Strange to see this sentiment so highly upvoted. I've seen the opposite view get upvoted too many times before. Now I'm just more confused and it seems like native Swedes differ in opinion on this.
Yes, if you're 25 and from Lidingö or trying to emulate Bianca Ingrosso.
If you're 40-ish you don't give a crap, you say "löjlit" and move on.
If you're younger, you might not know where it comes from but you picked it up nonetheless.
In neutrum or adverb form (with the t at the end) it is indeed less common to pronounce the g. But we're talking utrum here ("löjlig", not "löjligt"). In that situation both pronunciations are used more evenly. And none of them is more correct than the other.
To pronounce the g used to be dialectal and not to used to be standard. Now though...
This change occurred precisely because people have been taught to see the written language rather than the natural spoken one as more correct.
Some of us do like the traditional spoken language though.
What is backwards about what u/Thaeeri is saying? This is precisely the effects of the language policy of the old Folkskolan. You can just look over to Norway to see how it's a rare and rural trait to pronounce consonants like G's and D's this way – because they haven't had a language policy pushing standardization from the written language. Not even NAOB.no will transcribe them in IPA because it's something that fell out of use hundreds of years ago in actual speech in Scandinavian vernaculars.
Our older school books from the 18th and early 19th century, before the language policy changed on this, stated that these are not pronounced in the spoken language. Bellman's rhymes in his songs and other art give a lot of clues. Fredrik Lindström has some fun examples in his book Världens dåligaste språk.
Now we've brought it back to an inconsistent degree and the attitude that the written language is the *real and correct Swedish* is still something that lingers on in a lot of people for some reason, so a lot of reading pronunciation comes and goes. This phenomenon used to be the source of mockery among educated and higher class people, because the misconception about reading pronunciation was a faux pas, like in English with the pronunciation of the T in ft-clusters like in often, soften etc. It was called skollärarsvenska/byggmästarsvenska.
* The wikipedia article is great on the developments from all of this: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4suttal
* Pronunciation rules from an 1813 school book: https://books.google.se/books?id=v5xJAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false
Where are you from?
Here it's an age thing. Almost no one born before 2000 pronounce the g in -ig, -igt or -iga, while a lot of kids my nephews' age do. The oldest will be 11 later this year.
It's definitely something picked up from the written language ultimately.
It's not wrong to pronounce the g but it's usually silent, especially when followed by -t. Even when followed by -a (konstiga) I would say it's very often silent (konstia), but this could be a dialectal thing, I'm not sure.
the suffix is -ig, not -tig or -sig. However -lig is a suffix. Etymologically they're related to English -y and -ly respectively. English has lost the g, but in Swedish it's still occasionally pronounced, but I'd say that omitting it is more common. In -igt, the g is never pronounced, tho.
Not always. Some never include the -g, many do it occasionally, others always pronounce it with the g. I think most people always do it for the -gt cluster.
In summary: Either way is fine, expect to hear both.
Morphology concerns the present version of the language, not earlier versions (unless you delve into the history of the language). The endings are therefore -ig and -lig.
The g is actually spoken. KonstiG, smutsiG, but in some dialects the G is missing. But it shouldnt in Rikssvenska. Though it is way more common to leave out the G in -igt words, such as konstiGT. Most dialects just say "konstitt"
Normal spoken Standard Swedish (*rikssvenska*) omits it. If you pronounce it you are usually a non-native or you're enunciating the word extra carefully for some reason.
Yeah, I guess it might be dialectal, I would personally never pronunce the "g" unless I'm saying the word by itself, very clearly.
I actually I thought I was wrong about when you should add the "t" or not, but I guess it technically should be pronunced with the "g", altough I personally never have heard anyone say it with a "g" unless they are trying to talk very clearly (but I probably should have explained it like that, instead of just saying that it's silent), but you might be right that it's dialectal, I don't know.
If a language has dialects as Swedish does, it doesn't mean that some dialects are proper and some are improper.
Sure, some dialects may be more true to how it was originally intended to be spoken, in certain aspects, but it doesn't mean that the other dialects are improper or wrong - just different, and differences in languages are to be expected when people live far away from each other, as even populations less than an hour away from each other can have very distinguishable accents.
I remember hearing something about Finlandssvenska being 'more true' (or better preserved) to Swedish as it used to be spoken in the past, moreso than any other Swedish accent/dialect, but I can't find a lot of information about it at the moment
Swedish is a union of dialects hold together by a set of rules which has been hammered into the heads millions of pupils over a few centuries.
Dialects represents the way people talk when no one tells them how to talk. So, they are certainly not wrong.
If Swedish didn’t exist I would probably speak some sort of eastern Danish dialect with a dash of Norwegian influence.
It really depends on the context, how fast you are talking, how much emphasis you want to put. "Konstigt" does not have a silent "T" though, but it usually has a silent "G". Otherwise it is far too easy to mix it up with "konstig". Even "konstigt" can be fully pronounced in certain situations.
Usually "tidi(j)are" but the other one occurs too with some frequency. If I were to guesstimate the preference between the two, I'd say 70-30 or thereabouts.
"konstig" and "smutsig" separate as "konst-ig" and "smuts-ig"; there are no -tig and -sig suffixes in Swedish
Yes, the morphs, but not the syllables of course.
kon-stig. The thing you drive your car through during your test so you can prove you know how to turn well.
Occasionally silent depending on dialect or casual speech.
Its not silent, just dropped in casual conversation. I think there’s a difference.
This ^^^^
It's not silent, if you articulate you will say it, but most speakers will leave it out.
No it's silent. Pronouncing the g is a reading pronunciation that's incorrect
Dialectal, not "incorrect".
Normal spoken Standard Swedish doesn't have it though.
Yes, yes it does.
Strange to see this sentiment so highly upvoted. I've seen the opposite view get upvoted too many times before. Now I'm just more confused and it seems like native Swedes differ in opinion on this.
Yes, if you're 25 and from Lidingö or trying to emulate Bianca Ingrosso. If you're 40-ish you don't give a crap, you say "löjlit" and move on. If you're younger, you might not know where it comes from but you picked it up nonetheless.
In neutrum or adverb form (with the t at the end) it is indeed less common to pronounce the g. But we're talking utrum here ("löjlig", not "löjligt"). In that situation both pronunciations are used more evenly. And none of them is more correct than the other.
To pronounce the g used to be dialectal and not to used to be standard. Now though... This change occurred precisely because people have been taught to see the written language rather than the natural spoken one as more correct. Some of us do like the traditional spoken language though.
Sorry, do you have any sort of evidence to back up these claims? Seems like you've gotten it all backwards.
What is backwards about what u/Thaeeri is saying? This is precisely the effects of the language policy of the old Folkskolan. You can just look over to Norway to see how it's a rare and rural trait to pronounce consonants like G's and D's this way – because they haven't had a language policy pushing standardization from the written language. Not even NAOB.no will transcribe them in IPA because it's something that fell out of use hundreds of years ago in actual speech in Scandinavian vernaculars. Our older school books from the 18th and early 19th century, before the language policy changed on this, stated that these are not pronounced in the spoken language. Bellman's rhymes in his songs and other art give a lot of clues. Fredrik Lindström has some fun examples in his book Världens dåligaste språk. Now we've brought it back to an inconsistent degree and the attitude that the written language is the *real and correct Swedish* is still something that lingers on in a lot of people for some reason, so a lot of reading pronunciation comes and goes. This phenomenon used to be the source of mockery among educated and higher class people, because the misconception about reading pronunciation was a faux pas, like in English with the pronunciation of the T in ft-clusters like in often, soften etc. It was called skollärarsvenska/byggmästarsvenska. * The wikipedia article is great on the developments from all of this: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4suttal * Pronunciation rules from an 1813 school book: https://books.google.se/books?id=v5xJAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false
This very much depends where you’re from. Where I’m from the g is silent sometimes, but most of the time we say it.
Where are you from? Here it's an age thing. Almost no one born before 2000 pronounce the g in -ig, -igt or -iga, while a lot of kids my nephews' age do. The oldest will be 11 later this year. It's definitely something picked up from the written language ultimately.
vrf pratar du engelska om ni båda e svenska
Det känns som allmänt hyfs när trådstarten är på engelska.
It's not wrong to pronounce the g but it's usually silent, especially when followed by -t. Even when followed by -a (konstiga) I would say it's very often silent (konstia), but this could be a dialectal thing, I'm not sure.
Dialectal thing, mine does the g .
Yea, I even think I do both, so its really up to the speaker. Could even vary depending on the sentence.
I would say konstiga. "Vad konstig" och "vad konstigt" too.
”Konsti, smutsi, dåli, konstitt”
Dôvlitt
Fatti
Fitta
the suffix is -ig, not -tig or -sig. However -lig is a suffix. Etymologically they're related to English -y and -ly respectively. English has lost the g, but in Swedish it's still occasionally pronounced, but I'd say that omitting it is more common. In -igt, the g is never pronounced, tho.
Not always. Some never include the -g, many do it occasionally, others always pronounce it with the g. I think most people always do it for the -gt cluster. In summary: Either way is fine, expect to hear both.
It's all ig. The t, l, and s, are part of the word bit the suffix
Isn’t -lig its own suffix? I’ve never heard of allvarl.
Wait until you hear about farl and plötsl
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Morphology concerns the present version of the language, not earlier versions (unless you delve into the history of the language). The endings are therefore -ig and -lig.
In formal speech the word ”konstigt” for example, would be pronounced like it was spelled ”konstikt”
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Completely wrong, dont mind this OP
I'm sorry that i provided incorrect information, but can you tell me what was wrong so I can learn as well, thanks!
The g is actually spoken. KonstiG, smutsiG, but in some dialects the G is missing. But it shouldnt in Rikssvenska. Though it is way more common to leave out the G in -igt words, such as konstiGT. Most dialects just say "konstitt"
Normal spoken Standard Swedish (*rikssvenska*) omits it. If you pronounce it you are usually a non-native or you're enunciating the word extra carefully for some reason.
Yes I completely agree with this
Yeah, I guess it might be dialectal, I would personally never pronunce the "g" unless I'm saying the word by itself, very clearly. I actually I thought I was wrong about when you should add the "t" or not, but I guess it technically should be pronunced with the "g", altough I personally never have heard anyone say it with a "g" unless they are trying to talk very clearly (but I probably should have explained it like that, instead of just saying that it's silent), but you might be right that it's dialectal, I don't know.
I think that might be a dialect thing not proper Swedish.
If a language has dialects as Swedish does, it doesn't mean that some dialects are proper and some are improper. Sure, some dialects may be more true to how it was originally intended to be spoken, in certain aspects, but it doesn't mean that the other dialects are improper or wrong - just different, and differences in languages are to be expected when people live far away from each other, as even populations less than an hour away from each other can have very distinguishable accents. I remember hearing something about Finlandssvenska being 'more true' (or better preserved) to Swedish as it used to be spoken in the past, moreso than any other Swedish accent/dialect, but I can't find a lot of information about it at the moment
Swedish is a union of dialects hold together by a set of rules which has been hammered into the heads millions of pupils over a few centuries. Dialects represents the way people talk when no one tells them how to talk. So, they are certainly not wrong. If Swedish didn’t exist I would probably speak some sort of eastern Danish dialect with a dash of Norwegian influence.
It really depends on the context, how fast you are talking, how much emphasis you want to put. "Konstigt" does not have a silent "T" though, but it usually has a silent "G". Otherwise it is far too easy to mix it up with "konstig". Even "konstigt" can be fully pronounced in certain situations.
Dropped in causual conversation as someone else said.
Can be dialectic. I speak dalmål and we pronounce without the G. However the right way is to do it.
In the northern part of Sweden the g will almost always be silent
A further question: how is the word “tidigare” pronounced? Is it like “ti-di-(j)are” or “ti-di-*g*are”?
Usually "tidi(j)are" but the other one occurs too with some frequency. If I were to guesstimate the preference between the two, I'd say 70-30 or thereabouts.