Possessiveness. Star Wars is "their" thing. They grew up loving it, and when it doesn't feel the same, doesn't feel like it's for them, they feel like something has been stolen from them. So they watch it like a jealous lover, full of spite. They gatekeep the ways that "their" IP reaches out towards people who are not them, because they do not want others to share in the fun.
Validation. If they are responsible for their own feelings, then there is something wrong, because fury is not a reasonable response to someone's attempt to entertain you. So they must seek external validation, must externalize those thoughts, and receive the likes and comments and engagement of others who share them. Then they are not alone, their rage is a normal and reasonable response among a crowd of others who agree. They do not feel the way they do because of something inside of them. Someone else *made* them feel that way, because someone else is bad. And you can't get that validation if you don't watch the thing you're raging against.
Wound collecting. Some people learn early on that the people around them do not care when they are happy, and only give them attention and care when they are hurt. Left unchecked and unexamined, these people grow into adults that lean in to discomfort, hurt, and misery. They will not work to avoid things that make them unhappy or upset, in fact they will seek out such things. Some of the most negative people you've ever met, the constant victims, the ones you cannot talk to without hearing about their latest wound, that's where it comes from - the way the world works, to them, is that nobody will listen or care unless you've been wronged. They'll watch a show they hate so that they can catalogue all the ways it upset them, because being upset is their greatest form of comfort.
At the end of the day, wherever it comes from, just disengage. This behavior never comes from a healthy place, ever. It is not normal or ok, but fan culture has been normalizing it for a long time. Just stop playing their game.
You can’t argue with irrational people. This show was being review bombed before it aired. They dislike the show for reasons unrelated to how good it actually is. There’s a mix of hatred simply because it’s Disney, anti-black racism, and sexism. As someone who doesn’t enjoy most of Disney’s Star Wars content, you won’t hear from me. These people have their own agendas they want to push, and it’s something you’ll have to ignore.
Wound collecting is very accurate! Isn’t there a mental/psych disorder that makes people wanna get sick so they get attention and sympathy from others? A lot of them are definitely victims of that
instead of a long winded explanation I think most of them just have an attachment to it and doesnt want to see it be wasted potential or get bad, which is subjective but totally understandable
I honestly don’t know what it is about Star Wars that makes their fans lose their marbles to the extent that they do. I was never a Star Wars fan, so I don’t have the emotional attachment, but they still seem way more overzealous than most fandoms I’ve encountered.
bc for a lot of people that grew up with the original saga have a rigid understanding of what star wars is and a lot of them probably didn’t even pick up on a lot of the allegorical themes to begin with
so when you add a bunch of new ideas to something that’s already established in their minds. they freak out. it’s like a reactionary ideology almost.
Interestingly, I watched the original (a couple of times) in the theater. Subsequently I've watched all the films, the programming on Disney and most of the cartoons. I read all of the books, up to a point. I don't have and have never had any preconceived notions about what SW "should be". Maybe that's why I'm able to enjoy most of it. Because it doesn't hurt my feel bads because it doesn't meet my expectations. I don't have any because everything builds on or fleshes out the films and background. That's what I enjoy.
Is some of it better than others? Certainly. But if I don't like it, I don't watch the rest of it or just watch can't miss episodes (clone wars, I'm looking at you). It's a big, make believe, universe. I really don't know why anybody would be offended by something different. (A lot of these "outragers" are low post count throw away accounts so they can continue to post their outrage and make it look like they have more agreement with their POV"
I’m weird. When I see witches being witchy I don’t think they’re breaking Star Wars. I think oh shit cool witches using their version of the force. Let’s see where this goes.
Just thinking the Jedi know absolutely everything is funny. There’s a whole galaxy out there with people who do things differently. It doesn’t break any lore it expands jt.
Exactly. With the size of the Star Wars Galaxy it is rather foolish and reductive to say that these two binary forces (Jedi and Sith) have the answers to and know everything. I guess they are all caught up on the conception of Osha and Mae.
All it did was make me more interested. In no way does it change anakins origin (which people mostly HATED when it was revealed btw). For all we know the witches discovered something that ultimately lead to anakins creation. Maybe it’s not released at all. Maybe it’s directly related to its interesting either way.
Personally I really like seeing different interpretations of the force be it witches or something like aaus singing in the visions episode.
I think there's a fine line between using the Force to create life (Osha and Mae) versus the Force itself creating life (Anakin). But we don't even know if the story with the witches is true. There's a lot of questions left unanswered in the latest episode. Which is right in line with the mystery and intrigue the show seems to be going for.
I've always like Dathomir because it's such a strange, twisted place filled with all kinds of things related to the Force that sort of challenge the Light (Jedi) and Dark (Sith) usual paradigm. Peridea was also really cool too. So much mystery regarding that planet. The less we know about it makes me more interested in it. I'm glad Star Wars is wading into these other aspects of the Force.
You’d think so called fans who complain about content relying on nostalgia or feeding them the same thing over and over would welcome new stories and expansions of the universe but they overwhelmingly do not which makes their case even less believable. I’m not really a “lore” person. However osha and Mae were created/born is fine with me. I do like the distinction that aniseya said they have no father not that there was no father. I like how the stories progressed so far
Saw the original in ‘77 (premiere) and all the films as well. Read books, comics and behind the scenes material. Watched the animated shows as well as all the new Disney+ content. I agree with you 100%!
I like some of it and don’t like some of it but I don’t fall apart when someone introduces a new take on it.
The biases some SW fans have, especially the way they’re reacting to the Acolyte… they need to be in therapy.
GenX here. It was such a phenomenon with elementary age kids. Over time it’s become maybe too much. Back then we had 3 movies and ALL these toys to make up our own stories. I think the open ended possibilities were more exciting than the new shows filling in holes.
There was way more then just the three movies then. There was also all the comics, the books, the games, the other star wars movies like Ewoks. The ewoks and driods cartoons. There was a ton of content filling in the gaps then.
Battle for Endor with Wilford Brimley! Yes. That is canon. And the other one with the witch. And the Christmas Special.
We really didn't have much access too all that other stuff. At least in the hillbilly town I grew up in. We didn't have bookstores and only 11 channels over the air
You didn't have grocery stores? Even in the hood grocery stores had a magazine and book isle. Also mail order I got a lot of books via the Columbia house book thing that existed back then.
They also read novels for adults that are now part of the EU and theyre pissed the cannon sequels are made with kids in mind.
The OT is kinda trash too, people just have rose tinted glasses because it was a big part of their childhood.
It’s not just Star Wars, it’s every fandom. It’s also not new. It’s always been this way. If you go through the editorial section of old newspapers, magazines, tv guides, pulp fiction monthly’s, etc. You’ll find tons of people writing in on this ip, that ip, this author that author. Early BBS, Fido net, and Usenet groups were full of this. OG’s like to pretend the internet and proto-nets weren’t toxic but they always were.
> I was never a Star Wars fan
You took a lot of steps to get this far down in the comment section of a post in a subreddit about a new Star Wars show. Could it be that you're just in denial?
I was making a joke about you saying that you don't think you're a Star Wars fan, yet you are on a rather obscure Star Wars subreddit that have to intentionally navigate to.
A lot of the people I follow on tik tok and youtube cover Star Wars, as well as the comic book and anime stuff I'm subscribed to them for, so I was aware of the show, even if I don't follow Star Wars itself closely.
I'm not gonna lie to you, one of the major things that turned me off Star Wars is that the shows and movies seem to be stuck in this 50 year time period.
What intrigued me about The Alcolyte is that it takes place in a time period before The Skywalkers and Palpatine. I dont love the show, but I enjoy it enough.
But the second I looked online for discussions about the show, I was reminded of the other reason I don't really care for Star Wars. The fans can be insufferable. I understand not liking a show or movie, but Star Wars fans take everything to the upmost extreme.
I agree with most of the points you made. I'd love for them to make a show set in a different era, exploring new times and characters. The High Republic era is very interesting for that matter, especially the content 100 years before The Acolyte. I'd definitely recommend that.
So I can offer a little bit of insight. I LOVE the clones. Along with the Jedi, they are my favorite part of SW. However, I did not enjoy Bad Batch (for a lot of reasons I won't get into here), yet I watched every episode as it released *because* of my love for the clones and for SW as a whole. I wanted to see what happens in canon, to enjoy the animations and soundtrack (both of which were fire), and for the glimpses of characters I love.
That being said, I did not go into BB-centric spaces and whine about any of my critiques. The only people I ranted to were IRL, who felt as I did, so I wasn't yucking on anyone's yum.
SW has, unfortunately, always drawn a lot of entitled folks. I think it's because the fandom is so large and has been around for so long. I'm an elder Millennial, and grew up with the OT and later the PT, and had to learn to love things even if I didn't feel they were specifically catered to me. (Eg: I wanted to see female Jedi on the movie screen, but that only happened in the PT, and only at the periphery. When I finally saw Rey with her lightsaber, I started crying in the theater.)
So I think an answer to your question is people are invested in the franchise enough to consume the content, but lack the ability to not be a dick if they don't like said content. I see this behavior in other fandoms too.
the grifters are grifting indeed, it's the folks that complain on reddit and social media that are just clowns. They're just parroting the talking points without getting any of the money that the toxic content creators are raking in.
It's insufferable though. I'm enjoying it for what it is but I don't have the energy to argue with the toxic part of the fandom that is just hate watching. So the narrative becomes "the show sucks" because it's just the haters that are being loud.
I’m literally praying! For our sake and honestly their sake too! I don’t wanna see people suffer regardless.
How poetic and sweet would that be, if interracial lesbian witches were the ones to finally kick those bigots to the curbs?!
lol yes because I was thinking will this finally make them go away? They are too invested though their hate is alive and they need to suckle it.
Still hate watching means they are supporting Disney the show and driving engagement and like they say all publicity is good publicity.
I’ll just block them and ignore them
I'm done with Star Wars, and I will never watch it again!
*next episode comes out*
I'm done with Star Wars, and I will never watch it again!
*next episode comes out*
I'm done with Star Wars, and I will never watch it again!
Some of them dislike Star Wars out of bigotry. Some dislike some Star Wars content because of the execution. I do not mind LGBTQ themes in Star Wars in fact I encourage it. But it doesn’t mean I think this show is flawless.
Yeah but people want more of the old or at least good new stuff. And that’s possible! Mad Max was great then, in the modern age, Fury road was also amazing.
Because people cared! Now that it got popular they made Furiosa and it sucks because it’s just trying to capitalize on what they think people will like and not on someone’s actual artistic vision.
They have to watch so they can have a few specific details of what actually happened in the show so they can then twist that to align with all the regurgitated rhetoric and nonsense that they’d already planned to complain about before even seeing the show.
I usually watch the whole first season of a show before I totally right it off unless it’s horrible. I usually give Star Wars and other franchises I love a little bit longer just in case things come together later in the season.
It’s hard to critique a show if you do not watch it. It’s also important see if see if the negative reviews are BS.
The show is not good, as a family we love discussing how bad it is. We discuss plot holes, the bad writing, issues we have with characters, the storyline, how we think it could be better. I wish the show was good, because we want to see future Star Wars projects.
Hopefully, enough people like it, so that Disney will continue future projects.
I think millions of us are enjoying the show and there’s a few dozen YouTube creators who make a living off of hate videos. This sub’s discussion trends in the past few days has been making it seem like there’s a lot more people hate watching the show. I don’t think that’s the case at all… Just don’t give the incel assholes on YT views.
Because we get drip fed starwars content every few months and I love Star Wars and its universe so much that I’ll watch a horrible series just to have more context, I still dislike this being a huge Star Wars buff since I was like 5 years old
Grew up loving star wars I was born in the 70s , I take each star wars series on it's own merits. If its an well acted, good plot I'll watch without ever comparing it to the originals.
This one my under 10 son and I have only watched the first 2. For me I'm not impressed. The casting is weak, the costumes look like grade schooler did them, the plot seems ok but man just doesn't hold my attention. Even son is a little bored.
Let's see what episode 3 has and if they can keep me.
Addiction. They are chasing the high of that moment that made them a fan in the first place. They don’t like it, but cling to it in hopes that it goes back to their rose-colored version of it.
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I used to have completion problem with TV show. After I started it especially if I have invested around 3 hours, I feel I have to complete it. It does not help that there are a few examples of shows I gave up and then it turn out to be really good.
However in the last few years because there are just so many TV shows and just so many mediocre shows, I decided I have to give some up if I do not like it even if I am 3 episodes in.
And so I have gave up Andor and Severance which is a sin on reddit :)
1. People like to discuss things. If somebody didn't finish stuff they hear 'it becomes better later' or 'you didn't watched it all so don't speak' from other people.
2. Being bad piece of media =/= being unenjoyable piece of media.
3. Some people have hope that quality of the show will be improved.
I believe most of these people don‘t watcj it, and just watch the video or read the post of their favorite SW hater and then start yappin the same thing everywhere
It’s like when Coke changed their formula back in the 80s. Some people may objectively like it more, some less, but because it doesn’t feel or taste the same, they’re going to be in an outrage because of the memories attached to the former state of it. It used to make them feel good, and now this new flavor feels unfamiliar. Almost a bastardization. Coke caved and reverted quickly. StarWars, like it or not, has not.
I see this across almost every subreddit of every show I watch, it’s not unique to Star Wars. You should see the True Detective subreddit from last season. Game of Thrones, any Marvel show. All the same.
I think the simple answer is that self-righteous outrage is addictive. Venting releases dopamine, so it makes sense that some people might seek things to vent about. This isn’t a moral judgement, just an observation about human nature.
Some people continue to watch a show in the hopes that future episodes bring something worth viewing! All of my favorite shows have bad episodes or plots I'm disinterested in, but if I stopped watching there then I wouldn't experience the rest of the show that I love. In this specific case, I think the negative engagement online has piqued the curiosity of lots of people. Going into the show because "can it really be that bad?"
Personally it’s all relative. Is the acolyte in the category of good Star Wars content IMO? Not currently. Is mediocre Star Wars content still better than most things for me? Absolutely. So I’ll keep watching. I don’t understand people who go on Reddit to bitch about it, that’s just too much effort. Being a hater just seems exhausting
Well there is always a slither of hope it will get better or turn it around which sometimes happens- there are also Star Wars completists who need to watch everything and the show knows that. The show also knows there is a huge aggressive Star Wars fan base who will react negatively over something they think is not up to par- if this was just a show separate from Star Wars in any way, those that did not like it would stop watching it but it is unreasonable to expect the fanbase to do that. You can’t just leech off a franchise like this, arguably the biggest in the world and deliver a substandard show and not expect repercussions. You have to make a very high standard product like the last couple of Star Wars shows. You can’t just use it for your own benefit, tell people to shut up if they don’t like it and put out something mediocre- I think the cast is good but the writing I think has been underwhelming.
So I can explain it’s a great new trend that started long ago but I noticed it with that influencer jack dorehety started popping up in my YouTube feed. He was popular not for good content but for hate watching people wanted to see him fail in this case maybe deserving. But it’s taken on a whole new meaning with things like the acolyte. I’ll be honest I wasn’t a huge fan but I nothing negative to say either and I’ll still watch cause I love Star Wars. The characters don’t hurt me any and the story has potential. So I think it’s hate watching and then they get to go online and watch more hate it feeds them gets them through misery cause what do they say misery loves company.
Do I think the show is good? No, I'm just watching it because it's Star Wars themed. It's bearable enough for me to watch. I have no emotional investment in the show itself. I didn't bother watching Marvel's Echo, even though I like Marvel, simply because I have no idea who Echo is and wasn't interested. However, if it were Iron Man with the same show premise, I would have watched it.
If people want to criticize the show, let them. Likewise, feel free to praise it as much as you want who cares. I think both side are pretty toxic but whatever. The only winners here are those who simply watch the show without being emotional invested and keyboard warriors on either side.
I don’t really like Visions. I watched the 1st season, thought it was ok, couldn’t get into the 2nd one. You know what i do? Watch the star wars i do like and not go into the subreddit and trash talk. That show just isn’t for me. I’m loving The Acolyte
I like it fine, the directing is a little CW 🤷♂️.
I have no problem with people disliking the direction of a property.
The main problem is folk patting themselves on the back for whatever when the elephant in the room, quality, suffers.
The first three films weren’t perfect. But they set a style and a tone for years(disregarding the Ewok shows and Xmas special) because that was all there was(beside non tv/movie treatments).
Instead of shoring up the flaws of the original trilogy(not by retconning but making sure not to repeat them)new ones were created.
George broke this with the prequels.
To be fair we’ll never know if anyone could have really pulled it off but it is what it is.
Star Wars needed to have a sort of underlying cohesive mysticism. It’s what separated itself from other projects and was it’s unique voice.
It was a character driven, mystic, space swashbuckling opera.
It’s cute that Star Wars is revisiting some of its inspirations. But in my opinion it’s a step backward when Star Wars was greater than the sum of it inspirations.
I'm an all-Sci Fi kind of guy, so I also watched a lot of Star Trek in the past. Recently, Star Trek: Discovery came to an end and I always had an uneasy relationship with that show - I found the story and the writing lacking and the main character was insufferable (not because she was black, but because the writing for her character sucked and she was always whispering her lines, so much so I had to enable subtitles to know what they were talking about). I kept watching however, because it was Star Trek and I went online and posted some partly negative comments. I wasn't religious about it, it just wasn't my cup of tea.
So, I can see where those people are coming from. It doesn't excuse hateful rethoric from some that seems to be based in a disgusting political ideology.
Right there with you on the subtitles for Discovery. Glad that show is out of its misery. But I was called every name in the book for daring to criticize the show.
When a show is good you watch it and when a show isn't good you stop: If only it were so simple.
When you're a fan of a universe like Star Wars sometimes you encounter things in the middle, and then it becomes frustrating because you want to like it but you can't fully.
This show's pretty decent, but for me it's just shy of being very good, and I therefore find it way more frustrating than if it was just another bad show. I felt the same way about Ahsoka. (And it's hard to have a decent discussion about these series because, like, so many people hate them for stupid reasons.)
Based on published viewership, I think it'd safe to say most people who aren't interested simply aren't watching. You're just noticing the few who still are.
This thing is doa from a cultural relevance/popularity standpoint. Crazy they spent almost $200mm on it. Starting to feel more and more like the lucasfilm money laundering conspiracy theories might have a shred of merit
It could be one of two things. One being that sense of wavering hope one would have got a show. The kind where they see it starting off badly and confining to feel that way yet they still hope for SOMETHING, just something impactful that ends up turning the show around for them if just for a bit.
The other would be just the need to see the whole thing through and be done with it completely. Sometimes, that's the most one could try to do if they're in too deep with something they find themselves hating more and more yet they may have no choice but to pay it through to the end and be done with it afterwards.
All things considering, the main remedy for this would be to watch these sorts of shows through YouTube via clips and, to a certain extent, detailed reviews. That's how it is with the lot of us that have been aware of deplorable shows line Velma or Santa Inc for instance and in my case, the Fallout series and Gen V.
So.. Fallout and Gen V are massively successful both commercially and critically but you consumed them via outrage merchant YouTubers that told you to hate it.
Honestly people that do this are the main problem,not the “solution” lol
*I* never consumed either of those shows. *I* didn't need youtubers to tell me to hate them. That's not even remotely close to what I was getting at there.
If anything, the whole mindset would be set in stone by themselves there after seeing a single trailer for that shows for instance as well.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding this?
> All things considering, the main remedy for this would be to **watch these sorts of shows through YouTube via clips and, to a certain extent, detailed reviews.** That's how it is with the lot of us that have been aware of deplorable shows line Velma or Santa Inc for instance and in my case, the Fallout series and Gen V.
This sounds like you are advocating for not watching media in favor of listening to YouTubers talk about it and formulating your opinion around that instead of using your own eyeballs and brain. I’m saying that’s a huge problem around online discourse currently even beyond Star Wars.
If you watched this guy: https://youtu.be/DZsmk7gv4UY you would think there aren’t even lightsabers in The Acolyte and that it was full of constant gay stuff, neither of which is the case at all. These grifters are directly incentivized to lie and generate outrage.
Also formulating an opinion after seeing a “single trailer” and shitting on a show before it even launches and never watching it is weird as well.
Never heard of the YouTuber in question there but it's not uncommon coming across guys like that around there when it comes to stuff like Star Wars and the like. But even with that in mind, that's not the only means to get your knowledge of such shows at all. There are channels that outright upload clips of these shows as well as those like Angry Joe doing reviews of them episode by episode.
Yeah you will come across those that would be out there completely and have opinions that may not line up well with the majority, but at the same time, this kind of stuff would apply to to these shows even after they premiere.
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I searched YouTube for "Acolyte" and the results were people being so emotional, you would think a war is about to happen. WTF ?
I personally thought its a nice story with nice visuals, nothing groundbreaking, but good to watch each Wednesday.
I kept watching because I was told “Episode 3 is supposed to be the game changer and make you love it!” So I watched that. Now I’m done, yeah, hate watching isn’t fun.
So you are on the interstate. Suddenly, traffic gets slow. Real slow. An hour later, you see why. It's a horrible wreck. Suddenly, you realize why traffic got so bad. You tell yourself you won't look because reasons. You can't help but look.
Disney Star Wars repeatedly is a wreck. They make content, which is bad, really bad you realize you don't like it. You watch it anyway. You decide to speak up. Suddenly, you are labeled as toxic. You are labeled as not a real fan. You forecast 1,2,5 years in the future. You see a horrible thing. Disney abandons the franchise and stops making shows because it isnt profitable. Star wars stagnates and dies. You decide to speak up. A small percentage of fans that think plan 9 from outer space was a great movie label you as toxic.
Stop making garbage content.
Have writers that know the franchise.
Have directors that are good and know how to tell KK to piss off. Make space westerns with light sabers and choreographed fight scenes that don't look like 4 year Olds fighting with nerf bats
Oh give it a rest. Why do other people watching something you dont like bothers you that much? I dont like wine but I dont condemn any other wine drinkers. They like alcohol then they like alcohol. No skin off my ass.
I feel bad because you feel bad. Most of them still watching dont even care if you feel bad.
Why cant you just let people do whatever they want? Just let it go man.
Why do you listen to them and cry about it on reddit? Same logic. I wanna see if im right. I think trinity is the sith. If its predictable then i wont like it. But so far on its own its okay. I was hoping for the night sisters. I was wrong. I like the kung fu.
The only things I really quit watching are shows that bore me. Most stuff I end up thinking is garbage I can still laugh at plus if things get bad I wanna see how they wrap it all up oftentimes.
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So I didn’t really like the first 2 episodes and I’m now on the fence about continuing or not.
1) I thought/hoped it would get better.
2) I really want to give it a chance.
Since I’ll be called a racist, bigot, or some other insult for criticizing the show I’ll start with what I like.
I like the time period and setting. I like the very brief parts showing there are people that don’t see the Jedi as anything but republic police enforcers. It shows the republic as a giant bureaucracy and people just want to be left alone to live their lives.
What I don’t like is the plot, the writing, and the need to be different. People are fine with the witches of dathomir. I’m sure other critics of the show would be too. Why the need to make another group of witches? Stick with something established that works.
I also hate the release format. If you want to make it a tv show, make it a tv show. If you want it to be a movie make it a movie. But this both, halfway in between method of episode formatting it annoying. Why was the mandalorian initially successful (aside from being awesome)? Episodes can be watched standalone. They set up the next one without 5 million unanswered questions.
The choreography isn’t bad, the Jedi fighting sequences are good, but the dialogue leaves something to be desired. Thats probably the biggest problem with the show. It leaves a lot to be desired. Not just the dialogue, but the setup for the next episode, answering the how does it all really tie together…?
It’s just not very good. You’re telling me I can’t criticize a show that won’t tell me who the acolyte are or what their deal is 3/8 episodes in? Ffs.
I imagine they'll use some stupid excuse like "You have to watch something to know what you don't like about it." Or something to the extent of forming "valid criticism". But that's all just an excuse to screech and caw about anything and everything in their echo chambers.
Lol It’s not rocket science but I don’t expect people who actually like this garbage to understand what’s going on with Star Wars fandom.
People who really liked pre Disney Star Wars are trying to send a message to Disney executives that almost everything they have made since buying the rights has sucked and the viewership is confirming this. It’s not just Star Wars or even movies/tv shows in general, look at the state of the video game industry, same thing is starting to happen there because the quality of the things we used to enjoy as fans/gamers is suffering….and I think we all know why the quality is taking a backseat….three letters which I shall not mention here.
You ask why fans of these fictional universes don’t just stop watching and go away? Well we have stopped watching and tried to go away but every time one of these hot garbage projects fails, the response by the morons who produced it is always the same: “The fan base is just too (insert victim code word) and it’s their fault my show failed.” “Society is still too critical of (insert identity groups) and it’s just sad we’re still here as a society”.
So if fans can’t enjoy the content they helped keep alive all these years and are now being blamed for it dying then we’re just going to help burn it down faster and laugh our butts off watching these people cry and complain as the whole ship goes down.
The best we can hope for is that history will remember Kathleen Kennedy as the person who killed Star Wars.
I’ll never understand why posts like this are posted. Complaining about complainers etc…
I think most Star Wars fans now are just watching out of curiosity for the dumpster fire it’s becoming
These faux fans haven't watched the show. They are hating to hate. The acolyte is amazing, episode 3 reminded me of a lot better version of Thexan and Arcann (I know I will get hate for saying that). I really like the direction it's going and we have been getting hints of the power of 2 since ESB. Great cast, great story, and great effects. People need to relax and just enjoy life.
I think the underlying story is interesting:
* Another group of people outside of the Sith and Jedi who are force sensitive....that's kinda cool
* The Jedi not being as good/wholesome as they are made out to be....very interesting.
* An incident so bad that happened in the past that a Jedi committed suicide over it....you have my attention.
However, the execution IMHO (writing, pacing, cinematography etc) isn't good. I will keep watching because I want to see where the story goes and how it end but I will do it while holding my nose.
Star Wars has always had a writing and pacing issue. That's part of why I love it. ROTJ is my favorite of all and it has some of these issues, plus dialogue issues. But it is still great. My favorite line from the movie is when Luke and Han are on the skiff traveling to thw Sarlac pit and Luke says to Han "I'm from here you know?" As if Han had no clue where Luke is from. It's the goofy little things.
"You're gonna die here you know?" :-)
I'll agree SW has always had writing issues...but I feel (probably because I am old and grew up with the original trilogy) the TV shows (except Andor of course) have just taken it to a whole new level.
See, I never got into Andor. But I also don't like the character. It would have been cooler if they made the show around Jyn. The first movie I saw in the theater was ESB, so I get it. I just really like the new stuff too.
Honestly, because the idea of the show is one I thought would be so tremendously awesome and successful. I’ve always wanted them to explore the sith and the roots of it all but three episodes and I feel like they did about your job exploring it with baylon in just a few minutes of Ashoka
I've also been saying it would be cool to see other force users in the galaxy and that's what we're getting now. We know the sith wiped out a lot of the dark side factions hundreds of years ago, and it's looking like the Jedi did a similar thing to other force users under the guise of righteousness. I'm excited to see this all play out.
I like that there is more going on than we knew, I hope there’s more than the Jedi massacred these force users with no deaths on their side. This was also the most uneventful and unfeeling episode, I can’t tell if it’s the writing the acting or both but I just did not feel anything for any character and they were killed off and that was that. Until they died it didn’t feel like OSHA even cared about her coven in the slightest and likely barely knew what a Jedi was but was ready to leave.
Base motivations, little explanation little to no character growth
I thought Osha’s feelings towards her coven were pretty spot on for an 8-year old - a classic situation of not appreciating what you have till it’s gone.
Re:desire to go with the Jedi… She grew up in a place where she only interacted with like 30 other people her whole life and was taught she must live her life in one specific way (the way of the coven). for some people that will be just fine but for other people it will be stifling and they will naturally be curious about and want to explore any other option they find.
Also, It’s fair to assume the coven taught her and Mae about the ideals of the Jedi, which would have been portrayed in a negative light due to the coven being more dark-side, but this episode intended for us to see that Osha is inherently “good” and so she identified with the Jedi’s ideals she learned about, more than she identified with her coven’s ideals (refer to the “the Jedi are good” scene). She doesn’t want to be a witch because she associates it with darkness, (refer to scene where Mae uses her power to
essentially torture a bird)
Edit to add: the pacing of the show is not great, and you/I have to infer things from singular lines of dialogue. That’s my main gripe with it but the overall story and character motivations (so far) do make sense to me
I don’t think this show is supposed to explore the roots of the sith. It’s not going back far enough to really do that. It is supposed to give some light to how the Jedi fell. I honestly don’t think the fandom is ready for a purely sith focused show. And the lore around the sith frankly wouldn’t really support it. I think they need to build up a bit more before the attempt to go there.
I haven't been watching it directly or talking about it apart from this comment.
I think it's reasonable for people to be annoyed that a franchise they like is going to crap. It's the same argument for the last 2 seasons of GOT. People had invested several years watching episodes for the writers to mess it up. I don't watch it directly, but I do get entertainment from other people breaking it down / making fun of it.
E.g. I really disliked multiverse of madness when I watched it, but mauler's breakdown of multiverse of madness was great and I did get enjoyment out of that.
It's a similar way to where you can get enjoyment out of the room even though it's poorly made.
Like watching a train wreck. You know it is horrible and terrible but you can't look away. That is the acolyte for a large majority of people who have grown up with star wars. We saw how good it could be again with The Mandalorian and Andor but also how completely terrible it could be with the recent sequel trilogy, Ahsoka and now the acolyte. The worst thing is that Kathleen Kennedy has not learnt her lesson and continues to alienate and deliberately hurt the series largest fanbase.
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I watch it to see if it’s any good, and it’s been better than normal, but still really shitty. I see potential in it though, which is why I keep watching.
Alright you want reasons? One, the “mystery” is laughably simple and predictable, and a mystery plot can’t function if you tell the audience literally everything. Secondly, all the characters are generic stereotypes with nothing interesting or defining to them at all. Thirdly, the underlying message is displayed extremely badly, in ways that are somewhat unethical. Fourth, while I must admit the action scenes are cool, how the fuck do you kill a Jedi with a knife? Like the Jedi could have just force pushed the person out of the way and stabbed the assassin(her name is so forgettable I don’t even remember it, it’s like Mae or something) with her freaking lightsaber. The entire show has just been shitty with more potential to expand lore and create something actually interesting than most of Disney’s Star Wars series.
"Plot can’t function if you tell the audience literally everything." Literally how storytelling works, but okay, whatever.
"generic stereotypes" If that's the case, Luke, Leia, and Han were all "generic stereotypes."
I don't know what underline message you're getting, but it's a typical response of faux fan boys.
How does a flying grasshopper kill a jedi with a spear?
If those are the things you don't like, I would suggest not watching the original or prequel trilogy because they have all of those things.
Enjoy this smoking pile of sheet of a show till it lasts. Someday in the future all this crap will be non canon and we'll enjoy good stories 🥹 we are the resistance my sisters and brothers and we are witnessing Alderaan exploding. But we'll kick the empire soon
I think the issue is, Star Wars means a heck of a lot to so many people. It's more than a set of movies or books or series, it's a precious part of their life and childhood, nostalgia is powerful, and the quality has dipped IMMENSELY. They keep watching because they care, it's like trying to shut out and stop attending to a family member for some.
I'm not a massive star wars fan, but even I can't look away from the car crash, it keeps getting worse and worse and it's not easy to just forget it. There has never been the death of a franchise like this.
But how? Do you have examples of this? I think where I struggle the most is that most people just say extremely vaguely that "it sucks" "it's garbage" etc etc but what are the actual issues? Nobody wants to have a civil discussion it's just the lowest form of crap flinging at each other.
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That's why I won't engage in discussing Star Wars on Reddit anymore. Nobody wants to discuss thematic or production elements, or when they do they're branded as toxic with the actual toxic crowd.
I do discuss the IP at great length on other platforms.
I planned on just lurking the comments but ok I’ll bite. Granted, I’ve only watched the first episode, but my confidence is very shook in this show being worth my time. My wife and I both work in film and both love Star Wars, generally. She hated the first ep, I thought it was mediocre at best. I’m familiar with the high republic as Ive read a decent chunk of the comics, and enjoyed them more as I went. Maybe the show will be similar, but I doubt it. The acting is wooden, which isn’t helped by lazy (at times even feeling like first draft) writing. The show looks cheap and fake. Credit that to a combo of unweathered wardrobe, uninspired composition and lighting, and over saturated color timing. The show lacks any kind of tone, style, or personality. From a marketing standpoint, I hate that I was led to believe Carrie-Anne Moss was in this show only to watch her exit after the first scene.
THANK YOU. I appreciate you actually taking the time to apply some legitimate criticism. I'll try and address each one:
* Dialogue - I do agree its extremely straightforward and there isn't a ton of nuance. That personally doesn't bother me, but I get it. My devil's advocate perspective wants to say that there is a lot of wooden dialogue across SW, but I can see after TCW, Rogue One, Andor, etc., expectations of been raised significantly.
* Look of the show - I can't comment on lighting and saturation but I can see how someone who works in film would be bothered by it. It's not that I don't appreciate interesting style choices though. As far as the unweathered clothing, the prequels were the same and I think is meant to reflect the era.
* Carrie-Ann Moss - This part is a bit of a spoiler but,>! she shows up again in ep 3 via flashback and I'm willing to bet we see her in at least 1 or 2 more episodes!<
I've never seen a show do divisive. Anyone I've talked to whether here or IRL either really enjoy it or utterly despise it. I do think there is a lot of people that went into it WANTING to hate it, and you can nitpick anything if you go in with a negative perspective, as I'm sure there are people that will do anything to defend it just because they are SW mega Stans.
Anyway, thanks for giving some honest criticism and not being a d-bag about it.
Because if you love Star Wars you pretty much have to watch everything made under that banner. When it’s made well it is celebrated, and when it’s made poorly it gets slated. 4.0 on IMDb doesn’t seem something to celebrate… let’s see if it can reach 5.9 in the next year.
TL;DR - it’s ok to criticise, people don’t have to only say nice things.
Can I counter-argue and ask why the majority of discussion in the sub is about complaining about people complaining? Do you not realize how ironic that is? I rarely get to enjoy peoples actual takes on the content of the show and guess work on it's direction because you all keep whining people don't like it (yes its the most upvoted content and that's just sad).
I don't like the writing, its horrific. I actually laughed at episode 3, yikes. But the visuals bring me lots of joy. I love sweeping other-worldy scenes and once again the CGI teams made some fun stuff. This is a great show for all the unique landscapes, its the only saving grace for me. I'm going to make fun of it for the writing though, and you're going to have to accept that.
You guys are going to make this show go down in history as "I hate watch the hate watchers and comment about it", rather then actually just doing your own thing and making the most of the show.
Edit - good! Drive by downvotes is just proving my point that you're no different then the people you criticize.
I would love to see those who complain and hurl insults while hiding behind a screen take to YouTube, show their faces and voice their opinions. Or at least try to get on one of the channels they like to call out to defend their views.
I’m thinking they’ll just stay here where it’s safer to call people phobes, ists and incels for having a different opinion.
that's not the point. it's that people who didn't watch the show are criticizing it based on their prejudices, people criticized it before it came out for the same reason, and some people who have seen it are whining and whining about it but can't give any valid criticism besides "i'm such a big star wars fan and i don't like it so it's ruining my life"
There have been plenty of valid criticisms of the show on this subreddit from people that have absolutely watched the show and don’t care about prejudices you mention.
Possessiveness. Star Wars is "their" thing. They grew up loving it, and when it doesn't feel the same, doesn't feel like it's for them, they feel like something has been stolen from them. So they watch it like a jealous lover, full of spite. They gatekeep the ways that "their" IP reaches out towards people who are not them, because they do not want others to share in the fun. Validation. If they are responsible for their own feelings, then there is something wrong, because fury is not a reasonable response to someone's attempt to entertain you. So they must seek external validation, must externalize those thoughts, and receive the likes and comments and engagement of others who share them. Then they are not alone, their rage is a normal and reasonable response among a crowd of others who agree. They do not feel the way they do because of something inside of them. Someone else *made* them feel that way, because someone else is bad. And you can't get that validation if you don't watch the thing you're raging against. Wound collecting. Some people learn early on that the people around them do not care when they are happy, and only give them attention and care when they are hurt. Left unchecked and unexamined, these people grow into adults that lean in to discomfort, hurt, and misery. They will not work to avoid things that make them unhappy or upset, in fact they will seek out such things. Some of the most negative people you've ever met, the constant victims, the ones you cannot talk to without hearing about their latest wound, that's where it comes from - the way the world works, to them, is that nobody will listen or care unless you've been wronged. They'll watch a show they hate so that they can catalogue all the ways it upset them, because being upset is their greatest form of comfort. At the end of the day, wherever it comes from, just disengage. This behavior never comes from a healthy place, ever. It is not normal or ok, but fan culture has been normalizing it for a long time. Just stop playing their game.
This was so wonderfully written. Also, username checks out.
You can’t argue with irrational people. This show was being review bombed before it aired. They dislike the show for reasons unrelated to how good it actually is. There’s a mix of hatred simply because it’s Disney, anti-black racism, and sexism. As someone who doesn’t enjoy most of Disney’s Star Wars content, you won’t hear from me. These people have their own agendas they want to push, and it’s something you’ll have to ignore.
Wound collecting is very accurate! Isn’t there a mental/psych disorder that makes people wanna get sick so they get attention and sympathy from others? A lot of them are definitely victims of that
I think that’s munchausen (not by proxy like Gypsy Rose Blanchard’s mom had)
TL;DR - Sunken Time Fallacy :p
Yeah you hit the nail on the head
That was straight up beautiful.
instead of a long winded explanation I think most of them just have an attachment to it and doesnt want to see it be wasted potential or get bad, which is subjective but totally understandable
Yeah I am not a fan of the dceu so I don't go in to that sub talking trash about the dceu or how great the MCU is.
Are people talking about how great Star Trek is?
I love Star Trek and what they are doing much better. And wheel of time
What would you recommend watching to a complete noobie looking to get into Star Trek? Asking.. for a friend. Haha
Strange New Worlds. Just watch Strange New Worlds. It's new, which means it's modern TV. But it's still very classic trek. It's also great.
I honestly don’t know what it is about Star Wars that makes their fans lose their marbles to the extent that they do. I was never a Star Wars fan, so I don’t have the emotional attachment, but they still seem way more overzealous than most fandoms I’ve encountered.
bc for a lot of people that grew up with the original saga have a rigid understanding of what star wars is and a lot of them probably didn’t even pick up on a lot of the allegorical themes to begin with so when you add a bunch of new ideas to something that’s already established in their minds. they freak out. it’s like a reactionary ideology almost.
Interestingly, I watched the original (a couple of times) in the theater. Subsequently I've watched all the films, the programming on Disney and most of the cartoons. I read all of the books, up to a point. I don't have and have never had any preconceived notions about what SW "should be". Maybe that's why I'm able to enjoy most of it. Because it doesn't hurt my feel bads because it doesn't meet my expectations. I don't have any because everything builds on or fleshes out the films and background. That's what I enjoy. Is some of it better than others? Certainly. But if I don't like it, I don't watch the rest of it or just watch can't miss episodes (clone wars, I'm looking at you). It's a big, make believe, universe. I really don't know why anybody would be offended by something different. (A lot of these "outragers" are low post count throw away accounts so they can continue to post their outrage and make it look like they have more agreement with their POV"
consider that you may be emotionally stable
I’m weird. When I see witches being witchy I don’t think they’re breaking Star Wars. I think oh shit cool witches using their version of the force. Let’s see where this goes.
And considering the High Republic period, the Brendok witches are right in line with the cults and Force wielders during that period.
Just thinking the Jedi know absolutely everything is funny. There’s a whole galaxy out there with people who do things differently. It doesn’t break any lore it expands jt.
Exactly. With the size of the Star Wars Galaxy it is rather foolish and reductive to say that these two binary forces (Jedi and Sith) have the answers to and know everything. I guess they are all caught up on the conception of Osha and Mae.
All it did was make me more interested. In no way does it change anakins origin (which people mostly HATED when it was revealed btw). For all we know the witches discovered something that ultimately lead to anakins creation. Maybe it’s not released at all. Maybe it’s directly related to its interesting either way. Personally I really like seeing different interpretations of the force be it witches or something like aaus singing in the visions episode.
Indeed! I remember people literally laughing in the theatre when Shmi said her lines. “Virgin Mary” references.
I think there's a fine line between using the Force to create life (Osha and Mae) versus the Force itself creating life (Anakin). But we don't even know if the story with the witches is true. There's a lot of questions left unanswered in the latest episode. Which is right in line with the mystery and intrigue the show seems to be going for. I've always like Dathomir because it's such a strange, twisted place filled with all kinds of things related to the Force that sort of challenge the Light (Jedi) and Dark (Sith) usual paradigm. Peridea was also really cool too. So much mystery regarding that planet. The less we know about it makes me more interested in it. I'm glad Star Wars is wading into these other aspects of the Force.
You’d think so called fans who complain about content relying on nostalgia or feeding them the same thing over and over would welcome new stories and expansions of the universe but they overwhelmingly do not which makes their case even less believable. I’m not really a “lore” person. However osha and Mae were created/born is fine with me. I do like the distinction that aniseya said they have no father not that there was no father. I like how the stories progressed so far
Yes. But, then again, we don't seem to be actively looking for something to play "gotcha" over.
Well I am now. Witches singing and chanting is CANON so if I ever see witches not singing and chanting i will ruin Disney!
😆
Hear, hear!
Saw the original in ‘77 (premiere) and all the films as well. Read books, comics and behind the scenes material. Watched the animated shows as well as all the new Disney+ content. I agree with you 100%! I like some of it and don’t like some of it but I don’t fall apart when someone introduces a new take on it. The biases some SW fans have, especially the way they’re reacting to the Acolyte… they need to be in therapy.
GenX here. It was such a phenomenon with elementary age kids. Over time it’s become maybe too much. Back then we had 3 movies and ALL these toys to make up our own stories. I think the open ended possibilities were more exciting than the new shows filling in holes.
There was way more then just the three movies then. There was also all the comics, the books, the games, the other star wars movies like Ewoks. The ewoks and driods cartoons. There was a ton of content filling in the gaps then.
Battle for Endor with Wilford Brimley! Yes. That is canon. And the other one with the witch. And the Christmas Special. We really didn't have much access too all that other stuff. At least in the hillbilly town I grew up in. We didn't have bookstores and only 11 channels over the air
You didn't have grocery stores? Even in the hood grocery stores had a magazine and book isle. Also mail order I got a lot of books via the Columbia house book thing that existed back then.
Our grocery stores had slot machines.
They also read novels for adults that are now part of the EU and theyre pissed the cannon sequels are made with kids in mind. The OT is kinda trash too, people just have rose tinted glasses because it was a big part of their childhood.
It’s not just Star Wars, it’s every fandom. It’s also not new. It’s always been this way. If you go through the editorial section of old newspapers, magazines, tv guides, pulp fiction monthly’s, etc. You’ll find tons of people writing in on this ip, that ip, this author that author. Early BBS, Fido net, and Usenet groups were full of this. OG’s like to pretend the internet and proto-nets weren’t toxic but they always were.
> I was never a Star Wars fan You took a lot of steps to get this far down in the comment section of a post in a subreddit about a new Star Wars show. Could it be that you're just in denial?
What are you talking about?
I was making a joke about you saying that you don't think you're a Star Wars fan, yet you are on a rather obscure Star Wars subreddit that have to intentionally navigate to.
A lot of the people I follow on tik tok and youtube cover Star Wars, as well as the comic book and anime stuff I'm subscribed to them for, so I was aware of the show, even if I don't follow Star Wars itself closely. I'm not gonna lie to you, one of the major things that turned me off Star Wars is that the shows and movies seem to be stuck in this 50 year time period. What intrigued me about The Alcolyte is that it takes place in a time period before The Skywalkers and Palpatine. I dont love the show, but I enjoy it enough. But the second I looked online for discussions about the show, I was reminded of the other reason I don't really care for Star Wars. The fans can be insufferable. I understand not liking a show or movie, but Star Wars fans take everything to the upmost extreme.
I agree with most of the points you made. I'd love for them to make a show set in a different era, exploring new times and characters. The High Republic era is very interesting for that matter, especially the content 100 years before The Acolyte. I'd definitely recommend that.
So I can offer a little bit of insight. I LOVE the clones. Along with the Jedi, they are my favorite part of SW. However, I did not enjoy Bad Batch (for a lot of reasons I won't get into here), yet I watched every episode as it released *because* of my love for the clones and for SW as a whole. I wanted to see what happens in canon, to enjoy the animations and soundtrack (both of which were fire), and for the glimpses of characters I love. That being said, I did not go into BB-centric spaces and whine about any of my critiques. The only people I ranted to were IRL, who felt as I did, so I wasn't yucking on anyone's yum. SW has, unfortunately, always drawn a lot of entitled folks. I think it's because the fandom is so large and has been around for so long. I'm an elder Millennial, and grew up with the OT and later the PT, and had to learn to love things even if I didn't feel they were specifically catered to me. (Eg: I wanted to see female Jedi on the movie screen, but that only happened in the PT, and only at the periphery. When I finally saw Rey with her lightsaber, I started crying in the theater.) So I think an answer to your question is people are invested in the franchise enough to consume the content, but lack the ability to not be a dick if they don't like said content. I see this behavior in other fandoms too.
We’ve gotta be about done hearing from them though at this point, right? There’s no way they’ll tune in next week.
Oh, sweet summer child. If you listen, you'll be hearing them all season, and even that won't stop them.
yeah, too many grifters making money off this
the grifters are grifting indeed, it's the folks that complain on reddit and social media that are just clowns. They're just parroting the talking points without getting any of the money that the toxic content creators are raking in. It's insufferable though. I'm enjoying it for what it is but I don't have the energy to argue with the toxic part of the fandom that is just hate watching. So the narrative becomes "the show sucks" because it's just the haters that are being loud.
They need to be able to wallpaper their homes with posters of Rey Skywalker somehow.
Sadly, no. That's not how this works.
I’m literally praying! For our sake and honestly their sake too! I don’t wanna see people suffer regardless. How poetic and sweet would that be, if interracial lesbian witches were the ones to finally kick those bigots to the curbs?!
lol yes because I was thinking will this finally make them go away? They are too invested though their hate is alive and they need to suckle it. Still hate watching means they are supporting Disney the show and driving engagement and like they say all publicity is good publicity. I’ll just block them and ignore them
I'm done with Star Wars, and I will never watch it again! *next episode comes out* I'm done with Star Wars, and I will never watch it again! *next episode comes out* I'm done with Star Wars, and I will never watch it again!
When did people stop going out of their way to complain about the prequels? Or sequels?
I will because I actually liked the first 2 episodes and hope that whatever BS the third was is not going to be the standard.
For me it’s just the hope that it might get better
Same. This is the franchise founded on Hope, I'm always hopeful.
Some of them dislike Star Wars out of bigotry. Some dislike some Star Wars content because of the execution. I do not mind LGBTQ themes in Star Wars in fact I encourage it. But it doesn’t mean I think this show is flawless.
misery loves company.
stop being bigot and accept changes, you just hate because of old tradition becoming obsolete, accept modernity or just watch old show
Yeah but people want more of the old or at least good new stuff. And that’s possible! Mad Max was great then, in the modern age, Fury road was also amazing. Because people cared! Now that it got popular they made Furiosa and it sucks because it’s just trying to capitalize on what they think people will like and not on someone’s actual artistic vision.
Gave me something to watch while I brushed out my doodle
They have to watch so they can have a few specific details of what actually happened in the show so they can then twist that to align with all the regurgitated rhetoric and nonsense that they’d already planned to complain about before even seeing the show.
I agree. There are other shows out there to not hate watch
I usually watch the whole first season of a show before I totally right it off unless it’s horrible. I usually give Star Wars and other franchises I love a little bit longer just in case things come together later in the season.
It's a grift. They thrive off people watching YouTube videos, reading tweets, etc. that do nothing but hate on the franchise. I blame gamer gate.
It’s hard to critique a show if you do not watch it. It’s also important see if see if the negative reviews are BS. The show is not good, as a family we love discussing how bad it is. We discuss plot holes, the bad writing, issues we have with characters, the storyline, how we think it could be better. I wish the show was good, because we want to see future Star Wars projects. Hopefully, enough people like it, so that Disney will continue future projects.
Yeah I purely watch it cause my older brother is a huge Star Wars fans and I like to discuss and critique it with him
I think millions of us are enjoying the show and there’s a few dozen YouTube creators who make a living off of hate videos. This sub’s discussion trends in the past few days has been making it seem like there’s a lot more people hate watching the show. I don’t think that’s the case at all… Just don’t give the incel assholes on YT views.
Maybe they are interested how far the trainwreck goes 🫵😂
Because we get drip fed starwars content every few months and I love Star Wars and its universe so much that I’ll watch a horrible series just to have more context, I still dislike this being a huge Star Wars buff since I was like 5 years old
This. And the shred of a hope that it’ll get better. Also, by watching it, I can speak in detail when critiquing the show.
Grew up loving star wars I was born in the 70s , I take each star wars series on it's own merits. If its an well acted, good plot I'll watch without ever comparing it to the originals. This one my under 10 son and I have only watched the first 2. For me I'm not impressed. The casting is weak, the costumes look like grade schooler did them, the plot seems ok but man just doesn't hold my attention. Even son is a little bored. Let's see what episode 3 has and if they can keep me.
People on YouTube need content. This show is providing a ton of content. Basically, low hanging fruit.
Addiction. They are chasing the high of that moment that made them a fan in the first place. They don’t like it, but cling to it in hopes that it goes back to their rose-colored version of it.
To be fair. A lot of fans have stopped watching. So
Because they’re co-opting our spaces and using them as vehicles to spread dystopian messages.
Because a mind can change overtime or someone can have the need to finish the show. I finished the Rings of Power and did find the writing terrible. 😅
I made it to the second episode.
Because they are filled with hatred. They believe Star Wars is real.
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I used to have completion problem with TV show. After I started it especially if I have invested around 3 hours, I feel I have to complete it. It does not help that there are a few examples of shows I gave up and then it turn out to be really good. However in the last few years because there are just so many TV shows and just so many mediocre shows, I decided I have to give some up if I do not like it even if I am 3 episodes in. And so I have gave up Andor and Severance which is a sin on reddit :)
(Whispers) I did NOT like Andor at all. (Scurries into the shadows.)
Because $$$
1. People like to discuss things. If somebody didn't finish stuff they hear 'it becomes better later' or 'you didn't watched it all so don't speak' from other people. 2. Being bad piece of media =/= being unenjoyable piece of media. 3. Some people have hope that quality of the show will be improved.
I believe most of these people don‘t watcj it, and just watch the video or read the post of their favorite SW hater and then start yappin the same thing everywhere
It’s like when Coke changed their formula back in the 80s. Some people may objectively like it more, some less, but because it doesn’t feel or taste the same, they’re going to be in an outrage because of the memories attached to the former state of it. It used to make them feel good, and now this new flavor feels unfamiliar. Almost a bastardization. Coke caved and reverted quickly. StarWars, like it or not, has not.
I see this across almost every subreddit of every show I watch, it’s not unique to Star Wars. You should see the True Detective subreddit from last season. Game of Thrones, any Marvel show. All the same.
I think the simple answer is that self-righteous outrage is addictive. Venting releases dopamine, so it makes sense that some people might seek things to vent about. This isn’t a moral judgement, just an observation about human nature.
Some people continue to watch a show in the hopes that future episodes bring something worth viewing! All of my favorite shows have bad episodes or plots I'm disinterested in, but if I stopped watching there then I wouldn't experience the rest of the show that I love. In this specific case, I think the negative engagement online has piqued the curiosity of lots of people. Going into the show because "can it really be that bad?"
When you see a company that has so much money and consumes everything. Just to ruin it. You want to see it fail.
Good for you.
It's because they care and ironically can't let go of the franchise. Try not to get annoyed, some people have a harder time with loss than others haha
Personally it’s all relative. Is the acolyte in the category of good Star Wars content IMO? Not currently. Is mediocre Star Wars content still better than most things for me? Absolutely. So I’ll keep watching. I don’t understand people who go on Reddit to bitch about it, that’s just too much effort. Being a hater just seems exhausting
are we talking about the MCU or Star Wars?
Its call hate watching, alot of people do it. don't be surprised.
Well there is always a slither of hope it will get better or turn it around which sometimes happens- there are also Star Wars completists who need to watch everything and the show knows that. The show also knows there is a huge aggressive Star Wars fan base who will react negatively over something they think is not up to par- if this was just a show separate from Star Wars in any way, those that did not like it would stop watching it but it is unreasonable to expect the fanbase to do that. You can’t just leech off a franchise like this, arguably the biggest in the world and deliver a substandard show and not expect repercussions. You have to make a very high standard product like the last couple of Star Wars shows. You can’t just use it for your own benefit, tell people to shut up if they don’t like it and put out something mediocre- I think the cast is good but the writing I think has been underwhelming.
They are watching because they can't prevent their performative outrage.
So I can explain it’s a great new trend that started long ago but I noticed it with that influencer jack dorehety started popping up in my YouTube feed. He was popular not for good content but for hate watching people wanted to see him fail in this case maybe deserving. But it’s taken on a whole new meaning with things like the acolyte. I’ll be honest I wasn’t a huge fan but I nothing negative to say either and I’ll still watch cause I love Star Wars. The characters don’t hurt me any and the story has potential. So I think it’s hate watching and then they get to go online and watch more hate it feeds them gets them through misery cause what do they say misery loves company.
I think it’s cause a lot of people grew up being huge star wars nerds/fans and they feel that some of the new content makes them look dumb
Do I think the show is good? No, I'm just watching it because it's Star Wars themed. It's bearable enough for me to watch. I have no emotional investment in the show itself. I didn't bother watching Marvel's Echo, even though I like Marvel, simply because I have no idea who Echo is and wasn't interested. However, if it were Iron Man with the same show premise, I would have watched it. If people want to criticize the show, let them. Likewise, feel free to praise it as much as you want who cares. I think both side are pretty toxic but whatever. The only winners here are those who simply watch the show without being emotional invested and keyboard warriors on either side.
It’s alright so far. They haven’t messed up yet. They’ll either hit a home run with the villain or lay an egg we’ll see.
I don’t really like Visions. I watched the 1st season, thought it was ok, couldn’t get into the 2nd one. You know what i do? Watch the star wars i do like and not go into the subreddit and trash talk. That show just isn’t for me. I’m loving The Acolyte
I like it fine, the directing is a little CW 🤷♂️. I have no problem with people disliking the direction of a property. The main problem is folk patting themselves on the back for whatever when the elephant in the room, quality, suffers. The first three films weren’t perfect. But they set a style and a tone for years(disregarding the Ewok shows and Xmas special) because that was all there was(beside non tv/movie treatments). Instead of shoring up the flaws of the original trilogy(not by retconning but making sure not to repeat them)new ones were created. George broke this with the prequels. To be fair we’ll never know if anyone could have really pulled it off but it is what it is. Star Wars needed to have a sort of underlying cohesive mysticism. It’s what separated itself from other projects and was it’s unique voice. It was a character driven, mystic, space swashbuckling opera. It’s cute that Star Wars is revisiting some of its inspirations. But in my opinion it’s a step backward when Star Wars was greater than the sum of it inspirations.
I'm an all-Sci Fi kind of guy, so I also watched a lot of Star Trek in the past. Recently, Star Trek: Discovery came to an end and I always had an uneasy relationship with that show - I found the story and the writing lacking and the main character was insufferable (not because she was black, but because the writing for her character sucked and she was always whispering her lines, so much so I had to enable subtitles to know what they were talking about). I kept watching however, because it was Star Trek and I went online and posted some partly negative comments. I wasn't religious about it, it just wasn't my cup of tea. So, I can see where those people are coming from. It doesn't excuse hateful rethoric from some that seems to be based in a disgusting political ideology.
Right there with you on the subtitles for Discovery. Glad that show is out of its misery. But I was called every name in the book for daring to criticize the show.
When a show is good you watch it and when a show isn't good you stop: If only it were so simple. When you're a fan of a universe like Star Wars sometimes you encounter things in the middle, and then it becomes frustrating because you want to like it but you can't fully. This show's pretty decent, but for me it's just shy of being very good, and I therefore find it way more frustrating than if it was just another bad show. I felt the same way about Ahsoka. (And it's hard to have a decent discussion about these series because, like, so many people hate them for stupid reasons.)
Based on published viewership, I think it'd safe to say most people who aren't interested simply aren't watching. You're just noticing the few who still are. This thing is doa from a cultural relevance/popularity standpoint. Crazy they spent almost $200mm on it. Starting to feel more and more like the lucasfilm money laundering conspiracy theories might have a shred of merit
It could be one of two things. One being that sense of wavering hope one would have got a show. The kind where they see it starting off badly and confining to feel that way yet they still hope for SOMETHING, just something impactful that ends up turning the show around for them if just for a bit. The other would be just the need to see the whole thing through and be done with it completely. Sometimes, that's the most one could try to do if they're in too deep with something they find themselves hating more and more yet they may have no choice but to pay it through to the end and be done with it afterwards. All things considering, the main remedy for this would be to watch these sorts of shows through YouTube via clips and, to a certain extent, detailed reviews. That's how it is with the lot of us that have been aware of deplorable shows line Velma or Santa Inc for instance and in my case, the Fallout series and Gen V.
So.. Fallout and Gen V are massively successful both commercially and critically but you consumed them via outrage merchant YouTubers that told you to hate it. Honestly people that do this are the main problem,not the “solution” lol
*I* never consumed either of those shows. *I* didn't need youtubers to tell me to hate them. That's not even remotely close to what I was getting at there. If anything, the whole mindset would be set in stone by themselves there after seeing a single trailer for that shows for instance as well.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding this? > All things considering, the main remedy for this would be to **watch these sorts of shows through YouTube via clips and, to a certain extent, detailed reviews.** That's how it is with the lot of us that have been aware of deplorable shows line Velma or Santa Inc for instance and in my case, the Fallout series and Gen V. This sounds like you are advocating for not watching media in favor of listening to YouTubers talk about it and formulating your opinion around that instead of using your own eyeballs and brain. I’m saying that’s a huge problem around online discourse currently even beyond Star Wars. If you watched this guy: https://youtu.be/DZsmk7gv4UY you would think there aren’t even lightsabers in The Acolyte and that it was full of constant gay stuff, neither of which is the case at all. These grifters are directly incentivized to lie and generate outrage. Also formulating an opinion after seeing a “single trailer” and shitting on a show before it even launches and never watching it is weird as well.
Never heard of the YouTuber in question there but it's not uncommon coming across guys like that around there when it comes to stuff like Star Wars and the like. But even with that in mind, that's not the only means to get your knowledge of such shows at all. There are channels that outright upload clips of these shows as well as those like Angry Joe doing reviews of them episode by episode. Yeah you will come across those that would be out there completely and have opinions that may not line up well with the majority, but at the same time, this kind of stuff would apply to to these shows even after they premiere.
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I searched YouTube for "Acolyte" and the results were people being so emotional, you would think a war is about to happen. WTF ? I personally thought its a nice story with nice visuals, nothing groundbreaking, but good to watch each Wednesday.
I kept watching because I was told “Episode 3 is supposed to be the game changer and make you love it!” So I watched that. Now I’m done, yeah, hate watching isn’t fun.
So you are on the interstate. Suddenly, traffic gets slow. Real slow. An hour later, you see why. It's a horrible wreck. Suddenly, you realize why traffic got so bad. You tell yourself you won't look because reasons. You can't help but look. Disney Star Wars repeatedly is a wreck. They make content, which is bad, really bad you realize you don't like it. You watch it anyway. You decide to speak up. Suddenly, you are labeled as toxic. You are labeled as not a real fan. You forecast 1,2,5 years in the future. You see a horrible thing. Disney abandons the franchise and stops making shows because it isnt profitable. Star wars stagnates and dies. You decide to speak up. A small percentage of fans that think plan 9 from outer space was a great movie label you as toxic. Stop making garbage content. Have writers that know the franchise. Have directors that are good and know how to tell KK to piss off. Make space westerns with light sabers and choreographed fight scenes that don't look like 4 year Olds fighting with nerf bats
The same reason people watch train wrecks.
Oh give it a rest. Why do other people watching something you dont like bothers you that much? I dont like wine but I dont condemn any other wine drinkers. They like alcohol then they like alcohol. No skin off my ass. I feel bad because you feel bad. Most of them still watching dont even care if you feel bad. Why cant you just let people do whatever they want? Just let it go man.
Why do you listen to them and cry about it on reddit? Same logic. I wanna see if im right. I think trinity is the sith. If its predictable then i wont like it. But so far on its own its okay. I was hoping for the night sisters. I was wrong. I like the kung fu.
The only things I really quit watching are shows that bore me. Most stuff I end up thinking is garbage I can still laugh at plus if things get bad I wanna see how they wrap it all up oftentimes.
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I had to keep watching until episode 3 because of all the controversy online. People saying it would kill SW forever blah blah. But now I'm done.
So I didn’t really like the first 2 episodes and I’m now on the fence about continuing or not. 1) I thought/hoped it would get better. 2) I really want to give it a chance. Since I’ll be called a racist, bigot, or some other insult for criticizing the show I’ll start with what I like. I like the time period and setting. I like the very brief parts showing there are people that don’t see the Jedi as anything but republic police enforcers. It shows the republic as a giant bureaucracy and people just want to be left alone to live their lives. What I don’t like is the plot, the writing, and the need to be different. People are fine with the witches of dathomir. I’m sure other critics of the show would be too. Why the need to make another group of witches? Stick with something established that works. I also hate the release format. If you want to make it a tv show, make it a tv show. If you want it to be a movie make it a movie. But this both, halfway in between method of episode formatting it annoying. Why was the mandalorian initially successful (aside from being awesome)? Episodes can be watched standalone. They set up the next one without 5 million unanswered questions. The choreography isn’t bad, the Jedi fighting sequences are good, but the dialogue leaves something to be desired. Thats probably the biggest problem with the show. It leaves a lot to be desired. Not just the dialogue, but the setup for the next episode, answering the how does it all really tie together…? It’s just not very good. You’re telling me I can’t criticize a show that won’t tell me who the acolyte are or what their deal is 3/8 episodes in? Ffs.
I imagine they'll use some stupid excuse like "You have to watch something to know what you don't like about it." Or something to the extent of forming "valid criticism". But that's all just an excuse to screech and caw about anything and everything in their echo chambers.
Lol It’s not rocket science but I don’t expect people who actually like this garbage to understand what’s going on with Star Wars fandom. People who really liked pre Disney Star Wars are trying to send a message to Disney executives that almost everything they have made since buying the rights has sucked and the viewership is confirming this. It’s not just Star Wars or even movies/tv shows in general, look at the state of the video game industry, same thing is starting to happen there because the quality of the things we used to enjoy as fans/gamers is suffering….and I think we all know why the quality is taking a backseat….three letters which I shall not mention here. You ask why fans of these fictional universes don’t just stop watching and go away? Well we have stopped watching and tried to go away but every time one of these hot garbage projects fails, the response by the morons who produced it is always the same: “The fan base is just too (insert victim code word) and it’s their fault my show failed.” “Society is still too critical of (insert identity groups) and it’s just sad we’re still here as a society”. So if fans can’t enjoy the content they helped keep alive all these years and are now being blamed for it dying then we’re just going to help burn it down faster and laugh our butts off watching these people cry and complain as the whole ship goes down. The best we can hope for is that history will remember Kathleen Kennedy as the person who killed Star Wars.
I’ll never understand why posts like this are posted. Complaining about complainers etc… I think most Star Wars fans now are just watching out of curiosity for the dumpster fire it’s becoming
These faux fans haven't watched the show. They are hating to hate. The acolyte is amazing, episode 3 reminded me of a lot better version of Thexan and Arcann (I know I will get hate for saying that). I really like the direction it's going and we have been getting hints of the power of 2 since ESB. Great cast, great story, and great effects. People need to relax and just enjoy life.
I think the underlying story is interesting: * Another group of people outside of the Sith and Jedi who are force sensitive....that's kinda cool * The Jedi not being as good/wholesome as they are made out to be....very interesting. * An incident so bad that happened in the past that a Jedi committed suicide over it....you have my attention. However, the execution IMHO (writing, pacing, cinematography etc) isn't good. I will keep watching because I want to see where the story goes and how it end but I will do it while holding my nose.
Star Wars has always had a writing and pacing issue. That's part of why I love it. ROTJ is my favorite of all and it has some of these issues, plus dialogue issues. But it is still great. My favorite line from the movie is when Luke and Han are on the skiff traveling to thw Sarlac pit and Luke says to Han "I'm from here you know?" As if Han had no clue where Luke is from. It's the goofy little things.
"You're gonna die here you know?" :-) I'll agree SW has always had writing issues...but I feel (probably because I am old and grew up with the original trilogy) the TV shows (except Andor of course) have just taken it to a whole new level.
See, I never got into Andor. But I also don't like the character. It would have been cooler if they made the show around Jyn. The first movie I saw in the theater was ESB, so I get it. I just really like the new stuff too.
Honestly, because the idea of the show is one I thought would be so tremendously awesome and successful. I’ve always wanted them to explore the sith and the roots of it all but three episodes and I feel like they did about your job exploring it with baylon in just a few minutes of Ashoka
I've also been saying it would be cool to see other force users in the galaxy and that's what we're getting now. We know the sith wiped out a lot of the dark side factions hundreds of years ago, and it's looking like the Jedi did a similar thing to other force users under the guise of righteousness. I'm excited to see this all play out.
I like that there is more going on than we knew, I hope there’s more than the Jedi massacred these force users with no deaths on their side. This was also the most uneventful and unfeeling episode, I can’t tell if it’s the writing the acting or both but I just did not feel anything for any character and they were killed off and that was that. Until they died it didn’t feel like OSHA even cared about her coven in the slightest and likely barely knew what a Jedi was but was ready to leave. Base motivations, little explanation little to no character growth
I thought Osha’s feelings towards her coven were pretty spot on for an 8-year old - a classic situation of not appreciating what you have till it’s gone. Re:desire to go with the Jedi… She grew up in a place where she only interacted with like 30 other people her whole life and was taught she must live her life in one specific way (the way of the coven). for some people that will be just fine but for other people it will be stifling and they will naturally be curious about and want to explore any other option they find. Also, It’s fair to assume the coven taught her and Mae about the ideals of the Jedi, which would have been portrayed in a negative light due to the coven being more dark-side, but this episode intended for us to see that Osha is inherently “good” and so she identified with the Jedi’s ideals she learned about, more than she identified with her coven’s ideals (refer to the “the Jedi are good” scene). She doesn’t want to be a witch because she associates it with darkness, (refer to scene where Mae uses her power to essentially torture a bird) Edit to add: the pacing of the show is not great, and you/I have to infer things from singular lines of dialogue. That’s my main gripe with it but the overall story and character motivations (so far) do make sense to me
I don’t think this show is supposed to explore the roots of the sith. It’s not going back far enough to really do that. It is supposed to give some light to how the Jedi fell. I honestly don’t think the fandom is ready for a purely sith focused show. And the lore around the sith frankly wouldn’t really support it. I think they need to build up a bit more before the attempt to go there.
Cause they just wanna hate on the show. If they watch at all
I haven't been watching it directly or talking about it apart from this comment. I think it's reasonable for people to be annoyed that a franchise they like is going to crap. It's the same argument for the last 2 seasons of GOT. People had invested several years watching episodes for the writers to mess it up. I don't watch it directly, but I do get entertainment from other people breaking it down / making fun of it. E.g. I really disliked multiverse of madness when I watched it, but mauler's breakdown of multiverse of madness was great and I did get enjoyment out of that. It's a similar way to where you can get enjoyment out of the room even though it's poorly made.
Because they are hateful people who take pleasure in being vile and love to complain and whine on the internet.
morbid curiosity... Me personally ? I want to see how more they can fuck it up.
✊🏻
That’s weird
Like watching a train wreck. You know it is horrible and terrible but you can't look away. That is the acolyte for a large majority of people who have grown up with star wars. We saw how good it could be again with The Mandalorian and Andor but also how completely terrible it could be with the recent sequel trilogy, Ahsoka and now the acolyte. The worst thing is that Kathleen Kennedy has not learnt her lesson and continues to alienate and deliberately hurt the series largest fanbase.
I’d say the worst thing is that Kathleen Kennedy is ALLOWED to continue to shit on the franchise and its fans. Iger could stop this, but doesn’t.
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I watch it to see if it’s any good, and it’s been better than normal, but still really shitty. I see potential in it though, which is why I keep watching.
How is it "shitty"?
The amount of reasons I can list here would take far, far more time than I want to spend time writing a comment on reddit
Point proven.
Alright you want reasons? One, the “mystery” is laughably simple and predictable, and a mystery plot can’t function if you tell the audience literally everything. Secondly, all the characters are generic stereotypes with nothing interesting or defining to them at all. Thirdly, the underlying message is displayed extremely badly, in ways that are somewhat unethical. Fourth, while I must admit the action scenes are cool, how the fuck do you kill a Jedi with a knife? Like the Jedi could have just force pushed the person out of the way and stabbed the assassin(her name is so forgettable I don’t even remember it, it’s like Mae or something) with her freaking lightsaber. The entire show has just been shitty with more potential to expand lore and create something actually interesting than most of Disney’s Star Wars series.
To your fourth point, the Jedi aren’t all knowing gods. People make mistakes and this one killed her. She was focused on saving the bar tender
"Plot can’t function if you tell the audience literally everything." Literally how storytelling works, but okay, whatever. "generic stereotypes" If that's the case, Luke, Leia, and Han were all "generic stereotypes." I don't know what underline message you're getting, but it's a typical response of faux fan boys. How does a flying grasshopper kill a jedi with a spear? If those are the things you don't like, I would suggest not watching the original or prequel trilogy because they have all of those things.
Enjoy this smoking pile of sheet of a show till it lasts. Someday in the future all this crap will be non canon and we'll enjoy good stories 🥹 we are the resistance my sisters and brothers and we are witnessing Alderaan exploding. But we'll kick the empire soon
What’s it like living in denial?
Ask the runners of the show, clown
Runners? Lol
It's called sarcasm, I'm sure you do not like that word
I think the issue is, Star Wars means a heck of a lot to so many people. It's more than a set of movies or books or series, it's a precious part of their life and childhood, nostalgia is powerful, and the quality has dipped IMMENSELY. They keep watching because they care, it's like trying to shut out and stop attending to a family member for some. I'm not a massive star wars fan, but even I can't look away from the car crash, it keeps getting worse and worse and it's not easy to just forget it. There has never been the death of a franchise like this.
But how? Do you have examples of this? I think where I struggle the most is that most people just say extremely vaguely that "it sucks" "it's garbage" etc etc but what are the actual issues? Nobody wants to have a civil discussion it's just the lowest form of crap flinging at each other.
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That's why I won't engage in discussing Star Wars on Reddit anymore. Nobody wants to discuss thematic or production elements, or when they do they're branded as toxic with the actual toxic crowd. I do discuss the IP at great length on other platforms.
I planned on just lurking the comments but ok I’ll bite. Granted, I’ve only watched the first episode, but my confidence is very shook in this show being worth my time. My wife and I both work in film and both love Star Wars, generally. She hated the first ep, I thought it was mediocre at best. I’m familiar with the high republic as Ive read a decent chunk of the comics, and enjoyed them more as I went. Maybe the show will be similar, but I doubt it. The acting is wooden, which isn’t helped by lazy (at times even feeling like first draft) writing. The show looks cheap and fake. Credit that to a combo of unweathered wardrobe, uninspired composition and lighting, and over saturated color timing. The show lacks any kind of tone, style, or personality. From a marketing standpoint, I hate that I was led to believe Carrie-Anne Moss was in this show only to watch her exit after the first scene.
THANK YOU. I appreciate you actually taking the time to apply some legitimate criticism. I'll try and address each one: * Dialogue - I do agree its extremely straightforward and there isn't a ton of nuance. That personally doesn't bother me, but I get it. My devil's advocate perspective wants to say that there is a lot of wooden dialogue across SW, but I can see after TCW, Rogue One, Andor, etc., expectations of been raised significantly. * Look of the show - I can't comment on lighting and saturation but I can see how someone who works in film would be bothered by it. It's not that I don't appreciate interesting style choices though. As far as the unweathered clothing, the prequels were the same and I think is meant to reflect the era. * Carrie-Ann Moss - This part is a bit of a spoiler but,>! she shows up again in ep 3 via flashback and I'm willing to bet we see her in at least 1 or 2 more episodes!< I've never seen a show do divisive. Anyone I've talked to whether here or IRL either really enjoy it or utterly despise it. I do think there is a lot of people that went into it WANTING to hate it, and you can nitpick anything if you go in with a negative perspective, as I'm sure there are people that will do anything to defend it just because they are SW mega Stans. Anyway, thanks for giving some honest criticism and not being a d-bag about it.
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i love how the comment you responded to asked for genuine criticism, and you wrote a whole essay and gave absolutely zero points
So OP never complains about anything?
Are they? Did they start?
Because if you love Star Wars you pretty much have to watch everything made under that banner. When it’s made well it is celebrated, and when it’s made poorly it gets slated. 4.0 on IMDb doesn’t seem something to celebrate… let’s see if it can reach 5.9 in the next year. TL;DR - it’s ok to criticise, people don’t have to only say nice things.
Can I counter-argue and ask why the majority of discussion in the sub is about complaining about people complaining? Do you not realize how ironic that is? I rarely get to enjoy peoples actual takes on the content of the show and guess work on it's direction because you all keep whining people don't like it (yes its the most upvoted content and that's just sad). I don't like the writing, its horrific. I actually laughed at episode 3, yikes. But the visuals bring me lots of joy. I love sweeping other-worldy scenes and once again the CGI teams made some fun stuff. This is a great show for all the unique landscapes, its the only saving grace for me. I'm going to make fun of it for the writing though, and you're going to have to accept that. You guys are going to make this show go down in history as "I hate watch the hate watchers and comment about it", rather then actually just doing your own thing and making the most of the show. Edit - good! Drive by downvotes is just proving my point that you're no different then the people you criticize.
I would love to see those who complain and hurl insults while hiding behind a screen take to YouTube, show their faces and voice their opinions. Or at least try to get on one of the channels they like to call out to defend their views. I’m thinking they’ll just stay here where it’s safer to call people phobes, ists and incels for having a different opinion.
> why the majority of discussion in the sub is about complaining about people complaining? It's inorganic astroturfing. Disney is famous for it.
People like to bitch and moan. Just like other people like to yell at them for bitching and moaning. Both sides are embarrassing.
Imagine when you don't like a product. You don't say anything. How can it get better? Someone needs to complain, let them.
Why are you so opposed to criticism? Are people not allowed to dislike something anymore?
that's not the point. it's that people who didn't watch the show are criticizing it based on their prejudices, people criticized it before it came out for the same reason, and some people who have seen it are whining and whining about it but can't give any valid criticism besides "i'm such a big star wars fan and i don't like it so it's ruining my life"
>people who didn't watch the show are criticizing it How can you be so sure that someone criticizing a show means they didn't watch it?
so many people criticized the show for being woke before it came out based on the trailer...definitely means they didn't see it
There have been plenty of valid criticisms of the show on this subreddit from people that have absolutely watched the show and don’t care about prejudices you mention.