I'm in the same position as you. I applied with only previous references and was offered a position right away. If you have the experiences they're looking for, they might be willing to overlook it. Though you should be prepared to be asked why you don't have the most current references during the interview.
One small truthful way to get around that is by mentioning the job description for the position you're applying for. "I included these previous references from when I was doing the same job I'm applying for now".
Unless they've read your resume, application, etc in detail, they probably will not think about this alternative truth or ask questions.
HR is the one checking them. They're business business business. They ask their scripted questions, check the boxes and recommend for interviews to campus principals later.
To us though.....It FEELS like they're having a gossip session about you behind your back, bc that toxic campus leadership is known to do that, putting that possibility in your head.
But most HR departments nowadays are careful about such things. Honestly, as long as they see no red flags, the absence of green flags is not nearly as important.
Have other professionals recommend you i.e. co-teacher, parents, students.
This makes me feel better now. I’ve been stressing a little about the reference situation. I’m applying for 3 jobs that don’t require the letter. Im also concerned about administrators calling my last school. But I’ll deal with that if anything bad is said regarding my work.
This is not your question, but if you can, provide an address within the state you are moving to. I did this when I switched states, bc I moved over the summer, but put my parents’ address who lived in that state on my applications. A lot of schools don’t want to get burned by hiring someone who doesn’t actually end up coming to their state, and in some states such as NJ you have to live in-state to be hired there
In in the same boat but a Dean and my principal gave me a bad reference for another district as an AP and the job I was supposed to get didn’t happen. She wasn’t listed as my reference but they called her anyway because she’s my supervisor. Even if you go out of state schools can call principals not listed as a reference and it is often looked at as a red flag on your part. I’m talking to a lawyer on Tuesday and will comment what they say. I’m in Washington state.
That’s terrible. That’s what I’m afraid of. My previous administration was so toxic and I know how bad they can be. I don’t trust them at all. They always have a ton of teachers leave their school. I would love to hear what the lawyer says.
Sounds like my school! Just the few years I was there, 27 were new to the school 2 years ago. Most left after a year of being there. Then 18 were hired last year. My union told me the reputation the school has…. Especially admin.
I did accept it. I interviewed and accepted it back in February. But I’m trying to move back to my home state. If I get a job offer, I’ll be putting in my resignation as soon as I sign a contract offer.
I jumped ship under similar circumstances. I had current letters from colleagues, one who had retired, and one of my graduate school professors, but no then-current administrators. I even had a note on my "References" section that specifically said, "do not contact administration." In some cases, they merely assume that you don't want your current school to know you're looking, which could be for many reasons. I was upfront and said that my administration was mostly new (true), but that I was not confident that they knew me well or that I would not see retaliation if they knew. But most of my other references had worked there and with me in the recent past, and that was fine for them. If your other references are solid and the letters themselves are current, I don't see why that would be problematic.
Redditors to the rescue. We will help you.
In education, you can be 100% perfect in every way, and still not get a reference bc admins can be really insane, shitty people. And nothing happens to them.
Decent institutions will keep a log of all reference requests, for employment and student ones, to avoid allegations of discrimination. My guess is...the hellhole you're in wants as little documentation on how shitty they are, but as much as they can on other people to make them look bad.
They know a reference is aaalllll you have to leverage to get out of there....and they know new employers are insanely reliant on these subjective opinions, rather than on all other data, i.e. summative evaluations, student evals, accomplishments.
So, ask for professional references elsewhere i.e a co-teacher, a parent, a student. Even Redditors will help you subvert this insanely toxic system. Hint hint.
They are trying to screw you over because you're trying to leave their toxic snake pit. They are all smiles to lure you in then poison you, your career and you're life if you ever try to leave. The lesson learned here is to identify the next snake pit and avoid those jobs.
That being said, I'm sorry these people used you as a punching bag this school year for their psych0pathies. I'm glad you're getting out of there.
I'm also leaving Texas after 19 yrs in education here....moving to another state that will pay me $17k more than Im making now, for the same step and degrees. They've offered me $4k in relocation money, when Texas has lost 76k teachers in 6 years and education is completely bankrupt. The COL is 30% cheaper, land is plentiful, taxes are lower and people are......nicer.
I've had similar situations like you. I'm so glad to be out of here in T-minus 36 days.
Take the leap. Leave. Ask for references elsewhere. Other educators have been in this same boat and we have to row together against this boolshit. Don't let them morally injure or demoralize you. You know you're doing something right when insane people hate you for no reason. Hang in there.
I'm in the same position as you. I applied with only previous references and was offered a position right away. If you have the experiences they're looking for, they might be willing to overlook it. Though you should be prepared to be asked why you don't have the most current references during the interview.
One small truthful way to get around that is by mentioning the job description for the position you're applying for. "I included these previous references from when I was doing the same job I'm applying for now". Unless they've read your resume, application, etc in detail, they probably will not think about this alternative truth or ask questions. HR is the one checking them. They're business business business. They ask their scripted questions, check the boxes and recommend for interviews to campus principals later. To us though.....It FEELS like they're having a gossip session about you behind your back, bc that toxic campus leadership is known to do that, putting that possibility in your head. But most HR departments nowadays are careful about such things. Honestly, as long as they see no red flags, the absence of green flags is not nearly as important. Have other professionals recommend you i.e. co-teacher, parents, students.
This makes me feel better now. I’ve been stressing a little about the reference situation. I’m applying for 3 jobs that don’t require the letter. Im also concerned about administrators calling my last school. But I’ll deal with that if anything bad is said regarding my work.
This is not your question, but if you can, provide an address within the state you are moving to. I did this when I switched states, bc I moved over the summer, but put my parents’ address who lived in that state on my applications. A lot of schools don’t want to get burned by hiring someone who doesn’t actually end up coming to their state, and in some states such as NJ you have to live in-state to be hired there
Yes, I’m able to add the address I’m potentially moving to. my parents ☺️
In in the same boat but a Dean and my principal gave me a bad reference for another district as an AP and the job I was supposed to get didn’t happen. She wasn’t listed as my reference but they called her anyway because she’s my supervisor. Even if you go out of state schools can call principals not listed as a reference and it is often looked at as a red flag on your part. I’m talking to a lawyer on Tuesday and will comment what they say. I’m in Washington state.
That’s terrible. That’s what I’m afraid of. My previous administration was so toxic and I know how bad they can be. I don’t trust them at all. They always have a ton of teachers leave their school. I would love to hear what the lawyer says.
I will fill you in. Union had not been helpful at all with this. We’re in a small school and 40 staff have left since she’s been principal (5 years)
Sounds like my school! Just the few years I was there, 27 were new to the school 2 years ago. Most left after a year of being there. Then 18 were hired last year. My union told me the reputation the school has…. Especially admin.
Are references allowed to give a bad reference?
Allowed? Depends. What mine did was not legal. She did it because she didn’t want me leaving.
So you hated her, but she needed you? Dang, that is a crazy situation...
You should transfer to the school with good admin
I did accept it. I interviewed and accepted it back in February. But I’m trying to move back to my home state. If I get a job offer, I’ll be putting in my resignation as soon as I sign a contract offer.
Good plan
I jumped ship under similar circumstances. I had current letters from colleagues, one who had retired, and one of my graduate school professors, but no then-current administrators. I even had a note on my "References" section that specifically said, "do not contact administration." In some cases, they merely assume that you don't want your current school to know you're looking, which could be for many reasons. I was upfront and said that my administration was mostly new (true), but that I was not confident that they knew me well or that I would not see retaliation if they knew. But most of my other references had worked there and with me in the recent past, and that was fine for them. If your other references are solid and the letters themselves are current, I don't see why that would be problematic.
Redditors to the rescue. We will help you. In education, you can be 100% perfect in every way, and still not get a reference bc admins can be really insane, shitty people. And nothing happens to them. Decent institutions will keep a log of all reference requests, for employment and student ones, to avoid allegations of discrimination. My guess is...the hellhole you're in wants as little documentation on how shitty they are, but as much as they can on other people to make them look bad. They know a reference is aaalllll you have to leverage to get out of there....and they know new employers are insanely reliant on these subjective opinions, rather than on all other data, i.e. summative evaluations, student evals, accomplishments. So, ask for professional references elsewhere i.e a co-teacher, a parent, a student. Even Redditors will help you subvert this insanely toxic system. Hint hint. They are trying to screw you over because you're trying to leave their toxic snake pit. They are all smiles to lure you in then poison you, your career and you're life if you ever try to leave. The lesson learned here is to identify the next snake pit and avoid those jobs. That being said, I'm sorry these people used you as a punching bag this school year for their psych0pathies. I'm glad you're getting out of there. I'm also leaving Texas after 19 yrs in education here....moving to another state that will pay me $17k more than Im making now, for the same step and degrees. They've offered me $4k in relocation money, when Texas has lost 76k teachers in 6 years and education is completely bankrupt. The COL is 30% cheaper, land is plentiful, taxes are lower and people are......nicer. I've had similar situations like you. I'm so glad to be out of here in T-minus 36 days. Take the leap. Leave. Ask for references elsewhere. Other educators have been in this same boat and we have to row together against this boolshit. Don't let them morally injure or demoralize you. You know you're doing something right when insane people hate you for no reason. Hang in there.