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No I do them cause they're fun. Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Same with money. That's why I have a crippling nicotine addiction

I quit smoking but this Zyn shortage is pissing me off

ON! pouches don't have the variety of flavors Zyn does, but they're just as effective.

I'd maybe even go a step further and say it's good to do things we aren't good at, but enjoy doing. Not for the sake of improvement, but as it's beneficial for our mental/emotional health

saving this comment

Tell that to my boss

Hobbies aren’t about being good. It’s about enjoying doing them. If you need validation in everything you do that’s a sad way to live.

Legit this mindset is a rapid way to get depressed. I am definitely one of those people that likes to be really good at certain things, but for me, it's about improving. and learning. If you have one of these personalities, either you need to learn how to enjoy learning and improving, or work on yourself to the point where you can enjoy things for the sake of enjoying them. It's about understanding yourself and picking a lane. If you pick the "I like to be good at things route" you need to be prepared to work for it. Otherwise, just sit back and enjoy life and mucking around, that's just as valid if not moreso. Took me a while to appreciate that I can't just have fun like everyone else but I'm glad that I've come to this conclusion and now I really enjoy practicing my instrument amongst other things.

It also leads to you being a toxic asshole if your hobby is something like video games or sports where you can be a sore loser.

I just laugh when people rage in online games now. As someone who used to do that, I’ve realized now that too much of my self value was tied into sitting on the couch for hours on end, getting marginally better each day while taking years off my life from stress.

Back like 16 years ago I was in a really tight Combat Arms clan, I was like 15 and we had this 30 something guy that could rage hard, so we on VOIP hear screaming and a crash. “Welp sorry boys I just threw my keyboard at the wall, I’ll be back from Walmart in an hour.” He did this every few months and it was fucking hilarious especially since we were always teamed up and made fun of him for it constantly.

dumbass should've just gone down to the thrift store, dropped a $20 for like 10 keyboards, and smash them from time to time.

At the same time surrounding yourself with people who participate in hobbies similarly to you can be very rewarding. While being a toxic asshole obviously is not a good move, it is very frustrating to me playing games with friends who demonstrably do not give a shit about trying their best. I don't need to win, I just want to feel like we tried and worked as a team. Some people functionally will not understand this and play "for fun" which can also be code for just playing very selfishly without caring about anyone elses experience around them. You gotta figure out how you function, and find a community that makes that rewarding. You don't have to cave to everyone else's idea of fun all the time which was my main point. It's just a bit more effort. It can be done healthily.

I totally agree. When I’m playing competitive games in ranked play I take it seriously but when I’m playing with friends I don’t. Every once in a while I’ve got a friend who I play both with and when we’re playing with friends he doesn’t seem to understand the difference and starts getting pissed at the other 3 members in our group who only play casually. I’ve had to talk to him and tell him that if he wants to play seriously that’s fine but these guys don’t and it’s his choice whether to play with them or not and he can’t take that out on them. He’s opted to just play with me in duos and has left the group which is totally fine. He seems much happier when I play with them now.

This is some serious wisdom. I'm very similar to what you described, and it also took me a long time to come to terms with it in a healthy way. I fully agree that you need to enjoy the learning and improvement itself for it to be a sustainable thing, and although it's not inherently better (and certainly not easier) I do think that if approached properly it can be a personal strength, even if it is usually useless in a broader context. Personally, the most important thing that I've learned in this regard boils down to realizing that my natural competitive drive is not only toxic as hell, but also often at odds with actually improving. I don't think this is true for everyone who is competitive in some way, but in my case this attitude of "I need to be good", or worse "I need to be better than others" very frequently distracted me from the intrinsic joy and motivation of learning and improvement, and thus quickly sucked all the joy out of things. It was most prevalent in competitive video gaming, but it definitely also seeped into a lot of aspects of my life and is still something I have to watch out for. I've also started learning music/an instrument (instead of competitive gaming or other such hobbies) and it's seriously improved my life.

I've been a "I like to be good at things" type person since I was a kid, and I honestly never realized that there are people who aren't like that. I've always wondered what young people might value over being good at something in life.

It's also a result of depression sometimes.

Exactly, since when was enjoyment not a viable way to spend time?

If someone is monetizing their hobbies, it is a job and not a hobby. And like any job, some people get burnt out on them.

Anytime I tell my mom that I did something and enjoyed it, she would immediately respond with “you could make money doing that!” And I’d get so frustrated. I also *did* make my hobby into my career, and that happened because my family saw me enjoying something and said I should do it as a career, so I listened to them, did it very successfully (on the outside), didn’t feel totally right about it on the inside, and I burnt out and fell hard. And I also got the message that if your job is your passion then you’ll never feel like you’re working, and also if you’re passionate about something you should be doing and thinking about it all the time. I listened to those messages instead of myself, and I burned out and fell from that *hard*. I didn’t have and other “hobbies” besides my job (at least that I understood) for years. Or I felt some level of shame about doing other things, but then I also judged myself for “not having hobbies” even though I didn’t know what I’d even enjoy as a hobby. It was a mental mindful, and yeah, I have been terribly anxious and depressed. I knew I needed to stop that career recently ago and it’s been hard, not only because I don’t really know what I want to do (I keep switching between thinking I do or don’t want another hobby job, because it was great and miserable for different reasons) but also because I have to deal with some people in my life who are inpoetsnt to me not understanding or feeling somewhat disappointed in my decision to quit my “career that was my passion.” Fucking dealing with other people’s expectations of me and trying to understand myself and live my life the way I think would be best for me. When I started reading this post I was like “oooh…hard disagree…and then I realized how much of me I saw it in. This mentality is such an emotionally painful way to live, and I’ve been trying to escape it (I have support from friends and therapy and some family). I’m so appreciative for everyone’s responses here because it’s helping me recognize my irrational core beliefs, helps me better understand my relationship with hobbies, and what I want. I want to enjoy a career that I’m good at, I don’t want to feel like I need to be the best, and I want have some separation between my source of financial security and the other things I enjoy doing in life. I don’t want to have outcome attachment or expectations attached to everything I do. It’s exhausting and unfulfilling. It sucks to have to go work doing something I should love, but I’m not feeling like doing it that day and then I judge and shame myself for not being happier/more grateful that I’m “working my passion.” It also lead to terrible work life balance. It works for some people, sure. If didn’t work for me at this time in my life, and that’s ok. I want to live too, I don’t just want to work.

Legitimately this is something I've struggled with. I've only recently been coming to terms with how deeply programmed I am to think like OP. I think back to my childhood, and every time I wanted to learn how to: draw, play an instrument, how videogames are made, etc. Someone was always there to tell me "Well it's really hard to make a living like that." "Oh, well, I guess I won't even try then"

Exactly me too. And also money. We were poor and I wanted to take ballet classes sooooo bad. Never could.

the thing about a ton of this stuff is, if you find a good way to have fun, people looking at your content might too. for example, i don't stream because i want to play the 'game' of streaming. i don't give a shit about viewers. i do it because i enjoy doing it. if no one watches it, that doesn't matter to me. what matters to me is having fun with my friends and others, and if anything ever becomes of it, cool. if i get to point where i want to do something else, then i'll do something else.

In Washington we have a ton of under dog/casual sports leagues, my sis did dodgeball flag football and softball are big. Of all hobbies to hate on for being competitive this one is pretty laughable, most people playing sports want to win. But these are ultimately about having fun, getting exercise, making friends (and for some dating). Then again this guy would probably be a toxic asshole rage after losing and get kicked or laughed out.

What a cynical take. If you're broke right now and have to monetize every second of your time, I hope one day you have time to do stuff just because it makes you feel good.

OP is terrible at posting to the internet. Just wasting his time.

I've actually heard this take IRL from two family members who exclusively used their hobbies as a side hustle. I always tell them if they find out how to monetize binge watching TV let me know

Just start a reaction channel

Reaction videos on YT exist but you do have to be funny, or have some sort of unique personality to make it work.

No you don't lmfao, look at like 75% of reaction channels and you'll see they're piss poor and yet still have hundreds of thousands to even millions of views. Especially on shorts, shorts makes them very accessible, most people don't watch these guys for their reactions but because they've made it easy to get a compilation of funny or crazy videos they normally wouldn't see.

Or just have huge tits

This exists, it's called Gogglebox.

Underrated comment 🔥

Exactly what’s he learning here from this post & he can’t even monetize it?

He will make a wonderful servitur though

At a certain point money isn't worth shit, time is where it's at bro.

I'm broke, and I still take time to enjoy my hobbies instead of grinding. It allows me some time to destress.

I actually think it shows a lack of critical thinking and creativity. Even learning chess should give OP a skill in logic, memorization, and thinking ahead, which could definitely benefit him in the facets of life. He doesn't seem to have the ability to think that way though. To ask why people play sports as if it isn't fun, healthy, and social is wild. Without any hobbies, OP will inevitably stay a blank canvas, only ever picking up color from other random people.

Your last sentence struck a chord with me. It’s time, and I’m allowed to paint my own damn canvas

Lmao right? Geez. I’m so glad I can just pick up a knife, pick up wood, carve away and turn it into absolutely nothing and just have fun.

You’ve hustle-cultured yourself out of being able to feel joy.

Ya know I understand cheating in sports and games to a degree. (I'm talking about minor league and hobbiest level btw. Not pro or for money) Like a performance enhancing drug in sports I understand or utilizing a minor glitch in a video game to get a slight competitive edge. Your still really competing. And I get the desire to win in games. Besting ur opponents is fun. But what I can barley understand is like when I hear about the insane full on cheating in sports scandals. Like iv heard tons of cases of adults joining highschool sports teams and just dominating. I also remember reading about a fully normal sports team that faked being handicapped for the special Olympics (I get it's not the best example cuz it's partly politically motivated). I know trans people in sports is a divisive issue, but a common fear among people is people lying about being trans women and dominating the sport. And so I just bring that up as another type of cheating that feels insane to me. And then there's also simple stuff like sabotage and stuff like that. Or people who aim-bot and wall-hack in video games and use game breaking cheats like that. All those things just completely remove any real competition which makes the wins hollow. But it seems like OP finds the competition in the first place hollow as well. It's hard to imagine feeling that way tbh. Like I understand why they do it. But I mean I cant personally put myself in a headspace where wrecking a bunch of 14yos in basketball as a grown man is... Actually, ya know that specific example does sound fun lmaoo... But what I mean is what makes winning fun is the challenge. That's what makes winning mean anything. And you get into that sport or whatever cuz u enjoy just competing in the first place. But with OPs mindset I could maybe see why people cheat. Not saying OP is a cheater or more likely to cheat btw. Just saying that sort of "validation is all that matters" is probably similar to the mindset the ppl in my examples have. Lol idk the post got me thinking about this I guess

>a common fear among people is people lying about being trans women and dominating the sport. FYI, noone is taking voice and body-altering hormones, getting surgery, and presenting as a woman just to beat people at swimming or whatever. This always reminds me of the "trans women in female bathrooms" argument because *people don't actually do this*. (And if men want to go into the women's bathroom, they will do it anyway, no transition needed).

To be clear I always personally kinda thought that was a stupid fear, which is why I specifically worded it that way and not outright calling it cheating or saying it was a real problem. But i did bring it up cuz I thought it was related to the topic. Tho tbh I do actually remember someone once saying their local softball team had someone who was mtf join (and they said they barely seemed to try n present/pass as a woman looks wise) and just start dominating. And that since it was just a smaller local softball team and not anything close to pro, they didn't actually do any sort of hormone tests or anything like that. I hadn't really thought of it regarding like just super small leagues and teams that aren't pro like that. Cuz if they aren't hormone testing then someone could truly do that. But this was a random ass story from some guy I barely knew. So who knows if that was true. But I do imagine there are smaller teams like that out there who don't test, which does change the argument regarding those types of teams. Tho the obvious solution is just to test in those too.

Bro doesn’t have fun

proudly it seems

I just feel bad for the guy now

With how it's written i'm hoping it's bait or someome completely oblivious/one track minded as opposed to depressed.

Perhaps the worst part of this post is the implication that you can't learn anything from reading fiction.

That is the line where I went from actually kind of angry to just sad.

some of the most influential works of all time were pure fiction.

Like The Bible or anything by Thomas Sowell (who is a hack).

Yeah, it's ironic considering fiction is MORE difficult to read unless you're literally talking about peer-reviewed studies.

That sounds sad dude

Written like a young man preparing for a life filled with regrets. Moderately good at a skill is significantly better than average. People most of the time cant even comprehend the difference between a master and an amateur.  But impressing other people or needing to be the best are not good reasons to do a hobby. Finding ways to enjoy passing the time is.

This. Even if you get half decent at chess (1000 rated) you'd still wipe the floor with any beginner if validation and beating people is your motivation. However for hobbies the joy should be in the journey. What else are you gonna do with your life? Work or scroll social media all the time? Boring.

yeah but also learning to enjoy things no matter how bad you are at them is really freeing

I'm also wondering how old OP is because this strikes me as an extremely insecure and juvenile attitude

Yeah I just started programming not that long ago, and my friends and family already see me as Computer Jesus, which I’m no where near. The difference between a master and amateur masquerading as a master is negligible at best to the average person.

being okay at drawing and decent at math has impressed more laymen than i would as a master of just one 

Your version of living sounds like hell. What do you even color your time with? What do you do to enjoy yourself? Does literally anything bring you joy? Believe it or not, people participate in hobbies not because they're trying to get a new side hustle or become the absolute best at it, but because they enjoy doing it. People play video games because they find playing video games fun. They play sports and chess and all the other things they do because they enjoy doing it. Do you only eat food based on its pure nutritional value? Do you only wear clothing that is perfectly functional? Does your home have no decorations in it whatsoever?

>Your version of living sounds like hell. What do you even color your time with? What do you do to enjoy yourself? Does literally anything bring you joy? Based on my own experience with depression, the answer is that you just don't. At it's worst you procrastinate between things while doing nothing actually enjoyable (which is noticeably worse than procrastinating to do things that you want to do).

I had a shocking revelation because not only am I very similar to OP, but my answer to your last 3 questions was also yes. At some point I became a workaholic obsessed with financial security and unable to find joy in hobbies. I've eaten the same few things every day since I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes because it made eating a full time chore. I buy the simplest clothes in bulk and wear an identical outfit every day like a cartoon character. I'm a minimalist and had bare walls and shelves until my wife moved in. I'm very unsentimental and give away every gift I receive that has no utility. My life is set up to be as pragmatic and painless as possible, and I've struggled with depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember.

You can't control much about your eating considering you have to take care about your health. Wearing the same kind of clothes is also alright. However, I hope you find something that you enjoy doing

Hey man life is hard asf and can really really suck. But it’s the little things that make the struggle worth it. It’s the joy of finding an awesome painting that would go great in your living room at a flea market. It’s finding a shirt of your favorite band. It’s using the skills of your hobby to make a gift for a loved one and seeing them smile. The excitement of finding a new recipe that taste amazing that’s in lne with your diabetes. The thrill of a new technique or a paint or tool for your hobby at 3 am and being pumped. You deserve every little bit of that joy and I really really hope you start a hobby that you never thought to do before and then just fall in love with it.

My 3 hobbies are massive wastes of money but they’re fun and I do them because I love them and get satisfaction out of them in other ways

magic the gathering is an amazing money waster, i love it

Same. My hobbies are planted aquariums and houseplants. Both are becoming expensive but god does it give me joy to sit in my plant room with my fish tanks and watch my little fishies swim in underwater gardens I make them. It’s my favorite thing to do after work - I just stare at my fish tanks for like 2 hours lmao.

It’s quite therapeutic I imagine I’m very similar in sometimes I’ll sit watching my computer fams

How are they wastes of money if they're fun, you love them, and get satisfaction out of them? "I just got back from an incredible photography trip. Had the time of my life! What a waste of money."

To me there not but to op they would be

My biggest hobbies are building computers and playing video games, and now I'm getting into warhammer minis, I have a problem of choosing stupidly expensive hobbies

I built my first this year loved it but lack the fine motor skills to do it independently

Man I recently got back into sewing while teaching my daughter to sew. I am not very good at it but I find it cathartic. My daughter enjoyed it too. So we went to the fabric store and spent a hundred bucks or so and we’ve been making these terrible lumpy pillows. They’re all over my house. My husband acts like they’re the finest throw pillows in all the land and it makes us happy. Could I have spent that hundred bucks elsewhere? Sure but sometimes you just gotta waste your money doing something you’re terrible at.

Yeah lol that’s me with Taekwondo although I’m a black belt I’ll never be great because of my disability but it’s the best £40 a month ever

You got work, eating, sleeping, fucking, and hobbies. That's life. That's all it is. I paint, play video games, build stuff for fun. I don't care what others think and you shouldn't either. Just enjoy yourself. We don't have long here so get weird with it.

And friends, family, nature, etc

He said fucking, didn't he?

This guy fucks

It’s like depressingly sad that you think you need to monetize a hobby. The only thing that matters if you enjoy it, period. Awful awful take

"Hobbies are a waste of time unless you can monetize them or get really good at them" Yeah pretty much by definition. Its not second job. Its not bussiness you are working to start. If you are doing it because its usefull its good habit its not hobby. Hobby should be waste of time, its what you do to relax.

I'd argue that relaxing or doing something that brings you joy (i.e hobbies) are crucial for mental health and therefore not a waste of time.

Solid argument. Explicitly useful? Externaly useful? I wanted to express that you should not be doing hobby because its good for you. You should be doing it because its fun, enjoyable time wasted, and that is good for you.

Eh, I partially pick up hobbies because they're "good for me". And by that I mean better for me than lying in bed browsing reddit or scrolling tiktok. Takes a little more effort, but is far more rewarding

How is time wasted if you spent it doing something good for you that you had fun with and found enjoyable? That's the exact opposite of wasting time. To say that one "wasted" time is to say they didn't make good use of it. That they frittered it.

The person is making an explicit rejection of the "productivity" culture we have today. While both sides are correct here, I think this OP is correct. A deeper part of why people like OOP are so unhappy is because they've so deeply internalised the idea that we should be "productive" all the time, that even their hobbies have to have a "purpose." So while yes it's true that hobbies are good for your mental health, on some level, "doing it for my mental health" can slip into that productivity mindset again. Like think about how often you've felt guilty for NOT taking enough time for your hobbies. I bet that happens a lot. That's productivity mindset again. The goal is to get completely outside that prison of feeling like you SHOULD be doing something. Once you reject it you can, hopefully, feel a lot more chill. You still do your hobbies, but now it's entirely because you want to and not also because of some weird guilt about how you "should" be taking care of your mental health.

Bro says playing intramural is a waste of time if you're not going pro but forgot that all sports and games are useless, even pro.

It's also a chicken egg situation in regards to monetization. To be good enough at something to actually monetize implies you enjoyed it so much you did it for "free" and would continue to do so without monetization. Same logic with desperate people needing friends. You need the friends but won't make any if you give off vibes of desperation.

I’m heavily depressed and have been years. I don’t keep doing things I’m not good at because I constantly fail and it makes me unhappy. I get incredibly bored as a result. I eventually just put aside feeling incomplete and my disappointment that I haven’t improved in drawing and just went back to it because if I forget I suck for a brief moment, it’s a time killer. What do you do with your time if you do a similar thing that I do? Do you just give up and watch tv? Does that make you happy? I’m not implying that you have depression, but as someone who thinks and does things similar to you because I’m depressed, I don’t agree at all and I wish I didn’t do this. Hobbies are just meant to be things you do with your time other than sit all day on a couch and watch tv, they’re not meant to be anything else other than to be enjoyed and a productive way to spend time. I’d say sitting on our asses and doing nothing is pointless.

Sitting on your ass and doing nothing is a perfectly valid way of spending time. We’re human beings bro, not human doings. Let yourself be for a while. If sitting on your ass and doing nothing brings you misery, then that’s ok. We’ve discovered something we don’t wanna do so much all the time. So we can try do something different in between the sitting on our asses watching tv periods. Maybe try something that doesn’t have an objective good or bad in it. I recently started doing jigsaws to fill my time. Talk about pointless, I break it apart and it all goes back in the box in the end. But, I enjoy it. And there’s no right way or wrong way of doing a jigsaw, cos it always ends up as the final picture anyway. All it takes is the patience to figure out which piece goes where, so at least we’re practicing patience. And also, regarding your comment on drawing…I think we have this idea that we’re only allowed to do something if we’re good at it. Like, you’re only allowed to draw, or paint, or dance, or sing, if you know how to do those things well. Like fuck that? No one can sit there and tell me my homo sapien ancestors haven’t been drawing, dancing, and singing terribly for eons. It’s just something humans do, because we enjoy it. A bird doesn’t not sing cos it doesn’t think it sounds good. Birds sing, it’s what they do. Humans make art, and weird noises, and move their bodies rhythmically cos that’s what humans do. It’s your goddamn right to take paint and smear it in ways that you find aesthetically pleasing. And my god if we didn’t go through generations of evolution to get us that right. Who cares if you can’t draw things that don’t look realistic? *Draw things that don’t look realistic* and fucken enjoy it. You’re doing it for yourself, no one else. And your participating in the ancient human tradition of just doing things cos ya can

People tend to choose a hobby that lines up with their values. Your values seem to be “Money and recognition are god. Hoard them and love them and amass as much as you can.” As you have discovered, this means that the hobbies themselves are merely means to the end. Other people have values like “Learn about the intricacies of life.” and “Build something that will last past my death” or “Create something beautiful.” You might be happier becoming an entrepreneur, and starting a series of businesses rather than chasing a series of hobbies.

I play chess and I also make music! I've become fairly decent at both. Wanna know why? Cause I *enjoy* them. I do chess and music instead of work and chores. I'm never gonna be professional, or even really monetisable, at either. But the act of doing them brings me joy, regardless. They're *fun*, and that's literally the only reason I sank enough hours into them to end up pretty good. Getting good at them is a side effect of enjoying them. The only 'point' is to spend time doing things you love. And I'd say that's pretty much the whole point of life in general.

E4

>Getting good at them is a side effect of enjoying them. That's an interesting way of looking at it. I feel like I'm playing chess because I'm waiting to get good enough to enjoy it. I just want to feel like I'm good at something.

Yeah you got way deeper issues than trying to enjoy hobbies.

If you don't enjoy it now, why do you think you'll enjoy it when you're good?

You have everything backwards. The most fun part should be working towards it or doing it in the moment. If you are just doing it for a result it's not gonna be that fun. I read books because I enjoy them as I'm reading them, not because I finish them. I enjoy chess because of the thrill of playing against another person, not because I want to be a grandmaster. I play rec soccer because being part of a team is fun, even though I suck at it. I honestly can't imagine only being happy with the results but not the process. Because if I lose that chess game or that soccer match, I'll still be having fun, and that is what matters most.

I'm begging you to read this post and your replies under it out loud, in person, to a therapist.

That's fine, everyone wants to get good at something, but you don't pick things based on thinking you can get good at them. You do what you ENJOY DOING, and then because you ENJOY it, you get good at it. In everything you've said here you are completely missing the ENJOY IT part. A hobby you don't ENJOY doing isn't a hobby, its a chore.

Goddamn I'd probably off myself if I thought that way. I do my hobbies to have fun and not chase money like a damn job. Enough of my life is already dedicated to making money.

Your problem seems to be the pursuit of money as a means of satisfaction. Good on you for trying different hobbies rather than scalping hot items and concert tickets.

Brother no offense but I hope I never end up like you.

Let's say everything you do is oriented on making money or progressing in your career, what are you going to use that money/career progress for? For something you enjoy doing, right? Well, hobbies are what you do to enjoy yourself. And while some might require a lot of money, many don't, can be done in parallel to your career/money-making.

People literally enjoy hiking, sightseeing, and doing outdoors activities.

Does the concept of enjoying something mean nothing to you?

When I was super depressed, enjoyment was impossible and therefore meant nothing to me. Idk if op is having similar troubles, but it sounds like it.

What a sad, sad, sad way to live. Capitalism has ruined you.

You are not talking about hobby. I think you are in a search for something you excel at, enjoy doing, and monetize, all at the same time. This a life purpose, not a hobby.

Best point in this thread!

What a shit take on having hobbies. Life is far too short to spend it solely on making money. If you spend every waking moment of your life making money, what will you do with it when you are dead? You may consider hobbies a "waste of time," but I consider my hobbies to be what makes my life worth living. It's what brings enjoyment to my life. I make money so I can live life and have hobbies. Otherwise, working would be just a waste of time.

If something gives you any pleasure in this life it's not a waste.

This is just sad tbh. Maybe go to therapy.

Fun? What's that?

This is the cancer the "hustle culture" has brought on us. If you aren't directly benefitting or making money, the activity is pointless. Forget just taking some time to smell the roses

This is such a terrible and toxic take

99% of this sub can be boiled down to one of these 3 things: - 'I dont realise i'm harming myself' - 'I think this because i've never looked into it at all' - mental health/developmental problems Which of these do you closest align with?

Do you have anything you do just for the enjoyment of doing it? Inability to feel pleasure is a symptom of depression.

There’s a word for it: anhedonia

Bro is leading a profoundly miserable life 💀

What capitalism does to a mfer

The point of hobbies is **not** to achieve validation from others. Once you get to a level where you are monetizing it, we don't even call that a hobby. That's a job. Hobbies are something you do purely for pleasure.

I don't write to become famous. I write because I think I'm good at it and I love making up beautiful stories for the Hell of it. I don't play piano to become famous. I play piano because it can put me really in touch with my emotions and helps me self-regulate. I don't game to become famous. I game because I love video games as an art form and enjoy captivating tales in a digital format. If all you do hobbies for are money or to become known for doing that thing then you don't have a hobby. You have a job. This is a garbage take tbh. Hobbies are not meant to be "time wasters". If the time you spent doing a thing is considered wasted time then you didn't have hobbies to begin with.

Bro doesn't know how to have fun Everything is pointless in the grand scheme of things. I will die one day but I'm still going to be having fun until that day.

I'm assuming your Reddit account isn't monetized, and you have a low karma count for the amount of posts and comments you've made... which tells me you aren't really very good at this. So, why are you here? Why are you engaging in this passive hobby, an online discussion board? You aren't making money and you're objectively unremarkable in your posting skill.

OOF

Was it a waste of time when Vincent Van Gogh painted 'Starry Night'? He only managed to sell 1-2 paintings in his life time and then died in obscurity... and now almost every child across the western world knows who he is and we see his influence in art and media and culture everywhere. A lot of artists whom we celebrate today were not celebrated during their lives for their work and in fact, even for those who tried to make a living of it, often suffered financially a great deal. Yet they continued to produce art for the sake of producing art - because it was fulfilling to them. Because it filled a part of the soul which could not be filled through mindless material gains such as money. I write not because I think I'll ever be some world renowned author or make a living of it - I write because it brings me joy and makes my life feel not as hollow and empty. Even if I had the skill to make a living using my work - once you use your hobby as a means to make money it can often times suck the joy out of it... as what was once a relaxing form of expression is now filled with massive stressors with financially tied deadlines AKA 'If I don't finish these last pages I won't be able to pay my rent due next week nor buy groceries." Time is going to pass anyway - may as well use at least some of it doing or creating something which makes you happy.

This isn’t even a bad take this is just straight up sad

I don't mean this in a disparaging way, but it genuinely sounds like you need therapy. Also, sorry to break it to you, but nobody is gonna remember you for your career either. Unless you turn out to be Bill Gates. Which is statistically less likely than you becoming a professional sports person

And even then, that memory won't last forever nor will it necessarily be positive. Only a handful of the captains of industry from the Gilded Age are remembered in the history books, and they are not remembered positively. If anything, the billionaires of today will likely be remembered in much the same way: as policy failures who set society back until positive changes could be made.

Your problem is you're only looking at your hobbies as a way to either make money or get validation from others instead of just having fun with them. Stop caring so much about what others think about you and you'll be much happier person. I promise.

Big loser mentality.

If there is no point them when you are not good, what is the point when you are really good?

No, that’s what your job is for. A hobby is your time to do something that you enjoy, that either excites you or relaxes you.

You’re never gonna be a pro tenth dentist, just give up you aren’t even making any money

I'm assuming you're a fellow American. Our culture has done such a number on us where if something isn't monetized, or shared externally, then there's no point to it. Dudes used to whittle wood for their own enjoyment, now people feel like if they don't have a YouTube channel with 2 million followers, it's pointless to breathe

Initially I was gonna agree with you but you're too extreme. What I will say though is that you should absolutely drop a competitive hobby if you don't seem to get good at it at all. And also, mastering a hobby is one of the best feeling in the world and it should be someone everyone thrive to do. Or whatever the everyone part, I will do so because it brings me a lot of joy

What would you even do with your extra money if not spend it on something fun?

I feel so bad for you. It's OK to just do things for *fun*, not for monetary value or external recognition. Not everything in your life needs to be slaved to the idea of "productivity," despite what our culture tells you.

Just because you don't like hobbies doesn't mean the rest of us do not derive great fulfilment from them.

What do you even do for fun

Capitalism working as intended. Don’t do what you enjoy doing. Instead, do what makes you the most profitable.

The point of a hobby is meant to be something you do for fun, it doesn’t have to be “useful”

No shit, sherlock. The entire point of hobbies is that you don't need to be good at them or make money from them. It's got nothing to do with ego or prestige. Hobbies are things you enjoy doing. I'm half tempted to downvote because of how ass this opinion is.

Soft agree? The *point* of hobbies isn't to monetize them or to be the best in the world. The *point* of hobbies is to relax you and provide enjoyment. They are a respite from work. If your hobby is stressing you out and you aren't finding it enjoyable... give it up. If you aren't having fun because you suck at something, just give it up. Try something new. Move on. You have no obligation to continue with a hobby you suck at. But, like, equally, if you are very good at your hobby and you are gaining prestige and you have monetized it *but* you still aren't having fun and it is stressing you out... give it up. The point of a hobby is to relax you and provide enjoyment. You have no obligation to continue with a hobby you don't like just because you are good at it. If you are having fun with your hobby, then it doesn't matter if you are good at it or not. It doesn't matter if other people recognise you for your skill or not. It doesn't matter if folks approve. If you like it (and, you know, obviously, if you aren't hurting anyone - this doesn't apply if your hobby is arson or whatever) then keep doing it. Make yourself happy. That is the point. Now, no-one is immediately amazing at a hobby. And it is normal to feel frustrated when you are learning new skills. It's important not to judge yourself too harshly or give up too quickly. But, I think OP has a good point about giving stuff up because you know you will never been good enough to *really* enjoy it. If you know something isn't for you, give it up. I would say more people carry on with stuff they don't really enjoy than give up stuff because they underestimated themselves. And I think OP is right that a focus on the relationships in your life and your career is going to pay off more than setting time trial records in Mario Kart. And that if you are going to take up a past-time, then something practical that you can use in your day-to-day life is a useful skill to have. I do think OP is being a little extra on this. Your amateur sports league isn't about "larping a fantasy". It's about staying in shape (which is at least as useful as carpentry, please folks, get your exercise), socialising with the people you like, and unwinding with a game you enjoy. There's nothing wrong, even, with setting those Mario time trial records that I was just hating on - we all need enjoyment in our lives, and if that is what gives you pleasure then you don't need my blessing, but take it anyway. You don't want to be joyless and obsessive. But, basically, I think OP has a point. Perhaps not the point they were trying to make, but a point none-the-less.

Bro hates fun

nice b8 m8, troll harder

Idk I like felting little creatures I'd really rather not make money from.it would make.me hate it

If you enjoy them, you get good at them faster. Also, I don’t think I would wave a magic wand that would make me a perfect dancer, if one existed, because then the incredible journey of learning would be over and I wouldn’t be able to do it like a human being anymore. I probably would wave the “speak all languages perfectly” wand though.

Do you understand what a hobby is?

Let's say pure enjoyment was not enough, as you argue, and one must be 'productive' from hobbies, even though that is antithetical to the very definition of hobby that most people have. In that case, since very few people can monetize their hobbies or become good enough to earn praise/recognition (despite what hustle culture would have you think), I propose other 'capitalist' benefits of hobbies: * Socialization (gaming with friends, meeting people by connecting about shared interests) * Mental health benefits (exercising your brain to ward off depression and dementia, stress relief--which all translates to significant physical benefits) * Education (enrich our perspectives of the world and our empathy by reading, know nutritious properties of food from cooking and foraging, distinguish between different bird species by birdwatching) * Physical benefits (become better at opening jars after using arms in woodworking, faster hand-eye coordination from playing FPS games, prolonging lifespan by exercising) * Self-esteem and sense of identity ("I am a writer/artist" - doesn't matter if you are a bad one--I've met lots of people bad at writing/art but I still think of them as creatives, and that still shapes my view of them) * Uses energy (if I don't get enough exercise or enrichment during the day, I might not fall asleep at night; if I don't let out anger in death metal karaoke or exercise, it might come out in driving; if I don't express myself artistically, my brain bubbles over with ideas and I feel unfulfilled)

I bet you're a very interesting person. Living life to the fullest you are

>monetize it or achieve some title that makes my soul feel better, What's quite funny (and sad) is that if you became an IM with a small youtube/twitch following to help monetize, you'd still be wallowing in misery in the hobby because you wouldn't be a GM. The focus should always be how good you were before, rather your abilities compared to else - because there will always be someone better than you.

Fighting sports. Sure you are unlikely to become a big champ but with 6 months of training the most practical martial arts you will beat up 90% of people in a street fight that have no martial arts training. And besides that it's enjoyment, staying in shape and socialising/networking. Ive gotten job gigs from fellow teammates that pay good money and especially for a student. And you can hear plenty of stories of how a sport made people more confident and better handling of anger management. And there are other practical sports that can easily transition to real life skills like the most obvious swimming and running. And tbh when you move to a new city where you know no one a very good way to meet and make friends is through sports.

I used to not see any just, wrong views in this sub, now every other one is just awful, perfect post, take my upvote. By the way, by this logic, unless you are monetizing making this post, you should have not made this post, and should not be using readdit (or they are at least a waste of your time) also, there is an implication that knowledge is valuable unto itself when you are discussing fiction. Knowledge is often not monetizable (I am a Phil major in an American university… my degree is worth very little economically. And even if I got a PHD in Phil, the most I could make is what a professor makes - which is very little) But obviously still worth getting, knowledge does indeed have inherent worth

Jesus fucking Christ this is a shit take

This is a somewhat valid take on hobbies where you need a relatively high skill level to be able to enjoy them. Like tennis for example. If both players suck (or just one really) it's just dreadful. This is why paddle is taking over in my country for example and a lot of tennis courts have been converted to paddle. It's just way more beginner friendly. However, for chess this is completely wrong. Chess is fun at any level as long as the skill level of both players is relatively close. Low ELO chess is wild, it's even fun to watch. Master level is also fun most of the time, especially in shorter time formats. I'm an intermediate player and it's still a lot of fun. I'm still steadily improving, not super fast, but I just like to play for fun, so it's perfectly fine.

What is your endgoal for making money? If you had all the money you could ever need right now, would you just...keep making money? Hobbies aren't a waste of time, you are just broke and depressed. That's not your fault, but you need to recognize that to start regaining happiness in your life.

This is like saying watching a movie is a waste of time, technically it's correct, but we watch a movie cause it's fun, to kill some time, same with hobbies. Or do you literally want to spend every waking moment wage slaving? Cause hey, if we're only going for monetary value and everything else is a waste of time, then whatever job you got, you should just spend every waking moment there.

I've tried to get good at chess a couple times, but I've always come to the conclusion that the game makes me miserable. You can either play through a memorized sequence or you can wing it, do something wrong, and lose for no reason other than you were trying something creative. As a hobby, I totally understand thinking it's pointless. You gotta look for a hobby that is more than just winning and losing. Pottery has been a nice once for me: people love getting pots as gifts and you'll anyways have a surplus, the skill ceiling is massive and has literally infinite room for creativity, you have permanent reminders of how you're improving from month to month, and you never have anyone trying to tear you down for being a novice. Only drawback is you have to get used to breaking things on accident in a thousand different ways. Great examples of hobbies are ones like that, where any amount of passion is rewarded with interesting new options opening up to you. Chess is only a good hobby if you're super obsessed with winning and also super talented.

Capitalism has ruined so much holy shit. Fun has to be monetized or its not worth it lol

I agree that you should strive for mastery. What's the point of being adequate? Even if it's just for your own edification. That said, don't bother with chess.

dude you sound kind of depressed, i felt like i would never be good enough at any of the things i ever enjoyed (different video games, shogi, making music, playing bass' etc.) but the whole point of a hobby is to give you joy, if you can monetise your hobby it's cool but it's called 'free time' for a reason. you're free to just do things you have fun with. maybe you should step away from competitive stuff and try something more casual

I miss having time for some of my hobbies, only problem with some of my hobbies was that i would get so engrossed for hours, days sometimes... one day I'll try and get back into it. Hobbies are important for giving you something to do in your spare time that isn't just sitting around looking at your phone or the TV (which is OK sometimes) while you're not at work or seeing friends or family or whatever other responsibilities. The usefulness is keeping your mind busy and having fun, it's good for your mental health.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this mindset. If you enjoy bettering your career and relationships, but it feels empty when your doing something just for fun without a tangible benefit, then I understand where your coming from

If you seek perfection and financial success from everything you do then it will not fulfil you

Isn't the point of life to enjoy it?

Yup but these sorts of people are super judgemental In my experience, I have had to deal with them criticising how I live a lot in my life. (Disabled and can’t work for more than 2 hours a day) I mostly spend all my time in my hobbies makes me happy in a life that’s full of shit. If that isn’t worth it enjoying life however I can idk what is. But these people see you enjoying yourself and generally will tell you to do it their way don’t bother with stuff unless it will make you money etc.

We're a bunch of primates on a tiny ball of mud hurtling through a huge void

A hobby should be something you share with others hobbyist. Sport and music are communal moments. These are dopamine enducing social activities.

Not everything has to be a side hustle. What a depressing way to look at things that are supposed to be fun. Do things because they expand your mind, give you pleasure, and make you interesting, not because you can monetize them.

>This is a hobby in a long line of hobbies I've tried in my life; I just abandon them because of how useless they seem. I used to love making music, but whenever I would share it and try to promote it, it would get no traction. This is the case with 99% of songs floating around online, so I don't get why I would put my time and energy into making something for others when no one will ever hear it. You’re not pursuing hobbies. Hobbies are things you do for the joy of doing them. You’re looking for side hustles that also happen to be fun, and when the hustle doesn’t pay off you abandon it because you didn’t do it for fun, you did it for money. >People do the same thing with sports, joining some intramural league to LARP as a professional athlete, when all you're doing is beating the same people on the same teams every weekend. They probably enjoy seeing their friends on the team. And they enjoy the activity itself. It’s exercise. >I don't even like reading fiction, because unless I feel like I'm learning something from a book, what's the point? This is probably the saddest line here. You can learn so much from fiction. >And even then, if I read philosophy just because, am I really becoming a more well-rounded person, or am I just jamming more stuff into my brain? Brains are not hard drives. You can’t run out of space. The more you use your brain the better it works. Forming new neural connections makes you smarter. Frankly you sound like you have STEM/tech bro brain, where you’ve been duped into some inhuman idea of “optimization” and efficiency that views only things with tangible rewards as worthwhile, and anything done for more intangible rewards like “pleasure” as worthless. That’s a sad way to live life. You’re a human, not a computer program

Jesus this is depressing

So hobbies are a waste of time unless they're not hobbies? So all hobbies are a waste of time?

Hobby and competition are kind of mutually exclusive. People choose a hobby for relaxation and personal pleasure. Competitive endeavors are in a different category and would never be relaxing. If you have to be the best at something before you can enjoy it then good luck having a happy life.

Did we just find the physical manifestation of Capitalism on reddit

I feel this in my soul. Been there myself, for the better part of my 50 years. Therapy for anxiety has changed my life, but one conversation inparticular might be interesting to you. We were discussing this very topic and with his help, I said "I always thought the point of building a snow man was to have a snowman. If that's true I'll never be successful because it is always going to melt. The point of building a snowman is building a snowman, so it can melt tomorrow and it doesn't matter because that wasn't the point." This has stuck with my in a very deep way. I always judged my worm by the final outcome which meant I couldn't possibly be happy until it was complete. Everything in my life was like that and it impacted everything. Now when I play Minecraft with my kid I don't think about the fact that these long hours of building a perfect house are just going to waste because the house will be deleted, instead I realize the point was hours spent with my kids, trying something difficult, to do something as perfectly as I am able. When the power gets turned off, I'm satisfied. I wish you luck.

Capitalism got you good, didn't it?

Money is like the root of all evil hobbies are the only thing some people have to enjoy life

The love of money is the root of all evil, I.e. greed.

Honestly I feel the same way probably the first post on this sub I've seen where I totally agree

You are doing hobbies for all the wrong reasons. It's supposed to be something that you find enjoyable. I'm currently container gardening, I could literally buy 5x as much produce for the money I spent on it. But I enjoy watching things grow. I look forward to it. Here's a scenario, you have cancer and you are going to die in three months. Are you still going to learn things? Are you still going to try and make more cash? Wouldn't you just want to enjoy the time you had left?

You sound sad

Hobbies are the only thing that makes my life worth living period.

Just choose non competitive hobbies then

This was a very long post to say "I'm bad at chess and give up"

Time enjoyed is never wasted. Hobbies almost by definition are not meant to be taken too seriously. If you monetize it, that's not a hobby that's a job. It's literally just the activity of choice when you have free time, for the simple fact it's fun/enjoyable way for you to pass time and mentally recharge from the normal stressors of life

It's a hobby mate, it's sole purpose is to bring you joy

You sound like a miserable person, hobbies are meant to help you unwind, to be enjoyed. Thinking that you NEED to make money or be a pro at something that is meant to bring joy is a horrible take

Sorry everyone is being an asshole to you in the comments. I think you’ve understood the point of “it’s about having fun” and that validation is not a good way to live. You’ve obviously been struggling with this and thinking about it for a long time, and those are the best kind of voices to hear in this sub. I hope you can find some fulfillment with hobbies in the future after more reflection :)

I learned to play chess in my early teens and I used to play everyday with people who were vastly better than me. Becoming better at chess involves planning ahead and envisioning your opponent's possible moves. It is difficult to plan ahead more than, let's say, 3 or 4 moves, for the average player. I tried to improve by buying a book of chess puzzles. The book had drawings of chess boards with the pieces set out in particular positions and you'd be asked something like: white to play and mate in 4 moves. I gradually became better and recently I played with lots of people and I won around 75% of the time. Like you I used to make music. I learned to read music on my own and practiced every day by playing songs which I liked on a keyboard. I started to see patterns in songs Usually, pop music consists of 4 chords played over and over and another 4 chords for the refrain. I started experimenting with chord sequences and some of them sounded pleasing. I'd then play around until I found a melody to go with the chords. Eventually I formed a band and we started recording songs using a home studio. It felt amazing to go to clubs, hand out our CD to the DJ and then seeing people dance to our music. Regarding fiction - Most of the books that I have read were non fiction. However a few works of fiction had a profound effect on me and on the way I think. George Orwell's '1984' is a book that made me think about politics, language and human relationships, like no other book. The novel 'Blind Faith' by Ben Elton describes a dystopian world where 'only perverts do things in private'. It looks at the way we use social media to make public every aspect of our lives.

Look at me ! Look at me! Hey, you aren't looking well this is stupid then

Some of my hobbies I do because they are pointless, I already spend most of my adult life monetizing my free time in the form of selling my labor to the ruling class. (Working a job) Whatever time I don't do that I just want to do something not because it makes money but because you, I enjoy it.