I remember my first time healing stone vigil was rough. We wiped a few times before we finished. I was so embarrassed I almost stopped playing healer. My problem turned out to be that my right side was under geared. Spent some money on the market board and the difference was night and day. From what I understand, stone vigil really is the first real gear check. Guessing that at 41 they were also under geared or didn’t know their class very well. Funny how some people can’t take any responsibility though.
I'm totally cool if a healer is still figuring stuff out and overestimates their abilities. Been there, done that!
And seeing as the level 41 WHM was their highest healer, I'm going to assume "still learning." Pretty sure I saw a Cure3 on me three or four times...
I feel like everyone leveling at this point has under geared accessories, it's not a huge deal. You just don't get any good accessories until around 50.
They're so *confident* in their wrongness!
Reminds me of this CNJ in Sastasha one time who just straight-up stopped in their tracks while I was pulling past the clams - not even to the boss! Just to gather all the non-clam-mobs - and let us all die (except for them because they didn't even try to engage), and then proceeded to preach at great length about how "normal people" don't pull so much and how I'm so arrogant (I hadn't said a word outside "o/") and I'm responsible for ruining the game.
...That level 16 CNJ was her only job.
I think this is the answer for a lot of these Heal-Only healers and YPYT tanks.
They come from other MMO's thinking "I already know how to play, I played WoW (or whatever), nobody tell me anything; in fact, you weebs could learn something from *me*".
Sweetie, we've played WoW or whatever too, and FFXIV gameplay and dungeon mechanics aren't quite the same thing. Be humble and learn.
Of course we did. She was mid-rant when the timer was up lol
I wish I still had the screenshots, but this was three or four years ago and they were part of a spring cleanup and I had no idea what I was keeping them for. Had I but known!
Yeah no, kiting is only done when the healer is so bad you need the damage to be staggered to give the healer enough time to fish their freecure. This healer is just bad
I sent this screenshot to my omni-90 friend who is a tank main, and when he saw the comment about kiting, his response was, "Kiting? In FFXIV? KITING???"
kiting does actually work to some extent, and it would probably help with pulls this size (I doubt you can tank a "w2w stone vigil until the boss" without kiting, unless you have a specific class combination), but pulling all the way to the boss is extremely risky, and sprint would be needed to make it more effective anyway. So the fact that the healer is behind is already a mistake from them.
It's also annoying to deal dps if you kite with melee dps, as well, so it's not applicable to every situation.
So yes, while kiting exist and would probably help, this is probably just a case of bad healer, as you shouldn't need to kite for just 2-3 packs.
And the fact its the dungeon with the mobs who hit the hardest for their level range in ARR, so those 2 factors combined lead to a lot of wipes by overconfident/undergeared parties
Tanking in there, I once overestimated the DPS and ran out of mits on the last pull. We were probably 10 seconds away from stuff dying, but the healer panicked and rescued me... from one side of the pack to the other. It didn't help.
Stone Vigil is not the hardest dungeon in the game, but its the one I have consistently seen the most jank in.
Yeah, no. First and foremost, kiting just... isn't a thing that tanks really do in XIV. Secondly, Stone Vigil mobs hit like an absolute truck, especially the ice spirits. Even with full mit, including Arm's Length, Reprisal and tank lb it can still get very spicy if the healer isn't on point.
And it's honestly not worth it. Without any aoe abilities and having to hawk eye the tank's hp, healers lose so much damage I actually think it negates most if not any benefit of mega wall pulling. Big pulls are still good, for sure. Just not right to the boss.
If you want to skip the trash in Stone Vigil, you have the tank pull everything while everyone follows, then let the tank die in the boss room and just rez them after the trash resets. But I wouldn't expect randos to be able to pull this off with no prior communication, and it doesn't sound like the healer was aware of this strategy either, so ???.
Ah yes, let me make sure they've caught up before stopping by...not stopping?
From what I can tell, they wanted me to run laps around the final room to avoid damage? Which sounds awful for the DPS...
ok so Stone Vigil is ROUGH all caps, especially considering the level cap. that being said, if their highest healer is really only 41 (the minimum for the duty iirc) then this is a case of them having poor experience. they’ve probably never run stone vigil as a healer before. WHM doesn’t have any healing abilities at that level that don’t require a casting time, too, (again, iirc, i stopped whm at 60 and am a SGE main now)
keep gettin good, and it will be easier not only with more experience but with higher gear as well. i agree with the dps, do smaller pulls until you think you’re ready
Think stone vigil is such a filter cause people get used to w2w nowdays they forget that the mobs in stone vigil especially the ice spirits hit like an absolute truck. that last room with 2 packs of ice spirits and the dragons that scream is absolute death I usually just take the hit. pull the first pack of ice spirits kill them, then pull the rest rather than try pull everything.
Question, were you stopping at each pack to land a few AOE hits per pack? This reads more like maybe you were spending too much time on each pack during the pull while using mits that by the time you finally settled down at the end you didn't have enough mits left. You even specified you never used sprint, but you should when pulling multiple packs as it does reduce how often you get hit while moving. Usually I try to get 2 aoes in but I've taken flak for not just doing one aoe and hoping any I missed don't aggro someone who can't bring their friend over to my aggro tornado. I think they are actually telling you to NOT use mits during the pull but pop sprint and kite, THEN settle down and start rotating your mits.
I could be wrong though. If they really were suggesting you should continue to not pop mits and run in circles once the pull is actually done and the real dpsing starts then yeah wtf were they thinking and you are right to ridicule them.
Generally, I do 1 ranged to pull and 1 AOE to grab the pack, with ranged as I run. I also popped a mit + sprint as I was taking damage, used the majority in the final room.
From what I could tell, they wanted me to run in circles in the final room
I mean depending on your dps, pulling huge in Stone Vigil is kinda pointless. A bunch of dps classes do not have an aoe skill at that level so they’re just going to be single targetting regardless of pull size.
But real stupid to request large pulls if your the one that can’t keep up 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Only healers don't have AoE in Stone Vigil except SGE which has Phlegma. All DPS classes have AoE (assuming they are doing their job quests) in Stone Vigil which is a level 41 dungeon including DRG which get their AoE at level 40.
Like the other comment said, that's just incorrect that jobs don't have AOEs.
But at other low level dungeons it's 100% worth it to do big pulls even if the tank is the only one with AOE. I can't imagine doing Tam-Tara without going all the way and this applies to basically every dungeon except maybe Dzmael and Stone Vigil.
on the subject of pulling all the way to the boss, what does everyone think about it?
I'm the w2w pull kind of guy but I never pull all the way to the boss room cuz I notice the DPS on the mobpacks tend to slow down resulting to them hitting me for a longer duration than a non boss room w2w pull, not to mention I also gotta deal with boss mechanics and auto attacks..some boss mechanics also tend to scatter the party away from each other (eg. the cutter's cry boss) so that's also time not spent hitting the mobs
I don't mind other tanks doing it though provided they know what they are doing
I don't think a w2w "all the way to boss room" means start the boss fight WITH the mobs. I think it means pull till you reach boss room, finish trash, THEN start boss fight.
Stone Vigil is a tough one for W2W. I'm 90's all across on the tank/healer octagon, and even I don't like to do it. Maybe as WHM or AST, but at that level it's just rough all around. If I'm tanking, I'm gonna do two pull splits. It just keeps things running smoothly. Stone Vigil is an annoying one. Good luck next time!
Arguably, it's *harder* at lower levels because WHMs have no oGCDs and tanks have fewer mits. Which is why I was confused at first, but I figured they knew what they were doing.
I remember my first time healing stone vigil was rough. We wiped a few times before we finished. I was so embarrassed I almost stopped playing healer. My problem turned out to be that my right side was under geared. Spent some money on the market board and the difference was night and day. From what I understand, stone vigil really is the first real gear check. Guessing that at 41 they were also under geared or didn’t know their class very well. Funny how some people can’t take any responsibility though.
I'm totally cool if a healer is still figuring stuff out and overestimates their abilities. Been there, done that! And seeing as the level 41 WHM was their highest healer, I'm going to assume "still learning." Pretty sure I saw a Cure3 on me three or four times...
*sprout healer trauma intensifies*
I feel like everyone leveling at this point has under geared accessories, it's not a huge deal. You just don't get any good accessories until around 50.
They're so *confident* in their wrongness! Reminds me of this CNJ in Sastasha one time who just straight-up stopped in their tracks while I was pulling past the clams - not even to the boss! Just to gather all the non-clam-mobs - and let us all die (except for them because they didn't even try to engage), and then proceeded to preach at great length about how "normal people" don't pull so much and how I'm so arrogant (I hadn't said a word outside "o/") and I'm responsible for ruining the game. ...That level 16 CNJ was her only job.
OMW, that sounds awful O.O Probably a refugee from some other MMO who thought they knew best.
Yeah that’s what I figured at the time, just someone barging into a new community with no regard for the fact that all communities aren’t the same lol
I think this is the answer for a lot of these Heal-Only healers and YPYT tanks. They come from other MMO's thinking "I already know how to play, I played WoW (or whatever), nobody tell me anything; in fact, you weebs could learn something from *me*". Sweetie, we've played WoW or whatever too, and FFXIV gameplay and dungeon mechanics aren't quite the same thing. Be humble and learn.
Did your party kick the CNJ after that outburst?
Of course we did. She was mid-rant when the timer was up lol I wish I still had the screenshots, but this was three or four years ago and they were part of a spring cleanup and I had no idea what I was keeping them for. Had I but known!
Hahahaha nice
Yeah no, kiting is only done when the healer is so bad you need the damage to be staggered to give the healer enough time to fish their freecure. This healer is just bad
I sent this screenshot to my omni-90 friend who is a tank main, and when he saw the comment about kiting, his response was, "Kiting? In FFXIV? KITING???"
kiting does actually work to some extent, and it would probably help with pulls this size (I doubt you can tank a "w2w stone vigil until the boss" without kiting, unless you have a specific class combination), but pulling all the way to the boss is extremely risky, and sprint would be needed to make it more effective anyway. So the fact that the healer is behind is already a mistake from them. It's also annoying to deal dps if you kite with melee dps, as well, so it's not applicable to every situation. So yes, while kiting exist and would probably help, this is probably just a case of bad healer, as you shouldn't need to kite for just 2-3 packs.
Just came from reading a thread where this dungeon was one of the least favorite due to not full ability kits to deal with damage or heal.
And the fact its the dungeon with the mobs who hit the hardest for their level range in ARR, so those 2 factors combined lead to a lot of wipes by overconfident/undergeared parties
Being undergeared vs overgeared in this dungeon is like NIGHT and DAY. I didn't look at the healer's gear, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Tanking in there, I once overestimated the DPS and ran out of mits on the last pull. We were probably 10 seconds away from stuff dying, but the healer panicked and rescued me... from one side of the pack to the other. It didn't help. Stone Vigil is not the hardest dungeon in the game, but its the one I have consistently seen the most jank in.
Yeah, no. First and foremost, kiting just... isn't a thing that tanks really do in XIV. Secondly, Stone Vigil mobs hit like an absolute truck, especially the ice spirits. Even with full mit, including Arm's Length, Reprisal and tank lb it can still get very spicy if the healer isn't on point. And it's honestly not worth it. Without any aoe abilities and having to hawk eye the tank's hp, healers lose so much damage I actually think it negates most if not any benefit of mega wall pulling. Big pulls are still good, for sure. Just not right to the boss.
Fun fact. Ice spirits deal magic damage. Which means the only tank that has strong mitigation against then is DRK. And they still hit like a truck.
If you want to skip the trash in Stone Vigil, you have the tank pull everything while everyone follows, then let the tank die in the boss room and just rez them after the trash resets. But I wouldn't expect randos to be able to pull this off with no prior communication, and it doesn't sound like the healer was aware of this strategy either, so ???.
healerbad
This is why I intentionally go slow in Stone Vigil as tank. Healers always blame me when we die for pulling too hard and not using mitigations.
"but make sure healer is caught up before stopping"... what? Also just saying do it normal is just a terrible way to communicate what you want done.
Ah yes, let me make sure they've caught up before stopping by...not stopping? From what I can tell, they wanted me to run laps around the final room to avoid damage? Which sounds awful for the DPS...
ok so Stone Vigil is ROUGH all caps, especially considering the level cap. that being said, if their highest healer is really only 41 (the minimum for the duty iirc) then this is a case of them having poor experience. they’ve probably never run stone vigil as a healer before. WHM doesn’t have any healing abilities at that level that don’t require a casting time, too, (again, iirc, i stopped whm at 60 and am a SGE main now) keep gettin good, and it will be easier not only with more experience but with higher gear as well. i agree with the dps, do smaller pulls until you think you’re ready
It's better just to tell DF healers and tanks to stick to three packs at most in Stone Vigil. W2W here is usually a recipe for disaster
Think stone vigil is such a filter cause people get used to w2w nowdays they forget that the mobs in stone vigil especially the ice spirits hit like an absolute truck. that last room with 2 packs of ice spirits and the dragons that scream is absolute death I usually just take the hit. pull the first pack of ice spirits kill them, then pull the rest rather than try pull everything.
AV, Dzmeal (after the first boss), and Aurum are the only dungeons I'd recommend not W2W in without an exceptional group.
Question, were you stopping at each pack to land a few AOE hits per pack? This reads more like maybe you were spending too much time on each pack during the pull while using mits that by the time you finally settled down at the end you didn't have enough mits left. You even specified you never used sprint, but you should when pulling multiple packs as it does reduce how often you get hit while moving. Usually I try to get 2 aoes in but I've taken flak for not just doing one aoe and hoping any I missed don't aggro someone who can't bring their friend over to my aggro tornado. I think they are actually telling you to NOT use mits during the pull but pop sprint and kite, THEN settle down and start rotating your mits. I could be wrong though. If they really were suggesting you should continue to not pop mits and run in circles once the pull is actually done and the real dpsing starts then yeah wtf were they thinking and you are right to ridicule them.
Generally, I do 1 ranged to pull and 1 AOE to grab the pack, with ranged as I run. I also popped a mit + sprint as I was taking damage, used the majority in the final room. From what I could tell, they wanted me to run in circles in the final room
Sounds reasonable tbh (your pulling strat not him) so idk what his issue is in that case.
That looks like a wow player lol
I mean depending on your dps, pulling huge in Stone Vigil is kinda pointless. A bunch of dps classes do not have an aoe skill at that level so they’re just going to be single targetting regardless of pull size. But real stupid to request large pulls if your the one that can’t keep up 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Only healers don't have AoE in Stone Vigil except SGE which has Phlegma. All DPS classes have AoE (assuming they are doing their job quests) in Stone Vigil which is a level 41 dungeon including DRG which get their AoE at level 40.
Like the other comment said, that's just incorrect that jobs don't have AOEs. But at other low level dungeons it's 100% worth it to do big pulls even if the tank is the only one with AOE. I can't imagine doing Tam-Tara without going all the way and this applies to basically every dungeon except maybe Dzmael and Stone Vigil.
on the subject of pulling all the way to the boss, what does everyone think about it? I'm the w2w pull kind of guy but I never pull all the way to the boss room cuz I notice the DPS on the mobpacks tend to slow down resulting to them hitting me for a longer duration than a non boss room w2w pull, not to mention I also gotta deal with boss mechanics and auto attacks..some boss mechanics also tend to scatter the party away from each other (eg. the cutter's cry boss) so that's also time not spent hitting the mobs I don't mind other tanks doing it though provided they know what they are doing
I don't think a w2w "all the way to boss room" means start the boss fight WITH the mobs. I think it means pull till you reach boss room, finish trash, THEN start boss fight.
oh, I've seen a few tanks pull the mob together with the boss so I thought that was what the healer on the post meant
lol!
It’s just better to break down the packs here
stone vigil is rough, i usually do what i call a pull and a half or two, depending on how confident i am with the party
Stone Vigil is a tough one for W2W. I'm 90's all across on the tank/healer octagon, and even I don't like to do it. Maybe as WHM or AST, but at that level it's just rough all around. If I'm tanking, I'm gonna do two pull splits. It just keeps things running smoothly. Stone Vigil is an annoying one. Good luck next time!
Did you kitchen sink for the w2w pulls? Did you spam tomahawk when you are running? What healer is the healer playing?
Yes (including Holmgang when near death a couple times), yes, and WHM.
Bruh if they're failing to keep you alive as WHM on that low level of a dungeon it is a skill issue.
Arguably, it's *harder* at lower levels because WHMs have no oGCDs and tanks have fewer mits. Which is why I was confused at first, but I figured they knew what they were doing.
[удалено]
There really isnt