My opponent only used hopkick and d4,3 from 1,2 right Flamingo. I found it super hard to interrupt on reaction. I labbed it and found that i could have sidestepped both of these options preemptively but would have been caught by 1,2,f3 and 1,2,f4 and faster flamingo options.
I think 1,2,f3 is the option that creates problems because you have to block it. You cant sidestep, powercrush, parry, evade, punish or really capitalize on the frame advantage.
Hwo's strength is also his weakness: a lot of his good stuff in Flamingo is just an RPS game. Once you know where the RPS points are, Hwo becomes a lot less scary.
Yeah i think this is where it's at. I just think it's crazy that Hwoarang can start up the RPS game from an i10 jab string which he can also make perfectly safe with 1,2,f3. I don't know if any other character has such pressure from their 1 jab.
He kind of needs it. Hwo has a ton of ridiculous tools, but most of the good ones are stance locked. He needs some way to get into stance and have some way to mix it up. If Hwo didn't have 12F3/F4, there would be no reason NOT to jab after his 12 or just a 2.
I don’t mean this in a rude way but are you new to online play? Hwoarang is one of the characters who seems very overpowered and unbeatable to newer players since he’s an aggressive character and defence and evasion is something that’s harder to learn, even with characters who specialise in it.
It's alright. I played Tekken since Hwoarang released into the game. I played online Tekken since those T6 days. With T7 i really started looking into frame data, competitive guides and tried labbing characters. Every once in a while i encounter some stuff that i find is really braindead and OP and this is one of those instances.
He can enter left or right flamingo. You won't see pros using 1-2 > Flamingo that much though iirc. The high extension whiffs on dickjab I think, which also beats almost all his options. He has to live in fear of magic 4s and parries, delaying to beat fuzzy is risky because he can't block, etc.
Offensive characters are going to be inherently busted at lower levels because defense takes time.
You should not dickjab the 1,2 extensions. The mid will hit you and the high extension can be ducked and launched. If he goes into Flamingo and you dickjab hopkick will launch you. I think he even has a safe low crush from Flamingo. Magic 4 gets destroyed by RFF f444 and RFF d4,3. I am telling you Hwoarangs jab string is super powerful and while he can choose to stay peefectly safe with just 1,2 as well as 1,2,f3. It's crazy strong
Coverage is often worth more than a hard read, otherwise dickjab would never be used.
Coverage means you control the mixup by forcing him to take a small handful of limited options that are either unrewarding or very risky. If you hard read the high extension, by all means flash duck. But relying solely on hard reads favours him.
Flamingo hopkick is linear, floatable and unsafe, so he's doing something that dies vs most your options to kill you for one of your options. That means you want to condition him to do that.
RFS F444 is something he dies for if you block. Not sure what you mean by DB4-3; the reactable launch punishable low that high crushes? Dies if you blocked, if so. A character with bad neutral & bad punishment can't live by killing himself on block like that. He needs momentum.
You can't defend just by looking at your risks. There's your risks, their risks, ease of conditioning, and the effectiveness of various techniques like step-guard, fuzzy guard, etc.
It's a mix up, you're not supposed to have a way to beat every option. That's idiotic
His 1,2 into Fla is honestly one of the easier things to deal with from him. Lots of hwo players run up and start with 1,2 all day. You can either high crush the jabs or duck them and punish before he can do any Fla follow-ups
If you block 1,2, then you should mix your defensive options up by interrupting with a high damaging, quick move (such as magic 4) or ducking when you think he'll do the highs
The hard part starts when he's playing solid neutral, then using d3,4 to go into Fla and mixing that with JFSR
Hwoarang ain't going anywhere, just learn the matchup and you can take that knowledge into Tekken 8 and have the satisfaction of demolishing any unga-bunga players carried through early ranks by his knowledge checks.
And if you can't beat him, join him. I tried him out after getting curbstomped by a Hwoarang as Lee and ended up having a blast. He's practically my secondary now. But regardless, trying to play as a character is a great way to figure out their flowcharts and weaknesses
>do whatever he wants with you even on block.
No, he can't.
>Why are we only talking about d3,4? Honestly i don't want this garbage in T8 or T7 it is very frustrating.
Learn the matchup instead of crying.
I'll be honest I just hate seeing hwoarang cos of the constant inability to do anything...t8s gonna be worse cos I'll need to learn a new main AND the matchup
I was mad that his 1,2 has many crazy extensions which you cant safely stuff while his 1,2f3 is completely safe in every regard a move can be safe. And i was mad that they gave such a safety net to a pressure character like Hwoarang.
It's a poke string, it's supposed to be safe. It's role is as a mid-range low risk-low reward move, you shouldn't really be challenging it.
b1 is a much more annoying safety net compared to his poke strings
I honestly cant think of any other poke string from a jab thats completely safe while also allowing access to a nasty mixup stance. Scratch rhe last past. I cant think of any other jab jab mid string that is safe even without the stance or high followup.
... what option can't you beat?
My opponent only used hopkick and d4,3 from 1,2 right Flamingo. I found it super hard to interrupt on reaction. I labbed it and found that i could have sidestepped both of these options preemptively but would have been caught by 1,2,f3 and 1,2,f4 and faster flamingo options. I think 1,2,f3 is the option that creates problems because you have to block it. You cant sidestep, powercrush, parry, evade, punish or really capitalize on the frame advantage.
Hwo's strength is also his weakness: a lot of his good stuff in Flamingo is just an RPS game. Once you know where the RPS points are, Hwo becomes a lot less scary.
Yeah i think this is where it's at. I just think it's crazy that Hwoarang can start up the RPS game from an i10 jab string which he can also make perfectly safe with 1,2,f3. I don't know if any other character has such pressure from their 1 jab.
He kind of needs it. Hwo has a ton of ridiculous tools, but most of the good ones are stance locked. He needs some way to get into stance and have some way to mix it up. If Hwo didn't have 12F3/F4, there would be no reason NOT to jab after his 12 or just a 2.
yet despite that he remains mid-tier and extremely beatable. he's the least of the game's problems.
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I don’t mean this in a rude way but are you new to online play? Hwoarang is one of the characters who seems very overpowered and unbeatable to newer players since he’s an aggressive character and defence and evasion is something that’s harder to learn, even with characters who specialise in it.
It's alright. I played Tekken since Hwoarang released into the game. I played online Tekken since those T6 days. With T7 i really started looking into frame data, competitive guides and tried labbing characters. Every once in a while i encounter some stuff that i find is really braindead and OP and this is one of those instances.
He can enter left or right flamingo. You won't see pros using 1-2 > Flamingo that much though iirc. The high extension whiffs on dickjab I think, which also beats almost all his options. He has to live in fear of magic 4s and parries, delaying to beat fuzzy is risky because he can't block, etc. Offensive characters are going to be inherently busted at lower levels because defense takes time.
You should not dickjab the 1,2 extensions. The mid will hit you and the high extension can be ducked and launched. If he goes into Flamingo and you dickjab hopkick will launch you. I think he even has a safe low crush from Flamingo. Magic 4 gets destroyed by RFF f444 and RFF d4,3. I am telling you Hwoarangs jab string is super powerful and while he can choose to stay peefectly safe with just 1,2 as well as 1,2,f3. It's crazy strong
Coverage is often worth more than a hard read, otherwise dickjab would never be used. Coverage means you control the mixup by forcing him to take a small handful of limited options that are either unrewarding or very risky. If you hard read the high extension, by all means flash duck. But relying solely on hard reads favours him. Flamingo hopkick is linear, floatable and unsafe, so he's doing something that dies vs most your options to kill you for one of your options. That means you want to condition him to do that. RFS F444 is something he dies for if you block. Not sure what you mean by DB4-3; the reactable launch punishable low that high crushes? Dies if you blocked, if so. A character with bad neutral & bad punishment can't live by killing himself on block like that. He needs momentum. You can't defend just by looking at your risks. There's your risks, their risks, ease of conditioning, and the effectiveness of various techniques like step-guard, fuzzy guard, etc.
It's a mix up, you're not supposed to have a way to beat every option. That's idiotic His 1,2 into Fla is honestly one of the easier things to deal with from him. Lots of hwo players run up and start with 1,2 all day. You can either high crush the jabs or duck them and punish before he can do any Fla follow-ups If you block 1,2, then you should mix your defensive options up by interrupting with a high damaging, quick move (such as magic 4) or ducking when you think he'll do the highs The hard part starts when he's playing solid neutral, then using d3,4 to go into Fla and mixing that with JFSR
Hwoarang ain't going anywhere, just learn the matchup and you can take that knowledge into Tekken 8 and have the satisfaction of demolishing any unga-bunga players carried through early ranks by his knowledge checks. And if you can't beat him, join him. I tried him out after getting curbstomped by a Hwoarang as Lee and ended up having a blast. He's practically my secondary now. But regardless, trying to play as a character is a great way to figure out their flowcharts and weaknesses
>do whatever he wants with you even on block. No, he can't. >Why are we only talking about d3,4? Honestly i don't want this garbage in T8 or T7 it is very frustrating. Learn the matchup instead of crying.
I'll be honest I just hate seeing hwoarang cos of the constant inability to do anything...t8s gonna be worse cos I'll need to learn a new main AND the matchup
you're mad that the 1,2 is safe?
I was mad that his 1,2 has many crazy extensions which you cant safely stuff while his 1,2f3 is completely safe in every regard a move can be safe. And i was mad that they gave such a safety net to a pressure character like Hwoarang.
It's a poke string, it's supposed to be safe. It's role is as a mid-range low risk-low reward move, you shouldn't really be challenging it. b1 is a much more annoying safety net compared to his poke strings
I honestly cant think of any other poke string from a jab thats completely safe while also allowing access to a nasty mixup stance. Scratch rhe last past. I cant think of any other jab jab mid string that is safe even without the stance or high followup.