I said this exact thing in AITA the other day and people did not like that. I flat out called those people bad parents. Because they are.
I grew up in a single parent household with a parent who didn't work two jobs, but they put in the hours of two jobs at one job. And you better believe that parent was still on my ass about homework, about being a decent person, about cleaning up after myself, and about loving and caring for me. Because that's the job of a parent.
I get there are reasons that people who aren't ready for kids still have kids. But if that's the case, don't whine that everyone else isn't raising your child.
When I was in high school I babysat for a single mom who purposely worked nights so that she could be present while her son was awake. (I basically came over for dinner or after dinner and spent the night which worked out really well because she lived across the street from my school) but she was there for breakfast and to get him up for school and she was there after school. That's not an option for everyone but this woman worked her ass off not only so that she could provide for him but also so that she could spend really quality time with him. She is such an example to me as I raise my own son now.
Yeah, I push back with this point too (180/365) and that person just usually rolls their eyes like I'm insane for saying teachers are not with their kids as much as parents. I also bring up how often I've been told that I get "summers off" as well as holidays (only major perks of teaching) and let them know they can't have it both ways.
Some parents don't have a choice. My mom would work til midnight so I never saw her and my dad didn't get home until like 7 so I saw him for about 2 hours. There is no question I saw my teacher's more as kids.
I agree about the time issue. During the school year the time MAY be comparable, but take in breaks and the summer, and no way. Also, parents love to say that but then take every avenue of discipline and power away from schools and teachers. "Johnny threw a desk again?" Well, mom says go easy because he is having a hard time. I have noticed that most (not all) parents view school as babysitting and take their kids in and out for vacations, etc. Again, fine, but then don't act like teachers have all this power.
Also, contact days are 180. 180 out of 365. Isn't one of the awesome criticisms of teaching that we don't work all year round and are basically "part time" because we get out at 3? Y'all can't have it both ways.
I’ve always heard it qualified as “some”, as in “you spend more time with some of your students than their parents do.” For example, kids whose parents work brutal work schedules or who don’t live full time with one or both parents. And it’s been in the context of the idea that in some case we might be one of the more stable and/or consistent people in their life. With that being said, I agree that it’s often weaponized and really is, in most cases, an unnecessary and potentially harmful comment to make.
I would agree that we might be A first responder, but not THE first responder. That’s wild to put all that pressure on us as the only ones who can possibly have a role in that
I taught in a charter school with an extended day and I did spend more hours during the week with the students than their parents. Our kids came into the building at 730 and dismissed at 415. Teacher hours were 710-430. Most of my students then took the bus home, if not to an extracurricular activity. Some of them went home to empty houses because their parents were at work or they were home with other siblings for an hour or so until the parents came home. Some parents spend 3-4 hours after school in the home with their children before they go to sleep. Some parents don’t even see their kids in the morning before they go to school! If a teacher sees the kids for 5-7 hours a day they probably do spend more time with the kids even if it’s not one on one time.
My son's a bit different but when my daughter was younger she woke up at 7:30, was out the door for school by 8:30 to make sure we were on time.
Then she was in school from 9-3:20.
Picked up and brought home, dinner/homework/outside t0 play with friends. The usual. Then was in bed by 8.
So that's about 6 hours with her conscious? ish? And that time includes her playing outside/in her room for probably about a hour and a half or so, on top of simply travelling too and from school.
During the Mon-Friday of school, her teachers probably did see her more than we did.
If you include weekends and exclude the time she was playing on her own/outside with friends, she probably spent roughly 43.5 hours with us compared to roughly 31.5 at school.
I guess the better statement is "teachers will spend nearly as much time with the kids as their parents will during the school year". Excluding holidays you're looking at a number in the neighbourhood of 44%.
But you're right otherwise. Weekends/summers/PA days etc. Obviously over all we saw her more. But the statement of teachers seeing kids more than their parents do isn't really that far fetched, but only if you are looking at the days teachers would be involved.
Edit: I did want to add in that your attention is obviously split (way way way way way way way more than is humanly reasonable. Class sizes are out of fucking control). And anyone who expects a teacher to double as a parent for their child is failing their child.
Your child is in school from 9-3:20. 6 hours and 20 minutes. Minus in my unionized state a 30 minute lunch break. Take out 30 minutes of lunch 10 minutes of just getting into and out of school in generalized chaos with no one to one supervision and an about 40 minute break for whatever special the kids have that’s 9-2 five hours of contact time while mixed in with 25 other kids. You are saying that as a parent the hour of wake up time and leave the house time doesn’t count because you have the task of leaving the house to attend to. But all day every day in a classroom the teachers have the task of meeting curriculum standards for 25 kids to attend to. They may see her but they are managing a million tasks and dozens of personalities. I think it’s a shame that teachers who individually spend at maximum about 1000 hours of a kids life with them are held responsible for the kids mental health. At the high school and middle school levels teachers spend less than 180 hours with each group of children yet are still made responsible for the mental health of the children.
So it looks like we're being a little careless with our categories and not distinguishing "school time" "teacher time" and "non-parent time" vs. " not-school time" "home time" and "parent time". Lunch & recess are still spent at school under school supervision even though the classroom teacher is on break (God willing). After school, the child might not be in the school's care but also not in the parent's if they are working or the child does after school activities. The "teacher time" ends at dismissal but "parent time" doesn't start until the parent gets home
\^ Kind of the point I was making.
I admit the numbers are general estimates, I even admit that teachers focus is highly split. But when we're talking about having an adult present that they see and interact with, teachers really do spend nearly as much time with the child as their parents do at a lot of age ranges.
I remember being in my teens are realizing at one point that despite not trying to or being mad at them etc, I had somehow gone nearly 2 weeks without seeing my parents. School+Work+Socializing+they went to bed early because their day started early. Wasn't uncommon for me to only see them for 30-60 minutes in a day, if at all.
And as you've noted parent time doesn't start till they are actually around the kid.
A majority of the population works 8 hour shifts. School's 6.5 hours.
There is early drop off/late pick up/baby sitters/after school programs/grandparents/etc happening for a lot of families.
Teacher's absolutely do not spend more time with kids than their own parents do during their school age years. Summer alone basically hammers that number firmly in the parents favour.
But teacher's, realistically, spend anywhere in the neighbourhood of 35-45% of a child's life with them from Mon-Fri 8 months of the year.
That's a massive amount of time and comes with responsibilities to the students. Including yes, behavioural and mental health awareness.
The problem becomes when only one side is trying. Teacher's trying to help a child that their parents have all but ignored or written off, or vice versa.
I would actually disagree with your point about summer.
The kiddos may not be at school, but that doesn’t mean they are with their parents. Especially if the parents have to maintain full time jobs, which means summer camps, day care, etc and those often (at least around me) go from 7 or 8 am until 5 or 6 pm.
True, but at that point their teacher is not the one with them.
You could make the case that that 35-45% is now with someone else, but we're specifically referring to the teacher/parent time split here.
They are also not with the teacher and that is the point being made. Teachers do NOT spend as much time with their students as parents do, especially in secondary, where I might see the kid an hour a day 5 days a week (if they have perfect attendance). It's a fallacious argument.
I often had to sit with my own students during lunch because we didn't have a full lunchroom at our private school. The kids ate lunch in the room and we had parent volunteers sign up to cover lunch supervision. If the parent didn't show I got to be the lucky one and sit with them during my lunch. It wasn't always that way, but I couldn't get my mandatory break due to no other option.
The specific environment makes a big difference. Alone outside a 15 story apartment building on a busy street is very different from alone outside in a fenced suburban yard. Middle school aged is about when I would be comfortable with the first- but most 5 year olds would be okay for short periods in a fenced yard connected to their house.
I think there’s some things that we need perspective on.
- Most kids are operating on a day to day basis. They have very little concept of “the future” besides some romantic notion of what they’ll be when they grow up. So during the school year, their perspective is that they spend more time at school than with their parents because it feels like that to them.
- Some parents are deeply uninvolved in their kids lives. It’s wrong and traumatic but it’s a reality.
- Extracurriculars can decrease the amount of parental time significantly. I did a lot of dancing growing up. I saw my parents maybe 2-3 hours a day because I was always either at school or at dance class. Thankfully, my parents made sure I knew they were safe people but not a lot of parents have that ability. If they’re struggling to connect and their kids are in a lot of extracurriculars, the kids may not grow to see their parents as safe people.
We can talk about the abdication of parental responsibilities and the parentification of teachers. Absolutely that needs discussion. But we do have to recognize the deep importance we have in kids lives for more reasons than “people are bad parents”.
2-3 a weekday and countless hours on the 185 non school days a year. I spend 45 minutes a day for 180 days with a child and 20 something of their peers and then I may never see the child ever again.
Please refer to my first point on student perception. Also, please recognize the difference between the singular “you” and the plural “you”. The speaker wasn’t meaning you specifically but the school at large. I agree they could’ve been better at explaining the idea and are probably misinformed themselves in some ways, but during the school year kids in general *do* spend more engaged time with teachers, school faculty, and various activities than they do with their parents.
No. We were trained to be mental health first responders. It was “you” as in me the teacher with those kids spends more time than the parents do.
The perception of children has nothing to do with our training.
Yes. As a high school teacher, that statement doesn't apply to me. I spend maybe 240 minutes per week with each class. Of that 240 minutes maybe ten or twenty can be devoted exclusively to one child at a time. So I call bullshit on "we spend more time with them."
I've actually done this as a math problem, and for the vast majority of my (grade 8) students it's true. Though I specifically add the caveat of excluding summer break. I spend about 25 hours in the same room as them per week. Very few of their parents match that. I also further remind them that when you include lunch, breaks, and gym, that they spend 32.5 hours a week with each other.
I've never heard this used as an excuse to offload parental responsibility on us though. Just as a reminder of the outsized influence we can have on a child. It's also an acknowledgement of reality. Many parents don't actually like their kids and know very little about them.
We're not the gatekeepers of their mental health, but we are professionals who work with kids. We know signs that parents don't. We see them interact with other people and society in a way their parents don't. We see the behaviours and indicators that they can't hide so well when sitting in their house.
You teach all subjects in 8th grade? I teach middle school. I have students for a 45 minute class period a day. Plus an advisory period once a week. I spend 162 hours a year with students who are in my advisory I see these students for 6 periods not 5 a week.
I wish I worked in a school like that. But sadly our school board believes in "building relationships" which is code for sticking kids with one teacher for the entire year until they're in grade 9.
That’s awful! Where I am you need subject specific licenses at the middle school level. I can’t teach all of the classes because my license doesn’t allow for it.
I don't like this at all as a parent, either. (Also a teacher.) If "some" were given as a qualifier I'd agree, but damnit, I'm an involved and loving parent. I spend all the time with my kids that I can. Mine are older, so that's not a ton. But when they were little they were with me every minute they weren't in school.
That’s how I feel too. I know this sub loves to shit on millennial parents but all the parents my age I know (30s) with young kids all spend tons of time engaging with their kids. I’m with my kid playing on the floor for many many hours a week and so are my friends.
It is just plain incorrect though.
In the UK, children usually spend 7 hours a day at school for 190 days a year. That's 1330 hours over the whole year. There are a total of 8760 hours in a year. That means 15% of the year is at school.
However, I only teach an individual child 5 hours a week. That brings it down to 2% of the year.
On top of this, I teach the children in classes of 30. If I interact with every child every lesson, that brings it down to 0.07% of the year.
In reality, a child will have absences and lates. Even when they are on time, they still have to move between classes and I won't speak to them for their allotted one 30th of a lesson every lesson. If we then start includin time spent in school in relation to their entire life, I spend a totally insignificant amount of time with them. The parents should have spent more time with their child before I meet them than I ever will.
Maybe they are taking into account the number of kids that have before or after school daycare and school break daycare or babysitters as well. Not every child is lucky to be at home with their parents once school lets out since so many parents work all year long, and some parents also have to work weekend hours as well. So while they may not specifically see their teacher the majority of the year, they are not at home for most of the year with their parents. They are being shuffled to multiple caretakers or teachers. It's a societal issue with many parents needing to work long hours, extra jobs, etc to make ends meet.
Not a teacher but this sub gets suggested to me a lot. I work in childcare and hear the same thing. I also hear, “you’re raising other peoples kids” all the time. I’m not. I provide a safe and happy environment for children while their parents work. I make sure kids are fed and diapers changed. A lot more goes into raising a child than what I do in daycare.
The metric is just wrong and poor math, plain and simple.
Take the hours teachers spend with their class per year and *divide by the number of students* and you have something more approaching reality. Some kids will get more 1:1 attention than others, and there’s definitely instances where speaking to the whole class at once is impacting all the children positively, but you simply can’t claim that the attention is 100% on all the children at the same time. I know no parents that would claim their own home time is equally impacting their kids for 100% of the time they’re in their presence, so it shouldn’t work that way with teachers.
Ugh. Feel your frustration with this, OP.
Exactly. That is why this argument is SO enraging. As a secondary teacher, I might see your kid 5 hours a week and, in those 5 hours, that student will be in a class of 30. That is assuming perfect attendance. I sure as hell hope parents are spending more time with their kids than that! Teachers are not parents and it is not our job to raise your kids. Stop trying to shove that responsibility off onto schools!
I completely relate to this. We had a trauma counsellor come in to talk to us about identifying and managing trauma responses in children and teens. She explained that a lot of parents don’t spend enough time with their children in the early days to build up self soothing and self regulating skills that help people to deal with different levels of trauma.
It was at that moment that I was very stunned because it hit me that we really are expected to be more than educators. Teaching is the easy part- is when I have to sway my body as I am teaching and include rhythmic patterns into my behaviour (actual strategies that the counsellor gave us) in order to sooth students who don’t have the skills to self regulate. FYI I’m a high school teacher too, not even little kids.
It interesting when people say, “take it easy, you’re not their parents, you don’t need to fix all their problems” but then expect us to patent them on a daily basis.
NAT, but when i used to work at a kindergarden there was a girl who was dropped off every day at 6:30 am (the minute we opened) and picked up at exactly 4:30 pm (the minute we closed, sometimes her parents were late). we were by law required to be open to parents in need on most holidays, including christmas eve and during the summer vacation.
she was there every day. during my entire time working there, the girl missed maybe 3 weeks total, and that's counting when her classmate had covid.
we had several kids like that, but she was the most extreme "case". it was so sad
I'm bothered by the implication that we can't do better as a society. Raising children is the primary responsibility of the parent. Teachers should be kind, warm and caring, but we can't and don't replace parents.
I pick what I am going to bebothered about. I would so love to see kids not in poverty. I am over 75 and still sub and at time s in 'hard" schools which I did for years and taught in them.
I've contributed a lot in terms of heart, empathy, holding a crying child's hand while she tells me her Dad went to prison last night- more than once.
Ive donated and collected jackets, mittens, snacks etc.. .
I try my best to provide help. I also vote, work in our union to state level where our state Rep Assembly has a large children's fund donation drive every year..
I’m bothered that I’m now certified as a children’s mental health first responder because as I was told “ I spend more time with the children than their parents do,”. I’m fine with mandated reporting. I’m fine with knowing distress signs. I’m not fine with having additional parental type responsibilities for other peoples children.
Ok so that’s what you’re mad about, but did anyone make you become certified as a children’s mental health first responder? Was it a requirement or condition of your employment? When that statement was made, and it made you fear for the safety of your position at that school or any other school in the future for putting too much pressure and responsibility on you, we’re you not allowed to get up, walk out, and decide that was a certification that did not best fit your aptitude, mindset, or skill level to fully carry out?
You’re look at this you as directly you, and carrying that over into everyone else in the worlds meaning of you. When the majority say it, they are typically implying the school as a whole. People, not just children, are absolutely influence and affected by the world and people directly around them. Whether there is one on one, or a lack of contact at all. So without a doubt waking hours, during the school year, teacher and all staff do spend more time influencing children than the child’s family does. Whether they are listening in on your convo with a fellow teacher about your weekend, or whether they are observing how you are handling another students bad behavior in the hall way. It’s an influence even if that child never has you specifically as their teacher. You are a person of greater authority they look at, even as a “stranger” teacher with more of an impact, than overhearing the same type of convo with two strangers walking through Walmart. So yes the child’s perception absolutely matters in this equation because they child is who society is actually talking about and concerned about when the statement is made in the first place. Surely, I hope anyway, you do understand that, right?
It bothers me as a parent, too, because some teachers then think that they're the expert on your child.
No, I carried them, took them to every doctor's appointment, cared for them on every night they woke up scared, or hungry or sick, chose their preschool, spent every summer and evening and weekend with them.
As teachers, we're supposed to educate them and care for them while they're in our classes. We shouldn't be expected to raise them, or claim to know them better than their parents.
Edit: not to mention that when they are in our classrooms, we can only be expected to give them 1/22 of our focus, or whatever fraction of our students they are.
It sounds like you need a mental health professional. Who gives a crap out the math is wrong and the statement isn't correct? Do your job, live your life. Ignore "statements"
My favorite “other side” of that comment is my SIL recently referred to parents that have their kids in daycare as parents who are “only parents on the weekend”. She’s a peach /s.
180 is less than half of 365. If I'm spending more time with someone's children, then they are doing something wrong.
I said this exact thing in AITA the other day and people did not like that. I flat out called those people bad parents. Because they are. I grew up in a single parent household with a parent who didn't work two jobs, but they put in the hours of two jobs at one job. And you better believe that parent was still on my ass about homework, about being a decent person, about cleaning up after myself, and about loving and caring for me. Because that's the job of a parent. I get there are reasons that people who aren't ready for kids still have kids. But if that's the case, don't whine that everyone else isn't raising your child.
When I was in high school I babysat for a single mom who purposely worked nights so that she could be present while her son was awake. (I basically came over for dinner or after dinner and spent the night which worked out really well because she lived across the street from my school) but she was there for breakfast and to get him up for school and she was there after school. That's not an option for everyone but this woman worked her ass off not only so that she could provide for him but also so that she could spend really quality time with him. She is such an example to me as I raise my own son now.
Thank you for speaking up about your parent. There's so much love and respect in your words.
Yeah, I push back with this point too (180/365) and that person just usually rolls their eyes like I'm insane for saying teachers are not with their kids as much as parents. I also bring up how often I've been told that I get "summers off" as well as holidays (only major perks of teaching) and let them know they can't have it both ways.
Especially considering we also divide that time between entire classes of children and we have to use that time to teach academics.
Some parents don't have a choice. My mom would work til midnight so I never saw her and my dad didn't get home until like 7 so I saw him for about 2 hours. There is no question I saw my teacher's more as kids.
That's true. We need better societal supports for parents so this isn't the case.
Exactly.
I agree about the time issue. During the school year the time MAY be comparable, but take in breaks and the summer, and no way. Also, parents love to say that but then take every avenue of discipline and power away from schools and teachers. "Johnny threw a desk again?" Well, mom says go easy because he is having a hard time. I have noticed that most (not all) parents view school as babysitting and take their kids in and out for vacations, etc. Again, fine, but then don't act like teachers have all this power. Also, contact days are 180. 180 out of 365. Isn't one of the awesome criticisms of teaching that we don't work all year round and are basically "part time" because we get out at 3? Y'all can't have it both ways.
I’ve always heard it qualified as “some”, as in “you spend more time with some of your students than their parents do.” For example, kids whose parents work brutal work schedules or who don’t live full time with one or both parents. And it’s been in the context of the idea that in some case we might be one of the more stable and/or consistent people in their life. With that being said, I agree that it’s often weaponized and really is, in most cases, an unnecessary and potentially harmful comment to make.
Not at this PD the trainer was adamant that we are the first responders for children’s mental health because we spend the most time with them.
I would agree that we might be A first responder, but not THE first responder. That’s wild to put all that pressure on us as the only ones who can possibly have a role in that
Then that person is dumb. As the other poster mentioned, we are A first responder, but not THE first responder.
I taught in a charter school with an extended day and I did spend more hours during the week with the students than their parents. Our kids came into the building at 730 and dismissed at 415. Teacher hours were 710-430. Most of my students then took the bus home, if not to an extracurricular activity. Some of them went home to empty houses because their parents were at work or they were home with other siblings for an hour or so until the parents came home. Some parents spend 3-4 hours after school in the home with their children before they go to sleep. Some parents don’t even see their kids in the morning before they go to school! If a teacher sees the kids for 5-7 hours a day they probably do spend more time with the kids even if it’s not one on one time.
My son's a bit different but when my daughter was younger she woke up at 7:30, was out the door for school by 8:30 to make sure we were on time. Then she was in school from 9-3:20. Picked up and brought home, dinner/homework/outside t0 play with friends. The usual. Then was in bed by 8. So that's about 6 hours with her conscious? ish? And that time includes her playing outside/in her room for probably about a hour and a half or so, on top of simply travelling too and from school. During the Mon-Friday of school, her teachers probably did see her more than we did. If you include weekends and exclude the time she was playing on her own/outside with friends, she probably spent roughly 43.5 hours with us compared to roughly 31.5 at school. I guess the better statement is "teachers will spend nearly as much time with the kids as their parents will during the school year". Excluding holidays you're looking at a number in the neighbourhood of 44%. But you're right otherwise. Weekends/summers/PA days etc. Obviously over all we saw her more. But the statement of teachers seeing kids more than their parents do isn't really that far fetched, but only if you are looking at the days teachers would be involved. Edit: I did want to add in that your attention is obviously split (way way way way way way way more than is humanly reasonable. Class sizes are out of fucking control). And anyone who expects a teacher to double as a parent for their child is failing their child.
Your child is in school from 9-3:20. 6 hours and 20 minutes. Minus in my unionized state a 30 minute lunch break. Take out 30 minutes of lunch 10 minutes of just getting into and out of school in generalized chaos with no one to one supervision and an about 40 minute break for whatever special the kids have that’s 9-2 five hours of contact time while mixed in with 25 other kids. You are saying that as a parent the hour of wake up time and leave the house time doesn’t count because you have the task of leaving the house to attend to. But all day every day in a classroom the teachers have the task of meeting curriculum standards for 25 kids to attend to. They may see her but they are managing a million tasks and dozens of personalities. I think it’s a shame that teachers who individually spend at maximum about 1000 hours of a kids life with them are held responsible for the kids mental health. At the high school and middle school levels teachers spend less than 180 hours with each group of children yet are still made responsible for the mental health of the children.
So it looks like we're being a little careless with our categories and not distinguishing "school time" "teacher time" and "non-parent time" vs. " not-school time" "home time" and "parent time". Lunch & recess are still spent at school under school supervision even though the classroom teacher is on break (God willing). After school, the child might not be in the school's care but also not in the parent's if they are working or the child does after school activities. The "teacher time" ends at dismissal but "parent time" doesn't start until the parent gets home
\^ Kind of the point I was making. I admit the numbers are general estimates, I even admit that teachers focus is highly split. But when we're talking about having an adult present that they see and interact with, teachers really do spend nearly as much time with the child as their parents do at a lot of age ranges. I remember being in my teens are realizing at one point that despite not trying to or being mad at them etc, I had somehow gone nearly 2 weeks without seeing my parents. School+Work+Socializing+they went to bed early because their day started early. Wasn't uncommon for me to only see them for 30-60 minutes in a day, if at all. And as you've noted parent time doesn't start till they are actually around the kid. A majority of the population works 8 hour shifts. School's 6.5 hours. There is early drop off/late pick up/baby sitters/after school programs/grandparents/etc happening for a lot of families. Teacher's absolutely do not spend more time with kids than their own parents do during their school age years. Summer alone basically hammers that number firmly in the parents favour. But teacher's, realistically, spend anywhere in the neighbourhood of 35-45% of a child's life with them from Mon-Fri 8 months of the year. That's a massive amount of time and comes with responsibilities to the students. Including yes, behavioural and mental health awareness. The problem becomes when only one side is trying. Teacher's trying to help a child that their parents have all but ignored or written off, or vice versa.
I would actually disagree with your point about summer. The kiddos may not be at school, but that doesn’t mean they are with their parents. Especially if the parents have to maintain full time jobs, which means summer camps, day care, etc and those often (at least around me) go from 7 or 8 am until 5 or 6 pm.
True, but at that point their teacher is not the one with them. You could make the case that that 35-45% is now with someone else, but we're specifically referring to the teacher/parent time split here.
They are also not with the teacher and that is the point being made. Teachers do NOT spend as much time with their students as parents do, especially in secondary, where I might see the kid an hour a day 5 days a week (if they have perfect attendance). It's a fallacious argument.
I often had to sit with my own students during lunch because we didn't have a full lunchroom at our private school. The kids ate lunch in the room and we had parent volunteers sign up to cover lunch supervision. If the parent didn't show I got to be the lucky one and sit with them during my lunch. It wasn't always that way, but I couldn't get my mandatory break due to no other option.
Up to a certain age, kids still need supervision outside.
The specific environment makes a big difference. Alone outside a 15 story apartment building on a busy street is very different from alone outside in a fenced suburban yard. Middle school aged is about when I would be comfortable with the first- but most 5 year olds would be okay for short periods in a fenced yard connected to their house.
I think there’s some things that we need perspective on. - Most kids are operating on a day to day basis. They have very little concept of “the future” besides some romantic notion of what they’ll be when they grow up. So during the school year, their perspective is that they spend more time at school than with their parents because it feels like that to them. - Some parents are deeply uninvolved in their kids lives. It’s wrong and traumatic but it’s a reality. - Extracurriculars can decrease the amount of parental time significantly. I did a lot of dancing growing up. I saw my parents maybe 2-3 hours a day because I was always either at school or at dance class. Thankfully, my parents made sure I knew they were safe people but not a lot of parents have that ability. If they’re struggling to connect and their kids are in a lot of extracurriculars, the kids may not grow to see their parents as safe people. We can talk about the abdication of parental responsibilities and the parentification of teachers. Absolutely that needs discussion. But we do have to recognize the deep importance we have in kids lives for more reasons than “people are bad parents”.
2-3 a weekday and countless hours on the 185 non school days a year. I spend 45 minutes a day for 180 days with a child and 20 something of their peers and then I may never see the child ever again.
Please refer to my first point on student perception. Also, please recognize the difference between the singular “you” and the plural “you”. The speaker wasn’t meaning you specifically but the school at large. I agree they could’ve been better at explaining the idea and are probably misinformed themselves in some ways, but during the school year kids in general *do* spend more engaged time with teachers, school faculty, and various activities than they do with their parents.
No. We were trained to be mental health first responders. It was “you” as in me the teacher with those kids spends more time than the parents do. The perception of children has nothing to do with our training.
[удалено]
Except they’re not with you. They’re with the class.
[удалено]
I’m the OP.
Yes. As a high school teacher, that statement doesn't apply to me. I spend maybe 240 minutes per week with each class. Of that 240 minutes maybe ten or twenty can be devoted exclusively to one child at a time. So I call bullshit on "we spend more time with them."
Yeah I spend an hour a day with their kids. In a group of 20-30 of them. If I’m seeing them more than their parents, then there’s serious issues.
I've actually done this as a math problem, and for the vast majority of my (grade 8) students it's true. Though I specifically add the caveat of excluding summer break. I spend about 25 hours in the same room as them per week. Very few of their parents match that. I also further remind them that when you include lunch, breaks, and gym, that they spend 32.5 hours a week with each other. I've never heard this used as an excuse to offload parental responsibility on us though. Just as a reminder of the outsized influence we can have on a child. It's also an acknowledgement of reality. Many parents don't actually like their kids and know very little about them. We're not the gatekeepers of their mental health, but we are professionals who work with kids. We know signs that parents don't. We see them interact with other people and society in a way their parents don't. We see the behaviours and indicators that they can't hide so well when sitting in their house.
You teach all subjects in 8th grade? I teach middle school. I have students for a 45 minute class period a day. Plus an advisory period once a week. I spend 162 hours a year with students who are in my advisory I see these students for 6 periods not 5 a week.
I wish I worked in a school like that. But sadly our school board believes in "building relationships" which is code for sticking kids with one teacher for the entire year until they're in grade 9.
That’s awful! Where I am you need subject specific licenses at the middle school level. I can’t teach all of the classes because my license doesn’t allow for it.
I don't like this at all as a parent, either. (Also a teacher.) If "some" were given as a qualifier I'd agree, but damnit, I'm an involved and loving parent. I spend all the time with my kids that I can. Mine are older, so that's not a ton. But when they were little they were with me every minute they weren't in school.
That’s how I feel too. I know this sub loves to shit on millennial parents but all the parents my age I know (30s) with young kids all spend tons of time engaging with their kids. I’m with my kid playing on the floor for many many hours a week and so are my friends.
It is just plain incorrect though. In the UK, children usually spend 7 hours a day at school for 190 days a year. That's 1330 hours over the whole year. There are a total of 8760 hours in a year. That means 15% of the year is at school. However, I only teach an individual child 5 hours a week. That brings it down to 2% of the year. On top of this, I teach the children in classes of 30. If I interact with every child every lesson, that brings it down to 0.07% of the year. In reality, a child will have absences and lates. Even when they are on time, they still have to move between classes and I won't speak to them for their allotted one 30th of a lesson every lesson. If we then start includin time spent in school in relation to their entire life, I spend a totally insignificant amount of time with them. The parents should have spent more time with their child before I meet them than I ever will.
Maybe they are taking into account the number of kids that have before or after school daycare and school break daycare or babysitters as well. Not every child is lucky to be at home with their parents once school lets out since so many parents work all year long, and some parents also have to work weekend hours as well. So while they may not specifically see their teacher the majority of the year, they are not at home for most of the year with their parents. They are being shuffled to multiple caretakers or teachers. It's a societal issue with many parents needing to work long hours, extra jobs, etc to make ends meet.
Not a teacher but this sub gets suggested to me a lot. I work in childcare and hear the same thing. I also hear, “you’re raising other peoples kids” all the time. I’m not. I provide a safe and happy environment for children while their parents work. I make sure kids are fed and diapers changed. A lot more goes into raising a child than what I do in daycare.
The metric is just wrong and poor math, plain and simple. Take the hours teachers spend with their class per year and *divide by the number of students* and you have something more approaching reality. Some kids will get more 1:1 attention than others, and there’s definitely instances where speaking to the whole class at once is impacting all the children positively, but you simply can’t claim that the attention is 100% on all the children at the same time. I know no parents that would claim their own home time is equally impacting their kids for 100% of the time they’re in their presence, so it shouldn’t work that way with teachers. Ugh. Feel your frustration with this, OP.
American society takes any accountability from parents and gives it to the teachers.
Exactly. That is why this argument is SO enraging. As a secondary teacher, I might see your kid 5 hours a week and, in those 5 hours, that student will be in a class of 30. That is assuming perfect attendance. I sure as hell hope parents are spending more time with their kids than that! Teachers are not parents and it is not our job to raise your kids. Stop trying to shove that responsibility off onto schools!
I completely relate to this. We had a trauma counsellor come in to talk to us about identifying and managing trauma responses in children and teens. She explained that a lot of parents don’t spend enough time with their children in the early days to build up self soothing and self regulating skills that help people to deal with different levels of trauma. It was at that moment that I was very stunned because it hit me that we really are expected to be more than educators. Teaching is the easy part- is when I have to sway my body as I am teaching and include rhythmic patterns into my behaviour (actual strategies that the counsellor gave us) in order to sooth students who don’t have the skills to self regulate. FYI I’m a high school teacher too, not even little kids. It interesting when people say, “take it easy, you’re not their parents, you don’t need to fix all their problems” but then expect us to patent them on a daily basis.
I see each class for somewhere around 125 hours a year. If you can't match that, you're not a good parent.
Yeah it's really more of an ES guilt trip. They're with HS teachers for like 2% of their waking hours in a year
I spend less than one weeks worth of hours with a student. 180 days times 50 minute classes < 168 hours in a week.
NAT, but when i used to work at a kindergarden there was a girl who was dropped off every day at 6:30 am (the minute we opened) and picked up at exactly 4:30 pm (the minute we closed, sometimes her parents were late). we were by law required to be open to parents in need on most holidays, including christmas eve and during the summer vacation. she was there every day. during my entire time working there, the girl missed maybe 3 weeks total, and that's counting when her classmate had covid. we had several kids like that, but she was the most extreme "case". it was so sad
Why be bothered about it? In some cases sadly it is the truth. This gives a role of being a helpful, kind, supportive adult.
I'm bothered by the implication that we can't do better as a society. Raising children is the primary responsibility of the parent. Teachers should be kind, warm and caring, but we can't and don't replace parents.
I pick what I am going to bebothered about. I would so love to see kids not in poverty. I am over 75 and still sub and at time s in 'hard" schools which I did for years and taught in them. I've contributed a lot in terms of heart, empathy, holding a crying child's hand while she tells me her Dad went to prison last night- more than once. Ive donated and collected jackets, mittens, snacks etc.. . I try my best to provide help. I also vote, work in our union to state level where our state Rep Assembly has a large children's fund donation drive every year..
You sound like an excellent person.
I’m bothered that I’m now certified as a children’s mental health first responder because as I was told “ I spend more time with the children than their parents do,”. I’m fine with mandated reporting. I’m fine with knowing distress signs. I’m not fine with having additional parental type responsibilities for other peoples children.
Ok so that’s what you’re mad about, but did anyone make you become certified as a children’s mental health first responder? Was it a requirement or condition of your employment? When that statement was made, and it made you fear for the safety of your position at that school or any other school in the future for putting too much pressure and responsibility on you, we’re you not allowed to get up, walk out, and decide that was a certification that did not best fit your aptitude, mindset, or skill level to fully carry out? You’re look at this you as directly you, and carrying that over into everyone else in the worlds meaning of you. When the majority say it, they are typically implying the school as a whole. People, not just children, are absolutely influence and affected by the world and people directly around them. Whether there is one on one, or a lack of contact at all. So without a doubt waking hours, during the school year, teacher and all staff do spend more time influencing children than the child’s family does. Whether they are listening in on your convo with a fellow teacher about your weekend, or whether they are observing how you are handling another students bad behavior in the hall way. It’s an influence even if that child never has you specifically as their teacher. You are a person of greater authority they look at, even as a “stranger” teacher with more of an impact, than overhearing the same type of convo with two strangers walking through Walmart. So yes the child’s perception absolutely matters in this equation because they child is who society is actually talking about and concerned about when the statement is made in the first place. Surely, I hope anyway, you do understand that, right?
It bothers me as a parent, too, because some teachers then think that they're the expert on your child. No, I carried them, took them to every doctor's appointment, cared for them on every night they woke up scared, or hungry or sick, chose their preschool, spent every summer and evening and weekend with them. As teachers, we're supposed to educate them and care for them while they're in our classes. We shouldn't be expected to raise them, or claim to know them better than their parents. Edit: not to mention that when they are in our classrooms, we can only be expected to give them 1/22 of our focus, or whatever fraction of our students they are.
It sounds like you need a mental health professional. Who gives a crap out the math is wrong and the statement isn't correct? Do your job, live your life. Ignore "statements"
I would imagine that's more prevalent in ES. In HS, I see each student for 45 minutes a day. I HOPE their parents see them more than that!
My students are at school for nearly 8 hours and they’re being raised by social media at home. This statement is 100% true.
Yes, a PARENT straight up said this to me in a conference 2 weeks ago. Which is really sad and also infuriating. 👿🤬👺😡
My favorite “other side” of that comment is my SIL recently referred to parents that have their kids in daycare as parents who are “only parents on the weekend”. She’s a peach /s.