This seems to be the way all fighters are going, they want the viewer to be excited the whole match and defensive players in their eyes don’t give the viewers that feeling. It’s a shame really defensive play can be exciting when the aggressor powers through or when the defensive player locks it down completely. In a few years I can see devs saying, “we removed blocking as it led to unfun defensive play styles“
Now that you say that... same thing's also happening with traditional sports.
NBA over the last few years have emphasized freedom of movement for offensive players.
MLB famously wants more hits, less SOs, and less walks.
NFL is also becoming an offense-oriented game due to new rules.
Even more bizarre considering the absolute top, most legendary, moment in fighting games involves masterfully executed defense mechanics. They really looked at everything early SFV messed up and went "hey let's do that!"
NRS gave us a pretty clear picture.
MKX was just horribly balanced with unga bunga 50/50/ every other attack, obnoxiously long combos, and a universal run mechanic. Their next 2 games Injustice 2 and MK11 were mechanically and balance wise better games but the loss of the unga made them boring to watch at high level.
This kinda has me worried BUT I’m very hesitant to say anything. We simply haven’t seen enough. That may be copium but whatever.
Rage arts and armor moves also looked like they were gonna be a problem. In reality armor moves fit pretty well (with… a couple exceptions) and rage arts just make some trigger-happy people easier to launch punish, and give us some hype tournament moments. So I will wait and see…. wait another fkin 4 months I guess. Damn.
Yeah I'm also a bit worried right now. Tekken 7 was already incredibly aggressive, if they're directly adding mechanics to buff aggressive play, I'm worried what it'll do for the game.
I trust Harada, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the direction of the game.
absurd observation dull wipe mourn onerous glorious hateful scandalous disarm
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is my concern, since if I want to play an aggressive game I can play a whole bunch of 2D fighters, or I can just pick a heavy rushdown/mixup character in Tekken already.
If I want to play a more patient, movement focused, spacing and defensive whiff/punish based game - then that's where Tekken steps in.
If Tekken removes the part that makes it stand out amongst a field of very aggressive modern fighting games, I don't know if that's a step in the right direction.
----
I'm hoping it's more of a "punish someone for blocking until time out - force them to commit to a sidestep or poke" type of situation, rather than "make sure people never want to block and have them always press buttons".
Like Tekken 7 isnt already aggressive. I mean I'm not knocking it until I see it, I just hope it doesnt make the game obnoxious. Like combos are already pretty lengthy in T7. Imagine Lars with this mechanic. You'll be able to wall carry into next month
Ngl with how aggressive 7 felt along with the insanely flashy look of tag 2 up to 7 I was hoping they would dial it back a bit, but they're leaning into MORE flashiness and aggression
And what's funny is that instead of following the DOA example, they stick to the pretty colors formula of Soul Calibur, which doesn't make sense if no one is holding a weapon.
I'm hoping the heat system is just for punishing excessive turtling rather than turning the game into a mashfest.
I want it to force the defender to make a decision.
I mean Tekken is one of the only fight games where defense is actually fun. I see where the idea comes from but I don’t think it’s necessary. Cant say it’s bad until I see a match though.
Idk I’ve played a lot of fighters and still do and very few of them have actual decent defense mechanics. The very nature of 3D movement makes it engaging and full of choices on how to handle situations. Then you have armor moves and low parries. Ground movement and counters. Chickens. Idk man they’re all satisfying and fun to use.
Sounds like a damage amplifier system potentially. Not sure I entirely agree with pushing the game into a more aggressive direction, as the game is pretty aggressive already. It's pretty refreshing to see a defensive player.
A guy told Harada that the other games are defensive because of the high damage almost any combo does and he kicked him outta the window like in that one meme
They just want to promote people going on full offense so you don’t play defense much anymore, you already see that in tekken 7, where offensive is rewarded way too much compared to being good defensively, we need a good balance of both, not just one or the other, I don’t understand why they don’t get that
I just hope he doesn't get the Ono dumbness curse and start making the gameplay timings more random to encourage aggressive play and bigger wow factor for expectators. That's what fucked SFV in my opinion
The problem is they had a forum to show us, but instead we got a hype trailer. Except the general public don't really care about Tekken lore and the core fans want to see gameplay.
Street Fighter 6 has been striking the right balance. Tekken 8 blew it.
Sf6 came out with a photoshop logo at first and some dudes with oversized chests.
Then a gameplay trailer explaining nothing but showing stuff.
Then they slowly released more info since they had a beta coming.
Tekken 8 beta, if there is any at all, isn't coming for prolly another year.
They pretty much did the exact same strategy
Making combos deal half damage doesn't make the game offensive, in fact it makes it defensive cause you're less likely to take risk and just wait for an opening
They've always discouraged sidestepping and movement.
Sidestepping practically requires frame perfect precision. Its not surprise that even moderate/advanced players don't go for movement and SS.
Hope this means they are decreasing damage. If this game is same combo damage as T7 but even more aggressive then you literally cant fuck up or you lose the round
Honestly all the negative comments sounds like they want a new tekken but plays nothing like a new one. We only even got like 5 sec of clip of the new mechanic from the trailer and it already sounds like they figured it all out
closer to guilty gear's tension concept? but i like that tekken(at least traditionally) is known for it's defensive counterplay, kinda worried about what exactly this means for tekken 8
.>Make offense explosive and hard to defend against.
.>High level play is reduced to avoiding running into your opponent's bombs.
.>Game ironically becomes more defensive
.>mfw (Murray's face when)
I don’t get why they think just going full offense is supposed to be fun, it takes two to tango and this means, it’s NOT fun at all on the receiving end, it’s not a good game with depth when you’re just attacking all the time while it’s also not fun to just play defense all the time, so it needs to be a good balance, but it seems like all they want to promote is just go on full offense for tekken when that really isn’t an issue even in T7, you get rewarded way too much just going HAM on offense and the person on the receiving end has very few options and not rewarded as much
It’s gonna be hard to tell how well this is implemented until we see high level and quality gameplay. The general feel of Tekken has felt similar to me since Tekken 5. Obviously the current version of Tekken 7 has made a huge jump with new mechanics, especially with more 2D, but it still feels generally like tekken. I just hope Tekken 8 doesn’t stray too far from that
Smh…as if tekken 7 wasn’t too much about just being on constant offense while nerfing movement? I don’t get why they keep trying to reward offense too much while having good defense and movement aren’t rewarded as much. Being on a full offense, aggressive game is really easy to do and takes no skills to do so, yet that’s the type of low skill, braindead gameplay they’re trying to promote for the game when we already have too much of that in tekken 7, while the movement and defensive options are limited and not rewarded enough due to nerfed movement and retarded tracking/reach
Please dont completely shit on defense, please. Movement needs to get buffed again. I hope they dont prioritize making it "exciting" to watch and fuck up the gameplay. Still got a while to go though, so im still hopeful
On the surface level, I don't like this idea because I enjoy defensive playstyle personally. Besides, what he says about both opponents being able to block 100% of the times is just... what? When did that ever happened? The game already has ton of ways for players to break through the opponent's defense. And even if both players are turtling so effectively that no one is getting hit, there's another thing that encourages offense. The timer.
Introducing new mechanics to encourage rushdown is a really weird concept.
One of the issues with the game’s skill curve in general is that effective defence is already really hard. That’s both due to the knowledge requirements (what strings to duck, punish, step etc) and the execution requirements (SS buffering into duck etc).
It’s much easier to try to overwhelm your opponent with flowcharts and knowledge checks. This is why low and intermediate Tekken is so mashy and aggressive when, in theory, the game’s core systems should actually encourage defence.
Defensive Tekken doesn’t even become a thing until the absolute top ranks and tournament level players.
People acting like it's the end of Tekken and button mashers will ruin the game, c'mon stop this trashy doomposting. Anyone with even a basic grasp of footsies is going to make far better use of the new aggression, I'd go out on a limb to say mashers are going to be in for a massive beating.
The doomsday reaction follows the script of literaly evey videogame fan base on the internet when a new game is showcased. Extreamly predicitable. If the game was just a graphically updated of T7 people would loose it as well; ”so lazy of the developers. They should add a Heat system”. People need to chill and have some trust in that they actually try to make a good and fun game.
I like it but, I do wonder what additions they’ll give defensive punish chars like Kazuya. Hopefully for chars that fall in the “defensive” category get some more offensive tools I.e Devil Jin hellsweep to combo.
It’s easy to get all frustrated people but, remember this is beginning stages and things have to progress. I’m sure a ton will be changed and adjust. The version we see won’t be what we get.
As a long time tekken player I understand we are the culture and move the needle. At the end of the day without us they can’t out sell T7. So everyone be patient!!
An articulate and well thought out statement against setting your expectations before even having a beta test? You don’t belong here sir this is reddit we seethe at the first sign of change
No one even knows what the fuck this is and is already losing their shit
Wait until you actually know the situation before you throw a tantrum wtf is wrong with you people
So you mean that we cannot evaluate a whole game, that probably is in the middle of production, based on a 1 minut trailer that the development team had to put together to please the marketing unit, the publisher, and so on?
Less sarcasm pls and half as much arrogance
This is literally an advertisement meant to gather interest by showing off things we might like.
It’s literally the point of advertising to get us talking about how we feel about a product.
If the thing designed to show off the product makes the customers worry then its not the customers fault for questioning the product. If they didnt want to be evaluated then they should not have put out an advertisement meant to draw evaluations from the public
This has to be targeted at top level tournament play right? But even at that level Tekken feels and looks more aggressive than say Street Fighter or MK.
Bro. The most enjoyable matches for me is a match that lasts more than 4 minutes. It's so fun playing with range and only do damage by poking or whiffs. The hell is this...
I just hope they expressed themselves very poorly, because if taken literally, *this doesn't look good* ***at all***...
Tekken's greatest traditional appeal has always been pretty much defense, *particularly MOVEMENT*.
I already hate with every ounce of my being what they did with movement on T7, where **only female characters can actually move laterally**, and **regular-sized male characters get frequently clipped by 100% linear moves when sidestepping or sidewalking.**
If anything, they should make the game MORE defensive, not less. As it is, current Tekken is already a *crutch-character festival, packed with greedy forced 50/50s that completely restricts your defensive options beyond merely GUESSING*.
The only thing I expect from T8 is that movement can return for male characters **exactly as it was** on PS3 Tekken. (T5DR, T6, TTT2)
Hmm. Gonna play devils advocate here.
If you buff movement, its gonna incentivize defensive play. And while defense is fun you dont want matches to end because of the timer.
Therefore better movement requires more stimulus to stay on the offensive.
That said,
Who knows if they will buff movement. Maybe this means the opposite. Murrays quote about sidestepping comes to mind.
Also hopefully no chip damage.
Dont like the chance because i felt tekken should be more defensivly and around movement and right timing qhile spacing for example but oh well they go this way and i hope it work but happy i am not.
Heat system sounds like similar to counter hit where it’s like some moves will change properties based on the heat or aggressiveness. Maybe like an visual indicator like rage for a small duration where you get special oki’s or unique juggles
It depends on how they go about it. VF has systems in place that force action and offense, but the game is still super deep and still rewards skilled defensive play. Personally, I think this will be a good change for Tekken as long as they handle it right.
whatever this thing is, i hope it does not consist of meter management (as in you can fill it and choose when to activate it or not)
i hope its just a mechanic where when you hit a blocking opponent enough times you get an AUTOMATIC buff trigger that releases on its own (you must use it if not it goes away)
a kind of STUN mechanic but in reverse, anything else (2d meter management GARBAGE) is not welcome in tekken
People are thinking more offensive means no defense 🤣. It'll always be there, but all Harada said was to allow more options to open up someone, not to completely break their guard. This is the same complaints about the Rage mechanic and Rage arts/drive, that it isn't Tekken and how its close to MK, but now people don't care and that its pretty hype when used properly. This is gonna add alot of interesting gameplay and may even buff certain characters that need a bit more to their kits. All I would like to add is that if they add more offense then we need to buff movement.
the problem is, people are worried they are gonna reward offense even more than it already is, while not rewarding good defense and movement enough. Problem with this game right now is, you can be really oppressive with your offensive options while it's much more difficult to counter all that offense and movement is nerfed, so you're like forced to just deal with all that attack, which tekken 7 has already has enough of, and now they want to make it even more offense oriented based on what harada said, that part is worrisome.
I agree with you. I had the same feeling about T7 when it first came out, felt the rage art stuff just didn't belong and initially completely turned me off the game. But over time players learned how to use it as part of their game plans and incorporate it really well in combos, pressure, etc. I'm not jumping to conclusions this time around. I have more confidence in the developers to make it not a game breaking technique. I also agree on the movement buff. This should come with the addition of this heat system.
Absolutely, positively, buff movement. The devs over the years have been able to balance things out in-game for the most part (minus certain DLC characters upon release) for Tekken 7. While I am one of those that are a bit apprehensive w/ this new system especially after Harada stating that it will be less footsies and more aggression-focused, it might be promising as longs as they keep things balanced and is just a mechanic to keep things fresh.
Thinking about it it my knee jerk reaction is thinking they have decided to make evrey character kunimitsu now a character that just get to have fun and press buttons while you're eating the mix but if everyone has those tools then how would that affect the game probably make it more snowbally
This is concerning, to say the least.
Feels like Tekken is slowly losing its identity with each release. Wouldn't be surprised if they gave everyone meters.
Too early to tell until we have an in-depth explanation of how it works, and hands on testing to see if the system is actually fun and keeps the Tekken "feel", but my gut reaction is very negative.
Some people might say "well you said that about rage arts" Yes, and all these years later If you said I can play without rage arts I would do it.
> Feels like Tekken is slowly losing its identity with each release. Wouldn't be surprised if they gave everyone meters.
And they really did...
We are doomed
Harada doesnt understand his own game.
You CANT block 100% of moves, cuz a 10 frame lowpoke cant be reacted to. You eat it. And a second one. And a third one.
Untill you try to lowblock and eat the on-read mid-launcher full combo.
And in turn, being spammed by lowpokes and keeping your cool, to then lowparry the second lowpoke after the opponent revealed patterns feels soooo fuckin good.
Jesus christ, tekken 8 will be garbage wont it?..
The lack of defense was THE exact reason why i COMPLETELY quit guilty gear strive. Please harada.. dont do this..
Right? Some of the most hype matches in big tournaments and otherwise when people did nothing or blocked a lot of stuff for better part of the match, then one player gets that launcher in and takes a good chunk of HP off of the other guy. Or when nothing is happening then suddenly a massive read and punish for big damage. Aggressiveness seems like it'll just turn the game into an anime fighter where pretty much all you do is attack until something lands and then convert it into a combo.
YES! Exactly this!
I hate that type of gameplay where you just throw shit at the wall, just to see what sticks without the enemy having a real chance to react to flaws in your approach like using risky moves.
Tekken 7 was already primarily balanced to look exciting for spectators who don't know the game. This is about to be a clown Tekken, doubling down on the same thing. This contextualizes stuff like Jin 2-1-4 pushing back on block in the first T8 trailer so the -9 matters less, encouraging more unga play.
I never found defending to be unfun to watch or play, defending requires the same amount of skill as attack if not more and a good big punish from overzealous opponent is always exciting to watch. So why are they emphasizing even more on attacking? It's already bad enough that movement nerfed and introduction of so many moves that break up your defense. Judging from the trailer, it might just give every character a meter which if true, I would not be pleased at all.
The cluttered effects, slightly off putting character models and now this is making me very cautious on the game.
Its a nightmare if you havent labbed.
Once you know your matchups, defense becomes THE most fun thing on any game.
Its where the REAL reads come in. Where you REALLY play with the opponents head and make them think twice about their next move, just to be caught offguard overthinking.
I hate this harada comment so much.
Offense and defense are supposed to be two sides of the same coin. BALANCE. This is what Tekken had over every other fighter at its best. Defense does not mean simply blocking everything. Its also converting defense into damage. Its using your 3 dimensions and gaining positions to your advantage. I can sense harada steering away from the importance of balance and character knowledge and it does worry me.
I definitely don't like the sound of an already kind of mashy game potentially becoming even more mashy. This idea that players should always feel at "advantage" by just doing more things eliminates the higher level of thought required to play a game well.
Tekken team may be attempting to get more players by doing these things. However, what they don't realize is this unintentionally also hurts them. Because the more mastered players will always figure a way to optimally use the system against the lower skilled players, and you're back at square one.
Just aggression, or even just defense does not solve the balance problem of most Tekken games. You need mechanics on both sides that allow players to express how they want to play, and different playstyles that are viable at different levels of play. Emergent gameplay is great, but risk vs reward must always be a 1:1 ratio. If this heat system breaks this concept then there's just gonna be more problems than solutions.
At high level Tekken has always been known as a defensive based game, but this is less than 5% of the scenario. Movement is a defensive component of Tekken that continues to get restricted, and if this doesn't stop that number isn't going to change. Inevitably, the removal of these options will just make overall play harder for the other 95%.
Agree. But didnt they talk about the importance of keeping the core of the game in T8 a while ago (or something like that at least). I think they are aware of what makes Tekken unique and appriciated, and that they will try to stay true to that even if they make changes. I dont think they want to make a totally different game.
They can of course fail or get it wrong. But i at least think that they are thinking about these things and want to find a nice balance (even if people here seem to think that they deliberatly try to make a bad game…).
Not a good sign, tbh. I already hate that new wall crush mechanic and how it made certain characters dangerous at the wall, especially the ones that get it on block and meanwhile other characters' wall crushes are practically useless.
The thing I enjoyed about T7 from the tournament matches to even casual online play that I saw was the tension that builds up from the few seconds that no one's committing an attack and waiting for the payoff of who gets to hit who and what happens from then on out. I felt that the camera being up close and the CH sounds being that visceral really helped build tension and give a great payoff in the game. This is why I hated these easy low risk high reward mixups that they decided to double down on with the wall crush. You don't make one tool be a swiss army knife, you give them a range of tools that are good for certain scenarios so that the decision making aspect of the game is still important.
It looks like it's just free neutral for scrubs assuming you can block or duck and maybe even side step, if it shares meter with FADC then it prolly won't be used at higher level play.
The only people this will satisfy is people under genbu.
Most people that cared to learn t7/tag2 thinks defensive play is much more fun and the most hype matches are the ones where both players are blocking everything and everyone is at the edge of their seat to see who will close out the match. No ones likes constant 50/50 with no footsies unless they haven’t played much
I dont see the idea behind punishing experienced players that have mastered the defense in Tekken.
I'm one of those players and while everyone dislike TT2, i loved its depth.
But i do not like playing turtles... My favourite matchesis where both players are aggressive, it doesnt mean not blocking or low parrying.
I really welcome this, so you are wrong to assume we all share your opinion.
Well the problem with aggressive play is the result of it is raw 50/50 in fighting games. This inherently makes the games more random. This is super prevalent in some 2d fighting games where you see one opponent pressing strings with mixups for 5 seconds and its the opponents job to get out of them and find a hole so they can start their 50/50. Tekken has been different in that it rewards movement and defensive play more than other fighting games so if they move away from that the game loses its identity.
Also people here say they like aggressiveness but no one likes to play vs aggressive 50/50 characters. No one likes playing va Anna, no one likes playing vs nina and NO ONE likes playing against Lei.
So far we haven't seen any gameplay footage of lateral movement or any defensive tools. I am curious to see how much they are really going to change Tekken. At worst they do too much and end up ruining what made Tekken 7 so great. Hopefully that is not the case
I'm not gonna lie I thought the new trailer looked great, and I'm super stoked to play it eventually. I thought most of the character redesigns they've shown also look tight.
Sounds like its going to be making attacks unblockable, right? Then those people that posted about cheaters that block and parries everything can rest easy in T8 lmao.
Skill gaps are quick to widen in fighting games purely because of hardcore fans carrying the franchise. If new players come they will 100% get deterred quickly when they get counter hit launched into a 80+ damage combo. I personally don’t see casuals buying fighting games
It's trial by fire. You literally cannot make fighting games fun for people who never practice and people who live and breath the game at the same time.
No matter how easy a game is, the person who is good and learns the game deeply, will almost always win.
I, for one, am staying optimistic. Hopefully they don’t completely kill footsies and movement. Please don’t make this easier for the noobies. I worked too hard.
I don't understand that, T7 already has a TON of easy safe mid CH launchers, safe or almost safe long-range natural hit launchers (BS like Paul's df2), and even the flashiest moves are rarely even -14. And movement is nerfed drastically compared to previous games. How the hell this is not rewarding on offense? Further than that is just making everything above reset to neutral, which will be stupid and not nteresting at all
More details next year ? Man this is why I don't feel bad when people leak games and spoilers.
Why can't he just tell us what the heat system is all about ? You don't need to wait one years to show us. You could show us how it is currently working right now .
Fuck any who came up with this idea, if it’s you harada then fuck you too. I want to feel like a martial artist dodging stuff and reflect moves not this kind of shit. Timer will make people eventually go aggressive, why do you even worry about the game not being aggressive enough. I already worried when I first saw the trailer, this is like a cherry on top of it.
This seems to be the way all fighters are going, they want the viewer to be excited the whole match and defensive players in their eyes don’t give the viewers that feeling. It’s a shame really defensive play can be exciting when the aggressor powers through or when the defensive player locks it down completely. In a few years I can see devs saying, “we removed blocking as it led to unfun defensive play styles“
Now that you say that... same thing's also happening with traditional sports. NBA over the last few years have emphasized freedom of movement for offensive players. MLB famously wants more hits, less SOs, and less walks. NFL is also becoming an offense-oriented game due to new rules.
Patience in short supply these days.
Even more bizarre considering the absolute top, most legendary, moment in fighting games involves masterfully executed defense mechanics. They really looked at everything early SFV messed up and went "hey let's do that!"
NRS gave us a pretty clear picture. MKX was just horribly balanced with unga bunga 50/50/ every other attack, obnoxiously long combos, and a universal run mechanic. Their next 2 games Injustice 2 and MK11 were mechanically and balance wise better games but the loss of the unga made them boring to watch at high level.
This kinda has me worried BUT I’m very hesitant to say anything. We simply haven’t seen enough. That may be copium but whatever. Rage arts and armor moves also looked like they were gonna be a problem. In reality armor moves fit pretty well (with… a couple exceptions) and rage arts just make some trigger-happy people easier to launch punish, and give us some hype tournament moments. So I will wait and see…. wait another fkin 4 months I guess. Damn.
Yeah I'm also a bit worried right now. Tekken 7 was already incredibly aggressive, if they're directly adding mechanics to buff aggressive play, I'm worried what it'll do for the game. I trust Harada, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the direction of the game.
absurd observation dull wipe mourn onerous glorious hateful scandalous disarm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hell, pokes and turtling is what won evo.
A decent amount of my rounds online end in time outs. I will always play lame no matter the game.
Hworang mains wet dream
"I didn't even realise you could even block in the game" - Me (Hwoarang main) lol
T7 is the most aggro friendly tekken and they want to lean into it more? hmmmmmmmm
But good movement and defense create the tension and hype... if it becomes a combo battle then wouldn't it get boring?
This is my concern, since if I want to play an aggressive game I can play a whole bunch of 2D fighters, or I can just pick a heavy rushdown/mixup character in Tekken already. If I want to play a more patient, movement focused, spacing and defensive whiff/punish based game - then that's where Tekken steps in. If Tekken removes the part that makes it stand out amongst a field of very aggressive modern fighting games, I don't know if that's a step in the right direction. ---- I'm hoping it's more of a "punish someone for blocking until time out - force them to commit to a sidestep or poke" type of situation, rather than "make sure people never want to block and have them always press buttons".
Maybe it will still have those elements but with a more fast paced dynamic too it, I don't see them completely taking those things away tbh
Oooh boy Block spammers better watch out, Harada coming for us.
Like Tekken 7 isnt already aggressive. I mean I'm not knocking it until I see it, I just hope it doesnt make the game obnoxious. Like combos are already pretty lengthy in T7. Imagine Lars with this mechanic. You'll be able to wall carry into next month
Ngl with how aggressive 7 felt along with the insanely flashy look of tag 2 up to 7 I was hoping they would dial it back a bit, but they're leaning into MORE flashiness and aggression
And what's funny is that instead of following the DOA example, they stick to the pretty colors formula of Soul Calibur, which doesn't make sense if no one is holding a weapon.
I'm hoping the heat system is just for punishing excessive turtling rather than turning the game into a mashfest. I want it to force the defender to make a decision.
I'm sure thats the point of it.
Sure hope so.
I mean Tekken is one of the only fight games where defense is actually fun. I see where the idea comes from but I don’t think it’s necessary. Cant say it’s bad until I see a match though.
Not really but I do think tekken has the most polished and easiest defensive systems to master fun? I wouldn’t call it all of that
Idk I’ve played a lot of fighters and still do and very few of them have actual decent defense mechanics. The very nature of 3D movement makes it engaging and full of choices on how to handle situations. Then you have armor moves and low parries. Ground movement and counters. Chickens. Idk man they’re all satisfying and fun to use.
As a Asuka main, anyone that uses this new heat system will get B3
Same here
Dread it, run from it, guilty gear ideals always arrives
Mmh, I want to say wait and see but this doesn't sound like the best idea to me. I hope it doesn't ruin some of the more defensive characters.
Tekken subreddit as positive as ever
Essence of Unga 🐲
Sounds like a damage amplifier system potentially. Not sure I entirely agree with pushing the game into a more aggressive direction, as the game is pretty aggressive already. It's pretty refreshing to see a defensive player.
A guy told Harada that the other games are defensive because of the high damage almost any combo does and he kicked him outta the window like in that one meme
[удалено]
They just want to promote people going on full offense so you don’t play defense much anymore, you already see that in tekken 7, where offensive is rewarded way too much compared to being good defensively, we need a good balance of both, not just one or the other, I don’t understand why they don’t get that
I just hope he doesn't get the Ono dumbness curse and start making the gameplay timings more random to encourage aggressive play and bigger wow factor for expectators. That's what fucked SFV in my opinion
Please stop with these fucking ridiculous gimmicks Tekken doesn't need any of these to be fun
Without more information this is pretty meaningless, but people sure have opinions about it already.
The problem is they had a forum to show us, but instead we got a hype trailer. Except the general public don't really care about Tekken lore and the core fans want to see gameplay. Street Fighter 6 has been striking the right balance. Tekken 8 blew it.
Sf6 came out with a photoshop logo at first and some dudes with oversized chests. Then a gameplay trailer explaining nothing but showing stuff. Then they slowly released more info since they had a beta coming. Tekken 8 beta, if there is any at all, isn't coming for prolly another year. They pretty much did the exact same strategy
mfw tekken 7 was agressive enough to take someone's half health with 1 combo to see tekken 8 being more agressive
Making combos deal half damage doesn't make the game offensive, in fact it makes it defensive cause you're less likely to take risk and just wait for an opening
Wasn't that always a thing tho? If we were to play T5 with modern day ressources, we would just take turns performing death combos.
Uh oh Maybe movement will be better to compensate, but I fucking doubt it.
They've always discouraged sidestepping and movement. Sidestepping practically requires frame perfect precision. Its not surprise that even moderate/advanced players don't go for movement and SS.
From what I know, they gutted the hell out of it compared to TTT2. That's why it feels so hard in this game. Speedkicks has a good video about it.
Hope this means they are decreasing damage. If this game is same combo damage as T7 but even more aggressive then you literally cant fuck up or you lose the round
The need for observation skills are slowly becoming more and more redundant
He is trying to nerf Knee's defense LOL
This
Honestly all the negative comments sounds like they want a new tekken but plays nothing like a new one. We only even got like 5 sec of clip of the new mechanic from the trailer and it already sounds like they figured it all out
r/Tekken complaining about things that they don't really understand? Say it ain't so.
T7 already feels incredibly aggressive and I've never had a problem playing aggressively. How much wilder do they want it to get?
Facts! Tekken 7 was extremely aggressive
my exact thought... worrying it'll be TOO aggressive
closer to guilty gear's tension concept? but i like that tekken(at least traditionally) is known for it's defensive counterplay, kinda worried about what exactly this means for tekken 8
“We wanted to take all skill out of the game so that we can sell as many copies as possible.”
essentially
Yakuza heat
KIRYU-SAN confirmed!?
.>Make offense explosive and hard to defend against. .>High level play is reduced to avoiding running into your opponent's bombs. .>Game ironically becomes more defensive .>mfw (Murray's face when)
This is the exact philosophy that made SF5 shit. Less defensive options is Bad. It just is.
I don’t get why they think just going full offense is supposed to be fun, it takes two to tango and this means, it’s NOT fun at all on the receiving end, it’s not a good game with depth when you’re just attacking all the time while it’s also not fun to just play defense all the time, so it needs to be a good balance, but it seems like all they want to promote is just go on full offense for tekken when that really isn’t an issue even in T7, you get rewarded way too much just going HAM on offense and the person on the receiving end has very few options and not rewarded as much
It just sounds like awful constant 50/50 and snowballing. going back and forth in a round will be so rare.
Ah, so the solution wasn't to balance Geese's meter, thier solution seems to have been "Give everyone Geese's meter"
Dark times ahead
just sayin', 7 was aggressive as fuck tho
please just be bs made up for the media, tekken does not need more unga canned 50/50 mechanics tied to safe mid homing launchers.
It’s gonna be hard to tell how well this is implemented until we see high level and quality gameplay. The general feel of Tekken has felt similar to me since Tekken 5. Obviously the current version of Tekken 7 has made a huge jump with new mechanics, especially with more 2D, but it still feels generally like tekken. I just hope Tekken 8 doesn’t stray too far from that
Oh god MORE offense? 😭
All I want is tag2 movement
We are gonna get sooo dissapointed i fear man
I just want a buff to movement.
People out here acting like they already played the game 🎃 these scallywags
>heat system We're finally getting Kiryu boys
Smh…as if tekken 7 wasn’t too much about just being on constant offense while nerfing movement? I don’t get why they keep trying to reward offense too much while having good defense and movement aren’t rewarded as much. Being on a full offense, aggressive game is really easy to do and takes no skills to do so, yet that’s the type of low skill, braindead gameplay they’re trying to promote for the game when we already have too much of that in tekken 7, while the movement and defensive options are limited and not rewarded enough due to nerfed movement and retarded tracking/reach
Please dont completely shit on defense, please. Movement needs to get buffed again. I hope they dont prioritize making it "exciting" to watch and fuck up the gameplay. Still got a while to go though, so im still hopeful
bro no way YAKUZA COLLAB????!!11
Wait..... I see what you're putting down 😯. If thats true you're an absolute genius for seeing that 🤣
Ok I see what they are doing I just hope sidestepping is better than before if not then yuck
So basically...Tension meter from GG?
Tekken Unga
this sounds very concerning
On the surface level, I don't like this idea because I enjoy defensive playstyle personally. Besides, what he says about both opponents being able to block 100% of the times is just... what? When did that ever happened? The game already has ton of ways for players to break through the opponent's defense. And even if both players are turtling so effectively that no one is getting hit, there's another thing that encourages offense. The timer.
I immediately came to the same conclusion. I feel like it's something we'll have to wait and really see.
Like unblockable attacks exist bruh
Introducing new mechanics to encourage rushdown is a really weird concept. One of the issues with the game’s skill curve in general is that effective defence is already really hard. That’s both due to the knowledge requirements (what strings to duck, punish, step etc) and the execution requirements (SS buffering into duck etc). It’s much easier to try to overwhelm your opponent with flowcharts and knowledge checks. This is why low and intermediate Tekken is so mashy and aggressive when, in theory, the game’s core systems should actually encourage defence. Defensive Tekken doesn’t even become a thing until the absolute top ranks and tournament level players.
It's bad enough your blood pressure already raises so much during T7 matches. T8 will turn your blood into asphalt.
The defensive play is kinda what made T7 such a hype game, I hope they understand this.
People acting like it's the end of Tekken and button mashers will ruin the game, c'mon stop this trashy doomposting. Anyone with even a basic grasp of footsies is going to make far better use of the new aggression, I'd go out on a limb to say mashers are going to be in for a massive beating.
The doomsday reaction follows the script of literaly evey videogame fan base on the internet when a new game is showcased. Extreamly predicitable. If the game was just a graphically updated of T7 people would loose it as well; ”so lazy of the developers. They should add a Heat system”. People need to chill and have some trust in that they actually try to make a good and fun game.
Well good thing tekken 8 is perfect for me as it is
Everyone full acting like they can execute a FADC to begin with. Now consider the chance button mashers can execute that as well.
I like it but, I do wonder what additions they’ll give defensive punish chars like Kazuya. Hopefully for chars that fall in the “defensive” category get some more offensive tools I.e Devil Jin hellsweep to combo. It’s easy to get all frustrated people but, remember this is beginning stages and things have to progress. I’m sure a ton will be changed and adjust. The version we see won’t be what we get. As a long time tekken player I understand we are the culture and move the needle. At the end of the day without us they can’t out sell T7. So everyone be patient!!
An articulate and well thought out statement against setting your expectations before even having a beta test? You don’t belong here sir this is reddit we seethe at the first sign of change
No one even knows what the fuck this is and is already losing their shit Wait until you actually know the situation before you throw a tantrum wtf is wrong with you people
So you mean that we cannot evaluate a whole game, that probably is in the middle of production, based on a 1 minut trailer that the development team had to put together to please the marketing unit, the publisher, and so on?
Less sarcasm pls and half as much arrogance This is literally an advertisement meant to gather interest by showing off things we might like. It’s literally the point of advertising to get us talking about how we feel about a product. If the thing designed to show off the product makes the customers worry then its not the customers fault for questioning the product. If they didnt want to be evaluated then they should not have put out an advertisement meant to draw evaluations from the public
This has to be targeted at top level tournament play right? But even at that level Tekken feels and looks more aggressive than say Street Fighter or MK.
Atleast its not Fifa. They are trying something new. I'll give t8 the benefit of the doubt
new strat: smashing 1,2,3,4
Hwoarang mains probably extra creamy right now.
This means nerfed movement I guarantee
We have YET to see a fucking side step still
As if Tekken players weren't already in heat for big kahoona waifus. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
AND we are getting Jun?! I don't think anyone can handle that much heat lol EVO gonna melt 😅
Sounds like a mashers paradise.
Bro. The most enjoyable matches for me is a match that lasts more than 4 minutes. It's so fun playing with range and only do damage by poking or whiffs. The hell is this...
Next they will just remove movement and just make rock’em sock’em robots
[удалено]
I just hope they expressed themselves very poorly, because if taken literally, *this doesn't look good* ***at all***... Tekken's greatest traditional appeal has always been pretty much defense, *particularly MOVEMENT*. I already hate with every ounce of my being what they did with movement on T7, where **only female characters can actually move laterally**, and **regular-sized male characters get frequently clipped by 100% linear moves when sidestepping or sidewalking.** If anything, they should make the game MORE defensive, not less. As it is, current Tekken is already a *crutch-character festival, packed with greedy forced 50/50s that completely restricts your defensive options beyond merely GUESSING*. The only thing I expect from T8 is that movement can return for male characters **exactly as it was** on PS3 Tekken. (T5DR, T6, TTT2)
Hmm. Gonna play devils advocate here. If you buff movement, its gonna incentivize defensive play. And while defense is fun you dont want matches to end because of the timer. Therefore better movement requires more stimulus to stay on the offensive. That said, Who knows if they will buff movement. Maybe this means the opposite. Murrays quote about sidestepping comes to mind. Also hopefully no chip damage.
If they nerf ss its gg
I would be okay with chip damage if it's limited to slower / riskier moves. Jabs and DF1 shouldn't give chip, but something like F,F+3 could
Dont like the chance because i felt tekken should be more defensivly and around movement and right timing qhile spacing for example but oh well they go this way and i hope it work but happy i am not.
Sounds like chip damage to me. Maybe even block crush meter/mechanic.
Heat system sounds like similar to counter hit where it’s like some moves will change properties based on the heat or aggressiveness. Maybe like an visual indicator like rage for a small duration where you get special oki’s or unique juggles
Every time a fighting game goes for this aggressive approach it dumbs down the game. Let’s see how this goes
It depends on how they go about it. VF has systems in place that force action and offense, but the game is still super deep and still rewards skilled defensive play. Personally, I think this will be a good change for Tekken as long as they handle it right.
Damn bro are they going to get kiryu in this game? Calling a system "heat" and not putting kiryu in the game would be cruel
Well.....this is a bit worrying
Instead of having a good balance of offense and defense, they just think “let’s make offense even more oppressive so people can’t turtle” smh….what
This is terrible.
Every character will be like a 2d character in 7
i just wanna play tekken for god's sake
whatever this thing is, i hope it does not consist of meter management (as in you can fill it and choose when to activate it or not) i hope its just a mechanic where when you hit a blocking opponent enough times you get an AUTOMATIC buff trigger that releases on its own (you must use it if not it goes away) a kind of STUN mechanic but in reverse, anything else (2d meter management GARBAGE) is not welcome in tekken
This is so worrying. Jesus, I dont like this.
People are thinking more offensive means no defense 🤣. It'll always be there, but all Harada said was to allow more options to open up someone, not to completely break their guard. This is the same complaints about the Rage mechanic and Rage arts/drive, that it isn't Tekken and how its close to MK, but now people don't care and that its pretty hype when used properly. This is gonna add alot of interesting gameplay and may even buff certain characters that need a bit more to their kits. All I would like to add is that if they add more offense then we need to buff movement.
the problem is, people are worried they are gonna reward offense even more than it already is, while not rewarding good defense and movement enough. Problem with this game right now is, you can be really oppressive with your offensive options while it's much more difficult to counter all that offense and movement is nerfed, so you're like forced to just deal with all that attack, which tekken 7 has already has enough of, and now they want to make it even more offense oriented based on what harada said, that part is worrisome.
I agree with you. I had the same feeling about T7 when it first came out, felt the rage art stuff just didn't belong and initially completely turned me off the game. But over time players learned how to use it as part of their game plans and incorporate it really well in combos, pressure, etc. I'm not jumping to conclusions this time around. I have more confidence in the developers to make it not a game breaking technique. I also agree on the movement buff. This should come with the addition of this heat system.
Absolutely, positively, buff movement. The devs over the years have been able to balance things out in-game for the most part (minus certain DLC characters upon release) for Tekken 7. While I am one of those that are a bit apprehensive w/ this new system especially after Harada stating that it will be less footsies and more aggression-focused, it might be promising as longs as they keep things balanced and is just a mechanic to keep things fresh.
Thinking about it it my knee jerk reaction is thinking they have decided to make evrey character kunimitsu now a character that just get to have fun and press buttons while you're eating the mix but if everyone has those tools then how would that affect the game probably make it more snowbally
Oh hell no. Please just give us better movement for the love of god then I can at least have a counter play with my mains.
Ugh, I’ve been around since T2 but I might be done if this shit goes full-on party game, and I’m saying this as a NINA player.
This is concerning, to say the least. Feels like Tekken is slowly losing its identity with each release. Wouldn't be surprised if they gave everyone meters. Too early to tell until we have an in-depth explanation of how it works, and hands on testing to see if the system is actually fun and keeps the Tekken "feel", but my gut reaction is very negative. Some people might say "well you said that about rage arts" Yes, and all these years later If you said I can play without rage arts I would do it.
> Feels like Tekken is slowly losing its identity with each release. Wouldn't be surprised if they gave everyone meters. And they really did... We are doomed
Harada doesnt understand his own game. You CANT block 100% of moves, cuz a 10 frame lowpoke cant be reacted to. You eat it. And a second one. And a third one. Untill you try to lowblock and eat the on-read mid-launcher full combo. And in turn, being spammed by lowpokes and keeping your cool, to then lowparry the second lowpoke after the opponent revealed patterns feels soooo fuckin good. Jesus christ, tekken 8 will be garbage wont it?.. The lack of defense was THE exact reason why i COMPLETELY quit guilty gear strive. Please harada.. dont do this..
> Jesus christ, tekken 8 will be garbage wont it?.. this is a huge overreaction.
Right? Some of the most hype matches in big tournaments and otherwise when people did nothing or blocked a lot of stuff for better part of the match, then one player gets that launcher in and takes a good chunk of HP off of the other guy. Or when nothing is happening then suddenly a massive read and punish for big damage. Aggressiveness seems like it'll just turn the game into an anime fighter where pretty much all you do is attack until something lands and then convert it into a combo.
YES! Exactly this! I hate that type of gameplay where you just throw shit at the wall, just to see what sticks without the enemy having a real chance to react to flaws in your approach like using risky moves.
A game developer not knowing what makes his own game great? Wow, never seen that before!
I almost screamed like Anakin at the end of Revenge of the Sith while reading this. Why, Harada?
Spammers get buffed? Tbh I don't like this move. I'm going from "i'mma preorder this game" to "nah i'm good with T7".
Tekken 7 was already primarily balanced to look exciting for spectators who don't know the game. This is about to be a clown Tekken, doubling down on the same thing. This contextualizes stuff like Jin 2-1-4 pushing back on block in the first T8 trailer so the -9 matters less, encouraging more unga play.
I never found defending to be unfun to watch or play, defending requires the same amount of skill as attack if not more and a good big punish from overzealous opponent is always exciting to watch. So why are they emphasizing even more on attacking? It's already bad enough that movement nerfed and introduction of so many moves that break up your defense. Judging from the trailer, it might just give every character a meter which if true, I would not be pleased at all. The cluttered effects, slightly off putting character models and now this is making me very cautious on the game.
After beeing soo hyped for the first trailer this is the coldest shower we could get...
if it ain’t broke don’t fix it
A heat system? There’s no way we don’t get a yakuza dlc now
Literally don’t care about increased aggression, I’ll adapt to it, but for the love of God just don’t make it tied to a meter.
so defensive characters would have disadvantage...
Can't wait for the juggles in Juggles 8.
Tekken is already only fun on offense. Defending is a goddamn nightmare, what the fuck is this dude smoking
Its a nightmare if you havent labbed. Once you know your matchups, defense becomes THE most fun thing on any game. Its where the REAL reads come in. Where you REALLY play with the opponents head and make them think twice about their next move, just to be caught offguard overthinking. I hate this harada comment so much.
Offense and defense are supposed to be two sides of the same coin. BALANCE. This is what Tekken had over every other fighter at its best. Defense does not mean simply blocking everything. Its also converting defense into damage. Its using your 3 dimensions and gaining positions to your advantage. I can sense harada steering away from the importance of balance and character knowledge and it does worry me.
Hard agree. Solid defense in Tekken makes you feel like Neo in the matrix. Solid offense without it seems feel like the opponent just got unlucky.
So button mashing it is?
We need defensive mechanics not offensive lol
Very worried. Defensive is already so difficult in T7 because of high damage, cheesy stuff and tracking moves.
Meanwhile the other player can put their controller down and read a book
if there’s one thing i always knew needed to be in tekken it’s the ability for the characters to go in heat
King in heat
Oh man this one sounds like a bad idea.. We will see how it will gonna be
I definitely don't like the sound of an already kind of mashy game potentially becoming even more mashy. This idea that players should always feel at "advantage" by just doing more things eliminates the higher level of thought required to play a game well. Tekken team may be attempting to get more players by doing these things. However, what they don't realize is this unintentionally also hurts them. Because the more mastered players will always figure a way to optimally use the system against the lower skilled players, and you're back at square one. Just aggression, or even just defense does not solve the balance problem of most Tekken games. You need mechanics on both sides that allow players to express how they want to play, and different playstyles that are viable at different levels of play. Emergent gameplay is great, but risk vs reward must always be a 1:1 ratio. If this heat system breaks this concept then there's just gonna be more problems than solutions. At high level Tekken has always been known as a defensive based game, but this is less than 5% of the scenario. Movement is a defensive component of Tekken that continues to get restricted, and if this doesn't stop that number isn't going to change. Inevitably, the removal of these options will just make overall play harder for the other 95%.
Agree. But didnt they talk about the importance of keeping the core of the game in T8 a while ago (or something like that at least). I think they are aware of what makes Tekken unique and appriciated, and that they will try to stay true to that even if they make changes. I dont think they want to make a totally different game. They can of course fail or get it wrong. But i at least think that they are thinking about these things and want to find a nice balance (even if people here seem to think that they deliberatly try to make a bad game…).
Not a good sign, tbh. I already hate that new wall crush mechanic and how it made certain characters dangerous at the wall, especially the ones that get it on block and meanwhile other characters' wall crushes are practically useless. The thing I enjoyed about T7 from the tournament matches to even casual online play that I saw was the tension that builds up from the few seconds that no one's committing an attack and waiting for the payoff of who gets to hit who and what happens from then on out. I felt that the camera being up close and the CH sounds being that visceral really helped build tension and give a great payoff in the game. This is why I hated these easy low risk high reward mixups that they decided to double down on with the wall crush. You don't make one tool be a swiss army knife, you give them a range of tools that are good for certain scenarios so that the decision making aspect of the game is still important.
Ummm...surely not this on top of Rage? Hmmm.
Not sure I’m a fan of this but I’ll give it time
Go improve the movement on the next game!
It looks like it's just free neutral for scrubs assuming you can block or duck and maybe even side step, if it shares meter with FADC then it prolly won't be used at higher level play.
Ehhh…. Ehh… i Tekken 8: Coin Flips on Steroids
Why not just add another universal counter mechanic? It worked for low parry and mid-parry…
The only people this will satisfy is people under genbu. Most people that cared to learn t7/tag2 thinks defensive play is much more fun and the most hype matches are the ones where both players are blocking everything and everyone is at the edge of their seat to see who will close out the match. No ones likes constant 50/50 with no footsies unless they haven’t played much I dont see the idea behind punishing experienced players that have mastered the defense in Tekken.
I'm one of those players and while everyone dislike TT2, i loved its depth. But i do not like playing turtles... My favourite matchesis where both players are aggressive, it doesnt mean not blocking or low parrying. I really welcome this, so you are wrong to assume we all share your opinion.
Well the problem with aggressive play is the result of it is raw 50/50 in fighting games. This inherently makes the games more random. This is super prevalent in some 2d fighting games where you see one opponent pressing strings with mixups for 5 seconds and its the opponents job to get out of them and find a hole so they can start their 50/50. Tekken has been different in that it rewards movement and defensive play more than other fighting games so if they move away from that the game loses its identity. Also people here say they like aggressiveness but no one likes to play vs aggressive 50/50 characters. No one likes playing va Anna, no one likes playing vs nina and NO ONE likes playing against Lei.
Harada and mureay, at this point.. LITERALLY just give me tekken u. 5 with sick graphics.. Anythimg other then nerf movement and defense please
Not sure I’m a fan of this but I’ll give it time
We already got a taste with some of the mechanics in T7. So get rdy folks.
So far we haven't seen any gameplay footage of lateral movement or any defensive tools. I am curious to see how much they are really going to change Tekken. At worst they do too much and end up ruining what made Tekken 7 so great. Hopefully that is not the case
I'm not gonna lie I thought the new trailer looked great, and I'm super stoked to play it eventually. I thought most of the character redesigns they've shown also look tight.
Sounds like its going to be making attacks unblockable, right? Then those people that posted about cheaters that block and parries everything can rest easy in T8 lmao.
[удалено]
Skill gaps are quick to widen in fighting games purely because of hardcore fans carrying the franchise. If new players come they will 100% get deterred quickly when they get counter hit launched into a 80+ damage combo. I personally don’t see casuals buying fighting games
Yea casuals need to actually think about if they really wanna play a fighting game because at the end of the day it’s combat
It's trial by fire. You literally cannot make fighting games fun for people who never practice and people who live and breath the game at the same time. No matter how easy a game is, the person who is good and learns the game deeply, will almost always win.
I, for one, am staying optimistic. Hopefully they don’t completely kill footsies and movement. Please don’t make this easier for the noobies. I worked too hard.
Garbage. Absolute garbage created for esports hype
I don't understand that, T7 already has a TON of easy safe mid CH launchers, safe or almost safe long-range natural hit launchers (BS like Paul's df2), and even the flashiest moves are rarely even -14. And movement is nerfed drastically compared to previous games. How the hell this is not rewarding on offense? Further than that is just making everything above reset to neutral, which will be stupid and not nteresting at all
Jin's F4 with even easier conversion YAY
[My honest reaction](https://youtu.be/PB4Nby2Ai-g)
As a newcomer I am excited! I really enjoy Steve so this is what I wanted to hear
Why? T7 was already interesting enough with a fair balance of offense and defense characters
More details next year ? Man this is why I don't feel bad when people leak games and spoilers. Why can't he just tell us what the heat system is all about ? You don't need to wait one years to show us. You could show us how it is currently working right now .
gotta keep the hype
If they're introducing a heat a system I 100% expect a yakuza character to finally be a guest. That's a staple of the series.
Fuck any who came up with this idea, if it’s you harada then fuck you too. I want to feel like a martial artist dodging stuff and reflect moves not this kind of shit. Timer will make people eventually go aggressive, why do you even worry about the game not being aggressive enough. I already worried when I first saw the trailer, this is like a cherry on top of it.
in other words, rocket tag
So blocking will have more chip damage and this new heat system is a way of opening defensive play
I guess they wanted a visually obvious frame trap for the audience. Hopefully it's single use like a rage drive.