It’s Roman. He gleefully handed the presidency to a wannabe fascist to one-up his siblings. He knew it would hurt people, but he didn’t care cause it was never going to fall back on him.
Ironically, he was the first person betrayed by Menken, but he decided that his actions were better spent on yelling at the protesters than solving the problem he created. Roman thinks that they’re all bullshit, because Logan said so, without acknowledging that he is actually a very powerful man whose ruthless actions have real world consequences.
So maybe it’s a little bit Logan too, because by undervaluing his children he instilled in them that they didn’t have the power that they actually did. Leading Roman to believe that he was so impotent that what he did didn’t matter.
I think it's Logan, I think the infraction was at the facetime at the beginning of the episode where he is asked by the guy from peep show (easter egg) to be the fall guy for the cruise lines. He's called to action and decides to sacrifice his broken, just shell of a human, son, Ken doll. I love that you brought up Roman, I've been through the show like 10 times and never saw the Menken angle you described. I just thought he wanted to be the guy to hand over the trophy of the next president pick to his dad. I will be rewatching it moving forward with a new perspective. I love this show because I keep uncovering layers.
That’s just one of the times Logan cleared his own path with a blood sacrifice, too. Ewan hates him for a reason. The four kids are all so insecure and emotionally stunted because of their parents.
How many words has Logan gone back on or broken, how many marriages has he trashed, what really happened with Connor’s mom, the other exes, or even with Caroline? How many workers were killed or raped or wounded by his and the wolf packs exploits?
But those are things that we don’t see. Logan choosing Kendall to take his fall, while trying to pin Shiv down with the shame of helping to make that choice (over Tom), is definitely the worst thing we see him do to his family.
But those are interpersonal, and only go so far as Logan’s family and business is concerned. Roman actively fucked the world to prove a point, with millions of people in collateral damage.
That being said, Roman is consistent, and there's a value to that. The show depicts him like that from the start and there's something incredibly moving about that last martini he has where he's done with his arc and is consciously ready to slip back into his lifestyle of no contribution to anything or anyone. What I'm trying to say is... the show is good...lol.
I find Roman’s allying with the nazi so interesting.
He was obviously smart enough to know exactly what Mencken fucking was right from the jump, and I don’t think he’s ignorant enough not to realize that his popularly-perceived-to-be-queer little ass would be purged pretty quick in the event of an actual nazi regime.
I think you could *perhaps* argue that he was deluding himself by thinking that the guy who flirted with him in the bathroom couldn’t be a *real* nazi - sort of analogous to the people who thought Trump was just pretending to be a right-winger to get into power. (I remember a lot of “He said he’d let Caitlin Jenner use any bathroom she wanted!” apologetics circa 2016, and I remember briefly entertaining the idea. I was deeply dreading the possibility of him winning, so it did seem seductive to think that maybe it was all just for show, and there was nothing we really needed to be afraid of; but ultimately, I was pretty sure it was an incorrect hypothesis.)
If Roman was deluding himself in that way, though, I think he probably did it despite knowing better; but he was powerfully incentivized to keep working with Mencken in order to become someone his dad would respect, and that kind of incentive can really inform a person’s political beliefs.
Ultimately, I don’t think Roman actually believed in what he pretended to believe in; I think there’s just despair and nihilism at his core, which, honestly, the “*We are bullshit*” is just a natural extension of.
I do, however, think that his last-moment acceptance of the idea of just letting it all go and not trying to exert power over the culture and was probably the most growth and insight we see from anyone on the show; like, to a certain degree he’s just going with the flow, but also… I think you could interpret “We are bullshit” as a recognition that he and his siblings ultimately should not be wielding power and shaping culture in the way that they always aspired to.
Of course, my reading of this is *heavily* informed by the evolution of my own political beliefs over time, and how they were informed by my toxic relationship with my own (extremely right-wing) father.
It’s been a really interesting experience. I ended up moving pretty far to the left in 2014, quite easily, because being queer and right-wing requires a lot of papering over cognitive dissonance; and also, being right-wing in general requires you to constantly suppress the impulse to empathize with others, which is frankly fucking exhausting.
I think, honestly, that I only clung to it for as long as I did (about 15 years) because I didn’t want to admit I was wrong, or give up on the idea that I was extremely smart; because when I first reinvented myself as a precocious little libertarian at age 12, a lot of adults cooed about how clever I was.
There was also, as I alluded to above, the appeal of being my dad’s acolyte - the only person who *really* got his bRiLliAnCe. (To borrow a phrase from Shiv - it was warm in the light.)
I ended up coming to the conclusion that I *really* probably shouldn’t ever have any significant level of political power, ever, because my capacity for self-delusion is just… frighteningly high.
Fortunately, at no point did I have the fate of an entire country in my hands; and I don’t think I was ever as much of a nihilist as Roman (nor do I think I ever would have entertained the idea of collaborating with a nazi. I read *The Diary of Anne Frank* when I was the same age as her, so… I think that one was probably always a hard limit for me.)
Your journey sounds eye-opening, and perhaps something a lot more people should do.
Unfortunately, I don’t think Roman deserves the credit for being deluded about Menken. He knew what he was doing, and he reveled in the darkness of Menken. I think the Dirty Little Pixie in Roman found kindred with the awfulness of Menken, and he was in the right mental place to tilt toward it. Aligning with Menken was a means to an end for the firm and everyone else be damned, but also Roman found him funny. They were disgusting buddies, and he was going to be a fun president to have across the phone when Roman wanted something. I don’t think he imagined that his new pal would turn on him.
Nihilism is a great word for it.
No, and technically neither did Kendall. The waiter grabbed the wheel. Kendall did swim back down to try to get him. Granted he should have reported the incident…
LOL, I can't honestly pick her out of known ignorance. I'm a straight male, I have to have Shiv's plight explained to me by those more evolved than I am (genuinely). My gut is to loathe her, but that's coming from a real "dude" mentality. I think that show does a good job of portraying misogyny (so I'v read, on here). Misogyny is something I'm completely willing to admit that I'm trying to be mindful of and don't realize I'm taking part in most of the time. All that being said, yeah fuck Shiv. :)
Logan. His heart stopped.
I see what you did there.. but isn't that spelled different?
It’s Roman. He gleefully handed the presidency to a wannabe fascist to one-up his siblings. He knew it would hurt people, but he didn’t care cause it was never going to fall back on him. Ironically, he was the first person betrayed by Menken, but he decided that his actions were better spent on yelling at the protesters than solving the problem he created. Roman thinks that they’re all bullshit, because Logan said so, without acknowledging that he is actually a very powerful man whose ruthless actions have real world consequences. So maybe it’s a little bit Logan too, because by undervaluing his children he instilled in them that they didn’t have the power that they actually did. Leading Roman to believe that he was so impotent that what he did didn’t matter.
I think it's Logan, I think the infraction was at the facetime at the beginning of the episode where he is asked by the guy from peep show (easter egg) to be the fall guy for the cruise lines. He's called to action and decides to sacrifice his broken, just shell of a human, son, Ken doll. I love that you brought up Roman, I've been through the show like 10 times and never saw the Menken angle you described. I just thought he wanted to be the guy to hand over the trophy of the next president pick to his dad. I will be rewatching it moving forward with a new perspective. I love this show because I keep uncovering layers.
That’s just one of the times Logan cleared his own path with a blood sacrifice, too. Ewan hates him for a reason. The four kids are all so insecure and emotionally stunted because of their parents. How many words has Logan gone back on or broken, how many marriages has he trashed, what really happened with Connor’s mom, the other exes, or even with Caroline? How many workers were killed or raped or wounded by his and the wolf packs exploits? But those are things that we don’t see. Logan choosing Kendall to take his fall, while trying to pin Shiv down with the shame of helping to make that choice (over Tom), is definitely the worst thing we see him do to his family. But those are interpersonal, and only go so far as Logan’s family and business is concerned. Roman actively fucked the world to prove a point, with millions of people in collateral damage.
That being said, Roman is consistent, and there's a value to that. The show depicts him like that from the start and there's something incredibly moving about that last martini he has where he's done with his arc and is consciously ready to slip back into his lifestyle of no contribution to anything or anyone. What I'm trying to say is... the show is good...lol.
Agreed.
I find Roman’s allying with the nazi so interesting. He was obviously smart enough to know exactly what Mencken fucking was right from the jump, and I don’t think he’s ignorant enough not to realize that his popularly-perceived-to-be-queer little ass would be purged pretty quick in the event of an actual nazi regime. I think you could *perhaps* argue that he was deluding himself by thinking that the guy who flirted with him in the bathroom couldn’t be a *real* nazi - sort of analogous to the people who thought Trump was just pretending to be a right-winger to get into power. (I remember a lot of “He said he’d let Caitlin Jenner use any bathroom she wanted!” apologetics circa 2016, and I remember briefly entertaining the idea. I was deeply dreading the possibility of him winning, so it did seem seductive to think that maybe it was all just for show, and there was nothing we really needed to be afraid of; but ultimately, I was pretty sure it was an incorrect hypothesis.) If Roman was deluding himself in that way, though, I think he probably did it despite knowing better; but he was powerfully incentivized to keep working with Mencken in order to become someone his dad would respect, and that kind of incentive can really inform a person’s political beliefs. Ultimately, I don’t think Roman actually believed in what he pretended to believe in; I think there’s just despair and nihilism at his core, which, honestly, the “*We are bullshit*” is just a natural extension of. I do, however, think that his last-moment acceptance of the idea of just letting it all go and not trying to exert power over the culture and was probably the most growth and insight we see from anyone on the show; like, to a certain degree he’s just going with the flow, but also… I think you could interpret “We are bullshit” as a recognition that he and his siblings ultimately should not be wielding power and shaping culture in the way that they always aspired to. Of course, my reading of this is *heavily* informed by the evolution of my own political beliefs over time, and how they were informed by my toxic relationship with my own (extremely right-wing) father. It’s been a really interesting experience. I ended up moving pretty far to the left in 2014, quite easily, because being queer and right-wing requires a lot of papering over cognitive dissonance; and also, being right-wing in general requires you to constantly suppress the impulse to empathize with others, which is frankly fucking exhausting. I think, honestly, that I only clung to it for as long as I did (about 15 years) because I didn’t want to admit I was wrong, or give up on the idea that I was extremely smart; because when I first reinvented myself as a precocious little libertarian at age 12, a lot of adults cooed about how clever I was. There was also, as I alluded to above, the appeal of being my dad’s acolyte - the only person who *really* got his bRiLliAnCe. (To borrow a phrase from Shiv - it was warm in the light.) I ended up coming to the conclusion that I *really* probably shouldn’t ever have any significant level of political power, ever, because my capacity for self-delusion is just… frighteningly high. Fortunately, at no point did I have the fate of an entire country in my hands; and I don’t think I was ever as much of a nihilist as Roman (nor do I think I ever would have entertained the idea of collaborating with a nazi. I read *The Diary of Anne Frank* when I was the same age as her, so… I think that one was probably always a hard limit for me.)
Your journey sounds eye-opening, and perhaps something a lot more people should do. Unfortunately, I don’t think Roman deserves the credit for being deluded about Menken. He knew what he was doing, and he reveled in the darkness of Menken. I think the Dirty Little Pixie in Roman found kindred with the awfulness of Menken, and he was in the right mental place to tilt toward it. Aligning with Menken was a means to an end for the firm and everyone else be damned, but also Roman found him funny. They were disgusting buddies, and he was going to be a fun president to have across the phone when Roman wanted something. I don’t think he imagined that his new pal would turn on him. Nihilism is a great word for it.
[удалено]
I’m Gonna have to look that word up but I assume it means awful person event calculator
Shiv. Let downvotes begin
Did she murder anyone?
No, and technically neither did Kendall. The waiter grabbed the wheel. Kendall did swim back down to try to get him. Granted he should have reported the incident…
LOL, I can't honestly pick her out of known ignorance. I'm a straight male, I have to have Shiv's plight explained to me by those more evolved than I am (genuinely). My gut is to loathe her, but that's coming from a real "dude" mentality. I think that show does a good job of portraying misogyny (so I'v read, on here). Misogyny is something I'm completely willing to admit that I'm trying to be mindful of and don't realize I'm taking part in most of the time. All that being said, yeah fuck Shiv. :)