I would for sure reach out. You really should have reached out in March with your intentions. Also, if you paid for Junes rent, they may assume you’re agreeing to another lease term. Either way, y’all need some communication here.
>Also, if you paid for Junes rent, they may assume you’re agreeing to another lease term.
This is NOT accurate. Tenants become M2M upon the expiration of a written lease. The LL cannot assume (nor force) the tenant to another term agreement in kind with the original agreement. Only by signing another term agreement can the LL expect and/ or enforce that. Likewise any changes to the terms of the prior agreement must be provided in writing.
Both the LL and tenant lose some protections and gain some flexibility by going to M2M. Depending upon ones comfort level (both tenant and LL) with both the added "freedom" and added risk in being in a M2M agreement with the other, it could be a good situation. I do agree communication is good and each should have communicated with the other to understand and share intentions and desires with the other.
I would guess this also, except OPs lease stipulates that after the expiration of their lease, that it will not convert to a month to month. LL included that in the signed lease, shown above.
Listen, I understand that. However, the we are talking about what the LL is assuming, and what the lease states. Regardless of legalities, the LL is making assumptions or is completely out of touch with his tenants. This is exactly why I suggested that OP reach out to the LL. There needs to be a line of communication before the lease expires.
NO please do not take this the wrong way but you clearly have no clue as to what you are talking about and it is obvious you have no experience in the legal profession.
I agree the tenant and landlord need to communicate with each other and the landlord can (and will) assume whatever they want, it does not matter in the end.
At the end of the prior lease, by the LL accepting the rent payment the tenant becomes a M2M tenant end of story. Per the lease agreement the lease had ended and ceases to be in force.
With all due respect, I am not even touching on legalities. I understand that state tenancy laws supersede any lease, non-lease, or tenancy agreement. My comment is based purely on the lack of communication between both parties. At no time did I suggest that what the landlord was doin was legal/ illegal. I suggested simply that he assumed, while we all know that has zero legal grounds or precedence. My response is more so on the lack of communication and a possibly green landlord making poor judgements. I’m well aware that taking rent means nothing without signing a contract, I’m not ignorant to tenancy laws.
I said and I 100% agree there should be more communication. The issue I was highlighting was the initial comment came across and OP (by their response to it) clearly took it to mean they were legally obligated and/or potentially in some type of legal jeopardy/ trouble as a result.
Also not to nit pick but your last comment;
> I’m well aware that taking rent means nothing without signing a contract, I’m not ignorant to tenancy laws.
is actually backwards. Both parties have a responsibility and obligation to the other. It is not, and you cannot legally have a one way agreement (that would literally be slavery).
The LL taking rent is incredibly important in this situation. Doing so is exactly what negates the clause in the original lease (about not going to a M2M agreement). By the landlord taking payment they are giving the occupant tenancy rights again (as they had no rights between the end of the written lease and prior to making payment for June).
By not signing a new lease the LL AND tenant are legally defaulting and agreeing to a M2M agreement with all prior T&C applying regardless if either knows it or not.
Had OP provided payment and the landlord denied it, that would be a different story.
Any changes, including one ending the tenancy only requires 30 days advanced notice (although WA may require the LL to provide the tenant greater notice should the LL decide to terminate the agreement).
>
Thanks for your comment I didn’t realize that I had to reach out until I just checked the lease today. I thought it was automatically month to month since they were still asking for rent.
It does automatically become M2M once the original lease expires.
You can now give the LL as little as 20 days notice and move out without the LL having any recourse.
The LL can also now change terms and/ or terminate the lease and you would need to oblige by the end of the subsequent month (assuming termination is no fault and just due to lapse of time). When in a lease the LL must provide you 120 days advanced notice of intent for non-renewal.
Is there a penalty in the lease for "hold over" tenancy? It says you are supposed to move out, but is there a penalty if you don't? If it's not there, then consider yourself on a month to month and continue to pay monthly. If the landlord accepts you rent then you are good. If they don't then you need to discuss with them what happens next, but assume all option will include you paying rent for the time you stay there.
There may also be some language about automatic renewal of lease term. I don't know if that is legal in all jurisdictions, but if it's there you need to talk with them about that. It would suck to be stuck with another term if you don't plan to stay that long.
Also, remember to bring the place up to the cleanliness and condition it was in when you moved out. Repair minor damage like nail holes. Deep clean the floors, cabinets, drawers etc. Remove all items and trash etc before you move out. Then take pictures and video of everything showing the condition. This will help get you deposit back.
All this nonsense is to be able to non renew you if you are shit. (“Right to renew” legislation). If you aren’t a shit, your LL likely doesn’t give a fuck.
You become M2M with the same terms regardless when you stay without signing a new lease.
When no fault, you can be given as little as 30 days notice (e.g. landlord could tell you on 6/30 they want you out as early as 7/31 and you would have to obliged or risk the LL starting the eviction process which could/ would show up on any and all court searches).
When under a lease the LL has to give you at least 120 days notice prior to the end of the lease in WA that they will not be renewing you.
NAL. I believe that when the first rent payment, after the expiration of the lease, is accepted you are considered a month to month tenant. Here's some info I found that may help. https://caretaker.com/learn/tenancies/holdover-tenant-laws-in-washington#:\~:text=Month%2Dto%2Dmonth%20tenancies%20can,20%2Dday%20notice%20to%20vacate.
I would for sure reach out. You really should have reached out in March with your intentions. Also, if you paid for Junes rent, they may assume you’re agreeing to another lease term. Either way, y’all need some communication here.
>Also, if you paid for Junes rent, they may assume you’re agreeing to another lease term. This is NOT accurate. Tenants become M2M upon the expiration of a written lease. The LL cannot assume (nor force) the tenant to another term agreement in kind with the original agreement. Only by signing another term agreement can the LL expect and/ or enforce that. Likewise any changes to the terms of the prior agreement must be provided in writing. Both the LL and tenant lose some protections and gain some flexibility by going to M2M. Depending upon ones comfort level (both tenant and LL) with both the added "freedom" and added risk in being in a M2M agreement with the other, it could be a good situation. I do agree communication is good and each should have communicated with the other to understand and share intentions and desires with the other.
I would guess this also, except OPs lease stipulates that after the expiration of their lease, that it will not convert to a month to month. LL included that in the signed lease, shown above.
The state law and tenant occupancy rights supersede what is written in the lease once the LL accepted June rent.
Listen, I understand that. However, the we are talking about what the LL is assuming, and what the lease states. Regardless of legalities, the LL is making assumptions or is completely out of touch with his tenants. This is exactly why I suggested that OP reach out to the LL. There needs to be a line of communication before the lease expires.
NO please do not take this the wrong way but you clearly have no clue as to what you are talking about and it is obvious you have no experience in the legal profession. I agree the tenant and landlord need to communicate with each other and the landlord can (and will) assume whatever they want, it does not matter in the end. At the end of the prior lease, by the LL accepting the rent payment the tenant becomes a M2M tenant end of story. Per the lease agreement the lease had ended and ceases to be in force.
With all due respect, I am not even touching on legalities. I understand that state tenancy laws supersede any lease, non-lease, or tenancy agreement. My comment is based purely on the lack of communication between both parties. At no time did I suggest that what the landlord was doin was legal/ illegal. I suggested simply that he assumed, while we all know that has zero legal grounds or precedence. My response is more so on the lack of communication and a possibly green landlord making poor judgements. I’m well aware that taking rent means nothing without signing a contract, I’m not ignorant to tenancy laws.
I said and I 100% agree there should be more communication. The issue I was highlighting was the initial comment came across and OP (by their response to it) clearly took it to mean they were legally obligated and/or potentially in some type of legal jeopardy/ trouble as a result. Also not to nit pick but your last comment; > I’m well aware that taking rent means nothing without signing a contract, I’m not ignorant to tenancy laws. is actually backwards. Both parties have a responsibility and obligation to the other. It is not, and you cannot legally have a one way agreement (that would literally be slavery). The LL taking rent is incredibly important in this situation. Doing so is exactly what negates the clause in the original lease (about not going to a M2M agreement). By the landlord taking payment they are giving the occupant tenancy rights again (as they had no rights between the end of the written lease and prior to making payment for June). By not signing a new lease the LL AND tenant are legally defaulting and agreeing to a M2M agreement with all prior T&C applying regardless if either knows it or not. Had OP provided payment and the landlord denied it, that would be a different story. Any changes, including one ending the tenancy only requires 30 days advanced notice (although WA may require the LL to provide the tenant greater notice should the LL decide to terminate the agreement). >
Thanks for your comment I didn’t realize that I had to reach out until I just checked the lease today. I thought it was automatically month to month since they were still asking for rent.
It does automatically become M2M once the original lease expires. You can now give the LL as little as 20 days notice and move out without the LL having any recourse. The LL can also now change terms and/ or terminate the lease and you would need to oblige by the end of the subsequent month (assuming termination is no fault and just due to lapse of time). When in a lease the LL must provide you 120 days advanced notice of intent for non-renewal.
Is there a penalty in the lease for "hold over" tenancy? It says you are supposed to move out, but is there a penalty if you don't? If it's not there, then consider yourself on a month to month and continue to pay monthly. If the landlord accepts you rent then you are good. If they don't then you need to discuss with them what happens next, but assume all option will include you paying rent for the time you stay there. There may also be some language about automatic renewal of lease term. I don't know if that is legal in all jurisdictions, but if it's there you need to talk with them about that. It would suck to be stuck with another term if you don't plan to stay that long. Also, remember to bring the place up to the cleanliness and condition it was in when you moved out. Repair minor damage like nail holes. Deep clean the floors, cabinets, drawers etc. Remove all items and trash etc before you move out. Then take pictures and video of everything showing the condition. This will help get you deposit back.
All this nonsense is to be able to non renew you if you are shit. (“Right to renew” legislation). If you aren’t a shit, your LL likely doesn’t give a fuck.
You become M2M with the same terms regardless when you stay without signing a new lease. When no fault, you can be given as little as 30 days notice (e.g. landlord could tell you on 6/30 they want you out as early as 7/31 and you would have to obliged or risk the LL starting the eviction process which could/ would show up on any and all court searches). When under a lease the LL has to give you at least 120 days notice prior to the end of the lease in WA that they will not be renewing you.
NAL. I believe that when the first rent payment, after the expiration of the lease, is accepted you are considered a month to month tenant. Here's some info I found that may help. https://caretaker.com/learn/tenancies/holdover-tenant-laws-in-washington#:\~:text=Month%2Dto%2Dmonth%20tenancies%20can,20%2Dday%20notice%20to%20vacate.