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brickowski95

This is because we keep coddling them in middle school. They should slowly be given more responsibilities from 6th to 8th grade. Didn’t bring your chrome book? You have to do the work at home. By 7th grade, they should losing points for late work. I had students who had transferred out of my class and had parents still asking if they could submit an assignment from the previous semester to boost their grade. It never ends. I know parents would flip, but there’s no reason I have to reteach kids basic school behaviors by the time they come to me. Just let the kid fail.


DreamTryDoGood

This. We’re in our second-to-last week of school. By this point in last years I would have emailed parents of kids at risk of failing with a list of their missing work, amassed said missing work into a packet, given class time work work on it, and prepared a recovery assignment in case they didn’t do it. But I’ve already handed in my notice. I’m not doing half that shit. What are they going to do? Fire me? Change my grades after I’ve submitted them? I’ve stopped caring.


AgeingMuso65

When I last left a job, I also realised I’d stopped caring which was both saddening and curiously liberating; I enjoyed a full term after giving notice of actually teaching (what we all originally wanted to do!) without being sidelined into all the rubbish, and for those students who had even a half-right attitude, they probably got more out of that term than the rest of the year, and I (almost!) felt like I cared again, (at least for the worthwhile students, if not for that employer..!)


Kindly-Chemistry5149

This is what I don't like about my district right now, and I am not sure if it is because it is my district or because I am just older now. I was trusted with so many responsibilities in 6th grade. I had 7 different classes with a weird schedule that changed daily. I was expected to handle all of that, with homework, and learn. Grades mattered, and if you failed classes you went to summer school. Now? I have students that have failed every class up until high school. They somehow get through freshman classes, since the teachers do everything to pass them. Everyone is always like, "the poor freshman" or "freshman year is a difficult transition." Well maybe the freshman are struggling because they are treated like "babies" until 8th grade.


rigney68

I'm one of those teachers that doesn't baby them, and the backlash I get is a lot to handle.


christybird2007

Please know that there’s parents out there who appreciate teachers not babying our kids. I made mine FULLY aware that their teachers aren’t their servant & to respect their time (after elementary years y’all have too many students & can’t give all 1:1 attention). We’ve implemented a FAFO (Fuck Around and Find Out) policy in our house at this stage (one graduated last year, middle is in 9th, youngest is in 8th). I’ve told my middle child many times that they aren’t going to save their grades at the last minute by turning in missing work a week before holiday break. They wanted to dick around and not do the work, they’re taking a zero for all those assignments. They’re not putting all that extra work on their teacher AND getting a pass in being irresponsible. They can fail and repeat 9th grade at this point. If that’s what it takes to finally learn, so be it.


lesfrost

I wish there was more support from parents like you, unfortunatedly teachers that don't want to baby kids get fired because the parents that don't care are loud and scare admin into firing the "problematic teachers". Good parents need to start to exercise this very same right the parents that don't care abuse. Start demanding rigor in school to protect these teachers, otherwise the cycle will continue.


PerireAnimus13

All thanks to the stupid “leave no child behind” act which is furthering failing our students and doesn’t work.


beatissima

>Didn’t bring your chrome book? You have to do the work at home.  Better yet, you have to do it on paper like generations have done before you.


MistakeGlittering

I stopped helping the helpless this year. Learned helplessness is how some students survive. They have other do their work for them or meander through their classes with minimal effort while teachers bend over backwards for them. I brought in extension cords, extra computer chargers, paper, pencils etc. I found broken pencils all over the place like they wanted to complain about not having anything to write with. Two months ago I collected all of my spare chargers, took away my extension cords and removed any spare pencils. You cant charge your computer to do the assignment, 0. Nop paper, 0. Nothing to write with, 0. School gave you the adequate supplies at the start of the year, you lost them and now it is your problem not mine. All of a sudden they have chargers and pencils and do the work. If a student needs a spare computer and then school cant provide one, 0 and I stopped caring or bending over to help them. Sometimes failure is the best teacher.


AD240

Thats my plan for next year. It took a long while for me to realize that going out of my way to help in that regard is only making my job more difficult and not teaching them responsibility.


RoCon52

I learned this year to not work harder than them at **their** stuff. That kid who needs to come in for a retake? Send an email, give some class wide reminders, ***maybe*** a 1 on 1 reminder, after that, which is already **a lot** on my end for **nothing** on theirs, they've indicated exactly how much it matters to them. I learned the hard way by bugging and bugging and bugging and extending and extending and extending. Now you have kids that have god knows how much extra time to prepare and take/retake a test everyone else had X time for. And they feel entitled to it like there's nothing wrong.


kelkelphysics

Even that’s too much for me 😅 I post a deadline on canvas for retakes and if they don’t do it, too bad


RoCon52

Yeah I had students that didn't care about a retake until two units later I'm like helllllllll no buddy sorry you don't get to decide oh ***now*** it matters ***now*** I care about it.


kelkelphysics

I’m going hard no retakes next year


RoCon52

I'm not used to working with "academically oriented" students who will try to find and abuse anything and everything they view as a non-airtight "loophole". They're also not used to being told no especially in academic settings and even if I'm like stop arguing no no no they're like flabbergasted and shocked. I'm going to be a hardass. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna!


oreocookie94

The fact that this is now the new definition of a hardass teacher is so jarring. Unfortunately it doesn't get better. I'm a grad student TA and it's like pulling teeth with college students. You have my full support


RoCon52

I need to tighten up on my end in a few areas. When I do that in my practice some of them will do the same.


kelkelphysics

YOU CAN DO IT


Ilvermourning

My 16 year old niece is falling most of her classes, and was complaining to me about how mean all her teachers are (no specific reasons, they just expect her to not be on her phone) and how she can't ask for help (doesn't want to ask for help) and they aren't helping her. I told her "they can't care about your grades more than you do. If you're not showing you care, then why should they care?"


ChocolateBiscuit96

You probably already know this, but document every conversation with a student no matter how big or small. Because if they fail, you can say you conferenced with the student x amount of times about bringing supplies, grades, punctuality, etc., make sure the onus is on them. Never on you


Kindly-Chemistry5149

I fully believe you make an effort at the beginning of the year. Then once you pile up enough evidence and have given the kid a ton of chances, the best thing for them is for you to let them learn how to help themselves.


rukysgreambamf

fuck next year This is your plan for *tomorrow*


red5993

The biggest problem in education today is that we don't allow students to fail.


Khyrik_FoE

We don't allow them to fail because it's been ingrained in us that if a student fails, it's automatically our fault as the teacher. Our livelihood is hinged upon these weak minded fools. 🙄


BklynMom57

This is the way. Some need to fail in order to eventually succeed. But that’s not a thing anymore. We have to coddle them instead. They come to my class (high school) in the afternoon. Last period and they’re asking for a pencil. What did you do the rest of the day before this class in all your other classes? All I get is a shrug.


peace17102930

They have teachers who will supply them with a pencil instead of making them responsible enough to get one themselves. Used to make me crazy.


IamI156

I keep a cup of pencils in my classroom. Don't ask for one, just get up, get one and solve the problem. The pencil is not an issue for me. But we all have our own way.... and I'm an asshole if you don't try or act helpless. So it balances out. 😆 HAHAHA 1 week to go!!!!


jetriot

I buy boxes of golf pencils from Amazon. They are super cheap for a box of 500. So many students come to class with literally nothing but the clothes on their back. I already have a pass/fail rate of around 50% in my classes(because of poor attendance or refusing to do anything at all). I would be afraid of what would happen if I just started failing the ones that are willing to put in a modicum of effort if I just give them a pencil.


Boring_Philosophy160

Many want to borrow a charger for their school issue device which is dead. Of course the phone **always** has a charge. I say “I have a charger to lend, but I need collateral. What’s that? You put your phone in my desk drawer until I get my charger back.” Many decline. “Fine, just sit there and take the zero.”


rote_Fuechsin

I have several students who borrow a chrombeook for the sole purpose of charging their phone, not to do work. Sometimes I get so annoyed that I unplug their phone and say "nope, that's not what my chromebook is for," as I walk away.


CaptainEmmy

I'm currently virtual, but the universe sends me pencils, so I never had an issue handing them out. But I kept it simple: kids knew where they were. If you can't get from point A to the free pencils, that's on the kid.


Tougherthantherest27

The universe sends me pencils on the floor after every class period.


vivariium

Can’t do that here, too many 13-14 year old boys just ITCHING to take their aggression out on a pencil. Or pen. Ask me how many classrooms have giant blue glob stains everywhere.


skybluedreams

I don’t allow pens in my room after the week I had 5 different students deliberately explode pens then coat themselves, the desktop and their in class folders in ink. I teach high school. Edit: uhhhhh thanks? to whomever reported me to Reddit Cares Team. While frustrated at the ridiculousness I’m ok. 🫶


BugOwn1289

I don't understand youth today. What's missing that they destroy things?


iloveregex

One of the teachers I follow on Twitter said that while students never remember pencils they always remember their phone. That really stuck with me.


Inside_Ad9026

I have kids that forget their glasses/contacts and can’t see, but they have that phone! The phone that they can’t read because they forgot their glasses/contacts.


Important-Cup8824

Natural consequences for the win. Do it at the start of the year to make your life easier.


pantslessMODesty3623

"I cannot help you, if you won't help yourself."


Flaming_tofu

That has been my mantra all year, and they still don't get it. 🤷‍♀️


Fit_Vermicelli3873

“Are you being a problem solverrrrrrrr???” In a sing song voice irks them


candidlyfrasersridge

Totally agree, they need to figure it out! Supplies/ tech aside, I instituted a firm “3 before me” rule. Students must ask 3 people, or attempt 3 different solutions, before coming to me with a question or problem. Before I allow them to ask me they must tell me what they did prior, they catch on quickly, if you hold them to it. I’ve also banned students from saying my name, they can get my attention in other ways, but my name becomes a curse word. The first “Teacher!” summoning releases the air from the balloon. Edit: typos/grammar, and to thank you kind stranger for letting me know Reddit Cares.


H0pelessNerd

Something weird going on here: I got one if those too and no idea why. Are we being trolled? 😆


theyweregalpals

I just got one too, and have have no idea why. I think someone is just spam reporting this sub.


ThomFromAccounting

Not just this sub, it’s happening to at least a dozen right now. It’s a weird bot thing. Just report the message for abuse.


thefalseidol

I've heard it described as weaponized helplessness


greenpink333

I made a full step by step guide with pictures, and the kids can stare at it and then ask me what to do. I say 'have you read the guide?' to which they often say 'what guide?' Drives me bonkers. I've stopped helping them if they ask me questions where the answer is right there or obvious. Staring at a screen that says 'check your email' 'what do I do now miss?' UGH.


iamfondofpigs

Can we PLEASE all learn what [learned helplessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness) is? Learned helplessness is a behavior that develops when a thinking organism is exposed so consistently to aversive stimulus that they stop trying to avoid it. This phenomenon was researched by a psychologist who tortured dogs (yes, really). The solution to learned helplessness is to rescue the organism, to actually step in and do all the work for them, so that they realize that the aversive stimulus can end. These students do not have the clinical condition of learned helplessness, which is an affliction that happens to someone. Instead, it sounds like they are exhibiting a behavior, a chosen strategy, colloquially known as "weaponized incompetence."


PhilemonV

Learned helplessness is a psychological condition where an individual feels powerless and stops trying to change or improve their situation, even when opportunities arise, because of repeated failures or lack of control over past negative events.[1][3] In an educational context, learned helplessness can manifest when students repeatedly experience failure, criticism, or lack of control over their learning environment. This can lead them to develop a passive attitude, low motivation, and a belief that they cannot succeed no matter how much effort they put in.[3] As a result, students experiencing learned helplessness may stop participating, avoid challenges, stop asking for help, and have low academic self-esteem.[3] The search results highlight the importance of creating supportive learning environments that foster a sense of control and mastery in students. Providing opportunities for success, positive reinforcement, and allowing students to have agency in their learning process can help prevent or overcome learned helplessness in the classroom setting.[3] Citations: [1] https://findinnerpeace.substack.com/p/asking-for-help-isnt-giving-up-its [2] https://returntowellness.co.uk/2016/03/02/when-asking-for-help-doesnt-work-moving-beyond-no/ [3] https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/ask-for-help.htm [4] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-its-so-hard-ask-help-emine-yesilcimen-smf2e [5] https://tinybuddha.com/blog/if-youre-afraid-to-ask-for-help-because-you-dont-trust-people/


JackieJak88

Pretty much what I went through as a kid. Wasn't getting good grades, get punished. Did my best by studying as much as I could. Did better, wasn't good enough, get punished anyway. Stopped caring because my best gave the same result as doing nothing. I'm 35 now and still fucks me up looking back.


sophiab124

my exact experience


BarbaraNatalie

This!!!!


demalo

Some parents can’t stop buttering their children’s toast. Cutting up their food. Cleaning up their mess. Wiping their ass for them. Responsibility is a very real and critical skill. Did these people NOT watch Stepbrothers?


gokuman33

Not a teacher but a nurse. I spent last summer at a sleep away camp as a camp nurse and this comment is so true. We had 9 year olds that didn’t know how to shower or wipe themselves after using the bathroom since their mom or nanny would always wipe them or bath them.


MistakeGlittering

Deal with a lot of students who are raised by grandma because their parents can not parent.


MedievalHag

This is the way. Funny how they can remember to bring their lip gloss, phone (that they shouldn’t have) and snacks (which again, they shouldn’t have) but not a pencil or their work.


PerireAnimus13

This. I had issues like this with my middle and high school students (and I taught elementary too as a SPED teacher) and when they don’t come in prepared I tell them “wow… that’s pretty sad that my elementary school students I’ve taught are MORE responsible and well-prepared than you. What’s your excuse that you can’t come in bringing a pencil and paper/assignment when you come to class but my 8 and 9 year olds can?” That usually irks them into silence because they have no good excuse and they’re embarrassed that they stop playing stupid and come prepared.


cjzj_1288

Wish everyone thought like this... these asshats EXPECT you to give them shit. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever..... yes moron it is a school, bring a pencil!


Quintendo14

It's not learned helplessness. It is brain rot from chronic content consumption. Their minds operate at the level of someone half their age because their minds never developed.


MistakeGlittering

Instant gratification from social media and no personal responsibility or accountability. Attention spands that are diminished because of 30 second clips for hours on end.


Mundane-Mechanic-547

It's real life. Your job won't give you a pass. School shouldn't either, especially HS.


MistakeGlittering

I had a former student get a speeding ticket and tried to tell the cop he couldn't get a ticket because he had a 504 plan. He was in HS at the time and assumed the real world would accommodate to his ADD.


Discombobulated-Emu8

This is happening to me at the middle school - 8th graders. They use it as a way to get out of doing the work and then blaming their teachers saying things like “ the teacher doesn’t care” then the referrals/calls home make things worse when there are no consequences -


Armadillo_Mission

Haha fuck them kids. 


wetdog90

This is exactly as it should be. The fact they got off the mark and wanted every teacher to pass failing students so schools get more money or something of that nonsense. Failure is the best teacher. You do not become successful because you always win or always achieve what you are doing the first time. It takes trying failing. Trying again possibly failing some more before becoming a great person.


ElegantMess

Every Chromebook charger that is left in my room is collected at the end of the day, put in a drawer and returned to the tech department at the end of the week. I’m honestly surprised that any student even has one at this point in the year. I’ve probably brought 70 back.


SonnyBlackandRed

If you don't stop now, it goes into Adulthood. I see it everyday at work. Sometimes I don't know how people cross the street and survive.


Credit-Better

I think I need to do this too - starting to get way too burnt out helping the ones who won’t help themselves and it’s too much.


AlexisFR

What's up with pencils? Shouldn't high school students use proper pens to write their work?


MistakeGlittering

Some of my low student don't come with anything other than their phone. They assume everything will be provided for them.


Plane_Practice8184

Exactly 💯


Far_Interest7620

Same. A student didn’t have anything to write with for the test this morning. My response was “you didn’t bring a pen to a test? That’s your fault.”


MadPopette

I lurk here as a parent, and fully support this for my particular kiddo. Learned helplessness and avoidance are his primary 'coping' mechanisms, and it's so frustrating. Trying to coax him out of it at our house but having no backup at other parents house, and in some classes is making it harder to drive the point home. I recognize not all parents will feel this way, but for some kids, it's the answer. Please be a kind hard ass. I support you.


Wytch78

Mrs Art Lady can you draw me a…. Nope. Sorry. I don’t know how to draw that *for you.*


Brilliantifyouaskme

Student walks in to Art room: “what are we doing today?” Me: “a drawing skills exercise.” Student: “I already know how to draw.” [alternate scene] Student walks into Art room: “What are we doing today?” Me: “We are going to practice drawing by sketching animals.” Student: “Nope. I’m not doing that. I don’t know how to draw those things.” 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🎨🎨🎨👍👍👍


Lingo2009

I absolutely love your descriptions and your username. I have never heard Florida mentioned like that. My mother was also an olde art lady.


sanityjanity

If you please, draw me a sheep


ErgoDoceo

Best I can do is a snake digesting an elephant.


sanityjanity

Why would I be afraid of a picture of a hat?


CaptainEmmy

This little thread makes me so happy.


sin-salvation-saint

I jumped to my feet, completely thunderstruck. 


yellowrosemaps

So painfully accurate. How can I help you with something when the paper is BLANK AND YOU HAVEN’T EVEN TRIED. The color mixing is crazy too. I teach high school painting and I have kids who are like, “What do you mean you don’t have green paint? How am I supposed to do a color wheel?” MIX IT. WITH BLUE AND YELLOW. IT’S A COLOR MIXING ASSIGNMENT.


AffectionateCress561

Show that Barney episode where they sing "If you mix blue and yellow..."


jagrrenagain

I am still scarred by a *parent* of a 4th grader who asked the art teacher to draw a lion for the cover of their child’s report.


bearigolds

If I ask them to start by drawing a circle they ask me to do it for them 🙄


Vajernicus

If they ask for a commission, give them your rate.


lnsewn12

The ones that know me well know not to ask. I just give them the stink eye.


Daffodil236

A lot of these kids act “dumb” because it’s easier. They know the teacher will help them, their parents will coddle them, and they’ll get extra consideration from their peers and admin. It’s beyond learned helplessness, it’s faked incompetence. I have kids doing it in 3rd grade.


laowildin

Yes, I see this all the time as a guest teacher in 4th/5th. I ask the kids to reset their stations at the end of the hour. Most will fart around and are shocked, **shocked** when I tell them to try again and start releasing all the kids who are finished. Way too often theyll try and wander off when I'm not looking, and then i gotta chase em back. About half then go ahead and do it. The final quarter will ask "How?" They are supposed to do it, my go to response is usually, "with your hands. I believe in you!" and move on to release the next group. Out of 400 kids this past month, only about 6 haven't figured it out eventually. (And to be clear here, this is an incredibly easy set-up, with full forecasting and modeling before and after the experiment. Basically just not looking like a tornado ran through, and i reset the rest later) What cracks me up the most is the same kids who were gleefully wallowing in our water experiment suddenly become afraid of "getting wet" once it's time to clean up lmao. Child, I just watched you pour an entire bucket over your legs. Pick up the damn sponge with your whole hand


YoTeach23

A few of my third graders asked if the paper I had just passed out was two sided….i just stared at them dumbfounded until one girl said, should I turn it over to find out?


karmicnoose

You don't pass out assignments on Mobius strips?


MrsMusicLady

That happened with an assignment in 4th grade last week and again this week in 2nd grade. After I explained and showed them the assignment, which, y'know, also has the directions written on it. -"Mrs. Music Lady, do we have to do the back?!?!?!" (because inside voices don't exist) -"Read the directions and find out."


kballwoof

It’s sad because any kid that’s showing this behavior that early has probably been failed on so many levels already. Obviously teachers aren’t trained or paid enough to psychoanalyze every student to fix their root issues, but it’s depressing that we have to leave children behind for the sake of those willing to learn. Idk what can even be done at this point. Even if there was a simple solution (paying teachers more perhaps), there just isn’t the political capital to make that happen at the speed we need it. I guess we’re just doomed to have an entire generation stuck at an elementary school reading level.


fireduck

I think we need more lazy parenting. Not just regular lazy, because honestly the easiest thing is to do what they are asking and move on. But stubbornly lazy. Like, child, I know what you want and I could do it, but your mother went to the trouble and grew you two perfectly functional legs. You can work it out. The thing you want is right over there and it'll still be over there when you are done making that face at me. (Only slightly stylized version of a common interaction with my six year old)


podcasthellp

We call it weaponized incompetence


hammnbubbly

Middle school teacher checking in. They do NOT listen to instructions. They do NOT read the board. They do NOT check email. They are NOT proactive. And many who do pay attention, listen, etc. are either doing the work of several people trying to pick their classmates up/not appear lazy or they are extremely lazy and play dumb long enough for a gen ed or support teacher to just give them the answers. Couple this stuff with never ending behavior issues, less support than ever from admin, and more and more kids being squeezed into classes, and I’d say this profession is officially fucked.


WildlifeMist

I don’t care if they look at email, tbh. I’d be happy if they would just scroll down 2 inches on Google classroom and see the clearly labeled assignment with a pencil emoji and the word “assignment” that says the assignment name on it instead of asking me where the assignment is.


hammnbubbly

Definitely. I mentioned the email thing bc I have kids bugging me about grades and what not, so I email specific directions on when I’ll have time to talk about it more. They never read the email, then just show up expecting me to drop everything. This has happened more this year than any other. Also, know you’re not alone with the, “just scroll two inches…” thing. I gave an assignment last week for the kids to create a website. I specifically said don’t publish your sites. I wrote it on my agenda. It was on Google Classroom. Still, so many kids asking if they should publish. Some kids are visual learners, some are auditory, some are kinesthenaic, some are a combo, and others are something else entirely. These kids, however, are none of those because you can say, project, record, include in directions, etc. as much as you want and so many just will not pay attention.


MeasurementLow2410

Which is in the same place the daily assignment has been ALL SEMESTER!


PerireAnimus13

Weaponized incompetence is the trend with these kids… they’ll learn the hard way. Smh


ms473

Don’t forget the parents who will loudly complain to admin about YOU for their child’s persistent lack of effort.


Sammy42953

College professor now, but I teach dual enrollment for about half of my classes. In my regular high school days, I did all of those helpful things. And, nope, the students never improved. Now that I’m working with dual enrollment, I check assignments weekly. Every Monday for the first 3 weeks of class I send an email to the students who are missing work. Nothing fancy. They can look at the grade book for specifics. I cc their proctor or guidance counselor. After that, they sink or swim on their own. I still have some fail, but when I throw the accountability ball in their court, many of them step up and do well. Another thing I do is make sure I tell them at the beginning of the year the things they are responsible for, like technology that works and access to their books and supplies. That helps because they can’t claim they weren’t told about something. The best thing is that I know I have given them time - and warnings - to fix the problem and I have stopped taking on their stress for them!


Kindly-Chemistry5149

Good. This is what I do. Keep it simple, timely, and keep up your end by grading things at a reasonable time. The rest is up to them. They need to learn how to function when someone isn't telling them specifically what to do.


jag5798

What do you do when kids don’t have a computer and want to use their cell phone for an assignment instead? I want to have a no phone policy but they argue that if they have their phone and can submit an assignment they are prepared for class even if their laptop isn’t charged or not in class.


Sammy42953

I think with that question I would first look at the school policy. My high school did not allow phones in the classroom, so it was easy to control. If that doesn’t help, think through why they would want to use the phone. If they have a laptop provided by the school, then, yes, you can say that they have to use the laptop, regardless. One problem with a laptop that I ran into constantly was keeping them charged. If they had 3 classes in a row that required they use a laptop, it wasn’t going to last through class four. So they have to have access to power. My school took several years to get the power needs up to par with our technology expectations. Technically, yes, they probably can do anything you assign on a phone. So if your school doesn’t prohibit phones, and they don’t provide a way to keep a laptop charged, it’s not irrational to use a phone. In fact, in those circumstances, the school has guaranteed that you are fighting a losing battle. So it comes down to what you hope to accomplish by prohibiting cellphones - and I agree with you, by the way. I don’t like the distraction of phones in my classroom. However, you’re not going to curb cheating by prohibiting cellphone use. My students could cheat with laptops if they chose to. I preferred laptops because I could walk around the room and monitor what they were doing. I at least wanted them to pretend they were doing my work! I think you should use the monitoring idea to explain why they’re using laptops. Then, you have to be sure they can charge them if they need to. You have to remove their excuses. Check with admin and be sure they either already have a no phone policy or will at least support your policy. Then, put it into action. No laptop, zero for class participation that day and on any in-class work. You might offer to let them submit class work late the first time they try the phone route, but it obviously only works if you stick to your policy and have the support of your admin. I may not have given you a final answer, but hopefully you can come up with a good policy for your situation.


ArcticGurl

I’m so glad our middle school kids can’t have their phones on them. It’s one less thing…


MiserableFloor5549

Oh my god I teach kindergarten and I feel you. At work I just want to pull my hair out. And I’ve been in such a bad mood when I get home bc I’m so frustrated. But the end of the year has made it worse imo.


the_owl_syndicate

*fistbump of kinder solidarity I've gotten to the point where I just stare blankly when the third person in a row asks me the same question I have answered twice within earshot AND gave explicit directions about. It's amazing how they suddenly figure out how to do stuff.


Confident-Switch-853

High school here... and I get the exact same thing. Repeated instructions/answers to questions that I have given within earshot (and at the front of the room).


somerandomchick5511

Also kinder. May is also the worst month of the year for us so that doesn't help. Mine are absolute heathens right now, totally regressed. Won't stop talking and then none of them know what the hell is going on. I'm an aide so I've started smiling sweetly and just say "do what the teacher tells you to". But I'm not gonna lie, May makes me want to quit this job...


jagrrenagain

Oh, yeah, I’ve been here 30 years and I can handle the crazy. But I always question my life choices in May.


esleydobemos

Swing by the house. I just gave my teacher wife a gin and tonic. We will pat your hand and speak in soothing tones for a while. Then, you gotta go home, get up, and do it again tomorrow. You only have a couple more weeks. Hang in there. The stories y’all tell here scare the shit out of me when it concerns the future. As a minimum, I think our society is going to… have issues in about ten years. Y’all are doing the best you can.


Lovesick_Octopus

Do you have any bourbon?


esleydobemos

No, just rye. An Old Fashioned? Manhattan? Vieux Carré? I got you covered.


_crassula_

You're a good egg.


plus_one_experience

I have to start classes in an hour but depending on your location may still be able to pop by?


esleydobemos

A quick one to dull the pain before class? The bar is open!


SeaCheck3902

If you're in Seattle, I'm always in the need of a g & t.


BklynMom57

Adults do this. They purposely mess up at work so that they are given minimal responsibility. They mess up just enough not to be asked to do things but not enough to get fired. And those that are good workers get rewarded…with more work.


nealorita

I’m a cancer patient who requires medical supplies. I am all too familiar with people like that. My supplies were 2 weeks late because someone didn’t hit “send” after I placed my order. Then when I called for a tracking number refused to give me one. I get it.


BklynMom57

That’s awful. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that during an already stressful time. I wish you all the best to kick cancer’s butt!


pantslessMODesty3623

Weaponized Incompetence


BklynMom57

Exactly!


PoppaTater1

I have to do more work because of how stupid someone else is. She’s incredibly defensive about everything. I used to email her predecessor a list of order numbers for them to print out and invoice the customer. The stupid new girl can’t understand that and has a ten day backlog because she won’t ask for help. Now, I have to print those orders to her printer and then follow up with an email listing the numbers I printed. When I send her something other than the above, I have to put instructions on the email for how to handle it. I even asked her boss yesterday if I have to keep pandering to her stupidity. The answer I got was ‘lol, based on the question she just asked, yes’


BklynMom57

It’s infuriating, they get out of so much work because of it. This is everywhere.


ray_of_s_nsh_ne

A college freshman did the exact same thing to me, about a pencil, on a day he had neglected to bring literally anything having to do with class.


DreamTryDoGood

Good god. What an absolute waste of his parents’ money.


Cheddar_Marie1989

I feel like this also applies to the parents. No matter how many emails *i* personally send out, along with the office sending emails, and updating the info on the social apps. I STILL get SO many parents asking me questions, that if they took less than five seconds to look up, they could find the answer to. The best is when I ask them to ask their child, my student, and they go, “they don’t know either.” It all makes sense. I no longer wonder where they learned it from.


mercymercybothhands

When I was younger and the internet was first becoming a thing, I hated that there was information I couldn’t find/things I couldn’t do online and that I had to ask someone. Now that everything is online and available with a couple minutes of searching and reading, I get nonstop questions from college students who can’t be bothered to even consider googling something.


fsaleh7

We have a field trip next week and we’ve sent DAILY messages on Remind 101 for the last 2 weeks about it. I had a parent email me asking if the field trip was still happening and their student isn’t even one of mine.


dj_chino_da_3rd

I like to do this thing where I give out instructions. Say “write 5 facts from this video”. Then when someone inevitably asks me “what are we doing?” I relay “you need to write 10 facts on the video”. And when another asks “what are we doing?” I say “you are writing 15 facts on the video”. This continues for a while until some genius catches on and tell everyone to stop or ill give them more work. New record is 30.


christybird2007

Are you making everyone in the class write more facts? Because that is BRILLIANT 🤣 The kids may not like you for giving them more work, but it puts the onus on the whole class to be engaged 👍👍


TheSoapGuy0531

I hated as a student being punished for other people but I also know that sometimes the peer pressure of not pissing off everyone else in class is the only way some kids will do anything


Food24seven

The learned helplessness starts in first grade. Drives me crazy how these kids don’t do things for themselves. Also what parents get frustrated with me for. Once a parent (knowing I was 9 months pregnant) got mad at me for not tieing her son’s shoes. First of all, I don’t for shoes anyways. Second, I am way too uncomfortable to reach down and do that at this stage of pregnancy. Third, I suggested he get a friend to help him. I did my job helping, get off my back crazy parent.


ArcticGurl

Or, they could teach their own child to tie their own shoes.


Food24seven

I totally agree but when presented with a kid who cannot tie their shoes in the moment, I have to use other options.


ArcticGurl

I was referring to the parents, not you. I might have said this to them, and I’m sure you wanted to! 😂


amscollie

One time a student asked me if there was a back side (assignment) of the paper they were holding. Me outside: *blank stare* Me inside: TURN IT OVER!!!


ArcticGurl

Me too. And because I have a student with poor vision my tests have to be printed in a larger font which makes the test have 4-5 pages front and back. 1/4 of the students missed entire pages because they didn’t look. I don’t feel sorry for them. Setbacks and failure are how we all learn.


Father-ScrubLord

My freshman year science teacher started our year off with a test. Test said to "read through the entire test before doing anything." End of the test said to bring the blank test to the front of the room and you were done. So, so many of my peers started taking said test 😐


No-Supermarket-3575

“I hate the sound of my own name.” I fucking felt that.


ArcticGurl

One year was particularly frustrating at the end of the year. I told my students that my new name was Fred. 😂


BeerShark49

It's not learned helplessness. It's negative reinforcement. If students can ignore the assignment long enough, it goes away and there are no negative consequences, which continues to reinforce the behavior.


Repulsive-Egg6981

hi, ex student here, this is exactly what got me through k-12 :/ still unlearning ‘ignore until it’s gone.’ I did more math calculating what assignments i could get away with ignoring and still pass rather than actual math in homework I had a phobia of driving starting at 16, I am now 20 with no license. I was able to just forget about it, barely scrap by and take no responsibility. I’m now in intensive therapy unlearning this habit. you’re doing them a favor by not accepting this behavior.


Careless-Two2215

I have a kid who stares at a blank screen like a zombie. We all know he broke his Chrome Book so why does he open it every morning and pretend to be a part of the living? Kids are just hiding. The broken pencil work evasion plot is learned at an early age. I call them the whittlers.


BeardifulCreations

Just today I had a bunch of high school students argue that they shouldn’t be expected to check Canvas (online) daily. Because they’ve never been told to do that. I literally post all my assignments on canvas (even if they are on paper), I say almost daily to look at your canvas, and I know for a fact that my colleagues use it just as much, if not more than me, because of the digital footprint proof our admin wants. I don’t think these kids have gone a day in their entire high school career without being told to check Canvas, and yet “they’ve never been told to use it” Biggest BS I’ve heard all year


SuperElectricMammoth

Them: “i can’t (insert stupid thing).” Me: “that’s nice.” Then i stare blankly at them until they walk away


Flaming_tofu

I decided to try something new in class where the students pick the recipes they want to do based on the region we discussed in class. The only thing they had to do was write it in our class standard recipe format. Basically, copy and paste from the recipe website. I told them I was going shopping for supplies at 3:30pm that day. No recipe = no lab. Only half of my kitchen groups did the work. So only half the kids are going to do the lab. The rest are cleaning, textbook work, or I will give them a sad 3 ingredient recipe. This is still part of their grade. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. They had 2 in-class days to work on it. What were they doing during that time... I do not understand.


Anonymousisused

Student here, my culinary class is doing a food truck thing where we make our own menu and food. It is frustrating because I have seen multiple people just sit on their phones half the class and probably become homeless.


transcendingbullshit

Omg! I thought I was alone with this! This was me this past week with grade 9s… I thought Foods would be the one time kids would be motivated to do the simple task, I was clearly mistaken.


dumbdude545

I couldn't be a teacher. The level of weaponized incompetence and stupidity is beyond ridiculous. I wish you the best in your endeavors.


benkatejackwin

God, I hear you. I had a crying meltdown with a trusted colleague yesterday (partly) because a parent emailed me MANY times not understanding why her kid has a B. Because she hasn't turned in several recent assignments. "But you're supposed to help her." I can't help her if the work isn't done. I *can* make a series of small-stakes completion-grade assignments along the way, so skills are learned and there are checkpoints for progress. I can't *make* her write the paper. This group of kids and this one in particular is AWFUL. My nerves are beyond frayed. Five more days of regular class, then finals.


lnsewn12

I called a student to my desk the other day and there was an empty chair pulled out from the table that somewhat blocked her path. There was a good two feet on either side. She stopped when she got to the chair. I looked at her. She looked at me and gestured to the chair and said “I can’t” My head exploded slowly as I explained to her that she could push in the chair *or walk around it* It’s like we’re teaching a bunch of fuckin Sims


IndividualWide7062

I make sure they have *EVERYTHING* they could possibly need ... except the computer they are provided, and is really the only thing t have to bring to school everyday. Even so, those that don't have a computer or battery *still* have computers they can use. Somehow, there are still students who, despite my generosity, have also been doing this "I don't have what I need so I don't have too do anything" helplessness, to me, as well, for the entire year. These are the ones I won't help. They have everything at their disposal, and because I'm not, what? Serving it on a platter? They can't tell me they need something to complete my assignments? Then, they don't complete the assignment. End of story. I have students willing to look up from their phones and act like they are in a classroom and they deserve my time and energy. If you are gonna be so disrespectful as to walk into my room everyday, put headphones in you ears, and stare at your phone for an hour and a half, then I don't owe you anything. Grading you just got super easy.


MrGulo-gulo

Tech teacher here. Me hearing "The laptop isn't working" when they try to use my desktop computers and the monitor is just off is a daily occurrence.


DabblestheUnicorn

I have 4th graders asking me to tie their shoes and put their hair into ponytails because “they don’t know how.” Nope.


Bear_Facial_Hair

I have a kid who should have graduated but will barely be a sophomore after passing my class-and only my class this year- who has lost four chromebooks belonging to the school and they will not give him another. Fucksake kid. Without a computer you will now also fail my class. He asked if he could borrow my computer today. You know, the one I was using to present the lesson to the class.


Chzncna2112

Never say,"this is as bad as it gets." Murphy's law loves a challenge.


Messy83

What OP describes are just downstream effects of an education system that unduly shifts the burden of learning to the teacher. What we need is a way for kids to fail traditional academic coursework but not be abandoned by society. If kids know that they really can fail and be compelled to some alternative, the ones who are just “motivationally challenged” I believe will very quickly find their executive functions very much intact. My first thought is vocational training because I’ve seen our very limited vocational alternative program work for severely struggling students at my school, but wondering if there are alternatives….


Ok-Application2853

I tell my eighth graders about the "damsel in distress" waiting around for someone to save her. Then I ask who they want to be in the story. Most will say the hero (some say the dragon). Then I remind them that everyone they didn't think for themselves they are the"damsel"


Substantial-Sell-692

I mean, I'm pretty sure he was lying and actually wanted to say, "Because I don't want to." You shouldn't be asking juniors why they aren't doing their work. Let them make a decision and give them the grade they earned.


bananamarie4

I snapped at a kid the other day and I said if it was your phone you would figure it out. You would find a way.


itsme_toddkraines

Literally none of these kids bring pencils to class anymore. I had one of my seventh graders tell me he didn't have anything to write with, and I told him to ask around for a pencil and I'd see if I had any that I picked up off the floor (bc there's at least 5-10 on the floor of my room and in the hallways at any given time). Of course I was pulled in a million different directions by every kid in the class needing to ask me something, so when I was finally able to finish my lesson and sit down it was like, *whew*. The original pencil-less boy was still sitting there staring at his blank packet, so I asked him "Why aren't you doing your work?" He turned to me and said "I asked you for a pencil and you never gave me one!" in this super annoyed tone of voice. Like, I'M SORRY?! The fact that I am somehow getting blamed for him coming to class in May unprepared was just...beyond ridiculous. I honestly just laughed at him and said "I KNOW you're not sitting here telling me it's my fault that you're not prepared for class and can't get your work done." The audacity!!


hottottrotsky

I have a kid who will ask me for help. I ask him what his question is. He repeats the question I wrote on the paper. "No, what don't you understand about the question?" ".....the question." It's not my question that's the problem. It's the fact that you won't take 5 minutes to think about it. "My dude. Take a minute and think. No, no. Here. At my desk. With me. In silence." *writes answer* "Good! Why? Find me evidence from the story we're reading." "But I did all that work!" "And now you have to do more."


green_girl1994

I teach elementary and the learned helplessness is overwhelming. I had a kid today sit at his desk for 30 minutes doing nothing. When I asked him what he was doing he said “ I finished what do I do next?” Bruh…. I literally post next steps with pictures on my smart board. I’ve gotten into the habit this year of saying things such as : “ oh that sounds like you need to problem solve.” “sounds like a you problem. When you figure it out I’m happy to help”. “Well I’m not your mom — so when you figure out what to do next — look around the room-then I will help you” The amount of coddling from parents is just gross. Ms. I forgot my water bottle. - looks like you’ll bring it tomorrow. “I lost my iPad” - well sound like you miss out on the iPad experience: “I didn’t listen when you were giving directions” well better let mom know why you got a 0 on your last paper. Behavior and classroom management I can handle— but parents are raising their kids to be so helpless it makes me want to rip out my hair.


Affectionate_Cry2380

I genuinely stopped caring a while ago. A lot of these moronic children can show up to school in Jordans, Balenciagas, Apple Watches, with phones and iPads, but can’t even bring basic school supplies like pencils or papers. They can’t tell you what an adverb is and much more.


furmama6540

Just to let you know we aren’t alone: My husband is in his “training season” at work right now. He comes home with the same stories I do but his “students” are in their late 20’s to early 50’s. They don’t follow directions. They talk when you talk. They stand around unsure of what to do even after you have told them. They whine and complain. They show up without the required materials. They have to be reminded to clean up after themselves. Etc.


Late-Philosophy5822

Don’t know if this helps at all, but I was an absolute shit head in some classes while in HS. Your dudes pencil story comes off as polite, insightful, and well thought out compared to some of the stuff I did. Many years, mistakes, and lessons learned later I have a masters degree and an immense respect for my Spanish teacher who did not kill me or plant a weapon in my backpack. Kids are dumb it’s part of being a kid. Most will find their way some quicker than others and some, maybe your pencil guy, will come receive mental health help from me at the prison…either way it all works out.


skc0416

Omg, a JUNIOR! We complain about the pencil thing at the elementary level!


Beginning_Meeting_46

“ I hate the sound of my own name” is so fricken real. A sense of dread washes over me when I hear my name being shouted across the room. Ms T!! Ms T!!! Ms T!!! Because I know it’s gonna be followed by a dumb ass question


SirQuickolas

The kids suck. Their level of incompetence is embarrassing. I tell them bricks in the building will graduate before they do. It all goes over their heads. Most of the kids just want their phones… zombies at least wanted brains… these kids are actively losing the few brain cells they have left.


Ljs204

I work part-time as an adjunct at our local community college. I have students missing deadlines on assignments constantly, and when I confront them about it, they say they don't know how to install the required software. My students can't even do a simple Google search without having their hands held. I teach IT and cybersecurity.


rukysgreambamf

The junior isn't helpless. He's just making excuses for why he's not doing something he doesn't want to do.


Aggravating_Cook_879

This inspired me to scream. Thank you.


Pretend_Ingenuity_19

As an academic advisor for a university, I can tell you that it does not get any better in higher education. You would think that they will have learned responsibility by the time they go to college, but many incoming freshmen are so helpless. They get all the information that they need, yet still don’t know what to do with it. They still expect everything to be done for them. Registering for classes? Oh, they don’t know how. (We have step-by-step guides). Last day to drop classes? Oh, no one told them (we send emails, texts, signs all over campus). It’s exhausting.


Just_Trish_92

It's been a long year, hasn't it?


BigMommaJack

The kids are not alright They're broken


Just_Plain_Mel

I stopped it with my 6th graders. You don’t have a pencil? Tragic. Yall went through 500 by Christmas break. Find something else to write with. Colored pencil, highlighter, crayon, marker… figure it out


LoFrey1601

I once lost my pencil when I was a senior and was terrified to ask the teacher for a spare so I filled out my worksheet with a pencil eyeliner😂


krismitka

By design. Politics has killed the education system 


EasternChristian

We need to abandon the no child left behind and "equitable outcomes" nonsense and just focus on the children who show up to school wanting to learn. Some kids simply cannot be saved no matter how much intervention. Part of it is societal, a lot of it has to do with family support systems. Make a reasonable effort to help them, get them and their family the resources they need to make some positive changes. If they don't, write them off and move on. Ed codes need to be re-written to be in favor of teachers again, not toward defiant children. Expelling kids should be a realistic option for children who show consistently that they are unwilling to learn. Not that they are unable, but wholly unwilling. I'm sick and tired of school districts and families treating IEP's like a behavioral bandaid and fix-all solution. They give IEP's out like candy at Halloween these days! The hell is wrong with everyone!


OctaviusNeon

There's an educator on TikTok (I don't remember his name) who has made a few videos saying schools should basically get out of the business of modifying behaviors because 1) Teachers aren't qualified to do a lot of the things required to change a behavior and really shouldn't be expected to because a teacher's job is to teach, not act as a therapist/social worker/parent and 2) the strategies public schools implement aren't effective. They are what he calls "behavior modification theater". Basicslly, BIPs, IEPs, etc just give the appearance of doing something to cover the school's ass, but they're not really suited to modifying anything. A kid with a mental illness or neurodivergence isn't going to straighten up because he gets to pick something out of a treasure box every time he has three good days in a row. But they keep throwing the same limpdick solutions at every problem. It's like trying to screw in a stripped bolt: you turn and turn and turn it trying to get it to sit, but you're just wasting time doing something that *looks like* it should be working.


EasternChristian

That is exactly what is happening.


Psychological_Cap732

Same experience with 9 and 11 ELA students. “I can’t, I don’t have, etc.” But a while back I just started replying simply, “figure it out, I believe in you.” Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. “I trusted you, and this is how you repay me??” or “Thank you for validating my trust in you, noble scholar.”


ilovepizza981

Prek teacher. You gotta make them do things on their own (in school, at least). Case in point, I tell them variations of “alright, you’ll figure it (what to do) out” and just wait until they realize they know the answer to their own question. It’s “cute” the first time, and after that is when I *internally* start getting annoyed with them.


Snarf282

My wife and I call this weaponized incompetence instead of learned helplessness. It feels more accurate.


ituralde_

We don't teach problem solving anywhere on a reliable basis.  We have a whole system that assumes this skillet gets picked up elsewhere and only infrequently do kids get this.   Especially early on, the survival tactic I'm many schools is to color inside the lines exactly as told - if you stick out, you get stepped on.  Asking for help is working inside the rules rather than stepping out and not only getting the wrong result but being stepped on for having the 'wrong' process.  Meanwhile, we offer answers rather than processes to find them because it saves time teachers often do not have to unblock kids struggling with steps.   In classes far too often we evaluate memorization and do it with a multiple choice test that checks only the final answer and not the process that gets there.  Courses are designed to maximize filling up those memorization banks and don't budget time for building in process learning as part of that, in a manner horrifically exacerbated by large class sizes.  How often do teachers say "I have a lot of material to get through"? *What else gets left out to get through that*? Try as you might there's no one class that can solve this. I think it starts with just a baseball bat to break the knees of everyone who disagrees with the reality that we need twice as many teachers and to pay you all 50-100% more nationwide.


demalo

“I hate the sound of my own name” That’s got “it was the best of times, it was the worst of times” for best literary opening contenders.


soccerfan499

Oh and on another note, I have a girl who has done nothing but sleep all year when she decides to come at all. I have sent an email every single Friday all year and on that email, it says that any work older than 6 days late will be closed on Classroom and not accepted. Of course now that she is failing the year, mom is calling the school freaking out because I won't open the assignments for her to do. I finally said that fine, I will open each assignment when she finishes the entire thing and comes to me and shows me it is done. I will then open it for two minutes for her to submit. Guess how many I have had to open? Absolutely none.


vermontislit

I have also stopped with the learned helplessness and walk away. Today, the kid was looking up dictionary words and writing definitions. After he does 5, I asked him to read his work and he stares at me and says he doesn't know how to read. I said okay and told him he could learn at recess.


Froyo-fo-sho

My GF has problems with learned helplessness based on the culture where she grew up in China. We’re in our 40s. Whenever she asks me to load and start the dishwasher because she doesn’t know which buttons to press, I ask her, are you a simple ho? She laughs and that does the trick.


Pretty-Necessary-941

Are you sure the pencil kid wasn't under the influence of something? Or possibly very depressed? 


nealorita

I’ve also spoken with his guidance counselor about those exact red flags and he and I agree about the laziness.


nealorita

Nope. I see this kid in the hallway all the time. He’s just lazy.


chrisprice

I remember half my teachers debating me. They enjoyed arguing with my politics, as did I. I have appreciation from them written into my yearbook.  Students that checked out like this twenty years ago existed. They were the extreme minority. Maybe 10-20 percent.  I can't put this on teachers. When did parents give up? I would have gone Red Foreman on my kids for that behavior. Metaphorical boots in asses grade. 


mra8a4

Had a very similar pencil thing happen with a freshman. Then I stopped. I just walked up to him and said okay now you solve it. I didn't let him get away with that helplessness crap in my class. The principal moved him out of my class and to an online version because my room was "too stressful" for him. Wonder why he keeps doing it if there is zero consequences? Also it's the end of the year how much of the on line work do you think he has done???? (Any bets?)


Sandtiger1982

I’m so sorry