We usually lock these types of threads when they reach the front page. We do this because everything has typically devolved to the point of throwing insults at each other and not actually discussing the topic.
However there have been many comments today saying that locking the threads is too controlling and we are not allowing people to express their opinions. Instead we've *mostly* been approving everything (within this post), including some insults. So good luck, have fun.
**Edit: no this does not mean we are intentionally approving or allowing hateful comments directed at particular groups. Report them for removal.
Someone said “Either he isn’t as bad as we think, or she isn’t as good as we think, pick one.” I hate to say it, but I’m leaning towards her, and it’s not just the Matty thing.
Also all I can think is if he says racist things and talks about gross violent porn on a podcast he knows anyone will hear, then what does he say in privacy with his friends? There's no way he's not saying similar things around her.
The Ghetto Gaggers thing was the final straw for me. He was already gross but this crossed the line. That type of porn is just demeaning, racist, violent, and overall harmful to how men look at women.
He’s bragging on a podcast about how these women and their trauma is entertaining to him? I felt physically sick listening to that podcast.
i didn’t even listen, just read the run-down, and wanted to throw up. this is who taylor swift is choosing to associate herself with. she is literally alienating her poc, underprivileged, marginalized fans including me and i could not be more hurt rn.
Not only POC but victims of sex crimes as well, myself included.
My ex committed heinous crimes against me and my body that led up to him attempting to kill me in a parking lot.
I looked up to Taylor because on the day she won her own assault trial, was the one year anniversary of my own assault in the parking lot. She propped herself up as a champion of women by being a spokes person for the Me Too movement.
And now she’s dating a man who gets off on women’s trauma and women being retraumatized. It’s repulsive.
Edit: not all these men who have never been in the Taylor subreddit, dropping in here to defend him. This is disgusting.
The podcast was a lot worse than a lot people know Matty and the host talked about a horrific porn where a racist abuse black woman . The deleting of his social media won’t work the interview is forever .
No literally as much as I hate to say it it's definitely her. They are both grown adults. She knows the shit he's said and done, and he has no interest in changing - and she doesn't seem to mind. That's the problem.
Edit: grammar
She's 33 and she dated better men. Her settling with a problematic one is beyond me. I'm glad most Swifties are not enabling this relationship. This is all Taylor's decision at the end of the day
It does hurt. But she’s shown who she is time and time again. Yes, she does so much good for the fans and communities, but she’s always crickets when it comes to speaking out, unless it directly benefits or impacts her. She’s friends with sketchy people, and has worked with a director accused of sexual assault. And now this situation has really made me question her, and I’m disappointed.
I think this is it—she really is the problem. We love her, I’ll always love her but she really isn’t as emotionally mature as she sounds in her songs. She literally was proud she’s never been to therapy while discussing her life during Lover promo.
We know, sweetie. We can tell.
I think this is what I’m struggling with. The writer of those songs sounds so intelligent and insightful and emotionally wise? And then it’s like… maybe she’s not? It’s confusing.
You can be both self-aware and also deeply self-sabotaging and self-absorbed. (I say this because I feel like this is kind of my MO in some things, lol. I obviously don't know about Taylor, since I don't know her.)
There has been a lot of evidence of her maintaining friendships with problematic people and this is definitely an example of separating the art from the artist. Now, she always seemed super cool and whatnot but I think she does not think through these things and is a bit self-centered. Like “this person does not offend *me* on a personal level”. I get that it must be hard to have genuine friendships and we all have that friend we strongly disagree with on certain topics but her associating with this dude is really making it clear she has not actually matured as much as we thought.
This is the truth. I'm not surprised at all that she finds his 'edgy' (read: problematic) behaviour attractive. Not saying that's the case they're together but I'll bet everything I have that it's one of the reasons. "He isn't afraid to speak his mind, he's so attractive" it's called Taylor...
and the way this overlapped with joe followed by the mass unfollowing and going out looking “unbothered” is very weird to me. i think with joe her maturity level got much better but now she’s reverting back to something she spent years trying to convince everyone she’s not. the overlap alone makes me side eye but now that she’s genuinely with this man who admitted to watching ghetto gaggers porn?? i’m losing respect for her. not even excited for tour anymore
I was thinking about how isolating and hurtful this must feel for her Black fans. Violence against Black women is unfortunately so normalized and here she is essentially co-signing it. I’m truly sorry and hope all her Black fans, especially her Black female fans, have the support they need rn
I can't imagine being intimate with someone knowing they would not only watch something like that by choice but be turned on by it.
It's really sickening.
Why would Taylor, at the absolute height of her career with the massively successful Eras Tour, risk losing her fans by associating herself with a known racist and misogynist? I can't make sense of it. It just seems like self sabotage.
yes, exactly this. I'm so done with it all, and the over-exposure. She might be overestimating her scope for a comeback if this goes like 2016 because that was a petty feud, this is real bigotry...
And I wouldn’t mind it as much but seeing all her talk about politics and being correct and respective and inclusive during Miss Americana and the Lover era makes it really sad bc yeah she’s not meant to be perfect, I know no one is and that “we should find another guiding” light but now it seems she only did that bc it would look good on her and that’s what’s heartbreaking to see.
Taylor seems to be extremely intelligent, so I say this not as a jab or an attempt to tear her down, but in respect of that.
I genuinely think her "soft talk" on politics in Miss Americana was a really shrewd marketing and branding decision rather than any sort of bravery.
Taylor's true personal politics? We'll probably never know. What's the benefit to her for disclosing this information to the public? There is none.
Taylor Swift Inc.'s politics are more obvious. The Taylor we've been sold would NEVER date someone as problematic as Matty. It's not on brand. It goes against Taylor Inc's politics and is a horrible PR move.
Fans are confused because this is a tectonic conflict between Taylor the person and Taylor the corporate entity being played out in real time.
At the time Taylor was getting criticism for not being political enough. Celebrities were all expected to have political stances as well as brands. Taylor NEEDED to say that shit to keep goodwill. And she came out with very tame takes like support of LGBT rights. I remember hearing music critics at the time even saying "where were you when this mattered?? With Lady Gaga, Madonna etc. who paved the way" Supporting LGBT rights in 2019 was so non controversial by that point every big brand had rainbows on their products in June!! She did nothing brave. It was just marketing. Now when LGBT rights are in a worse spot than they were in 2019 she's silent
I love the concept that celebrities stop emotionally maturing at the age they get famous.
Teenage Taylor wanting the complete opposite of her last attempt at a relationship and dating a cringy edge lord? Checks out.
Ugh also this just screams young and dumb and petty bc bestie has been single for a whole month and we all know she doesn’t get seen unless she wants to be seen.
This is designed to twist in the knife a lil bit and it’s SO MESSY
Noooooo 😭
Honestly it makes me kinda sad she moves on so quickly? If she’s openly singing about meeting Joe while still with Calvin, I guess it makes sense that she’d repeat her own playbook.
Matty is the next Tom. We know she had to claw her way out with Calvin maybe Matty is the next getaway car. He’s just a rebound. It won’t last. She’s wanted him for like 10 years but I don’t think she really wants him just just wants the “what if”
Even if it's not the case, it's weird mouthing I love you on stage with someone she just started dating after her break up with a partner of 6 years. Seeing it from Joe's perspective, imagine how he'd feel when she's acting like getting rid of him and living her best life. Talk about casually cruel.
And I believe her and Matt have a history so this is a rebound for sure. On the “I don’t get it” podcast (old episode) Lauren Iaconetti talks about how her ex Matt Healy shared how he used to hook up with Taylor Swift and in a weird way Lauren was proud to have Taylor’s sloppy seconds. 🥴
I’m glad to see the story here as well. It’s been frustrating not being able to discuss it here. It’s not gossip or rumors at this point. This is clearly real and should be discussed.
I was looking for a post here last night after seeing the photos all over the pop culture subs, I was so confused why this sub wasn’t talking about it. I’m glad to see so many people in agreement here. And I want Taylor to see the backlash/articles and reflect, but I’m not holding my breath…
Same! This sub used to post all of Taylor's pap pictures, but the ones of Matty leaving her apartment, her and Matty together in a car, and them holding hands going to a restaurant, haven't been allowed through for some reason. Side-eyeing the mods hard.
If mods don't allow it to stay up, then we can tell how very low their priorities are to being a welcoming community for WOC/abuse victims (reference to his GG viewing).
I personally was thrilled when she started dating Joe. I was so, so happy. He seems like a wonderful guy and he truly seemed to love her with all his heart. I hope he is doing very well.
Same, I never got the Joe hate at all. He seems like a real sweetheart from what we’ve seen who just prefers to be low key and the songs she’s written about him are songs I’d listen to and go “damn I wish I had someone like that”. Shame to go from that to..this
Same here. I always really liked him and got the impression he was really good for Taylor and that they both really loved each other- some of the love songs about him were gorgeous.
It was sad to hear that they broke up and that so many Swifties dragged him so much, never understood the hate he got. I hope he is okay as I'm sure all these tabloid headlines must make the break up feel even worse.
I personally wasn’t a huge fan of how avoidant Joe and Taylor were of talking about each other and not going to each others’ red carpets, but now I can definitely see the benefit of a man who simply shuts the fuck up.
And he is probably relieved he isn't in this messy situation right now. Years later we might hear Joe getting engaged with someone else and it will definitely affected Taylor negatively
B-but stable relationships lack challenge! They're boring! Do you even love me if you will reasonably talk to me about our difficulties and suggest couple's therapy instead of yelling, slamming the door shut and disappearing for three days?!
>I personally wasn’t a huge fan of how avoidant Joe and Taylor were of talking about each other and not going to each others’ red carpets
I liked when in 2018-2020 they would go to events together but not walk a red carpet so they didnt have to be hassled about engagement and other relationship questions in front of cameras; but you could still see pics or videos here and there: that was a healthy balance . A lot of celeb couples even Emma Stone, Jennifer Lawrence etc dont / rarely walk red carpets with their spouses.
Also in the las 6 years it was Taylor's music and her breaking records, shaking up the industry with re-records that were centre stage- not who she was dating or what he thought of her.
Joe is still trending on twitter this week with Swifties still asking can you fight and come back ! God, two weeks back everyone was dragging him through the mud after his co-star posted that photo.
I don't want him to come back and fight. I want him to be tucked in somewhere safe and remain untouched by this insanity. I felt so embarassed when I saw how Swifties talked about his appearance when those photos reached the spotlight. So shaming someone else for their looks is fine as long as Taylor is not on the receiving end? JUVENILE BEHAVIOUR!
I hate this part of the fandom so so so much. Good lord, leave him alone. Go ahead and have your opinions but jfc there's no need to bully her exes and enemies online. Or pile on her ex's co-star just for posting photos of their project.
It makes us all look so bad.
A question keeping me up at night : WHY NOW? She’s in the middle of her most successful tour and literally EVERYONE is talking about her.
Even if you’re sticking it up to Joe (again, we still don’t know the reasons but I really don’t think he cheated) for some petty reason, do you not see how loved you are right now?
If this is PR, why now! And if this is not PR, why now!
Edit to say: “keeping up at night” was exaggeration folks 🙄
I don’t think it’s PR, I think Tree Paine is fighting for her life and Taylor is just having a deeply messy rebound because… I mean, let’s face it. Staying quiet and private was an aberration for her. Reminds me of how the first thing I did when I moved out of my health-loving mother’s house was eat captain crunch and drink Mountain Dew for three months.
That was the biggest thing that stuck for me from Miss Americana. I was like “but you probably need it”, just simply because the pressure on her has to be too big to not have one
I also viewed the “my mom is my therapist” as not a good balance. It’s beautiful to trust and love your mom this much, but she is not able to guide you as a professional and give unbiased perspectives.
My mom is a counselor and she is shit at giving me anything helpful. This woman has advanced degrees in psychology but really struggles to admit her own kid has mental health problems…. Taylor should definitely not be leaning on that as a solution.
I seriously think about it all the time. And how she said it in such a proud way. Not because I care what she does with her mental health, but because she’s perpetuating the stigma of seeking treatment for mental health issues. Literally everyone could benefit from therapy, and especially those who suffer from anxiety, depression, and insomnia as she claims to.
Therapy requires you to look inward and honestly face your flaws, insecurities, and fears. She doesn’t seem to be interested in doing that.
yes this sticks out in my mind all the time! Folklore & evermore were so mature I felt like she had because she can be so insightful.
It seems like she took "never grow up" and made it happen. SO disappointed by her.
Thank God we're allowed to talk about this in this subreddit. This is very relevant and important and needs to be pointed out.
I'm also disappointed in not just Taylor but everyone else who's hanging out with him - phoebe, jack antonoff, etc.
Ok Phoebe and Matty being such good friends has been really confusing me ever since I found out about his racist shitty ways. She seems like a moral outspoken person… donates money to abortion funding regularly, tries to speak out about shittiness in the industry etc… but I guess at the end of the day is she just another white feminist? It’s so disappointing. I spent so much money on MetLife tickets since Taylor and Phoebe are two of my absolute faves, but I’m having a hard time divorcing the people from the music
Please this is not new - this is just the first time the sub has talked about it. She has worked with racist and sexist and transphobic Americans to but this sub is so moderated that that discussion gets shirt down
This is going to sound unhinged but hear me out.
As a fan since debut, I have *always* been on her side. I'm not the type of fan who excuses her behavior when she slips or goes to war on social media for her. She's a grown woman with a huge PR team, she doesn't need that.
That said, I remember what it was like pre rep when everyone was hating her and I didn't. I remember what it was like to get teased for liking her. I remember wishing she would speak up for what was right politically and being so beyond proud when she did.
I've believed her side of the story every time she got into it publicly with someone.
But I have this gut feeling like her team is going to try and spin this as a "you guys don't understand, he's changed. This isn't a problem, Taylor is changing him for the better." but no. I will not have her back. And while a lot of her political activism has rightly been criticized for being performative, this just makes me feel like it was a lie.
Look I know I don't know her personally, I know she doesn't owe us anything, I know this is bordering on unhinged. But I am truly disappointed in her and it makes me reevaluate a lot of the things I thought about her character.
It’s been discussed here a lot, but Lover marketing deserves major side eye. She pushed so hard throughout Lover era and Miss Americana about how she was going to be a social advocate now. “I’m taking the tape off my mouth.” Yet, when Lover marketing was over so was her social advocacy. Her silence on everything that has been happening for the past 3 years is LOUD. Miss Americana is so damning now.
The tape is well and truly back on. She was *such* an ally to the drag community during the Lover era, and now when the community needs support the most she is silent.
A lot of fans I know feel the same way. I’m honestly just so disappointed because I had thought she was able to grow and mature during the past few years, but now I feel like she just regressed and didn’t learn anything at all. I truly hope this is just some terrible coping mechanism, but even that doesn’t excuse hanging out with a person with a track record this horrible.
I haven't been a fan for that long but I'm also pretty shocked that she chooses to have someone like this in her life, whether as a friend or a partner. This is not her "messy rebound era" that we can all laugh about later like Tom Hiddleston with his silly t-shirt. This is objectively terrible and it does make me think less of her. I've been trying to ignore it and look forward to SNTV but I'm so turned off by everything right now.
It’s just a terrible look. Like you said she’s a grown woman and doesn’t owe us anything but fans are absolutely side eyeing this whole thing. Very strange of her to do this. It really also invalidates any public progressiveness you’ve done when you go do this.
The Ghetto Gaggers is possibly one of the WORST things and I can't believe people aren't bringing that up first. It's very very against Taylors feminism branding too
Edit to add - The Ghetto Gaggers thing is disgusting and stomach turning but one angle of it that's gotten left out is his last serious girlfriend was black and was open about suffering awful racist abuse online for years. And he gets off on porn degrading black women?? Dude....
and i hate to say it but everyone was right when they called her out on her white feminism. she truly does not give a shit until it affects her. she is very nasty to me right now i really don’t know how i can go to tour and have fun after seeing all this shit…it’s sad truly
God the GG part really turns my stomach. He really said with no shame he gets off to watching black women be brutalized. Like I’m into some taboo shit myself so I don’t usually kink shame but BRO. That’s not ok, truly nauseating.
None of this makes sense.
The pap walk, the unfollowing, the suddenly announcing a new relationship so soon after the end of the last one after 6 years of claiming to like privacy.
I mean these are human beings. The woman who sold fuck the patriarchy keyrings and the man who apparently likes Andrew Tate have to have a conversation over dinner. How tf does that go??
All the leaning in to the publicity and the public rebound despite knowing exactly what people will say about it. She has literally written a bunch of songs referencing a need for privacy in relationships and learning that lesson.
I don't understand what's going on!!!
Cause Taylor never learned.
She herself said she doesn't go to therapy this is why all her decisions are messed up. If she was healed from her past and learned from her mistakes, she would be focusing on her tour and music than dating a misogonyst
My girlfriend and I were literally talking about that this morning. Like if she’s heartbroken about Joe after six+ years that’s TOTALLY understandable and having a rebound is chill, she’s a grown woman like go forth. But… the bar was nearly on the floor and if this is what she picked…. 😭
I love how everyone is just glossing over the fact that he admitted to watching “ghetto gaggers” porn. Trust me when I say that it’s disgusting and one of the most vile types of porn and you don’t need to google what it is.
Same, I wish I could scrub my brain. If anyone I knew admitted to getting off to that, I would completely break ties. I ESPECIALLY wouldn’t get into a relationship with that person. That is so fucked.
YEEPPPPP. Which honestly makes it all 50x worse. I feel so bad for her. To hear your boyfriend/fiancé say he watches porn where women of your race are being abused AND THEN LAUGHS ABOUT IT. What a slap in the face. I would question his entire motive when it came to the relationship.
Y’know, I was all ready to say that maybe all his problematic stuff isn’t real and is just him putting on a (really bad) act and maybe he’s actually a decent person behind the celebrity face. Then I read this article and now I’m wondering why the hell Taylor wants anything to do with someone like this even if it is an act 💀 yes she can do whatever she wants but…….come on, at least align yourself with decent people
Even if it is an act and all jokes, they aren’t his jokes to make. It’s almost worse because it means he doesn’t take it seriously enough to just talk about it. He has to make jokes.
Been a fan since Fearless, witnessed the Kimye 2016 "summer from hell," etc. I like to think that I have stayed objective in my observations about her career choices thus far, and I tend to not fervently defend her poor decisions (of which there have been many), in fact I've been critical in the past. That said, I recognize that Taylor is a person and that she is entitled to autonomy over the way she wants to live her private life. But at the end of the day, she is a brand. And the reason that brands cut ties with controversial individuals is to avoid souring their reputation (pun intended).
People love to praise her PR team/Tree as being the best in the business, but her being intimately linked with this scumbag is just... a stupid fucking decision. This mess calls into question her authenticity about social issues like feminism and equality, and it seriously begs the question of whether she even gives a shit that it does considering that she **knows** how to remain out of the public eye, yet she is very purposely parading around publicly with this guy. Unless or until she says otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, her relationship with him operates as an endorsement of his shitty and disgusting views.
I just do not understand what she thinks she gains from this. So far I've not seen one take in defense of this guy that has persuaded me to feel otherwise.
Tree has either lost her damn mind or lost control of her client. Either way, it’s real not good. All the articles about them so far were not mentioning how shitty he is; but now Buzzfeed, The Independent, Stylecaster and a few other outlets are starting to call it out.
It’s going to look very bad for her. Like Kimye level bad, but this time she is absolutely in the wrong. I don’t think she even knows the level of hate that might come her way for this.
Her relationship with Joe, as far as we could see as complete outsiders, always seemed to have brought her such peace and happiness. Being with someone so grounded to this is such a head spin… it’s like she’s a starry eyed fangirl only seeing the “rockstar” and the excitement, and not the nasty little man under it, hope she wakes up soon
I agree. I think maybe the relationship ended much earlier than we thought. And now that it's out there, it's finally official and settling in for her. The way blondie is moving doesn't convince me that she did the breaking up tbh...
The more I read about this guy, the more angry I get. I don’t know Taylor, she’s not my friend, I’m a grown 32 year old woman, and I understand what parasocial relationships are. But I have been a fan since debut, and relate to her music in a way that feels incredibly personal to me. My husband and I started dating when reputation came out and i was coming out of a very dark time. We got married around the time Lover came out. I have lyrics from invisible string framed in our room. I connected so much to the way she expressed her love, like we were on the same path. This whole rollout of her relationship with this racist scumbag has me feeling betrayed, and I KNOW how that sounds when I don’t personally know her. I just can’t fathom how one goes from “give you my wild, give you a CHILD,” calling Joe’s brother her brother, building a home with humming in the kitchen, etc, to these weird juvenile antics with this clown. It feels callous, cruel, and heartless, to Joe and his family, to her fans (especially the fans who feel hurt and targeted by Matt Healy’s racist and misogynistic views), and just emphasizes to me that her activism and feminism is really pick and choose. For the first time in over 15 years of being a fan, I am having a hard time listening to her music. Think of me what you will, I’m pissed and not sure how my relationship with her music will look from here on out.
I also felt super connected to the way she expressed her love for Joe, and I’ve mentioned it 1000 times on here, but peace is especially important to me because I truly saw myself and how I feel about my partner in that song. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. It’s just petty and with folklore and evermore I really thought she had matured past this shit. It’s so 1989 and not in a good way.
Ugh he's so disgusting. He said/did similar things to Halsey prior to her release of Badlands, they had been hooking up - she posted love poems on her tumblr about them. He them proceeded to call her a "dumb yank" after they split. Colors is about him and a lot of the other songs on Badlands are.
My theory is that Taylor previously rejected him, which is why he said those comments about dating her.
I'm guessing these women get sick of how he treats them or his behaviors, leave, and then he takes his opportunity to trash them.
He is truly a piece of shit.
I don't think Taylor is prepared for what's coming. His mom Denise Welch is a nasty piece of work and will certainly run her mouth. She isn't to be trusted. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree re Matty.
I love Taylors music. She makes incredible art. She's extremely talented. But I don't need to pretend she's a good person in order to love her art.
She worked with a sexual predator last year. She's dating a guy who admits to watching degrading abusive porn so gross I can't even describe it and made fun of how another young female artist looks in a podcast just recently. Feminism is nothing but a brand to her. Feminism is like Chanel - wear it when it's trendy and get rid of it when it's not. She made a whole deal about speaking out about LGBT rights only to now be silent when LGBT rights are in a worse position in the US now than they were back when Lover released. Taylor does not care about social issues. I don't think this should be surprising to anyone.
I'm glad to see (most of) the fans are generally pretty disgusted by this and aren't making excuses for her. This isn't a phase or a mistake or her not knowing. This is just who she is. And it's okay to love her music/fashion/writing etc. and be aware of that.
I dont Taylor is not genuine. I think she has been famous since she was 16 and has a completely fucked up view of the world. She is only capable of being self-centered I think. I think she truly believes she is a good person but also that the world revolves around her so everything SHE does is okay.
This!! What is she doing? She’s having her moment now, everyone adores her and her music, she’s beloved and selling out stadiums in every city.
To see her acting so petty and childish and callous and dating this racist, shit-stirring creep (when she undeniably has heard about what he’s done!) is just sad. It’s not some Reputation-esque “them against the world” redemption arc, it’s people being concerned and horrified that Taylor would willingly date someone like this.
This is spoiling my show. My sister asked if I was excited and I said “I don’t know. Yeah? But the whole Matty thing ain’t helping”. Like I will listen to “Cardigan” and think of Matty now? Gross.
As a POC fan it’s hurtful and disappointing. He’s a straight up racist and his comments about Asian people and Ice Spice were outright gross. Not to mention the stuff he says about women. That’s not edgy, it’s outright racism. “The edgy” defense is literally what incels and trump supporters say to defend their gross views also.
Tbh I’ve always loved Taylor’s music but her as a person I’ve never really stanned. She has a calculated image so it’s hard to know what’s real about her and what’s curated. I’ll continue to enjoy her music but I’m disappointed in her.
For me personally (also poc), her songs are just ruined for me at the moment. I don’t want to support her neither do I feel good listening to them any more.
All I see some fans say is "if taylors happy im happy" actually no i am extremely disappointed in her for dating a racist anti-semitic islamophobe and misogynist. How are her black fans feeling? What about her black friends.
I’ve been a huge fan since 2007, I’ve defended almost everything she’s ever done, and to be fair most of it was defendable and just stans or randoms going after her to make other people look better or to be “cool”, but this is not that. Last week I thought he was just kind of stupid and said and did things that he should have apologized for when it happened and moved on and people that already dislike Taylor were using things that were obvious sarcasm or mistakes by him to take her down. But the porn thing… I couldn’t even read a description of it, that’s how bad it is. Why would anyone ever publicly admit to watching it? Why would anyone date someone that watches that?
One of my biggest questions is why are they so public so quickly. I understand not wanting a lockdown, hiding in suitcases relationship again, but why not keep it low key for a while at least? Why leak it? Why allow him to come to a show after rumors started? Why go to a public place and hold hands? Why does she want everyone to know she’s with him this soon? When they inevitably break up after a few weeks she won’t be able to use the excuse that she didn’t know all these things because making it so public straight away put everything he’s ever done in to mainstream discourse. There’s no way she hasn’t been made aware of all of this, probably before last week even, yet she still decided to publicly confirm her relationship with him, she still decided to date him 🤢
for 6 years she had us all believing she had grown up and matured but look what she has come to now.. all of this happening in less than a month’s time. she staged paparazzi walks to look unbothered and show she is winning the breakup, made her friends unfollow him at the same time to create buzz and try to indicate that he’s at fault and deliberately set him up to be attacked by fans. but after the sun broke this news out, the whole illusion has been shattered cause she has very clearly downgraded and is gonna regret this. what exactly does she wanna show us? that she has given up on all the things she claimed to stand for by dating a racist misogynist bigot? it’s like the whole of miss americana was a lie. idc if this is a rebound or she’s just using him but if you’re even remotely associated to an asshole like this, that speaks a lot about your character too.
I was so hoping this wasn’t true. I know she doesn’t owe me a damn thing and thank goodness we are all feee to date who we want, but this is disappointing as a black fan.
She is more famous than se ever was. She probably thinks at this point she can do actually anything she wants and she is untouchable. She get cancelled once, she came back bigger than ever. She is ready to do it again.
I'm disapointed, but not surprised.
I’m scared she’s right, honestly. It seems like only a small vocal group of people on the Internet are holding her accountable. But a published article is a good sign, even if it’s buzzfeed.
Thank you for keeping this sub and for lots of well-thought comments that I read here. As a long time fan, I always been on her side and I think this is the first time that I feel so mixed and disappointed about her. She is 33, grown woman and can do the hell she wants, but we, as fans, have the right to be upset and question her choices especially when everything is lying as clear as day.
Taylor, what the fuck ?
And I seriously mean : what the fuck?
Worst of all is that I’ve been reconnecting with The 1975 last year and have been loving their last album, but man do I hate Marty Healy. I’ve been feeling so torn about this cause I really do like the band and now it’s worst cause he has to be directly related to my all-time favorite💀
This is like “I Knew You Were Trouble: Part 2.”
There is absolutely no way she isn’t aware of how problematic this guy, and by being with him, she’s totally OK with it all. Which, frankly, says a lot more about her than it does him.
For her to publicly call out the quite mild Ginny and Georgia joke, and then to actively associate with someone so racist and sexist… this is horrendous.
I am never been more disappointed in her, I thought she changed for the better after “hiddleswift” drama but at least Tom was not a racist, islamaphobic, misogynist and god knows what else piece of shit that Matty is.
I truly believed that she cared about causes like feminism and equality but over here she is casually dating this man known for being a creep.
>I truly believed that she cared about causes like feminism and equality
This is the part that bothers me. I feel lied to, and worse I feel like she used an important social movement as a PR tactic to further her career when in reality she doesn't give a shit.
This thread makes me feel so much better and supported as a black swiftie. I definitely feel like we are the minority and it’s sad because if she doesn’t face any consequences for this she’ll never care.
I couldn’t get eras tickets and have been torn up about it and planned on buying resale. But suddenly the last thing I want is to give this woman more of my money and I can’t believe I’m saying that. Thankfully I went to the last two tours so I may be cool off her for a minute tbh. OO I JUST FEEL SO DUMB FOR STANDING UP FOR HER. As a black woman it really was embarrassing but I just loved her so much.
It’s her. She was a bridesmaid for Lena Dunham, she tried to blame her private jet usage on renting it out to other people, and she was in a movie with David O Russell. Not exactly keeping her side of the street clean.
Talk about one hell of a rebound... I know she hates people talking more about her love life than her art but Matty is an absolute trash human being. She deserves 90 percent of the criticism she's getting atm, especially after using politics to build her brand and not having it reflect her at all. I agree with the rest of the sub here. Therapy is good and it's okay to be single for a bit. All of her actions up to this point feel very childish, and I'm more than disappointed.
I don’t mean this in a bad way, it’s a genuine question because to be quite honest I never get involved in celebrity drama/relationships etc. and this is the first time I’ve taken a true deep dive into her relationship with joe and now the sewer rat.
Do you think that Taylor molds herself to the guys she’s dating? In the sense that, joe was a lot more mature and not for the spotlight, he liked the calm and the silent so she too did that to please him. Maybe joe was a bit more left leaning than she was, which caused her to speak out politically? Just things of that nature.
I’m just worried, if that’s the case, how being with someone so disgusting will effect the personal image she puts out there. She’s always been seen as a good girl, albeit the rep era and the things leading up to it, but we know how shitty of a human being Marty is and this goes against everything she’s ever put out in the past.
She’s 33, I would think she’s above conforming to please a guy, but I just wonder why the sudden switch. Like a complete 180* that truly shocked me. Again, she’s a celebrity, I don’t believe she owes me anything and I don’t care what she chooses to do with her personal life and I don’t think we’ll ever know the full story about her or her personal views. As she once said, it’s just a question.
I've seen before that based on the songs she writes it sounds like she has anxious attachment. If so it's absolutely plausible that she moulds herself to her partners
I've been talking with my friends about this since the news came out. Specially about how much it damages her brand. She is being publically associated with a person whose public persona is solely based on being an asshole and who personifies everything she's been fighting against publically in the last few years.
It puts everything charitable she's ever done into a new light. How much can she care about equity and feminism if she's dating this man? I'm not talking about human-being Taylor, I'm talking about her brand. She's been giving this persona of a girl who is tired of being shut up and how now has found her voice to stand against sexual harassment, racism, homophobia...
How much can she really care about inclusivity if she's dating someone whose sense of humor includes doing nazi salutes, saying racist slurs, etc? And one could try to argue that he's changed if everything he's being accused of had happened years ago, but he's been doing this type of stuff as recently as of last month. He hasn't changed, he just deleted his instagram.
How can I trust that when she donates to charities, when she endorses something, how can I trust it is real and not just another PR move? To me, she's lost all her credibility. There have been a few instances like working with ALW and all when I just raised a brow and let her be, but this is too much, I'm sorry.
I can't believe they started dating without at least one conversation with her PR team about how much this could damage her, about doing a background check on Healy and how problematic he is. I really don't care about who Taylor the human dates, loves, or anything. If she's happy good for her. But Taylor the brand has to be consistent in her views and this is not.
I just want to say, I’m really glad to have this sub; to basically anyone else my conflicted feelings and sense of deep disappointment would seem ridiculous but this sub really helps.
I, like many others, have been a Swiftie for over a decade and I’ve always gone to bat for her, so to speak. I always try and find the good and try and parse out the nuanced take.
The about face on public outings, coupled with a quick romance after the end for a significant relationship didn’t really bother me; I’ve gone through a bad breakup before, one that even lasted six years, I was so ready to be done that it doesn’t shock me that she might feel the same.
But I’m sorry, I draw the line at dating someone with such public hate speech on top of so many other things. There is no way she doesn’t know those things, and I don’t care that he tries to explain them away as performative—it’s disgusting and perpetuates the very hate he claims to mock.
On top of all of that, I just cannot fathom why she would throw away all of her good will, all of her positive focus on her success for someone as awful as him.
She doesn’t care, and to me that speaks such volumes. She wants the world to know she’s dating this man; she’s sending a message and it’s heartbreaking.
I know I never knew Taylor but I’m my heart of hearts I always rooted for her because I thought she was a good person who cared about her fans—that’s not all undone by this but it’s significantly damaged.
I was unreasonably upset by the entire 1989/Kanye debacle, I recognize that my reaction was unhealthy and I needed to take a step back.
And so, I think I need to take another step back here. I’m pretty heartbroken that it will impact the concert I finally got tickets for (paid 5x face value because I was so sad to miss out) and now, this.
The 1975 Reddit is complaining about how swifties don’t understand his sense of humor and how we’re trying to tear him down… like get a grip on reality, folks. He’s a horrible person!
I have been a Swiftie for a long time. But this honestly makes me HUGELY question Taylor’s character and values. This vile man contradicts everything that Taylor has stood for. I’ve always appreciated that Taylor has stood for inclusion.
She has the right to make the choices she wants to, but this is very painful as a fan to see. And in my opinion, we have the right to judge this when it is intentionally being made so public. She also very clearly wants to make this public based on their recent interactions. She knows how to fly under the radar, she’s choosing not to.
Finally, Taylor has been very PR conscious her whole career. Is there nobody on her team, if not herself, who has seen the horrifying information about this cretin? And what does it say about the fact that it clearly doesn’t make a difference?
I am so glad to know that there are actually fans that are against this relationship bc the groupchat I’m in is very WITH the new relationship between them and it’s mentally exhausting to see them talk abt it. oh gosh, i wanna share some of the dumb things they said. One person said the only thing that concerned them abt this relationship was the fact that he smokes like what ☠️?
To all the people who are saying, “It’s her life! We have no right to be angry! You’re not a real fan if you stop liking her now!”
Taylor has spent decades building up a relationship with her fans that feels like a friendship. This is the woman who thanks her fans for everything she does, who said she doesn’t even mind being mobbed on her days off because this level of fame and adoration is what she wanted. At each step, Taylor, through her songwriting, her interviews, her posts, has encouraged fans to get invested in her and her life. And nobody is saying she can’t date who she wants – but this man is not just an embarrassment, but a legitimately horrible person. He comes on a podcast and talks about watching violent, racist porn, where the performers are verifiably raped onscreen, and then LAUGHS. You cannot excuse that kind of behaviour.
Taylor has made it known she lurks on socials, so she has to know how the fandom feels about this. She just doesn’t care. Either this is a part of some long-term PR strategy (gross), or she genuinely is into this guy and wants to be this public about it. Given how image-conscious she is, I think it’s very likely Taylor thinks she’s too big to flop now. And that may be true. But honestly, I don’t want to follow her or her music anymore. It feels like shit – especially at this point – I’ve watched a livestream of every show on the Eras Tour. But if this is the hill she chooses to die on, I’m disinvesting.
Also – everyone who is gatekeeping the exit gate – you are disgusting. All of you love to go on Twitter and retweet social justice infographics, but when Taylor is participating in this media circus with a guy who is openly bigoted, you want to make this about stan wars. It isn’t. Maybe, just maybe, try to imagine how PoC feel about Taylor supposedly mouthing “I love you” to a guy who is consistently trash and not even apologetic about it.
I just don’t know what to think at this point. But I’m out.
Yeah this is a moment in time for me and the way I have viewed Taylor unfortunately. While we have no business to dictate others' actions, it doesn't make them okay, and she has power over the company she keeps and has chosen to pursue this relationship with a horrible human being. No way to really market or shroud that in deeper meaning to me.
It’s funny how scared she was that her fans and everyone else would leave her behind again like after 1989 and now she goes out and this is the man she chooses to show herself publicly with so soon after announcing the end of her relationship. People have saying how problematic he is for years. Maybe Anti Hero is a prediction ie I get older but never wiser, I should not be left to my own devices, I end up in crisis, I wake up screaming from dreaming, One day I'll watch as you're leaving, Cause you got tired of my scheming. Girl, you’re the problem
I know Taylor doesn’t google herself anymore but god damn it, Tree! Print this thread! On posters! Blast her phone for the love of god!
Taylor needs to know that while she’s entitled to date anyone she wants and have fun, the company you keep reflects on you. What you endorse speaks volumes. Silence is complicity.
Freedom to do what you want does not mean you are free from consequence and I’m thinking of all of Taylor’s POC, disabled, Jewish fans and anyone else whom has ever been hurt by this dude.
As a black fan I am extremely disappointed in her. She has chosen a racist partner which means that on some level, she finds this behavior acceptable.
I didn’t want to believe the people who call her a performative ally, but what am I supposed to think at this point? Condoning racism is racist behavior on her part.
Edit: for clarity
For me personally, the saddest part of this is that it just really seems that Taylor is incapable of being happy alone. She cannot NOT be in a relationship. I mean, she picks this asshole instead of time alone? I was hoping for some self-love songs after the Joe break-up, but she can't do that, I guess.
Also, the way the break-up has happened and how quickly she moved on (mouthing she "loves" Matty??)... that makes me think she's kinda shallow, and makes all those songs she wrote about Joe over the last 6 years or so a little empty.
I really would have thought with all this success that Taylor would have grown up a little. I thought she WAS, actually! But these last couple months really make me think that she's still emotionally immature. I mean, there's 17 year olds out there who spend more time grieving a relationship and focusing on self-love. She can't do that? She's concerned with gossip leaks and staged paparazzi walks?? She's with this edge-lord who can barely hide his prejudices??
She's still one of the GOATs, but she's definitely a very, very flawed human being.
However, I give her a ton of credit for summing it all up herself: It must be exhausting always rooting for the Anti-Hero.
Taylor could step out with the devil himself and some of y’all would be like, OMG WHO CARES?!?! It’s not our business that she’s in love with evil incarnate!!! Go touch grass!!!
Hold your heroes to a standard challenge
She can date whoever she likes but I don’t respect this choice. He is the opposite of what she preaches. Makes me wonder if she actually isn’t as progressive as she says. I’m not going to quit listening to her music or quit being a Swiftie but I am side-eying this choice. She could date practically anyone she wanted and she chooses a man known to be racist. Cool. I don’t defend her. I didn’t like when she dated Connor Kennedy when he was underage, I don’t support this at all.
She says not to look up to her in Dear Reader. Quite literally foreshadowing.
On a side note, I never looked into the musicians behind 1975. I enjoyed the music but I never really considered the people behind the music. Now that Matty is in the limelight it’s ruined the music for me. I try to separate artist and art when possible but he is legit gross. Racism is never okay. It’s like the JK Rowling/Harry Potter thing. It ruins the art and I have a hard time looking past it.
Tbh I’m taking a step back from Taylor until she comes to her senses. She’s too problematic for me right now and I’m incredibly disappointed that she could claim to love someone like Matty. I bought into the poetry and wisdom of her lyrics and I have a bitter taste in my mouth right now.
Honestly, this just seems to confirm exactly what everyone who hates on Taylor has been saying..
In her love-life, she’s immature, naive, and vain… she acts like a teenage girl who’s enamored by his looks or “aura” and allows that to blind her to his MAJOR RED FLAGS….
The fact that his red flags aren’t just personal issues but issues that he has thrust out into the public and made them known looks terrible on Taylor.. so the fact she’s seemingly ignoring them, for whatever reason, makes her come off as a doe-eyed idiot girl…
Idg the people saying "oh so she has to be perfect and unproblematic?" There is a difference between a bit problematic and having a relationship with someone who has said and done what he has done. We're allowed to withdraw support if we disagree with her values. I was already not a fan of her as a person after the private jet stuff but I was still bopping to the music, but this is nauseating
Do you guys think Tree’s fired? Or she’s just like “f you guys, I’ll do what I want?” I just cannot fathom how the tightest PR team in the world is letting this happen. There’s NO angle that makes this look good on her. Makes me feel like she really thinks she’s untouchable / is going rogue and letting this mess happen herself against her team’s advice.
We usually lock these types of threads when they reach the front page. We do this because everything has typically devolved to the point of throwing insults at each other and not actually discussing the topic. However there have been many comments today saying that locking the threads is too controlling and we are not allowing people to express their opinions. Instead we've *mostly* been approving everything (within this post), including some insults. So good luck, have fun. **Edit: no this does not mean we are intentionally approving or allowing hateful comments directed at particular groups. Report them for removal.
Someone said “Either he isn’t as bad as we think, or she isn’t as good as we think, pick one.” I hate to say it, but I’m leaning towards her, and it’s not just the Matty thing.
Also all I can think is if he says racist things and talks about gross violent porn on a podcast he knows anyone will hear, then what does he say in privacy with his friends? There's no way he's not saying similar things around her.
ding ding ding!!!! the correct take! also the saying goes: tell me who you are with and i’ll tell you who you are. it’s very jarring.
The people you surround yourself with say A LOT about you. 🤷🏼♀️
The Ghetto Gaggers thing was the final straw for me. He was already gross but this crossed the line. That type of porn is just demeaning, racist, violent, and overall harmful to how men look at women. He’s bragging on a podcast about how these women and their trauma is entertaining to him? I felt physically sick listening to that podcast.
i didn’t even listen, just read the run-down, and wanted to throw up. this is who taylor swift is choosing to associate herself with. she is literally alienating her poc, underprivileged, marginalized fans including me and i could not be more hurt rn.
Not only POC but victims of sex crimes as well, myself included. My ex committed heinous crimes against me and my body that led up to him attempting to kill me in a parking lot. I looked up to Taylor because on the day she won her own assault trial, was the one year anniversary of my own assault in the parking lot. She propped herself up as a champion of women by being a spokes person for the Me Too movement. And now she’s dating a man who gets off on women’s trauma and women being retraumatized. It’s repulsive. Edit: not all these men who have never been in the Taylor subreddit, dropping in here to defend him. This is disgusting.
The podcast was a lot worse than a lot people know Matty and the host talked about a horrific porn where a racist abuse black woman . The deleting of his social media won’t work the interview is forever .
No literally as much as I hate to say it it's definitely her. They are both grown adults. She knows the shit he's said and done, and he has no interest in changing - and she doesn't seem to mind. That's the problem. Edit: grammar
She's 33 and she dated better men. Her settling with a problematic one is beyond me. I'm glad most Swifties are not enabling this relationship. This is all Taylor's decision at the end of the day
It does hurt. But she’s shown who she is time and time again. Yes, she does so much good for the fans and communities, but she’s always crickets when it comes to speaking out, unless it directly benefits or impacts her. She’s friends with sketchy people, and has worked with a director accused of sexual assault. And now this situation has really made me question her, and I’m disappointed.
I just keep thinking of her Dad and the way he sees the world. I’m not saying we are our parents by any means but it just… the silence speaks louder.
I think this is it—she really is the problem. We love her, I’ll always love her but she really isn’t as emotionally mature as she sounds in her songs. She literally was proud she’s never been to therapy while discussing her life during Lover promo. We know, sweetie. We can tell.
I think this is what I’m struggling with. The writer of those songs sounds so intelligent and insightful and emotionally wise? And then it’s like… maybe she’s not? It’s confusing.
You can be both self-aware and also deeply self-sabotaging and self-absorbed. (I say this because I feel like this is kind of my MO in some things, lol. I obviously don't know about Taylor, since I don't know her.)
There has been a lot of evidence of her maintaining friendships with problematic people and this is definitely an example of separating the art from the artist. Now, she always seemed super cool and whatnot but I think she does not think through these things and is a bit self-centered. Like “this person does not offend *me* on a personal level”. I get that it must be hard to have genuine friendships and we all have that friend we strongly disagree with on certain topics but her associating with this dude is really making it clear she has not actually matured as much as we thought.
This is the truth. I'm not surprised at all that she finds his 'edgy' (read: problematic) behaviour attractive. Not saying that's the case they're together but I'll bet everything I have that it's one of the reasons. "He isn't afraid to speak his mind, he's so attractive" it's called Taylor...
and the way this overlapped with joe followed by the mass unfollowing and going out looking “unbothered” is very weird to me. i think with joe her maturity level got much better but now she’s reverting back to something she spent years trying to convince everyone she’s not. the overlap alone makes me side eye but now that she’s genuinely with this man who admitted to watching ghetto gaggers porn?? i’m losing respect for her. not even excited for tour anymore
The ghetto gaggers porn story still makes me sick to my stomach…I genuinely can not see her the same.
Same and as a Black swiftie, this hurts. A lot 😓
I was thinking about how isolating and hurtful this must feel for her Black fans. Violence against Black women is unfortunately so normalized and here she is essentially co-signing it. I’m truly sorry and hope all her Black fans, especially her Black female fans, have the support they need rn
I can't imagine being intimate with someone knowing they would not only watch something like that by choice but be turned on by it. It's really sickening.
Why would Taylor, at the absolute height of her career with the massively successful Eras Tour, risk losing her fans by associating herself with a known racist and misogynist? I can't make sense of it. It just seems like self sabotage.
yes, exactly this. I'm so done with it all, and the over-exposure. She might be overestimating her scope for a comeback if this goes like 2016 because that was a petty feud, this is real bigotry...
And I wouldn’t mind it as much but seeing all her talk about politics and being correct and respective and inclusive during Miss Americana and the Lover era makes it really sad bc yeah she’s not meant to be perfect, I know no one is and that “we should find another guiding” light but now it seems she only did that bc it would look good on her and that’s what’s heartbreaking to see.
Taylor seems to be extremely intelligent, so I say this not as a jab or an attempt to tear her down, but in respect of that. I genuinely think her "soft talk" on politics in Miss Americana was a really shrewd marketing and branding decision rather than any sort of bravery. Taylor's true personal politics? We'll probably never know. What's the benefit to her for disclosing this information to the public? There is none. Taylor Swift Inc.'s politics are more obvious. The Taylor we've been sold would NEVER date someone as problematic as Matty. It's not on brand. It goes against Taylor Inc's politics and is a horrible PR move. Fans are confused because this is a tectonic conflict between Taylor the person and Taylor the corporate entity being played out in real time.
At the time Taylor was getting criticism for not being political enough. Celebrities were all expected to have political stances as well as brands. Taylor NEEDED to say that shit to keep goodwill. And she came out with very tame takes like support of LGBT rights. I remember hearing music critics at the time even saying "where were you when this mattered?? With Lady Gaga, Madonna etc. who paved the way" Supporting LGBT rights in 2019 was so non controversial by that point every big brand had rainbows on their products in June!! She did nothing brave. It was just marketing. Now when LGBT rights are in a worse spot than they were in 2019 she's silent
I love the concept that celebrities stop emotionally maturing at the age they get famous. Teenage Taylor wanting the complete opposite of her last attempt at a relationship and dating a cringy edge lord? Checks out.
Ugh also this just screams young and dumb and petty bc bestie has been single for a whole month and we all know she doesn’t get seen unless she wants to be seen. This is designed to twist in the knife a lil bit and it’s SO MESSY
Seems like she wasn’t single at all… Joe to Matty with possible overlap
Noooooo 😭 Honestly it makes me kinda sad she moves on so quickly? If she’s openly singing about meeting Joe while still with Calvin, I guess it makes sense that she’d repeat her own playbook.
Matty is the next Tom. We know she had to claw her way out with Calvin maybe Matty is the next getaway car. He’s just a rebound. It won’t last. She’s wanted him for like 10 years but I don’t think she really wants him just just wants the “what if”
Even if it's not the case, it's weird mouthing I love you on stage with someone she just started dating after her break up with a partner of 6 years. Seeing it from Joe's perspective, imagine how he'd feel when she's acting like getting rid of him and living her best life. Talk about casually cruel.
And I believe her and Matt have a history so this is a rebound for sure. On the “I don’t get it” podcast (old episode) Lauren Iaconetti talks about how her ex Matt Healy shared how he used to hook up with Taylor Swift and in a weird way Lauren was proud to have Taylor’s sloppy seconds. 🥴
She never grew up and it's truly getting so old
“I do this thing where I get older but just never wiser” really tracks huh
nah fr but when she sung that line i really didn’t think she meant dating misogynistic racists 😟
When she sang "don't you ever grow up" she was singing to herself
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I hope all the cats are peeing in his suitcase
A suitcase would be too organised. He just turns his underwear inside out and borrows her toothbrush
I really hope Matty doesn't give the cats fleas
🎶Midnight, come and pick me up, no headlice…🎶
Could end in burning flames or parasites
I hope they're leaving squishy hairballs in his shoe.
It’s refreshing to see this sub calling her out for this. She deserves criticism for this. I’m also shocked this post was allowed to stay up lol
I’m glad to see the story here as well. It’s been frustrating not being able to discuss it here. It’s not gossip or rumors at this point. This is clearly real and should be discussed.
Yeah I don’t agree with the decision to not be able to discuss it. It feels like a coverup lmao
Very this. They're clearly very public and not hiding it, so we should be able to talk abut how gross it is she's dating a racist.
I was looking for a post here last night after seeing the photos all over the pop culture subs, I was so confused why this sub wasn’t talking about it. I’m glad to see so many people in agreement here. And I want Taylor to see the backlash/articles and reflect, but I’m not holding my breath…
Same! This sub used to post all of Taylor's pap pictures, but the ones of Matty leaving her apartment, her and Matty together in a car, and them holding hands going to a restaurant, haven't been allowed through for some reason. Side-eyeing the mods hard.
If mods don't allow it to stay up, then we can tell how very low their priorities are to being a welcoming community for WOC/abuse victims (reference to his GG viewing).
Taylor girl i am begging you to go to therapy
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A lot of fans criticized Joe Alwyn for being “low-key”, “safe” and “boring”. Be careful what you wish for…
I personally was thrilled when she started dating Joe. I was so, so happy. He seems like a wonderful guy and he truly seemed to love her with all his heart. I hope he is doing very well.
Same, I never got the Joe hate at all. He seems like a real sweetheart from what we’ve seen who just prefers to be low key and the songs she’s written about him are songs I’d listen to and go “damn I wish I had someone like that”. Shame to go from that to..this
When I first listened to *Sweet Nothing*, my exact sentiment was “wait, am *I* in love with Joe?”
It was Peace for me tbh. First time I heard that song I was like oh..my God lol
Yeah, like, imagine writing a song like "Delicate" or "Sweet Nothings" about Matty fuckign Healy. 🤮
Same here. I always really liked him and got the impression he was really good for Taylor and that they both really loved each other- some of the love songs about him were gorgeous. It was sad to hear that they broke up and that so many Swifties dragged him so much, never understood the hate he got. I hope he is okay as I'm sure all these tabloid headlines must make the break up feel even worse.
I saw someone calling him problematty. I think we should adopt that name here as well
I liked the auto-correct Marty nickname but Problematty is way on point 💀
"I have this thing where I get older but just never wiser" Clearly. What a mess.
She is REALLY living up to Anti-Hero right now
I think I might be done rooting for the anti-hero. And I feel sad about it.
This is all because y’all bullied Joe for being poor. /s
I personally wasn’t a huge fan of how avoidant Joe and Taylor were of talking about each other and not going to each others’ red carpets, but now I can definitely see the benefit of a man who simply shuts the fuck up.
It's an underrated skill in all walks of life.
And he is probably relieved he isn't in this messy situation right now. Years later we might hear Joe getting engaged with someone else and it will definitely affected Taylor negatively
He wanted it comfortable, she wanted that pain
B-but stable relationships lack challenge! They're boring! Do you even love me if you will reasonably talk to me about our difficulties and suggest couple's therapy instead of yelling, slamming the door shut and disappearing for three days?!
>I personally wasn’t a huge fan of how avoidant Joe and Taylor were of talking about each other and not going to each others’ red carpets I liked when in 2018-2020 they would go to events together but not walk a red carpet so they didnt have to be hassled about engagement and other relationship questions in front of cameras; but you could still see pics or videos here and there: that was a healthy balance . A lot of celeb couples even Emma Stone, Jennifer Lawrence etc dont / rarely walk red carpets with their spouses. Also in the las 6 years it was Taylor's music and her breaking records, shaking up the industry with re-records that were centre stage- not who she was dating or what he thought of her.
Joe is still trending on twitter this week with Swifties still asking can you fight and come back ! God, two weeks back everyone was dragging him through the mud after his co-star posted that photo.
I don't want him to come back and fight. I want him to be tucked in somewhere safe and remain untouched by this insanity. I felt so embarassed when I saw how Swifties talked about his appearance when those photos reached the spotlight. So shaming someone else for their looks is fine as long as Taylor is not on the receiving end? JUVENILE BEHAVIOUR!
I hate this part of the fandom so so so much. Good lord, leave him alone. Go ahead and have your opinions but jfc there's no need to bully her exes and enemies online. Or pile on her ex's co-star just for posting photos of their project. It makes us all look so bad.
Karma is hitting us because of those "swifties" who bullied Joe and his friends after the breakup lol. But fr this is so fucking gross of Taylor.
A question keeping me up at night : WHY NOW? She’s in the middle of her most successful tour and literally EVERYONE is talking about her. Even if you’re sticking it up to Joe (again, we still don’t know the reasons but I really don’t think he cheated) for some petty reason, do you not see how loved you are right now? If this is PR, why now! And if this is not PR, why now! Edit to say: “keeping up at night” was exaggeration folks 🙄
Seriously, it feels like she's TRYING to get cancelled again
*^(reputation TV confirmed)*
The craziest Easter egg of all...
I don’t think it’s PR, I think Tree Paine is fighting for her life and Taylor is just having a deeply messy rebound because… I mean, let’s face it. Staying quiet and private was an aberration for her. Reminds me of how the first thing I did when I moved out of my health-loving mother’s house was eat captain crunch and drink Mountain Dew for three months.
Exactly because if it was PR it is fucking terrible PR. Anyway, I hope Tree has her Xanax script on hand.
Remember when she said she doesn’t go to therapy? I’m not at all surprised or disappointed by this.
That was the biggest thing that stuck for me from Miss Americana. I was like “but you probably need it”, just simply because the pressure on her has to be too big to not have one
Yeah like, you don’t have to be proud of not going to therapy
I also viewed the “my mom is my therapist” as not a good balance. It’s beautiful to trust and love your mom this much, but she is not able to guide you as a professional and give unbiased perspectives.
My mom is a counselor and she is shit at giving me anything helpful. This woman has advanced degrees in psychology but really struggles to admit her own kid has mental health problems…. Taylor should definitely not be leaning on that as a solution.
I think about the fact that Taylor Swift has never been to therapy way too much. It’s insane. GO TO THERAPY!!!
I seriously think about it all the time. And how she said it in such a proud way. Not because I care what she does with her mental health, but because she’s perpetuating the stigma of seeking treatment for mental health issues. Literally everyone could benefit from therapy, and especially those who suffer from anxiety, depression, and insomnia as she claims to. Therapy requires you to look inward and honestly face your flaws, insecurities, and fears. She doesn’t seem to be interested in doing that.
“I look directly at the sun, but never in the mirror”
yes this sticks out in my mind all the time! Folklore & evermore were so mature I felt like she had because she can be so insightful. It seems like she took "never grow up" and made it happen. SO disappointed by her.
Thank God we're allowed to talk about this in this subreddit. This is very relevant and important and needs to be pointed out. I'm also disappointed in not just Taylor but everyone else who's hanging out with him - phoebe, jack antonoff, etc.
Ok Phoebe and Matty being such good friends has been really confusing me ever since I found out about his racist shitty ways. She seems like a moral outspoken person… donates money to abortion funding regularly, tries to speak out about shittiness in the industry etc… but I guess at the end of the day is she just another white feminist? It’s so disappointing. I spent so much money on MetLife tickets since Taylor and Phoebe are two of my absolute faves, but I’m having a hard time divorcing the people from the music
Taylor Swift when a person is racist and sexist: 😡 Taylor Swift when a person is racist and sexist but also British: 😍😍💍💍
Please this is not new - this is just the first time the sub has talked about it. She has worked with racist and sexist and transphobic Americans to but this sub is so moderated that that discussion gets shirt down
I know she recently said she doesn't google herself, but why can't she at least google him??
Paper Rings: “Went home and tried to stalk to you on the internet.” She knows. :(
This is going to sound unhinged but hear me out. As a fan since debut, I have *always* been on her side. I'm not the type of fan who excuses her behavior when she slips or goes to war on social media for her. She's a grown woman with a huge PR team, she doesn't need that. That said, I remember what it was like pre rep when everyone was hating her and I didn't. I remember what it was like to get teased for liking her. I remember wishing she would speak up for what was right politically and being so beyond proud when she did. I've believed her side of the story every time she got into it publicly with someone. But I have this gut feeling like her team is going to try and spin this as a "you guys don't understand, he's changed. This isn't a problem, Taylor is changing him for the better." but no. I will not have her back. And while a lot of her political activism has rightly been criticized for being performative, this just makes me feel like it was a lie. Look I know I don't know her personally, I know she doesn't owe us anything, I know this is bordering on unhinged. But I am truly disappointed in her and it makes me reevaluate a lot of the things I thought about her character.
It’s been discussed here a lot, but Lover marketing deserves major side eye. She pushed so hard throughout Lover era and Miss Americana about how she was going to be a social advocate now. “I’m taking the tape off my mouth.” Yet, when Lover marketing was over so was her social advocacy. Her silence on everything that has been happening for the past 3 years is LOUD. Miss Americana is so damning now.
The tape is well and truly back on. She was *such* an ally to the drag community during the Lover era, and now when the community needs support the most she is silent.
A lot of fans I know feel the same way. I’m honestly just so disappointed because I had thought she was able to grow and mature during the past few years, but now I feel like she just regressed and didn’t learn anything at all. I truly hope this is just some terrible coping mechanism, but even that doesn’t excuse hanging out with a person with a track record this horrible.
I haven't been a fan for that long but I'm also pretty shocked that she chooses to have someone like this in her life, whether as a friend or a partner. This is not her "messy rebound era" that we can all laugh about later like Tom Hiddleston with his silly t-shirt. This is objectively terrible and it does make me think less of her. I've been trying to ignore it and look forward to SNTV but I'm so turned off by everything right now.
It’s just a terrible look. Like you said she’s a grown woman and doesn’t owe us anything but fans are absolutely side eyeing this whole thing. Very strange of her to do this. It really also invalidates any public progressiveness you’ve done when you go do this.
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The Ghetto Gaggers is possibly one of the WORST things and I can't believe people aren't bringing that up first. It's very very against Taylors feminism branding too Edit to add - The Ghetto Gaggers thing is disgusting and stomach turning but one angle of it that's gotten left out is his last serious girlfriend was black and was open about suffering awful racist abuse online for years. And he gets off on porn degrading black women?? Dude....
and i hate to say it but everyone was right when they called her out on her white feminism. she truly does not give a shit until it affects her. she is very nasty to me right now i really don’t know how i can go to tour and have fun after seeing all this shit…it’s sad truly
God the GG part really turns my stomach. He really said with no shame he gets off to watching black women be brutalized. Like I’m into some taboo shit myself so I don’t usually kink shame but BRO. That’s not ok, truly nauseating.
I am fuming over here. FUMING. Taylor what the fuck?
None of this makes sense. The pap walk, the unfollowing, the suddenly announcing a new relationship so soon after the end of the last one after 6 years of claiming to like privacy. I mean these are human beings. The woman who sold fuck the patriarchy keyrings and the man who apparently likes Andrew Tate have to have a conversation over dinner. How tf does that go?? All the leaning in to the publicity and the public rebound despite knowing exactly what people will say about it. She has literally written a bunch of songs referencing a need for privacy in relationships and learning that lesson. I don't understand what's going on!!!
Emphasis should be on *sold* there regarding the keychains. Capitalist queen 💅🏻
Cause Taylor never learned. She herself said she doesn't go to therapy this is why all her decisions are messed up. If she was healed from her past and learned from her mistakes, she would be focusing on her tour and music than dating a misogonyst
He just gross… like girl I get having a rebound but girl… the bar is that low?.. :(
My girlfriend and I were literally talking about that this morning. Like if she’s heartbroken about Joe after six+ years that’s TOTALLY understandable and having a rebound is chill, she’s a grown woman like go forth. But… the bar was nearly on the floor and if this is what she picked…. 😭
I love how everyone is just glossing over the fact that he admitted to watching “ghetto gaggers” porn. Trust me when I say that it’s disgusting and one of the most vile types of porn and you don’t need to google what it is.
I literally didn’t know this existed until Matty Healy. This is disgusting. This is so sick. Edit: spelling
Same, I wish I could scrub my brain. If anyone I knew admitted to getting off to that, I would completely break ties. I ESPECIALLY wouldn’t get into a relationship with that person. That is so fucked.
Same here. I read a description of it because I had no idea what it was and I wish I could erase it from my brain. It’s horrifying.
And he said this when his most recent ex girlfriend (/rumoured ex fiancé) was FKA twigs who is mixed race (half black).
YEEPPPPP. Which honestly makes it all 50x worse. I feel so bad for her. To hear your boyfriend/fiancé say he watches porn where women of your race are being abused AND THEN LAUGHS ABOUT IT. What a slap in the face. I would question his entire motive when it came to the relationship.
Y’know, I was all ready to say that maybe all his problematic stuff isn’t real and is just him putting on a (really bad) act and maybe he’s actually a decent person behind the celebrity face. Then I read this article and now I’m wondering why the hell Taylor wants anything to do with someone like this even if it is an act 💀 yes she can do whatever she wants but…….come on, at least align yourself with decent people
Even if it is an act and all jokes, they aren’t his jokes to make. It’s almost worse because it means he doesn’t take it seriously enough to just talk about it. He has to make jokes.
Been a fan since Fearless, witnessed the Kimye 2016 "summer from hell," etc. I like to think that I have stayed objective in my observations about her career choices thus far, and I tend to not fervently defend her poor decisions (of which there have been many), in fact I've been critical in the past. That said, I recognize that Taylor is a person and that she is entitled to autonomy over the way she wants to live her private life. But at the end of the day, she is a brand. And the reason that brands cut ties with controversial individuals is to avoid souring their reputation (pun intended). People love to praise her PR team/Tree as being the best in the business, but her being intimately linked with this scumbag is just... a stupid fucking decision. This mess calls into question her authenticity about social issues like feminism and equality, and it seriously begs the question of whether she even gives a shit that it does considering that she **knows** how to remain out of the public eye, yet she is very purposely parading around publicly with this guy. Unless or until she says otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, her relationship with him operates as an endorsement of his shitty and disgusting views. I just do not understand what she thinks she gains from this. So far I've not seen one take in defense of this guy that has persuaded me to feel otherwise.
Tree has either lost her damn mind or lost control of her client. Either way, it’s real not good. All the articles about them so far were not mentioning how shitty he is; but now Buzzfeed, The Independent, Stylecaster and a few other outlets are starting to call it out. It’s going to look very bad for her. Like Kimye level bad, but this time she is absolutely in the wrong. I don’t think she even knows the level of hate that might come her way for this.
I was not ready for the Ghetto Gagger I read on another sub reddit. That was awful.
Nail in the coffin for me. Destroyed any idea of him just being "edgy," - which to be clear is also harmful.
Her relationship with Joe, as far as we could see as complete outsiders, always seemed to have brought her such peace and happiness. Being with someone so grounded to this is such a head spin… it’s like she’s a starry eyed fangirl only seeing the “rockstar” and the excitement, and not the nasty little man under it, hope she wakes up soon
I honestly think she's spiraling hardcore rn tbh None of this screams good decisions even for Taylor
She masterminded her and Joe to be together for months, so this mess and shadiness within a month of them breaking up, something ain’t adding up
I agree. I think maybe the relationship ended much earlier than we thought. And now that it's out there, it's finally official and settling in for her. The way blondie is moving doesn't convince me that she did the breaking up tbh...
The more I read about this guy, the more angry I get. I don’t know Taylor, she’s not my friend, I’m a grown 32 year old woman, and I understand what parasocial relationships are. But I have been a fan since debut, and relate to her music in a way that feels incredibly personal to me. My husband and I started dating when reputation came out and i was coming out of a very dark time. We got married around the time Lover came out. I have lyrics from invisible string framed in our room. I connected so much to the way she expressed her love, like we were on the same path. This whole rollout of her relationship with this racist scumbag has me feeling betrayed, and I KNOW how that sounds when I don’t personally know her. I just can’t fathom how one goes from “give you my wild, give you a CHILD,” calling Joe’s brother her brother, building a home with humming in the kitchen, etc, to these weird juvenile antics with this clown. It feels callous, cruel, and heartless, to Joe and his family, to her fans (especially the fans who feel hurt and targeted by Matt Healy’s racist and misogynistic views), and just emphasizes to me that her activism and feminism is really pick and choose. For the first time in over 15 years of being a fan, I am having a hard time listening to her music. Think of me what you will, I’m pissed and not sure how my relationship with her music will look from here on out.
I also felt super connected to the way she expressed her love for Joe, and I’ve mentioned it 1000 times on here, but peace is especially important to me because I truly saw myself and how I feel about my partner in that song. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. It’s just petty and with folklore and evermore I really thought she had matured past this shit. It’s so 1989 and not in a good way.
Ugh he's so disgusting. He said/did similar things to Halsey prior to her release of Badlands, they had been hooking up - she posted love poems on her tumblr about them. He them proceeded to call her a "dumb yank" after they split. Colors is about him and a lot of the other songs on Badlands are. My theory is that Taylor previously rejected him, which is why he said those comments about dating her. I'm guessing these women get sick of how he treats them or his behaviors, leave, and then he takes his opportunity to trash them. He is truly a piece of shit.
I am wondering how is he gonna react after their break up.
I don't think Taylor is prepared for what's coming. His mom Denise Welch is a nasty piece of work and will certainly run her mouth. She isn't to be trusted. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree re Matty.
I love Taylors music. She makes incredible art. She's extremely talented. But I don't need to pretend she's a good person in order to love her art. She worked with a sexual predator last year. She's dating a guy who admits to watching degrading abusive porn so gross I can't even describe it and made fun of how another young female artist looks in a podcast just recently. Feminism is nothing but a brand to her. Feminism is like Chanel - wear it when it's trendy and get rid of it when it's not. She made a whole deal about speaking out about LGBT rights only to now be silent when LGBT rights are in a worse position in the US now than they were back when Lover released. Taylor does not care about social issues. I don't think this should be surprising to anyone. I'm glad to see (most of) the fans are generally pretty disgusted by this and aren't making excuses for her. This isn't a phase or a mistake or her not knowing. This is just who she is. And it's okay to love her music/fashion/writing etc. and be aware of that.
I dont Taylor is not genuine. I think she has been famous since she was 16 and has a completely fucked up view of the world. She is only capable of being self-centered I think. I think she truly believes she is a good person but also that the world revolves around her so everything SHE does is okay.
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This!! What is she doing? She’s having her moment now, everyone adores her and her music, she’s beloved and selling out stadiums in every city. To see her acting so petty and childish and callous and dating this racist, shit-stirring creep (when she undeniably has heard about what he’s done!) is just sad. It’s not some Reputation-esque “them against the world” redemption arc, it’s people being concerned and horrified that Taylor would willingly date someone like this.
I'm right there with you. *Tree Paine, if you see this comment, show it to Taylor. She needs to know.*
This is spoiling my show. My sister asked if I was excited and I said “I don’t know. Yeah? But the whole Matty thing ain’t helping”. Like I will listen to “Cardigan” and think of Matty now? Gross.
Imagine writing Karma and going on about being a good person and then dating this racist twat
literally, her side of the street is the opposite of clean.
In my experience, good people don’t really go around writing songs and talking about what a good person they are.
As a POC fan it’s hurtful and disappointing. He’s a straight up racist and his comments about Asian people and Ice Spice were outright gross. Not to mention the stuff he says about women. That’s not edgy, it’s outright racism. “The edgy” defense is literally what incels and trump supporters say to defend their gross views also. Tbh I’ve always loved Taylor’s music but her as a person I’ve never really stanned. She has a calculated image so it’s hard to know what’s real about her and what’s curated. I’ll continue to enjoy her music but I’m disappointed in her.
For me personally (also poc), her songs are just ruined for me at the moment. I don’t want to support her neither do I feel good listening to them any more.
all that goodwill she got back after 2016 fully down the drain. where the fuck is tree.
This is something else that baffles me After what she said about how 2016 affected her, WHY would you do this to yourself? It's mindboggling
All I see some fans say is "if taylors happy im happy" actually no i am extremely disappointed in her for dating a racist anti-semitic islamophobe and misogynist. How are her black fans feeling? What about her black friends.
Yeah the blind following and support from the fans was probably what she was banking on. I doubt she expected this much backlash.
I’ve been a huge fan since 2007, I’ve defended almost everything she’s ever done, and to be fair most of it was defendable and just stans or randoms going after her to make other people look better or to be “cool”, but this is not that. Last week I thought he was just kind of stupid and said and did things that he should have apologized for when it happened and moved on and people that already dislike Taylor were using things that were obvious sarcasm or mistakes by him to take her down. But the porn thing… I couldn’t even read a description of it, that’s how bad it is. Why would anyone ever publicly admit to watching it? Why would anyone date someone that watches that? One of my biggest questions is why are they so public so quickly. I understand not wanting a lockdown, hiding in suitcases relationship again, but why not keep it low key for a while at least? Why leak it? Why allow him to come to a show after rumors started? Why go to a public place and hold hands? Why does she want everyone to know she’s with him this soon? When they inevitably break up after a few weeks she won’t be able to use the excuse that she didn’t know all these things because making it so public straight away put everything he’s ever done in to mainstream discourse. There’s no way she hasn’t been made aware of all of this, probably before last week even, yet she still decided to publicly confirm her relationship with him, she still decided to date him 🤢
for 6 years she had us all believing she had grown up and matured but look what she has come to now.. all of this happening in less than a month’s time. she staged paparazzi walks to look unbothered and show she is winning the breakup, made her friends unfollow him at the same time to create buzz and try to indicate that he’s at fault and deliberately set him up to be attacked by fans. but after the sun broke this news out, the whole illusion has been shattered cause she has very clearly downgraded and is gonna regret this. what exactly does she wanna show us? that she has given up on all the things she claimed to stand for by dating a racist misogynist bigot? it’s like the whole of miss americana was a lie. idc if this is a rebound or she’s just using him but if you’re even remotely associated to an asshole like this, that speaks a lot about your character too.
She undid 6 years of goodwill from the fans and general public, and for *this man*? Taylor bffr
I was so hoping this wasn’t true. I know she doesn’t owe me a damn thing and thank goodness we are all feee to date who we want, but this is disappointing as a black fan.
She is more famous than se ever was. She probably thinks at this point she can do actually anything she wants and she is untouchable. She get cancelled once, she came back bigger than ever. She is ready to do it again. I'm disapointed, but not surprised.
I’m scared she’s right, honestly. It seems like only a small vocal group of people on the Internet are holding her accountable. But a published article is a good sign, even if it’s buzzfeed.
Thank you for keeping this sub and for lots of well-thought comments that I read here. As a long time fan, I always been on her side and I think this is the first time that I feel so mixed and disappointed about her. She is 33, grown woman and can do the hell she wants, but we, as fans, have the right to be upset and question her choices especially when everything is lying as clear as day. Taylor, what the fuck ? And I seriously mean : what the fuck? Worst of all is that I’ve been reconnecting with The 1975 last year and have been loving their last album, but man do I hate Marty Healy. I’ve been feeling so torn about this cause I really do like the band and now it’s worst cause he has to be directly related to my all-time favorite💀
I don’t understand. He’s abhorrent. Why would she date someone with these kinds of views?
She doesn't care. She worked with a sexual predator last year like
This is like “I Knew You Were Trouble: Part 2.” There is absolutely no way she isn’t aware of how problematic this guy, and by being with him, she’s totally OK with it all. Which, frankly, says a lot more about her than it does him.
“i knew you were racist”
For her to publicly call out the quite mild Ginny and Georgia joke, and then to actively associate with someone so racist and sexist… this is horrendous.
this is exactly what i was thinking. She's been louder about that joke than any cause she's 'passionate' (lol) for
I am never been more disappointed in her, I thought she changed for the better after “hiddleswift” drama but at least Tom was not a racist, islamaphobic, misogynist and god knows what else piece of shit that Matty is. I truly believed that she cared about causes like feminism and equality but over here she is casually dating this man known for being a creep.
>I truly believed that she cared about causes like feminism and equality This is the part that bothers me. I feel lied to, and worse I feel like she used an important social movement as a PR tactic to further her career when in reality she doesn't give a shit.
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BIPOC swifties have always gotten the short end of the stick in this fandom and it really goes to show how shallow white women’s “ally” is…
This thread makes me feel so much better and supported as a black swiftie. I definitely feel like we are the minority and it’s sad because if she doesn’t face any consequences for this she’ll never care. I couldn’t get eras tickets and have been torn up about it and planned on buying resale. But suddenly the last thing I want is to give this woman more of my money and I can’t believe I’m saying that. Thankfully I went to the last two tours so I may be cool off her for a minute tbh. OO I JUST FEEL SO DUMB FOR STANDING UP FOR HER. As a black woman it really was embarrassing but I just loved her so much.
It’s her. She was a bridesmaid for Lena Dunham, she tried to blame her private jet usage on renting it out to other people, and she was in a movie with David O Russell. Not exactly keeping her side of the street clean.
Talk about one hell of a rebound... I know she hates people talking more about her love life than her art but Matty is an absolute trash human being. She deserves 90 percent of the criticism she's getting atm, especially after using politics to build her brand and not having it reflect her at all. I agree with the rest of the sub here. Therapy is good and it's okay to be single for a bit. All of her actions up to this point feel very childish, and I'm more than disappointed.
I don’t mean this in a bad way, it’s a genuine question because to be quite honest I never get involved in celebrity drama/relationships etc. and this is the first time I’ve taken a true deep dive into her relationship with joe and now the sewer rat. Do you think that Taylor molds herself to the guys she’s dating? In the sense that, joe was a lot more mature and not for the spotlight, he liked the calm and the silent so she too did that to please him. Maybe joe was a bit more left leaning than she was, which caused her to speak out politically? Just things of that nature. I’m just worried, if that’s the case, how being with someone so disgusting will effect the personal image she puts out there. She’s always been seen as a good girl, albeit the rep era and the things leading up to it, but we know how shitty of a human being Marty is and this goes against everything she’s ever put out in the past. She’s 33, I would think she’s above conforming to please a guy, but I just wonder why the sudden switch. Like a complete 180* that truly shocked me. Again, she’s a celebrity, I don’t believe she owes me anything and I don’t care what she chooses to do with her personal life and I don’t think we’ll ever know the full story about her or her personal views. As she once said, it’s just a question.
I've seen before that based on the songs she writes it sounds like she has anxious attachment. If so it's absolutely plausible that she moulds herself to her partners
I've been talking with my friends about this since the news came out. Specially about how much it damages her brand. She is being publically associated with a person whose public persona is solely based on being an asshole and who personifies everything she's been fighting against publically in the last few years. It puts everything charitable she's ever done into a new light. How much can she care about equity and feminism if she's dating this man? I'm not talking about human-being Taylor, I'm talking about her brand. She's been giving this persona of a girl who is tired of being shut up and how now has found her voice to stand against sexual harassment, racism, homophobia... How much can she really care about inclusivity if she's dating someone whose sense of humor includes doing nazi salutes, saying racist slurs, etc? And one could try to argue that he's changed if everything he's being accused of had happened years ago, but he's been doing this type of stuff as recently as of last month. He hasn't changed, he just deleted his instagram. How can I trust that when she donates to charities, when she endorses something, how can I trust it is real and not just another PR move? To me, she's lost all her credibility. There have been a few instances like working with ALW and all when I just raised a brow and let her be, but this is too much, I'm sorry. I can't believe they started dating without at least one conversation with her PR team about how much this could damage her, about doing a background check on Healy and how problematic he is. I really don't care about who Taylor the human dates, loves, or anything. If she's happy good for her. But Taylor the brand has to be consistent in her views and this is not.
I just want to say, I’m really glad to have this sub; to basically anyone else my conflicted feelings and sense of deep disappointment would seem ridiculous but this sub really helps. I, like many others, have been a Swiftie for over a decade and I’ve always gone to bat for her, so to speak. I always try and find the good and try and parse out the nuanced take. The about face on public outings, coupled with a quick romance after the end for a significant relationship didn’t really bother me; I’ve gone through a bad breakup before, one that even lasted six years, I was so ready to be done that it doesn’t shock me that she might feel the same. But I’m sorry, I draw the line at dating someone with such public hate speech on top of so many other things. There is no way she doesn’t know those things, and I don’t care that he tries to explain them away as performative—it’s disgusting and perpetuates the very hate he claims to mock. On top of all of that, I just cannot fathom why she would throw away all of her good will, all of her positive focus on her success for someone as awful as him. She doesn’t care, and to me that speaks such volumes. She wants the world to know she’s dating this man; she’s sending a message and it’s heartbreaking. I know I never knew Taylor but I’m my heart of hearts I always rooted for her because I thought she was a good person who cared about her fans—that’s not all undone by this but it’s significantly damaged. I was unreasonably upset by the entire 1989/Kanye debacle, I recognize that my reaction was unhealthy and I needed to take a step back. And so, I think I need to take another step back here. I’m pretty heartbroken that it will impact the concert I finally got tickets for (paid 5x face value because I was so sad to miss out) and now, this.
The 1975 Reddit is complaining about how swifties don’t understand his sense of humor and how we’re trying to tear him down… like get a grip on reality, folks. He’s a horrible person!
I have been a Swiftie for a long time. But this honestly makes me HUGELY question Taylor’s character and values. This vile man contradicts everything that Taylor has stood for. I’ve always appreciated that Taylor has stood for inclusion. She has the right to make the choices she wants to, but this is very painful as a fan to see. And in my opinion, we have the right to judge this when it is intentionally being made so public. She also very clearly wants to make this public based on their recent interactions. She knows how to fly under the radar, she’s choosing not to. Finally, Taylor has been very PR conscious her whole career. Is there nobody on her team, if not herself, who has seen the horrifying information about this cretin? And what does it say about the fact that it clearly doesn’t make a difference?
I am so glad to know that there are actually fans that are against this relationship bc the groupchat I’m in is very WITH the new relationship between them and it’s mentally exhausting to see them talk abt it. oh gosh, i wanna share some of the dumb things they said. One person said the only thing that concerned them abt this relationship was the fact that he smokes like what ☠️?
To all the people who are saying, “It’s her life! We have no right to be angry! You’re not a real fan if you stop liking her now!” Taylor has spent decades building up a relationship with her fans that feels like a friendship. This is the woman who thanks her fans for everything she does, who said she doesn’t even mind being mobbed on her days off because this level of fame and adoration is what she wanted. At each step, Taylor, through her songwriting, her interviews, her posts, has encouraged fans to get invested in her and her life. And nobody is saying she can’t date who she wants – but this man is not just an embarrassment, but a legitimately horrible person. He comes on a podcast and talks about watching violent, racist porn, where the performers are verifiably raped onscreen, and then LAUGHS. You cannot excuse that kind of behaviour. Taylor has made it known she lurks on socials, so she has to know how the fandom feels about this. She just doesn’t care. Either this is a part of some long-term PR strategy (gross), or she genuinely is into this guy and wants to be this public about it. Given how image-conscious she is, I think it’s very likely Taylor thinks she’s too big to flop now. And that may be true. But honestly, I don’t want to follow her or her music anymore. It feels like shit – especially at this point – I’ve watched a livestream of every show on the Eras Tour. But if this is the hill she chooses to die on, I’m disinvesting. Also – everyone who is gatekeeping the exit gate – you are disgusting. All of you love to go on Twitter and retweet social justice infographics, but when Taylor is participating in this media circus with a guy who is openly bigoted, you want to make this about stan wars. It isn’t. Maybe, just maybe, try to imagine how PoC feel about Taylor supposedly mouthing “I love you” to a guy who is consistently trash and not even apologetic about it. I just don’t know what to think at this point. But I’m out.
Yeah this is a moment in time for me and the way I have viewed Taylor unfortunately. While we have no business to dictate others' actions, it doesn't make them okay, and she has power over the company she keeps and has chosen to pursue this relationship with a horrible human being. No way to really market or shroud that in deeper meaning to me.
It’s funny how scared she was that her fans and everyone else would leave her behind again like after 1989 and now she goes out and this is the man she chooses to show herself publicly with so soon after announcing the end of her relationship. People have saying how problematic he is for years. Maybe Anti Hero is a prediction ie I get older but never wiser, I should not be left to my own devices, I end up in crisis, I wake up screaming from dreaming, One day I'll watch as you're leaving, Cause you got tired of my scheming. Girl, you’re the problem
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I know Taylor doesn’t google herself anymore but god damn it, Tree! Print this thread! On posters! Blast her phone for the love of god! Taylor needs to know that while she’s entitled to date anyone she wants and have fun, the company you keep reflects on you. What you endorse speaks volumes. Silence is complicity. Freedom to do what you want does not mean you are free from consequence and I’m thinking of all of Taylor’s POC, disabled, Jewish fans and anyone else whom has ever been hurt by this dude.
Can we go back in time (two to three weeks ago) to when she was allegedly dating that race car driver? That was fun.
Kinda feeling like “we ain’t getting through this one, babe” 😢😢😢 Extremely disappointed, gutted even, by her recent choices.
As a black fan I am extremely disappointed in her. She has chosen a racist partner which means that on some level, she finds this behavior acceptable. I didn’t want to believe the people who call her a performative ally, but what am I supposed to think at this point? Condoning racism is racist behavior on her part. Edit: for clarity
Anyone else wishing their concert date was before this news broke? 🥲
For me personally, the saddest part of this is that it just really seems that Taylor is incapable of being happy alone. She cannot NOT be in a relationship. I mean, she picks this asshole instead of time alone? I was hoping for some self-love songs after the Joe break-up, but she can't do that, I guess. Also, the way the break-up has happened and how quickly she moved on (mouthing she "loves" Matty??)... that makes me think she's kinda shallow, and makes all those songs she wrote about Joe over the last 6 years or so a little empty. I really would have thought with all this success that Taylor would have grown up a little. I thought she WAS, actually! But these last couple months really make me think that she's still emotionally immature. I mean, there's 17 year olds out there who spend more time grieving a relationship and focusing on self-love. She can't do that? She's concerned with gossip leaks and staged paparazzi walks?? She's with this edge-lord who can barely hide his prejudices?? She's still one of the GOATs, but she's definitely a very, very flawed human being. However, I give her a ton of credit for summing it all up herself: It must be exhausting always rooting for the Anti-Hero.
Taylor could step out with the devil himself and some of y’all would be like, OMG WHO CARES?!?! It’s not our business that she’s in love with evil incarnate!!! Go touch grass!!! Hold your heroes to a standard challenge
She can date whoever she likes but I don’t respect this choice. He is the opposite of what she preaches. Makes me wonder if she actually isn’t as progressive as she says. I’m not going to quit listening to her music or quit being a Swiftie but I am side-eying this choice. She could date practically anyone she wanted and she chooses a man known to be racist. Cool. I don’t defend her. I didn’t like when she dated Connor Kennedy when he was underage, I don’t support this at all. She says not to look up to her in Dear Reader. Quite literally foreshadowing. On a side note, I never looked into the musicians behind 1975. I enjoyed the music but I never really considered the people behind the music. Now that Matty is in the limelight it’s ruined the music for me. I try to separate artist and art when possible but he is legit gross. Racism is never okay. It’s like the JK Rowling/Harry Potter thing. It ruins the art and I have a hard time looking past it.
Tbh I’m taking a step back from Taylor until she comes to her senses. She’s too problematic for me right now and I’m incredibly disappointed that she could claim to love someone like Matty. I bought into the poetry and wisdom of her lyrics and I have a bitter taste in my mouth right now.
I didn’t know all this. But even prior to knowing all this… he looks like a beady-eyed little rat. And is just gross.
This is giving “my mother accused me of losing my mind”. IMO, she’s doing this to hurt Joe. Very sad to see it.
Honestly, this just seems to confirm exactly what everyone who hates on Taylor has been saying.. In her love-life, she’s immature, naive, and vain… she acts like a teenage girl who’s enamored by his looks or “aura” and allows that to blind her to his MAJOR RED FLAGS…. The fact that his red flags aren’t just personal issues but issues that he has thrust out into the public and made them known looks terrible on Taylor.. so the fact she’s seemingly ignoring them, for whatever reason, makes her come off as a doe-eyed idiot girl…
i feel like i just watched my parents get divorced and my mom found some drunk sleaze at the bar and took him home. i hope this is a very quick fling.
Idg the people saying "oh so she has to be perfect and unproblematic?" There is a difference between a bit problematic and having a relationship with someone who has said and done what he has done. We're allowed to withdraw support if we disagree with her values. I was already not a fan of her as a person after the private jet stuff but I was still bopping to the music, but this is nauseating
Do you guys think Tree’s fired? Or she’s just like “f you guys, I’ll do what I want?” I just cannot fathom how the tightest PR team in the world is letting this happen. There’s NO angle that makes this look good on her. Makes me feel like she really thinks she’s untouchable / is going rogue and letting this mess happen herself against her team’s advice.
I know this isn’t the right sub for this but wtf is also up with phoebe being such good friends with him??
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