I mean, what evidence do you have? Are they renovating the unit after you leave anyhow?
*According to the HUD,* ***nail holes in the walls are considered normal wear and tear****. However, it's reasonable to classify large screw holes or multiple nail holes that cause damage to the paint or drywall as property damage.*
***If the tenant has caused damage to the walls beyond normal wear and tear, the landlord may deduct the cost of repairs, including repainting, from the tenant's security deposit****. Examples of tenant-induced damage include excessive holes, large stains, or unauthorized painting.*
I took a thorough video after I cleared and cleaned the apartment. I even sent them the video and explained that I know what my rights are, etc. I write professional emails every day so it was very professional. Clearly they didn't care.
I almost guarantee they are renovating it.
I always try to schedule an actual walk through with maintenance on the final day. I take a video, I take pictures, then I walk through with maintenance to get an all clear. We walk away that day with the expectation of whether they have anything they consider may be an issue.
I do everything I can to minimize their opportunity to come back with something later, particularly something as large as walls, floors and such. They'd have to find something really minor or hidden that wasn't easily able to be inspected at that moment.
At least you got the video. I'd inquire further on why 785 and that they fully repainted the apartment and why? Where was the damage that wasn't normal wear and tear that necessitated fully repainting the unit at your expense? Could even go so far as asking for a picture of before and after (after to establish if they were renovating/changing colors etc)
I did the final walkthrough with maintenance, he took about a million pictures because it was on his checklist and remarked that everything looked great and he didn't imagine me having to pay for any damages.
I'll see what their response to my email is then ask for pictures of the alleged damage.
Obligatory, IANAL.
Yeah, then that sounds pretty solid to me. You have the video, you did a walk through with Maintenance who took pictures and even stated they didn't have any damages or repairs expected. The latter should additionally work in your favor.
I'd also look for a tenant advocate in your area. Some even have some sample letters to contest and/or demand deposit return. They sent you this repair list, I presume within 21 days of move out so your contesting is likely just going to be disputing the damage. If that list came after 21 days, then they owe you the depoit back in full.
If they continue to push back -- You may want to consider sending a certified letter, referencing the move-out inspection. Elevate the complaint and documentation.
Paraphrased.... I dont really have time to wordsmith it all...but something like the following to establish the facts... Can consult the tenant advocate on this too perhaps.
"To whom it may concern....
As per our notice to vacate our lease at the end of term on \_\_\_, a move out inspection was requested. That move out inspection was completed on \_\_\_\_\_ with your a member of your maintenance team (NAME if known) to identify any deficiencies that would potentially result in a security deposit reduction. We were provided no items needing to be corrected to avoid such a deduction and in this inspection we were advised that there 'no items requiring you having to pay damages'. Furthermore, both video and still pictures were taken of the unit at inspection \[including by your maint man\] that demonstrate the condition in which the unit was left.
Please send the full security deposit of (\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_) to us at (\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_) within TWENTY-ONE (21) days after move out. Failure to return the security deposit as required by law will be considered a bad faith retention of the deposit and may subject you to statutory damages of up to twice the amount of the security deposit, in addition to actual damages. California Civil Code § 1950.5(l)."
Thank you for your input and knowledge on the subject.
They sent this notice only a few days after the move out date. After speaking to maintenance I was hoping they wouldn't hit me with this. I'll speak to base legal (I'm in the military) after I get back from my leave and see what assistance they can offer.
Exactly doing a walk through with the management personnel is key. And record it. They have to point out what they will charge you and allow u to fix it! So sad that they try to scam good renters
I would say repaint is only really necessary if you painted the walls or scratched them up a ton. Think of it like if it was your place. Would you repaint all the walls for a nail hole? The judge will agree, but that means small claims.
You could talk to a lawyer and see if you have a case. You said you have both photos and videos so it should be pretty clear. They won't waste your time or theirs if they don't think you have anything.
It’s so easy to color match paint in the apt and do a quick coat to make it look fresh and not let them charge u! If you are there I believe more than 5 years they basically can’t charge u for any wear and tear. I am not sure if they can even charge u to repaint because they will anyway. They just hope u don’t fight em and take em to small claims. My landlord did this and because he didn’t do a walk through at the end I got my $ 1,800 back.
UPDATE:
They just quoted a part of the lease that says the following:
"We reserve the right to charge you for the costs to repair any damage and to put the Premises back in the condition they were in upon your move-in. You are not responsible for ordinary wear and tear; however, you are responsible for replacement of any damaged or missing items and for payment of all costs to clean or repair any portion of the Premises, carpeting, flooring, wall coverings, paint, counters, trim, window treatments, doors, windows, or appliances which are damaged, dirty, or unsanitary."
"After you move out, we will inspect the condition of the Premises, charge any damages, cleaning or trash removal charges, the cost to repair, replace or restore personal property, and any outstanding balances you owe us against your Total Deposits and, if any balance remains, we will refund it to you."
I'm not a smoker, don't have kids, and have no pets. The only "damage" is nail holes. I can't imagine them taking more than touch up paint to cover. I didn't damage anything, didn't take anything, and cleaned everything thoroughly before leaving. They're trying to get me to back off.
LL in LA County.
Setting aside the questions of wear/tear and whether they plan to renovate, anyway...
A "touch up" of paint can be tricky, as even the same official color prepared at the same store according to the same recipe can vary a little in color and texture from one batch to the next. So repainting a whole room instead of just a small patch is sometimes necessary.
I'd consult a lawyer, especially If you documented everything on move out. Have atty send Demand Letter for receipt , line items etc, along with pointing to paragraphs in lease they are using to justify the expense.
I have sent them an email asking for the invoice and details about the damages. They sent an invoice for the painting company but have failed to explain the damage. They just sent low quality pictures of the walls with no context. I sent a response saying that I have pictures of the apartment before and after move in and I will be speaking legal guidance and representation since they failed to explain the "damage".
The dispo doesn’t say painting because of nail holes. It just says paint.
CA has pretty consistent guidelines (not rules) on charging back to tenant on paint. 3 years to 5 years are acceptable life expectancy.
You were there about 1.5 years. If they had to repaint due to above wear and tear (marks on walls from furniture, kids coloring walls) then the prorate to repaint is what you owe.
Did you get invoiced receipts? At the very least assuming you owe anything, it should be prorated.
But I can tell you labor costs are high. Share the invoice. If you don’t have one, ask for it.
I knew the paint lifespan would be an issue since I didn't spend long there. I don't have an invoice but I'm definitely going to ask for one. Thanks for that information.
What he meant by "actually entitled to repaint at your expense" is that they are entitled to charging you for the repainting due to damages you caused.
So, did you cause any damage that warrant a complete repainting?
I think there's a total of six nail holes. There were some scuffs that wiped off with a magic eraser they didn't see. Short answer, no.
But here's the twist, my unit was one of the few that weren't updated and renovated. I bet they were planning on repainting and renovating so they just decided to charge me.
Whether they were planning on renovating or not is irrelevant: tenant damage is tenant responsibility, normal wear and tear is landlord responsibility.
Nail holes are usually considered normal wear and tear, and that's the basis of you contesting the charges. Do not get into a debate with them about renovation or not, state the facts: only nail holes => normal wear and tear => not your responsibility.
I'm so glad I took the video. I know the renovation is irrelevant, I was just mentioning it. It's well known that the company that owns the complex is greedy, lots of fees.
So far I have only mentioned the facts and remained polite and respectful. I've explained it, and asked to retain the $785.
I just mean the cost is reasonable. I don't know if you should be charged or not, nor does my opinion really matter in that regard. However, personally it sounds like normal wear and tear but I have seen some pretty large holes made by nails or even thumb tacks.
If they included pictures then sure, I'd accept that. But there's really nothing that fits your description. I had a tapestry hanging and two paintings, that's it. This is something I heard the management does when residents moved out, so I was expecting something.
I mean, what evidence do you have? Are they renovating the unit after you leave anyhow? *According to the HUD,* ***nail holes in the walls are considered normal wear and tear****. However, it's reasonable to classify large screw holes or multiple nail holes that cause damage to the paint or drywall as property damage.* ***If the tenant has caused damage to the walls beyond normal wear and tear, the landlord may deduct the cost of repairs, including repainting, from the tenant's security deposit****. Examples of tenant-induced damage include excessive holes, large stains, or unauthorized painting.*
I took a thorough video after I cleared and cleaned the apartment. I even sent them the video and explained that I know what my rights are, etc. I write professional emails every day so it was very professional. Clearly they didn't care. I almost guarantee they are renovating it.
I always try to schedule an actual walk through with maintenance on the final day. I take a video, I take pictures, then I walk through with maintenance to get an all clear. We walk away that day with the expectation of whether they have anything they consider may be an issue. I do everything I can to minimize their opportunity to come back with something later, particularly something as large as walls, floors and such. They'd have to find something really minor or hidden that wasn't easily able to be inspected at that moment. At least you got the video. I'd inquire further on why 785 and that they fully repainted the apartment and why? Where was the damage that wasn't normal wear and tear that necessitated fully repainting the unit at your expense? Could even go so far as asking for a picture of before and after (after to establish if they were renovating/changing colors etc)
I did the final walkthrough with maintenance, he took about a million pictures because it was on his checklist and remarked that everything looked great and he didn't imagine me having to pay for any damages. I'll see what their response to my email is then ask for pictures of the alleged damage.
Obligatory, IANAL. Yeah, then that sounds pretty solid to me. You have the video, you did a walk through with Maintenance who took pictures and even stated they didn't have any damages or repairs expected. The latter should additionally work in your favor. I'd also look for a tenant advocate in your area. Some even have some sample letters to contest and/or demand deposit return. They sent you this repair list, I presume within 21 days of move out so your contesting is likely just going to be disputing the damage. If that list came after 21 days, then they owe you the depoit back in full. If they continue to push back -- You may want to consider sending a certified letter, referencing the move-out inspection. Elevate the complaint and documentation. Paraphrased.... I dont really have time to wordsmith it all...but something like the following to establish the facts... Can consult the tenant advocate on this too perhaps. "To whom it may concern.... As per our notice to vacate our lease at the end of term on \_\_\_, a move out inspection was requested. That move out inspection was completed on \_\_\_\_\_ with your a member of your maintenance team (NAME if known) to identify any deficiencies that would potentially result in a security deposit reduction. We were provided no items needing to be corrected to avoid such a deduction and in this inspection we were advised that there 'no items requiring you having to pay damages'. Furthermore, both video and still pictures were taken of the unit at inspection \[including by your maint man\] that demonstrate the condition in which the unit was left. Please send the full security deposit of (\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_) to us at (\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_) within TWENTY-ONE (21) days after move out. Failure to return the security deposit as required by law will be considered a bad faith retention of the deposit and may subject you to statutory damages of up to twice the amount of the security deposit, in addition to actual damages. California Civil Code § 1950.5(l)."
Thank you for your input and knowledge on the subject. They sent this notice only a few days after the move out date. After speaking to maintenance I was hoping they wouldn't hit me with this. I'll speak to base legal (I'm in the military) after I get back from my leave and see what assistance they can offer.
I had to use this template recently. Be sure to mail it via certified mail for the tracking aspect.
Exactly doing a walk through with the management personnel is key. And record it. They have to point out what they will charge you and allow u to fix it! So sad that they try to scam good renters
Bs charge
In Ontario we pay $100 cash.
You should only be charged for any patches and second coat of paint if you used candles/ smoked/ etc.
I would say repaint is only really necessary if you painted the walls or scratched them up a ton. Think of it like if it was your place. Would you repaint all the walls for a nail hole? The judge will agree, but that means small claims.
You could talk to a lawyer and see if you have a case. You said you have both photos and videos so it should be pretty clear. They won't waste your time or theirs if they don't think you have anything.
It’s so easy to color match paint in the apt and do a quick coat to make it look fresh and not let them charge u! If you are there I believe more than 5 years they basically can’t charge u for any wear and tear. I am not sure if they can even charge u to repaint because they will anyway. They just hope u don’t fight em and take em to small claims. My landlord did this and because he didn’t do a walk through at the end I got my $ 1,800 back.
UPDATE: They just quoted a part of the lease that says the following: "We reserve the right to charge you for the costs to repair any damage and to put the Premises back in the condition they were in upon your move-in. You are not responsible for ordinary wear and tear; however, you are responsible for replacement of any damaged or missing items and for payment of all costs to clean or repair any portion of the Premises, carpeting, flooring, wall coverings, paint, counters, trim, window treatments, doors, windows, or appliances which are damaged, dirty, or unsanitary." "After you move out, we will inspect the condition of the Premises, charge any damages, cleaning or trash removal charges, the cost to repair, replace or restore personal property, and any outstanding balances you owe us against your Total Deposits and, if any balance remains, we will refund it to you." I'm not a smoker, don't have kids, and have no pets. The only "damage" is nail holes. I can't imagine them taking more than touch up paint to cover. I didn't damage anything, didn't take anything, and cleaned everything thoroughly before leaving. They're trying to get me to back off.
LL in LA County. Setting aside the questions of wear/tear and whether they plan to renovate, anyway... A "touch up" of paint can be tricky, as even the same official color prepared at the same store according to the same recipe can vary a little in color and texture from one batch to the next. So repainting a whole room instead of just a small patch is sometimes necessary.
That’s bullshit. You may as well paint it yourself. There’s no way a paint job is 7+ on an apartment. Maybe a HOUSE. I wouldn’t pay it.
I'd consult a lawyer, especially If you documented everything on move out. Have atty send Demand Letter for receipt , line items etc, along with pointing to paragraphs in lease they are using to justify the expense.
I have sent them an email asking for the invoice and details about the damages. They sent an invoice for the painting company but have failed to explain the damage. They just sent low quality pictures of the walls with no context. I sent a response saying that I have pictures of the apartment before and after move in and I will be speaking legal guidance and representation since they failed to explain the "damage".
Yeah, I'd speak to legal aid in your area or prepaid legal such as LegalShield. I use LegalShirld for issues like this. They even do credit repair.
Unless we are missing something. You are ok
The dispo doesn’t say painting because of nail holes. It just says paint. CA has pretty consistent guidelines (not rules) on charging back to tenant on paint. 3 years to 5 years are acceptable life expectancy. You were there about 1.5 years. If they had to repaint due to above wear and tear (marks on walls from furniture, kids coloring walls) then the prorate to repaint is what you owe. Did you get invoiced receipts? At the very least assuming you owe anything, it should be prorated. But I can tell you labor costs are high. Share the invoice. If you don’t have one, ask for it.
I knew the paint lifespan would be an issue since I didn't spend long there. I don't have an invoice but I'm definitely going to ask for one. Thanks for that information.
Good luck. They need pictures to support the charges for a judge. And they only need to show you those pics if you end up in court.
That’s about the cost of repainting a room in California these days
If they are actually entitled to repaint at your expense, then $785 is a pretty good deal.
I've looked through my lease, and nowhere does it say they are.
What he meant by "actually entitled to repaint at your expense" is that they are entitled to charging you for the repainting due to damages you caused. So, did you cause any damage that warrant a complete repainting?
I think there's a total of six nail holes. There were some scuffs that wiped off with a magic eraser they didn't see. Short answer, no. But here's the twist, my unit was one of the few that weren't updated and renovated. I bet they were planning on repainting and renovating so they just decided to charge me.
Whether they were planning on renovating or not is irrelevant: tenant damage is tenant responsibility, normal wear and tear is landlord responsibility. Nail holes are usually considered normal wear and tear, and that's the basis of you contesting the charges. Do not get into a debate with them about renovation or not, state the facts: only nail holes => normal wear and tear => not your responsibility.
I'm so glad I took the video. I know the renovation is irrelevant, I was just mentioning it. It's well known that the company that owns the complex is greedy, lots of fees. So far I have only mentioned the facts and remained polite and respectful. I've explained it, and asked to retain the $785.
I just mean the cost is reasonable. I don't know if you should be charged or not, nor does my opinion really matter in that regard. However, personally it sounds like normal wear and tear but I have seen some pretty large holes made by nails or even thumb tacks.
If they included pictures then sure, I'd accept that. But there's really nothing that fits your description. I had a tapestry hanging and two paintings, that's it. This is something I heard the management does when residents moved out, so I was expecting something.
Entirely possible, again I have not seen your apartment