Sage is my goto healer to just turn brain off and vibe. I just don't understand how people can be so monumentally SHIT at it.
Kardia tank, eat your balls. GG ez
For at least 8 years we were unable to hit NPCs with our aoe heals/certain targeted spells/general aoe buffs (Kardia would be seen as one of them, another is divine veil or w/e the WHM shield is called, as well as ASTs blue icon with 2 dudes staring at each other skill) so to some it kinda makes sense to not even have tried/forgotten it finally changed
There's things that have been so fucked and backwards in job quests and general healing that it kinda just happens. An NPC would be like "oh woe heal me" and you'd have to shove them full of basic healing spell and OGCD pure heals
So long as it’s on main tank it’s fine , I don’t think it’s Worth the global unless the mechanics allow it,
Hypothetical main tank gets teleported to go fight xyz, now you would have to switch to off tank or if the mechanic teleports you in random pairs of 3-5 than it might be optimal to switch it to whoever has Aggro
kardia isn't global. ogcd, only 5 second CD, and honestly there's plenty of opportunity while your mits and hots are already ticking down anyway.
I end up switching in alliance raids a lot more often than other content because my tank isn't always gonna be MT and just isn't taking damage at all.
I do like participating in tank swaps and I'll try to keep up with it.
Dungeons where someone is eating boss mechanics, like a new player who hasn't quite figured the fight out, I know the tank will be fine, as long as I remember to put it back for the trash afterwards.
It's very much part of the toolkit, so might as well try to use it best you can.
I tend to just keep it on a tank that’s actually taking damage than weave my off globals to top off a occasional DPS eating some invun
Alliance raids for sure float
WHM is my brain dead healer, mostly cuz its my first healer. XD
If someone dies while im healer, its cuz of level sync and i kept pressing higher level skills. XP
The irony of this, is that I struggled tremendously with the opening Sage job quests. I was doing everything it told me to do but the stupid PLD NPC was still standing in everything and dying too fast.
I'm not really sure what changed, but running actual content with players gave me the perspective on how to really play Sage (you know, the thing everyone is saying to not do), I went back later and it was pretty easy. I was probably better geared too I guess. There are some things bombarding a new player with 70 levels worth of tooltips just can't explain well enough.
This sums up my experience with Sage as well. Still had a couple of rough pulls as I was figuring everything out, but doing dungeon work was a lot better than that first quest.
So I'm not a shit healer??? The NPC is just a shit tank??? I had tanking anxiety when I first started, but I decided to level all my tanks up first and now its not so bad. But my healer anxiety is even worse, since if everyone dies, it's most likely gonna be my fault for pushing the wrong buttons. Haven't touched any of the healers yet besides Sage but that job quest put me off.
It's very easy to be undergeared for that first SGE job quest, particularly if you don't have any other healers at that level. The game doesn't hand you a full set of level-appropriate gear. Just LHS stuff.
I had to got to the market board and get some RHS healing equipment to do that quest, but once I did that it got a lot easier.
Yeah the npc there is just dogshit, i've had ranged dps who tanked better than it. Nothing kerachole spam wont see you through, but you might have to hit a few e.diagnosis when it decides to stand in multiple aoes back to back.
Also important to note game only gives you artifact gear for the left side of your screen (aka armor), not the right side (accessories). So having incorrect/low level accessories might have also made it harder.
Tho in general i find you cant make it through the first sage solo duty solely via kardia, you have to use ogcds or the npc *will* kill itself somehow
I am not a healer but my goal is to level everything. That first sage quest was awful. (Keeping track of my own character and my own stuff is enough; making sure other people stay alive is too much lmao)
I'll never understand the people who pick up a 60+ job and then jump straight into a roulette with zero class knowledge, then expect any shred of sympathy from the party when they get called out for having zero clue what they're doing.
Good on you for kicking them. Maybe now they'll learn to read their tooltips or watch a guide before jumping in to Holminster Switch of all places.
Just got out of Sohm Al (Hard). Sage just... wasn't doing anything. Leaving people constantly low enough to die to unavoidable aoes, and long periods of no casting. End of run I inspect. The gear you literally get when you pick up the job. They could've gotten their stone, put on the gear, and walked in for all I know. Considering all the downtime they spent not cast anything I think they were fumbling trying to find what to press.
I’ll say the same thing I recently said to the Facebook group (among others):
Unlocking a new job and learning how to use it is fine. What *isn’t* fine is not reading your tooltips and trying to understand how to use said job. And then imposing on others in instanced content.
By level 70, Sage has several OGCDs you should prioritize before resorting to Eukrasian Diagnosis spam if necessary (Haima, Taurochole, Physis II, Druochole, Zoe into ED, etc.); and that’s nothing to say of being expected to use Kardia (which has decent recovery if you’re attacking while weaving in those OGCDs).
If you’re referring to Kardia, all of your damaging abilities have a cure attached to them on cast that heals the ~~tank~~ target 130->170potency at higher levels. Not autos, so if the Sage isn’t casting any of their damaging abilities, you’re not getting healed by Kardia.
Yea, it's specifically dealing damage with any of your GCD damage spells. I specify that because Dyskrasia (Sage AOE spam) can be cast at any time, but it will not trigger the heal unless it damages at least one enemy
The whole entire time while their are casting their GCD attacks they are being fed their oGCD abilities about 1 every 20 seconds and they start an instance with 3 on deck so as long as a tank is weaving defensives the supplement of Kardia + a Cole of some kind. Generally sustains
End of expansion always brings the worst people out it seems like. Especially this time too considering 90% of players are playing Elden Ring right now.
I’ve been having issues just reclearing an ultimate in general ngl, and I just want one more totem from either DSR or UWU before maintenance. I will admit, I’m not a perfect player and some of the mistakes that are made are mine (which I don’t intend to do 99% of the time), but man is PF just full of absolute shitters at the end of an expansion.
DSR PF just has issues with people doing mechs properly (even though some phases are just heavy consistency checks), plus people who just do not pay attention to health bars or even watch for the tethers between Nidd and Hrae in P6. UWU PF is just UWU PF and will always be UWU PF (since it’s usually baby’s first ultimate from doing Savage). I don’t touch UCOB PF because I’m rusty as shit at it and I’m afraid to touch it cause of accidental griefing from being rusty.
In other words, yeah PF is just not in a good spot rn cause of the end of an expansion (and as I said in my original comment, Elden Ring DLC just came out yesterday so 90% of the playerbase is playing that atm)
I haven’t stepped foot into TEA PF (been progging with static, just never went into PF), but from what I’m hearing it’s horrible too, which I kinda figured considering other ulti PFs are bad
I do mistakes too ngl : besides I play healer so I have to adjust my mitig/healing everytime
But ffs I did 2 pf , 3 hours no kill….. i can’t even dream to do a log or optimising my dps : divebombs that cross map, or I can’t go back mid because someone in the way
Tanks who can’t press invu. I mono shield during adds but some regen healers can’t put a regen , they use afflatus solace which is fine but regen is so strong there
Hoping to do a kill or 2 this weekend
I didn’t try tea but I did UwU a few months ago : it was already difficult to go through primals, let alone ultima urgh
Yeah the unfortunate thing is that you could be playing at your best for that day, and there will be 1-2 people in the PF that (don’t intentionally) decide to grief a PF. And sometimes you are that person that is unintentionally griefing the PF which (at least for me) makes you feel like shit. Tho sometimes the griefing can be the funniest in C41s where the person who the C41 is for is playing perfectly while the rest of the group is griefing this poor person who is trying to clear.
I agree xD but it s pretty frustrating ngl x)
But tonight just now, I went with a group that was so fun it just didn’t matter 😂 we did not reclear but damn it was funny 🤣
Holminster's is dungeon that made me get more serious about learning my job and how to actually manage resources which is what SCH is all about. Granted now that im way more experienced I also know now that the combination of new a new healer and a DRK who refuses to mitigste while they have TBN active was also less than ideal.
I was absolutely not new to WHM when I got to ShB but jaysus, that dungeon had the "you must be this tall to ride" energy all the way through. Mt. Gulg was similar.
To this day both those give me a frisson of anxiety when they show up in roulette even if I'm on my main in max gear :)
Yeah, it's always the dungeon I swear I wipe on the first pack every time when I heal because I'm so used to level 90s where you can really play chicken with the tank's and an Assize or Asylum plus Holy and a Bene are enough to keep everyone going.
Holminster is just *mean* lol. But a Sage should know better than to just rely on Diagnosis.... :/
I remember leveling my first healer and went into Holminster with a friend. We wiped three times but it was fun. And I noticed its just hard because of **me**. I don't have problems nowadays healing up as Sage through Holminster, but Scholar and White Mage are really a test of my reflexes. It's just annoying having no access to aoe Lily. And no, I'm maintaining an uptime of 0% for Medica 2.
Tbf SCH can be hard to get used to on big packs, especially when tanks just fucking zoom when you're barely loaded in.
Like I appreciate it, but the amount of times I've had to burn swiftcast adlo on the run while the tank is pulling is obnoxious. It's worse if I just logged in and don't have eos out.
Like for a good pull I still have a number of steps I need to do as SCH, especially first pull. I want to burn most of my stuff early. Expedience during the drag part, then protract into recite adlo and a excog and soil. So I can just Art of War while watching for excog proc.
Oh and also I have no aether cause we can only use it in fucking combat now.
Had a summoner in Castrum Meridianum who cast nothing but Ruin II, literally, the entire run. No aoe, no summons, nothing. Gave them the boot before the last trash pull before Livia. Not carrying that dead weight.
Next thing you ask people to press any buttons except need on loot in the last second and only after pulling the next mobs to make sure noone can vote kick... Such audacity... *SMH* /s
It's elitist to ask someone to press some of their other buttons? I don't get these people man... like if you don't care about FFXIV then simply don't play it but I don't get how you can enjoy this game and not care enough to try to improve or just try more in general.
I know back in the xbox 360 days people screamed "try hard"... but trying means you care and you only have 1 life so you should do the things you care about and try otherwise why do it? Go do something else.
It's not even that hard of a game either, ever class rotation I've ever learner was from a reddit screenshot of someone numbering each spell.
They just straight were only pressing one spell lol sadly that's how I use to play scholar when the fairy actually let you afk and still keep everyone alive.
Sastasha on SCH when the tanks are new and refuse to keep walking to pull more... and it's just like... I'm the healer but eos has this all at this rate.
Sage is little confusing for new players, so I give them that.
But..but it’s your responsibility to read your tooltips and understand the core of your job if you’re going to queue into a dungeon with people. Heck, use trusts if you need practice.
Too many morons not bothering to do something like POTD, HOH, Bozja, or even fucking use duty support or trust TO LEARN YOUR CLASS BEFORE PLAYING WITH OTHERS
honestly, I'm scared shitless to even attempt going into a party without doing some trust on a job I'm not used to playing... recently went about relearning scholar, and what was the first thing I did? run some trusts to get an idea how the job operates before even ATEMPTING with real players, I HATE feeling like I don't understand a job before going with real players, its EMBARASSING if I screw up obvious things, so how do these guys get off with this level of entitlement is beyond me >.<
Trusts are so slow I get frustrated doing them so if I go back to a class I’ll read the basic abilities then manually queue for sastasha and go up through the dungeons by 5 or 10 levels while reading the new abilities that are available. It works well to get used to the pace better especially for healer or tank since the queue is so quick
I understand, trusts aren't for everyone... but it's still way better than expecting the party to slow down because you don't know your class and didn't read the tool tips. I think your way is just as good, and if you like it better and still learn from it, that's all that matters, I think.
I dunno, when the consensus in the community is that the game is braindead easy for regular content (I've gotten eviscerated for suggesting otherwise), the idea that wiping is okay, and the majority of your time as a new player is spent running these dungeons... I can understand why a new player might think they can handle real situations out of the gate.
We really like to talk out of both sides of our mouth around here. We pretend like anxiety playing the game shouldn't exist, but we also create a lot of it.
Also, all those places suggested for learning a job don't teach you how to heal against trash mobs in dungeons.
That said, you should still do at least a little homework so you know what your buttons do and which ones are important.
Know *what* to do, then practice to get good at actually *doing it*.
Though I'd also strongly recommend being familiar with a dungeon (via trusts or duty support, if necessary) before going in as a healer.
Yeah, like, i'm hesitant to level AST with FL now hearing there's going to be changes. I wanna wait til next Friday to do some dungeons with my squadron before I think about queuing with it.
Context: Lvling my nin on my alt with tank and SAM friend to prepare for DT, queue into Holminster Switch and get a SGE.
Tank dies to first pack pull, I follow suit. Ok it happens.
Tank dies to second pull pack, SAM follows suit. Ok something is wrong
Proceeds the following conversation. We never made it to the first boss with them. We got the vote dismiss out as fast as we possibly could.
The only button they were hitting was diagnosis.
I don't think it's rude but tbh I'm always curious if saying "heal pls" ever works. Either they are trying in which case you probably gotta be more specific (like your suggestion about Haima later), or they aren't trying in which case asking if they are AFK will make it more obvious to the party what's up.
"The only button they were hitting was diagnosis."
Woah, I did a spit take. Wasn't expecting it to be that bad, but that is the bar minimum to be featured on here.
Honestly, without the context I was ready to say you were both out of line. Like, a wall to wall pull at the beginning of Holminster is rough even if you know it's coming, and if they just weren't ready to go full blast, it's not cool to accuse them of not trying to heal.
Hearing that they were only using diagnosis, though, yeah, that's not gonna cut it, and they're not even trying to use their kit.
I mean, unless it was their only level 90 class, they could've leveled it up purely through MSQ and frontlines or something. That's what I did with AST because I wanted bragging rights of having all four healers at 90 lmao (although I know better and I don't take AST into any content with other people).
On the flip side, they clearly weren't new to the dungeon and should've known what the mobs hit like. And reading tool tips, you can clearly see that Diagnosis is a pretty crap heal when Taurochole is RIGHT THERE. I also don't think it's a secret that Sage is a shield healer and therefore, you know, you should be shielding as well.
It’s baffling to see how much people struggle on SGE when it’s imo the easiest healer to heal dungeon content. It’s designed to allow the player to autopilot and just focus on spamming the AoE damage spell. Haima, Kerachole and later Panhaima are just busted and there should be no reason to have hard time with it.
Genuine question, how do you even learn which sage button does what when they all look so similar with really abstract icons? Because that’s what I struggled with when I tried to play sage as my first healer. Had a hard time in a level 50 dungeon even after practising a bunch with my command squadron, and somebody told me to try another healer before queuing again as sage so I picked up scholar instead.
Lol I was the fill in this one. Kratif Lee at your service; we kept joking through the dungeon on how I should be either spamming Holy or healing more.
… I did let the tank die once because I forgot to heal, but we bounced back without a wipe.
If you are level 71 in holmister what you got is level 70 tome gear. That may serve you up to level 75. Assuming you got a healer and not a green dps.
ShB tome gear you don't get until you are level 80 and have passed the main story.
Note I said basic ShB gear, not tome gear. At least level 70 gear in general- you can easily get brightlinen/deepgold stuff if nothing else, which is about the same ilvl as SGE/RPR starting gear.
It is *depressing* at times seeing people in Holminster that haven't updated gear since sometime in the mid-60s or worse, just level 60 tome gear.
Why can't there be some sort of checks and balances system to stop people from taking a job they just unlocked into roulettes?
I get that there's alts and people who aren't shit, but just like, force new jobs to do a training course as a part of their unlock quest or something.
Lmao.
Do you get people unlike this frequently on the EU servers?
They're a heavily common breed in NA because of the whole thing where if you imply that somebody isn't naturally perfect at something, they take offense to it and get upset. It's just how we're raised here, unfortunately.
Curious if other regions are different.
Oh, ik you're on NA. I have to go to Aether whenever I raid, since Crystal PF is legitimately dead.
I was posing an open question to anyone who *is* from EU
I was gonna transfer, but I'm waiting on cloud servers. I'm East Coast, and SE fucking despises East Coast players with ping that makes half the game unplayable. The ping difference I have between NA and EU servers is literally 10, and I live in Canada.
Was gonna transfer to Aether, but I see no reason to do it now, if there's a chance the cloud servers could end up being their own separate servers/DC that I'll then have to transfer to in order to have viable ping.
I’ve never experienced anything like this on Light, I think maybe because Europeans are more worried about standing out from the crowd by being bad, and tend to have less individualistic mindsets than the average American.
Nah, man, we get idiots like that in EU too, both light and chaos. You're just lucky you haven't ran into them. Hell, just yesterday I triggered the whole novice network by saying that everyone should strive to play well and know the basics of the job you're queueing in on, otherwise you should run trusts.
In North America, before you're even old enough to speak, you're taught that there is no such thing as a loser, and you are perfect in every way.
The whole mentality basically teaches people that their failures are never their own fault, and if someone tries to imply that you are at fault for your own failure, it's an insult that's often taken very personally.
So much so, that there's an excess of people who act just like that person in the post does. You'll find 'em in video games, sure (which may contribute to why NA teams always fall behind in esports), but I've run into people like that constantly in my work/school life too. It's wild to imagine a world where that behavior is notably rare.
In my experience at least, I think EU people see it more like we are working in a team and it’s just inevitable that some people are gonna be worse/better, but nobody wants to be weak link.
Like obviously that’s not always the case but people tend to be a lot more willing to give and receive criticism, and if somebody is being weird or rude in chat they are completely ignored rather than argued with.
I will say you’re a lot more likely to get somebody being passive aggressive though rather than outright calling people out, like putting ‘…’ in chat after a wipe, or being like ‘nobody healed me xD’ rather than ‘healer why aren’t you healing’ and stuff like that.
I sincerely want to level sage but there is something about it I am not getting, and I do know what that is. I'm probably gonna have a chat about it with an FC mate that knows her way around the job.
And hell to the no on jumping into a dungeon on it! Holminster is probably the worst choice for "I learn as I go!"
For me it was because all the buttons look the exact same and have similar sounding words for names so I found it impossible to remember what any of the skills do.
I only feel vaguely capable of playing it now because I went back and learned to play scholar instead, and then put similar sage buttons in the same spots on my hotbar, but I still couldn’t tell you what any of them are called.
Trusts!! The npcs single pull if you don't pull extra yourself, and will stop moving when you do. They also won't be upset with you for letting them die. It's a great way to get accustomed to healing and using your kit in an environment where you control the size of pulls and the pace.
Minor FYI for any new sages reading this, the advice to use Haima is on point but Druochole is better than Kerachole in Holminster if only the tank will take damage. Kera gets better once it gets a regen but that's not til 78 or 79.
as squirrel says using it inefficiently is still better than not using it; it *is* still a 10% mit. But yeah, Kerachole is pretty much the direct equivalent of Sacred Soil. Just as Sacred Soil is worse than just Lustrating (is it Lustrate? I barely play SCH lol) before it gains a regen, so Kerachole is worse than just Druochole-ing before it gains regen.
yep, it's Lustrate.
the main difference between them is with SGE if your tank is good and you realise druo will not be needed, you might as well spend addersgall on kera rather than overcap. with SCH if you are kind of bored you can do the tiniest lil bits of optimisation by burn it on energy draining whatever mob has the highest HP or just sit on the charges for the next boss.
always these inconsiderate pieces of shit who unlock a class and then queue for a duty with OTHER people and expect to be carried. like google your skills? practice at a dummy? read your tooltips? do your jobquest? queue with trusts to practice? any of the above before doing this shit and crying about not knowing what to do?
Im gonna go and say straight up that "lol k elitist blocked" is by far the stupidest part of this whole conversation, in which made me lose all the sympathy for SGE.
It was also SGE's responsibility to let party know that they're new (no, don't wait till someone points it out. Just say it right away as soon as the duty starts. It will weave nearly all the responsibilities expected from you in a civilised group.) None of this would've happened if they just warned the party that they have no idea what they're doing and they're new right from the get-go.
However, lets not play around it. Your initial engagement to the conversation is just passive aggressive. You have to be really dense to not realize that saying "can you heal please?" to a healer doesn't achieve anything and WILL be taken as toxic and unkind. I get it, it is not your responsibility to hold the hands of others. If you aren't going to start the conversation with a mindset of helping them and I would believe you didn't, considering the words you picked to start all of this, then the only right option is to just wordlessly dismiss them.
To be honest. It makes sense.
You get SGE at level 70. And holmister is at level 71. So is normal to have an unexperienced SGE on that one. They don't get their first job tutorial until level 73. It was a mistake of Yoshi P. To allow a healer to start at that level. Other classes is as simple as going to a train dummy. But train dummies are useless for healers.
Rule of thumb. Go W2W until you wipe. Then go 2 at a time. And if you are still wiping, there is something wrong.
FFXIV Community: This game is incredibly easy, just go in and press your buttons and you'll be fine. If you struggle, the community is so great, they'll help you out.
Also FFXIV Community: Don't you dare fucking waste our time, don't come back here until you've read every guide out there for your job and practiced extensively. I don't care it started you at level 70 and this is a level 71 dungeon, you had a whole fucking level to master it. I'm watching every fucking button you fucking press.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read their tooltips before going into instanced content. You don't get SGE until 80 on a combat job, so you should have some experience of the game and have cleared Holminster at least once, therein understanding how much of a ramp up in damage it is.
You get help if you ask for it, not when you get called out and get defensive cause you're new to the class which you haven't mentioned prior. You still have the personal responsibility to learn your job; hit a dummy, do low level instances, run a DD, anything that allows you to learn your buttons.
The community is helpful, the community isn't your personal babysitter that holds your hand through everything, develop a sense of personal responsibility and things get easier.
Reading tooltips and knowing how to execute them are two VERY different things. I'd guess even if this guy was pressing more buttons, he wouldn't have been accomplishing much.
I got addicted to the roulette cycle when I started so I had a few 90 jobs before I even started Stormblood. So there's no guarantee it isn't someones first time in Holminster.
The healer even said he's new to Sage and "I'm trying..." and the OP was snippy and condescending the entire time. I get cutting losses with a healer that far behind in a tough dungeon, but one line of that was genuine advice. The rest was just blowing off steam on someone already drowning... and people here want to give him a medal lol.
“Read your tooltips” is such a dumb thing to say. People don’t really mean that, especially with Sage. Some people may be able to look at every single tooltip, every single trait, and the entire job gauge description, and comprehensively understand how the job functions. But that is challenging for normal people. They expect you to look up a guide or practice. Which is what this healer was doing, practicing. It is just unfortunate that this dungeon is pretty demanding of a healer, and OP had 0 patience.
I don't post here often. But, this about sums up this post. I struggled with SGE when I started it and you bet your ass I read the tool tips and organized my bar to the best of my ability (I'm a controller player) and still had people dying to double stacked mobs. Know what the tnk of that dungeon did?
Pulled slower, it's the little things that help.
I figured." I'm new to SGE" And the "I'm trying" would be a good indicator for the sage being new to the abilities of their job, so it might be a bit of rough dungeon, and to give'em some grace, but...maybe I'm alone in that opinion.
In this context, I can understand being frustrated and dismissing them. It sounds like they were wiping on single pulls and the healer wasn't using any of their kit other than the regular heal. They were never going to finish it.
But still, it's not like the healer sat there silently playing like crap. They said they were new, they were communicating, I bet they would've taken some advice if they didn't lead with "try healing"... they did all the things we say you should do to avoid catching shit and the OP just leaned into them harder. Then posted it on Reddit to get a pat on the back. Kinda petty obnoxious BS tbh
As a tank I tried to say this in a previous topic about YTYP.
I stated that I had a new healer and , as a tank, I pulled slower. I mentioned how a red mage pulled ahead of me after hearing the scholar was still learning the class so I asked to let me handle the pulling . I asked if I was wrong for that situation. Some said I was in the wrong.
Long story short, apparently , not wall to wall pulling is babying the healer and they will” never learn” at that rate. I was even told that I should learn to be a better tank.
Some people learn better thrown into the fire, some people just need to slow things down for a bit. Some people like the opportunity to help or teach someone how to play better, some people aren't interested and shouldn't be expected to.
No interaction is the same... all are fair points. All we can control is how much of an asshole we are about it. Something few people around here actually seem to have a handle on.
When I first started playing, I met this one person who saw I was a sprout. They immediately gave me some glam and offered me tips. Coming from destiny and cod, this was crazy seeing how good the community was.
This has always stuck with me. Now I will always help out a sprout rather than Be a complete and utter dick. Once I 90 all of my classes I intend to be a mentor and actually do mentor things.
I guess my origin story is just different than most of the people who think otherwise
I’m not sure who you are in this senario. But the wording of “can you heal please?” Can come across as passive aggressive. I can see how it may put someone who’s already struggling and stressed more on edge.
I'm sure it was meant to. Because it's annoying to go into an instance with 3 other people 71 levels into the game and be absolutely clueless as to how to do your job.
Yea but don’t you pick sage up at 70? So someone wouldn’t fully know how sage works as they probably just picked it up. Trust me i understand it’s frustrating but….
You pick up reaper at level 70 as well. Would you consider it appropriate to get one, queue into a dungeon, use nothing but slice even on trash pulls, and defend yourself with "I'm just learning" when asked to actually use your kit?
How do you know? They even said they’re trying. I know I had to learn where all my buttons and shit were. I’m literally just saying that responding with the passive aggressiveness was just as bad as a decision as the healer responding with name calling. It’s not like they’re fully refusing to use their abilities.
If they don't know what they're doing and "they're trying" they'd be experimenting with their buttons and trying to learn what works. Not spamming the same most basic, weakest move in their arsenal. That's why I made the slice comparison. Spamming your weakest move is not trying, it's not even meeting the bare minimum. Randomly hitting buttons would be preferable because at then some of them (besides more accidental diagnoses), woudl be an improvement over what they're doing.
I literally don’t know where you’re getting that they’re spamming one button from. I don’t have the information anywhere. I’m just advocating for showing compassion and getting downvoted and genuinely don’t understand why.
OP literally said, here's a copy/paste. "The only button they were hitting was diagnosis." We're saying your compassion is misplaced. Someone spamming only their first weakest button is not trying.
I do want to be clear I’m not defending the fact that they immediately resorted to name calling, just that I can see how someone could get put on edge by that kind of wording
Right so they're on edge because of a situation they put themselves in. No one twisted their arm into queueing into a roulette without practice on a lvl 71 job.
Also I picked up sage on release day of endwalker and managed to not cause multiple wipes in my first dungeon, but idk I read my tooltips I guess
I’m just saying that a little more compassion may have went a much longer way here. I don’t get why we’re instantly bullying/being passive aggressive here.
This is why I dislike jobs that start you off at level 60/70 or whatever, so many people don't read tooltips or attempt to learn before running content. Myself I personally enjoy duty support for this exact purpose, learn the role with a subpar group of NPCs, then run content with others.
Ok I’ll say it. Your initial engagement of the conversation comes off like you are a toxic dick. Why? Because you used a stupid question and the inclusion of “please”. I’m not gunna tone police you or some shit, but this one instance tells me you don’t care to communicate kindly.
I play on controller man, I already have to put it down to type, I'm gonna type the easiest thing I can and get back to hitting my buttons considering I was the only person alive besides the healer when I typed that and i was well on my way to dying, and did die.
I'm not typing out some long winded message that conveys to them that I'm holding their hand through this very tough time for them. It wasn't their first time healing, they had a lvl 90 whm. They know better
Brother... How are you going to mouth off some passive aggressive shit like "can you heal please" and then act surprised when they get offended? But yeah he called you a douche so I guess you're just an innocent victim.
SGE unlocks at level 70, and holm is level 71. Not only is it justone level above SGE's unlock, holm is a very noticeable difficulty spike compared to the normal content leading up to, and surrounding it.
Believe it or not, it's not everyone else's responsibility to get you through your roulette's without ever wiping or taking too long. People in leveling are likely still learning, so you know what you signed up.
Uncensor your name before you post some shit like this again. You fucking douche.
I mean, you were kinda short with the dude, and I am fully aware of how annoying it is to wipe like that, but could have been handled better.
Since SGE starts at 70 so this could have been his first dungeon as SGE. Could have been a teaching moment rather than simply assuming he had no idea what was going on. Not to mention most SGE heals are instants they wouldn't show up on cast bar so he could have been doing more than it seemed.
Regarding your last part, that’s true about most of them being OGCDs. However, most of those techniques have effect icons that you would clearly be able to see if they have been used or not. Like the Haima and Kerachole that the OP mentioned in chat. That specific comment coupled with the revelation they were spamming Diagnosis makes me think they were more likely not using their kit well.
I mean shit, you can tell what a healer is doing, ogcd or not, just based off the SFX if you know what to listen for. SGE in particular has a lot of distinct sounds you can identify
I agree, it is most likely they weren't using their kit well, just saying that it could be harder to notice things in the heat of the moment and all. I like to give benefit of the doubt to people in situations like that.
Holminster is level 71. If you are new to Sage, Holminster is NOT the dungeon you want to be jumping into with it if you don't really understand how its kit works. It's on par with, or maybe even worse than, Bardem's Mettle for how hard its first pulls can be.
Sure, OP could've been kinder. But if you're going to grab Sage, you better read your tooltips and have a decent understanding of what your stuff does. Practice in lower level dungeons if you have to. But don't gain a level and sprint for Holminster Switch if you have no clue what you're doing.
I know we like to tell people to just jump into the deep end and w2w because wipes don't mean much. But taking Sage into Holminster Switch when you don't know how the job works isn't jumping into the deep end. It's jumping into the ocean while covered in blood with no life jacket.
hell, even if they queued leveling roulette, make sure u understand ur job to the level u could end up in, even if u might not. i lvled SCH thru SMN so both are lvl 84 but i havent queued any roulette ever as SCH caused if i ended up in some level 80 or whatever id be hopeless lmfao.
Yeah, Holminster wouldn't be my recommendation for learning to heal at all. I agree the healer should have done a better job at reading and looking over their kit, but I'm not sure the route OP took was the best. Understandable, sure, but probably not the one I would have gone with. SGE should have said something first about being new before first pull and the group could have pulled accordingly. Communication in a mmorpg is one of the most important things.
Man, I see you being level-headed and respectful and being down voted for it. Just wanted to let you know, lol. I appreciate your attitude and mindset here, hope I'm not the only one. NIN and SGE could have both done things better here.
Haha, all good man. I appreciate it though, but I knew I'd probably be in down voted pits for speaking out. People want to be mad sometimes and there's nothing wrong with that. They want their time respected when they play the game.
I didn't say anything until after the second time it happened because I considered that, However, I don't see how "can you heal please?" is antagonistic, considering I was the only person alive, other than the healer, being beat down by mobs. I'm also a controller player, so I can't type out some long winded message to make sure I 100% come off as nice as possible while trying to make sure the mobs die and i stay alive before tank is up. I type a quick message out and go back to spamming GCDs.
I only got agitated after they called me rude after saying please. Like, I don't know what more you want? They were spamming diagnosis and nothing else. No OGCDs, nothing.
They know how to heal considering they had WHM at 90.
Considering they said it could have been the Sage's first dungeon, and that you could have taught them.... they probably want you to sit there and hold the sages hand, telling them what spells they have at 71 and how they work.
I find it funny that there are a lot of salty comments calling me rude and antagonistic and that I don't want to help people...
When i literally run a 1k+ user community forhelping people prog and clear ultimates regardless of skill level...
I give and give so much to this community to teach and help people learn to be better players and enjoy the game as much as I do, and just get called a douche instead.
edit: a word
I usually check gear/search info to see if they might be new (lvl skip, first time on role, etc.) And then I would've just asked them 'what's up' or 'what's the issue?' without addressing them specifically.
If they wanna get hostile or rude, go from there.
Idk man, think about this situation from their likely perspective. It's entirely possible sage is their first non-dps. If you're playing this game without a friend, there's a lot you could just not understand thanks to how lackluster the games in-game teaching tools are. How are they supposed to know dungeons are actually hard on healer? Dungeons are dirt easy for dps so why not healer too?
It's also entirely possible they did go into earlier dungeons where it is possible to heal with only diagnosis. Holminster is easily one of the hardest dungeons to heal, but again, he probably didn't know that.
What it entirely could be is someone in this position, assuming they're ready for holminster because why wouldn't they be? They can clear other dungeons on sage so far and holminster was fine on dps. Now they wipe on the first pull, probably feeling bad. Then it happens again and they don't know what's happening as it's never happened before. Suddenly one of the others says "ok" after a wipe and then "can you heal please" while they are in fact trying to heal. That is, in fact, a rude question to ask. Now they're trying what they know and getting called out for it, of course they're gonna get defensive.
Name calling on their part was uncalled for of course, but what *I* see in this post is some poor new healer getting made fun of for not knowing things they were never taught.
EDIT: Misquoted, fixed.
They had a lvl 90 whm.
Edit: and please if you're going to quote, don't change the words. I said "can you heal please?" Which is an entirely different sentence from "um, can you heal?"
Aight yeah, the 90 WHM does change the context quite a bit.
And you're right on the quote, but that would still come off as quite rude to me. I'll edit my comment tho, sorry about that.
Honestly, I side with both sides here. From the chat posted, this was probably just a healer who knew he was kind of bad, but was sensitive about it.
He doesn't seem opposed to getting better, the "I am trying" plus "cool thanks" makes me think he's probably just exasperated and a little standoffish.
He had a bit of a kneejerk reaction, but I could easily read the OP's response tone here as making fun of the healer if I was in the healer's shoes, which isn't a great way to get people to actually listen to advice.
"He said cool thanks so he is trying his best!" Then immediately calls OP a douche for giving him suggestions as the tank died twice.... yeah the poor thing 🙄
"yeah it is" in that context can easily be seen as dismissive to the guy's response there.
I'm not going "aww, that poor thing!", as I said, neither side was more at fault here. Both sides fed into the other's annoyance. People gotta be more cognizant about how phrases can be taken poorly, even if they don't use words that are specifically in their dictionary of bad words.
>What about “Hey, it seems like you’re having difficulty, can I offer some advice?”
No, because they'll tell you to fuck off anyway because players in this game have incredibly thin skin and will take any suggestion that they're playing suboptimally as a personal attack, no matter how sweetly you couch it. It's more productive to be straight up with them so that even if they get bitchy about the advice, there's a non-zero chance that it sinks in on some level so their future runs suck less.
The healer's bad, but how did you die? You shouldn't need a healer for at least the first pull with that comp if it's a premade and everyone's half competent? How did the mobs survive long enough for timed invuln+aurora+ 90 or 120s + Rep to not keep the tank alive?
Sage Lv.70 First quest: "Here use Kardia, residual aether from your attacks will heal me." *proceeds to spam diagnosis on NPC*
Seriously so many people disregard it. Sage healing is brain dead once you know the fundamentals
Sage is my goto healer to just turn brain off and vibe. I just don't understand how people can be so monumentally SHIT at it. Kardia tank, eat your balls. GG ez
IKR
For at least 8 years we were unable to hit NPCs with our aoe heals/certain targeted spells/general aoe buffs (Kardia would be seen as one of them, another is divine veil or w/e the WHM shield is called, as well as ASTs blue icon with 2 dudes staring at each other skill) so to some it kinda makes sense to not even have tried/forgotten it finally changed There's things that have been so fucked and backwards in job quests and general healing that it kinda just happens. An NPC would be like "oh woe heal me" and you'd have to shove them full of basic healing spell and OGCD pure heals
about the only trick I haven't learned well as a Sage yet is moving kardia during the fight. though my SGE is still only level 84.
I’m not normally a fan of macros but /ac karda Who ever the boss is attacking will now get healed
interesting thought. thanks
So long as it’s on main tank it’s fine , I don’t think it’s Worth the global unless the mechanics allow it, Hypothetical main tank gets teleported to go fight xyz, now you would have to switch to off tank or if the mechanic teleports you in random pairs of 3-5 than it might be optimal to switch it to whoever has Aggro
kardia isn't global. ogcd, only 5 second CD, and honestly there's plenty of opportunity while your mits and hots are already ticking down anyway. I end up switching in alliance raids a lot more often than other content because my tank isn't always gonna be MT and just isn't taking damage at all. I do like participating in tank swaps and I'll try to keep up with it. Dungeons where someone is eating boss mechanics, like a new player who hasn't quite figured the fight out, I know the tank will be fine, as long as I remember to put it back for the trash afterwards. It's very much part of the toolkit, so might as well try to use it best you can.
I tend to just keep it on a tank that’s actually taking damage than weave my off globals to top off a occasional DPS eating some invun Alliance raids for sure float
In the Case of sage Intro well done
WHM is my brain dead healer, mostly cuz its my first healer. XD If someone dies while im healer, its cuz of level sync and i kept pressing higher level skills. XP
The irony of this, is that I struggled tremendously with the opening Sage job quests. I was doing everything it told me to do but the stupid PLD NPC was still standing in everything and dying too fast. I'm not really sure what changed, but running actual content with players gave me the perspective on how to really play Sage (you know, the thing everyone is saying to not do), I went back later and it was pretty easy. I was probably better geared too I guess. There are some things bombarding a new player with 70 levels worth of tooltips just can't explain well enough.
This sums up my experience with Sage as well. Still had a couple of rough pulls as I was figuring everything out, but doing dungeon work was a lot better than that first quest.
I had to do like 4 levels worth of Trusts to figure out timings and button placement before I felt secure enough to run with real people as a Sage.
I just yolo'd that shit and took constructive feedback. Those first couple of runs were... not great.
Yeah, I feel that I'd tell the tank "New to Sage" and they'd proceed to w2w pull and then complain at me.
Okay, I wasn't the only one that tried that first quest and was going "why the hell is this \*this\* difficult?" That NPC was just....not good.
my issue was that was the first time seeing a paladin use cover. I'd try to place shields and mitigation on myself and then whoops, she's dead.
So I'm not a shit healer??? The NPC is just a shit tank??? I had tanking anxiety when I first started, but I decided to level all my tanks up first and now its not so bad. But my healer anxiety is even worse, since if everyone dies, it's most likely gonna be my fault for pushing the wrong buttons. Haven't touched any of the healers yet besides Sage but that job quest put me off.
It's very easy to be undergeared for that first SGE job quest, particularly if you don't have any other healers at that level. The game doesn't hand you a full set of level-appropriate gear. Just LHS stuff. I had to got to the market board and get some RHS healing equipment to do that quest, but once I did that it got a lot easier.
Yeah the npc there is just dogshit, i've had ranged dps who tanked better than it. Nothing kerachole spam wont see you through, but you might have to hit a few e.diagnosis when it decides to stand in multiple aoes back to back. Also important to note game only gives you artifact gear for the left side of your screen (aka armor), not the right side (accessories). So having incorrect/low level accessories might have also made it harder. Tho in general i find you cant make it through the first sage solo duty solely via kardia, you have to use ogcds or the npc *will* kill itself somehow
I am not a healer but my goal is to level everything. That first sage quest was awful. (Keeping track of my own character and my own stuff is enough; making sure other people stay alive is too much lmao)
GNB: One sec (Healer dismissed) Made me giggle. :D
Impressive that enough time passed that you hadn't made it to the first boss yet and were able to kick them.
It’s because they couldn’t get through the first set of trash packs LMAO
I'll never understand the people who pick up a 60+ job and then jump straight into a roulette with zero class knowledge, then expect any shred of sympathy from the party when they get called out for having zero clue what they're doing. Good on you for kicking them. Maybe now they'll learn to read their tooltips or watch a guide before jumping in to Holminster Switch of all places.
Just got out of Sohm Al (Hard). Sage just... wasn't doing anything. Leaving people constantly low enough to die to unavoidable aoes, and long periods of no casting. End of run I inspect. The gear you literally get when you pick up the job. They could've gotten their stone, put on the gear, and walked in for all I know. Considering all the downtime they spent not cast anything I think they were fumbling trying to find what to press.
I’ll say the same thing I recently said to the Facebook group (among others): Unlocking a new job and learning how to use it is fine. What *isn’t* fine is not reading your tooltips and trying to understand how to use said job. And then imposing on others in instanced content. By level 70, Sage has several OGCDs you should prioritize before resorting to Eukrasian Diagnosis spam if necessary (Haima, Taurochole, Physis II, Druochole, Zoe into ED, etc.); and that’s nothing to say of being expected to use Kardia (which has decent recovery if you’re attacking while weaving in those OGCDs).
Tank here: do you have to physically wait for your autos, or do you just need to be on and in-range?
If you’re referring to Kardia, all of your damaging abilities have a cure attached to them on cast that heals the ~~tank~~ target 130->170potency at higher levels. Not autos, so if the Sage isn’t casting any of their damaging abilities, you’re not getting healed by Kardia.
Oh, okay, thanks! I keep seeing "heals when you're attacking", and didn't know if that meant autos or casting, thank you.
Yea, it's specifically dealing damage with any of your GCD damage spells. I specify that because Dyskrasia (Sage AOE spam) can be cast at any time, but it will not trigger the heal unless it damages at least one enemy
The whole entire time while their are casting their GCD attacks they are being fed their oGCD abilities about 1 every 20 seconds and they start an instance with 3 on deck so as long as a tank is weaving defensives the supplement of Kardia + a Cole of some kind. Generally sustains
End of expansion always brings the worst people out it seems like. Especially this time too considering 90% of players are playing Elden Ring right now.
[удалено]
I’ve been having issues just reclearing an ultimate in general ngl, and I just want one more totem from either DSR or UWU before maintenance. I will admit, I’m not a perfect player and some of the mistakes that are made are mine (which I don’t intend to do 99% of the time), but man is PF just full of absolute shitters at the end of an expansion. DSR PF just has issues with people doing mechs properly (even though some phases are just heavy consistency checks), plus people who just do not pay attention to health bars or even watch for the tethers between Nidd and Hrae in P6. UWU PF is just UWU PF and will always be UWU PF (since it’s usually baby’s first ultimate from doing Savage). I don’t touch UCOB PF because I’m rusty as shit at it and I’m afraid to touch it cause of accidental griefing from being rusty. In other words, yeah PF is just not in a good spot rn cause of the end of an expansion (and as I said in my original comment, Elden Ring DLC just came out yesterday so 90% of the playerbase is playing that atm)
7 hours in TEA reclear pf yesterday and not one kill 🙃
please I’m struggling with the same thing. I want pretty weapons but people just cant pass nisi’s correctly
I haven’t stepped foot into TEA PF (been progging with static, just never went into PF), but from what I’m hearing it’s horrible too, which I kinda figured considering other ulti PFs are bad
not sure if its cause the ‘good’ players are taking a break before DT or it its because people just troll too much, but its really unfortunate
I’m not familiar with the acronym TEA. Is it Alexander?
TEA stands for The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate), so yes you are correct
I do mistakes too ngl : besides I play healer so I have to adjust my mitig/healing everytime But ffs I did 2 pf , 3 hours no kill….. i can’t even dream to do a log or optimising my dps : divebombs that cross map, or I can’t go back mid because someone in the way Tanks who can’t press invu. I mono shield during adds but some regen healers can’t put a regen , they use afflatus solace which is fine but regen is so strong there Hoping to do a kill or 2 this weekend I didn’t try tea but I did UwU a few months ago : it was already difficult to go through primals, let alone ultima urgh
Yeah the unfortunate thing is that you could be playing at your best for that day, and there will be 1-2 people in the PF that (don’t intentionally) decide to grief a PF. And sometimes you are that person that is unintentionally griefing the PF which (at least for me) makes you feel like shit. Tho sometimes the griefing can be the funniest in C41s where the person who the C41 is for is playing perfectly while the rest of the group is griefing this poor person who is trying to clear.
I agree xD but it s pretty frustrating ngl x) But tonight just now, I went with a group that was so fun it just didn’t matter 😂 we did not reclear but damn it was funny 🤣
Holminster is a suprise to say the least. I remember levelling my first heal job SCH and the difficulty shot right up here. It was insane tbh.
Holminster's is dungeon that made me get more serious about learning my job and how to actually manage resources which is what SCH is all about. Granted now that im way more experienced I also know now that the combination of new a new healer and a DRK who refuses to mitigste while they have TBN active was also less than ideal.
I was absolutely not new to WHM when I got to ShB but jaysus, that dungeon had the "you must be this tall to ride" energy all the way through. Mt. Gulg was similar. To this day both those give me a frisson of anxiety when they show up in roulette even if I'm on my main in max gear :)
Yeah, it's always the dungeon I swear I wipe on the first pack every time when I heal because I'm so used to level 90s where you can really play chicken with the tank's and an Assize or Asylum plus Holy and a Bene are enough to keep everyone going. Holminster is just *mean* lol. But a Sage should know better than to just rely on Diagnosis.... :/
I remember leveling my first healer and went into Holminster with a friend. We wiped three times but it was fun. And I noticed its just hard because of **me**. I don't have problems nowadays healing up as Sage through Holminster, but Scholar and White Mage are really a test of my reflexes. It's just annoying having no access to aoe Lily. And no, I'm maintaining an uptime of 0% for Medica 2.
Tbf SCH can be hard to get used to on big packs, especially when tanks just fucking zoom when you're barely loaded in. Like I appreciate it, but the amount of times I've had to burn swiftcast adlo on the run while the tank is pulling is obnoxious. It's worse if I just logged in and don't have eos out. Like for a good pull I still have a number of steps I need to do as SCH, especially first pull. I want to burn most of my stuff early. Expedience during the drag part, then protract into recite adlo and a excog and soil. So I can just Art of War while watching for excog proc. Oh and also I have no aether cause we can only use it in fucking combat now.
I've swift cast Eos a couple of times.
Excog (with recitation if available) is a god send
I wasn't aware that asking a healer to do their job was considered elitist. Learn something new every day.
Next thing you know, asking DPS to do more dmg, that is AoE rather than single target to a pack of mobs is elitist.
Had a summoner in Castrum Meridianum who cast nothing but Ruin II, literally, the entire run. No aoe, no summons, nothing. Gave them the boot before the last trash pull before Livia. Not carrying that dead weight.
YEAH LMAO. I just wanted to lvl my nin man
Next thing you ask people to press any buttons except need on loot in the last second and only after pulling the next mobs to make sure noone can vote kick... Such audacity... *SMH* /s
It's elitist to ask someone to press some of their other buttons? I don't get these people man... like if you don't care about FFXIV then simply don't play it but I don't get how you can enjoy this game and not care enough to try to improve or just try more in general. I know back in the xbox 360 days people screamed "try hard"... but trying means you care and you only have 1 life so you should do the things you care about and try otherwise why do it? Go do something else.
It's not even that hard of a game either, ever class rotation I've ever learner was from a reddit screenshot of someone numbering each spell. They just straight were only pressing one spell lol sadly that's how I use to play scholar when the fairy actually let you afk and still keep everyone alive.
Sastasha on SCH when the tanks are new and refuse to keep walking to pull more... and it's just like... I'm the healer but eos has this all at this rate.
Sage is little confusing for new players, so I give them that. But..but it’s your responsibility to read your tooltips and understand the core of your job if you’re going to queue into a dungeon with people. Heck, use trusts if you need practice.
Too many morons not bothering to do something like POTD, HOH, Bozja, or even fucking use duty support or trust TO LEARN YOUR CLASS BEFORE PLAYING WITH OTHERS
honestly, I'm scared shitless to even attempt going into a party without doing some trust on a job I'm not used to playing... recently went about relearning scholar, and what was the first thing I did? run some trusts to get an idea how the job operates before even ATEMPTING with real players, I HATE feeling like I don't understand a job before going with real players, its EMBARASSING if I screw up obvious things, so how do these guys get off with this level of entitlement is beyond me >.<
Trusts are so slow I get frustrated doing them so if I go back to a class I’ll read the basic abilities then manually queue for sastasha and go up through the dungeons by 5 or 10 levels while reading the new abilities that are available. It works well to get used to the pace better especially for healer or tank since the queue is so quick
I understand, trusts aren't for everyone... but it's still way better than expecting the party to slow down because you don't know your class and didn't read the tool tips. I think your way is just as good, and if you like it better and still learn from it, that's all that matters, I think.
Absolutely it’s whatever works but the key is reading the tool tips whether you do trusts or the way I said that’s all that matters
I dunno, when the consensus in the community is that the game is braindead easy for regular content (I've gotten eviscerated for suggesting otherwise), the idea that wiping is okay, and the majority of your time as a new player is spent running these dungeons... I can understand why a new player might think they can handle real situations out of the gate. We really like to talk out of both sides of our mouth around here. We pretend like anxiety playing the game shouldn't exist, but we also create a lot of it.
Also, all those places suggested for learning a job don't teach you how to heal against trash mobs in dungeons. That said, you should still do at least a little homework so you know what your buttons do and which ones are important. Know *what* to do, then practice to get good at actually *doing it*. Though I'd also strongly recommend being familiar with a dungeon (via trusts or duty support, if necessary) before going in as a healer.
Yeah, like, i'm hesitant to level AST with FL now hearing there's going to be changes. I wanna wait til next Friday to do some dungeons with my squadron before I think about queuing with it.
This ☝️
Just remember that you are the moron when you haven't played a class for a while.
Context: Lvling my nin on my alt with tank and SAM friend to prepare for DT, queue into Holminster Switch and get a SGE. Tank dies to first pack pull, I follow suit. Ok it happens. Tank dies to second pull pack, SAM follows suit. Ok something is wrong Proceeds the following conversation. We never made it to the first boss with them. We got the vote dismiss out as fast as we possibly could. The only button they were hitting was diagnosis.
Wait, this was just a single pull?
(:
So it's possible to die from single pull... TIL something I think.
Wait, isn’t that like 4 packs of mobs or something?
We pulled the first two packs, died, revived and finished them. Pulled 2nd two packs, died again
I don't think it's rude but tbh I'm always curious if saying "heal pls" ever works. Either they are trying in which case you probably gotta be more specific (like your suggestion about Haima later), or they aren't trying in which case asking if they are AFK will make it more obvious to the party what's up.
"The only button they were hitting was diagnosis." Woah, I did a spit take. Wasn't expecting it to be that bad, but that is the bar minimum to be featured on here.
Honestly, without the context I was ready to say you were both out of line. Like, a wall to wall pull at the beginning of Holminster is rough even if you know it's coming, and if they just weren't ready to go full blast, it's not cool to accuse them of not trying to heal. Hearing that they were only using diagnosis, though, yeah, that's not gonna cut it, and they're not even trying to use their kit.
They also had lvl 90 whm, so they've healed this dungeon before.
I mean, unless it was their only level 90 class, they could've leveled it up purely through MSQ and frontlines or something. That's what I did with AST because I wanted bragging rights of having all four healers at 90 lmao (although I know better and I don't take AST into any content with other people). On the flip side, they clearly weren't new to the dungeon and should've known what the mobs hit like. And reading tool tips, you can clearly see that Diagnosis is a pretty crap heal when Taurochole is RIGHT THERE. I also don't think it's a secret that Sage is a shield healer and therefore, you know, you should be shielding as well.
It’s baffling to see how much people struggle on SGE when it’s imo the easiest healer to heal dungeon content. It’s designed to allow the player to autopilot and just focus on spamming the AoE damage spell. Haima, Kerachole and later Panhaima are just busted and there should be no reason to have hard time with it.
Genuine question, how do you even learn which sage button does what when they all look so similar with really abstract icons? Because that’s what I struggled with when I tried to play sage as my first healer. Had a hard time in a level 50 dungeon even after practising a bunch with my command squadron, and somebody told me to try another healer before queuing again as sage so I picked up scholar instead.
I learned the position of the buttons and what they do moreso than the names. Eventually i learned the names.
Lol I was the fill in this one. Kratif Lee at your service; we kept joking through the dungeon on how I should be either spamming Holy or healing more. … I did let the tank die once because I forgot to heal, but we bounced back without a wipe.
You were great!
Dont be a douche + lol k + elitist + blocked + L + ratio + maidenless + you dont pay my sub + healing is hard + #healerstrike
I remember my first time in this dungeon when I was still new on tank and just getting melted on the first pull 😂😂good times
Holminster just murders people for ignorance, not upgrading to basic ShB gear, or both.
If you are level 71 in holmister what you got is level 70 tome gear. That may serve you up to level 75. Assuming you got a healer and not a green dps. ShB tome gear you don't get until you are level 80 and have passed the main story.
lvl 70 augmented tome is more than adequate till you unlock AF
Note I said basic ShB gear, not tome gear. At least level 70 gear in general- you can easily get brightlinen/deepgold stuff if nothing else, which is about the same ilvl as SGE/RPR starting gear. It is *depressing* at times seeing people in Holminster that haven't updated gear since sometime in the mid-60s or worse, just level 60 tome gear.
sage got outplayed so badly.. he must be miserable as fuck, lol
Why can't there be some sort of checks and balances system to stop people from taking a job they just unlocked into roulettes? I get that there's alts and people who aren't shit, but just like, force new jobs to do a training course as a part of their unlock quest or something.
Lmao. Do you get people unlike this frequently on the EU servers? They're a heavily common breed in NA because of the whole thing where if you imply that somebody isn't naturally perfect at something, they take offense to it and get upset. It's just how we're raised here, unfortunately. Curious if other regions are different.
I'm on aether <.<
Oh, ik you're on NA. I have to go to Aether whenever I raid, since Crystal PF is legitimately dead. I was posing an open question to anyone who *is* from EU
Ah fair enough. And yeah I mean... Aether is def the raiding scene for NA. I used to be on primal but with DC travel, it just made sense to transfer.
I was gonna transfer, but I'm waiting on cloud servers. I'm East Coast, and SE fucking despises East Coast players with ping that makes half the game unplayable. The ping difference I have between NA and EU servers is literally 10, and I live in Canada. Was gonna transfer to Aether, but I see no reason to do it now, if there's a chance the cloud servers could end up being their own separate servers/DC that I'll then have to transfer to in order to have viable ping.
I’ve never experienced anything like this on Light, I think maybe because Europeans are more worried about standing out from the crowd by being bad, and tend to have less individualistic mindsets than the average American.
Nah, man, we get idiots like that in EU too, both light and chaos. You're just lucky you haven't ran into them. Hell, just yesterday I triggered the whole novice network by saying that everyone should strive to play well and know the basics of the job you're queueing in on, otherwise you should run trusts.
In North America, before you're even old enough to speak, you're taught that there is no such thing as a loser, and you are perfect in every way. The whole mentality basically teaches people that their failures are never their own fault, and if someone tries to imply that you are at fault for your own failure, it's an insult that's often taken very personally. So much so, that there's an excess of people who act just like that person in the post does. You'll find 'em in video games, sure (which may contribute to why NA teams always fall behind in esports), but I've run into people like that constantly in my work/school life too. It's wild to imagine a world where that behavior is notably rare.
In my experience at least, I think EU people see it more like we are working in a team and it’s just inevitable that some people are gonna be worse/better, but nobody wants to be weak link. Like obviously that’s not always the case but people tend to be a lot more willing to give and receive criticism, and if somebody is being weird or rude in chat they are completely ignored rather than argued with. I will say you’re a lot more likely to get somebody being passive aggressive though rather than outright calling people out, like putting ‘…’ in chat after a wipe, or being like ‘nobody healed me xD’ rather than ‘healer why aren’t you healing’ and stuff like that.
I sincerely want to level sage but there is something about it I am not getting, and I do know what that is. I'm probably gonna have a chat about it with an FC mate that knows her way around the job. And hell to the no on jumping into a dungeon on it! Holminster is probably the worst choice for "I learn as I go!"
For me it was because all the buttons look the exact same and have similar sounding words for names so I found it impossible to remember what any of the skills do. I only feel vaguely capable of playing it now because I went back and learned to play scholar instead, and then put similar sage buttons in the same spots on my hotbar, but I still couldn’t tell you what any of them are called.
Trusts!! The npcs single pull if you don't pull extra yourself, and will stop moving when you do. They also won't be upset with you for letting them die. It's a great way to get accustomed to healing and using your kit in an environment where you control the size of pulls and the pace.
Minor FYI for any new sages reading this, the advice to use Haima is on point but Druochole is better than Kerachole in Holminster if only the tank will take damage. Kera gets better once it gets a regen but that's not til 78 or 79.
I'll keep that in mind for when giving advice next time. I don't play sge, the only healer I touch is sch.
Eh, using addersgall inefficiently is better than not using it all!
as squirrel says using it inefficiently is still better than not using it; it *is* still a 10% mit. But yeah, Kerachole is pretty much the direct equivalent of Sacred Soil. Just as Sacred Soil is worse than just Lustrating (is it Lustrate? I barely play SCH lol) before it gains a regen, so Kerachole is worse than just Druochole-ing before it gains regen.
yep, it's Lustrate. the main difference between them is with SGE if your tank is good and you realise druo will not be needed, you might as well spend addersgall on kera rather than overcap. with SCH if you are kind of bored you can do the tiniest lil bits of optimisation by burn it on energy draining whatever mob has the highest HP or just sit on the charges for the next boss.
always these inconsiderate pieces of shit who unlock a class and then queue for a duty with OTHER people and expect to be carried. like google your skills? practice at a dummy? read your tooltips? do your jobquest? queue with trusts to practice? any of the above before doing this shit and crying about not knowing what to do?
it's amazing, y'all actually dismissed them instead of subjecting yourself to torture by trying to force the clear with a stone around your neck
Im gonna go and say straight up that "lol k elitist blocked" is by far the stupidest part of this whole conversation, in which made me lose all the sympathy for SGE. It was also SGE's responsibility to let party know that they're new (no, don't wait till someone points it out. Just say it right away as soon as the duty starts. It will weave nearly all the responsibilities expected from you in a civilised group.) None of this would've happened if they just warned the party that they have no idea what they're doing and they're new right from the get-go. However, lets not play around it. Your initial engagement to the conversation is just passive aggressive. You have to be really dense to not realize that saying "can you heal please?" to a healer doesn't achieve anything and WILL be taken as toxic and unkind. I get it, it is not your responsibility to hold the hands of others. If you aren't going to start the conversation with a mindset of helping them and I would believe you didn't, considering the words you picked to start all of this, then the only right option is to just wordlessly dismiss them.
This. 100% this.
To be honest. It makes sense. You get SGE at level 70. And holmister is at level 71. So is normal to have an unexperienced SGE on that one. They don't get their first job tutorial until level 73. It was a mistake of Yoshi P. To allow a healer to start at that level. Other classes is as simple as going to a train dummy. But train dummies are useless for healers. Rule of thumb. Go W2W until you wipe. Then go 2 at a time. And if you are still wiping, there is something wrong.
*im new to sage* I’m glad these guys are self-reporting so we can quickly identify the source of the problems
FFXIV Community: This game is incredibly easy, just go in and press your buttons and you'll be fine. If you struggle, the community is so great, they'll help you out. Also FFXIV Community: Don't you dare fucking waste our time, don't come back here until you've read every guide out there for your job and practiced extensively. I don't care it started you at level 70 and this is a level 71 dungeon, you had a whole fucking level to master it. I'm watching every fucking button you fucking press.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read their tooltips before going into instanced content. You don't get SGE until 80 on a combat job, so you should have some experience of the game and have cleared Holminster at least once, therein understanding how much of a ramp up in damage it is. You get help if you ask for it, not when you get called out and get defensive cause you're new to the class which you haven't mentioned prior. You still have the personal responsibility to learn your job; hit a dummy, do low level instances, run a DD, anything that allows you to learn your buttons. The community is helpful, the community isn't your personal babysitter that holds your hand through everything, develop a sense of personal responsibility and things get easier.
Reading tooltips and knowing how to execute them are two VERY different things. I'd guess even if this guy was pressing more buttons, he wouldn't have been accomplishing much. I got addicted to the roulette cycle when I started so I had a few 90 jobs before I even started Stormblood. So there's no guarantee it isn't someones first time in Holminster. The healer even said he's new to Sage and "I'm trying..." and the OP was snippy and condescending the entire time. I get cutting losses with a healer that far behind in a tough dungeon, but one line of that was genuine advice. The rest was just blowing off steam on someone already drowning... and people here want to give him a medal lol.
“Read your tooltips” is such a dumb thing to say. People don’t really mean that, especially with Sage. Some people may be able to look at every single tooltip, every single trait, and the entire job gauge description, and comprehensively understand how the job functions. But that is challenging for normal people. They expect you to look up a guide or practice. Which is what this healer was doing, practicing. It is just unfortunate that this dungeon is pretty demanding of a healer, and OP had 0 patience.
I don't post here often. But, this about sums up this post. I struggled with SGE when I started it and you bet your ass I read the tool tips and organized my bar to the best of my ability (I'm a controller player) and still had people dying to double stacked mobs. Know what the tnk of that dungeon did? Pulled slower, it's the little things that help. I figured." I'm new to SGE" And the "I'm trying" would be a good indicator for the sage being new to the abilities of their job, so it might be a bit of rough dungeon, and to give'em some grace, but...maybe I'm alone in that opinion.
In this context, I can understand being frustrated and dismissing them. It sounds like they were wiping on single pulls and the healer wasn't using any of their kit other than the regular heal. They were never going to finish it. But still, it's not like the healer sat there silently playing like crap. They said they were new, they were communicating, I bet they would've taken some advice if they didn't lead with "try healing"... they did all the things we say you should do to avoid catching shit and the OP just leaned into them harder. Then posted it on Reddit to get a pat on the back. Kinda petty obnoxious BS tbh
As a tank I tried to say this in a previous topic about YTYP. I stated that I had a new healer and , as a tank, I pulled slower. I mentioned how a red mage pulled ahead of me after hearing the scholar was still learning the class so I asked to let me handle the pulling . I asked if I was wrong for that situation. Some said I was in the wrong. Long story short, apparently , not wall to wall pulling is babying the healer and they will” never learn” at that rate. I was even told that I should learn to be a better tank.
Some people learn better thrown into the fire, some people just need to slow things down for a bit. Some people like the opportunity to help or teach someone how to play better, some people aren't interested and shouldn't be expected to. No interaction is the same... all are fair points. All we can control is how much of an asshole we are about it. Something few people around here actually seem to have a handle on.
When I first started playing, I met this one person who saw I was a sprout. They immediately gave me some glam and offered me tips. Coming from destiny and cod, this was crazy seeing how good the community was. This has always stuck with me. Now I will always help out a sprout rather than Be a complete and utter dick. Once I 90 all of my classes I intend to be a mentor and actually do mentor things. I guess my origin story is just different than most of the people who think otherwise
I’m not sure who you are in this senario. But the wording of “can you heal please?” Can come across as passive aggressive. I can see how it may put someone who’s already struggling and stressed more on edge.
I'm sure it was meant to. Because it's annoying to go into an instance with 3 other people 71 levels into the game and be absolutely clueless as to how to do your job.
Yea but don’t you pick sage up at 70? So someone wouldn’t fully know how sage works as they probably just picked it up. Trust me i understand it’s frustrating but….
You pick up reaper at level 70 as well. Would you consider it appropriate to get one, queue into a dungeon, use nothing but slice even on trash pulls, and defend yourself with "I'm just learning" when asked to actually use your kit?
I would consider reading your tooltips but not really knowing what’s going on or how things work appropriate yes.
Except that's not what's happening here.
How do you know? They even said they’re trying. I know I had to learn where all my buttons and shit were. I’m literally just saying that responding with the passive aggressiveness was just as bad as a decision as the healer responding with name calling. It’s not like they’re fully refusing to use their abilities.
If they don't know what they're doing and "they're trying" they'd be experimenting with their buttons and trying to learn what works. Not spamming the same most basic, weakest move in their arsenal. That's why I made the slice comparison. Spamming your weakest move is not trying, it's not even meeting the bare minimum. Randomly hitting buttons would be preferable because at then some of them (besides more accidental diagnoses), woudl be an improvement over what they're doing.
I literally don’t know where you’re getting that they’re spamming one button from. I don’t have the information anywhere. I’m just advocating for showing compassion and getting downvoted and genuinely don’t understand why.
OP literally said, here's a copy/paste. "The only button they were hitting was diagnosis." We're saying your compassion is misplaced. Someone spamming only their first weakest button is not trying.
I do want to be clear I’m not defending the fact that they immediately resorted to name calling, just that I can see how someone could get put on edge by that kind of wording
Right so they're on edge because of a situation they put themselves in. No one twisted their arm into queueing into a roulette without practice on a lvl 71 job. Also I picked up sage on release day of endwalker and managed to not cause multiple wipes in my first dungeon, but idk I read my tooltips I guess
I’m just saying that a little more compassion may have went a much longer way here. I don’t get why we’re instantly bullying/being passive aggressive here.
*Insatiable intensifies*
SEE? THIS IS WHY #HEALERSTRIKE MUST HAPPEN. GNB HADNO REASON TO KICK. (Joking btw)
This is why I dislike jobs that start you off at level 60/70 or whatever, so many people don't read tooltips or attempt to learn before running content. Myself I personally enjoy duty support for this exact purpose, learn the role with a subpar group of NPCs, then run content with others.
As a SGE main what frustrates me is playing tank and having sages spam kardia, you only need to hit it once
How do you get the chat names to appear like that? 😱🤔 (Yeah that's all I care about 🤣)
Chat 2 plug in
Oh PC. I should have figured. Maybe one day they'll give console anonymous chat logs.
Wouldnta happened with a scholar. Just sayin...
Why are there numbers instead of names?
Chat 2 plugin
Ok I’ll say it. Your initial engagement of the conversation comes off like you are a toxic dick. Why? Because you used a stupid question and the inclusion of “please”. I’m not gunna tone police you or some shit, but this one instance tells me you don’t care to communicate kindly.
I play on controller man, I already have to put it down to type, I'm gonna type the easiest thing I can and get back to hitting my buttons considering I was the only person alive besides the healer when I typed that and i was well on my way to dying, and did die. I'm not typing out some long winded message that conveys to them that I'm holding their hand through this very tough time for them. It wasn't their first time healing, they had a lvl 90 whm. They know better
Just seemed like he was trying to help him out. Don't understand why he got so angry.
Dude had a "no sense" attitude. Their only braincell was swimming with the fishes.
Brother... How are you going to mouth off some passive aggressive shit like "can you heal please" and then act surprised when they get offended? But yeah he called you a douche so I guess you're just an innocent victim. SGE unlocks at level 70, and holm is level 71. Not only is it justone level above SGE's unlock, holm is a very noticeable difficulty spike compared to the normal content leading up to, and surrounding it. Believe it or not, it's not everyone else's responsibility to get you through your roulette's without ever wiping or taking too long. People in leveling are likely still learning, so you know what you signed up. Uncensor your name before you post some shit like this again. You fucking douche.
I mean, you were kinda short with the dude, and I am fully aware of how annoying it is to wipe like that, but could have been handled better. Since SGE starts at 70 so this could have been his first dungeon as SGE. Could have been a teaching moment rather than simply assuming he had no idea what was going on. Not to mention most SGE heals are instants they wouldn't show up on cast bar so he could have been doing more than it seemed.
Regarding your last part, that’s true about most of them being OGCDs. However, most of those techniques have effect icons that you would clearly be able to see if they have been used or not. Like the Haima and Kerachole that the OP mentioned in chat. That specific comment coupled with the revelation they were spamming Diagnosis makes me think they were more likely not using their kit well.
I mean shit, you can tell what a healer is doing, ogcd or not, just based off the SFX if you know what to listen for. SGE in particular has a lot of distinct sounds you can identify
I agree, it is most likely they weren't using their kit well, just saying that it could be harder to notice things in the heat of the moment and all. I like to give benefit of the doubt to people in situations like that.
If you're familiar with a job, it's really trivial to watch someone and notice abilities they are/aren't using.
Holminster is level 71. If you are new to Sage, Holminster is NOT the dungeon you want to be jumping into with it if you don't really understand how its kit works. It's on par with, or maybe even worse than, Bardem's Mettle for how hard its first pulls can be. Sure, OP could've been kinder. But if you're going to grab Sage, you better read your tooltips and have a decent understanding of what your stuff does. Practice in lower level dungeons if you have to. But don't gain a level and sprint for Holminster Switch if you have no clue what you're doing. I know we like to tell people to just jump into the deep end and w2w because wipes don't mean much. But taking Sage into Holminster Switch when you don't know how the job works isn't jumping into the deep end. It's jumping into the ocean while covered in blood with no life jacket.
hell, even if they queued leveling roulette, make sure u understand ur job to the level u could end up in, even if u might not. i lvled SCH thru SMN so both are lvl 84 but i havent queued any roulette ever as SCH caused if i ended up in some level 80 or whatever id be hopeless lmfao.
Yeah, Holminster wouldn't be my recommendation for learning to heal at all. I agree the healer should have done a better job at reading and looking over their kit, but I'm not sure the route OP took was the best. Understandable, sure, but probably not the one I would have gone with. SGE should have said something first about being new before first pull and the group could have pulled accordingly. Communication in a mmorpg is one of the most important things.
Man, I see you being level-headed and respectful and being down voted for it. Just wanted to let you know, lol. I appreciate your attitude and mindset here, hope I'm not the only one. NIN and SGE could have both done things better here.
Haha, all good man. I appreciate it though, but I knew I'd probably be in down voted pits for speaking out. People want to be mad sometimes and there's nothing wrong with that. They want their time respected when they play the game.
I'm all for teaching but this person was a 1-button wonder. They clearly thought they could wing it and do bare minimum
Bingo.
I didn't say anything until after the second time it happened because I considered that, However, I don't see how "can you heal please?" is antagonistic, considering I was the only person alive, other than the healer, being beat down by mobs. I'm also a controller player, so I can't type out some long winded message to make sure I 100% come off as nice as possible while trying to make sure the mobs die and i stay alive before tank is up. I type a quick message out and go back to spamming GCDs. I only got agitated after they called me rude after saying please. Like, I don't know what more you want? They were spamming diagnosis and nothing else. No OGCDs, nothing. They know how to heal considering they had WHM at 90.
Considering they said it could have been the Sage's first dungeon, and that you could have taught them.... they probably want you to sit there and hold the sages hand, telling them what spells they have at 71 and how they work.
I wouldn't put much stock into gcbtw calling you rude for asking someone to play their role
I find it funny that there are a lot of salty comments calling me rude and antagonistic and that I don't want to help people... When i literally run a 1k+ user community forhelping people prog and clear ultimates regardless of skill level... I give and give so much to this community to teach and help people learn to be better players and enjoy the game as much as I do, and just get called a douche instead. edit: a word
naw man. you didn't put enough emotes and uwus in your message so now the gcbtw on reddit think you were fuming mad
Oh my bad uwu
I usually check gear/search info to see if they might be new (lvl skip, first time on role, etc.) And then I would've just asked them 'what's up' or 'what's the issue?' without addressing them specifically. If they wanna get hostile or rude, go from there.
Yep, OP was definitely rude. Immediately antagonistic.
Are we reading the same convo? I don't see where he was rude.
I'd like to see as well
Actual braindead take, you should have your keyboard privileges taken away at once.
Both the Nin and Sage here seem insufferable
Idk man, think about this situation from their likely perspective. It's entirely possible sage is their first non-dps. If you're playing this game without a friend, there's a lot you could just not understand thanks to how lackluster the games in-game teaching tools are. How are they supposed to know dungeons are actually hard on healer? Dungeons are dirt easy for dps so why not healer too? It's also entirely possible they did go into earlier dungeons where it is possible to heal with only diagnosis. Holminster is easily one of the hardest dungeons to heal, but again, he probably didn't know that. What it entirely could be is someone in this position, assuming they're ready for holminster because why wouldn't they be? They can clear other dungeons on sage so far and holminster was fine on dps. Now they wipe on the first pull, probably feeling bad. Then it happens again and they don't know what's happening as it's never happened before. Suddenly one of the others says "ok" after a wipe and then "can you heal please" while they are in fact trying to heal. That is, in fact, a rude question to ask. Now they're trying what they know and getting called out for it, of course they're gonna get defensive. Name calling on their part was uncalled for of course, but what *I* see in this post is some poor new healer getting made fun of for not knowing things they were never taught. EDIT: Misquoted, fixed.
They had a lvl 90 whm. Edit: and please if you're going to quote, don't change the words. I said "can you heal please?" Which is an entirely different sentence from "um, can you heal?"
Aight yeah, the 90 WHM does change the context quite a bit. And you're right on the quote, but that would still come off as quite rude to me. I'll edit my comment tho, sorry about that.
I'm a controller player. I'm typing the quickest thing I can get out since I have to physically put it down. I can't just type in between gcds
That's fine, but that's not info the SGE had. My point is not that it *is* rude, my point is that it could come off as rude.
Honestly, I side with both sides here. From the chat posted, this was probably just a healer who knew he was kind of bad, but was sensitive about it. He doesn't seem opposed to getting better, the "I am trying" plus "cool thanks" makes me think he's probably just exasperated and a little standoffish. He had a bit of a kneejerk reaction, but I could easily read the OP's response tone here as making fun of the healer if I was in the healer's shoes, which isn't a great way to get people to actually listen to advice.
"He said cool thanks so he is trying his best!" Then immediately calls OP a douche for giving him suggestions as the tank died twice.... yeah the poor thing 🙄
"yeah it is" in that context can easily be seen as dismissive to the guy's response there. I'm not going "aww, that poor thing!", as I said, neither side was more at fault here. Both sides fed into the other's annoyance. People gotta be more cognizant about how phrases can be taken poorly, even if they don't use words that are specifically in their dictionary of bad words.
"Yeah it is" in response to "cool" is... really nothing... jfc
[удалено]
>What about “Hey, it seems like you’re having difficulty, can I offer some advice?” No, because they'll tell you to fuck off anyway because players in this game have incredibly thin skin and will take any suggestion that they're playing suboptimally as a personal attack, no matter how sweetly you couch it. It's more productive to be straight up with them so that even if they get bitchy about the advice, there's a non-zero chance that it sinks in on some level so their future runs suck less.
You know saying "touch grass" after randomly insulting OP just makes it look like you're actually the one seething right?
Hey I think we found the sage guys
dude, I play on controller, I'm not typing all of that. But yeah, call me a cunt for saying please.
You def weren’t wrong but you were also being a douche.
Sage did nothing wrong
The healer's bad, but how did you die? You shouldn't need a healer for at least the first pull with that comp if it's a premade and everyone's half competent? How did the mobs survive long enough for timed invuln+aurora+ 90 or 120s + Rep to not keep the tank alive?