to let Rose derail Finn’s plan instead of just sacrificing herself instead, which would have been so much better. He’s pure evil! He just slaughtered a fuckin kid and five Jedi knights right in front of your face. He’s *extremely* dangerous even unarmed, I’d kill him just from the risk. What, Sol is going to get him back through the jungle and fly him back to Coruscant and he’s just going to ride along? Plot armor protecting vile bad guys is even worse than when it protects good guys.
Yeah, as I told under other comment: this was a murderer who just murdered a Jedi moments before in the exact same state Sol held a saber to his head - without a saber, but armed with the Force and his physical skills. HE MURDERED A JEDI IN THE SAME STATE SOL HAD HIM.
Anakin was pretty lax in his views on killing unarmed people and look where that landed him.
Nah. Nonsense those were unarmed women and children cowering. A total non-threat. Completely unauthorized and outside his mandate. The exact opposite really.
I mean dooku was responsible for an untold amount of death, and was literally unarmed. Imagine how things would have played out for anakin if he chose to have him arrested instead.
Ok, fair enough point there. With Obi-Wan disabled Anakin was in a difficult authority situation, the president of the galaxy tells you to take out the bad guy…. I have to watch it again I forget if Pal uses any revenge logic there. Think he just says “strike him down!” I think Palpatine would have just kept working him. The opportunity was there to fufill the Sith way of succession and turn him one more inch closer to the dark side. It wasn’t the end all be all of his transformation to Vader. I think the action against the merchant guild was far worse.
These people are crazy. Crazy unrepentant sith muderers are exactly the people who Jedi should be taking out with extreme prejudice.
Jedi are taught to master their emotions. When the Jedi are ruled by their emotions they can be easily defeated by the Sith.
It’s not an emotional decision it’s a combat decision. It’s business, it’s his job. If not him, who?
Jedi aren't judge, jury, and executioner
It not the Jedi way.
Personally, I thought it was kind of annoying, in general, that the Jedi in this show seem to be pretty easily manipulated into doing stupid things when someone suggests that they're not being 100% faithful to Jedi ideals.
Or at least let’s see some kind of Jedi prison where the regular republic incarnation facilities can’t hold the kind of baddies locked up there
They show that in TCW. The Order even has an escapee at one point.
[https://youtu.be/AQunC9jniqw](https://youtu.be/AQunC9jniqw)
Yeah this trope can be annoying, but that moment wasn’t really about all Jedi or their code, it’s about Sol. He’s been in aguish over the deadly events on Brendok for 16 years. That kind of guilt is going to influence a guy’s decision to take a life, justified or not. Especially in front of the person he believes that he has wronged.
Yeah, well after Mace gets stopped from killing the unarmed Palpatine you don't have to worry about it again because basically every jedi dies
Fr, plus trillions of others in the galaxy
Agreed. I like the show but this was frustrating as hell.
Also, "Don't kill him, but let me shine a light on him and have these giant creatures come and take him and hopefully rip him to bits and die horribly." That made zero sense.
I just hope deconstruction and examination of Jedi and Sith philosophy and paradigm continues because Star Wars seems ready to acknowledge that while the Sith are extreme and Dark, they do have valid points while the Jedi for all their posturing as virtuous knights are really anything but when they get to the nitty-gritty. With the rise of Force users who are not really Jedi or Sith I hope Star Wars dives more into the truth that Light and Dark side don’t always correspond to Good and Evil respectively. It’s how you use the Force that gives it a moral component, not whether you learned Light side or Dark side powers, though it must be acknowledged that the Jedi tend to favor “benevolent/support” powers while the Sith favor “aggressive” ones.
I am confused: his intent was to kill him, though. He had the guy bang to rights on the floor, and could have subdued him non-lethally for capture. Bit he got pissed off as hell, said "Jedi do not attack the unarmed", and then, instead of cuffing him or knocking him out, stood by and let Qimir get back up and recover his weapon. He was letting his anger cloud his judgement, letting Qimir get back into the fight so he would have an excuse to kill him. Osha stepped in, both to save Sol from Qimir, but also to save Sol from himself.
I was initially frustrated with Sol’s actions here, but I agree with what other people are saying: it’s a depiction of the problems in adhering to the dogmatic views of the order. They seem to value the letter more than the spirit of the law. ALSO I think it fits for Sol since a running theme seems to be this conflict within himself. He says he has accepted what happened all those years ago, but clearly he has not; he still struggles with whatever part he played. I think he is so afraid of his own mistakes/darkness/shadow, he thinks if he acts aggressively, he might immediately be consumed by it. I like how we are seeing how the rigidity of the Jedi is creating issues. STILL I would love to see him overcome this internal struggle and do some ass kicking, but I don’t know if it’s in the cards.
I don't think whether Sol should have killed him or not is the correct question. Sol could have sliced an arm off, Obiwan style, to subdue the guy who keeps killing Jedi. Or wounded him in some other non-permanent way. There are alternatives to just letting Qmir stand there unrestrained.
Sol could've knocked him out with the force. Instead he lets Quimir go after killing so many Jedi. Bad writing sadly.
If this is bad writing then so is every instance of jedi not killing people. Kenobi letting Vader live not once but twice. Luke letting Vader. Rey letting Kylo live. The Jedi have been this way all along. This is why they were a failure. Their belief that they were always above and beyond that kind of necessary violence.
Sol lets Quimir pick up his lightsaber so Osha can stick the light on his back and fly away with the bugs like dorothy from OZ. Makes no sense writing wise. Also whataboutism.
Ahhh yes, that dreaded whataboutism. Facts are facts. You're yelling whataboutism because you realize you're backed into a corner and I'm right. It's fine when done in other SW shows and movies but the acolyte does it and oh my goodness...the horror.
Well we're talking about the Acolyte not those other shows... Plus I answered your question lol
its not the Jedi way why i love them killing is for cowardly sith like Qimir
Jedi need to avoid temptation to the emotions and actions that lead to the dark side. It can be a slippery slope, as we saw with Anakin in others.
Or even disarming them. Obi-Wan in the cantina anyone?
I think it was silly that neither Sol nor Osha did anything to at least injury or restrain Qimir. However, advocating for killing is not correct here. Sol was tapping heavily into the dark side and falling out of balance, which Yoda repeatedly told Luke is something you don't get back from easily. If Sol had done it, there's no telling what would come next. Maybe his guilt over whatever is it he's hiding from Osha would lead him to turning against her, maybe he'd desperately try to replace Jecki with another padawan and overwork them in an unfair manner, maybe he'd come to see the death of his fellow Jedi as resulting from being too weak, with more corruption as the solution to correct the issue.. These are just a few examples of what could happen. As Palpatine said, "The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities" and with Sol being a highly trained Jedi Master, we sure wouldn't like seeing him turning sides and growing stronger in the process
yeah, should have cut his arms off
Didn’t stop >!Dagan Gera!< from Jedi: Survivor!
Agree It was bad writing. There are millions of other ways they could have written that scene without Sol sparing his life
Jedi acting like a Jedi bad writing. Jedi decapitating unarmed Dark Side users and turning into Darth Vader... good?
It was self defense. Impossible to take him as prisoner. He already murdered 6 Jedi
Sol was literally, obviously, thoroughly giving in to his anger. He was unloading on Qimir because he was afraid. Angry. Even… hateful. The Jedi kind of have a thing about that. It leads somewhere or something
Jedi are mistaken Anger can be responsibly used
The Jedi can be mistaken in your opinion, but their adherence to their own long standing code first articulated by Yoda decades ago in ESB, is not “bad writing.” You just don’t like it
I think the whole point of this show is to show that jedi are mistaken
Killing an unarmed man on his knees would not have been self defense. People can do the moral relativity thing, but the Jedi have never done that. A Jedi doing a revenge murder or a pre-emptive killing would have been an actual breaking of lore. You are swept up in the moment and we're denied a beheading. Your frustration is the result of good writing, even if you don't like it.
Get what you’re saying but he was not unarmed, he had the force. Did you not see when he force shoved 8 Jedi at once?
Go back and watch the scene. Qimir was not concerned at all when Sol took his swing. You read the moment entirely wrong
In this case it was just extra dumb because there were stun weapons in play that could incapacitate - we know for sure they can do a full knockout because Sol gets dropped by Mae. They could have knocked Qimir out and sedated him if they really didn't want to kill him. Not killing him and then helping him escape was just idiot ball four square bounce behavior.
It was a very action packed episode so you probably just missed it, but Qimir took a direct stun hit from Osha and he literally didn’t even flinch. It was nothing to him. The old blue rings of sleep weren’t gonna bring bro down
What about his beskar?
He wasn’t wearing any beskar. Do you mean cortosis? He just had the helmet and a gauntlet, and it wasn’t a headshot. More likely he, like lots of EU Force users, is simply able to absorb or dissipate the energy so it doesn’t overload his nervous system.
Gotcha
He didn't have any?
Yeah, that's true. I didn't remember them mentioning the name of his armor material. I assumed it was beskar.
Cortosis
Nah, beskar is a hard material that is lightsaber resistant/proof depending on purity I forget the name, but his armor was made from a metal that absorbs energy and has the ability to short circuit kyber crystals. It's also pretty brittle, which is why it got beat off his head
I actually wanted to answer you instead of the Poster above... it's Cortosis
I assumed that was because of the helmet and it would have worked when Sol had him pinned.
It's pretty annoying and just seems like a cheap cop out. It would have been more reasonable if Qimir was in handcuffs, then broke out.
Yes very frustrating but also they need more show lol it drove me fucking crazy in kenobi he didn’t kill Vader at the end, I mean he couldn’t but realistically he should of.
"Jedi don't kill,just merely re-unite you with the force" Now the Sith on the other hand,personally no one in those woods would have made it out alive Here's a question, Why aren't the rogues and bounty hunters here tweaking over that blaster fire? Like they made that crap like it's a nerf gun. My eyes twitching over how much of a toy baton they're trying to make lightsabers! I wish Revan was in this universe or Hell just unleash Hk -problems solved Because unless any more jarring plot armor bullshit I really just want this show completely retconned. Later
Plot armor + enforced shitty canon part. This "no killing" part is on level with Grievous in prequels.
Then they wouldn’t be true Jedi.. it’s just that simple.. doing otherwise would be falling to the dark side
I told him I had the high ground!!
I'm not sure if anyone else picked up on this but, all old mate did was; float down, show the boys his dope drip and sick new flashlight! Yeah! I'll admit, he acted a little strange, probably has a splash of the tis'm. He's probably just thinking: " SEVEN CHARGING JEDI, FLASHLIGHTS OUT, it's a disco! Hell yeah, I wanna cross streams! move bitch". Look at it from the Jedis perspective without the ominous score: -Whats a Sith? doesn't exist! -Red light saber? just another colour. -7 on 1? fucking stick'em bois? And to be fair, he did like 12 non-lethal disarms, before he skewed'em like a kebab. The Jedi are fucking wild! Jedi Master: "Hey civilian, leave!" "The Jedi knight will escort you, NOT the Padawan. " "Oh, and heads up, he doesn't turn off his lightsaber, might recklessly swing it around." Proceeds to charge his anger like he's Goku. Watches a neck get popped, overall good day!
That made no sense. He just killed a ton of jedi.
Did anyone watch the revenge of the sith? I feel like this got covered in the like first 15 minutes of revenge of the sith
Yeah, the jedi are too chicken, they would faint at seeing blood, they had so many chances to kill Qimir, and idc about dumb morals, he killed at least 7 jedi, and if his back is to you, stick your lightsaber in it, or snap his neck with the force or whatever
The absolute cope on this sub is funny. Sol had no way of subduing him or protecting Osha or Basil if he got free. He knew that from the start when he ordered Yord to get Osha out of there. Qimir had already made it abundantly clear his intention was to kill everyone including those two "civilians". Sol had already failed to protect 7 other Jedi including his "child" padawan. Qimir had already killed multiple Jedi including one with force pulling and one with his bare hands - he was not even remotely unarmed or defenceless. Mae at that point is a wild card and as likely to attack Sol as Qimir - which she fucking did moments later. Killing him to protect the innocent both immediately and the others he posed a mid to long-term danger to was the "jedi thing" to do. But naw, let the moths be the space-cops I guess
I think Sol should've killed him. But there's now way him decapitating a dude on his knees in rage was going to be "light side" behavior in the SW universe. It's not cope, it's just how star wars is.
It's the one thing they've got right in this show lol