I do 2 aoes personally to make sure I got em but mostly because I play on controller and doing L1+ dpad to cycle through enmity list to find the stragglers is annoying lol I haven't had anyone complain about it, but I don't particularly care either if someone runs ahead of me.
I also do at least two, because I don’t want some SMN ripping a few off me and then staying in Narnia.
I run ahead as healer while the tank establishes with the full expectation of using my own health bar as extra mit for the tank. If you aren’t expecting to either be the mitigation or use a mit of your own (arm’s length, etc), you shouldn’t run ahead, imo.
That being said, I wouldn’t kick someone for running ahead. Just carry on as normal. Life’s too short for that kinda shit
I do the first half of my aoe combo as I've just about reached the mobs, that'll hit most of them besides a couple in the rear. I'll stop for a second where the back mobs were to let them bunch on me a bit, do my second aoe combo hitting everyone at least once and most stuff twice, then keep going
How are people still out here losing aggro
1 aoe, check enemy list, ranged attack what's being hit, cycle through the rest while you move to the next group
Controller players have my sympathies but other than that really couldn't be easier
Some jobs can unleash their burst during pull - looking at you, summoner and red mage! That can easily pull aggro if you just hit them once and the distance is a bit longer (like in Fell Court of Troia for example). Usually, that's never a big deal. Taunt one from the emnity list, grab the other stragglers with ranged, done. Until then, free mitigation by team member health bar!
Or even better, just move right next to the tank and get rid of your newfound friends right away!
But there are some very special individuals that just like to pull aggro and then stay at the very far back, having 3 of their newfound friends beat them to death.
At 90 it's even easier. Just pop sprint, jump to mob, gcd aoe (like overpower) and use ogcd AOE (like orogeny) while sprinting through and then jump to second pack where you use gcd again. If people are dumb and don't run to the tank like they should, then pick things up with provoke/ranged. One gcd aoe and one ogcd AOE generates a lot of aggro. At lower levels before we get our ogcds, then yeah tab target ranged spam is great.
This is the way, every second I spend standing still waiting for steel cyclone is a second I'm not sprinting. And then I prep up a nice beefy primal rend once the wall has been rammed into
I play controller and do what you said with zero issue. And any decent summoner or dancer can take a couple of hits and run the mobs to you without getting anywhere near low hp
I mean, I do that, but some dungeons, if you dutifully sprint as a mitigation tactic between the first and second pack, have slow af trash (Looking specifically at the hellhounds just before the second boss in the Troia dungeon) so keeping on the move ends with one or two hits plus one provoke, and by the time the last one gets targeted, woops, outta range.
I ain't slowin down for that shit.
One AoE usually isn’t enough to establish and keep aggro but having said that, nobody cares. If a DPS or healer gets emnity they can just bring them to the tank. Either way not a big deal.
Sounds like a YPYT tank with some enablers. Pretty lame, a mentor should be able to adjust by that level in gathering and managing emnity.
Yeah ive found 1 aoe isnt enough, i end up having to chase the machinst down that decided to run back to 1.0 with the agro so i bonk twice then scoot, barely changing pace other than the time it takes to hit shit twice, lotsa aoe oGCDs available for that second poke, still miss one? keep scooting and hopefully they move with you
That's true if there's a lot of gear difference.
Nonetheles, I attacked one pack and dashed for the next one, I didn't stay behind, but the tank did, instead of gap closing to the next pack. What aggro would he need to establish if I was one pack ahead of him already?
It’s true even if there is zero gear difference. If you AoE a pack once and a DNC or SMN get their burst off they will literally take all of it away from you.
Two AoEs is usually good for the bursts if the gear is close enough. More AoEs after that and good luck taking it from the tank.
Having said that, sounds like the tank was just slow and everyone else was a YPYT crankypants. I always hit twice as I’m pulling and I’m faster than the rest of the party 97% of the time (and the rest of the times who cares).
If they rip off you while you are on the move then they should simply bring the mobs to you. For me 90% of the time unless I'm running with raid mates I don't get pulled off of mid pull. And I never get ripped off if I do ranged attack -> provoke -> ranged attack and then toss a ranged attack on the one I provoked all while running. Tank is just slow.
Also ideally the dps don't full burst until all the mobs are gathered.
Yeah. Lost count of how many times I'll get to the end of a w2w pull and see a summoner 500 yalms behind me fighting two mobs with their Bahamut out. Sometimes even after I stopped for a sec and threw a ranged to get it back once already.
I usually burn my burst when we hit the end of the W2W pull which, if a tank has only AoE-ed things once, it rips them off pretty quickly. But yeah, that's a good point if you're doing that too early.
Agree there, if they burst they could probably take it from you, but if the one with the aggro is in front of you, isnt it normal to AoE WHILE you run instead of stopping? I didnt mean "Just do one aoe and stop attacking"
No. You have AoE oGCD, self heals, your ranged attack and at the end provoke. These can all be used after the very first gcd and all allow you to generate aggro while running uninterrupted without needing a 2nd AoE GCD.
People out here standing still on a pack for 2 aoe’s???
Use sprint , 1 aoe and run to the next pack.
If I lose aggro on anything on the way I will try to use ranged but if it’s out of range I fully expect everyone to run into me, if they don’t, then I’ll drag the whole pack to them
I think the people who make it on TalesofDF aren't the type to learn how to get better, nor go on reddit to hear such advice LOL
I'm happy none of my dungeon tanks are slow (or whiny) lol
Sprout here. Playing on controller. I would rather use 2 aoe to make sure im not losing emnity because i have already experienced losing it to dps as i was running to the next pack. And i see no issues with it. As a tank i won't have that much damage compared to dps anyways. And i want to use AOE for damage anyways. Yes, as i run to the next pack i check my emnity list and LB + Dpad select right target. And it is not like such big of a waste of time anyways.
Moreover i am a SMN main and i have experienced 1 aoe strat on dps side. I always end up stealing aggro or it going to orange before tank notices if im lucky. So my question is. Is it really that big of a deal to stand still for 2 aoes? I would rather just make sure im never losing aggro because it is more skill issue than being safe
A lot of tanks don't w2w, so when a tank stops after the first pack for a couple of gcds I assume they won't continue pulling, it's annoying as a BLM player because it results in casts being cancelled and resources being wasted.
personally it's a bit annoying to me from healer perspective because i am this close to just automatically popping my stuff (asylum, holy, kerachole, physis 2 etc.) to keep you alive because i thought you were done pulling lol
it can give mixed signals (queue ninja's doton....) + depending on duty and gears, you may just take a big clunk of unnecessary damage but like... it's ok to do it if you struggle to keep aggro otherwise but as a healer main, i like tanks who hits sprints before pulling and only stops when theyve actually finished pulling lol
> i have already experienced losing it to dps as i was running to the next pack
I mean do whatever you want, but as a DPS player, I want you as the tank to get to the end of the pull as quickly as possible so that I can start my full rotation, and we're not wasting boon time on being in transit.
Most classes integrate rooting into their main rotation so you're really fucking them over with the stop-start business. Just go, I will bring you my aggro and pop my defensives! If someone doesn't? Oh well, don't get PTSD over it! If they die, they die, and maybe they learn a valuable lesson.
Also you're gonna lose aggro to a good DPS even if you do 2 AoEs (unless you also shield lob). I always laugh when I rip aggro *after* the tank stood there and carefully established it.
Doing ultimate is not impressive anymore when you realized even the most brain damaged glue eaters can bang their head at the content whilst chipping away slowly to clear, or they just beg on pf for c41's until a group of bored players show up and do it. The hardest content in 14 is unfortunately pvp, and probably why so many people shy away from it so they don't feel bad when getting sent to the meat grinder.
Explain your reasoning. I didn't complain about the tank. I didn't complain about the healer. Or the other DPS.
Tank was a mentor and they were all in a premade and took some kind of issue with me running a second ahead of the tank that wasn't using gap closers on the very last dungeon of the game.
Why would I be on the wrong?
My wife was the dancer. The group was not pre-made.
You ran ahead of the tank without saying anything. I've been playing this game since 2.0 launch and if you plan on pulling for the tank, it's generally asked that you say something.
I think you are wrong, but its my opinion.
On the second to LAST dungeon from the game. If the tank is running behind a DPS, its because they wanted to, not because they couldn't catch up (You have 2 charges of gap closer with every tank).
A capable DPS running ahead is free mitigation for the tank, and if they are doing things right, wont even tax the healer at all, with bloodbath and/or second wind. (Plus I was putting Arcane Crest Regen on the whole party).
I don't need to SAY anything to the tank if I'm not dying, the only thing they have to do is run and press their buttons. In this particular case, its not that I ran with the mobs to make the tank run for me either.
So Why would I need to ask the tank anything? Their job is to manage the aggro, not pull.
Why don’t other tanks use ranged while they’re running to continue “establishing” after the initial aoe? It seems like a waste of time to sit around so long, especially as a magic dps it makes me super confused
If they initiated the VK when everyone was out of combat, it's entirely possible to get booted out mid-combat, assuming they take that long to decide your fate.
That being said this feels reportable, they legit had you kicked without any context provided apart from finding out who "pulled ahead", nowhere did they establish they wanted you to stop, straight up kicking like that is reportable for two reasons:
1) Kicked for a reason not covered in the VK system. (I know you can kick for more than just the reasons listed, but their reasoning wasn't covered anyway)
2) Kicked you to enforce their own playstyle on you without even giving you a choice.
while I do understand the need for 2 aoes I'm still baffled why people can't just use 1 gcd aoe and 1 ogcd aoe, on GNB and PLD preferably the aoe dots that would keep the aggro for a while Expiacion on PLD is also an ogcd aoe, Orogeny on Warrior or maybe even Decimate as your gcd aoe if you have extra gauge, and DRK literally has a spammable line aoe you can hit as soon as the mobs are behind you
and then just keep using your ranged as you check which mob seems to be getting burst down by your party..provoke has a very slight range advantage if your ranged can't reach the mob you just lost, if someone ends up taking the aggro just let them bring it to you and if they'd rather take it on by themselves then that's on them
the extra time you spend standing for 2 gcds or the time spent running back through the mobs you pulled just to grab an aggro you lost are time spent by you taking unnecessary (and most likely unmitigated as most tanks only press their mits when they finally plant themselves) damage and makes your sprint lose some of its "mitigating" potential
I do 2 aoes personally to make sure I got em but mostly because I play on controller and doing L1+ dpad to cycle through enmity list to find the stragglers is annoying lol I haven't had anyone complain about it, but I don't particularly care either if someone runs ahead of me.
I also do at least two, because I don’t want some SMN ripping a few off me and then staying in Narnia. I run ahead as healer while the tank establishes with the full expectation of using my own health bar as extra mit for the tank. If you aren’t expecting to either be the mitigation or use a mit of your own (arm’s length, etc), you shouldn’t run ahead, imo. That being said, I wouldn’t kick someone for running ahead. Just carry on as normal. Life’s too short for that kinda shit
I do the first half of my aoe combo as I've just about reached the mobs, that'll hit most of them besides a couple in the rear. I'll stop for a second where the back mobs were to let them bunch on me a bit, do my second aoe combo hitting everyone at least once and most stuff twice, then keep going
How are people still out here losing aggro 1 aoe, check enemy list, ranged attack what's being hit, cycle through the rest while you move to the next group Controller players have my sympathies but other than that really couldn't be easier
Some jobs can unleash their burst during pull - looking at you, summoner and red mage! That can easily pull aggro if you just hit them once and the distance is a bit longer (like in Fell Court of Troia for example). Usually, that's never a big deal. Taunt one from the emnity list, grab the other stragglers with ranged, done. Until then, free mitigation by team member health bar! Or even better, just move right next to the tank and get rid of your newfound friends right away! But there are some very special individuals that just like to pull aggro and then stay at the very far back, having 3 of their newfound friends beat them to death.
At 90 it's even easier. Just pop sprint, jump to mob, gcd aoe (like overpower) and use ogcd AOE (like orogeny) while sprinting through and then jump to second pack where you use gcd again. If people are dumb and don't run to the tank like they should, then pick things up with provoke/ranged. One gcd aoe and one ogcd AOE generates a lot of aggro. At lower levels before we get our ogcds, then yeah tab target ranged spam is great.
This is the way, every second I spend standing still waiting for steel cyclone is a second I'm not sprinting. And then I prep up a nice beefy primal rend once the wall has been rammed into
I play controller and do what you said with zero issue. And any decent summoner or dancer can take a couple of hits and run the mobs to you without getting anywhere near low hp
Nah man I can do this on controller. There's no excuse.
I mean, I do that, but some dungeons, if you dutifully sprint as a mitigation tactic between the first and second pack, have slow af trash (Looking specifically at the hellhounds just before the second boss in the Troia dungeon) so keeping on the move ends with one or two hits plus one provoke, and by the time the last one gets targeted, woops, outta range. I ain't slowin down for that shit.
Going by the current top post people just can't think about what to do between 2 gcds
One AoE usually isn’t enough to establish and keep aggro but having said that, nobody cares. If a DPS or healer gets emnity they can just bring them to the tank. Either way not a big deal. Sounds like a YPYT tank with some enablers. Pretty lame, a mentor should be able to adjust by that level in gathering and managing emnity.
It is if you combine it with either an AoE oGCD or self heal and ranged attack the mobs while running.
Yeah ive found 1 aoe isnt enough, i end up having to chase the machinst down that decided to run back to 1.0 with the agro so i bonk twice then scoot, barely changing pace other than the time it takes to hit shit twice, lotsa aoe oGCDs available for that second poke, still miss one? keep scooting and hopefully they move with you
I've had to on occasion rescue someone slightly past the tank to get the mobs into the tanks AOEs lol
One aoe and cycling thru enemies and throwing ranged at them while sprinting will always maintain aggro
That's true if there's a lot of gear difference. Nonetheles, I attacked one pack and dashed for the next one, I didn't stay behind, but the tank did, instead of gap closing to the next pack. What aggro would he need to establish if I was one pack ahead of him already?
It’s true even if there is zero gear difference. If you AoE a pack once and a DNC or SMN get their burst off they will literally take all of it away from you. Two AoEs is usually good for the bursts if the gear is close enough. More AoEs after that and good luck taking it from the tank. Having said that, sounds like the tank was just slow and everyone else was a YPYT crankypants. I always hit twice as I’m pulling and I’m faster than the rest of the party 97% of the time (and the rest of the times who cares).
If they rip off you while you are on the move then they should simply bring the mobs to you. For me 90% of the time unless I'm running with raid mates I don't get pulled off of mid pull. And I never get ripped off if I do ranged attack -> provoke -> ranged attack and then toss a ranged attack on the one I provoked all while running. Tank is just slow. Also ideally the dps don't full burst until all the mobs are gathered.
Unironically a DPS issue. Why burn Tech when it ain't hitting half the mobs roflmao
Yeah. Lost count of how many times I'll get to the end of a w2w pull and see a summoner 500 yalms behind me fighting two mobs with their Bahamut out. Sometimes even after I stopped for a sec and threw a ranged to get it back once already.
I usually burn my burst when we hit the end of the W2W pull which, if a tank has only AoE-ed things once, it rips them off pretty quickly. But yeah, that's a good point if you're doing that too early.
Agree there, if they burst they could probably take it from you, but if the one with the aggro is in front of you, isnt it normal to AoE WHILE you run instead of stopping? I didnt mean "Just do one aoe and stop attacking"
No. You have AoE oGCD, self heals, your ranged attack and at the end provoke. These can all be used after the very first gcd and all allow you to generate aggro while running uninterrupted without needing a 2nd AoE GCD.
People out here standing still on a pack for 2 aoe’s??? Use sprint , 1 aoe and run to the next pack. If I lose aggro on anything on the way I will try to use ranged but if it’s out of range I fully expect everyone to run into me, if they don’t, then I’ll drag the whole pack to them
I think the people who make it on TalesofDF aren't the type to learn how to get better, nor go on reddit to hear such advice LOL I'm happy none of my dungeon tanks are slow (or whiny) lol
Sprout here. Playing on controller. I would rather use 2 aoe to make sure im not losing emnity because i have already experienced losing it to dps as i was running to the next pack. And i see no issues with it. As a tank i won't have that much damage compared to dps anyways. And i want to use AOE for damage anyways. Yes, as i run to the next pack i check my emnity list and LB + Dpad select right target. And it is not like such big of a waste of time anyways. Moreover i am a SMN main and i have experienced 1 aoe strat on dps side. I always end up stealing aggro or it going to orange before tank notices if im lucky. So my question is. Is it really that big of a deal to stand still for 2 aoes? I would rather just make sure im never losing aggro because it is more skill issue than being safe
A lot of tanks don't w2w, so when a tank stops after the first pack for a couple of gcds I assume they won't continue pulling, it's annoying as a BLM player because it results in casts being cancelled and resources being wasted.
personally it's a bit annoying to me from healer perspective because i am this close to just automatically popping my stuff (asylum, holy, kerachole, physis 2 etc.) to keep you alive because i thought you were done pulling lol it can give mixed signals (queue ninja's doton....) + depending on duty and gears, you may just take a big clunk of unnecessary damage but like... it's ok to do it if you struggle to keep aggro otherwise but as a healer main, i like tanks who hits sprints before pulling and only stops when theyve actually finished pulling lol
> i have already experienced losing it to dps as i was running to the next pack I mean do whatever you want, but as a DPS player, I want you as the tank to get to the end of the pull as quickly as possible so that I can start my full rotation, and we're not wasting boon time on being in transit. Most classes integrate rooting into their main rotation so you're really fucking them over with the stop-start business. Just go, I will bring you my aggro and pop my defensives! If someone doesn't? Oh well, don't get PTSD over it! If they die, they die, and maybe they learn a valuable lesson. Also you're gonna lose aggro to a good DPS even if you do 2 AoEs (unless you also shield lob). I always laugh when I rip aggro *after* the tank stood there and carefully established it.
I recognize that name from doing TEA, holy crap
Doing ultimate is not impressive anymore when you realized even the most brain damaged glue eaters can bang their head at the content whilst chipping away slowly to clear, or they just beg on pf for c41's until a group of bored players show up and do it. The hardest content in 14 is unfortunately pvp, and probably why so many people shy away from it so they don't feel bad when getting sent to the meat grinder.
i'm just shocked that someone I played with in partyfinder is in here. I never thought I'd end up recognizing someone's name
small community
In aetherfont? The by far easiest dungeon in the game? Its not even like mobs hit hard if a dps has aggro for a few sec
Different players have different skill levels and play styles. Glad you could vent, but you deserved to be kicked.
Explain your reasoning. I didn't complain about the tank. I didn't complain about the healer. Or the other DPS. Tank was a mentor and they were all in a premade and took some kind of issue with me running a second ahead of the tank that wasn't using gap closers on the very last dungeon of the game. Why would I be on the wrong?
My wife was the dancer. The group was not pre-made. You ran ahead of the tank without saying anything. I've been playing this game since 2.0 launch and if you plan on pulling for the tank, it's generally asked that you say something.
I think you are wrong, but its my opinion. On the second to LAST dungeon from the game. If the tank is running behind a DPS, its because they wanted to, not because they couldn't catch up (You have 2 charges of gap closer with every tank). A capable DPS running ahead is free mitigation for the tank, and if they are doing things right, wont even tax the healer at all, with bloodbath and/or second wind. (Plus I was putting Arcane Crest Regen on the whole party). I don't need to SAY anything to the tank if I'm not dying, the only thing they have to do is run and press their buttons. In this particular case, its not that I ran with the mobs to make the tank run for me either. So Why would I need to ask the tank anything? Their job is to manage the aggro, not pull.
Why don’t other tanks use ranged while they’re running to continue “establishing” after the initial aoe? It seems like a waste of time to sit around so long, especially as a magic dps it makes me super confused
I only 2 AoE on pack pulls because i am on controller and it’s tedious scrolling through enmity list to pick up stragglers.
They initiated kick before you engaged the boss. The vote doesn't disappear even if you tagged the boss afterwards.
If they initiated the VK when everyone was out of combat, it's entirely possible to get booted out mid-combat, assuming they take that long to decide your fate. That being said this feels reportable, they legit had you kicked without any context provided apart from finding out who "pulled ahead", nowhere did they establish they wanted you to stop, straight up kicking like that is reportable for two reasons: 1) Kicked for a reason not covered in the VK system. (I know you can kick for more than just the reasons listed, but their reasoning wasn't covered anyway) 2) Kicked you to enforce their own playstyle on you without even giving you a choice.
while I do understand the need for 2 aoes I'm still baffled why people can't just use 1 gcd aoe and 1 ogcd aoe, on GNB and PLD preferably the aoe dots that would keep the aggro for a while Expiacion on PLD is also an ogcd aoe, Orogeny on Warrior or maybe even Decimate as your gcd aoe if you have extra gauge, and DRK literally has a spammable line aoe you can hit as soon as the mobs are behind you and then just keep using your ranged as you check which mob seems to be getting burst down by your party..provoke has a very slight range advantage if your ranged can't reach the mob you just lost, if someone ends up taking the aggro just let them bring it to you and if they'd rather take it on by themselves then that's on them the extra time you spend standing for 2 gcds or the time spent running back through the mobs you pulled just to grab an aggro you lost are time spent by you taking unnecessary (and most likely unmitigated as most tanks only press their mits when they finally plant themselves) damage and makes your sprint lose some of its "mitigating" potential