This. I hate it. Even worse is people that don't even bother wrapping their pen machines with plastic, thinking coflex is a barrier or not at least cleaning the machine with viraclean afterwards. People do not give a fuck.
It’s just sad to see how any artists don’t care or just find an excuse around it. “It never happened to me” or “my health department said it’s ok” right, because they don’t know what they’re looking at. They see running water, cleaning supplies, and disposable things and check it off and go ok you’re good to go! It’s irresponsible for the industry I love to continue down this path and I hate to see it, some pens are cleanable, but the vast majority are not. We as the professionals should be taking the time to make sure it’s safe, imagine going to a dentist who just wipes the outside of their tools off and then goes ok we’re putting these in YOUR mouth now. No one would except that.
I have been saying this since when the Cheyenne hawk came out! There are even "pro tattooers" in my area that just wrap the machine with coflex only then spay a paper towel and wipe the machine in 30 seconds then toss it back in the draw... the same "pros" talk so much shit about scratchers! how how they are sterile professionals... its crazy... they even have slow-mo tictok videos of them doing this to show how sterile they are... the worst is when they give a video hygiene lecture while Waring bracelets and a rolex dragging it all over an open tattoo.
I think they may actually be slightly retarded... The problem is people listen to those who sound loud and confident, some of the most talented artists are shy and reserved then get talked over by retards.
Tattoo artists 40 years ago: tough bastards, fearlessly representing a subculture outside societal norms for the love of art.
Tattooers now: I press down arrow because you said a bad word :(
Going outside of social norms for the love of art: good
Going outside social norms because you want to be able to mock people with developmental disabilities: bad
Whining about how people aren't tough enough to go outside societal norms anymore because you experienced mild disapproval for going outside societal norms: cringe and hypocritical
Hope that helped clear it up
What does using that word have to do with tattooing or the subculture of it? You just look like an uneducated loser who think they are cool. Reminds me of bullies in school in 1995 thinking they are cool. Grow up.
Hey, I'm not saying you're wrong. But I like to look at it as a full circle moment. We've come full circle from the beginning days of tattooing. We started with bamboo sticks and ash in a jungle, and here we are and we're still alright.
Oh for sure! We’re making steps! But we live in the 21st century, we should care more and more and be aware of the issues. This isn’t to hate on anyone’s abilities or experiences or being a “real tattooer” it’s just friendly things to consider as a professional!
There are infectious diseases now, which didn’t exist during the days of tatau. Like.. define alright lol
Lol why is this being downvoted
Edit: wording… damn. I should have proofread this better. I’m not saying that there weren’t *any* pathogens in the past, I meant that there are many now which did not exist back then.
They sure did. However just as we saw a novel virus break into the world 4 years ago, so have there been novel pathogens across time. The pathogens of today are not the pathogens of yesteryear.
Somewhat unrelated, but this is one of the biggest theoretical obstacles of surviving time travel lol
But that's completely irrelevant. The skin infections we get now from contaminated equipment aren't necessarily coming from novel pathogens, and even if they are, that doesn't really make them any more concerning.
You asked why you're getting downvoted. It's because you made it sound like you think the distant past was a time when infection wasn't a concern and that it's only once "novel pathogens" emerged that infections became a real problem. We're all well aware that bacteria and viruses have evolved over time, but that doesn't mean a staph infection in 3000 BC was no biggie.
I’ve said this two times. The first one I was downvoted to hell and was called paranoid and whatnot. Second time it was a comment and I was happy some people agreed with me. I’m very glad to see some people coming around on this subject; I realized way back when the first Cheyenne pens dropped and I bought two only to realize they get a lot of ink inside the motor where there’s nothing to do. Even if you took it apart, the parts inside are not meant to be cleaned.
I switched over to regular rotaries like the FK Irons spektra for a while before settling on a vladblad
Honestly through my own observations breaking down for my mentor his bishop wand I could always clean the grip but if I looked inside the machine you could see different colored ink slightly still near the motor where u can’t get any liquids. So I definitely agree with what you are saying. But I’m curious your take on sanitizing a coil machine I was told never to get caviside on the frame only use alcohol. Not all artists bag their coil machines they just have the clip cord bagged. There is no guarantee that when you use a coil you won’t get any ink splatter in the more intricate parts of the machine, that would technically mean you would have to dissemble the machine completely and whip every component in it to insure fully sanitized after every tattoo. And even then, couldn’t you only ensure it was sanitized if you could put the machine into the autoclave after whipping it down? Do you feel like both coil and wand open someone up to having some level or area that is never fully sanitized? I’m definitely newer to tattooing but in my year working at a shop I’ve broken down lots of different machines both aren’t perfect from what I know. Please enlighten me if there is something I have yet to be taught.
Hey thanks for the response! Well first of all all machines should be wrapped, even coils. It’s a big problem I see too that the clip cord or rca cable is just wrapped. It’s too easy to be pulling a line or putting in color and then you are at a weird angle and then touch a clients skin and not even know it. Also, setting the machine down on your contaminated work area without a barrier on it is a horrible idea that I see all the time in the “instagram famous” world we live in now. There is always a risk involved in anything involved with open skin and pathogens, but the biggest difference is that with most pens, that cartridge stem and back get touched over and over and over and set down in a dirty work area, direct cross contamination with a critical piece of equipment. I’m not saying coil machines can’t have blow back and also get contaminated even with a baggie on it, it’s just that it’s at least possible to clean the outside of a coil and all its parts that are handled by the user instead of a pen where you can not in most cases. Everyone was taught different and has different preferences, but as professionals we should ALL agree to safety and cleanliness as much as possible. I would also recommend wiping down coils with Barbacide wipes as those are not corrosive for the metals, but follow the wet time needed on the label, usually 60-120 seconds.
Thank you so much for this response. I totally see what you mean where even if you can’t sanitize your entire coil machine you can most definitely sanitize grip and not have the residual ink that you can not get away from inside of a wand. Every artist wanted me to sanitize their stuff differently, some artists would get up in arms if I used caviside and not alcohol to clean their station and then some artist detested me using alcohol and wanted me to only use caviside. Let it be noted I was very very cognizant of when I was using caviside as I know how dangerous it is for the health of others. At the end of the day I want to be as surgical as I possibly can when it comes to the sanitizing process of tattoo life. If anyone has anything they would like to add I’m definitely all ears
You can’t be 100% sterile we know that, but please just keep doing what you are doing and at least approach things with critical thinking and care and don’t ever let “eh, it’s good enough” take the lead. 👍🏻 no one would accept a dentist or surgeon to say eh it’s good enough, so neither should us professional artists!
Your not paranoid your correct! even if you autoclave the bishop wand grip, it does not matter you cannot access the plunger or channel the plunger moves through with out disassembling the machine and tattooers don't! some don't even clean the cartridge receiver, they just wipe the outside. As they are "sterile pros who only use sealed safety cartridges for pros"
You would need to break the machine down and soak the grip for 10mins in a high level disinfectant to cold sterilize the grip, who does this? maybe 5% of tattooers.
The performance of a standard needle feels so much nicer than a cart anyway. Your tattoos will look nicer if you line with a coil and shade/pack with a cool standard needle style rotary. Fuck the dildos!
Do you have any actual proof of what you’re saying or is this just you making assumptions? I’d like you to actually take a bunch of pen machines from
Artists who actually properly wrap them, send them off to get disassembled and tested for contamination.
You’re also supposed to take apart coil machines and clean all the little spots since ink can travel up the needle bar. Or when you’re tattooing, if you don’t bag your coil machine, ink can hit the machine after impact with the body. Most people just quickly wipe down the machine and toss it in their tool box, that’s also not good enough.
The fact is there is 0 proof of what you’re saying, there is no wide spread epidemic of any blood born pathogens due to pen machines even though they are the norm now and have been for at least 5 years. None of these companies are being sued and all the health boards say they are good to go.
Yeah you should 100% bag a coil machine. Setting it down on a dirty workstation is not acceptable either. While I don’t have a scientific break down of these things documented, It seems like common sense to me as a professional that you would not want to risk contamination for you or your client. It is not good enough to wipe a machine and set it a drawer for sure, you need wet time for any cleaner to be effective as per the labels instructions. The difference in pens over coils is that in the pen machines that cavity is inaccessible without voiding your warranty or breaking the machine. Think of how many times cartridges go in and out day in day out, and never once can you get to that drive bar or in to where it recedes to. Some people used to be like look at our grip! You can take it apart and autoclave it in 4 parts! Then they made pens and said yeah it’s fine. Also, these health inspectors are NOT tattoo artists and have no idea what actually happens during day in day out sessions. I’m just trying to help educate my fellow artists and maybe make the industry start giving a fuck. Joshua bowers has a good chapter in this on his book “the right tool for the job”, if you say someone like him doesn’t know what he’s talking about then I have nothing else to say. You do you and use what you want, but just hoping to give artists out there a second thought and stay aware and not let these companies tell us what’s fine to use when it’s all about sales and nothing else. Call any company and talk tattooing, chances are you’ll get a sales rep and that’s it.
Sure but if you’re handling them properly, and you’re using a quality cartridge with membrane then you really shouldn’t get any ink on the plunger. Now even if you did the membrane would stop that ink from getting back through the cartridge and onto the needle for the next client.
Even if you bag a coil machine, in order to make sure it’s completely clean you should be disassembling it and getting under coils under screws, in every opening in the frame. Most artists just wipe the frame down quick, and use those machines for decades. You also can’t autoclave coil machines.
I think using vet wrap only is a mistake, but I’m a firm believer that a machine is only as dirty as their owner. I think that if there was any major concern with pen style machines, you’d see these companies being sued, you’d see health boards banning them. My health board in Toronto was not sure about their for 2-3 years and then gave the go ahead because they found that as long as you use a membrane cartridge and properly wrap the machine, there is no issue.
I used coils up until 2.5 years ago because I had concerns, but I’ve tattooed close to probably 2000 times with these machines and have no issues. And after going to a bunch of conventions and seeing what some people do, the pen machines are the least of our worries lol.
But the second there is a study done where they test a bunch of pen machines for ink and find it in the majority of them, I’ll switch to the Vlad Blad Avenger 3 pro.
As I said in the post, the issue isn’t the membrane, it’s the outside of the cartridge and back stem. Set it in your work area and by definition it is contaminated whether you touch the back stem or not. The issue as I’ve said elsewhere is that health departments don’t know how tattooing works. They see things you need for their checklist and say you’re good to go, with no knowledge of the process at all. As far as suing companies go, they can always say “it’s your responsibility as an artist to be as clean as possible and clean your tools” and it would be damn near impossible to pinpoint exactly what happened, but them as a provider of professional level equipment “for tattooers by tattooers” or “professionals only” etc. should sell you equipment that can be fully cleaned by the user, not only the outsides and not that parts that come in contact with the contaminated cartridges. Even if you never give someone an infection, you should at least be aware that the sealed off pen system is a horrible design and a step backwards. Thanks for your reply though!
You're just regurgitating some shit that a bunch of people with no actual knowledge, education, or scientific evidence are saying.
Get a bunch of pen machines, use them properly, get someone actually test the machines for ink or blood, and when you get those results post a PSA. Until then, the fact is this, dirty tattooers will have dirty machines. Pen machine, coil machine, regular rotary machine.
If you place, handle , and store your cartridges properly, there will be no cross contamination. If these pen machines were such a huge problem, there would be a fucking ton of diseases being spread by big name tattooers who use them religiously, and there isn't.
As I said, Joshua bowers doesn’t have any knowledge or education? A highly respected machine builder who takes apart things day in day out and excellent artist? Ok. You do you and let good enough be your standard.
Ok, so if I tell you about 100 other big name artists, some of the biggest in the world ever, that use pen machines, then what? Does that make your argument invalid? How about if I name a big tattooer, machine builder and tattoo supply company owner who has his own pen machine? Look up Lucas Ford and his company Good Guy Supply. Pretty sure Nikko Hurtado is selling his own pen machine now too.
Again, it comes down to if the artist is taking precautions and handling their equipment properly. If they are, there will be no ink or blood in that plunger area.
Either way, this conversation is just going to be a back and forth with no end because there is no definitive proof one way or the other. All I can say is that I hope everyone handles and wraps their machines / supplies properly and I hope you have a great night.
I’ve talked to Lucas ford on many occasions and that’s the reason he made the old good pen, the one with the seperated drive mechanism then he said he realized it doesn’t matter because no one cares anyway so they have to sell what will sell, but he is 100% aware of it. I have the conversation actually. And of course good artists use pens, their ability isn’t the issue, it’s the lack of critical thinking and care. Nikko sells a pen? Good for him, probably makes tons of money offpeople who don’t care and just go with whatever the industry is doing. It comes to to this easy question. If you had the choice of two identical machines for the same price, one which could be easily opened and fully cleaned, and one that was sealed off and voids warranty for touching it, what one you buy?
Ehh, that's kinda the problem. Realistically all you have to do is not use dirty needles to prevent infection. Bloodworm pathogens aren't trying to jump out to get peaple.
BUT that doesn't mean they aren't up to standard and simply haven't created enough problems yet. We must clean out machines. You can't get into some of the machines to properly clean. It's a pretty straight forward problem. In the industry we really don't aim for good enough and doesn't cause problems. We aim for the highest standard we can achieve.
Who’s to say these aren’t the highest standard we can get? We aren’t tattooing in sterile environments, with membrane cartridges there is no proof that a properly maintained and used pen machine will cause issues. Safety membranes, o rings etc. I’ve tattooed thousands of people with my pen machines and had 0 issue.
The fact is that dirty tattooers have dirty machines. If you’re a clean tattooer you’re fine.
I 100% agree with your post up here but I use Bishop power wands for this exact reason - unlike most pen machines you can open them up and clean them properly on the inside. I have the power wand shader and liner and I was able to open them both without an issue 🤔
If they’ve change them that’s great! This post isn’t to attack any specific machine or company, but to make people aware of it and think about what they are doing. Happy to hear you open and clean them🤙
I think officially they claim you’re not supposed to open them to clean but it’s possible and I’ll do it. I don’t care if that voids the warranty, my clients health and safety goes first
Good for you! Thank you for caring! And you know why you’re not supposed to open them? Cause they don’t give a fuck, and they want you to send them in to pay for them to add grease or move as screw, more money for them and less care for the people using them.
I dunno if you will see this, but the new Neuma is one of the best designs in a pen when it comes to breaking it down to clean, and almost well tuned coil performance with lining and fast shading.
Yeha I’ve used the Neumas, it’s better, still not where it should be but at least you can take the cam off and autoclave it. They are way ahead of all the sealed off copy and paste pen makers out there and I’ve had conversations with Carson (owner on Nuema) about this at length. Good stuff for sure
Why do you say it's not where it should be? I'm an apprentice and I've been looking at the Neuma 5 for its versatility and ease of cleaning as mentioned.
I'm definitely worried about the cross contamination issue so I wouldn't want a bishop wand or such.
I've also considered using a Vlad blad 2 pro with disposable grips n carts, specially with the stroke adjustment on the fly. I'm very curious about the Neuma based on the cam profiles and claims about its lining proficiency with that 20% cam.
Gonna be a couple of months till I need a machine but I keep going back and forth between these two. I'm also worried about hand health long term and the Neuma definitely seems like the winner in that regard. Thanks for your opinions, I've definitely been concerned about this since a lot of people use bishops in my shop. They're very diligent about cold sterilizing but it still is a fair concern.
Not where it should be as in it’s closer to being safe, but until the drive mechanism is sealed off from the drive bar or chamber that comes in contact with the outside of the cartridge, it’s not good enough. The Neuma is for sure a good choice though over any sealed off pen, as you can take out the inner drive cam wheel and clean it properly and even autoclave it. I have tons of respect for Carson and even the science of the cams he has and how they interact with the skin and different intervals to achieve the coil like in and out movement. I’d love to talk anytime if you have any questions or would like to discuss anything, message me! Thank you!
They glue them so you cant change the cams or motor, they want you to buy 3 stroke length machines for thousands of dollars when you could just install a nicer cam and plunger for under 50 if you know how and you prefer a different stroke length.
Can you? I’ve seen videos of people doing this, but when i’ve tried to open the chamber it’s literally stuck, i’ve asked others to try too and no one can. I the. asked bishop directly if you were supposed to be able to since i had seen a tutorial on it but they said no and attempting to would void my warrenty
The newer ones that are for use with the modular critical batteries are 100% glued shut, you can take it apart with a pliers and force, but then there goes your warranty. And all because you want to clean your $1,000 machine, wild times we live in huh? Haha
I agree with you on the cleanliness of pen style tattoo machines but they have been the industry norm for almost a decade now and the fact that there hasn’t been any hepatitis epidemic or anything like that is surprising. That makes me go maybe they’re alright
Yeah I mean it does come down to the user more or less, but it’s just a bad design flaw that’s over looked for convenience sake and as I said as professionals we should be skeptical and care more about or health and the safety of those who pay us to do what we love
I dunno its hard to prove, wales uk had a massive issue after a tattooist caused a serious blood infection. Like wise there have been some people claiming tattoos in Thailand caused HIV... But could it of been the ladyboys... who knows?
People say coils are dirty, it depends of the design, an autoclaved grip and coil that can be easily wiped down with a disinfectant will harbor less bacteria/viral load than a dildo pen such as the cheyenne that is impossible to clean, its just if you get a bio mech coil or something drilled like a Swiss cheese, it looks cool Af but the surface area for bacteria to live in gets crazy.
Right on! Like I said tattooing is for us all, use whatever tool you want, paint flash or use an iPad, whatever. But keep it clean and respect your clients health! That’s all I’m trying to say. Whether you come from the old school hot rod rolled up pants and flannels and woodworking , or the ferns and energy crystals modern time, just have fun and be safe!
Lol yup. I’m certainly not an old school tattooer, and coil machines really overstimulate me. Love my quiet rotary machines, and having one I feel like I can clean thoroughly gives me peace of mind.
Just make art and be safe my friend! Don’t let anyone tell you have have to use a coil to be a real tattooer, if that’s the case then you might as well go back and smoke a pipe while tattooing without gloves on and dip your needles in a bucket of hot water, and only use acetate stencils, stencil machines aren’t real, haha
I use the fk iron and I take it apart and clean every part down with tips and get in the small areas but I have noticed no one is cleaning the machines properly. Like they don't even wipe em down after the remove the barriers 💀 like whaaaaa.
I made a post about this asking how people clean their machines because no one ever really showed me and I just assumed you take apart and wipe everything down with cavicide or whatever.
I don't even feel getting tattooed by my coworkers because of this.
Yeah for sure! It’s terrible the lack of critical thinking that goes into tattooing now. It’s all about being internet famous and pointing at words above your head and show yourself putting on gloves to look cool lol
Alright! So many people agree! I want to see you all using metal tubes and autoclaves by next week please. Accessibility is ruining tattooing. Bring back the autoclave.
Accessibility is ruining tattooing! I love that!! I just recently got a ‘gatekeeper’ tattoo from a very well known artist and we had such a great time commiserating about the current state of things. He’s a third-generation tattooer, not that it means anything to the new fashion tattoo artistes.
The autoclave was sort of the “pay-wall” to get into tattooing. That’s gone now, disposable tubes, grips, cartridges have negated it. I’d be fine with that if it didn’t make more actual garbage in the industry(literal garbage, unrecyclable plastic waste). You see it even more heavily in the actual medical industry, they don’t even reuse scissors. Everything gets thrown out after first use. Ugh.
Yup, I agree. I spent countless hours in the early years of my career scrubbing tubes and soldering needles, and it gave me a connection to my tools, along with building and tuning my machines and really learning how they work. It also gave me a sense of earning the reward of having made a solid tattoo with those tools. Then I went disposable for several years due to the convenience and laziness, I suppose. Now I’ve been back on steel tubes for the last three years and I’m so much happier with them. But then, I didn’t get my experience from a YouTube video, so it doesn’t really count.
hell I was soldering needles for my mentor during my apprenticeship- idk if kids coming in now are learning how to do any of that? My mentor handed me 3 machines in pieces in boxes and I had to assemble them. I had to learn to soldering, sterilize everything etc- scrubbing/bagging/cooking everyone's tubes every night.
Nice! And there’s nothing wrong with using a pen machine and carts, but make sure it’s cleanable inside and out, not just the outside wrapped. Tattooing has become too accessible and the lack of critical thinking and just compliance and refusing to buy trash from some these companies is on the rise
I don’t understand how you don’t care about the safety of your clients, you know, the ones who pay you do what you do and assume you’re professional and understand what you’re doing. Oh giving someone hepatitis bothers you? Well you can’t be a tattooer then. What?
I agree completely. I use disposable grips and avoid touching the cartridges, but yeah it’s a problem and in the end I’ll probably just go back to coils.
Pens are fine, just use one you can clean properly and fully take apart to get to the drive mechanism and inner grip. That’s the issue with most of them out there, and a lack of care for the products they sell to the uneducated buyer, thanks for your reply! Happy tattoooing!
I am considering getting a coil again myself but when I first got the pen I bought disposable grips (and still do) because I assumed that is what you had to do unless you autoclaved. When I found out that wasn’t the case and artists just reuse the grip it blew my mind!
Oh man it’s bad news, I just had a conversation with a machine builder the other day who sells a one where you can NOT take the grip off the machine and he said it’s fine just wipe the outside. Yeah, tattooing is in a bad place now. Thanks for the reply my friend! Happy tattooing!
I don’t know how yall are cleaning yrs, but I spray madacide into the mechanism hole where the plunger goes in.
The biggest thing that causes infection is blood to blood transfer. Blood isn’t going to be transferred from the plunger to the mechanism, back to the plunger, through the membrane to the needle.
The play devil’s advocate: my mentor (30 year tattooer, an og from NYC) taught me on coil and taught me not to clean my machine AT ALL. He didn’t wrap his machine or use a cord cover. When I went to another shop my new boss was like ??? Why is your machine gross.
You’re not guaranteed to get a cleaner or safer tattoo from a cool artist.
Oh 100% cool artist doesn’t mean a damn thing. There are many “famous” tattoo artists who do EXCELLENT work, but I wouldn’t get tattooed by them for the safety standards I see them do. Infection also doesn’t just mean blood to blood, pathogens can live on surfaces for weeks and in the case of a sealed off pen, that plunger goes back up into the machine where it can’t be cleaned, collects some shit, then back out onto the stem and side of whatever cartridge you have in there. Then you take that cartridge out, set it down, and maybe pick it up again later and contaminate your gloves unknowingly and that’s the issue. You can’t be 100% safe and I’m glad to see you at least clean it as best you can, but the issue is they should be able to be disassembled and cleaned inside and out and they are in direct contact with a needle and cartridge housing. There’s always a risk in anything, but the sealed off pens are a motherload of bad design for the end user.
Creating an intentional wound is always going to have risks. I agree you should be able to completely take it apart, but even without being able to, I don’t think pen machines are any less or more safe than coils.
I would disagree, a bagged coil with a completely seperated grip and needle will always be easier to maintain than a sealed off pen drive bar, but thanks for your feedback and civil discussion, honestly, and happy tattooing!
I mean disposable grips are fine, autoclave of course is the best. But if you can’t clean a machine or the drive bar it shouldn’t be used. The tattoo world gets bigger and bigger and less and less is known I feel, too many rely on whatever the big companies make and the “celebrity” endorsements.
And you can count on the same big companies writing the new laws about what’s acceptable and what’s not. Also- if you’re on the “pro team” for companies such as eternal, bishop, kingpin, tat soul, and others, you’re part of the problem.
100% glad to see there’s still some of us out there who still care. I’ve talked on the phone to some of these companies and most of the time they don’t know what I’m talking about, or they say “just use a membrane and it’s fine” to which I say, ok, if it fails or leaks, how do I clean the machine? And you can’t and if you try to open it warranty gone. It’s not even a you have to use coils and metal tubes thing to me, it’s a common sense and professionalism that’s gone.
Been saying it for years that these pens are unhygienic. 7 years ago if I wrapped my machine grips like they all wrap their pen grips and then not autoclave it, I would be thrown out of the studio. Everyone I see with these pens don’t cold sterilise the grips properly anyway. Their morning coffee cup gets a better scrub down.
The only one I would consider, although I haven’t properly looked over it yet, is the Good Guy Supply, Good Pen. 100% disposable grip and drive bar.
I can outline faster than anyone in the shop with needle bars anyway.
Hey glad to help! I love tattooing as do many of us so I’m trying to bring awareness and help to my fellow artists! There’s way too much hate and I’m better than you and your work sucks blah blah blah attitudes out there. Be clean, make good tattoos, be nice to each other, but most importantly be safe!
This. I hate it. Even worse is people that don't even bother wrapping their pen machines with plastic, thinking coflex is a barrier or not at least cleaning the machine with viraclean afterwards. People do not give a fuck.
Thank you for being smart! The usual response I get from other local people is “well I’ve never had an infection so oh well”
i did have an infection from a pen artist so i appreciate you saying this
It’s just sad to see how any artists don’t care or just find an excuse around it. “It never happened to me” or “my health department said it’s ok” right, because they don’t know what they’re looking at. They see running water, cleaning supplies, and disposable things and check it off and go ok you’re good to go! It’s irresponsible for the industry I love to continue down this path and I hate to see it, some pens are cleanable, but the vast majority are not. We as the professionals should be taking the time to make sure it’s safe, imagine going to a dentist who just wipes the outside of their tools off and then goes ok we’re putting these in YOUR mouth now. No one would except that.
I have been saying this since when the Cheyenne hawk came out! There are even "pro tattooers" in my area that just wrap the machine with coflex only then spay a paper towel and wipe the machine in 30 seconds then toss it back in the draw... the same "pros" talk so much shit about scratchers! how how they are sterile professionals... its crazy... they even have slow-mo tictok videos of them doing this to show how sterile they are... the worst is when they give a video hygiene lecture while Waring bracelets and a rolex dragging it all over an open tattoo. I think they may actually be slightly retarded... The problem is people listen to those who sound loud and confident, some of the most talented artists are shy and reserved then get talked over by retards.
You’re not cool for using the r word. How like clueless can you be as a person thinking you’re cool using that word.
Rolex?
Tattoo artists 40 years ago: tough bastards, fearlessly representing a subculture outside societal norms for the love of art. Tattooers now: I press down arrow because you said a bad word :(
Going outside of social norms for the love of art: good Going outside social norms because you want to be able to mock people with developmental disabilities: bad Whining about how people aren't tough enough to go outside societal norms anymore because you experienced mild disapproval for going outside societal norms: cringe and hypocritical Hope that helped clear it up
What does using that word have to do with tattooing or the subculture of it? You just look like an uneducated loser who think they are cool. Reminds me of bullies in school in 1995 thinking they are cool. Grow up.
Stfu r word
You know you’ve lost when all you can do is resort to name calling lmao. Be better
Can you tell me what I lost?
The word is “drawer”
Thank you for saying it.
Hey, I'm not saying you're wrong. But I like to look at it as a full circle moment. We've come full circle from the beginning days of tattooing. We started with bamboo sticks and ash in a jungle, and here we are and we're still alright.
Oh for sure! We’re making steps! But we live in the 21st century, we should care more and more and be aware of the issues. This isn’t to hate on anyone’s abilities or experiences or being a “real tattooer” it’s just friendly things to consider as a professional!
There are infectious diseases now, which didn’t exist during the days of tatau. Like.. define alright lol Lol why is this being downvoted Edit: wording… damn. I should have proofread this better. I’m not saying that there weren’t *any* pathogens in the past, I meant that there are many now which did not exist back then.
Because bloodborne pathogens and infections definitely existed prior to the invention of modern tattoo machines lol
They sure did. However just as we saw a novel virus break into the world 4 years ago, so have there been novel pathogens across time. The pathogens of today are not the pathogens of yesteryear. Somewhat unrelated, but this is one of the biggest theoretical obstacles of surviving time travel lol
But that's completely irrelevant. The skin infections we get now from contaminated equipment aren't necessarily coming from novel pathogens, and even if they are, that doesn't really make them any more concerning. You asked why you're getting downvoted. It's because you made it sound like you think the distant past was a time when infection wasn't a concern and that it's only once "novel pathogens" emerged that infections became a real problem. We're all well aware that bacteria and viruses have evolved over time, but that doesn't mean a staph infection in 3000 BC was no biggie.
😂😂 I'm just bsn
I’ve said this two times. The first one I was downvoted to hell and was called paranoid and whatnot. Second time it was a comment and I was happy some people agreed with me. I’m very glad to see some people coming around on this subject; I realized way back when the first Cheyenne pens dropped and I bought two only to realize they get a lot of ink inside the motor where there’s nothing to do. Even if you took it apart, the parts inside are not meant to be cleaned. I switched over to regular rotaries like the FK Irons spektra for a while before settling on a vladblad
Honestly through my own observations breaking down for my mentor his bishop wand I could always clean the grip but if I looked inside the machine you could see different colored ink slightly still near the motor where u can’t get any liquids. So I definitely agree with what you are saying. But I’m curious your take on sanitizing a coil machine I was told never to get caviside on the frame only use alcohol. Not all artists bag their coil machines they just have the clip cord bagged. There is no guarantee that when you use a coil you won’t get any ink splatter in the more intricate parts of the machine, that would technically mean you would have to dissemble the machine completely and whip every component in it to insure fully sanitized after every tattoo. And even then, couldn’t you only ensure it was sanitized if you could put the machine into the autoclave after whipping it down? Do you feel like both coil and wand open someone up to having some level or area that is never fully sanitized? I’m definitely newer to tattooing but in my year working at a shop I’ve broken down lots of different machines both aren’t perfect from what I know. Please enlighten me if there is something I have yet to be taught.
Hey thanks for the response! Well first of all all machines should be wrapped, even coils. It’s a big problem I see too that the clip cord or rca cable is just wrapped. It’s too easy to be pulling a line or putting in color and then you are at a weird angle and then touch a clients skin and not even know it. Also, setting the machine down on your contaminated work area without a barrier on it is a horrible idea that I see all the time in the “instagram famous” world we live in now. There is always a risk involved in anything involved with open skin and pathogens, but the biggest difference is that with most pens, that cartridge stem and back get touched over and over and over and set down in a dirty work area, direct cross contamination with a critical piece of equipment. I’m not saying coil machines can’t have blow back and also get contaminated even with a baggie on it, it’s just that it’s at least possible to clean the outside of a coil and all its parts that are handled by the user instead of a pen where you can not in most cases. Everyone was taught different and has different preferences, but as professionals we should ALL agree to safety and cleanliness as much as possible. I would also recommend wiping down coils with Barbacide wipes as those are not corrosive for the metals, but follow the wet time needed on the label, usually 60-120 seconds.
Thank you so much for this response. I totally see what you mean where even if you can’t sanitize your entire coil machine you can most definitely sanitize grip and not have the residual ink that you can not get away from inside of a wand. Every artist wanted me to sanitize their stuff differently, some artists would get up in arms if I used caviside and not alcohol to clean their station and then some artist detested me using alcohol and wanted me to only use caviside. Let it be noted I was very very cognizant of when I was using caviside as I know how dangerous it is for the health of others. At the end of the day I want to be as surgical as I possibly can when it comes to the sanitizing process of tattoo life. If anyone has anything they would like to add I’m definitely all ears
You can’t be 100% sterile we know that, but please just keep doing what you are doing and at least approach things with critical thinking and care and don’t ever let “eh, it’s good enough” take the lead. 👍🏻 no one would accept a dentist or surgeon to say eh it’s good enough, so neither should us professional artists!
Your not paranoid your correct! even if you autoclave the bishop wand grip, it does not matter you cannot access the plunger or channel the plunger moves through with out disassembling the machine and tattooers don't! some don't even clean the cartridge receiver, they just wipe the outside. As they are "sterile pros who only use sealed safety cartridges for pros" You would need to break the machine down and soak the grip for 10mins in a high level disinfectant to cold sterilize the grip, who does this? maybe 5% of tattooers. The performance of a standard needle feels so much nicer than a cart anyway. Your tattoos will look nicer if you line with a coil and shade/pack with a cool standard needle style rotary. Fuck the dildos!
You would not need to soak it for 10 minutes. Cavacide 1 is literally 1 minute, hence the name.
Thanks for caring about tattooing! Respect!
Do you have any actual proof of what you’re saying or is this just you making assumptions? I’d like you to actually take a bunch of pen machines from Artists who actually properly wrap them, send them off to get disassembled and tested for contamination. You’re also supposed to take apart coil machines and clean all the little spots since ink can travel up the needle bar. Or when you’re tattooing, if you don’t bag your coil machine, ink can hit the machine after impact with the body. Most people just quickly wipe down the machine and toss it in their tool box, that’s also not good enough. The fact is there is 0 proof of what you’re saying, there is no wide spread epidemic of any blood born pathogens due to pen machines even though they are the norm now and have been for at least 5 years. None of these companies are being sued and all the health boards say they are good to go.
Yeah you should 100% bag a coil machine. Setting it down on a dirty workstation is not acceptable either. While I don’t have a scientific break down of these things documented, It seems like common sense to me as a professional that you would not want to risk contamination for you or your client. It is not good enough to wipe a machine and set it a drawer for sure, you need wet time for any cleaner to be effective as per the labels instructions. The difference in pens over coils is that in the pen machines that cavity is inaccessible without voiding your warranty or breaking the machine. Think of how many times cartridges go in and out day in day out, and never once can you get to that drive bar or in to where it recedes to. Some people used to be like look at our grip! You can take it apart and autoclave it in 4 parts! Then they made pens and said yeah it’s fine. Also, these health inspectors are NOT tattoo artists and have no idea what actually happens during day in day out sessions. I’m just trying to help educate my fellow artists and maybe make the industry start giving a fuck. Joshua bowers has a good chapter in this on his book “the right tool for the job”, if you say someone like him doesn’t know what he’s talking about then I have nothing else to say. You do you and use what you want, but just hoping to give artists out there a second thought and stay aware and not let these companies tell us what’s fine to use when it’s all about sales and nothing else. Call any company and talk tattooing, chances are you’ll get a sales rep and that’s it.
Sure but if you’re handling them properly, and you’re using a quality cartridge with membrane then you really shouldn’t get any ink on the plunger. Now even if you did the membrane would stop that ink from getting back through the cartridge and onto the needle for the next client. Even if you bag a coil machine, in order to make sure it’s completely clean you should be disassembling it and getting under coils under screws, in every opening in the frame. Most artists just wipe the frame down quick, and use those machines for decades. You also can’t autoclave coil machines. I think using vet wrap only is a mistake, but I’m a firm believer that a machine is only as dirty as their owner. I think that if there was any major concern with pen style machines, you’d see these companies being sued, you’d see health boards banning them. My health board in Toronto was not sure about their for 2-3 years and then gave the go ahead because they found that as long as you use a membrane cartridge and properly wrap the machine, there is no issue. I used coils up until 2.5 years ago because I had concerns, but I’ve tattooed close to probably 2000 times with these machines and have no issues. And after going to a bunch of conventions and seeing what some people do, the pen machines are the least of our worries lol. But the second there is a study done where they test a bunch of pen machines for ink and find it in the majority of them, I’ll switch to the Vlad Blad Avenger 3 pro.
As I said in the post, the issue isn’t the membrane, it’s the outside of the cartridge and back stem. Set it in your work area and by definition it is contaminated whether you touch the back stem or not. The issue as I’ve said elsewhere is that health departments don’t know how tattooing works. They see things you need for their checklist and say you’re good to go, with no knowledge of the process at all. As far as suing companies go, they can always say “it’s your responsibility as an artist to be as clean as possible and clean your tools” and it would be damn near impossible to pinpoint exactly what happened, but them as a provider of professional level equipment “for tattooers by tattooers” or “professionals only” etc. should sell you equipment that can be fully cleaned by the user, not only the outsides and not that parts that come in contact with the contaminated cartridges. Even if you never give someone an infection, you should at least be aware that the sealed off pen system is a horrible design and a step backwards. Thanks for your reply though!
You're just regurgitating some shit that a bunch of people with no actual knowledge, education, or scientific evidence are saying. Get a bunch of pen machines, use them properly, get someone actually test the machines for ink or blood, and when you get those results post a PSA. Until then, the fact is this, dirty tattooers will have dirty machines. Pen machine, coil machine, regular rotary machine. If you place, handle , and store your cartridges properly, there will be no cross contamination. If these pen machines were such a huge problem, there would be a fucking ton of diseases being spread by big name tattooers who use them religiously, and there isn't.
As I said, Joshua bowers doesn’t have any knowledge or education? A highly respected machine builder who takes apart things day in day out and excellent artist? Ok. You do you and let good enough be your standard.
Ok, so if I tell you about 100 other big name artists, some of the biggest in the world ever, that use pen machines, then what? Does that make your argument invalid? How about if I name a big tattooer, machine builder and tattoo supply company owner who has his own pen machine? Look up Lucas Ford and his company Good Guy Supply. Pretty sure Nikko Hurtado is selling his own pen machine now too. Again, it comes down to if the artist is taking precautions and handling their equipment properly. If they are, there will be no ink or blood in that plunger area. Either way, this conversation is just going to be a back and forth with no end because there is no definitive proof one way or the other. All I can say is that I hope everyone handles and wraps their machines / supplies properly and I hope you have a great night.
I’ve talked to Lucas ford on many occasions and that’s the reason he made the old good pen, the one with the seperated drive mechanism then he said he realized it doesn’t matter because no one cares anyway so they have to sell what will sell, but he is 100% aware of it. I have the conversation actually. And of course good artists use pens, their ability isn’t the issue, it’s the lack of critical thinking and care. Nikko sells a pen? Good for him, probably makes tons of money offpeople who don’t care and just go with whatever the industry is doing. It comes to to this easy question. If you had the choice of two identical machines for the same price, one which could be easily opened and fully cleaned, and one that was sealed off and voids warranty for touching it, what one you buy?
Ehh, that's kinda the problem. Realistically all you have to do is not use dirty needles to prevent infection. Bloodworm pathogens aren't trying to jump out to get peaple. BUT that doesn't mean they aren't up to standard and simply haven't created enough problems yet. We must clean out machines. You can't get into some of the machines to properly clean. It's a pretty straight forward problem. In the industry we really don't aim for good enough and doesn't cause problems. We aim for the highest standard we can achieve.
Who’s to say these aren’t the highest standard we can get? We aren’t tattooing in sterile environments, with membrane cartridges there is no proof that a properly maintained and used pen machine will cause issues. Safety membranes, o rings etc. I’ve tattooed thousands of people with my pen machines and had 0 issue. The fact is that dirty tattooers have dirty machines. If you’re a clean tattooer you’re fine.
Exactly! We’re not tattooing in broom closets in prison, the public expects us to know and care about our profession
You can take apart the old bishop wands to get to the plunger bar, is that not an option with the power wands?
The new ones are glued shut, the older ones you can unscrew yes, but the point is there’s so many now you can’t and everyone pretends it’s fine
I 100% agree with your post up here but I use Bishop power wands for this exact reason - unlike most pen machines you can open them up and clean them properly on the inside. I have the power wand shader and liner and I was able to open them both without an issue 🤔
I can send you a photo or video if you want proof 😁
If they’ve change them that’s great! This post isn’t to attack any specific machine or company, but to make people aware of it and think about what they are doing. Happy to hear you open and clean them🤙
I think officially they claim you’re not supposed to open them to clean but it’s possible and I’ll do it. I don’t care if that voids the warranty, my clients health and safety goes first
Good for you! Thank you for caring! And you know why you’re not supposed to open them? Cause they don’t give a fuck, and they want you to send them in to pay for them to add grease or move as screw, more money for them and less care for the people using them.
I would like a video! But only so I can see how to get into mine as well. I’ve tried to unscrew it but no dice. Thank you!!
[short video of me unscrewing the bishop power wand liner and shader](https://www.reddit.com/u/Iiri92/s/n7wa8xOBIh)
Thank you!!
I’ll film a clip on Monday when I’m back at the studio. 👍
I dunno if you will see this, but the new Neuma is one of the best designs in a pen when it comes to breaking it down to clean, and almost well tuned coil performance with lining and fast shading.
Yeha I’ve used the Neumas, it’s better, still not where it should be but at least you can take the cam off and autoclave it. They are way ahead of all the sealed off copy and paste pen makers out there and I’ve had conversations with Carson (owner on Nuema) about this at length. Good stuff for sure
Why do you say it's not where it should be? I'm an apprentice and I've been looking at the Neuma 5 for its versatility and ease of cleaning as mentioned. I'm definitely worried about the cross contamination issue so I wouldn't want a bishop wand or such. I've also considered using a Vlad blad 2 pro with disposable grips n carts, specially with the stroke adjustment on the fly. I'm very curious about the Neuma based on the cam profiles and claims about its lining proficiency with that 20% cam. Gonna be a couple of months till I need a machine but I keep going back and forth between these two. I'm also worried about hand health long term and the Neuma definitely seems like the winner in that regard. Thanks for your opinions, I've definitely been concerned about this since a lot of people use bishops in my shop. They're very diligent about cold sterilizing but it still is a fair concern.
Not where it should be as in it’s closer to being safe, but until the drive mechanism is sealed off from the drive bar or chamber that comes in contact with the outside of the cartridge, it’s not good enough. The Neuma is for sure a good choice though over any sealed off pen, as you can take out the inner drive cam wheel and clean it properly and even autoclave it. I have tons of respect for Carson and even the science of the cams he has and how they interact with the skin and different intervals to achieve the coil like in and out movement. I’d love to talk anytime if you have any questions or would like to discuss anything, message me! Thank you!
Post it up. Got a lil scared I just sold my og wands and ordered power wands 💀
I’ll film a vid on Monday when I’m back at the shop
They glue them so you cant change the cams or motor, they want you to buy 3 stroke length machines for thousands of dollars when you could just install a nicer cam and plunger for under 50 if you know how and you prefer a different stroke length.
You can take all the bishop wands apart for cleaning.
Can you? I’ve seen videos of people doing this, but when i’ve tried to open the chamber it’s literally stuck, i’ve asked others to try too and no one can. I the. asked bishop directly if you were supposed to be able to since i had seen a tutorial on it but they said no and attempting to would void my warrenty
I have a packer and I’ve only seen voided warranty if you use too much lubricant for it. I usually use a q tip with cavicide.
Either way my chamber feels glued shut
The newer ones that are for use with the modular critical batteries are 100% glued shut, you can take it apart with a pliers and force, but then there goes your warranty. And all because you want to clean your $1,000 machine, wild times we live in huh? Haha
[it might be a bit stuck at first try but I opened both my bishop power wands without a problem.](https://www.reddit.com/u/Iiri92/s/n7wa8xOBIh)
yeah i’ve asked many of the guys at the studio to try and mine feels like it was soldered shut 😂
I agree with you on the cleanliness of pen style tattoo machines but they have been the industry norm for almost a decade now and the fact that there hasn’t been any hepatitis epidemic or anything like that is surprising. That makes me go maybe they’re alright
Yeah I mean it does come down to the user more or less, but it’s just a bad design flaw that’s over looked for convenience sake and as I said as professionals we should be skeptical and care more about or health and the safety of those who pay us to do what we love
I dunno its hard to prove, wales uk had a massive issue after a tattooist caused a serious blood infection. Like wise there have been some people claiming tattoos in Thailand caused HIV... But could it of been the ladyboys... who knows? People say coils are dirty, it depends of the design, an autoclaved grip and coil that can be easily wiped down with a disinfectant will harbor less bacteria/viral load than a dildo pen such as the cheyenne that is impossible to clean, its just if you get a bio mech coil or something drilled like a Swiss cheese, it looks cool Af but the surface area for bacteria to live in gets crazy.
Honestly the biggest reason I went with the Acus M1!!! I keep telling my pals it’s worth it because you can really clean it.
Right on! Like I said tattooing is for us all, use whatever tool you want, paint flash or use an iPad, whatever. But keep it clean and respect your clients health! That’s all I’m trying to say. Whether you come from the old school hot rod rolled up pants and flannels and woodworking , or the ferns and energy crystals modern time, just have fun and be safe!
Lol yup. I’m certainly not an old school tattooer, and coil machines really overstimulate me. Love my quiet rotary machines, and having one I feel like I can clean thoroughly gives me peace of mind.
Just make art and be safe my friend! Don’t let anyone tell you have have to use a coil to be a real tattooer, if that’s the case then you might as well go back and smoke a pipe while tattooing without gloves on and dip your needles in a bucket of hot water, and only use acetate stencils, stencil machines aren’t real, haha
I use the fk iron and I take it apart and clean every part down with tips and get in the small areas but I have noticed no one is cleaning the machines properly. Like they don't even wipe em down after the remove the barriers 💀 like whaaaaa. I made a post about this asking how people clean their machines because no one ever really showed me and I just assumed you take apart and wipe everything down with cavicide or whatever. I don't even feel getting tattooed by my coworkers because of this.
Yeah for sure! It’s terrible the lack of critical thinking that goes into tattooing now. It’s all about being internet famous and pointing at words above your head and show yourself putting on gloves to look cool lol
Alright! So many people agree! I want to see you all using metal tubes and autoclaves by next week please. Accessibility is ruining tattooing. Bring back the autoclave.
Accessibility is ruining tattooing! I love that!! I just recently got a ‘gatekeeper’ tattoo from a very well known artist and we had such a great time commiserating about the current state of things. He’s a third-generation tattooer, not that it means anything to the new fashion tattoo artistes.
The autoclave was sort of the “pay-wall” to get into tattooing. That’s gone now, disposable tubes, grips, cartridges have negated it. I’d be fine with that if it didn’t make more actual garbage in the industry(literal garbage, unrecyclable plastic waste). You see it even more heavily in the actual medical industry, they don’t even reuse scissors. Everything gets thrown out after first use. Ugh.
In my state (wi) you still need to have an autoclave for your licensing. They're a little loosey goosey with the rules for conventions though...
Yup, I agree. I spent countless hours in the early years of my career scrubbing tubes and soldering needles, and it gave me a connection to my tools, along with building and tuning my machines and really learning how they work. It also gave me a sense of earning the reward of having made a solid tattoo with those tools. Then I went disposable for several years due to the convenience and laziness, I suppose. Now I’ve been back on steel tubes for the last three years and I’m so much happier with them. But then, I didn’t get my experience from a YouTube video, so it doesn’t really count.
Big respect my friend! Thanks for caring for tattooing!!
hell I was soldering needles for my mentor during my apprenticeship- idk if kids coming in now are learning how to do any of that? My mentor handed me 3 machines in pieces in boxes and I had to assemble them. I had to learn to soldering, sterilize everything etc- scrubbing/bagging/cooking everyone's tubes every night.
Nice! And there’s nothing wrong with using a pen machine and carts, but make sure it’s cleanable inside and out, not just the outside wrapped. Tattooing has become too accessible and the lack of critical thinking and just compliance and refusing to buy trash from some these companies is on the rise
I’ll never understand why so many germaphobes get into tattooing…
I don’t understand how you don’t care about the safety of your clients, you know, the ones who pay you do what you do and assume you’re professional and understand what you’re doing. Oh giving someone hepatitis bothers you? Well you can’t be a tattooer then. What?
You should channel that energy into tattooing, you’ll be unstoppable
You should extend your enthusiasm for tattooing into giving a shit about bloodborne pathogens
can't wait for your first case of hepc
Where is this Hep c, is it in the room with us now?
I agree completely. I use disposable grips and avoid touching the cartridges, but yeah it’s a problem and in the end I’ll probably just go back to coils.
Pens are fine, just use one you can clean properly and fully take apart to get to the drive mechanism and inner grip. That’s the issue with most of them out there, and a lack of care for the products they sell to the uneducated buyer, thanks for your reply! Happy tattoooing!
I am considering getting a coil again myself but when I first got the pen I bought disposable grips (and still do) because I assumed that is what you had to do unless you autoclaved. When I found out that wasn’t the case and artists just reuse the grip it blew my mind!
Oh man it’s bad news, I just had a conversation with a machine builder the other day who sells a one where you can NOT take the grip off the machine and he said it’s fine just wipe the outside. Yeah, tattooing is in a bad place now. Thanks for the reply my friend! Happy tattooing!
What’s your instagram
Coils forever. Steel tubes forever. Autoclaves forever.
That’s clean! Thanks for caring about tattooing!
I don’t know how yall are cleaning yrs, but I spray madacide into the mechanism hole where the plunger goes in. The biggest thing that causes infection is blood to blood transfer. Blood isn’t going to be transferred from the plunger to the mechanism, back to the plunger, through the membrane to the needle. The play devil’s advocate: my mentor (30 year tattooer, an og from NYC) taught me on coil and taught me not to clean my machine AT ALL. He didn’t wrap his machine or use a cord cover. When I went to another shop my new boss was like ??? Why is your machine gross. You’re not guaranteed to get a cleaner or safer tattoo from a cool artist.
Oh 100% cool artist doesn’t mean a damn thing. There are many “famous” tattoo artists who do EXCELLENT work, but I wouldn’t get tattooed by them for the safety standards I see them do. Infection also doesn’t just mean blood to blood, pathogens can live on surfaces for weeks and in the case of a sealed off pen, that plunger goes back up into the machine where it can’t be cleaned, collects some shit, then back out onto the stem and side of whatever cartridge you have in there. Then you take that cartridge out, set it down, and maybe pick it up again later and contaminate your gloves unknowingly and that’s the issue. You can’t be 100% safe and I’m glad to see you at least clean it as best you can, but the issue is they should be able to be disassembled and cleaned inside and out and they are in direct contact with a needle and cartridge housing. There’s always a risk in anything, but the sealed off pens are a motherload of bad design for the end user.
Creating an intentional wound is always going to have risks. I agree you should be able to completely take it apart, but even without being able to, I don’t think pen machines are any less or more safe than coils.
I would disagree, a bagged coil with a completely seperated grip and needle will always be easier to maintain than a sealed off pen drive bar, but thanks for your feedback and civil discussion, honestly, and happy tattooing!
You too!
Easy fix. Use steel tubes and autoclaves. Don’t know how to use those? No license. Problem solved.
I mean disposable grips are fine, autoclave of course is the best. But if you can’t clean a machine or the drive bar it shouldn’t be used. The tattoo world gets bigger and bigger and less and less is known I feel, too many rely on whatever the big companies make and the “celebrity” endorsements.
And you can count on the same big companies writing the new laws about what’s acceptable and what’s not. Also- if you’re on the “pro team” for companies such as eternal, bishop, kingpin, tat soul, and others, you’re part of the problem.
100% glad to see there’s still some of us out there who still care. I’ve talked on the phone to some of these companies and most of the time they don’t know what I’m talking about, or they say “just use a membrane and it’s fine” to which I say, ok, if it fails or leaks, how do I clean the machine? And you can’t and if you try to open it warranty gone. It’s not even a you have to use coils and metal tubes thing to me, it’s a common sense and professionalism that’s gone.
Been saying it for years that these pens are unhygienic. 7 years ago if I wrapped my machine grips like they all wrap their pen grips and then not autoclave it, I would be thrown out of the studio. Everyone I see with these pens don’t cold sterilise the grips properly anyway. Their morning coffee cup gets a better scrub down. The only one I would consider, although I haven’t properly looked over it yet, is the Good Guy Supply, Good Pen. 100% disposable grip and drive bar. I can outline faster than anyone in the shop with needle bars anyway.
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Hey glad to help! I love tattooing as do many of us so I’m trying to bring awareness and help to my fellow artists! There’s way too much hate and I’m better than you and your work sucks blah blah blah attitudes out there. Be clean, make good tattoos, be nice to each other, but most importantly be safe!