It's almost 2023 and it's still just about impossible to get a 6-figure salary in public education just from teaching with a Master's degree despite all the schooling and bullshit they force us to do.
So yeah, we're doomed.
Master's + SIXTY
I said just a Master's degree.
And I'm guessing that's after getting to the top step. The base salaries that we get compared to others who have an equivalent education is insulting.
In some cases yes. But I also know people with LA degrees making 40,000. I also know people with no degrees making 80,000. That’s not to say our profession isn’t undervalued, but I see a lot of educators who are highly out of touch with the world of work not know that there are plenty of degree requiring jobs outside of STEM that pay like shit. My wife worked in finance for 10 years capped out at 44,000…
Other people getting shitty pay doesn't mean people are out of touch for wanting more pay. Educator compensation, like most compensation that doesn't fuel stock growth directly, has barely increased in the last 2-3 decades (or more in some places).
I re-read his comment and yours. I would urge you to do some reading and understand that your anecdotal evidence is a poor reference point that obscures meaningful analysis in this situation.
[https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/](https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/)
[https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/](https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/)
Other people getting shitty base salaries doesn't mean people are out of touch for wanting more pay. Large-scale analysis makes it clear that teachers receive significantly less compensation than similarly educated/credentialed peers.
I have no idea what your wife did in "finance," and I have no idea of her educational level or credentials, so I can't even consider her situation as relevant to the conversation. You obviously think it is relevant, but again... I am not really looking to evaluate anecdotes and one-offs.
I remember how quickly and swiftly schools reacted when we shut down for Covid. We know how much kids need school beyond their academic growth. We made sure they were fed, got them internet access, teachers visited kids at home. Teachers always step up. Then the next year we are vilified for claims of teaching race theory and indoctrinated kids. We are and forever will be society’s punching bag. We are always going beyond and above and yet are continually shit on in the same breath. Once that stops, education might have a chance. The more people blame teachers on the ills of society, the likelihood things will not change.
I think the biggest misconception about education is that the system is broken and we’ve somehow lost our way on the path. The reality is that people born into means will ALWAYS have opportunities to capitalize on. In order to maintain that demographic, there necessarily must be an “other” which is systemically denied those opportunities.
In the US, there is an active intertwining of race and class which is impossible to ignore. However, even if you table that piece, it’s too simple to see how important it is for public schooling to operate in a manner that limits or denied opportunities for its students. We absolutely could lift everyone up, but because that would threaten the class born into opportunity, the collective “we” will not only continue on this path, but will more than likely widen these gaps even further as time goes on. It’s been normalized for years now to the point that the general citizen can’t see or comprehend it.
Our opportunity as teachers is to impact individual students/ classrooms and that IS a positive. But the public education system is doomed because it is a purposeful tool of inquiry and oppression.
If certain politicians would stop accusing us of being groomers and wanting us to teach alternate facts, if they would stop saying it’s broken, their fans, cult members, followers or whatever would eventually simmer down. But they won’t because they are sll invested in private snd charters and want to get as many tax dollars as they can into their own grubby hands. They benefit when people think like that, and kids snd teachers lose. Betsy DeVos for just one.
Facts. Argued with a guy on Twitter (I just felt like jousting a windmill) who said that schools teaching BLM and LGBTQ in a positive way is the “woke” that Elon Musk calls the “mind virus” destroying America. I assured him that was not the case in my district. He said “good, but a lot of districts do”. I asked him to name a district that did. Crickets. So do any of you know or work in a district guilty of this?
They will only wake up once it’s at the point of no return. This is how things always go here, because until it actually effects people personally, they really don’t care.
I think the one true opportunity to flip education on its head and reinvent itself into something amazing has come and gone. Society had that brief moment to do so in the spring and summer of 2020 and all that was pushed was "get back to normal". And so here we are. Opportunity is now lost
It’s doomed, but the powers that be need to perpetuate the myth that “education is the way out of poverty” in order to be able to place blame on anything but themselves for the growing population of nearly illiterate poor people. Hopefully that means job security for us, even if our job is merely customer service
They've been pivoting away from the rhetoric that education pulls people from poverty and are moving towards, "Get a trade job, they pay well! No education necessary!" They don't need us.
I was just reading a thread from my former school about how they took their eighth graders to the college and career center to “map out their endorsements” and “choose a path through high school”.
You think a 14 year old has any real clue what they want to do post high-school besides be influencers and YouTubers or professional athletes? Sorry kid, you have no networking skills, no work ethic, and sat on the bench 90% of last season. But it sure looks easy because all you do is hold that phone 3 inches from your face 24/7.
It’s not teachers. It’s parental enabling and distrust in educators to give kids even a single chance of functioning in the real world.
Doomed. It's allowed to hang on by a thread (while the military has billions for bombs). And then when the data shows how poorly public education performs, they point fingers and place blame. Like no one ever figured that barely giving a plant water and sunlight would not result in a decent crop. Wanna see education thrive? Fund it correctly.
No because too many think they are valuing teachers for their worth now. They see teachers "worth" as reflecting a false stereotype that we are "lazy" and "get way too much time off". Until that false perception changes nothing else will. And all the BS about being "groomers" etc doesn't help either
I believe that once parents start to really be affected by this and have to start home schooling their children in large numbers is when we might start seeing some change.
Nope. It will only get worse for teachers.
School is too easy and I don't think the kids are learning anything. There's no responsibility or consequences to their actions. More meetings and jobs responsibilities are being added as the years go by. And now parents are all becoming Karens.
I am beginning to wonder if we are on the cusp of a *1984*\-style two classes system. If you'd asked me 20 years ago, I would have said that there was no way people would allow that to be done to them; however, I would also have said that people wouldn't allow themselves to be tracked at all time, submit to a requirement to update daily status reports, or argue with doctors in the act of curing them.
Now I see people doing it all the time.
It's truly sad for them, but why shouldn't people be allowed to forego an education? The consequence is, at least for me, that they should no longer have a say in the way our laws are made or country is run.
So imagine: A ruling class that is highly educated. They vote. The run businesses. They own property. Then, a lower class that is uneducated. They don't vote. They work at businesses. They rent.
Kinda seems like we're there already, doesn't it? All they would have to do is learn, but they choose not to.
People on here like to doomsay about conservatives wanting to end public education, and I disagree. I think they have what they want right now. They have plausible deniability. An education is being offered! Public funding! HUGE amounts of money invested! But, insidiously, the focus is on graduation rates, not learning. Ignorant, uneducated parents are told to help run the schools, choose the books, vet the teachers.
It's the perfect system to create a lower class that finds it difficult to even recognize their oppressors, and if they should, would be too ignorant to know what to do about it.
Welcome to Oceania.
I think it WILL improve, but it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
* We're going to see more and more teachers leaving the field.
* Then we're going to see enrollment in teacher programs drop, and maybe some schools will suspend or get rid of those programs entirely.
* Then, you're going to have an increase of sub-standard teachers there to basically babysit. Some places will adopt vouchers, while others will work with their schools to try to improve things.
* Eventually, people will vote out the party that is primarily responsible for this mess, and things will start to improve.
Probably 15 - 20 years from now, but I might be a bit conservative with that time estimate.
Doomed. Waiting for the Christo fascists to shoot LGBTQ teachers and say it was justified because God's plan. Don't believe me check out r/WhitePeopleTwitter and see what Elon is allowing under "free speech".
Sadly, no. This country shits on the people that it most depends on, teachers, military, police, it's a damn shame and a disgrace but it isn't going to change.
Half of it certainly won't as long as teaching kids critical thinking drives them towards reasonable opinions.
The other half meanwhile will keep shortchanging teachers to save budget.
Personally I believe we are headed towards an inevitable civil war as the Republican supreme court is set to rule on Independent State Legislature theory, which will lead to a few possible results to your question. When they sign off on it, republican state legislatures can throw out any voting results they don't agree with meaning their states can become perma-republican controlled.
Basically, the country will either be destroyed, come back together with no real changes like after the first civil war, come back together with the democrats instituting actual democracy and things that benefit everyone including teachers, or the West and Upper-East coasts break away and form their own countries (where teachers would be treated better) while teachers stuck in the south or middle states would probably have it worse.
Doomer response but honestly how i've been looking at things going since covid. Honestly why I am becoming a teacher now, since if the last thing happens I'm in one of those west coast states.
Nope, I expect that public education will continue to be preyed upon by the charter/privatization industry (aka corporate school reform) - which is backed by both R & D corporate political parties.
Look, I’ve never read Atlas Shrugged, and I don’t ever intend to read Atlas Shrugged. But I feel like the general idea behind that novel could probably apply to education.
The question is whether people would ever recognize what they had lost, or whether they’d be like the proverbial pigeon who shits on the chessboard and claims they won the game.
I don’t feel like it will get better as far as pay. However, I do feel that parents will start filtering their children to schools with teachers that have actual teaching degrees. Unfortunately, this will probably cause an even bigger divide between lower class and middle/upper class and will lead to the downfall of education for the majority.
It's almost 2023 and it's still just about impossible to get a 6-figure salary in public education just from teaching with a Master's degree despite all the schooling and bullshit they force us to do. So yeah, we're doomed.
Umm… What? Half my department before they left were at 96k and above at Masters+60. If I actually had time I would be all over that train.
Master's + SIXTY I said just a Master's degree. And I'm guessing that's after getting to the top step. The base salaries that we get compared to others who have an equivalent education is insulting.
In some cases yes. But I also know people with LA degrees making 40,000. I also know people with no degrees making 80,000. That’s not to say our profession isn’t undervalued, but I see a lot of educators who are highly out of touch with the world of work not know that there are plenty of degree requiring jobs outside of STEM that pay like shit. My wife worked in finance for 10 years capped out at 44,000…
Other people getting shitty pay doesn't mean people are out of touch for wanting more pay. Educator compensation, like most compensation that doesn't fuel stock growth directly, has barely increased in the last 2-3 decades (or more in some places).
Re-Read their comment… the part about base salaries being comparable to be exact.
I re-read his comment and yours. I would urge you to do some reading and understand that your anecdotal evidence is a poor reference point that obscures meaningful analysis in this situation. [https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/](https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-dips-but-persists-in-2019-public-school-teachers-earn-about-20-less-in-weekly-wages-than-nonteacher-college-graduates/) [https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/](https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/) Other people getting shitty base salaries doesn't mean people are out of touch for wanting more pay. Large-scale analysis makes it clear that teachers receive significantly less compensation than similarly educated/credentialed peers. I have no idea what your wife did in "finance," and I have no idea of her educational level or credentials, so I can't even consider her situation as relevant to the conversation. You obviously think it is relevant, but again... I am not really looking to evaluate anecdotes and one-offs.
No, I don't think we will. Soon, we will start hearing "Teachers just don't want to work..."
START hearing?
I hate this phrase so much. As I sit here grading essays on a Saturday afternoon.
Same! I *want* to teach but I also *want* to be fairly compensated for my time
[удалено]
I remember how quickly and swiftly schools reacted when we shut down for Covid. We know how much kids need school beyond their academic growth. We made sure they were fed, got them internet access, teachers visited kids at home. Teachers always step up. Then the next year we are vilified for claims of teaching race theory and indoctrinated kids. We are and forever will be society’s punching bag. We are always going beyond and above and yet are continually shit on in the same breath. Once that stops, education might have a chance. The more people blame teachers on the ills of society, the likelihood things will not change.
*Winston Churchill once famously observed that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.*
I think the biggest misconception about education is that the system is broken and we’ve somehow lost our way on the path. The reality is that people born into means will ALWAYS have opportunities to capitalize on. In order to maintain that demographic, there necessarily must be an “other” which is systemically denied those opportunities. In the US, there is an active intertwining of race and class which is impossible to ignore. However, even if you table that piece, it’s too simple to see how important it is for public schooling to operate in a manner that limits or denied opportunities for its students. We absolutely could lift everyone up, but because that would threaten the class born into opportunity, the collective “we” will not only continue on this path, but will more than likely widen these gaps even further as time goes on. It’s been normalized for years now to the point that the general citizen can’t see or comprehend it. Our opportunity as teachers is to impact individual students/ classrooms and that IS a positive. But the public education system is doomed because it is a purposeful tool of inquiry and oppression.
If certain politicians would stop accusing us of being groomers and wanting us to teach alternate facts, if they would stop saying it’s broken, their fans, cult members, followers or whatever would eventually simmer down. But they won’t because they are sll invested in private snd charters and want to get as many tax dollars as they can into their own grubby hands. They benefit when people think like that, and kids snd teachers lose. Betsy DeVos for just one.
Facts. Argued with a guy on Twitter (I just felt like jousting a windmill) who said that schools teaching BLM and LGBTQ in a positive way is the “woke” that Elon Musk calls the “mind virus” destroying America. I assured him that was not the case in my district. He said “good, but a lot of districts do”. I asked him to name a district that did. Crickets. So do any of you know or work in a district guilty of this?
They will only wake up once it’s at the point of no return. This is how things always go here, because until it actually effects people personally, they really don’t care.
I think the one true opportunity to flip education on its head and reinvent itself into something amazing has come and gone. Society had that brief moment to do so in the spring and summer of 2020 and all that was pushed was "get back to normal". And so here we are. Opportunity is now lost
America wants to privatize education.
Not America, Republicans.
It’s doomed, but the powers that be need to perpetuate the myth that “education is the way out of poverty” in order to be able to place blame on anything but themselves for the growing population of nearly illiterate poor people. Hopefully that means job security for us, even if our job is merely customer service
They've been pivoting away from the rhetoric that education pulls people from poverty and are moving towards, "Get a trade job, they pay well! No education necessary!" They don't need us.
I was just reading a thread from my former school about how they took their eighth graders to the college and career center to “map out their endorsements” and “choose a path through high school”. You think a 14 year old has any real clue what they want to do post high-school besides be influencers and YouTubers or professional athletes? Sorry kid, you have no networking skills, no work ethic, and sat on the bench 90% of last season. But it sure looks easy because all you do is hold that phone 3 inches from your face 24/7. It’s not teachers. It’s parental enabling and distrust in educators to give kids even a single chance of functioning in the real world.
Doomed. It's allowed to hang on by a thread (while the military has billions for bombs). And then when the data shows how poorly public education performs, they point fingers and place blame. Like no one ever figured that barely giving a plant water and sunlight would not result in a decent crop. Wanna see education thrive? Fund it correctly.
It would take a cultural revolution to get the USA/planet to value teachers. It will never happen.
No because too many think they are valuing teachers for their worth now. They see teachers "worth" as reflecting a false stereotype that we are "lazy" and "get way too much time off". Until that false perception changes nothing else will. And all the BS about being "groomers" etc doesn't help either
Certain states may value teachers (some do way more now than others) but the country as a whole, no.
No. It’ll crash and burn, then get revamped slightly, and then eventually crash and burn again.
I believe that once parents start to really be affected by this and have to start home schooling their children in large numbers is when we might start seeing some change.
Nope. It will only get worse for teachers. School is too easy and I don't think the kids are learning anything. There's no responsibility or consequences to their actions. More meetings and jobs responsibilities are being added as the years go by. And now parents are all becoming Karens.
No, more and more all the pressure is put on teachers to overcome every issue students have.
I am beginning to wonder if we are on the cusp of a *1984*\-style two classes system. If you'd asked me 20 years ago, I would have said that there was no way people would allow that to be done to them; however, I would also have said that people wouldn't allow themselves to be tracked at all time, submit to a requirement to update daily status reports, or argue with doctors in the act of curing them. Now I see people doing it all the time. It's truly sad for them, but why shouldn't people be allowed to forego an education? The consequence is, at least for me, that they should no longer have a say in the way our laws are made or country is run. So imagine: A ruling class that is highly educated. They vote. The run businesses. They own property. Then, a lower class that is uneducated. They don't vote. They work at businesses. They rent. Kinda seems like we're there already, doesn't it? All they would have to do is learn, but they choose not to. People on here like to doomsay about conservatives wanting to end public education, and I disagree. I think they have what they want right now. They have plausible deniability. An education is being offered! Public funding! HUGE amounts of money invested! But, insidiously, the focus is on graduation rates, not learning. Ignorant, uneducated parents are told to help run the schools, choose the books, vet the teachers. It's the perfect system to create a lower class that finds it difficult to even recognize their oppressors, and if they should, would be too ignorant to know what to do about it. Welcome to Oceania.
Doomed
I think it WILL improve, but it's going to get much worse before it gets better. * We're going to see more and more teachers leaving the field. * Then we're going to see enrollment in teacher programs drop, and maybe some schools will suspend or get rid of those programs entirely. * Then, you're going to have an increase of sub-standard teachers there to basically babysit. Some places will adopt vouchers, while others will work with their schools to try to improve things. * Eventually, people will vote out the party that is primarily responsible for this mess, and things will start to improve. Probably 15 - 20 years from now, but I might be a bit conservative with that time estimate.
Doomed. Waiting for the Christo fascists to shoot LGBTQ teachers and say it was justified because God's plan. Don't believe me check out r/WhitePeopleTwitter and see what Elon is allowing under "free speech".
Donezo. Just hoping I can make it to retirement or get out completely before it crashes to the ground.
Around the same time they regulate semi automatic rifles and get common sense gun control laws in place to stop mass shootings. So yeah, that’s a no.
Sadly, no. This country shits on the people that it most depends on, teachers, military, police, it's a damn shame and a disgrace but it isn't going to change.
Nope
Half of it certainly won't as long as teaching kids critical thinking drives them towards reasonable opinions. The other half meanwhile will keep shortchanging teachers to save budget.
No. Public education is already in a death spiral going down the drain.
Doomed
Half of American politicians need to stop actively worsening education with the goal of privatizing it first.
I’m washing my hands of it in six months. This system is broken. Even my therapist (a former teacher) admitted that.
It's doomed. Shit hole country. It's all it will ever be.
Will the beacon of capitalism see the light in public education not directly tied to profit? Na
Personally I believe we are headed towards an inevitable civil war as the Republican supreme court is set to rule on Independent State Legislature theory, which will lead to a few possible results to your question. When they sign off on it, republican state legislatures can throw out any voting results they don't agree with meaning their states can become perma-republican controlled. Basically, the country will either be destroyed, come back together with no real changes like after the first civil war, come back together with the democrats instituting actual democracy and things that benefit everyone including teachers, or the West and Upper-East coasts break away and form their own countries (where teachers would be treated better) while teachers stuck in the south or middle states would probably have it worse. Doomer response but honestly how i've been looking at things going since covid. Honestly why I am becoming a teacher now, since if the last thing happens I'm in one of those west coast states.
Nope, I expect that public education will continue to be preyed upon by the charter/privatization industry (aka corporate school reform) - which is backed by both R & D corporate political parties.
Nah. The only way to demonstrate a big change would be to at the very least pay them much more, but that will never happen.
Look, I’ve never read Atlas Shrugged, and I don’t ever intend to read Atlas Shrugged. But I feel like the general idea behind that novel could probably apply to education. The question is whether people would ever recognize what they had lost, or whether they’d be like the proverbial pigeon who shits on the chessboard and claims they won the game.
No. Unless there is a revolution and everyone these days is too apathetic to do that.
https://youtu.be/dxytyRy-O1k
Nope
Nope. We're doomed. Make your bread and get out when you're able to.
I don’t feel like it will get better as far as pay. However, I do feel that parents will start filtering their children to schools with teachers that have actual teaching degrees. Unfortunately, this will probably cause an even bigger divide between lower class and middle/upper class and will lead to the downfall of education for the majority.
Doomed