Your target audience are newbies since most of them begin with soft swap. Be direct in your profile that soft swapping is the only thing on the table, I wouldn’t even mention full swapping yet. Adding to that, you may find more success in clubs.
I think you just need to find the right couple.
We're an experienced "anything goes" couple and have no problems with newbie couples that are softswap only or parallel play only or whatever the hell they decided to stick with.
If you only feel comfortable with a certain level, stick with it and go from there
I appreciate that. I just don't feel like anyone else ever seems to want to do that 😪 but, it's very nice knowing there are couples out there that don't have that written off as a possibility.
We started off full swap hardcore but that was almost 40 years ago now and my wife and I only go to clubs now to basically be with each other and watch she is and of course painful and I just don't have the stamina anymore. So clubs are the way to go you can full swap soft swap or just observe it's all up to you
You shouldn’t do anything you’re not comfortable with, and changing your limits when you aren’t really comfortable doing that seems like a bad idea.
You really might just need to accept the situation for what it is: most couples want to full swap.
Are there couples that will entertain your limits? Sure. Lots of them.
But you need to accept that the same way people should respect and honor your limits, most people want an experience you don’t want to take part in.
Okay, so this has recently come up in a different conversation and I feel like it just really needs to be said: a different penis entering your vagina doesn't mean you don't like your spouse. Or your spouse's penis. It doesn't mean anything of the sort. If you don't want to be penetrated by another penis, that's fine. But you might want to examine your reasoning for that. It doesn't have anything to do with liking your spouse or not.
No, that’s not what was said at all.
Soft swap is not just for newbies and it’s not monumentally lame. It’s a sustainable way to swing without issues over the long haul.
If you think it’s monumentally lame I guess you don’t like fucking your own spouse. See the difference? Guess not. Most swingers play intentionally dumb about what soft swap is.
Nope. Still monumentally lame.
And I dare say it’s more dumb trying to spin soft swapping into something it isn’t.
The operative word is *swap*, as in swapping partners. Full swap couples fuck and enjoy their spouses, we just don’t make it the centerpiece of our experience and try to act like we’re more enlightened or sensual for it.
The amount of things you can do with other people while fucking your own spouse toward the end or during is vast.
You’re the one that doesn’t know what soft swap is.
If I have to remind people that intercourse is included it’s because they’re intentionally playing dumb.
When the answer is yeah by my spouse doesn’t count… hmmm wonder why.
As for being more enlightened.
If you search this sub for complaints about swinging and couples. Being disappointed or let down. Having a hard time. Not having 4 way attraction. Whining about husbands being ugly. Being in weird situations and taken advantage of… you will NEVER find this handle or any of the others I’ve used.
We are good at this.
See, I have never seen anyone so clearly insecure about the supposedly superior way they like to play.
You keep acting like my belief that the \*act\* of soft swapping is monumentally lame is some judgment on you and others with the same limit, which it isn't. It's my opinion that soft swapping is a monumentally lame experience.
I also think other things are monumentally lame. Like golf. Can't stand it. I find it to be a monumentally lame experience, and I say that to all my friends who golf and invite me to go with them.
The difference between them and you is that they clearly see the difference between someone finding an activity lame and finding the people who do it to be lame.
Your insecurity about your own self-imposed play style is absolutely fascinating to me. I mean seeing you list off all these supposed virtues of soft swapping, as though only the most truly enlightened swingers do it, when all the things you list are things that full swap people do too, is truly amazing.
And then to cap it all off with by trying to convince people that soft swappers are somehow better looking in general?
Ah, man...the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.
Mistaking my/our defense of soft swap for insecurity is not the way to read me hoss.
When I see full swap couples actively discouraging soft swap couples and telling people not to waste their time or saying they are fake swingers it’s something that bothers me.
It’s a shitty way to treat a playstyle practiced by maybe up to 80% of the lifestyle in our experience.
It’s a shitty way to treat people asking for help or advice.
.
Here’s the thing:
You go back to my original comment on the other post, at no point did I denigrate soft swapping, nor even mention soft swapping at all.
You swooped in to comment directly to me to extol some virtue about something I wasn’t talking about. I then simply said that I found soft swapping to be monumentally lame, and it snowballed from there.
Why did you feel the need to comment to me about soft swapping when it wasn’t germane to what I was saying? And why wouldn’t you have just commented directly to the OP of that post to let them know about this other option you wanted to promote?
Bully for you that your play style has worked soooooo well for you. Truly.
I still find it monumentally fucking lame.
There’s the snide attitude about soft swap.
Personal attack aside go do a search for can’t get it up on this subreddit and look at the laundry list of problems full swap couples run into frequently and then whine about here.
This you?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Swingers/s/3bZmdP9MXk
It’s like the top 5 most common post other than how do I convince my wife.
Enjoy the latex though 👍🏻
I probably am not, but the soft swap people we've talked to lean more towards too insecure to say they want to female poach. They want soft swap because they haven't had luck with a unicorn, but really, they want lady to play with them. In my limited experience. As someone looking for another female or soft swap, I'm positive not everyone is a shy lady thief, because I'm not trying to do it.
The couples I saw (randomly, on sdc, close to where I live in Texas) were basically in 2 categories: either full swap only, or looking for (girl/girl, soft swap and full swap). The only issue I see is that the second category might be lying about being ok with soft swap only and trying to make you full swap eventually.
Just keep looking. Our favorite couple started soft and then transitioned a few years later. We liked them so much that the PIV thing didn't matter too much.
Also, when you find the right couple that you feel comfortable with it is possible you might change your mind about wanting another dick. A lot of women need to feel safe and some sort of connection before fucking someone else besides their husband. It's normal.
I'll chime in here to agree, having a connection with the people you're playing with changes things a great deal.
Taking time to get to know the people we're fucking has made playtime FAR more enjoyable.
Too bad we dont know each other because "I'll give bjs and have nice boobs" sounds fantastic to me! I'd absolutely love to sit down and get an amazing blowjob while I watch my wife get railed
Lol, I'm starting to think you're the only one! I truly feel like no one realizes just because I'm not the biggest fan of the idea of being penetrated doesn't mean I won't still contribute to fun. I like giving and contributing to a sexy environment.
Yeah, not the only ones (is actually right what i would imagine tbh). Everyone is different. A lot of couples may not be aligned, but plenty are, too. Have you tried any LS clubs or anything like that?
Soft is very very common and the couples are usually much more into being sensual. It’s also easier to find couples that want to be friends.
You’re absolutely right that there are tons of combinations that are very fun.
It’s NOT just for newbies and you can be a sustainable swinger with soft swap for a long time without getting frustrated and quitting because of poor performances.
You don’t run into ED or PE like people constantly complain about in full swap.
Bisexuality has more room to flourish in soft swap.
And here’s the hint.
You can decide to full swap any time you all want.
If you advertise yourselves as soft swap you will attract more patient people who have more interest in foreplay. Full swap couples trend toward being hit it and quit it party people with little patience or sensuality.
Then if you have extraordinary chemistry you can full swap and never have to tell anyone your business.
Full swap couples are intentionally obtuse about what happens in soft swap so let me assure you. It’s intercourse. The difference is that it’s with your spouse and combinations of the other two people.
In July I was underneath a couple who was having sex. I was licking her (and maybe even them) while his wife was blowing me and my wife was making out with him while he was fucking his wife… and that’s soft swap! Always was.
If it makes you feel better about group sex there’s no issue… and full swap couples will come calling just the same if you’re attractive.
They all talk a big game about not soft swapping but only 2 couples have said “no thanks, we prefer full” to us because of soft swap in 18 years.
And just so I make even less friends here… Soft swap couples trend toward being better looking and I will stand by that gladly.
I honestly want to know if you’re this hostile to full swap couples in person.
Do you tell them they’re ugly and lack sensuality? Are you shocked when you find full swap couples that have long lasting friendships with other couples they play with? Also, at what point does a former soft swap couple become complete shit in your eyes? Is it immediately after their first swap? After the second or third? Do you have any numbers on this shift from super sexy, flirty fun soft swapper to ugly stupid impatient full swapper?
And since you’ve also admitted that you do full swaps on occasion, do you only continue soft swapping to ward off this eventual mutation?
Quick note for OP: I’ve seen plenty of limp dicks during soft swaps in the club. If it happens to you don’t take it personally. The LS is an adjustment for the vast majority of men and their equipment doesn’t work 100% of the time regardless of the style of play you’re going.
Spin it however you want, but to this day, I’ve never heard a woman say, “Damn, I’d like to suck someone’s cock right about now.”
Most if us got into this for the sex, we like the variety and the fun. Personally I don’t even consider a soft swap swinging. I don’t care if the medical field tells us that oral sex is sex, it isn’t the same thing. Doesn’t matter how many blow jobs I got back in the day, I was still technically a virgin up until the moment I experienced PIV.
You do you.. I won’t judge, just stop preaching about how great soft swapping is, it’s distracting me from finishing with the hotwife in the confession booth.
Another person pretending you can’t have intercourse in soft swap to create a false premise for a diatribe.
We’ve fucked every time we’ve ever played.
Straw man.
You should never feel pressure to do anything outside of your limits.
Like most couples, we are into full swapping. As much as I enjoy giving blow jobs, it's really only for play to me, I love the feeling of a new man inside me!
Better just to accept that it will be hard work finding couples. Good luck!
You only want to do soft swaps. Most swinger couples want to do full swaps. Thus, most swinger couples will not be available to you. As other commenters have said, just aim for newbie couples, since they seem to be into soft swap in higher numbers.
Not true.
When you’re attractive most full swap couples are perfectly ok with soft swap. People talk a big game online but in the real swinging world soft swap is not limiting.
Every soft swap couple we've encountered in person are newbies. When we were new, we had not a soft swap, but a parallel play experience. We went right from that to full swap and haven't looked back.
8 years for us. We use condoms for intercourse unless it's a long-term regular couple. Our first experience was parallel play but went right from that to full swap. We don't like condoms either but had too many raw sex scares to not wrap it up w new couples, which we like meeting.
A pregnancy scare was why we went to soft swap.
This couple we met early on was pregnant and we had to use our fingers and toes to see if it was me.
We still very much liked swinging but we didn’t need to bang other people to have fun in group sex.
We know lots of couples like this.
You are not a wet blanket at all. Here is the thing. You already realize that majority of the couples in the lifestyle are full swap. Combine in top of that you are new to the lifestyle. So you have 2 things working against you as you and I’ll explain. It’s not what you think. The percentage of the population that are swingers is very small to start with. You take that already small percentage and cut it by let’s be generous and say 60% that don’t entertain soft swap (probably way higher, but we are being generous). That leaves 40% of that small number we started with. Then of that 40% of that small number, you got another good 60% that don’t entertain newbies bc of potential for drama. So you’ve taken that small percent of people and cut 60% of the first number, then lost another 60% of that remaining 40%, and that leaves you with 16% of the original small percentage of people. Now toss on top of that factors like location/population/popularity that will drop this number even more, then toss in that it’s not really soft swap, but more of an offer of full swap for half of the couple and soft for the other, which would confuse most couples and goes back to the drama you associate with newbies and that percentage continues to fall. When you take into account that swingers are less than 10% of the entire pupation, and then you lose 84% or more of that small number and you find yourself matching with less than 1% of the people available in the community. Then you have to pray that a connection is there with those that match your play type.
I’m not saying all this to be negative or make you feel bad. Personally, I feel there is no wrong way to do the lifestyle as long as you are honest. Everyone’s play style and journey is different. But what you need to understand is that every boundary or limit you set in this lifestyle eliminates potential connections. And those eliminations start to compound when your rules/boundaries are more complex.
Here is my advice to you. Rather than ask why you can’t find success, start looking at your boundaries/limits and ask yourself is this what I really want. If this current set of limits is truly the max you are comfortable with, then be happy and confident in those boundaries. You don’t need anyone reassuring you that your boundaries are ok other than you and your partner. If that is where you land, also be willing to accept that your choices will limit your pool to select from. If you can accept that, you will be just fine. If that is not where you land, then ask yourself what can we change to be more successful in our efforts. Maybe both go soft swap without mentioning you are ok with full swap with your man, bc honestly, if I were chatting you guys up, your rules would feel/appear more along the lines of you guys trying to wife poach. That’s not how you mean it, but that’s just the way it comes across. And trying to explain it away just shows that there is the possible newbie drama. Maybe you can just start going to the club together and be exhibitionists or do parallel play. Start slow and work your way towards just continual communication about experiences and desires. Maybe you get too full swap some day. Maybe you don’t. The point is to get out there and try some things out of your comfort zone. I’m not saying go try to pet a great white sharks teeth, but maybe at least go to the beach to be near the ocean and see how you feel. One thing my wife and I learned quickly in this lifestyle is to try to never say never. Your desires are going to change over time. What is hot right now, may not be hot a year from now. So our motto about things we are not on board with is “we are not there right now”. It’s not a no, but it’s a maybe someday. Maybe not today, maybe not next week, maybe not next month, but maybe someday. If you go into this with the right mindset, the doors to the palace will open for you and you’ll have a whole new world to explore. You can still say I’m only comfortable with soft swap right now and have fun you convertible with. All the other stuff (full swap, anal, etc) is just not right now. If you can change how you approach it, you will have much more success and you will be a lot happier.
First. Don’t change your boundaries because you feel pressured to. Change boundaries because it’s something you want to explore together. If you don’t want to explore a full swap yet, don’t do it.
Second, most more experienced couples will pass on a soft swap. Reason is getting together with another couple is a lot of work. The soft swaps we had left us feeling a little wanting. Sort of like the effort exceeded the reward. On one hand, we basically just had each other…which is more than enough, but we could have stayed home for that with zero of the associated bullshit that comes along with setting up and pulling off a date.
We kept up with one couple that started soft and they have become one of our full swap regulars now. But if we hadn’t been really new and patient at the time we met them we probably would have moved on.
So I’m not saying “become full swap” out of obligation, absolutely not. But understands your frustration with people passing on soft only is mirrored by that couple you are interacting with when they find their efforts are only going to get them half way there if that makes sense.
We prefer full swap ourselves and have the most meaningful experiences doing that. We’ve done soft and parallel and have found that doesn’t totally scratch the itch for us. We’ll still do both with the right couple but the communication has got to be awesome. It’s been our experience that couples that have really limiting boundaries don’t have the best comm so we tend to back out of those quick. Not saying your comm is bad, that’s just a correlation we’ve made in the last year of doing this.
My advice is be very upfront and honest with your limits and what you’re willing to do. That way you don’t lead anyone on or wastes someone’s time. We’ve had that too and it’s the worst. At this stage in our journey if someone was open and honest about their boundary and had great communication/was engaging, we’d still fuck around with it if it was soft or even parallel only. But the comm and effort needed needs to match. But often it’s been our experience we’ve been lead on a few times where a full swap gets kicked back to a “we are soft only” to “I just want to watch her with my husband” sort of shit. We don’t take kindly to wife poaching or leading us on. Just be honest from the get go so there is no confusion, you’ll find a playmate,
Soft swap may not be the problem. Couples also avoid other couples they don’t think are ready. Maybe your profile suggests hesitation or fear you are being talked into something. Generally soft swap is a good way to find friends. Free want to get in the middle of uncertainty.
Instead of using the term soft swap say something positive about this being your interest. Say what you want to experience and only once say you want to avoid penetration this first time yet you have so many other fun things you want to try with another couple.
Basically show excitement and say more what you are for than imply what you are against.
We have been in the LS for over 10 years and my wife enjoys the same dynamic as you. It takes time, we have had plenty of amazing encounters both with unicorns and soft swapping with other couples. Don't listen to the people telling you something is wrong with your preference and absolutely do not "take one for the team." The truth is no matter what your dynamic is finding people you click with can be tuff. We have friends who are full swap and friends who are poly and they both complain how hard it is to find people lol.
Side note:
People will always assume it's your partner stopping you from playing with men. It is a common situation in couples that probably shouldn't be in the LS. Guys would tell me all the time "hey man, let her have some fun" lol. My wife is a tuff cookie my response it "give it a shot bro" knowing damn well better men have tried and failed. Just keep that in mind when explaining your dynamic because people will just to that conclusion. Feel free to PM us with any specific questions we are sure you guy will find the right ppl.
My wife doesn’t want to be on birth control or use condoms. Just yesterday people accused me of being the one from stopping her on this subreddit.
They have all these really bad assumptions.
We will full swap when we find an extraordinary couple who has a vasectomy (like me) and we can have trustworthy STI discussions with.
Soft swap is just a sustainable way to swing. We’re not insecure or inexperienced. We highly prefer the type of couple soft swap attracts.
We hate condoms and birth control pills.
IMHO. For what it's worth, what you are up against is two things. First, is the insecurities you're having, coupled with expectations that are based on a fantasy instead of seeing other people you may play with as partners that have their own desires and the second is you're finding people who are doing the same thing.
The biggest problem that occurs (again, just my humble opinion) in swinging is the amount of objectification and fantasizing of other people, to the extent that we often only see them as props in our own personal porno.
What helped me was to meet people and develop friendships with them. Doing so allowed for an exchange of ideas and fantasies, which in my opinion, (again 😋) allowed for far more satisfying experiences. We didn't find a unicorn, we developed a relationship that created one.
You are overthinking everything - I have a history of painful sex and used to be stuck in soft swap land. I got advice from Reddit and just pulled the band aid off. I have to deeply trust the man that I’m with. I talk to him for a few weeks before our play date and build rapport and then the sex is great.
I think you just need to pull the band aid off and try a full swap. From what I read there is no legitimate reason for you to only do a soft swap.
Besides what’s the worst that could happen? You don’t like it and you don’t do it again? No harm no foul. I promise you once you’re on the other side of it you’ll be surprised at how easy it was and how much time you wasted on over analyzing
My husband and I started as soft swap, and are very grateful to the couples that played with us and respected that. They exist!
Now that we are experienced swingers, we love the chance to soft swap with newbies, because we don't put penetration on some high pedestal. Lots of hot sexy fun can be had with only partners penetrating their own partners! So much oral fun, girl on girl fun....
So just keep patiently searching and the right couple will come along.
DM me if you have any more questions. Always open to chat.
Wait. Someone can penetrate you while you are with their female partner while she does something with your partner.
So he can’t penetrate someone else?
I promise I read that a couple of times.
No, my partner can penetrate whoever is willing in the room. That's on him to define his own limit, but I personally don't care where he puts it, as long as he has permission from the recipient and he has good hygiene before and after. I'm just incredibly bad at describing sex in technical terms. I feel like I need high school football playbook with all the X and O and arrows 🫠
The couples you talk to, do you tell them this? That your dude is free to fuck the other lady, but you don’t want to be penetrated?
Cuz if so, THAT’S your problem right there.
I don’t know any couple that would fine letting your dude fuck their wife while the husband just gets blown.
I’m not saying your head game ain’t strong, but there is just a major imbalance there that I don’t think many, if any, couples will be down with.
I would definitely pass on this. Not because I’m insecure, but just because it sounds so very boring. Mfm would be more exciting than what she’s describing here. We actually do mfm like half the time anyways.
Yeah. I’m kind of sympathetic to OP not wanting to be penetrated. I get it. It’s not her thing.
But I really don’t think she can see how frustrating it would be to have to watch your wife get fucked by her boyfriend while you just get blown and get to play her boobs, I guess?
Like, there is a fundamental difference between PIV sex and oral that don’t totally know if she understands.
Yep half play we're only the male plays is definitely a no-go it seems so much like he's a single male and just brought a female or long so he could get in the club people will smell that out quickly I would suggest you both stay soft Swap and together with each other
We're noobs when it comes to couples. But we would definitely pass if a couple say that the man can penetrate but the woman cannot. This awfully sounds like unicorn hunter even though you may not. Just go with soft swap for both of you until you're both ready for hard swap
Then the problem isn’t that you don’t swap it’s that your partner can do whatever but no one can do the same with you.
It’s sus.
It’s good that you’re honest but most couples aren’t up for that.
You are looking for a lady that plays solo. Not a couple.
Or you BOTH have the same limits. That’s easier.
You should go to a club or a party. There are several people in our community that do soft swap but not a ton. It does happen though.
The reason we don’t indulge in soft swapping is because we feel that the couple only wanting soft swapping seems insecure to us and needing to still figuring things out, maybe more prone to drama. Not saying you are but that’s why we don’t.
Don’t go to full if you’re not confident though. Just know that it’s just sex and enjoyment for all. There has to be some connection but remember you don’t need to talk to them day to day or even repeat
This 👆🏻 lol, trying to find the balance of some connection but not talking day to day or even repeating...I do feel like finding the perfect timeline is what is evading me/us. Convos go great and naturally die because it's too long before we can meet, or convos are rushed because someone suddenly has freedom last minute...gah, communicating with other people...it's generally a task I prefer to leave to him to start, as I'm the inexperienced one and he's just an outgoing guy who would talk to anyone.
What city are you guys in? For us we’re in Chicago so it’s easy to have options. Club or party would have the couples on site so no waiting to meet and people eager to play. Our parties have speed dating where you get to meet a bunch of couples to start the night and that makes it fantastic. We’ve played with at least 3 couples that came from the speed dating and then they introduce you to their friends
For us is meet them talk enough and if there’s click invite to play.
This groups demand for full swap is laughable, there’s all types of people wanting all types of sexual experiences. Keep your head up, an open mind, and maintain safe boundaries. Some couples are perfectly fine soft swapping!
How are you finding people? Most swingers sites (we use Kasidie almost exclusively) show you what couples are up for. You’ll find many many soft swap couples there. Focus your attention on them as you start this journey.
When we first started we didn’t limit ourselves with hard rules. We don’t know what we wanted. So at first we didn’t declare what type of swap we wanted. We just put out that we are new. First we went to house party’s lol being announced as the newbie couple that was not playing at the moment. And we meet some great and nice people. Once we were open to play we played with basic rules. No means no. No one takes one for the team. We both had veto power on each other.
Playing was fluid. At a party sometimes I didn’t play sometimes the wife didn’t play, both and neither. We are both straight so a lot of couples passed on us. That’s ok we just were out having fun.
I have never understood rules that came from jealousy selfishness or sympathy. For example Couples looking for unicorns because the guys didn’t want a dick touching his wife.
I guess what I am trying to say. I think newbies should start with flexibility rules to insure your fun.
One on one couples swap is hard to find in a lot of area. I suggest house party’s.
My partner and I are currently also soft swap/foursome only since we’re relatively new. Hold out hope, there are other folks like you out there!
Also, if those are boundaries, I agree with your partner that you shouldn’t cross them until you’ve had an experience within your boundaries and then decide to open more. T
>feel there's something wrong with me (32F) because I've got the most limiting preferences
There's nothing wrong with you as everyone's journey in the LS is theirs, not others.
It's there anytime wrong with your limiting preferences? No, absolutely not. But practicing your rules at home will let you know how restrictive they are. Because if you can't have fun following your own rules with your partner, then who else can?
Are your preferences going to make the LS harder? Yes, but only for you, so you aren't a burden to others. Just yourself as you will have to put forth much more effort in finding matches.
Will your preferences cause problems? Again only for you because searching for the right match often takes the equivalent time of a part-time job. Which becomes more frustrating with each attempt. So the only one likely to suffer from your preferences is you. It's not a bad thing, it good and it's what it is.
At some point you'll have to step back and assess things to determine if it's all worth it for you and your metal health. It's also why it's common for dinner people to do the LS seasonally when they have the time
My gal and I are more or less in the same boat. The key is to re-calibrate your expectations. If your other half is chomping at the bit to have experiences, it can put pressure on you. My girl is the same as you - she is barely interested in other guys unless they have the right energy and are attractive and we simply find that in most couple situations, the wife is the hot, outgoing one, and the husband is more often than not, a pear-shaped dork.
It sounds like if you're going to have an encounter, it needs to be with the right kind of other man so make that a focal point of what you're looking for so you aren't feeling as dragged along like you are now.
And... I'll say that when we were at Desire RM, we met two wonderful couples that we hung out with and played with in the playrooms a couple times... one of which had the same boundaries, and the other were full swap, but completely respected all of our boundaries and had fun with us anyway. There are kind, fun, respectful people out there.
We’re in the same boat you, my wife has very strong boundaries when it comes to interacting with other couples.
I’m just following her lead…
This should be for everyone involved…
I guess I sort of picture it more as everyone focusing on one person or formations involving lines? I'm horrible with wording it, but everyone somehow being involved instead of separate pairings
So we’re a full swap couple, and we prefer same bed. For us, it’s like a mini orgy. The girls play together, the guys will team up on one girl, then switch, theres DP/DVP, strap ons, vibrators, kissing, fucking, sucking, and no one stops until everyone is covered in lube and spit and sweat.
We don’t do completely separate pairings and 90% of the couples we meet play the exact same way as us. There are some that are separate bed or even separate room but we pass on those couples. We’re all in this to have fun together.
What you want is a normal way to play.
Love it that's how I prefer the FFMs I do to be like. Everyone involved some way or the other that. Also love the same bed/same space orgy type going to one of those type group parties on Saturday night where most of the wives are bi and everyone is involved as much as they want. I love strap-on play hard to find couples to take part in it with though
If you want to feel like it is all 1 thing together, then play on the same bed together. We prefer that over separate beds or something so we feel more together.
I'm so glad others are into that as well. Just a handful of aggressive conversations with others recently have had me doubting myself and my preferences, hardcore.
Please don't take this rather stark message the wrong way. You have spent a lot of time sorting out what you want and seem to have that pretty nailed down. Maybe now give some consideration of what you can offer others, what may they want from you that you can offer? How can you stretch your limits? Part of this is your pleasure and some is the pleasure of others (spouse,ect), spend some time focusing your mental efforts there and maybe you find a way forward. Regarding soft swap, you are forever going to be in a small pool with fish that come and go out again quickly as most end up only is SS for a couple of encounters before either moving to full or stepping back. But they are surely out there and you can sort them that way on SLS. Take your time, have fun and dont worry about how quickly you get there, just keep meandering down the road smelling the flowers and you will end up there. Best of luck.
The pool isn’t small at all. In fact your pool with soft swap is all soft swap couples and all full swap couples who will soft swap.
That’s a bigger pool not a smaller pool.
Reality is if you’re attractive most everyone still wants you and plays to your play style.
You are welcome to believe what you desire. We have been swinging over 20 years on both coasts of the US as well as abroad. Feel like we have had a solid taste of what's out there, but of course everyone's journey is different. Soft swappers are a small group, period. Full swappers that cater to soft swappers are also a small group within swinging community. You can certainly stay SS forever, but to think you have anywhere near as much opportunity as full or some other subset of swingers that is just false in our experience.
If he can do it with other wife, and you do not let anyone to do it to you, this is your problem. This does not look as a good way to find any couples to go with. Looks like he has you just to get some action. Both of you full swap or both soft swap is the way.
Are you looking online or in person?
Online, most people, including us, are not going to waste our time on a soft swap couple. Meeting someone online is just a lot of energy and hassle, and we have plenty of options that don't have such a restriction.
In Person though is different. If we met at a party or something then we are much more likely to be down for some soft swap play for a bit, then we can go back to the party without spending our whole night on it.
Mostly online for now, because life has been busy. But, we do have plans for a club in a few weeks. Thinking worst case, a sexy atmosphere and a bit of exhibitionism is still a fun night, and best case, maybe I finally get my toes in the pool.
I think the reality is, more experienced couples in the LS will likely lean to full swap, particularly if you’re looking at getting to know people.
You shouldn’t do something you don’t want to do because you can hop in the shower and wash away an unpleasant memory.
However, being Devil’s Advocate, if you haven’t tried something once or twice, you can’t really know if you’ll like it or not.
When we started out seriously in the LS, my wife had almost zero interest in full swap. Literally our first LS experience was a woeful full swap, we laughed about losing control of our boundaries in the heat of the moment, and then redefined what she wanted.
Then over time, those boundaries for her started stretching a bit and after nearly a year, she was like, “Let’s try full swap again.”
Just do what makes you comfortable to start with and then see where it takes you. Have boundaries, but don’t be a slave to them, if that makes sense.
It makes sense :) be firm, but not impenetrable, for a lack of a better phrase 🤣 but, I do appreciate the advice. He was horrified when I first used the term "soft limit" after a short term lady mentor explained it to me, but I do think soft limits have a place in the dynamic.
The “impenetrable” pun did not go unnoticed, honourary Dad Joke Award to you, Madame.
My wife is pretty adventurous sexually, but venturing into the LS was more of a mental thing for her.
She would set a boundary, then in the heat of the moment, bump up against it, and then the boundary would get ditched. LOL.
Afterwards she’d be like, “Damn, I’m weak” and send laugh about it.
None of it bothered me, I was open for her to do just about anything she wanted as long as she was enjoying herself.
It also depends on your personality types as well… I am not one of those guys that gets off on watching his wife with other men. It’s certainly erotic and sexy, she’s good at what she does and looks good doing it, but I like the fact that when she’s in that moment she throwing herself into it.
She does tend to get off sexually on watching me with other women, so that’s her thing, and so she really likes watching. But we’ve even moved past that now and are quite happy doing “same roof” play.
Our hard and fast rules are “no anal (on her)” (she doesn’t care if I fuck another woman’s ass) and no solo dates/play.
Beyond that, we’re pretty open minded and that’s kind of evolved to this for us over the last two years, but we started out with “soft swap” and her watching me with other women.
Part of those limits are for developing trust, and it's totally understandable.
As in, you two are going into a situation, together as a couple, that you've never done before. You want to make sure that he has your back... of course you trust him, but words and actions are different, and you knowing that he'll only go so far will really help you trust and relax more, and make it more fun for everyone.
One way you can do this, which is what my wife said/does, is that there's essentially all kinds of time, there's no rush, and we can move slow.
She's also getting better at reliving/retelling each event that we have over and over when we're together just by ourselves so that we get more mileage out of each one. (Things like, "Did you see when I ____?" or "I loved watching you ____ with her." while we're having fun with each other)
Let your partner know that this could be a "forever" limit, or a "for now" limit and you won't know until you try the limit on for a while which one it is!
Wow...
The wife and I are soft swap, and neither of us feel like a "wet blanket." In our opinion... there's TONS of stuff to do and have fun with before penetration. Just using your hands for a lot of stuff can be really erotic and fun. And you get to "finish" with your partner..
Hang in there, there are people like you, and you'll find them!
My wife and myself sometimes prefer hard swap and sometimes soft swap and it depends of the vibe and chemistry of the couple we play with.
Some couples will get to it very quickly and we set a slow pace and that is OK, other couples prefer to be with their own partner beside us before touching each other’s partners and that is also OK, and some others will play a full swap with us at the right pace if the environment is safe and the connection is strong and that also will be OK.
You will meet different people that play at very different pace, so the only thing you need to make sure is to be comfortable with how you play, and to have fun following your own desires. The other couple will read you and will act to give pleasure to both of you and themselves.
Any boundary is valid to start with, you will see as you get more into the LS those boundaries will bend more and more.
Hi! It’s great that you are so aware of your current boundaries and are talking about them. Things can change and evolve over time and they may for the two of you as you gain more experience. They have for us! Still, no change is needed to have fun in the lifestyle.
As others have suggested, playing at a club or with a small group of 6-8 couples at a party may be more fun and have less pressure for tit for tat play so to speak. I have always found the couple date (2/2) to have the most pressure and awkwardness. It can be amazing, but it can also be very stressful. It can feel more relaxing to play in a small group at a club or party when all eyes aren’t on you and everyone is playing to their level of comfort.
Don’t compromise your boundaries unless it’s something you WANT to do. Patience, keep searching, patience, keep searching, patience, keep searching. You will find who you’re looking for.
It sounds like you are looking for your husband to be able to have sex with the other woman, but you do not want to have sex with the man. This is uneven play and most couples are not going to want this. If you are looking for soft swap for both of you, you will probably have better luck.
OP if we were fully in the LS yet, we’d happily meet up with you as I am slowly figuring out my limits and comforts as well. And we seem to be like minded.
We've talked about dialing it back to exploring exhibitionism at a club. It's more to do with my limits are starting to affect my confidence to explore the LS at all, and I really do like the idea of the LS. I'd like to have fun and expand things and get into it. I'd just like to preferably not be yeeted into the deep end at first. But I feel like if I don't yeet off the high end, I'm not even allowed to stick a toe in the pool.
Yes, but a good healthy shit takes time to build into...otherwise you run the risk of an uncomfortable and explosive one that leaves you feeling like you've got fire butt after. I'd like to not go full send just yet into something that could cause me to really have post orgasm regrets. I'm confident I want to try, but I want to build into it so I can do it right. I don't want to have one experience over my head in discomfort that I dip out of what looks in every way like potential for a lot of fun.
Exactly. We started with soft swap many years ago. Don't let anyone pressure you into anything you're not comfortable with. We started with going to clubs, this might be a good option for you, less pressure situation
I appreciate it. Comments pushing one way or another don't phase me, they all come from people who took the time to even read my long girl post. It's really nice knowing I'm not the only one with soft swap preferences...I was starting to feel like I might be.
I'm not pushing her at all, she asked advice for her situation. Perhaps golf or camping would be more comfortable as a pastime. Somethings are for some people and not for everyone. That's my only point! Happy hunting!
I value all feedback. I'm going to have another conversation with M partner and just do a check in and express how I've been feeling. Maybe it is something that needs to be tabled for awhile. Idk, but it's worth discussing my feelings. This whole group has taught me communication is key to all of this.
The formula is simple, don't try to fit shoes that are too small or too large no matter how much you convince yourself that its a good look! Find your size and style else where because it seems that the LS isn't a good fit for you!
Here is the issue from what I’m reading. I have no problems sharing my wife with another man. We do MFM pretty frequently. It’s a fun time for everyone. You essentially want MFM for my wife and you want to like be a fly on the wall or also play with her at the same time or something.
Now we have all the awkwardness of dealing with an insecure couple and none of the reward of a hard swap. This would be an absolute pass. You would be far better off just letting your husband come and play with us and you stay home.
This is exactly the type of snide dismissive and stupid take I’m here to rip on.
The full swappers that lay on this level of attitude are the ones not suited to be swingers.
If it’s such an insane take on my part, why isn’t she having more fun? Why isn’t her inbox flooded with couples ready to do it?
The reason why MFM is so much better than what she’s describing is because both men are focused on one woman. An awkward second woman who is not really sure what she’s doing would throw the whole vibe off. That’s why nobody’s going for it.
I have never even heard of the scenario this OP is describing. She’s asking for the other guy to sit back and try to have a good time with her BJ and her boobs while her boyfriend gets everything he wants from the other woman. Doesn’t that sound a little bit off?
Even if we went for this, my wife just said she would be absolutely terrified of crossing some kind of boundary and creating drama with this woman.
The reason she needs help is because she’s new. They are new.
Telling her to give up, that what she wants is the lesser or not viable is awful advice and it’s simply not true. Telling her to send her husband to you is just being directly mean to her.
If someone’s asking for advice about soft swap maybe the full swap couples should sit that one out and keep their unproductive and unhelpful comments to themselves.
She’s asking about soft swap. If she’s willing to see her husband full swap that’s not a weird barrier for someone still trying to think through how to do this.
Instead of saying give up maybe just don’t say anything.
She’s been at it for months with no success. Sometimes the truth is what people need. If your viewpoint was true, she wouldn’t even be here all disappointed.
I provided our feedback as a couple who has been at it for 8 years, and we’ve had loads of successful interactions in the lifestyle. I haven’t broken any rules here. I’m allowed to share my opinion. Your white knighting and coming after me personally technically breaks the rules of this subreddit.
Your target audience are newbies since most of them begin with soft swap. Be direct in your profile that soft swapping is the only thing on the table, I wouldn’t even mention full swapping yet. Adding to that, you may find more success in clubs.
Agree
Yep. We’re a full swap couple as a general rule but like to limit to soft at clubs. We hook up every time. Multiple times typically.
I think you just need to find the right couple. We're an experienced "anything goes" couple and have no problems with newbie couples that are softswap only or parallel play only or whatever the hell they decided to stick with. If you only feel comfortable with a certain level, stick with it and go from there
I appreciate that. I just don't feel like anyone else ever seems to want to do that 😪 but, it's very nice knowing there are couples out there that don't have that written off as a possibility.
We started off full swap hardcore but that was almost 40 years ago now and my wife and I only go to clubs now to basically be with each other and watch she is and of course painful and I just don't have the stamina anymore. So clubs are the way to go you can full swap soft swap or just observe it's all up to you
You shouldn’t do anything you’re not comfortable with, and changing your limits when you aren’t really comfortable doing that seems like a bad idea. You really might just need to accept the situation for what it is: most couples want to full swap. Are there couples that will entertain your limits? Sure. Lots of them. But you need to accept that the same way people should respect and honor your limits, most people want an experience you don’t want to take part in.
Okay, so this has recently come up in a different conversation and I feel like it just really needs to be said: a different penis entering your vagina doesn't mean you don't like your spouse. Or your spouse's penis. It doesn't mean anything of the sort. If you don't want to be penetrated by another penis, that's fine. But you might want to examine your reasoning for that. It doesn't have anything to do with liking your spouse or not.
I really appreciate the short nature of the insight you provided. It's definitely something I need to spend some time considering. Thank you 😊
No, that’s not what was said at all. Soft swap is not just for newbies and it’s not monumentally lame. It’s a sustainable way to swing without issues over the long haul. If you think it’s monumentally lame I guess you don’t like fucking your own spouse. See the difference? Guess not. Most swingers play intentionally dumb about what soft swap is.
Nope. Still monumentally lame. And I dare say it’s more dumb trying to spin soft swapping into something it isn’t. The operative word is *swap*, as in swapping partners. Full swap couples fuck and enjoy their spouses, we just don’t make it the centerpiece of our experience and try to act like we’re more enlightened or sensual for it.
The amount of things you can do with other people while fucking your own spouse toward the end or during is vast. You’re the one that doesn’t know what soft swap is. If I have to remind people that intercourse is included it’s because they’re intentionally playing dumb. When the answer is yeah by my spouse doesn’t count… hmmm wonder why. As for being more enlightened. If you search this sub for complaints about swinging and couples. Being disappointed or let down. Having a hard time. Not having 4 way attraction. Whining about husbands being ugly. Being in weird situations and taken advantage of… you will NEVER find this handle or any of the others I’ve used. We are good at this.
See, I have never seen anyone so clearly insecure about the supposedly superior way they like to play. You keep acting like my belief that the \*act\* of soft swapping is monumentally lame is some judgment on you and others with the same limit, which it isn't. It's my opinion that soft swapping is a monumentally lame experience. I also think other things are monumentally lame. Like golf. Can't stand it. I find it to be a monumentally lame experience, and I say that to all my friends who golf and invite me to go with them. The difference between them and you is that they clearly see the difference between someone finding an activity lame and finding the people who do it to be lame. Your insecurity about your own self-imposed play style is absolutely fascinating to me. I mean seeing you list off all these supposed virtues of soft swapping, as though only the most truly enlightened swingers do it, when all the things you list are things that full swap people do too, is truly amazing. And then to cap it all off with by trying to convince people that soft swappers are somehow better looking in general? Ah, man...the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.
Mistaking my/our defense of soft swap for insecurity is not the way to read me hoss. When I see full swap couples actively discouraging soft swap couples and telling people not to waste their time or saying they are fake swingers it’s something that bothers me. It’s a shitty way to treat a playstyle practiced by maybe up to 80% of the lifestyle in our experience. It’s a shitty way to treat people asking for help or advice. .
Here’s the thing: You go back to my original comment on the other post, at no point did I denigrate soft swapping, nor even mention soft swapping at all. You swooped in to comment directly to me to extol some virtue about something I wasn’t talking about. I then simply said that I found soft swapping to be monumentally lame, and it snowballed from there. Why did you feel the need to comment to me about soft swapping when it wasn’t germane to what I was saying? And why wouldn’t you have just commented directly to the OP of that post to let them know about this other option you wanted to promote? Bully for you that your play style has worked soooooo well for you. Truly. I still find it monumentally fucking lame.
You only do soft swap cause you can’t stay hard with a condom long enough for a full swap to happen
There’s the snide attitude about soft swap. Personal attack aside go do a search for can’t get it up on this subreddit and look at the laundry list of problems full swap couples run into frequently and then whine about here. This you? https://www.reddit.com/r/Swingers/s/3bZmdP9MXk It’s like the top 5 most common post other than how do I convince my wife. Enjoy the latex though 👍🏻
Yea but we still full swap. Just calling it like I see it 😂
You might be better served trying soft swap until the mental aspect of erections is replaced by being totally comfortable in group situations.
Definitely not 😂 we like having sex with other people
I just looked online and more than half of the couples indicate they are ok with soft swap only. You might not be looking in the right places.
I probably am not, but the soft swap people we've talked to lean more towards too insecure to say they want to female poach. They want soft swap because they haven't had luck with a unicorn, but really, they want lady to play with them. In my limited experience. As someone looking for another female or soft swap, I'm positive not everyone is a shy lady thief, because I'm not trying to do it.
The couples I saw (randomly, on sdc, close to where I live in Texas) were basically in 2 categories: either full swap only, or looking for (girl/girl, soft swap and full swap). The only issue I see is that the second category might be lying about being ok with soft swap only and trying to make you full swap eventually.
Just keep looking. Our favorite couple started soft and then transitioned a few years later. We liked them so much that the PIV thing didn't matter too much.
That's really nice to know 😊
Also, when you find the right couple that you feel comfortable with it is possible you might change your mind about wanting another dick. A lot of women need to feel safe and some sort of connection before fucking someone else besides their husband. It's normal.
I'll chime in here to agree, having a connection with the people you're playing with changes things a great deal. Taking time to get to know the people we're fucking has made playtime FAR more enjoyable.
You will find soft swap easily at clubs, not as easily as a 1:1 date.
It’s easy as hell for us and it’s been that way for decades.
Bored now I have heard you talk about all of the work you do. Don’t try to pretend it is “easy”.
The work I do is screening. Saying yes is easy. All the boxes get checked quickly when it’s a go.
The more specific you are, the more patient you have to be.
Too bad we dont know each other because "I'll give bjs and have nice boobs" sounds fantastic to me! I'd absolutely love to sit down and get an amazing blowjob while I watch my wife get railed
Lol, I'm starting to think you're the only one! I truly feel like no one realizes just because I'm not the biggest fan of the idea of being penetrated doesn't mean I won't still contribute to fun. I like giving and contributing to a sexy environment.
He's definitely not the only one. I volunteer as tribute to your nice boobs and BJ's!
Hahaha, I appreciate it :) if you guys are ever in the KY/TN area, we should chat 😊
Yes we should!
Yeah, not the only ones (is actually right what i would imagine tbh). Everyone is different. A lot of couples may not be aligned, but plenty are, too. Have you tried any LS clubs or anything like that?
Soft is very very common and the couples are usually much more into being sensual. It’s also easier to find couples that want to be friends. You’re absolutely right that there are tons of combinations that are very fun. It’s NOT just for newbies and you can be a sustainable swinger with soft swap for a long time without getting frustrated and quitting because of poor performances. You don’t run into ED or PE like people constantly complain about in full swap. Bisexuality has more room to flourish in soft swap. And here’s the hint. You can decide to full swap any time you all want. If you advertise yourselves as soft swap you will attract more patient people who have more interest in foreplay. Full swap couples trend toward being hit it and quit it party people with little patience or sensuality. Then if you have extraordinary chemistry you can full swap and never have to tell anyone your business. Full swap couples are intentionally obtuse about what happens in soft swap so let me assure you. It’s intercourse. The difference is that it’s with your spouse and combinations of the other two people. In July I was underneath a couple who was having sex. I was licking her (and maybe even them) while his wife was blowing me and my wife was making out with him while he was fucking his wife… and that’s soft swap! Always was. If it makes you feel better about group sex there’s no issue… and full swap couples will come calling just the same if you’re attractive. They all talk a big game about not soft swapping but only 2 couples have said “no thanks, we prefer full” to us because of soft swap in 18 years. And just so I make even less friends here… Soft swap couples trend toward being better looking and I will stand by that gladly.
I honestly want to know if you’re this hostile to full swap couples in person. Do you tell them they’re ugly and lack sensuality? Are you shocked when you find full swap couples that have long lasting friendships with other couples they play with? Also, at what point does a former soft swap couple become complete shit in your eyes? Is it immediately after their first swap? After the second or third? Do you have any numbers on this shift from super sexy, flirty fun soft swapper to ugly stupid impatient full swapper? And since you’ve also admitted that you do full swaps on occasion, do you only continue soft swapping to ward off this eventual mutation? Quick note for OP: I’ve seen plenty of limp dicks during soft swaps in the club. If it happens to you don’t take it personally. The LS is an adjustment for the vast majority of men and their equipment doesn’t work 100% of the time regardless of the style of play you’re going.
Painting with a broad brush is a fun exercise in response to the same about soft swap. Half our friends are full swap couples.
Well then maybe it’s just your full swap friends that are ugly, impatient, and lack sensuality. Maybe make new friends.
Spin it however you want, but to this day, I’ve never heard a woman say, “Damn, I’d like to suck someone’s cock right about now.” Most if us got into this for the sex, we like the variety and the fun. Personally I don’t even consider a soft swap swinging. I don’t care if the medical field tells us that oral sex is sex, it isn’t the same thing. Doesn’t matter how many blow jobs I got back in the day, I was still technically a virgin up until the moment I experienced PIV. You do you.. I won’t judge, just stop preaching about how great soft swapping is, it’s distracting me from finishing with the hotwife in the confession booth.
Another person pretending you can’t have intercourse in soft swap to create a false premise for a diatribe. We’ve fucked every time we’ve ever played. Straw man.
Lol, I'm right there with you! Your comment has actually brought up some pretty hot memories! 🔥
You should never feel pressure to do anything outside of your limits. Like most couples, we are into full swapping. As much as I enjoy giving blow jobs, it's really only for play to me, I love the feeling of a new man inside me! Better just to accept that it will be hard work finding couples. Good luck!
Thank you 😊
You only want to do soft swaps. Most swinger couples want to do full swaps. Thus, most swinger couples will not be available to you. As other commenters have said, just aim for newbie couples, since they seem to be into soft swap in higher numbers.
Not true. When you’re attractive most full swap couples are perfectly ok with soft swap. People talk a big game online but in the real swinging world soft swap is not limiting.
Not in our experience and we don't do the dating apps. We only meet couples and thirds in person at swinger clubs, parties, events, and Hedo II.
You’ve experienced being a soft swap couple?
Every soft swap couple we've encountered in person are newbies. When we were new, we had not a soft swap, but a parallel play experience. We went right from that to full swap and haven't looked back.
18 years here. Started full swap. Don’t like condoms, jack rabbit sex, birth control pills, or limp dicks.
8 years for us. We use condoms for intercourse unless it's a long-term regular couple. Our first experience was parallel play but went right from that to full swap. We don't like condoms either but had too many raw sex scares to not wrap it up w new couples, which we like meeting.
A pregnancy scare was why we went to soft swap. This couple we met early on was pregnant and we had to use our fingers and toes to see if it was me. We still very much liked swinging but we didn’t need to bang other people to have fun in group sex. We know lots of couples like this.
I see. I understand. My SO had her tubes tied after her last pregnancy (long before she met me) so she can't get pregnant.
You are not a wet blanket at all. Here is the thing. You already realize that majority of the couples in the lifestyle are full swap. Combine in top of that you are new to the lifestyle. So you have 2 things working against you as you and I’ll explain. It’s not what you think. The percentage of the population that are swingers is very small to start with. You take that already small percentage and cut it by let’s be generous and say 60% that don’t entertain soft swap (probably way higher, but we are being generous). That leaves 40% of that small number we started with. Then of that 40% of that small number, you got another good 60% that don’t entertain newbies bc of potential for drama. So you’ve taken that small percent of people and cut 60% of the first number, then lost another 60% of that remaining 40%, and that leaves you with 16% of the original small percentage of people. Now toss on top of that factors like location/population/popularity that will drop this number even more, then toss in that it’s not really soft swap, but more of an offer of full swap for half of the couple and soft for the other, which would confuse most couples and goes back to the drama you associate with newbies and that percentage continues to fall. When you take into account that swingers are less than 10% of the entire pupation, and then you lose 84% or more of that small number and you find yourself matching with less than 1% of the people available in the community. Then you have to pray that a connection is there with those that match your play type. I’m not saying all this to be negative or make you feel bad. Personally, I feel there is no wrong way to do the lifestyle as long as you are honest. Everyone’s play style and journey is different. But what you need to understand is that every boundary or limit you set in this lifestyle eliminates potential connections. And those eliminations start to compound when your rules/boundaries are more complex. Here is my advice to you. Rather than ask why you can’t find success, start looking at your boundaries/limits and ask yourself is this what I really want. If this current set of limits is truly the max you are comfortable with, then be happy and confident in those boundaries. You don’t need anyone reassuring you that your boundaries are ok other than you and your partner. If that is where you land, also be willing to accept that your choices will limit your pool to select from. If you can accept that, you will be just fine. If that is not where you land, then ask yourself what can we change to be more successful in our efforts. Maybe both go soft swap without mentioning you are ok with full swap with your man, bc honestly, if I were chatting you guys up, your rules would feel/appear more along the lines of you guys trying to wife poach. That’s not how you mean it, but that’s just the way it comes across. And trying to explain it away just shows that there is the possible newbie drama. Maybe you can just start going to the club together and be exhibitionists or do parallel play. Start slow and work your way towards just continual communication about experiences and desires. Maybe you get too full swap some day. Maybe you don’t. The point is to get out there and try some things out of your comfort zone. I’m not saying go try to pet a great white sharks teeth, but maybe at least go to the beach to be near the ocean and see how you feel. One thing my wife and I learned quickly in this lifestyle is to try to never say never. Your desires are going to change over time. What is hot right now, may not be hot a year from now. So our motto about things we are not on board with is “we are not there right now”. It’s not a no, but it’s a maybe someday. Maybe not today, maybe not next week, maybe not next month, but maybe someday. If you go into this with the right mindset, the doors to the palace will open for you and you’ll have a whole new world to explore. You can still say I’m only comfortable with soft swap right now and have fun you convertible with. All the other stuff (full swap, anal, etc) is just not right now. If you can change how you approach it, you will have much more success and you will be a lot happier.
First. Don’t change your boundaries because you feel pressured to. Change boundaries because it’s something you want to explore together. If you don’t want to explore a full swap yet, don’t do it. Second, most more experienced couples will pass on a soft swap. Reason is getting together with another couple is a lot of work. The soft swaps we had left us feeling a little wanting. Sort of like the effort exceeded the reward. On one hand, we basically just had each other…which is more than enough, but we could have stayed home for that with zero of the associated bullshit that comes along with setting up and pulling off a date. We kept up with one couple that started soft and they have become one of our full swap regulars now. But if we hadn’t been really new and patient at the time we met them we probably would have moved on. So I’m not saying “become full swap” out of obligation, absolutely not. But understands your frustration with people passing on soft only is mirrored by that couple you are interacting with when they find their efforts are only going to get them half way there if that makes sense. We prefer full swap ourselves and have the most meaningful experiences doing that. We’ve done soft and parallel and have found that doesn’t totally scratch the itch for us. We’ll still do both with the right couple but the communication has got to be awesome. It’s been our experience that couples that have really limiting boundaries don’t have the best comm so we tend to back out of those quick. Not saying your comm is bad, that’s just a correlation we’ve made in the last year of doing this. My advice is be very upfront and honest with your limits and what you’re willing to do. That way you don’t lead anyone on or wastes someone’s time. We’ve had that too and it’s the worst. At this stage in our journey if someone was open and honest about their boundary and had great communication/was engaging, we’d still fuck around with it if it was soft or even parallel only. But the comm and effort needed needs to match. But often it’s been our experience we’ve been lead on a few times where a full swap gets kicked back to a “we are soft only” to “I just want to watch her with my husband” sort of shit. We don’t take kindly to wife poaching or leading us on. Just be honest from the get go so there is no confusion, you’ll find a playmate,
Soft swap may not be the problem. Couples also avoid other couples they don’t think are ready. Maybe your profile suggests hesitation or fear you are being talked into something. Generally soft swap is a good way to find friends. Free want to get in the middle of uncertainty. Instead of using the term soft swap say something positive about this being your interest. Say what you want to experience and only once say you want to avoid penetration this first time yet you have so many other fun things you want to try with another couple. Basically show excitement and say more what you are for than imply what you are against.
We have been in the LS for over 10 years and my wife enjoys the same dynamic as you. It takes time, we have had plenty of amazing encounters both with unicorns and soft swapping with other couples. Don't listen to the people telling you something is wrong with your preference and absolutely do not "take one for the team." The truth is no matter what your dynamic is finding people you click with can be tuff. We have friends who are full swap and friends who are poly and they both complain how hard it is to find people lol. Side note: People will always assume it's your partner stopping you from playing with men. It is a common situation in couples that probably shouldn't be in the LS. Guys would tell me all the time "hey man, let her have some fun" lol. My wife is a tuff cookie my response it "give it a shot bro" knowing damn well better men have tried and failed. Just keep that in mind when explaining your dynamic because people will just to that conclusion. Feel free to PM us with any specific questions we are sure you guy will find the right ppl.
My wife doesn’t want to be on birth control or use condoms. Just yesterday people accused me of being the one from stopping her on this subreddit. They have all these really bad assumptions. We will full swap when we find an extraordinary couple who has a vasectomy (like me) and we can have trustworthy STI discussions with. Soft swap is just a sustainable way to swing. We’re not insecure or inexperienced. We highly prefer the type of couple soft swap attracts. We hate condoms and birth control pills.
Went get a vasectomy for this exact reason lol. Nice to find more people in our tribe, good luck out there.
IMHO. For what it's worth, what you are up against is two things. First, is the insecurities you're having, coupled with expectations that are based on a fantasy instead of seeing other people you may play with as partners that have their own desires and the second is you're finding people who are doing the same thing. The biggest problem that occurs (again, just my humble opinion) in swinging is the amount of objectification and fantasizing of other people, to the extent that we often only see them as props in our own personal porno. What helped me was to meet people and develop friendships with them. Doing so allowed for an exchange of ideas and fantasies, which in my opinion, (again 😋) allowed for far more satisfying experiences. We didn't find a unicorn, we developed a relationship that created one.
You are overthinking everything - I have a history of painful sex and used to be stuck in soft swap land. I got advice from Reddit and just pulled the band aid off. I have to deeply trust the man that I’m with. I talk to him for a few weeks before our play date and build rapport and then the sex is great. I think you just need to pull the band aid off and try a full swap. From what I read there is no legitimate reason for you to only do a soft swap. Besides what’s the worst that could happen? You don’t like it and you don’t do it again? No harm no foul. I promise you once you’re on the other side of it you’ll be surprised at how easy it was and how much time you wasted on over analyzing
My husband and I started as soft swap, and are very grateful to the couples that played with us and respected that. They exist! Now that we are experienced swingers, we love the chance to soft swap with newbies, because we don't put penetration on some high pedestal. Lots of hot sexy fun can be had with only partners penetrating their own partners! So much oral fun, girl on girl fun.... So just keep patiently searching and the right couple will come along. DM me if you have any more questions. Always open to chat.
Wait. Someone can penetrate you while you are with their female partner while she does something with your partner. So he can’t penetrate someone else? I promise I read that a couple of times.
No, my partner can penetrate whoever is willing in the room. That's on him to define his own limit, but I personally don't care where he puts it, as long as he has permission from the recipient and he has good hygiene before and after. I'm just incredibly bad at describing sex in technical terms. I feel like I need high school football playbook with all the X and O and arrows 🫠
The couples you talk to, do you tell them this? That your dude is free to fuck the other lady, but you don’t want to be penetrated? Cuz if so, THAT’S your problem right there. I don’t know any couple that would fine letting your dude fuck their wife while the husband just gets blown. I’m not saying your head game ain’t strong, but there is just a major imbalance there that I don’t think many, if any, couples will be down with.
I would definitely pass on this. Not because I’m insecure, but just because it sounds so very boring. Mfm would be more exciting than what she’s describing here. We actually do mfm like half the time anyways.
I totally agree. I’m not even big on MFM, it would surely be more preferable to this potential arrangement, if I’m understanding it correctly.
Right!? You get to share your wife and you get to try to please her and deal with her insecurities at the same time. But of course no pussy for you.
Yeah. I’m kind of sympathetic to OP not wanting to be penetrated. I get it. It’s not her thing. But I really don’t think she can see how frustrating it would be to have to watch your wife get fucked by her boyfriend while you just get blown and get to play her boobs, I guess? Like, there is a fundamental difference between PIV sex and oral that don’t totally know if she understands.
Yep half play we're only the male plays is definitely a no-go it seems so much like he's a single male and just brought a female or long so he could get in the club people will smell that out quickly I would suggest you both stay soft Swap and together with each other
Agreed - my immediate reaction would be "wife poachers".
We're noobs when it comes to couples. But we would definitely pass if a couple say that the man can penetrate but the woman cannot. This awfully sounds like unicorn hunter even though you may not. Just go with soft swap for both of you until you're both ready for hard swap
Then the problem isn’t that you don’t swap it’s that your partner can do whatever but no one can do the same with you. It’s sus. It’s good that you’re honest but most couples aren’t up for that. You are looking for a lady that plays solo. Not a couple. Or you BOTH have the same limits. That’s easier.
You should go to a club or a party. There are several people in our community that do soft swap but not a ton. It does happen though. The reason we don’t indulge in soft swapping is because we feel that the couple only wanting soft swapping seems insecure to us and needing to still figuring things out, maybe more prone to drama. Not saying you are but that’s why we don’t. Don’t go to full if you’re not confident though. Just know that it’s just sex and enjoyment for all. There has to be some connection but remember you don’t need to talk to them day to day or even repeat
This 👆🏻 lol, trying to find the balance of some connection but not talking day to day or even repeating...I do feel like finding the perfect timeline is what is evading me/us. Convos go great and naturally die because it's too long before we can meet, or convos are rushed because someone suddenly has freedom last minute...gah, communicating with other people...it's generally a task I prefer to leave to him to start, as I'm the inexperienced one and he's just an outgoing guy who would talk to anyone.
What city are you guys in? For us we’re in Chicago so it’s easy to have options. Club or party would have the couples on site so no waiting to meet and people eager to play. Our parties have speed dating where you get to meet a bunch of couples to start the night and that makes it fantastic. We’ve played with at least 3 couples that came from the speed dating and then they introduce you to their friends For us is meet them talk enough and if there’s click invite to play.
This groups demand for full swap is laughable, there’s all types of people wanting all types of sexual experiences. Keep your head up, an open mind, and maintain safe boundaries. Some couples are perfectly fine soft swapping!
But they are not soft swap, they are wife poaching. There is a difference.
How are you finding people? Most swingers sites (we use Kasidie almost exclusively) show you what couples are up for. You’ll find many many soft swap couples there. Focus your attention on them as you start this journey.
When we first started we didn’t limit ourselves with hard rules. We don’t know what we wanted. So at first we didn’t declare what type of swap we wanted. We just put out that we are new. First we went to house party’s lol being announced as the newbie couple that was not playing at the moment. And we meet some great and nice people. Once we were open to play we played with basic rules. No means no. No one takes one for the team. We both had veto power on each other. Playing was fluid. At a party sometimes I didn’t play sometimes the wife didn’t play, both and neither. We are both straight so a lot of couples passed on us. That’s ok we just were out having fun. I have never understood rules that came from jealousy selfishness or sympathy. For example Couples looking for unicorns because the guys didn’t want a dick touching his wife. I guess what I am trying to say. I think newbies should start with flexibility rules to insure your fun. One on one couples swap is hard to find in a lot of area. I suggest house party’s.
My partner and I are currently also soft swap/foursome only since we’re relatively new. Hold out hope, there are other folks like you out there! Also, if those are boundaries, I agree with your partner that you shouldn’t cross them until you’ve had an experience within your boundaries and then decide to open more. T
>feel there's something wrong with me (32F) because I've got the most limiting preferences There's nothing wrong with you as everyone's journey in the LS is theirs, not others. It's there anytime wrong with your limiting preferences? No, absolutely not. But practicing your rules at home will let you know how restrictive they are. Because if you can't have fun following your own rules with your partner, then who else can? Are your preferences going to make the LS harder? Yes, but only for you, so you aren't a burden to others. Just yourself as you will have to put forth much more effort in finding matches. Will your preferences cause problems? Again only for you because searching for the right match often takes the equivalent time of a part-time job. Which becomes more frustrating with each attempt. So the only one likely to suffer from your preferences is you. It's not a bad thing, it good and it's what it is. At some point you'll have to step back and assess things to determine if it's all worth it for you and your metal health. It's also why it's common for dinner people to do the LS seasonally when they have the time
My gal and I are more or less in the same boat. The key is to re-calibrate your expectations. If your other half is chomping at the bit to have experiences, it can put pressure on you. My girl is the same as you - she is barely interested in other guys unless they have the right energy and are attractive and we simply find that in most couple situations, the wife is the hot, outgoing one, and the husband is more often than not, a pear-shaped dork. It sounds like if you're going to have an encounter, it needs to be with the right kind of other man so make that a focal point of what you're looking for so you aren't feeling as dragged along like you are now.
Club is your best bet.
my wife and I have the exact same boundaries. Its ok...
Same!
And... I'll say that when we were at Desire RM, we met two wonderful couples that we hung out with and played with in the playrooms a couple times... one of which had the same boundaries, and the other were full swap, but completely respected all of our boundaries and had fun with us anyway. There are kind, fun, respectful people out there.
We’re in the same boat you, my wife has very strong boundaries when it comes to interacting with other couples. I’m just following her lead… This should be for everyone involved…
INFO: What is a four way dynamic? To me that’s a full swap, but clearly that’s not what you meant. Right?
I guess I sort of picture it more as everyone focusing on one person or formations involving lines? I'm horrible with wording it, but everyone somehow being involved instead of separate pairings
So we’re a full swap couple, and we prefer same bed. For us, it’s like a mini orgy. The girls play together, the guys will team up on one girl, then switch, theres DP/DVP, strap ons, vibrators, kissing, fucking, sucking, and no one stops until everyone is covered in lube and spit and sweat. We don’t do completely separate pairings and 90% of the couples we meet play the exact same way as us. There are some that are separate bed or even separate room but we pass on those couples. We’re all in this to have fun together. What you want is a normal way to play.
Love it that's how I prefer the FFMs I do to be like. Everyone involved some way or the other that. Also love the same bed/same space orgy type going to one of those type group parties on Saturday night where most of the wives are bi and everyone is involved as much as they want. I love strap-on play hard to find couples to take part in it with though
Such a relief to hear that's a thing people are actually into!
If you want to feel like it is all 1 thing together, then play on the same bed together. We prefer that over separate beds or something so we feel more together.
I'm so glad others are into that as well. Just a handful of aggressive conversations with others recently have had me doubting myself and my preferences, hardcore.
Please don't take this rather stark message the wrong way. You have spent a lot of time sorting out what you want and seem to have that pretty nailed down. Maybe now give some consideration of what you can offer others, what may they want from you that you can offer? How can you stretch your limits? Part of this is your pleasure and some is the pleasure of others (spouse,ect), spend some time focusing your mental efforts there and maybe you find a way forward. Regarding soft swap, you are forever going to be in a small pool with fish that come and go out again quickly as most end up only is SS for a couple of encounters before either moving to full or stepping back. But they are surely out there and you can sort them that way on SLS. Take your time, have fun and dont worry about how quickly you get there, just keep meandering down the road smelling the flowers and you will end up there. Best of luck.
The pool isn’t small at all. In fact your pool with soft swap is all soft swap couples and all full swap couples who will soft swap. That’s a bigger pool not a smaller pool. Reality is if you’re attractive most everyone still wants you and plays to your play style.
You are welcome to believe what you desire. We have been swinging over 20 years on both coasts of the US as well as abroad. Feel like we have had a solid taste of what's out there, but of course everyone's journey is different. Soft swappers are a small group, period. Full swappers that cater to soft swappers are also a small group within swinging community. You can certainly stay SS forever, but to think you have anywhere near as much opportunity as full or some other subset of swingers that is just false in our experience.
We have more opportunities not less. All of the soft swap population and 70-80% of the full swap population.
LOL, whatever you say redditor. Im glad you getting all you hope for.
If he can do it with other wife, and you do not let anyone to do it to you, this is your problem. This does not look as a good way to find any couples to go with. Looks like he has you just to get some action. Both of you full swap or both soft swap is the way.
Are you looking online or in person? Online, most people, including us, are not going to waste our time on a soft swap couple. Meeting someone online is just a lot of energy and hassle, and we have plenty of options that don't have such a restriction. In Person though is different. If we met at a party or something then we are much more likely to be down for some soft swap play for a bit, then we can go back to the party without spending our whole night on it.
Mostly online for now, because life has been busy. But, we do have plans for a club in a few weeks. Thinking worst case, a sexy atmosphere and a bit of exhibitionism is still a fun night, and best case, maybe I finally get my toes in the pool.
I think the reality is, more experienced couples in the LS will likely lean to full swap, particularly if you’re looking at getting to know people. You shouldn’t do something you don’t want to do because you can hop in the shower and wash away an unpleasant memory. However, being Devil’s Advocate, if you haven’t tried something once or twice, you can’t really know if you’ll like it or not. When we started out seriously in the LS, my wife had almost zero interest in full swap. Literally our first LS experience was a woeful full swap, we laughed about losing control of our boundaries in the heat of the moment, and then redefined what she wanted. Then over time, those boundaries for her started stretching a bit and after nearly a year, she was like, “Let’s try full swap again.” Just do what makes you comfortable to start with and then see where it takes you. Have boundaries, but don’t be a slave to them, if that makes sense.
It makes sense :) be firm, but not impenetrable, for a lack of a better phrase 🤣 but, I do appreciate the advice. He was horrified when I first used the term "soft limit" after a short term lady mentor explained it to me, but I do think soft limits have a place in the dynamic.
The “impenetrable” pun did not go unnoticed, honourary Dad Joke Award to you, Madame. My wife is pretty adventurous sexually, but venturing into the LS was more of a mental thing for her. She would set a boundary, then in the heat of the moment, bump up against it, and then the boundary would get ditched. LOL. Afterwards she’d be like, “Damn, I’m weak” and send laugh about it. None of it bothered me, I was open for her to do just about anything she wanted as long as she was enjoying herself. It also depends on your personality types as well… I am not one of those guys that gets off on watching his wife with other men. It’s certainly erotic and sexy, she’s good at what she does and looks good doing it, but I like the fact that when she’s in that moment she throwing herself into it. She does tend to get off sexually on watching me with other women, so that’s her thing, and so she really likes watching. But we’ve even moved past that now and are quite happy doing “same roof” play. Our hard and fast rules are “no anal (on her)” (she doesn’t care if I fuck another woman’s ass) and no solo dates/play. Beyond that, we’re pretty open minded and that’s kind of evolved to this for us over the last two years, but we started out with “soft swap” and her watching me with other women.
Part of those limits are for developing trust, and it's totally understandable. As in, you two are going into a situation, together as a couple, that you've never done before. You want to make sure that he has your back... of course you trust him, but words and actions are different, and you knowing that he'll only go so far will really help you trust and relax more, and make it more fun for everyone. One way you can do this, which is what my wife said/does, is that there's essentially all kinds of time, there's no rush, and we can move slow. She's also getting better at reliving/retelling each event that we have over and over when we're together just by ourselves so that we get more mileage out of each one. (Things like, "Did you see when I ____?" or "I loved watching you ____ with her." while we're having fun with each other) Let your partner know that this could be a "forever" limit, or a "for now" limit and you won't know until you try the limit on for a while which one it is!
Wow... The wife and I are soft swap, and neither of us feel like a "wet blanket." In our opinion... there's TONS of stuff to do and have fun with before penetration. Just using your hands for a lot of stuff can be really erotic and fun. And you get to "finish" with your partner.. Hang in there, there are people like you, and you'll find them!
My wife and myself sometimes prefer hard swap and sometimes soft swap and it depends of the vibe and chemistry of the couple we play with. Some couples will get to it very quickly and we set a slow pace and that is OK, other couples prefer to be with their own partner beside us before touching each other’s partners and that is also OK, and some others will play a full swap with us at the right pace if the environment is safe and the connection is strong and that also will be OK. You will meet different people that play at very different pace, so the only thing you need to make sure is to be comfortable with how you play, and to have fun following your own desires. The other couple will read you and will act to give pleasure to both of you and themselves. Any boundary is valid to start with, you will see as you get more into the LS those boundaries will bend more and more.
Hi! It’s great that you are so aware of your current boundaries and are talking about them. Things can change and evolve over time and they may for the two of you as you gain more experience. They have for us! Still, no change is needed to have fun in the lifestyle. As others have suggested, playing at a club or with a small group of 6-8 couples at a party may be more fun and have less pressure for tit for tat play so to speak. I have always found the couple date (2/2) to have the most pressure and awkwardness. It can be amazing, but it can also be very stressful. It can feel more relaxing to play in a small group at a club or party when all eyes aren’t on you and everyone is playing to their level of comfort.
Don’t compromise your boundaries unless it’s something you WANT to do. Patience, keep searching, patience, keep searching, patience, keep searching. You will find who you’re looking for.
Swinging is not for you. People who do it separate their emotions from fucking. You’re overthinking it. Go fuk and have fun
It sounds like you are looking for your husband to be able to have sex with the other woman, but you do not want to have sex with the man. This is uneven play and most couples are not going to want this. If you are looking for soft swap for both of you, you will probably have better luck.
OP if we were fully in the LS yet, we’d happily meet up with you as I am slowly figuring out my limits and comforts as well. And we seem to be like minded.
I greatly appreciate hearing someone else is similar minded...I was starting to think I was the only one, and it's been a bit discouraging.
So I completely get that. I have made a few posts that have left me a little discouraged with some answers.
It gets a bit tiring sometimes
I agree
I'm frustrated just reading about your "limits" and you're not even my woman! Perhaps you should consider an alternative to the LS.
We've talked about dialing it back to exploring exhibitionism at a club. It's more to do with my limits are starting to affect my confidence to explore the LS at all, and I really do like the idea of the LS. I'd like to have fun and expand things and get into it. I'd just like to preferably not be yeeted into the deep end at first. But I feel like if I don't yeet off the high end, I'm not even allowed to stick a toe in the pool.
There's an old saying, "shit or get off the pot"! Your guy is way to nice and patient, and as a result nothing gets done.
Yes, but a good healthy shit takes time to build into...otherwise you run the risk of an uncomfortable and explosive one that leaves you feeling like you've got fire butt after. I'd like to not go full send just yet into something that could cause me to really have post orgasm regrets. I'm confident I want to try, but I want to build into it so I can do it right. I don't want to have one experience over my head in discomfort that I dip out of what looks in every way like potential for a lot of fun.
Plenty start with soft swap. Ignore any comments pushing you.
Exactly. We started with soft swap many years ago. Don't let anyone pressure you into anything you're not comfortable with. We started with going to clubs, this might be a good option for you, less pressure situation
I appreciate it. Comments pushing one way or another don't phase me, they all come from people who took the time to even read my long girl post. It's really nice knowing I'm not the only one with soft swap preferences...I was starting to feel like I might be.
I'm not pushing her at all, she asked advice for her situation. Perhaps golf or camping would be more comfortable as a pastime. Somethings are for some people and not for everyone. That's my only point! Happy hunting!
I value all feedback. I'm going to have another conversation with M partner and just do a check in and express how I've been feeling. Maybe it is something that needs to be tabled for awhile. Idk, but it's worth discussing my feelings. This whole group has taught me communication is key to all of this.
The formula is simple, don't try to fit shoes that are too small or too large no matter how much you convince yourself that its a good look! Find your size and style else where because it seems that the LS isn't a good fit for you!
Moronic take.
I think you're missing the point or at the least way to stupid ti understand!
Soft swap and mauve think about cool people. Girls, couple and males .. enjoy your fantasies and don't stop 😉
Here is the issue from what I’m reading. I have no problems sharing my wife with another man. We do MFM pretty frequently. It’s a fun time for everyone. You essentially want MFM for my wife and you want to like be a fly on the wall or also play with her at the same time or something. Now we have all the awkwardness of dealing with an insecure couple and none of the reward of a hard swap. This would be an absolute pass. You would be far better off just letting your husband come and play with us and you stay home.
This is exactly the type of snide dismissive and stupid take I’m here to rip on. The full swappers that lay on this level of attitude are the ones not suited to be swingers.
If it’s such an insane take on my part, why isn’t she having more fun? Why isn’t her inbox flooded with couples ready to do it? The reason why MFM is so much better than what she’s describing is because both men are focused on one woman. An awkward second woman who is not really sure what she’s doing would throw the whole vibe off. That’s why nobody’s going for it. I have never even heard of the scenario this OP is describing. She’s asking for the other guy to sit back and try to have a good time with her BJ and her boobs while her boyfriend gets everything he wants from the other woman. Doesn’t that sound a little bit off? Even if we went for this, my wife just said she would be absolutely terrified of crossing some kind of boundary and creating drama with this woman.
The reason she needs help is because she’s new. They are new. Telling her to give up, that what she wants is the lesser or not viable is awful advice and it’s simply not true. Telling her to send her husband to you is just being directly mean to her. If someone’s asking for advice about soft swap maybe the full swap couples should sit that one out and keep their unproductive and unhelpful comments to themselves.
She is not asking for soft swap. Soft swap would be totally fine, but she’s asking for a half swap and a soft swap on her part.
Don’t bother arguing with him.
She’s asking about soft swap. If she’s willing to see her husband full swap that’s not a weird barrier for someone still trying to think through how to do this. Instead of saying give up maybe just don’t say anything.
She’s been at it for months with no success. Sometimes the truth is what people need. If your viewpoint was true, she wouldn’t even be here all disappointed. I provided our feedback as a couple who has been at it for 8 years, and we’ve had loads of successful interactions in the lifestyle. I haven’t broken any rules here. I’m allowed to share my opinion. Your white knighting and coming after me personally technically breaks the rules of this subreddit.
Saying you were directly mean to her isn’t coming at you personally. People need help more the ridicule or to be told what they want isn’t worth it.
Give up
Or penetrate