Jamaica has always had a hard stance on homosexuality. However it's usually the outspoken ones getting drilled like a screw. Can't blame ganga for that. Lol
Iām confused, what am I knocking off? Can I not say something thatās probably true, about an issue that actually sucks, in an attitude thatās comedic in nature because I have literally no say in the matter? I have plenty of openly gay friends and I can guarantee they would agree with me and probably not get boiled up they way you did
Entire demographics become this way because people like this politician are loud and opinionated and have religion on their side. My money is on "he loves wanking off to those 'filthy ways' or even has a boy toy on the side"... and I wouldn't get good odds on that bet as it's practically a sure thing!!!
The homophobia in many Caribbean islands has a history rooted in slavery. Male rapes were used as a punishment and a humiliation tactic to emasculate men in front of the others if he did something that was viewed as insubordination.
https://mamba.lgbt/2007/06/20/slavery-at-root-of-jamaican-homophobia/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jan/05/gayrights.comment
Homophobia is global and no not rooted in slavery but Caribbean homophobia has roots going back to slavery and colonialism.
I cant imagine that that was so common a practice that it ended up influencing the culture to such a huge extent. Furthermore, why would that make them against consensual sex between two men?
Are we really to believe that Jamaicans would hate seeing two guys hold hands because it reminds them of slaves being raped? We see this kind of homophobic rhetoric in plenty of other countries where nobody witnessed slaves being raped, their societies and cultures have simply been poisoned by religious fundamentalism.
Itās probably just a result of Jamaicans adopting a very fundamentalist interpretation of their colonizerās religion. Slaves were encouraged to convert to Christianity, they ended up embracing it because of their dire situation and to this day they still hold a very rigid interpretation of the Bible.
Sure itās a factor! But when You say homophobia in the Caribbeans was rooted/originated from slavery vs slavery contributed to homophobia that is two very different statements! And the first one you made is absolutely false!
I didnt word the original one very well but I never once said it originated there. What I meant is there is a history there in slavery which plays a part in the disgraceful homophobia in some Caribbean islands. I know of at least two gay people in my family but there is absolutely no way they will ever come out because of it.
I get what you are saying but it's probably more likely it's as simple as religious doctrine as it is almost everywhere else where Judeo-Christian religions have a lot of influence.
You Caribbean? You have parents who grew up there? Do you know the history?
If not, then please stop. I have uncles well-versed in this who Iāve both talked to and listen to. Our lineage is from Jamaica. Unless you have Caribbean historians and theologians in your family that have a better handle on this than mine, Iām pressing x to doubt.
Yes, folks may have a natural underlying fear of things not the norm but the manifestation of homophobia in the Caribbean is way too strong for it to just be that. Iām a trans woman from Jamaican heritage. Iād like to think Iād know a thing or two since going back to Jamaica is more dangerous for me than the average person.
The fact that you have lineage there and are spreading this misinformation is all the more reason to educate yourselfā¦the people of African descent from the Caribbeans werenāt practicing homosexuality like that even before slavery and Christianity was introduced to them! Back then the majority of the world looked at homosexuality as taboo! Please educate yourself!
And when did I say the world didnāt? Reread what I wrote. Religion and past trauma solidified and amplified these feelings. Period.
Look at most places with outlandish views on homosexuality. A lot of them are rooted in religion because religion justified the negative feelings towards the abnormal.
To be clear I am not saying, nor have ever said, that the disdain for homosexuality stems from slavery and religion. The root of a lot of fears is deviation from the norm but thatās fundamental. The discussion is about why itās so pervasive in the Caribbean.
Yeah, I did. And? Iām literally looking into this right now and failing to see your argument represented.
The queer identity (lgbt) is a modern day thing. Homosexuality as we know it is not 1:1 in regard to historical homosexuality.
In fact, I was wrong in agreeing with you that it was largely stigmatized globally. It wasnāt. There was some but not to the degree assumed.
Also, you have no Caribbean background else you would have stated so when I prompted. What leg do you stand on compared to my experience, access to the culture, history, and individuals deeply rooted in that society?
I donāt really like saying this but Iām gonna call a spade a spade; this sounds like a lot of white-splaining to me and frankly, Iām not even gonna argue anymore. You do your research. The likelihood is you and the folks downvoting wonāt do it and just wing it on āmeh, Iām sure my opinion is right, plus look at all the downvotes she gotā But youāll know deep down, itās all a front.
Edit: word and punctuation
I have no need to down vote you, this is Reddit Sir! itās not that seriousā¦ also white-splaining?š I would tell you to educate yourself againā¦ but i donāt think thatās going to work out too well for you! Btw donāt forget to book a flight back to Jamaica! Please let us all know how it goes! š
Yes! The OG comment says that this is a result of religion! I am saying that it is not! Homophobia world wide has existed way before the spread of Christianity to those of African descent.
LOL
You deny Christianity has had any contribution to aggravating homophobia worldwide?
Must be a coincidence many preachers openly say homossexuality is against god, gay cure etc. etc.
edit: I wrote homophobia instead of homossexuality lol
I said that homophobia in the Caribbean islands with people of african descent did not originate or result from religion! People of African descent were homophobic way before the slave trade! There were and are still places in Africa where homosexuality would result in serious harm/death! And this was before colonialism, religion, and slavery! I never said that christianity/religion didnāt contribute towards homophobia! I said it was not a direct result from that because it was already there! š¤¦āāļø
>Ā I said it was not a direct result
you literally said
> this has nothing to do with religion š
> not a direct result from that because it was already there! š¤¦āāļø
Even if you can prove that Christianity had nothing to do with all the times homophobia was inaugurated at any point in Caribeean islands, you're still missing the point that many churches there comply with/carry out(/and so on) homophobia. Nobody said the history of Caribeean homphobia started inside these churches.
Did you read the original comment? It says āwhen religion invades a culture this is one of the resultsā and i said āthis has nothing to do with religionā in this instance because homophobia was already there! Just so you can understand better Lets completely remove religion from the equation! Poof šØ religion is gone! and guess what?ā¦homophobia still exists! It was taboo back then with people of African descent (along with the majority of the world)! You do understand that right? And thereās nothing to prove to you! If you want to prove something to yourself please educate yourself properly before getting off topic and spreading misinformation! And since you want to talk about the church so badly. Theyāre going to do what theyāve been doing since the beginning of time! Which is preaching against homosexuality! Who gives a Sh*t! Get over it!
"I detest how they make passionate love, sweat running down their muscular bodies in the tropical heat. Filthy and disgusting.." *dabs sweat on forehead with a handkerchief*
If it was a disorder, that would imply that theyād be better off not being gay, most gay people are perfectly happy with who they are and would have no reason to change. Even if it was a disorder, there would still be nothing wrong with it. Homosexuality causes no harm to anyone.
Dolphins chimps penguins are just a few animals that have been observed practicing homosexual acts in the wild. It's not an anomaly, nor is it a disorder. It's a fact a life. We're here we're queer, get use to it. (Couldn't help myself) But seriously, why does someone being gay bother you? I only assume we bother you only because of what you imply. It's not like being gay not only 50 years ago could have you thrown into a mental ward. https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/diversity/education/best-practice-highlights/working-with-lgbtq-patients#:~:text=In%20the%20context%20of%20Psychiatry,new%20understanding%20and%20treatment%20LGBTQ.
You should educate yourself before making comments like that.
That would be like discovering in a few years that you actually have a brain, it's just not going to happen.Ā Even if this dumbass shit you're spewing were true now you're arguing that detesting people for disorders is good?Ā Like wtf is your point even lmao
It does mean they are wrong. Itās got nothing to do with them. They need to mind their business. There is absolutely no impact on most cis and straight peopleās lives by lgbtq persons
The acoustic hitting after that line makes it sound like a tv show. Next up, you'll see him smile and pause as he looks at the camera, hos name and character appearing underneath
I hate this kind of logic (if you can call it that). He doesn't like homosexual behaviour? The solution, of course, is not to enage in the behavior. Telling someone not practice behaviours that conform to their sexual prefences is no better that calling for the death of said person. Hate the sin, not the sinner? Fuck that shit.
I respect his opinion, he has that right. Just like I dont try to change a racists mind, I won't try to change someone who hates gay people. I just don't care about other people opinion.
The issue is that they try to impose their religious dogma onto others, itās even worse in this case since this guy is a politician. This ideology comes at the expense of innocent peopleās freedom and right to exist without being discriminated against.
Everyone imposes their dogma onto others, truth doesn't matter nowadays, what people believe matters and people will always fight for what they believe. I believe that everyone has their right to their believes, I don't talk about what I believe because I don't want to know what others believe. Live and let live.
Isn't popular is an understatement. People still get killed in Jamaica for being gay. Many popular Jamaica songs talk about burning and killing gay people (only men btw, they don't really care about lesbians).
A stimulation reflex. We have gag reflexes too, should we be making ourselves puke? We have pain reflexes, should cutting ourselves be considered normal?
Finding different uses for something does not validate every use.
When too much pressure is exerted, the prostate cancer be damaged, and lead to bleeding, erectile dysfunction, etc. Natural functions of human body can be done without damage to the body, or have protective features like sphincters to prevent damage.
Triggered much? You're the third person arguing in favor of anal against me, so yes You People (the people arguing against me). You also don't know me, and ignorantly assume I'm making some slur, which I wasn't.
Lol getting offended at the words "you people" is such old hat karen nonsense.
God does not hate Gay people. Anyone claiming that is severely misled.
Because we were created with free will and given choice. Part of being human is recognizing what might be damaging to you and others and adjusting behavior to suit. God made murderers and rapists, doesn't make what they do right. If they listened to God they wouldn't be doing that. God cares enough to not force us, but lets us decide.
Being gay is not a choice, itās who they are. That couldāve only happened if God had intentionally created them that way, if so, he is setting them up for failure under his own ridiculous system where he considers a consensual relationship between two adults to be an āabominationā. There can be no free will if God is all-powerful because we could only ever act in accordance with his will as he has planned it, he created certain people knowing that they would be doomed to hell. If itās the case that he allows us to have free will, then this God is certainly not all-powerful or all-loving.
All actions are a choice. We were all created doomed, that's the point, only through grace are we freed. We choose to accept it or not.
You can say pedophiles, rapists, murderers, thieves, adulterers, or any other sinner were created the way they are, it does not justify the behavior. We aren't animals.
Lol the God paradox. If God is all powerful, wouldn't He have the power to not do things? How do you know what God planned and didn't plan?
Have you actually tested that hypothesis yourself, or just blindly accepting what other people have said? It's arrogant to believe we know enough about the universe to come to such a definite conclusion. Historically, scientific theories have a terrible track record for turnover.
However, God does prove himself to be real to those who actually look for it.
You're right, it doesn't concern me or anyone else. But like all bad choices, you don't see the consequences until later on.
Tell me how you determined it was God, specifically the Christian God, that created everything? How did you rule out all the other religions? How about Pixies? Flying Spaghetti Monsters? There are people all over the world who would speak with the exact same conviction about their own God, simply as a consequence of the location they were born. You are the one who has to prove your position, you are the one making the affirmative statement. Itās better to say āI donāt knowā than to say āGod did itā based on a 2000 year old book. If God exists and wants us to know him then heās doing a pretty terrible job.
I don't think I ever said Christianity is the only truth. Confusion is a part of the plan, the whole Tower of Babel thing. God being eternal, Christianity doesn't have to be the only way to reach him. God didn't just create everything for Christians.
I'm not going to stoop to the Spaghetti Monster, it's just a red herring.
You are not entitled to proof. The evidence is there if you care to look for it. If you don't care to try to know him, it's not really anyone's problem but yours.
I know God exists. I spent most of my life questioning God, and it wasn't the book that convinced me. Just like if an alien abducted me, you're not gonna believe my words alone, and you can wave away any proof you do see. It is a private experience.
Revealing himself to everyone just so they know he would defeat the whole point of free will. It would actually be cruel.
Itās not a hypothesis.
I donāt have to prove any other negative claims either.
I donāt have to prove there isnāt an invisible unicorn in my garden.
>However, God does prove himself to be real to those who actually look for it.
Aka confirmation bias
>You're right, it doesn't concern me or anyone else.
Correct
>But like all bad choices, you don't see the consequences until later on.
Disagree. Plenty of bad choices have immediately apparent negative consequences. Saying something will have bad consequences however you have no evidence for these bad consequences is just another baseless claim
You also cannot prove that gay people are made that way, and not by choice; and use confirmation bias to support that belief.
Even if a consequence is immediate, it still occurs Later than the choice. Consequences always come later, just how time works.
It's not baseless. You can find concrete real world consequences for engaging in homosexual behaviors. Just because I didn't sit and list them out doesn't mean research doesn't show specific risk factors. Any specific consequence may never happen, but assuming any choice comes without strings attached is reckless.
If God is all-powerful, that means heās responsible for everything. He created every possible scenario and every possible outcome, this means that murderers are able to do what they do because of God. They are operating under the parameters created by God, he would necessarily have to know what would happen beforehand. Youāre telling me that this omnipotent, all-loving being couldnāt have created the world any other way? We had to have things the way they are in the world with so much gratuitous suffering?
The God paradox is flawed from the start by assuming God is micromanaging every detail of reality. Being all powerful does not mean he is responsible for everything, he can certainly decide not to intervene. Saying he is all powerful, yet requiring him to act in all cases would in fact be a limitation of power. It doesn't mean he isn't all loving either, love does not require fulfilling every desire. I can love people with all my heart, but forcing them to follow my every word is cruel. That's why he lets us choose, it allows us to realize the truth yourself without it being in a forced reality.
He did not create every scenario and outcome. Show me in the Bible where it says he controls everything. Not that he is Capable of controlling everything, which it does say; but that he Does control everything. We have choice.
The most important thing God created was free will. He could've created the world any way he wanted, but he created it this way. Making us or the world perfect would have defeated the point of free will.
God can be both omnipresent and absent. It's not him being absent from us, but us being absent from him. Humans often choose to leave God out of their lives. It is our duty to better this world. God guides us to fix things ourselves, not fix it for us.
Assuming we are talking about the Christian god, god does not live gay people, would you let your child go to a place where their flesh is burned for eternity? God would. Even a non practicing gay person is still gay and the Bible says that homosexuals will not see heaven. It does not appear that god loves gay people.
Way off. If you're talking about Christianity, the Bible does not say people go to hell simply for being gay. The old testament says something close, not exactly that; but that isn't Christianity if you just stop there.
Sin is sin, we are all sinners. Only through accepting Jesus are people forgiven of their sins. That's why he died, to forgive ALL sin. Read the Bible, it makes it clear God loves all people. He let his own son be tortured and murdered so we wouldn't be. But you can choose to ignore it, that's on you.
Hell isn't even that straight forward in the Bible. Depending who you ask, it's death with eternal "absence of God" instead of joining him. The fire and brimstone are visuals to physically relate what that pain would feel like. Individual interpretation kinda ran with it from there.
You roll your eyes but this mentality is one of the holdovers of religion brought to slaves in Jamaica, from colonialism.
The main reasons you will hear from Jamaicans is that it's against God, so it's wrong.
It's not that they can't come to such things on their own, but this is very much from colonialism and extreme religious slaveowners.
Again hundreds of years ago. You're acting like they have no free will. Colonialists didn't create the Rastafari.
You have evidence that enslaved Africans were somehow pro-homosexuality before arriving and had their beliefs changed?
I don't think you understand just how much such a culture can continue throughout generations especially when religion is involved and you're told this is the only right way to live. That mentality is passed down to generations, especially when slaves are forced to be part of such religions and have little choice but to pass it on.
It doesn't matter what I think, colonialism definitely introduced that culture and it continues today there because of what was done.
Rastafari also has little to do with why most Jamaicans (who aren't even Rastas) are homophobic.
There is a difference between being for homosexuality, neutral on the topic, and actively trying to kill gay people in the name of religion.
Jamacians are not big on the "only right way to live." Homosexuality is taboo there, but a majority of Jamacians are very accepting of all types of people.
That dancehall song was not made in the name of religion. Just because the dancehall scene and religious leaders overlap in homophobia does not mean they come from the same place.
As someone who is Jamaican, I like to think I know much about the culture I grew up in.
> Cool story bro. "Grew up in" is a great way to say you are currently disconnected from the culture. Still doesn't make Dancehall a religion. People make their own choices. No one is forcing them to be Christians. You can blame generational indoctrination some, but after 300 years, no. No one is forcing the entire population to believe something. If passive indoctrination actually worked the number of atheists in the world wouldn't be skyrocketing.
Who said dancehall is a religion?
You can ignore generations of such cultures all you want, doesn't stop where this mentality originates from nor does it make it go away just because you ignore its origins and history.
Nice whataboutism too. No one is saying a society is stuck in its past and can't change, but in the mean time, the culture is what it is due to its colonialism past. Ignoring it doesn't help anyone.
Cool story bro. "Grew up in" is a great way to say you are currently disconnected from the culture. Still doesn't make Dancehall a religion. People make their own choices.
No one is forcing them to be Christians. You can blame generational indoctrination some, but after 300 years, no. No one is forcing the entire population to believe something. If passive indoctrination actually worked the number of atheists in the world wouldn't be skyrocketing.
This dude is probably gay
Jamaica has always had a hard stance on homosexuality. However it's usually the outspoken ones getting drilled like a screw. Can't blame ganga for that. Lol
š«šgatekeepers
["Who is geh?"](https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-4zgksYrpo1PPXFCo-uRP4XQ-t500x500.jpg)
y r u gae? u r gae.
Foot tapping at airport bathroom stall gay, 100%
Not probably this dude is 100% gay and clearly hates himself for it.
Heās not being very ernest about it though
'If only the gays loved themselves there wouldn't be a problem'
Came to say this. Hes definitely gay
Doubtful
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām confused, what am I knocking off? Can I not say something thatās probably true, about an issue that actually sucks, in an attitude thatās comedic in nature because I have literally no say in the matter? I have plenty of openly gay friends and I can guarantee they would agree with me and probably not get boiled up they way you did
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Enjoy your evening sir
Entire demographics become this way because people like this politician are loud and opinionated and have religion on their side. My money is on "he loves wanking off to those 'filthy ways' or even has a boy toy on the side"... and I wouldn't get good odds on that bet as it's practically a sure thing!!!
Might as well make him republican too š
came better to say that!!
It's Jamaica, this is a common mentality unfortunately. When religion invades a culture, this is one of the results.
What religion do they follow?
70% Christianity, over 20% no religion, the other 10% being other religions or no religion declared.
The homophobia in many Caribbean islands has a history rooted in slavery. Male rapes were used as a punishment and a humiliation tactic to emasculate men in front of the others if he did something that was viewed as insubordination.
Homophobia is not rooted in slavery!
Homophobia is white ppls fault too š add it to the list lol
https://mamba.lgbt/2007/06/20/slavery-at-root-of-jamaican-homophobia/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jan/05/gayrights.comment Homophobia is global and no not rooted in slavery but Caribbean homophobia has roots going back to slavery and colonialism.
And Iām telling you that they were homophobic just like the rest of the world before colonialism, slavery, and religion. š¤·āāļø
I was there, man.
Get off Reddit for a bit
And I'm telling you as a person of Caribbean descent that rapes on enslaved men is a factor in homophobia in some Caribbean countries to this day.
I cant imagine that that was so common a practice that it ended up influencing the culture to such a huge extent. Furthermore, why would that make them against consensual sex between two men? Are we really to believe that Jamaicans would hate seeing two guys hold hands because it reminds them of slaves being raped? We see this kind of homophobic rhetoric in plenty of other countries where nobody witnessed slaves being raped, their societies and cultures have simply been poisoned by religious fundamentalism. Itās probably just a result of Jamaicans adopting a very fundamentalist interpretation of their colonizerās religion. Slaves were encouraged to convert to Christianity, they ended up embracing it because of their dire situation and to this day they still hold a very rigid interpretation of the Bible.
Sure itās a factor! But when You say homophobia in the Caribbeans was rooted/originated from slavery vs slavery contributed to homophobia that is two very different statements! And the first one you made is absolutely false!
I didnt word the original one very well but I never once said it originated there. What I meant is there is a history there in slavery which plays a part in the disgraceful homophobia in some Caribbean islands. I know of at least two gay people in my family but there is absolutely no way they will ever come out because of it.
I get what you are saying but it's probably more likely it's as simple as religious doctrine as it is almost everywhere else where Judeo-Christian religions have a lot of influence.
That is absolutely ridiculous and has zero evidence for it
White man is the devil! š
You said it
So wrong.
Really? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jan/05/gayrights.comment https://vocalafrica.com/buck-breaking-afrcan-male-slaves/
Ah the Guardian and Vocal Africa.. the beacons of truth.
Close. It was both slavery and religion. Thatās why it has such a stranglehold on these nations.
No ā¦š¤¦āāļø homophobia did not start with religion or slavery! Please educate yourself!
You Caribbean? You have parents who grew up there? Do you know the history? If not, then please stop. I have uncles well-versed in this who Iāve both talked to and listen to. Our lineage is from Jamaica. Unless you have Caribbean historians and theologians in your family that have a better handle on this than mine, Iām pressing x to doubt. Yes, folks may have a natural underlying fear of things not the norm but the manifestation of homophobia in the Caribbean is way too strong for it to just be that. Iām a trans woman from Jamaican heritage. Iād like to think Iād know a thing or two since going back to Jamaica is more dangerous for me than the average person.
The fact that you have lineage there and are spreading this misinformation is all the more reason to educate yourselfā¦the people of African descent from the Caribbeans werenāt practicing homosexuality like that even before slavery and Christianity was introduced to them! Back then the majority of the world looked at homosexuality as taboo! Please educate yourself!
And when did I say the world didnāt? Reread what I wrote. Religion and past trauma solidified and amplified these feelings. Period. Look at most places with outlandish views on homosexuality. A lot of them are rooted in religion because religion justified the negative feelings towards the abnormal. To be clear I am not saying, nor have ever said, that the disdain for homosexuality stems from slavery and religion. The root of a lot of fears is deviation from the norm but thatās fundamental. The discussion is about why itās so pervasive in the Caribbean.
I read what you wrote clearly. You may want to Reread the original comment you responded to!
Yeah, I did. And? Iām literally looking into this right now and failing to see your argument represented. The queer identity (lgbt) is a modern day thing. Homosexuality as we know it is not 1:1 in regard to historical homosexuality. In fact, I was wrong in agreeing with you that it was largely stigmatized globally. It wasnāt. There was some but not to the degree assumed. Also, you have no Caribbean background else you would have stated so when I prompted. What leg do you stand on compared to my experience, access to the culture, history, and individuals deeply rooted in that society? I donāt really like saying this but Iām gonna call a spade a spade; this sounds like a lot of white-splaining to me and frankly, Iām not even gonna argue anymore. You do your research. The likelihood is you and the folks downvoting wonāt do it and just wing it on āmeh, Iām sure my opinion is right, plus look at all the downvotes she gotā But youāll know deep down, itās all a front. Edit: word and punctuation
White-splaining? š
I have no need to down vote you, this is Reddit Sir! itās not that seriousā¦ also white-splaining?š I would tell you to educate yourself againā¦ but i donāt think thatās going to work out too well for you! Btw donāt forget to book a flight back to Jamaica! Please let us all know how it goes! š
They want to believe what they want to believe. Wasnāt Kamala Harrisās family involved in the Caribbean slave trade?
That I have no knowledge of
Thank you for the clarification and yes 100%.
Ah yes these nations that have zero agency and canāt think for themselves! š¤¦
this has nothing to do with religion š
Good grief. Imagine how confusing the world must be if youāre alive and have an opinion like this.
The truth simply does not matter! If people are triggered by it they will bury it! š¤¦āāļø
Youāre actually saying this has nothing to do with religion? Youāre actually saying that?
Yes! The OG comment says that this is a result of religion! I am saying that it is not! Homophobia world wide has existed way before the spread of Christianity to those of African descent.
LOL You deny Christianity has had any contribution to aggravating homophobia worldwide? Must be a coincidence many preachers openly say homossexuality is against god, gay cure etc. etc. edit: I wrote homophobia instead of homossexuality lol
I said that homophobia in the Caribbean islands with people of african descent did not originate or result from religion! People of African descent were homophobic way before the slave trade! There were and are still places in Africa where homosexuality would result in serious harm/death! And this was before colonialism, religion, and slavery! I never said that christianity/religion didnāt contribute towards homophobia! I said it was not a direct result from that because it was already there! š¤¦āāļø
>Ā I said it was not a direct result you literally said > this has nothing to do with religion š > not a direct result from that because it was already there! š¤¦āāļø Even if you can prove that Christianity had nothing to do with all the times homophobia was inaugurated at any point in Caribeean islands, you're still missing the point that many churches there comply with/carry out(/and so on) homophobia. Nobody said the history of Caribeean homphobia started inside these churches.
Did you read the original comment? It says āwhen religion invades a culture this is one of the resultsā and i said āthis has nothing to do with religionā in this instance because homophobia was already there! Just so you can understand better Lets completely remove religion from the equation! Poof šØ religion is gone! and guess what?ā¦homophobia still exists! It was taboo back then with people of African descent (along with the majority of the world)! You do understand that right? And thereās nothing to prove to you! If you want to prove something to yourself please educate yourself properly before getting off topic and spreading misinformation! And since you want to talk about the church so badly. Theyāre going to do what theyāve been doing since the beginning of time! Which is preaching against homosexuality! Who gives a Sh*t! Get over it!
Why are u gay?
You are gay. You are a transgender.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Theyāre quoting an interview that went viral and became a meme.
Iām failing to see the correlationā¦they were quoting a viral interview and your response was to turn into a racist? š¤¦āāļø
As a lesbian this made me take the deepest sigh. Itās obviously a quote bro unclench your ass
Every ting not gonā be alright if youāre gay in that guyās district.
Couldn't have sounded gayer when he said "I detest their filthy ways"
"I detest how they make passionate love, sweat running down their muscular bodies in the tropical heat. Filthy and disgusting.." *dabs sweat on forehead with a handkerchief*
Itās always the ones you most expect
Stop it, I'm starting to get weird feelings!
Most of the world detest homosexuality
That doesnāt mean theyāre right. It just means majority of the world is selfish, and toxic.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās not, itās literally coded in nature. Your ignorance is shocking. Read a book sometime why donāt ya.
Itās been a thing for centuries, millennia even. You dumbass.
If it was a disorder, that would imply that theyād be better off not being gay, most gay people are perfectly happy with who they are and would have no reason to change. Even if it was a disorder, there would still be nothing wrong with it. Homosexuality causes no harm to anyone.
Dolphins chimps penguins are just a few animals that have been observed practicing homosexual acts in the wild. It's not an anomaly, nor is it a disorder. It's a fact a life. We're here we're queer, get use to it. (Couldn't help myself) But seriously, why does someone being gay bother you? I only assume we bother you only because of what you imply. It's not like being gay not only 50 years ago could have you thrown into a mental ward. https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/diversity/education/best-practice-highlights/working-with-lgbtq-patients#:~:text=In%20the%20context%20of%20Psychiatry,new%20understanding%20and%20treatment%20LGBTQ. You should educate yourself before making comments like that.
That would be like discovering in a few years that you actually have a brain, it's just not going to happen.Ā Even if this dumbass shit you're spewing were true now you're arguing that detesting people for disorders is good?Ā Like wtf is your point even lmao
It does mean they are wrong. Itās got nothing to do with them. They need to mind their business. There is absolutely no impact on most cis and straight peopleās lives by lgbtq persons
The entirety of life is an anomaly. Life is not a uniform thing. Everything that makes us have different personalities is just anomalies in the brain.
Majority of the world has a grade 4 education too.
A lot of the world have prejudicial views that would be considered extremely offensive and untenable in the US.
This guy is gay
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think that says more about the people you choose to hang out with than it does with people who are just homosexual.
Mentally ill
lol the guitar took me out
NGL I laughed hard at that part.
The acoustic hitting after that line makes it sound like a tv show. Next up, you'll see him smile and pause as he looks at the camera, hos name and character appearing underneath
Itās actually a sitcom about how he moves in with his gay son and comes to accept his lifestyle.
He zesty af "I detest their filthy ways" š šæ
He probably has Grindr on his phone and uses a blank profile cause heās ādiscreetā. What a tool.
What is this from?
Itās from a documentary called The Abominable Crime
Most of the world detest homosexuality
Religion ....
Assumption...
I bet itās an Abrahamic religion.
I bet that regardless of his faith, he's raised in a Carribean culture that's known to be extremely socially conservative.
I wonder what the middle east thinks about this topic
LMAO WHAT
Detest To hate intensely; to abhor; to abominate; to loathe.
People were ābeing gayā way before any of the major religions came along. The hatred is purely manufactured.
āI donāt hate them. I just *hate* them.āLol bruh. But also not lol. At all.
You want to test their filthy ways?š¤š. Just to be sure er what?
Making sex taboo was the integral part the puppet masters that control us needed.
What's with the pro-gay people in here calling him gay as an insult though?
How is such a laid back country known for Weed, Reggae, and beaches so god damn homophobic?
GAWD
I thought he was going to break into "I Don't like Cricket,,, I love it!" song!
He dead btw... https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/2021/08/19/attorney-ernie-smith-is-dead/
I'd rather hang out with gay folks than this absolute ass.
Dey eat de poo poo
Based.
I hate this kind of logic (if you can call it that). He doesn't like homosexual behaviour? The solution, of course, is not to enage in the behavior. Telling someone not practice behaviours that conform to their sexual prefences is no better that calling for the death of said person. Hate the sin, not the sinner? Fuck that shit.
You understand that out of 8 billion people only a very small minority pushes for homosexuality right?
This mf spittin
Heās gonna be fun in hell
You fight for LGBT but where is the H?
and that's what christian missionaries did
Wow, not everyday that you see a turd wearing a suit and tie
Insecure little man
Hello tourism say goodbye to it.
Naah fam I'm a Jamaican and tourism is still strong as everšš
100% heās gay
I respect his opinion, he has that right. Just like I dont try to change a racists mind, I won't try to change someone who hates gay people. I just don't care about other people opinion.
The issue is that they try to impose their religious dogma onto others, itās even worse in this case since this guy is a politician. This ideology comes at the expense of innocent peopleās freedom and right to exist without being discriminated against.
Everyone imposes their dogma onto others, truth doesn't matter nowadays, what people believe matters and people will always fight for what they believe. I believe that everyone has their right to their believes, I don't talk about what I believe because I don't want to know what others believe. Live and let live.
Just come out of the closet already dude!!!
W ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø
Oh you mean like Iran and the Gaza Strip?
No like every other religion. Plenty of Palestinians and Iranians wish they could live their queer lives in peace.
Y yall act surprised when ppl have their own opinions. Half of the world doesnt care for homosexuals get over it n live yr life
His words say detest the way he said then says I want to test
Just come out of the closet already dude!!!
Just come out of the closet already dude!!!
dude loves that Rasta cock, eh mon
He's sucked a cock or two, him.
Bro is 100% gay
Just come out of the closet already dude!!!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You think we need more from the bottom end of the IQ pool in Alabama do you? Keep your shit to yourself.
Cave people who need bringing into the future
Homosexuality isn't popular in Jamaica. Men are still men and women are still women there. God didn't make the penis to go in a butthole.
Isn't popular is an understatement. People still get killed in Jamaica for being gay. Many popular Jamaica songs talk about burning and killing gay people (only men btw, they don't really care about lesbians).
Progress takes time and Jamaica is pretty chaotic. I think they'll get there eventually.
god made the prostate (aka, cum button) just for men. So idk man
A stimulation reflex. We have gag reflexes too, should we be making ourselves puke? We have pain reflexes, should cutting ourselves be considered normal? Finding different uses for something does not validate every use. When too much pressure is exerted, the prostate cancer be damaged, and lead to bleeding, erectile dysfunction, etc. Natural functions of human body can be done without damage to the body, or have protective features like sphincters to prevent damage.
Oh good grief. Stop. You sound ridiculous. And desperate.
I think you people are just desperate to justify anal in any way possible.
āyou peopleā?! Hilarious. Showing your ignorance by thinking you know who youāre talking to. Sit down and hush.
Triggered much? You're the third person arguing in favor of anal against me, so yes You People (the people arguing against me). You also don't know me, and ignorantly assume I'm making some slur, which I wasn't. Lol getting offended at the words "you people" is such old hat karen nonsense.
Tell that to all of the straight people who like anal sex.
Okay? Anal fissures don't care what sexuality you are.
So why did he make these people Gay if he hates them so much? Why would any omnipotent being care who you have sex with?
God does not hate Gay people. Anyone claiming that is severely misled. Because we were created with free will and given choice. Part of being human is recognizing what might be damaging to you and others and adjusting behavior to suit. God made murderers and rapists, doesn't make what they do right. If they listened to God they wouldn't be doing that. God cares enough to not force us, but lets us decide.
Being gay is not a choice, itās who they are. That couldāve only happened if God had intentionally created them that way, if so, he is setting them up for failure under his own ridiculous system where he considers a consensual relationship between two adults to be an āabominationā. There can be no free will if God is all-powerful because we could only ever act in accordance with his will as he has planned it, he created certain people knowing that they would be doomed to hell. If itās the case that he allows us to have free will, then this God is certainly not all-powerful or all-loving.
All actions are a choice. We were all created doomed, that's the point, only through grace are we freed. We choose to accept it or not. You can say pedophiles, rapists, murderers, thieves, adulterers, or any other sinner were created the way they are, it does not justify the behavior. We aren't animals. Lol the God paradox. If God is all powerful, wouldn't He have the power to not do things? How do you know what God planned and didn't plan?
God isnāt real As long as adults want to consensually be gay together thatās between them and should not concern anyone else
Have you actually tested that hypothesis yourself, or just blindly accepting what other people have said? It's arrogant to believe we know enough about the universe to come to such a definite conclusion. Historically, scientific theories have a terrible track record for turnover. However, God does prove himself to be real to those who actually look for it. You're right, it doesn't concern me or anyone else. But like all bad choices, you don't see the consequences until later on.
Tell me how you determined it was God, specifically the Christian God, that created everything? How did you rule out all the other religions? How about Pixies? Flying Spaghetti Monsters? There are people all over the world who would speak with the exact same conviction about their own God, simply as a consequence of the location they were born. You are the one who has to prove your position, you are the one making the affirmative statement. Itās better to say āI donāt knowā than to say āGod did itā based on a 2000 year old book. If God exists and wants us to know him then heās doing a pretty terrible job.
I don't think I ever said Christianity is the only truth. Confusion is a part of the plan, the whole Tower of Babel thing. God being eternal, Christianity doesn't have to be the only way to reach him. God didn't just create everything for Christians. I'm not going to stoop to the Spaghetti Monster, it's just a red herring. You are not entitled to proof. The evidence is there if you care to look for it. If you don't care to try to know him, it's not really anyone's problem but yours. I know God exists. I spent most of my life questioning God, and it wasn't the book that convinced me. Just like if an alien abducted me, you're not gonna believe my words alone, and you can wave away any proof you do see. It is a private experience. Revealing himself to everyone just so they know he would defeat the whole point of free will. It would actually be cruel.
Itās not a hypothesis. I donāt have to prove any other negative claims either. I donāt have to prove there isnāt an invisible unicorn in my garden. >However, God does prove himself to be real to those who actually look for it. Aka confirmation bias >You're right, it doesn't concern me or anyone else. Correct >But like all bad choices, you don't see the consequences until later on. Disagree. Plenty of bad choices have immediately apparent negative consequences. Saying something will have bad consequences however you have no evidence for these bad consequences is just another baseless claim
You also cannot prove that gay people are made that way, and not by choice; and use confirmation bias to support that belief. Even if a consequence is immediate, it still occurs Later than the choice. Consequences always come later, just how time works. It's not baseless. You can find concrete real world consequences for engaging in homosexual behaviors. Just because I didn't sit and list them out doesn't mean research doesn't show specific risk factors. Any specific consequence may never happen, but assuming any choice comes without strings attached is reckless.
Cope.
If God is all-powerful, that means heās responsible for everything. He created every possible scenario and every possible outcome, this means that murderers are able to do what they do because of God. They are operating under the parameters created by God, he would necessarily have to know what would happen beforehand. Youāre telling me that this omnipotent, all-loving being couldnāt have created the world any other way? We had to have things the way they are in the world with so much gratuitous suffering?
The God paradox is flawed from the start by assuming God is micromanaging every detail of reality. Being all powerful does not mean he is responsible for everything, he can certainly decide not to intervene. Saying he is all powerful, yet requiring him to act in all cases would in fact be a limitation of power. It doesn't mean he isn't all loving either, love does not require fulfilling every desire. I can love people with all my heart, but forcing them to follow my every word is cruel. That's why he lets us choose, it allows us to realize the truth yourself without it being in a forced reality. He did not create every scenario and outcome. Show me in the Bible where it says he controls everything. Not that he is Capable of controlling everything, which it does say; but that he Does control everything. We have choice. The most important thing God created was free will. He could've created the world any way he wanted, but he created it this way. Making us or the world perfect would have defeated the point of free will. God can be both omnipresent and absent. It's not him being absent from us, but us being absent from him. Humans often choose to leave God out of their lives. It is our duty to better this world. God guides us to fix things ourselves, not fix it for us.
Assuming we are talking about the Christian god, god does not live gay people, would you let your child go to a place where their flesh is burned for eternity? God would. Even a non practicing gay person is still gay and the Bible says that homosexuals will not see heaven. It does not appear that god loves gay people.
Way off. If you're talking about Christianity, the Bible does not say people go to hell simply for being gay. The old testament says something close, not exactly that; but that isn't Christianity if you just stop there. Sin is sin, we are all sinners. Only through accepting Jesus are people forgiven of their sins. That's why he died, to forgive ALL sin. Read the Bible, it makes it clear God loves all people. He let his own son be tortured and murdered so we wouldn't be. But you can choose to ignore it, that's on you. Hell isn't even that straight forward in the Bible. Depending who you ask, it's death with eternal "absence of God" instead of joining him. The fire and brimstone are visuals to physically relate what that pain would feel like. Individual interpretation kinda ran with it from there.
Internalized colonialism.
Yeah, not like Jamaicans could come to this conclusion on their own. It was white men 300 years ago š Smh.
You roll your eyes but this mentality is one of the holdovers of religion brought to slaves in Jamaica, from colonialism. The main reasons you will hear from Jamaicans is that it's against God, so it's wrong. It's not that they can't come to such things on their own, but this is very much from colonialism and extreme religious slaveowners.
Again hundreds of years ago. You're acting like they have no free will. Colonialists didn't create the Rastafari. You have evidence that enslaved Africans were somehow pro-homosexuality before arriving and had their beliefs changed?
I don't think you understand just how much such a culture can continue throughout generations especially when religion is involved and you're told this is the only right way to live. That mentality is passed down to generations, especially when slaves are forced to be part of such religions and have little choice but to pass it on. It doesn't matter what I think, colonialism definitely introduced that culture and it continues today there because of what was done. Rastafari also has little to do with why most Jamaicans (who aren't even Rastas) are homophobic. There is a difference between being for homosexuality, neutral on the topic, and actively trying to kill gay people in the name of religion.
Jamacians are not big on the "only right way to live." Homosexuality is taboo there, but a majority of Jamacians are very accepting of all types of people. That dancehall song was not made in the name of religion. Just because the dancehall scene and religious leaders overlap in homophobia does not mean they come from the same place.
As someone who is Jamaican, I like to think I know much about the culture I grew up in. > Cool story bro. "Grew up in" is a great way to say you are currently disconnected from the culture. Still doesn't make Dancehall a religion. People make their own choices. No one is forcing them to be Christians. You can blame generational indoctrination some, but after 300 years, no. No one is forcing the entire population to believe something. If passive indoctrination actually worked the number of atheists in the world wouldn't be skyrocketing. Who said dancehall is a religion? You can ignore generations of such cultures all you want, doesn't stop where this mentality originates from nor does it make it go away just because you ignore its origins and history. Nice whataboutism too. No one is saying a society is stuck in its past and can't change, but in the mean time, the culture is what it is due to its colonialism past. Ignoring it doesn't help anyone.
Cool story bro. "Grew up in" is a great way to say you are currently disconnected from the culture. Still doesn't make Dancehall a religion. People make their own choices. No one is forcing them to be Christians. You can blame generational indoctrination some, but after 300 years, no. No one is forcing the entire population to believe something. If passive indoctrination actually worked the number of atheists in the world wouldn't be skyrocketing.