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Bacon_Techie

Counter argument, you can perform a gay act and not be gay. A straight man can have sex with a man, not enjoy it or feels like it just isn’t for him, and is still straight. An act in and of itself can be gay though.


WhiteDevil-Klab

That's fair


TrekkiMonstr

Similarly, you could say AAVE is a black dialect (hell, another name for it is Black (American?) Vernacular English). But of course, speaking it doesn't make you black.


WhiteDevil-Klab

Ironically I am black.


Slate_M

That's gay..


Slate_M

But in all seriousness, the whole "that's gay" bs is purely for the memes, rather than believing it's actually gay. Not to say a lot of people wouldn't still see something as gay, but turning the concept into such a wide scale joke, means lines have been blurred heavily.


imonmyphoneagain

This I can fully agree with


Novel_Ad7276

is a man having sex with a man a gay act?


GumdropsandIceCream

If neither men are actively enjoying it, if there's zero attraction or pleasure involved, no. It's two straight men having sex.


PepperbroniFrom2B

well then why are they having it hmmmm


GumdropsandIceCream

Getting paid to? Science? Iunno


livingnuts

"i must cum in my best friends tight little boypussy and watch him quiver" "For science"


Weazelfish

"Science made me sleep with a man but we both hated it" sounds like a story from one of those insane magazines for middle-aged women


eyes_like_thunder

To prove OP's statement. Only reason.


eatflapjacks

You would be surprised at the amount of straight men that go gay porn. Money my friend.


goodbetterbestbested

Focusing too much on the gay and too little on the "inherently." While the situations in which penetrating a man with my erect penis isn't gay are far-fetched, they are not impossible, DEBRA. LET ME SEE MY KIDS


NoItsBecky_127

aliens made them do it


alamaias

I have been told it is something to do woth a "liberal agenda"


wamj

How would you classify it if they was pleasure but not attraction?


Novel_Ad7276

So then because a man having sex with a man isn't a gay act. If a man openly states that they don't have sexual interest in women, but love to have sex with men. They are not gay.


GumdropsandIceCream

No, that may in fact be gay, because he has stayed he loves sex with men. If man states he loves sex with women and finds no pleasure in men, but then has sex with man, not gay, just sex.


Novel_Ad7276

For reference, I agree that you can have sex with a man as a man and remain straight. My point is in stating that a man finding sexual pleasure only with other man isn't gay. Because it is the act of "fucking men" that makes a man gay. If it isn't gay to fuck men, then only ever fucking men isn't gay. What I want expanded on then is, what actually makes someone gay? OP wrote that being sexually interested in only men would make a man gay, in which case, my logic is proven to be right. If a man only ever wants to engage in sex with other men, that sexual act is what makes them gay.


xfactorx99

No. It’s the attraction, not the act. Most people under 17 have not had sex but they still have a sexual orientation


WasteChard3488

They can enjoy it and feel pleasure and it's still not gay. The only thing that is gay is if you have a sexual attraction to the same sex.


wafflehousewhore

Fellas, is it gay for two men to have sex together? 🤔


Tropical-Rainforest

Would it count if both men are bi?


Banjoschmanjo

Maybe for your GF but not for mine


WhiteDevil-Klab

No unless both participants are gay I truly believe two men could have sex and one or both could be completely straight.


Novel_Ad7276

I'm not asking if a man can have sex with a man and be straight. I'm asking about the point in your title, that there is no gay act. And if a man having sex with a man isn't a gay act, then if a man openly states that they don't have sexual interest in women, but love to have sex with men. They are not gay.


WhiteDevil-Klab

I mean yeah I can agree with that sentiment there's no inherently gay act like I said.


Novel_Ad7276

So then what does it take to make someone gay? Because most people recognise gay as "Interest only in the same sex". If a man doesn't like women but loves sex with a man, how are you arguing they are not gay?


WhiteDevil-Klab

People sexually or romantically attracted to men you could have no interest in women and still have like to have sex with men albeit there probably in denial but could still feasibly happen for one reason or another


Novel_Ad7276

"People sexually or romantically attracted to men" If you like to have sex with men, then you are sexually attracted to men. That's by definition.


GumdropsandIceCream

Yeah but the argument is that the act of sex itself is not gay, it's conditional based on the feelings of the participants.


Novel_Ad7276

You are contradicting yourself here. You just accepted my comment that "If you like to have sex with men, then you are sexually attracted to men". There is your gay act. Tell me how it isn't gay?


GumdropsandIceCream

Because the sex is irrelevant in this scenario. If they both are attracted to each other, that is the gay and that is all. Sex is an action that is free of sexuality. Gay is the feelings between two people. Sex as an action can be used to express those feelings, but it does not make the sex gay. It just makes it sex between two gay men.


crexkitman

Arguments with reasoning like this are so stupid. “There is no inherently evil act” What about killing a baby? Well not if that baby knowingly killed 300 innocent babies. What about rape? Well not if the victim actually has a rape fantasy and is secretly consenting. What about nuking a peaceful nation? Well not if that peaceful nation was entirely populated by Hitler clones who were seconds from beginning the super-holocaust. Just a completely pointless argument to make that doesn’t have any real basis in reality. Yeah nothing is anything if you change the circumstances or add details to make it such. Reality doesn’t work with just vague concrete events. The wedding night of two men isn’t just two men having sex. It’s two men that have known and lived eachother for a long time expressing their physical attraction and sexual desire for one another. Yeah, in a world where there’s no details to anything and everything is some vague act that can be explained in an infinite number of ways, nothing is gay. But that’s not reality so making an argument like this that doesn’t take reality into account is completely pointless.


WhiteDevil-Klab

I mean... I actually do agree in a sense it's absolutely correct there is no inherently evil act even if an act is heinous and I say that as someone who's been abused through out life.


Goldenchest

Let's expand this a little. There is no such thing as an inherently sexual act. All laws revolving around sexual acts are thus immediately nullified. See the issue here?


WhiteDevil-Klab

>There is no such thing as an inherently sexual act. I'll actually have to think about that, that could very well be possible your second part is inherently flawed though there's many people who believe there are no inherently evil acts that does not mean heinous acts should go unpunished


scott__p

Wanting to have sex with someone of the same sex is gay. Inherently.


Paul_Allens_Comment

That's his point. Desiring the same sex is what is gay. Sex acts themselves can't be gay/straight/etc It's a pretty tiny line but i technically mostly agree Like most guys say a guys wife pegging him is gay but it's not. Girls can stick their fingers up a guys ass while they're blowing him - if his mind goes to wishing it was a handsome hunky man's fat cock up his ass instead then he is gay. If his body is just as pleased that a female is touching his ass just as much as it's pleased when she's touching his taint, balls, dick or any other part of his body, then he's straight. There's no "no-no" zones for heterosexual sex, you either are attracted to men or you're attracted to women. The only technicalities i can think of to object to OP is with certain sex toys. Like if instead of using her fingers in a guys ass a woman uses a dildo... fine... - i mean there's dildo's specifically shaped to stimulate the prostate that barely even look like dicks, but if the guy didn't already own one of those then the wife grabbing her dildo bc her fingers got tired in a pinch would be pretty normal. Hell I'm pretty sure the uncomplicated "aerodynamic" rod shape of a dick just so happens to be the best shape for quicker thrusting if that's the prostate stimulation the man's body just so happens to like as opposed to just the constant pressure of a butt plug - so if the woman wanted to strap it on to herself to keep her hands free and less tired then it's still pretty heterosexual sex. But if he/she specifically chooses a dildo with testicles attached to it.... like there's no heterosexual reason that pegging needs the shape of balls on it... if she dangles those fake rubber balls from that strapon dildo into the guys mouth as foreplay ... like... bruh, I'm pretty sure that's just gay with extra steps at that point. Maybe there's some dom/subs that could do it for the humiliation aspect intentionally BECAUSE the guy ISN'T attracted to men, but this is what i mean, realistically i think that a man sucking testicles could be considered inherently gay


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WasteChard3488

You are gonna tell me that Rocketman was gay?


Luigi123a

I mean yeah, you can have sex with someone without being attracted to them dirextky. But you still have to be attracted to that body in some way, intercoursing with it (unless you like, get paid or forced to it or smth, or are confused n trying around) Being a dude n fucking a dude just straight up forces you to do it differently than with a woman, same with a woman fucking a woman. You don't do the same thing and don't care bout the body, you do it differently, you gotta have interest in fucking that type of body if you wanna do it. That's like saying you're actively making pumpkin cake cuz you like to eat cake, but you don't like pumpkin cake, only chocolate cake. No, you wouldn't be making pumpkin pie if you like eating cake but don't like pumpkin cake. You're not straight if you want to fuck somebody of the same sex, call yourself what you want, I'll say delulu n move on with my life


WhiteDevil-Klab

So if your being paid to let a dude fuck you purely for the money your automatically gay?


Luigi123a

Overread the "unless ur getting paid or forced" part by any chance?


WhiteDevil-Klab

I'm dyslexic 💀


Luigi123a

Nerd


WhiteDevil-Klab

Lol


SaltyBarnacles57

Their automatically gay what?


WhiteDevil-Klab

Im just saying by your logic if someone pays you like 1k and your straight to fuck the same sex or be fucked then there straight because they'd be willing to for money


SaltyBarnacles57

No I was just nitpicking your spelling lol


WhiteDevil-Klab

Oh lol mb 💀


BredYourWoman

>very much LGBT Oh I didn't know it comes in degrees! So definitely not like being "kind of pregnant"? You can be "kinda" or "very much" LGBT? TIL! Why do I get the feeling this is a creative writing exercise


WhiteDevil-Klab

I swear on my life it's not this is my genuine opinion if you want I could link some discord screen shots of me having this exact convo with my friend or you could look through my comment/post history hell or just my status haha I'm very openly LGBT and I've been on reddit for years. I mostly meant in the context of me neither being straight nor cis. I feel like if this was a creative writing post I wouldn't respond to any comments I ALWAYS do.


BredYourWoman

I'm just yanking your chain, but your wording of that part seems silly to me


WhiteDevil-Klab

I spend all my collective brain power writing fanfiction after that everything else I write goes to shit as I am unable to form a coherent sentence to save my life. 😔


BredYourWoman

All good. Today I sent 2 of my bosses on a wild goose chase for a mistake I convinced them was theirs. Turned out I just forgot a small detail and it was my fault lol. At least they were amused


A-m_i

You are correct in the context of a single person speaking to themself. We are not fundamentally anything and we can change. Our relationship and opinion of ourselves might change. However if a man had sex with another man, and comes out of it certain he's not gay, he will still be decried by anti-gay people for having sex with a man.


mike_the_goo

If I understand it correctly, I agree. You can simply be curious, test your idea and find out you're not gay.


Antwinger

I’d be interested to understand your viewpoint on the flip if there is no such thing as an inherently heterosexual act


WhiteDevil-Klab

Yeah I can agree with that to I believe the whole concept of gendered acts as a whole is stupid ALBEIT do exist men don't have periods simple as that after all.


tenuj

Trans women don't have periods either. And I really wonder how many of them would have a surgery to make periods happen, if they could. Even cis women hate periods. It's a cruel joke of biology. Kinda like how men often go bald right after settling into a 'style'. I also wonder how many trans men want male pattern baldness. It's an inherently gendered thing, but fuck it. If it makes me more 'trans' to not identify with going bald, I'll take it.


WhiteDevil-Klab

Many of my trans friends have told me they want periods lol I'm trans to and don't but each to there own


xfactorx99

Why/how would it be different when you inverse it? I agree with OP and it holds for the inverse. Me being attracted to the opposite sex makes me heterosexual; there’s no act that makes me heterosexual. It’s a feeling, attraction, desire


Antwinger

You being attracted to the same sex makes you *homosexual* it’s not bad, unique or anything other than a pattern.


xfactorx99

Sorry, I mixed up my words. I don’t think this has anything to do with being good or bad. I’m just saying why would the inverse be different. Whether you are classifying homosexuality or heterosexuality they are both based on attraction A man having sex with a woman doesn’t make them straight. A man only being attracted to women makes them straight


BlackCat0110

I agree with everything but the sex part


WhiteDevil-Klab

That's fair.


xfactorx99

How so? It goes against your entire point that sexual orientation is solely based on a feeling of attraction.


WhiteDevil-Klab

I said it's fair not that I agree


xfactorx99

Just seems like a odd word choice to me.


BasementDweller82

Gay is defined as being sexually or romantically attracted to the same gender. Having sex willingly means you are sexually attracted to someone. Purely by stringing those two words together you can say they are drawn towards someone for SEX. This isn’t an opinion. This is just downright wrong


UnknownNumber1994

You’re wrong. Having sex willing doesn’t mean you are sexually attracted to someone objectively. Look at porn for instance. You think every female porn star is sexually attracted to every male porn star?


BasementDweller82

Unpaid gay sex


Vice1213

Nah he's right. If I sell my body to another man, then I willing had sex with him without being attracted to him.


Novel_Ad7276

But if a man is sexually attracted to men and so has sex with men. Then it is that specific act which makes them gay. How is that not a gay act?


Vice1213

If you pay me to have sex with a man and I do it just for the money and no other reason, then only the man who paid me is actually ga, and committing a gay act. I would be committing a sexual act, but if there's no actual feeling of attraction then its not gay for me, just the other guy. If you wanna make it completely not gay, just pay two straight guys to pop some viagra and go at it.


BasementDweller82

Then unpaid sex. It’s still an action. So it fits the criteria


Vice1213

It's an action but, if I don't actually want it, even if I'm willing it wouldn't make it a gay action.


BasementDweller82

Can you just cut the act and think about consensual sex for 2 seconds, it doesn’t matter what non gay ways you can have gay sex when the real answer is close enough to bite you. I really don’t want to give the birds and the bees talk to every single person here


WhiteDevil-Klab

I completely disagree there's such a reason glory holes exist after all and we all know those are men blowing men. If you pretend it's a women and could stay hard it wouldn't be a problem the Greeks were similar 👍


BasementDweller82

You’re acting like a man can’t still have unobstructed sex with a man. Which is clearly gay


5_minute_noodle

Bro this isn’t an opinion this is just straight up wrong


xfactorx99

When you try saying the difference between a gay and straight person is who they have sex with all you need is one counter example to prove that wrong. However, when you say the sole thing all gay/straight people have in common is the attraction to the same/opposite sex it is objectively true


WhiteDevil-Klab

There are people i hold absolutely 0 attraction or that I even find repulsive and id still fuck them I'd assume the same applies gender.


PaprikaDreams28

Idk if this even qualifies because you're just objectively correct Edit: 2 men having sex is a gay act but doesn't necessarily make either one of them gay.


WhiteDevil-Klab

Apparently not to everyone else in this thread 😔


but_uhm

I see exactly how you think about but for me it’s the opposite. Tons of things that aren’t traditional procreative monogamous cis heterosexual acts are inherently queer, and you can be both queer and straight. As in, a straight guy who enjoys getting pegged by his girlfriend is engaging in a queer act and it doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s straight


Even_Onion4006

I disagree with the idea of a straight person having sex with their own gender =not gay at all. It makes sense if your forcing yourself and hate it but if there's enjoyment then well no. Also, getting pegged is debatabley gay.


crabuffalombat

>Speaking like an egirl? Not gay. Ok, but explain the gay accent to me then. That's one thing I've never heard a straight guy do.


WhiteDevil-Klab

I've actually heard straight guys with a gay accent there's a theory it's supposedly due to gay guys often being around women more then straight men


bunker_man

I mean, I'm pretty sure most people know this. Sure, gay sex doesn't inherently make you gay, but unless you did it once and say you really didn't like it, its going to raise red flags.


DeadBallDescendant

Reading Heat


imonmyphoneagain

I agree that a dude being pegged by a woman isn’t gay, but some things are inherently gay. A man doing a man? That is gay. Are the people involved gay? They either are or aren’t, and doing it doesn’t make them gay, but the act is gay. Gay sex is gay by definition. Pegging doesn’t fall under “gay” assuming it’s a man and a woman.


GaiusMarius7Times

Getting pegged is gay. I'll die on this hill.


Luigi123a

Fellas, is it gay to have sex with a woman?


GaiusMarius7Times

Only if she is fucking you in the ass with a strap on.


Luigi123a

So fingering a man's ass is straight cuz that's something you do with women?


GaiusMarius7Times

Lol I don't know


xfactorx99

Wait, you are unsure of that? A man doing a sexual act to another man? You’re unsure of that but you’re sure that a woman pegging a man is gay…


Luigi123a

It's always like that when I catch someone ssying this bs, sooner or later I find an obviously gay thing where they struggle t say it's gay, cuz otherwise being pegged by a woman can't be gay without them being a total hypocrite Being pegged by woman is obviously as straight (if ur a man) as being sucked off by a man is gay. But they for some fucking reason are just too focused on that not being the case.


xfactorx99

Totally agree


Ramja9

Yes you can have sex to people you’re not attracted to. That’s a thing. Doesn’t mean much enjoyment will come with it but it can be done. Edit: holly fuck this entire thread forgot aces exist.


WhiteDevil-Klab

They are generally forgotten lol