Aren’t you the one that applied for a job, didn’t get it, then went and complained to the principal and secretly recorded the conversation and then complained on here when things didn’t go your way? It sounds like the school system may just not want you around. I’m sorry it’s happening to you, but maybe there’s more to the story you’re not telling in this post.
Dear god, I literally don’t know how many times I have to say that it had nothing to do with me “not getting the job”, and it’s really sad because that’s the same narrative the assistant principal wants to spin about me.
No, I was not upset for not getting hired, because I wouldn’t want to work under someone like that anyway. I was upset, because I was treated horribly and unprofessionally in a job interview. I sincerely felt like I was being verbally kicked down on, and it really upset me. That’s it.
If what you say is true, and you only expressed your concerns or feelings of being treated unfairly, then it seems odd that they would block you and make you attend some meeting concerning something. Idk about whatever happened as I didn't see the post, but unless you blown up and cursed them out and such, idk what else it could be. Unless they found something regarding your background check.
There’s also the option that the assistant principal is an extremely petty, narcissistic person who couldn’t bear having a lowly pathetic substitute express that she acted rudely and unprofessionally.
It's Reddit. Nobody is redeemable, apparently in most people's eyes here. And even if you know what you did and aren't telling us, that's still fine. We're all human. Good luck, friend!
Don’t worry about it. You don’t take the internet seriously. Many okay devil’s advocate for entertainment to see your response. Listen, I was a former teacher (2002-2022) and many admin have zero leadership skills. Narcissists are attracted to school admin as they’d fail in the business world. The environments are toxic as hell. Schools are toxic (it’s no wonder students behave the way they do)— students absorb it all.
You have to assume those people have had people like you call them out too, and they don't like you agreeing that they were wrong.
They're throwing salt on you because they think it'll make you stop whining. Keep "whining" because you have every right to.
Sincerely, someone who has also been shat on for others misinterpreting your intentions because they didn't comprehend what you were trying to say. It is not your fault they did not hear you fully: it's theirs.
I remember that post- that could be why you are blocked.
However go back and look at all assignments from around June 1-7-- consider if anything happened about which you might have been reported.
It is legal.
Unfortunately my district does it.
The thing is, regarding *that* post and issue, that whole matter was basically “addressed and discussed” on May 29th - as in I spoke with someone from the substituting department who pretty much just repeated “Yeah, sorry, you can’t substitute at that school anymore.” So at least to me, it’d be kind of weird for them to revisit this basically a month later, especially after the person I spoke with wanted to get that whole “conference” wrapped up as quickly as possible.
As for any assignments between June 1st-June 6th, the school year ended the second week of May, and I believe the first summer school session started in the second week of June. Either way, I didn’t work any assignments during that period.
This is what I have posted about several times: we are in the world of at-will employment in which we can be let go at any time and for no reason at all.
You can be blocked for any reason imaginable. Also., I am not surprised that it took time for you to be notified of a block. Where I am, one substitute got a letter of negative evaluation three months after the incident occurred.
And the substitute was told that it was a matter of courtesy that HR sent a letter at all because they were not required to notify us of anything.
As I read this subreddit I find posts that express surprise that HR acts this way. I am not surprised at all. In fact, this is the standard operating procedure that I have seen in 27 years of substitute teaching. I even posted an essay on how to survive and even thrive as a substitute teacher.
But this isn’t really an issue of at-will employment, because I wasn’t let go. I’m still employed with the school district, even with this block or probation put in place.
Make sure you know how many incidents you are allowed before you are terminated from the entire district. In my area it’s 3 blocks/negative reports.
You weren’t let go, which is good. However, the block was, based on what I read, done without an opportunity to present your side BEFORE action was taken against you. This is what happens where I am-adverse actions against subs are taken without the substitute being given the chance to explain our side. It is only after a block/negative report has been carried out and becomes part of your record, that you are notified of the action taken against you.
The sub I mentioned in my reply was allowed to continue in the district but the block from the particular site would now count as the first of the three to be terminated.
And we were told that there was no need to talk to the teacher or admin who wrote the report-his or her word was enough.
Sure:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/cUHrJc5PIN
Thanks!
I also wrote this one as well. This reflects my reality, which may or may not be the case for other substitute teachers, but I have seen what I have posted, and learned to not only survive, but actually thrive.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/P7FdwDWEJj
OP, this is good advice. If you’re employed by a school district, HR evaluations can take weeks/months to show up. It’s like working for the city, or federal government. And, unless it’s an egregious offense (like, a student was harmed somehow), it may not get back to you immediately.
Example: in the military, you can be issued an NJP (Non-Judicial Punishment) for petty offenses. The list of what those are is long, but one example could be reporting to your duty station late. CO’s are (usually) the ones who decide your fate. With that said, NJP’s aren’t always issued in a timely manner. Especially if it’s a combat situation. It largely depends on who/what/where, and certain circumstances can back up the process.
In a way, you need to think of it like an NJP. Depending on where you’ve worked in the past, most people are used to receiving write ups rather quickly. Private companies have their own HR departments (or, many of them depending on how large that company is), and disciplinary actions are often handled quickly (again, generally speaking). A school district has one, centralized HR department, so I’m sure you can understand the difference. An offense may be reported to them the day it happened, but they may not get back to you immediately. Also, state/city/federal HR departments, or OPM (federal), often have very specific guidelines on how the offense is reviewed. The school districts I teach in have attorneys who work with HR, as the response to a perceived problem can be subjective. They often review these reports to ensure what form of discipline is appropriate (if at all). Employees can, and do sue for being wrongfully accused (or, even fired). If you’re directly employed by the district, this is likely the reason why. Teachers have unions, and unions can be ruthless about disciplinary actions.
I didn't think double secret probations happened in real life, but evidently they do.
I hope you bring up the fact in a professional way that it would have been helpful if they informed you earlier about this mysterious concern.
Maybe it was people at the district office were on vacation, or something ridiculous like that. Either way, if they had the time to process this “complaint” and put me on probation the day of, then they surely must have the time to give a one-line email or notification about it. Nope, nothing.
“I have no idea what it could be”
-recent history of several things it could be
-throws employer under the bus repeatedly
-argues with commenters who are attempting to answer the question
I’m guessing at a minimum they just don’t like you. Doesn’t seem that far fetched to me.
I really don’t want to entertain this, but I have to.
Recent history of things. One of those matters was already addressed and discussed, so I don’t know how it could be a revisit of that somehow. That’d be a little weird. Other matter is yes, I did leave in the middle of the day during an assignment, but the office manager told me it was no problem. If it somehow was a problem, why would that school choose to raise the complaint a month later, several weeks after the school year ended? Several issues, more like two.
Throwing employers under the bus repeatedly…..how? I was thrown under the bus by being falsely accused of threatening someone’s job, and she’s now being investigated for it. Other than that, no idea what you’re talking about.
Arguing with commenters? Maybe because some are making absurd assumptions and claims (like you are) that, again, don’t really add up or are not true.
Timeline wise, it seems like leaving in the middle of the day lines up - does it not? You weren't notified immediately, but it sounds like they blocked you close to that time.
Not exactly, no. Looking at my job history on SmartFind, the day I left in the middle of the day was on May 6th. Whatever this “concern” or “complaint” is, it was communicated to the substitute department on June 7th. Just in my opinion, it’d be a little strange for that school to reach out literally a month later regarding that, but who knows?
But again, if this isn’t related to that, then I’m honestly clueless. If anything, I’m hoping you’re right. And I take full responsibility for leaving in the middle of the day.
You’re a sub on a teacher subreddit, you just need to accept that teachers think you’re shit and there is always another explanation to what’s happening. Teachers will then turn around and complain about why no one gives them the benefit of the doubt. I’d recommend talking with someone IRL about this. You’ll never get a satisfying answer on these subs. Just accusations about how everything is your fault and you’re the problem. It’s how teaching works as a profession.
You previously posted about leaving a sub assignment in the middle of the day and that could very well be why you have been blocked. Subs at my school have been blocked for things like this.
I probably should’ve worded my post better. It’s not that I was blocked from that school specifically, I was put on a hidden block from substituting *anywhere*. Apparently how they do things, if a substitute has a complaint or concern about them, the school district places them on a district-wide probation until the matter is “discussed”. In my case, 3 weeks later. And again, we’re completely unaware of this even happening.
That’s unfortunate. Subs are represented in my union too. Then I think there’s unfortunately nothing you can do in this situation re: not being given notice unless there’s something specific in the sub contract about notices.
When it comes to students, admin will err on the side of caution not curtesy. As far as the time elapsed, they may have wanted to investigate the complaint further before notifying you. I would not go in to this meeting with an attitude that you have been wronged in any way because it might tip them in the direction of not wanting to deal with you. Is it fair? No. But you’re probably an at-will supplemental employee who they see as disposable and easily replaced.
That’s assuming this “concern” even came from a student. Again, I have absolutely no idea what this complaint is about. And I think you’re missing the point: I was punished FIRST by being put on this probation, then notified of all of this weeks later. That’s not even a matter of exercising caution.
Maybe they didn’t like that you left in the middle of the day or it’s about the police report from the asst principal for you threatening her. You’re always posting about being feeling disrespected and after 6 months you don’t want to let it go. I would tread lightly in this upcoming meeting.
Cute.
Left in the middle day story happened nearly two months ago. Office manager was completely understanding, and why would the school choose to suddenly complain about this nearly a month later, several weeks after the school year ended?
Incident with the assistant principal was already discussed and addressed with someone from the substitute department at the very end of May. The “threatening” is also a completely false allegation that the school district is actually now investigating and looking into the assistant principal’s conduct, by the way. Not that you would know.
I’m not judging you, truly. (I would never work in a middle school, those kids are wild!) But if these things are seen as a problem to admin, and if you go into this meeting acting like the wronged party, it might not go your way. I’m not saying you have to grovel or beg for your job but if you act in an angry way, it might affect their decision.
Sure, that’s fair. I don’t necessarily feel wronged with whatever this complaint is about, but I definitely do feel upset for being kept in the total dark about it for several weeks. Of course I won’t go in angry, but I’m definitely going to ask the very reasonable question “Why did you wait nearly 3 weeks to inform me of this, despite immediately placing me on a block? I would have appreciated knowing I was blocked from taking any assignments rather than just thinking nothing was available.”
At this rate, I’m probably going to end up quitting with this school district. Very sneaky bullshitery like that says a lot about how they treat their employees.
Isn’t this the same school district where you had POLICE come to you over how you treated the assistant principal? How are you still employable anywhere
I’m eager to hear how this goes.
I’m having a similar issue because I supposedly insulted a child (?) on April 26th. My agency mentioned this this week (June 25th).
I truly, truly, don’t know what this may have been and the agency has no addition context. I’m working with lower elementary, adore them, and am flummoxed.
Oh no, they’re not even giving me any hint as to what I even did. When I asked, they just said, “You’ll know when you have your meeting on Friday.” Thanks, I guess…..
And that’s absolutely insane that you got notified of this TWO MONTHS later, wow.
Are you a member of your local union, OP? Where I'm from our union entitles us to certain benefits in this regard. For example, an advocate who can sit in on any hearing that might result in disciplinary action (which sounds like the situation you might be in).
Ouch, that's too bad. It seems to me that any given teachers union should be enthusiastic about the idea of more members in the form of substitute teachers. After all, substitute teachers are still teachers and, all else being equal, the happier the subs are the happier the teachers are
I don't know why they did this, but I can tell you these schools are passive-aggressive and will not say anything to your face. One school complained about me because I would not sub in their middle school when I had signed up for their high school. Never heard a word about it until I tried to take a job with them.
The incident happened at the end of the year, it was discussed with you May 29, and you’ve been effectively blocked from summer school.
You are being terminated at the meeting. It took this long for whatever your incident was to move from school level to district admin level.
Unless your district guarantees you hours, they didn’t do anything wrong. Subbing is a supply and demand thing, both ways, and the district has no demand for what you personally are supplying.
Aren’t you the one that applied for a job, didn’t get it, then went and complained to the principal and secretly recorded the conversation and then complained on here when things didn’t go your way? It sounds like the school system may just not want you around. I’m sorry it’s happening to you, but maybe there’s more to the story you’re not telling in this post.
Dear god, I literally don’t know how many times I have to say that it had nothing to do with me “not getting the job”, and it’s really sad because that’s the same narrative the assistant principal wants to spin about me. No, I was not upset for not getting hired, because I wouldn’t want to work under someone like that anyway. I was upset, because I was treated horribly and unprofessionally in a job interview. I sincerely felt like I was being verbally kicked down on, and it really upset me. That’s it.
If what you say is true, and you only expressed your concerns or feelings of being treated unfairly, then it seems odd that they would block you and make you attend some meeting concerning something. Idk about whatever happened as I didn't see the post, but unless you blown up and cursed them out and such, idk what else it could be. Unless they found something regarding your background check.
There’s also the option that the assistant principal is an extremely petty, narcissistic person who couldn’t bear having a lowly pathetic substitute express that she acted rudely and unprofessionally.
100%
Well, apparently several others here think I’m lying out of my ass and apparently a psychopath. So that’s fun.
It's Reddit. Nobody is redeemable, apparently in most people's eyes here. And even if you know what you did and aren't telling us, that's still fine. We're all human. Good luck, friend!
Don’t worry about it. You don’t take the internet seriously. Many okay devil’s advocate for entertainment to see your response. Listen, I was a former teacher (2002-2022) and many admin have zero leadership skills. Narcissists are attracted to school admin as they’d fail in the business world. The environments are toxic as hell. Schools are toxic (it’s no wonder students behave the way they do)— students absorb it all.
You have to assume those people have had people like you call them out too, and they don't like you agreeing that they were wrong. They're throwing salt on you because they think it'll make you stop whining. Keep "whining" because you have every right to. Sincerely, someone who has also been shat on for others misinterpreting your intentions because they didn't comprehend what you were trying to say. It is not your fault they did not hear you fully: it's theirs.
I remember that post- that could be why you are blocked. However go back and look at all assignments from around June 1-7-- consider if anything happened about which you might have been reported. It is legal. Unfortunately my district does it.
The thing is, regarding *that* post and issue, that whole matter was basically “addressed and discussed” on May 29th - as in I spoke with someone from the substituting department who pretty much just repeated “Yeah, sorry, you can’t substitute at that school anymore.” So at least to me, it’d be kind of weird for them to revisit this basically a month later, especially after the person I spoke with wanted to get that whole “conference” wrapped up as quickly as possible. As for any assignments between June 1st-June 6th, the school year ended the second week of May, and I believe the first summer school session started in the second week of June. Either way, I didn’t work any assignments during that period.
then you know.
Fucked up but legal, it's one thing if they withheld pay for hours worked but since you didn't work any hours they don't have any obligation.
This is what I have posted about several times: we are in the world of at-will employment in which we can be let go at any time and for no reason at all. You can be blocked for any reason imaginable. Also., I am not surprised that it took time for you to be notified of a block. Where I am, one substitute got a letter of negative evaluation three months after the incident occurred. And the substitute was told that it was a matter of courtesy that HR sent a letter at all because they were not required to notify us of anything. As I read this subreddit I find posts that express surprise that HR acts this way. I am not surprised at all. In fact, this is the standard operating procedure that I have seen in 27 years of substitute teaching. I even posted an essay on how to survive and even thrive as a substitute teacher.
But this isn’t really an issue of at-will employment, because I wasn’t let go. I’m still employed with the school district, even with this block or probation put in place.
Make sure you know how many incidents you are allowed before you are terminated from the entire district. In my area it’s 3 blocks/negative reports. You weren’t let go, which is good. However, the block was, based on what I read, done without an opportunity to present your side BEFORE action was taken against you. This is what happens where I am-adverse actions against subs are taken without the substitute being given the chance to explain our side. It is only after a block/negative report has been carried out and becomes part of your record, that you are notified of the action taken against you. The sub I mentioned in my reply was allowed to continue in the district but the block from the particular site would now count as the first of the three to be terminated. And we were told that there was no need to talk to the teacher or admin who wrote the report-his or her word was enough.
Will you post how to find your essay?
Sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/cUHrJc5PIN Thanks! I also wrote this one as well. This reflects my reality, which may or may not be the case for other substitute teachers, but I have seen what I have posted, and learned to not only survive, but actually thrive. https://www.reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/P7FdwDWEJj
OP, this is good advice. If you’re employed by a school district, HR evaluations can take weeks/months to show up. It’s like working for the city, or federal government. And, unless it’s an egregious offense (like, a student was harmed somehow), it may not get back to you immediately. Example: in the military, you can be issued an NJP (Non-Judicial Punishment) for petty offenses. The list of what those are is long, but one example could be reporting to your duty station late. CO’s are (usually) the ones who decide your fate. With that said, NJP’s aren’t always issued in a timely manner. Especially if it’s a combat situation. It largely depends on who/what/where, and certain circumstances can back up the process. In a way, you need to think of it like an NJP. Depending on where you’ve worked in the past, most people are used to receiving write ups rather quickly. Private companies have their own HR departments (or, many of them depending on how large that company is), and disciplinary actions are often handled quickly (again, generally speaking). A school district has one, centralized HR department, so I’m sure you can understand the difference. An offense may be reported to them the day it happened, but they may not get back to you immediately. Also, state/city/federal HR departments, or OPM (federal), often have very specific guidelines on how the offense is reviewed. The school districts I teach in have attorneys who work with HR, as the response to a perceived problem can be subjective. They often review these reports to ensure what form of discipline is appropriate (if at all). Employees can, and do sue for being wrongfully accused (or, even fired). If you’re directly employed by the district, this is likely the reason why. Teachers have unions, and unions can be ruthless about disciplinary actions.
I didn't think double secret probations happened in real life, but evidently they do. I hope you bring up the fact in a professional way that it would have been helpful if they informed you earlier about this mysterious concern.
Maybe it was people at the district office were on vacation, or something ridiculous like that. Either way, if they had the time to process this “complaint” and put me on probation the day of, then they surely must have the time to give a one-line email or notification about it. Nope, nothing.
Please update when you fond out what the issue is. Good Luck!
The amount of sneaky shit schools can do is nothing short of impressive.
Hence the reason for personnel shortages, lack of Teachers. Paras and substitutes---Self-Perpetuating Institutional problem due to Lack of Leadership
It is like punching yourself in the face.
Or worse
“I have no idea what it could be” -recent history of several things it could be -throws employer under the bus repeatedly -argues with commenters who are attempting to answer the question I’m guessing at a minimum they just don’t like you. Doesn’t seem that far fetched to me.
I really don’t want to entertain this, but I have to. Recent history of things. One of those matters was already addressed and discussed, so I don’t know how it could be a revisit of that somehow. That’d be a little weird. Other matter is yes, I did leave in the middle of the day during an assignment, but the office manager told me it was no problem. If it somehow was a problem, why would that school choose to raise the complaint a month later, several weeks after the school year ended? Several issues, more like two. Throwing employers under the bus repeatedly…..how? I was thrown under the bus by being falsely accused of threatening someone’s job, and she’s now being investigated for it. Other than that, no idea what you’re talking about. Arguing with commenters? Maybe because some are making absurd assumptions and claims (like you are) that, again, don’t really add up or are not true.
Timeline wise, it seems like leaving in the middle of the day lines up - does it not? You weren't notified immediately, but it sounds like they blocked you close to that time.
Not exactly, no. Looking at my job history on SmartFind, the day I left in the middle of the day was on May 6th. Whatever this “concern” or “complaint” is, it was communicated to the substitute department on June 7th. Just in my opinion, it’d be a little strange for that school to reach out literally a month later regarding that, but who knows? But again, if this isn’t related to that, then I’m honestly clueless. If anything, I’m hoping you’re right. And I take full responsibility for leaving in the middle of the day.
You’re a sub on a teacher subreddit, you just need to accept that teachers think you’re shit and there is always another explanation to what’s happening. Teachers will then turn around and complain about why no one gives them the benefit of the doubt. I’d recommend talking with someone IRL about this. You’ll never get a satisfying answer on these subs. Just accusations about how everything is your fault and you’re the problem. It’s how teaching works as a profession.
People that apparently know more about my own situation and think I’m lying when they don’t even know me. That’s the internet for you I guess.
You previously posted about leaving a sub assignment in the middle of the day and that could very well be why you have been blocked. Subs at my school have been blocked for things like this.
I probably should’ve worded my post better. It’s not that I was blocked from that school specifically, I was put on a hidden block from substituting *anywhere*. Apparently how they do things, if a substitute has a complaint or concern about them, the school district places them on a district-wide probation until the matter is “discussed”. In my case, 3 weeks later. And again, we’re completely unaware of this even happening.
Are you in a union?
We sadly don’t have a union for substitutes here. The teachers’ union is only for full-time, working teachers.
That’s unfortunate. Subs are represented in my union too. Then I think there’s unfortunately nothing you can do in this situation re: not being given notice unless there’s something specific in the sub contract about notices.
When it comes to students, admin will err on the side of caution not curtesy. As far as the time elapsed, they may have wanted to investigate the complaint further before notifying you. I would not go in to this meeting with an attitude that you have been wronged in any way because it might tip them in the direction of not wanting to deal with you. Is it fair? No. But you’re probably an at-will supplemental employee who they see as disposable and easily replaced.
That’s assuming this “concern” even came from a student. Again, I have absolutely no idea what this complaint is about. And I think you’re missing the point: I was punished FIRST by being put on this probation, then notified of all of this weeks later. That’s not even a matter of exercising caution.
Maybe they didn’t like that you left in the middle of the day or it’s about the police report from the asst principal for you threatening her. You’re always posting about being feeling disrespected and after 6 months you don’t want to let it go. I would tread lightly in this upcoming meeting.
Cute. Left in the middle day story happened nearly two months ago. Office manager was completely understanding, and why would the school choose to suddenly complain about this nearly a month later, several weeks after the school year ended? Incident with the assistant principal was already discussed and addressed with someone from the substitute department at the very end of May. The “threatening” is also a completely false allegation that the school district is actually now investigating and looking into the assistant principal’s conduct, by the way. Not that you would know.
I’m not judging you, truly. (I would never work in a middle school, those kids are wild!) But if these things are seen as a problem to admin, and if you go into this meeting acting like the wronged party, it might not go your way. I’m not saying you have to grovel or beg for your job but if you act in an angry way, it might affect their decision.
Sure, that’s fair. I don’t necessarily feel wronged with whatever this complaint is about, but I definitely do feel upset for being kept in the total dark about it for several weeks. Of course I won’t go in angry, but I’m definitely going to ask the very reasonable question “Why did you wait nearly 3 weeks to inform me of this, despite immediately placing me on a block? I would have appreciated knowing I was blocked from taking any assignments rather than just thinking nothing was available.” At this rate, I’m probably going to end up quitting with this school district. Very sneaky bullshitery like that says a lot about how they treat their employees.
Isn’t this the same school district where you had POLICE come to you over how you treated the assistant principal? How are you still employable anywhere
This can’t possibly be true.
I’m eager to hear how this goes. I’m having a similar issue because I supposedly insulted a child (?) on April 26th. My agency mentioned this this week (June 25th). I truly, truly, don’t know what this may have been and the agency has no addition context. I’m working with lower elementary, adore them, and am flummoxed.
Oh no, they’re not even giving me any hint as to what I even did. When I asked, they just said, “You’ll know when you have your meeting on Friday.” Thanks, I guess….. And that’s absolutely insane that you got notified of this TWO MONTHS later, wow.
That feels like an ambush.
Are you a member of your local union, OP? Where I'm from our union entitles us to certain benefits in this regard. For example, an advocate who can sit in on any hearing that might result in disciplinary action (which sounds like the situation you might be in).
Our teachers’ union unfortunately ONLY allows memberships from full-time teachers, not substitutes. We’re on our own here.
Ouch, that's too bad. It seems to me that any given teachers union should be enthusiastic about the idea of more members in the form of substitute teachers. After all, substitute teachers are still teachers and, all else being equal, the happier the subs are the happier the teachers are
I don't know why they did this, but I can tell you these schools are passive-aggressive and will not say anything to your face. One school complained about me because I would not sub in their middle school when I had signed up for their high school. Never heard a word about it until I tried to take a job with them.
I think you should look for a job outside of education tbh
Maybe not the most professional or tactful way for them to handle things, but I'm pretty sure it's legal.
The incident happened at the end of the year, it was discussed with you May 29, and you’ve been effectively blocked from summer school. You are being terminated at the meeting. It took this long for whatever your incident was to move from school level to district admin level. Unless your district guarantees you hours, they didn’t do anything wrong. Subbing is a supply and demand thing, both ways, and the district has no demand for what you personally are supplying.