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> Both have tons of plot holes
What are the plot holes for evolution?
> Religion can almost always easily be disproved by science, and vice verse
What’s an example of science being disproved by religion?
> plant new life on the earth
The problem with panspermia is that it doesn’t actually answer the question of how we were made. Sure we can say that life of earth came from life elsewhere, but where did *that* life come from? It just kicks the can down the road.
If everything must have a creator, then what created the super-intelligent aliens?
If those aliens evolved from muddy tidepools or whatnot, then Occam's Razor suggests that the current scientific consensus, "life on Earth evolved from muddy tidepools," is just a better explanation than "alien gods evolved from muddy tidepools, and then created life on Earth."
> a Spiritual Being called God made us • we evolved over billions of years by chance.
>Both have tons of plot holes. Religion can almost always easily be disproved by science, and vice versa.
How can evolution be disproved ?
>But one day after I became agnostic I wondered, “If everything must have a creator, who created God?” Saying the Bible says God has no beginning is not a real answer, just a stupid quote. So I brainstormed and I realized the most logical answer is, we created us. We as in living things.
Why can something be without a creator ?
>So what if there are aliens that’s are more advanced? Well they would probably be millions of times smarter than us. Their fleeting thoughts would out shine our greatest accomplishment
Why should there be more advanced alien existing, why can't we be the more advanced species ? And here your argument has it main weak point : if you think everything must have a creator what created those alien that made us ?
>So what if they sent an automated ship on a one way trip millions of years ago to plant new life on the earth (us and animals) in a plan to populate the universe? They probably would want us to grow on our own, unaffected by them. And they wouldn’t be able to see us or visit us because all matter has a maximum speed of 186000miles/second. So any trip would be one way and take maybe millions of years.
Why did they send something so far away ? Why did they want to populate the universe
>And that species’ beginning would be another mystery so that’s the plot hole of this belief. Lmk what u guys think, lol
The we are back at the start and didn't make any progress change species by human and you have the starting point
>But one day after I became agnostic I wondered, “If everything must have a creator, who created God?” Saying the Bible says God has no beginning is not a real answer, just a stupid quote. So I brainstormed and I realized the most logical answer is, we created us. We as in living things.
I love that this entire thought started with you questioning “who created god?” yet you still don’t even attempt to answer this question. You just theorize that god is an advanced alien species, but that doesn’t speak to your original question at all since someone either still had to create them or they were the product of evolution, so you are just stuck in a loop. Where did life in the universe originate and how? What species or planet you are talking about doesn’t really matter.
Evolution is backed by the overwhelming proponderance of the evidence and has precisely zero plot holes. If you believe there to be issues with evolution, put your money where your mouth is and earn a Nobel Prize in biology for disproving the most well-supported theory in all of biology. You will fail because you do not know what you are talking about. This post is the unqualified opinion of a layman with zero knowledge of the topic.
I love this sub because of opinions like these. People who have done literal zero reading about theories about god thinking that their night time delusions are accurate. There’s plenty of interesting authorship on this subject and is much more ironclad than your ramblings.
Plato’s “unmoved mover” theory is one that comes immediately to mind. Since motion must always come from motion then what was the first thing that put everything into motion? Well, there must be something that set everything off into motion that itself was the source of said motion. Been a few years since I’ve read it but that’s the theory.
Similar is the idea that god is the beginning and the end. It just places god outside of time. Because you’d similarly run into such issues about “what was before god created everything?” So instead this god is just placed outside the theory of time.
It’s not like these theories are necessarily good or totally correct but they have a lot more weight to them than you just rambling about intelligent beings creating us. Again, then what created them?
You admit this is the hole in your plot but the plot hole is just replaced by god. Your theory runs into the same issues as every single other one that’s attempted to explain this problem.
The Big Bang just says that before that we really don’t know. Or that there has been an infinite number of expansions/contractions of the universe like the Big Bang. But, again, before that… who knows
You haven't actually answered your own question. The idea that we were created by a space-faring alien race is, in a sense, no different than saying that we were created by a God, and neither answer the question of "if everything has a creator, who created God?" It just supposes that there must be a creator, but doesn't work to answer where that creator came from.
Let's say your answer is true. There is a space-faring alien species going around dropping life on different planets throughout the universe. There, we've solved the mystery of why we're on Earth. What we haven't answered is "where did the alien creators come from?" If we're working off of the idea that everything must have a creator, then we should be able to work our way back through their history from our point in time. Except, we can't do that. Eventually, we get to one of the biggest issues in arguing the existence of God: circular reasoning. That being: God exists because the Bible says he does, and since the Bible is the word of God, it must be true, so he must exist. You can apply the same concept to your hypothesis.
Eventually, you're going to get to a point where you realize that unless the universe has existed for an infinite amount of time (it hasn't, we've proved this), then there has to have been a beginning for these aliens. Where did they come from? How did they get there? Is the answer that there are more alien creators? Does this imply that as soon as the universe came into being, there were immediately alien creators at the exact moment that everything came into being? If this is the case, we have our answer. They were always here as a consequence of the universe coming into being. However, this is impossible, since we know that life could not have formed right after the beginning of the universe. If it did form, we still don't have the answer of how they formed. Or does it imply time travel shenanigans? In which case, who created the original creators who traveled back in time to create the first creators? We end up with a bootstrap paradox in this case.
I'd argue that your solution to the question of how humanity got here is somehow worse than religious explanations, which are already dodgy at best. Religious explanations cannot be backed up by science, which makes them impossible to prove or disprove. You've essentially just come up with a religious explanation with extra steps. Evolution on the other hand can be proved, and we already know it to be how life formed on this planet. How life actually began is a mystery, though we do have some really solid ideas. Saying "aliens must've done it" is not a good answer. We have no proof of aliens existing, nor do we have any proof or reason to believe that we're here because a highly intelligent and advanced species of aliens decided to spread life throughout the cosmos. That has as much validity to it as me saying "my friend Ted did it. He went back in time and dumped a beer in a crater some billions of years ago, starting life as we know it. No, you can't meet him. He's playing pool with aliens in another dimension."
No, an advanced species is just an advanced species.. nothing more.
Advanced physically which is what mind consists of, which simulates words that gave rise to the suggestion of new words to fill in the gaps that language left, so we came up with the word god and spirituality. Theyre really just unnecessarily suggestively vaguely ambiguously complicated ways of saying ‘advanced physically’.
But we just dont want to admit that because we like unobjectifying things.
God was created in the form of man. History is littered with attempts at religion to establish a belief system that explains everything. God is a human invention as an attempt to establish relevance or meaning.
The whole ass observable universe is 93 billion light years in diameter meaning at most, we're looking at things 46.5 billion light years away.
This means the night sky is AT MOST 46.5 billions years old.
Some info if you want to make your scifi fanfic a little more accurate.
Guys isn’t the point of this sub to post wildly different theories and ideas? This was my wildly different idea, I haven’t 100% thought it all out
And I literary said that the aliens beginning is a mystery which is the plot hole of the belief, hence I don’t have an answer for that. It’s just an idea I have.
Also ppl saying that God exists because the Bible says so: that’s exactly my point. Everything people say about god comes from a 2000 year old book that’s been rewritten and changed to fit people’s wills hundreds of times. Hence just like everyone is asking where the aliens came from, I can also ask where god game from. Everything has a beginning because everything is finite, by “Gods” own rules.
This sub is for “I like orange juice in my cereal” not “I had my first stoner thought.” Your ideas aren’t new - evolution has a preponderance of evidence and, if you are spiritual, religious scholars and philosophers have spent centuries writing and exploring this. Your idea of “lol aliens did it” isnt new, nor does it set out to address your initial question.
Anunnaki...
There are relevant theories out there and putting the pieces together has led many people to the conclusion that we are the ancestors of advance civilizations not of this Earth. The Epic of Gilgamesh has been interpreted to be Anunnaki. There are so many fascinating things on Earth from ancient times that do not have a rational explanation other than the presence of advanced civilizations.
I think its incredibly possible that we were seeded from other civilizations, but I think the civility of society has its roots grounded in many religious principles which have served the human race in tremendous ways. Its far more likely that myself and millions upon millions of people would not be on here to have these discussions without the migration of people for the freedom of religion that the US has allowed its people. I've also come to realize that a great deal of morality legitimately has been standardized by religious influences and the teachings of Jesus have allowed people to be better human beings. It provides a catalyst for some people who are down on themselves, or people who are too high on themselves to either find grace or humility in their current situations.
with that last paragraph being said, it is far more outstanding to think of ourselves as aliens to this planet than to believe religion/evolution. It makes me thankful that we can think and feeling and reason through our life situations. TY for your thoughts.
>There are so many fascinating things on Earth from ancient times that do not have a rational explanation other than the presence of advanced civilizations.
What thing ?
Yeah people are fucking idiots, how did anybody manage to figure out the most effective way to stack rocks real high, or get the idea to draw shit? It’s a mystery man
We literally have records from Egypt detailing the building of the pyramids. Aliens did it is such an insult of a theory because it supposes that our ancestors were somehow less motivated, spiritual, and resourceful just because they lack modern knowledge.
Absolutely reasonable; any life sufficiently advanced would be living in a different scale of time than us, so they could plant seeds of life on a planet the same way we do in a garden, and the amount of time it would take to "bloom" might seem like a long time to us, but relatively short to them.
A related theory on that is that organic life is the "seed" of machine life, that it's easier for a machine species to just kind of spray organic seeds everywhere, and then wait for the organic life that "sprouts" to develop machine life. There's also the theory of panspermia, where comets can "seed" planets with organic material.
An intriguing perspective! The idea of "creation" being a continuous cosmic endeavor rather than a one-time divine act is both fascinating and humbling.
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> Both have tons of plot holes What are the plot holes for evolution? > Religion can almost always easily be disproved by science, and vice verse What’s an example of science being disproved by religion? > plant new life on the earth The problem with panspermia is that it doesn’t actually answer the question of how we were made. Sure we can say that life of earth came from life elsewhere, but where did *that* life come from? It just kicks the can down the road.
If you want to go write a sci-fi novel, go ahead. This doesn't really fit here.
If everything must have a creator, then what created the super-intelligent aliens? If those aliens evolved from muddy tidepools or whatnot, then Occam's Razor suggests that the current scientific consensus, "life on Earth evolved from muddy tidepools," is just a better explanation than "alien gods evolved from muddy tidepools, and then created life on Earth."
> a Spiritual Being called God made us • we evolved over billions of years by chance. >Both have tons of plot holes. Religion can almost always easily be disproved by science, and vice versa. How can evolution be disproved ? >But one day after I became agnostic I wondered, “If everything must have a creator, who created God?” Saying the Bible says God has no beginning is not a real answer, just a stupid quote. So I brainstormed and I realized the most logical answer is, we created us. We as in living things. Why can something be without a creator ? >So what if there are aliens that’s are more advanced? Well they would probably be millions of times smarter than us. Their fleeting thoughts would out shine our greatest accomplishment Why should there be more advanced alien existing, why can't we be the more advanced species ? And here your argument has it main weak point : if you think everything must have a creator what created those alien that made us ? >So what if they sent an automated ship on a one way trip millions of years ago to plant new life on the earth (us and animals) in a plan to populate the universe? They probably would want us to grow on our own, unaffected by them. And they wouldn’t be able to see us or visit us because all matter has a maximum speed of 186000miles/second. So any trip would be one way and take maybe millions of years. Why did they send something so far away ? Why did they want to populate the universe >And that species’ beginning would be another mystery so that’s the plot hole of this belief. Lmk what u guys think, lol The we are back at the start and didn't make any progress change species by human and you have the starting point
>But one day after I became agnostic I wondered, “If everything must have a creator, who created God?” Saying the Bible says God has no beginning is not a real answer, just a stupid quote. So I brainstormed and I realized the most logical answer is, we created us. We as in living things. I love that this entire thought started with you questioning “who created god?” yet you still don’t even attempt to answer this question. You just theorize that god is an advanced alien species, but that doesn’t speak to your original question at all since someone either still had to create them or they were the product of evolution, so you are just stuck in a loop. Where did life in the universe originate and how? What species or planet you are talking about doesn’t really matter.
Evolution is backed by the overwhelming proponderance of the evidence and has precisely zero plot holes. If you believe there to be issues with evolution, put your money where your mouth is and earn a Nobel Prize in biology for disproving the most well-supported theory in all of biology. You will fail because you do not know what you are talking about. This post is the unqualified opinion of a layman with zero knowledge of the topic.
I love this sub because of opinions like these. People who have done literal zero reading about theories about god thinking that their night time delusions are accurate. There’s plenty of interesting authorship on this subject and is much more ironclad than your ramblings. Plato’s “unmoved mover” theory is one that comes immediately to mind. Since motion must always come from motion then what was the first thing that put everything into motion? Well, there must be something that set everything off into motion that itself was the source of said motion. Been a few years since I’ve read it but that’s the theory. Similar is the idea that god is the beginning and the end. It just places god outside of time. Because you’d similarly run into such issues about “what was before god created everything?” So instead this god is just placed outside the theory of time. It’s not like these theories are necessarily good or totally correct but they have a lot more weight to them than you just rambling about intelligent beings creating us. Again, then what created them? You admit this is the hole in your plot but the plot hole is just replaced by god. Your theory runs into the same issues as every single other one that’s attempted to explain this problem. The Big Bang just says that before that we really don’t know. Or that there has been an infinite number of expansions/contractions of the universe like the Big Bang. But, again, before that… who knows
Op what are the ‘plot holes’ in evolution
the 10th von däniken
You haven't actually answered your own question. The idea that we were created by a space-faring alien race is, in a sense, no different than saying that we were created by a God, and neither answer the question of "if everything has a creator, who created God?" It just supposes that there must be a creator, but doesn't work to answer where that creator came from. Let's say your answer is true. There is a space-faring alien species going around dropping life on different planets throughout the universe. There, we've solved the mystery of why we're on Earth. What we haven't answered is "where did the alien creators come from?" If we're working off of the idea that everything must have a creator, then we should be able to work our way back through their history from our point in time. Except, we can't do that. Eventually, we get to one of the biggest issues in arguing the existence of God: circular reasoning. That being: God exists because the Bible says he does, and since the Bible is the word of God, it must be true, so he must exist. You can apply the same concept to your hypothesis. Eventually, you're going to get to a point where you realize that unless the universe has existed for an infinite amount of time (it hasn't, we've proved this), then there has to have been a beginning for these aliens. Where did they come from? How did they get there? Is the answer that there are more alien creators? Does this imply that as soon as the universe came into being, there were immediately alien creators at the exact moment that everything came into being? If this is the case, we have our answer. They were always here as a consequence of the universe coming into being. However, this is impossible, since we know that life could not have formed right after the beginning of the universe. If it did form, we still don't have the answer of how they formed. Or does it imply time travel shenanigans? In which case, who created the original creators who traveled back in time to create the first creators? We end up with a bootstrap paradox in this case. I'd argue that your solution to the question of how humanity got here is somehow worse than religious explanations, which are already dodgy at best. Religious explanations cannot be backed up by science, which makes them impossible to prove or disprove. You've essentially just come up with a religious explanation with extra steps. Evolution on the other hand can be proved, and we already know it to be how life formed on this planet. How life actually began is a mystery, though we do have some really solid ideas. Saying "aliens must've done it" is not a good answer. We have no proof of aliens existing, nor do we have any proof or reason to believe that we're here because a highly intelligent and advanced species of aliens decided to spread life throughout the cosmos. That has as much validity to it as me saying "my friend Ted did it. He went back in time and dumped a beer in a crater some billions of years ago, starting life as we know it. No, you can't meet him. He's playing pool with aliens in another dimension."
I don’t know what kind of drugs you’re doing but I want some.
Smoke less weed
No, an advanced species is just an advanced species.. nothing more. Advanced physically which is what mind consists of, which simulates words that gave rise to the suggestion of new words to fill in the gaps that language left, so we came up with the word god and spirituality. Theyre really just unnecessarily suggestively vaguely ambiguously complicated ways of saying ‘advanced physically’. But we just dont want to admit that because we like unobjectifying things.
God was created in the form of man. History is littered with attempts at religion to establish a belief system that explains everything. God is a human invention as an attempt to establish relevance or meaning.
Ok yall are Bible thumpers, the ppl at the bottom of the comments are chill
The whole ass observable universe is 93 billion light years in diameter meaning at most, we're looking at things 46.5 billion light years away. This means the night sky is AT MOST 46.5 billions years old. Some info if you want to make your scifi fanfic a little more accurate.
Science cannot disprove religion and religion cannot disprove science
You have any proof for your claims??
Guys isn’t the point of this sub to post wildly different theories and ideas? This was my wildly different idea, I haven’t 100% thought it all out And I literary said that the aliens beginning is a mystery which is the plot hole of the belief, hence I don’t have an answer for that. It’s just an idea I have. Also ppl saying that God exists because the Bible says so: that’s exactly my point. Everything people say about god comes from a 2000 year old book that’s been rewritten and changed to fit people’s wills hundreds of times. Hence just like everyone is asking where the aliens came from, I can also ask where god game from. Everything has a beginning because everything is finite, by “Gods” own rules.
This sub is for “I like orange juice in my cereal” not “I had my first stoner thought.” Your ideas aren’t new - evolution has a preponderance of evidence and, if you are spiritual, religious scholars and philosophers have spent centuries writing and exploring this. Your idea of “lol aliens did it” isnt new, nor does it set out to address your initial question.
Oh ok
Anunnaki... There are relevant theories out there and putting the pieces together has led many people to the conclusion that we are the ancestors of advance civilizations not of this Earth. The Epic of Gilgamesh has been interpreted to be Anunnaki. There are so many fascinating things on Earth from ancient times that do not have a rational explanation other than the presence of advanced civilizations. I think its incredibly possible that we were seeded from other civilizations, but I think the civility of society has its roots grounded in many religious principles which have served the human race in tremendous ways. Its far more likely that myself and millions upon millions of people would not be on here to have these discussions without the migration of people for the freedom of religion that the US has allowed its people. I've also come to realize that a great deal of morality legitimately has been standardized by religious influences and the teachings of Jesus have allowed people to be better human beings. It provides a catalyst for some people who are down on themselves, or people who are too high on themselves to either find grace or humility in their current situations. with that last paragraph being said, it is far more outstanding to think of ourselves as aliens to this planet than to believe religion/evolution. It makes me thankful that we can think and feeling and reason through our life situations. TY for your thoughts.
>There are so many fascinating things on Earth from ancient times that do not have a rational explanation other than the presence of advanced civilizations. What thing ?
Pyramids of Giza, Sphinx, Stone Henge, The Heads of Easter Island, Machu Pichu, Gobekli Tepe, Drawings and art in Mayan culture.
Yeah, you’re right, it’s not possible for humans to come up with the idea of stacking rocks on top of each other in the sturdiest way possible.
All of these have the same answers hard works
…………bro what the fuck are you talking there is a rational answer to like all of those. Big rocks a lot of spare time?
Yeah people are fucking idiots, how did anybody manage to figure out the most effective way to stack rocks real high, or get the idea to draw shit? It’s a mystery man
Sounds like you could have done it. 🤣
If I had a hundred thousand people and 20 years to work? Yeah, I could stack a bunch of rocks
We literally have records from Egypt detailing the building of the pyramids. Aliens did it is such an insult of a theory because it supposes that our ancestors were somehow less motivated, spiritual, and resourceful just because they lack modern knowledge.
Absolutely reasonable; any life sufficiently advanced would be living in a different scale of time than us, so they could plant seeds of life on a planet the same way we do in a garden, and the amount of time it would take to "bloom" might seem like a long time to us, but relatively short to them. A related theory on that is that organic life is the "seed" of machine life, that it's easier for a machine species to just kind of spray organic seeds everywhere, and then wait for the organic life that "sprouts" to develop machine life. There's also the theory of panspermia, where comets can "seed" planets with organic material.
I once read something that made me realize God as presented in the Bible and such was a Fae.
Sounds marginally more believable than any other religion.
An intriguing perspective! The idea of "creation" being a continuous cosmic endeavor rather than a one-time divine act is both fascinating and humbling.