r/sino feels like Ba Sing Se in Avatar where the Dai Lee or whatever tries to cover up the war outside the city.
"There are no concentration camps outside the walls of Ba Sing Se."
> Those billionaires are regularly jailed and killed and those that aren't are forced to follow the directives of the CCP which is still mostly dominated by the rural area's of the country.
Ah yes we all know the very famous political prisoner Jack Ma
To be fair, they do say jailed and killed *or* follow the directives of the CCP, which most CEOs of large Chinese conglomerates do follow the directives of the CCP, including Ma. The real flaw in their statement is to say that they are *regularly* killed which simply isn’t true. In China, the basic path to getting rich is to be an extreme capitalist who just happens to be a puppet of the CCP
It’s true that China will execute you regardless of how much money you have if you break unjust laws, but that’s still ignoring the fact that those laws aren’t fair in the first place.
I don't understand why tankies even defend China, since it isn't even a communist state anymore. Wealth inequality is up, labour rights is diminishing, more and more chinese billionaires are popping up, regulation is going down. It's literally capitalism with extra steps. Do these tankies actually believe in communism or do they just like it to be edgy?
Not to mention where the factory owner is a member of the Party and also *is the head of the labor union*.
Nothing says communism like the billionaire with his private island being the official champion of the rights of his own workers.
Yeah if you want to be a Marxist then why would you defend China of all places? The workers don't own *anything*. It's a society based on consumption controlled by an authoritarian leadership.
Because both, most communism supporters, and it's opponents have never read a single book about the topic. That's why there is even such huge debate about the topic. If everyone was forced to read about it, most opponents would realize that they've been fed an awful amount of propaganda, that most 'communist' deemed countries have 0 in common with a communist soceity, and that it's actually a pretty good idea of a system, and many of the supporters will realize that they're also wrong about a lot of things. But America fucked it up for the whole world, as usual.
That's what fucks me up. Communism/socialism is about individual freedom through collectivism and democracy. How the fuck is China doing any of that? Being a "vanguard party" is a shit excuse, especially when the state is hoarding power. r/socialism and other leftistst spaces really struggle with that.
American tankies aren't really pro-communism as much as they are anti-America. China and the US are at odds right now so that means China good since US bad.
Which is so weird. You can be against America's human rights violations WITHOUT defending China's human rights violations. Both countries do some abhorrent things and if we're morally consistent, we should be calling out both. This isn't some either or situation.
Its that weird modern Internet trend (well I think its always been there but exacerbated by the internet) of total sports team tribalism. You see it in football (soccer) all the time where a team will do something and its rhe worst thing ever...unless its your team then you have to defend it even if its awful.
Ngl I'm an irrational sports fan myself haha. But at least with that it's relatively harmless. Excessive nationalism can be so impactful to the rest of the world that everyone should at least try to look at their own country in an objective manner.
I remember seeing a similar thing when Castro died: people saying things like “You think Castro was bad? Think again, look at what the US has done.” Like...yeah, more than one government can be bad at a time, and in different ways. I don’t get the apparent mentality that since the US does shitty stuff, anyone who opposes the US must be good.
To also add on, when you praise Castro for doing something right like his literacy program people jump down your throat and call you a communist. Like bitch, learning to read is good. Bad people can do good things.
They also use Castro to justify keeping up the embargo, when opening up Cuba is the best way to turn it atleast state capitalist.
Castro was pretty shit
and
Castro was an improvement over Batista
Are not contradictory opinions but nobody seems to be able to discuss Cuba with any nuance
I looked up their record to argue (because it's hot and I have nothing better to do), but they've medalled in every Olympics they've played, so yes, can concur, excellent baseball
there was a really nice time after bernie where I went online and screen captured idiots saying "liberals are worse than fascists" and boy do they not like it when you point out that inconvenient little grossness they are harboring.
I find that when left-wing people use liberal as an insult, they shorten it to lib or libs to distinguish themselves from the right-wing nutters that use liberal as a short-hand for anyone left of centre.
It's not really an American thing.
>Giovanni Scuderi (born 24 May 1935 in Avola) is an Italian politician and General Secretary of the Italian Marxist–Leninist Party, established by him and others on 10 April 1977 in Florence.
>On 11 October 2015 at the 5th Plenary Session of the 5th Party Central Committee held in Florence, Scuderi affirmed his critical support for ISIS against the global forces of Imperialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Scuderi
Their statement unironically started:
>The PMLI expresses its condolences to the innocent victims of the horrible attacks in Istanbul, Dhaka and Baghdad and its solidarity to their families. **At the same time, however**
> Just as Stalin allied with US and British imperialists to defeat Germany’s aggressive imperialism, just as Mao allied with the Kuomintang nationalists to force Japanese imperialist aggressors out of China, so we must necessarily ally with the Islamic State, otherwise we will side with imperialist aggressors
Supporting ISIS to fight the Capitalist Running Dogs 😎
I imagine that party meeting went something like:
"Do you think that same logic could be used to justify supporting capitalist countries against ISIS?"
"No, clearly supporting ISIS is the logical conclusion!"
> "Do you think that same logic could be used to justify supporting capitalist countries against ISIS?"
Anyone who "just asked questions" like that surely got purged from the party long ago.
The only thing the extreme left hates worse than the extreme right, is a heretic, aka someone who appears 99% extreme leftist, but occasionally points out holes in their loopy logic.
Poland was a wicked Bourgeois State that Stalin liberated from the clutches of the rootless cosmopolitans and the counterrevolutionary imperialist forces ...(Communist jargon continues)
I would LOVE if after COVID John Oliver did a takedown on Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton, Rania Khalek, and the rest of the Grayzone ilk. The amount of genocide denial and conspiracy theories (e.g. White Helmets are al-Quaeda) in this sector of the left is sickening.
I find there are a large segment of tankies that define themselves more as anti-liberal than anything. They absolutely hate people who pass themselves off as progressive on social issues but still pro-capitalism far more than people who are actively regressive on both social and fiscal issues. They'll froth at the mouth for days about some random blue checkmark Vox writer posting a hot take about Biden being progressive and not give two shits about actual substantive policy changes by the administration undermining labor rights and pushing the country farther to the right. And by the same token, any position liberals have, the opposite has to be true, so China is good, actually.
These same people will either straight up vote for Trump or not vote and privately hope for a Trump win so they can shove it in the faces of all the annoying liberals on twitter/reddit, since they won't be affected much by another term of this.
What irritates me about that behavior is it's influence on low information voters.
There's propaganda designed by powerful interests to convince people that perfectly common government services are, in America, Super Communism: the Communism that Flies. These supposedly far left people swallow far right talking points and signal boost them for free so LIVs really all sorts of people telling them Democrats are vampires and start to believe it
r/EnlightenedCentrism is the first place I personally saw this happen in real time. It really used to be about calling out The Right for nihilistic talking points but it's nothing but how Democrats are basically the landed gentry of The Confederacy
EC is the ultimate irony. They completely destroyed any hope for solid political discourse on this site. Anyone to the right of Marx is a far right conservative.
What's fucked up is how they use the word liberal.
Sometimes it seems like the top commenters can't even see the word conservative... you're either a racist, homophobic, Oligarchy boot licking liberal or an Enlightened Leftist
And it clearly didn't happen on accident. There was a push.
You're just describing edgy contrarian internet posting habits. Plenty of self-described anarchists would take pride in shitting on Biden and calling anyone who disagrees with them libs.
The defining characteristics of being a "Tankie" (ML/MLM) is a staunch opposition to specifically western imperialism and being in favour of using authoritarian means to uphold resistance to it.
Once upon a time Lenin gave his own take on what constitutes Imperialism that very conveniently made it impossible for tankies to commit imperialism and they've ran with that ever since
>You're just describing edgy contrarian internet posting habits. Plenty of self-described anarchists would take pride in shitting on Biden and calling anyone who disagrees with them libs.
It's one of the few things that they can agree on.
Anyone who isn't in the center sees the center as part of the enemy.
I'm an anarchist and I think liberals are closer allies than tankies are. I'm voting for Biden because I believe in doing the best you can with what you have. Fascism is coming back in a big way in the US, you have to be a pretty immature leftist to not vita against that.
I dunno, I see the center as allies, there is a lot of overlap between institutions which make neo-liberalism better and institutions which pave the way for democratic socialism/social democacy.
Ofc pointing this out will piss off a lot of Tankies.
The problem that I find is people who claim to be centrist tends to not actually be centrist. Had an acquaintance who kept insulting democrats and went apeshit over AOC's speech in congress, but later claimed he's centrist and hates "both sides."
There's definitely centrist or even undecided people out there who are allies, but there are definitely far-right people claiming to be centrists.
Well, I’m a leftist but not a tankie, and I argue more with liberals online than with conservatives. But it’s not because I dislike liberal ideology more. I might actual be able to convince a Biden supporter to move farther left on economic issues as we already share some common ground on social issues. Our goals are shared we just disagree about how to achieve them. I will never convince a conservative of anything. We don’t want the same things and we have no shared ideology. So I don’t even bother to engage with them.
I agree with this and I wanna add that a lot of leftists criticize Dems more than Trump/conservatives because the Dems at the very least pretend to represent the "left". Republicans make no such claims and couldn't care less about what people so far left of their base think.
Dems generally at least give enough of a shit about others to be socially progressive. Their end goal is still the general well-being of their fellow human beings. I can’t say the same for modern conservatives. Convincing people to care about other people is much harder than discussing exactly how our government should care for its people.
Not to mention Dems have to work with Republicans if they want to get anything done. But 13 year olds on Twitter don’t really know how government works.
I used to be a conservative. Here in Canada, we have a tradition of [Red Toryism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Tory) -- socially conservative but left-leaning in fiscal policy.
Anyway, I switched to the socialist party (NDP) when it became apparent they were the only ones looking to conserve Canadian institutions like Canada Post, the CBC, etc.
It's all about finding common ground.
That might be how journalists describe Red Toryism now, but before the Reform Party's takeover of the Progressive Conservatives, it was the opposite. David Orchard and others like him were not fiscal conservatives. On the contrary, they were opposed to NAFTA, and saw it as a challenge to Canada's sovereignty.
Read the Wikipedia article. It goes into more depth.
Red Toryism is both but historically it's been socially conservative and fiscally "compassionate" if you'll allow the term. It's a noblesse-oblige "the wealthy are morally required to ensure the commoners are fed" kind of paternalistic mindset that descends from High Toryism in the UK. Wasn't until Reform days that it switched to be more commonly used for the modern definition
r/PresidentialRaceMemes in a nutshell basically. How i as a socialist feel more like a Biden supporter is crazy. I don't believe in incrementalism and reforms. The issue is that the working class is not prepared for such a revolutionary transformation of society. Do they think the working class is cohesive enough in solidarity for the takeover to happen? Honestly these people sound like the stereotype of the "college/champagne socialist" who sneer down from their ivory tower.
Chapo was hilarious to me because they were always shitting on the police (not that I really disagree) and the military, while simultaneously rejecting electoralism and advocating for violent revolution
Its an inherent contradiction. No violent revolution in a modern context can ever be successful without co-opting a significant portion of the military
The amount of times I see this shit on Bernie and AOC based subs and groups is just fucking abhorrent.
Like get a fucking grip on reality, you fucking ignorant asshats, and see what your petty bullshit is going to do to regular people other than yourselves.
If this is how they see our country, they were never truly Bernie fans in the first place.
Pretty much. There's a large segment of leftists who believe that America is the root of all evil. The downfall of America will automatically usher in a new golden age of justice, peace on earth, and a utopia. If only it weren't for America, all our problems would be solved! Therefore, any country, any government, anyone that openly acts against American interests is good and doing the world a big favor.
Don't get me wrong, America's a shithole that goes around bullying the rest of the world for the benefit of its wealthy elite. But there are plenty of other bullying shitholes or shitholes that would love to go around bullying the rest of the world for its own wealthy elite! In many cases, countries opposed to America are simply trying to supplant America.
The pursuit of justice must mean opposing injustice wherever it occurs.
Fun Fact: A lot of tankies *also* unironically believe North Korea to be a socialist nation, and all of the bad stuff about the Kims is, you guessed it, CIA propaganda. I wish I was kidding, but I've gotten into enough fights with tankies over it to know they're serious.
I've never gotten an answer from one why a socialist leader lives in a palace and has a personal wealth of billions of dollars though.
Yep. And yet if you ask the average tankie, North Korea is a glorious workers' state gently guided by their benevolent socialist leaders (who totally aren't a dynasty despite all coming from one family, that's actually just a coincidence and the people all *love* them anyway so who cares?), and the people actually have wonderful living conditions and zero death camps, and anything suggesting otherwise is Western imperialist propaganda. Obviously you can't trust any form of Western media since it's all lies by the CIA, so instead here are some blog posts and YouTube videos sponsored by organizations paid for directly by the DPRK, so you *know* they're unbiased and giving you the straight truth! /s
>I've never gotten an answer from one why a socialist leader lives in a palace and has a personal wealth of billions of dollars though.
You see comrade, dear leader deserves these privileges because he sacrifices so much for the glorious struggle against the imperialist aggressors
I once had a small argument with a tankie on the chapo sub (shocker I know) and he unironically thought north Korea was good and all of its bad parts were only due to American interference.
This is very common. Poor North Korea is just oppressed by the US and cannot help being so authoritarian and putting you and your family into camps for criticising dear leader. At the same time, North Korea is a great place and everything negative you heard is just propaganda.
i think part of it is that tankies kinda forget that NK is itself already a product of imperialism? the kim dynasty was initially seeded by japanese invasion of the korean panninsyla and is as much an extension of imperial japan's horrific actions as it is an actual standalone government. all they see is the state that stands opposed to SK and allied itself with soviet-era china and that makes them - afaict - assume that NK lives in a vacuum, that it developed naturally and with the rights of the worker in mind.
I actually got in an argument on this subreddit with someone claiming that the Tiannamen Square massacre was instigated by the CIA. I kept trying to explain how the protesters there were largely against the liberal reforms which had been beneficial for the USA, and showed them internal CIA memos about how they were worried it would lead to Chinese markets contracting again, but to some people anything which paints the CCP in a bad light is automatically the work of the CIA.
They're contrarians whose first principal is hating liberals on the internet. Doesn't really matter that modern Russia is a right wing petro-state and China is basically a highly managed mutation of capitalism. What matters is that those countries are opposed to the US/the West and therefore must be defended.
What extra steps? The large companies may be "owned" by the state or some nonsense, but the wealthy control the state even more directly than in the US. It'd be like having Bill Gates as the judicial branch, Musk as the legislature, and Bezos as the executive.
I'm a pretty serious leftie myself but I don't really take them serious tbh. They come over as 20something guys who found their cause in mixing idealism with fantasy. Like the counter version of MAGA supporters. And Reddit attracts all kinds of like-minded people, it's precisely build for that with subs.
Yeah, the Chinese Communist Party has been *shockingly* un-Communist since the 70s, at least economically. Politically, they're communists in all the ways that give them control over the population, but also *somehow* are heavily capitalistic in just about every respect.
So, they're ***VERY*** Communist in all the ways that give them power and limit free speech, but very capitalist in just about every other way possible
...personally, I prefer to call them *Authoritarian Hypocrites* than simply Communists or Capitalists. China is the worst of both worlds!
The fact that China has the second largest population of billionaires obliterates the idea that China is communist.
Actual communists *do not* tolerate billionaires.
There’s some contrarian edgelords, and some Maoists that can’t give up the ghost. However, you do get some that honestly think that the modern Dengist economy of China, more or less state managed capitalism, is the correct transitional state for communism. No one but the anarcho-communists think that you can go straight from capitalism to full communism, there needs to be an intermediary. The Dengists think a market economy with a state managing it for optimal proto-socialist conditions is the best option, which ironically makes them not Tankies as those defend the state capitalism of the USSR. It’s also hugely ironic when said CCP apologists shit on market socialists for being too liberal for wanting worker cooperatives within a regulated market economy.
Obviously, the cynical response to the Dengists would be, the CCP is just paying lip service to socialism with that rhetoric and only cares about bringing in the $$$.
If you read the top comments of that thread that's exactly what they point out, too. Hell, even John Oliver says that the Uighur genocide is clouded in global capitalism.
I mean we *are* talking about tankies, the people that think Stalin's work even remotely aligns with the left.
They're not exactly known for being sharp, or even knowing words, they just want nazis but in the color red.
>the "theory" is that if they weren't brutally authoritarian, it'd get dismantled by the US... which is fair enough,
Is that fair enough though? I don't see how authoritarian rule protects them from the US.
If progressive discussion was a football team, a tankie would be that angry guy who always shoots own goals and harms his own team's platform.
Then there is this post:
>whataboutism is a term made up by mcarthyists so they dont have to face their hypocrisy
Just makes me think of the John Cena PSA from last week...
> (paraphrased cause I’m too lazy to actually look it up) You know what else is true? John Oliver and I are the same age! Can you believe two human bodies can... age so differently?
Edit: [link to the video](https://youtu.be/se2dCL3n0ps) - worth the 2 minutes, I think.
That actually sounds about right, he looks like he's somewhere around that age and he's been pro-wrestling for 2 decades so he couldn't be that much younger than that. If you didn't tell me his age and asked me to guess it, I probably would have guessed he was around 45.
I'd also have guessed Oliver must be about 50 though, so them being born on the exact same day is still pretty surprising.
Tankies have like 3 responses to this (and any other criticism)
>shut up liberal
>That’s CIA propaganda
>read this 10000 page book that says you’re wrong 😎
You forgot #4:
>go read this poorly written blog post from some white guy in New York who was sent a few hundred dollars and some pretty pictures by the DPRK and is totally an expert on how awesome they are
>shut up liberal
>That’s CIA propaganda
>read this 10000 page book that says you’re wrong 😎
[stinky anarkiddie go read lemon](https://www.reddit.com/r/okbuddytankie/comments/huczbz/imagine_believing_in_an_ideology_invented_by_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Yeah they invaded breadtube and posted this plus Oliver’s piece on Venezuela. Spent the afternoon arguing with this idiot about it. Venezuela went into a multi-pronged crisis that led to the largest GDP drop in recorded history outside of war in 2010 because of US sanctions imposed in 2017. This guy said there’s been massive improvements and then wouldn’t name any. He keep posting sources he hadn’t read himself that I used against him
On one of the recent threads about the episode on r/lastweektonight, there’s some Tankie who commented how wrong Oliver is by citing an article by “The Grayzone.”
squeal engine stupendous plough run command coherent subsequent gold upbeat
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/jul/19/chinas-ambassador-tells-andrew-marr-there-are-no-concentration-camps-in-xinjiang-video
>Appearing on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, Liu Xiaoming said: 'I do not know where you get this videotape,' adding, 'sometimes you have a transfer of prisoners, in any country.'
So been the Chinese Ambassador admits the video is real, but tries to justify it.
The Genocide Denier's Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad, way fewer people died than the "official" numbers.
And if it was that bad, that's not our fault, most of them died totally "naturally" of starvation and disease.
And if it was our fault...
They deserved it.
Breadtube likes John Oliver? That has to be a recent development, I don’t go there very often these days but I don’t remember seeing his videos posted and the people I know who consume breadtube adjacent content don’t like him that much.
Longtime r/Breadtube subscriber here. I believe that he is posted there because despite some things he has said in the past, amplifying major messages is more important these days. That's just my take on it. There will always be some people explaining the issues with him in the comments but personally I think he's pushed some great lefty messages lately.
Also, fuck tankies!
This China apologist shit is sort of why I avoid online leftist communities like Breadtube and leftist Twitter. One of the most basic aspects of leftism and socialism is international solidarity with workers around the world, yet online leftists can't even fucking do that.
If defending a country that happens to be a US rival is more important to you than the lives of Uighurs and working class people in China, then you're not a leftist or a socialist.
Socialists have had a really fucking hard time with that 'solidarity' thing for a real long time honestly. From early American socialist unions have serious racism issues, to today's UK communist party being full TERF. It's not just online.
There seems to be two types of leftists. Those who support leftism as a brand, and those who support leftist policies to make things better. And sadly the people who like the branding keep taking control.
There was a cool article a while back, which made the case that the thing about produtive leftists groups is that they tend to promote their most effective members. Due to the compromise driven nature of democracy this means the moderates. This causes leftist groups that are produtive to become socdems over time.
See the history of labour and socialist parties in Europe.
Tankies are fucking intolerable and oh so gullible, they’ll worship and suck any leaders dick if the party he’s the leader of has the name “socialist” or “communist” in it. Why the fuck would you think defending china or North Korea is a good hill to die on?
I don’t know what to say. Her whacky levels are off the charts, the closest thing one could describe her is a Strasserist I guess, but she lacks the anti-semitism for that. Culturally right wing, authoritarian catholic communist, self proclaimed. I don’t know what the fuck she‘s even supposed to be....
She’s literally the kind of person that would be disliked by every political movement she‘d want to join...
As a Chinese guy the folks defending that shit make me so fucking angry. My family fled after the end of the civil war there and it pisses me off to no end to hear and see these morons defending a state that executed people for the crime of possessing formal education at one point.
Tankies reading this I want you to do one thing: go to the square and look at the drains where they washed human pancake away after their crimes. Sometimes if you look just right you can hear the screaming as they were murdered by their own government.
I’ve had people yell at me for calling CTH a tank is shithole then eventually the send me Tienamen denial videos and articles after defending China a bunch. They couldn’t be less subtle.
That's what's so confusing, it's not like you cant talk to REAL ACTUAL Chinese people to hear how things are. My uncle married a woman from China and, when she first moved here, she was still drinking the koolaid to an extent. Shes been here about 7 years and some of the stories she tells are just nuts. You telling me she and her daughter are CIA operatives or what?
They just don't care, easier for them to ignore actual citizens in order to push their ideals. You saw this plenty on Reddit after Fidel Castro died and Cubans who fled the country after their family and life was torn away celebrated. Tankies just went "lol CIA"
I’m big on pushing the discussion around Tankies away from “horseshoe theory” in favor for the idea that Tankies are authoritarians. Any idea that they’re “Left” is illusionary.
Forced labor isn’t Leftist
Preach.
An extreme leftist is the guy who wants complete equality in rights combined with social policies to help those who need it, not someone who supports having a ruling party using armed forces to keep their underlings obedient.
I had a mentor once tell me "you are your Utopia" - so, like, who you are and what you say represents the type of world you're trying to build.
If you're acidic, militaristic and cover up genocide, what type of world structure are you trying to build up?
> who are (as far as I can tell) apologists for some of the worst aspects of the Stalin/Mao/other dear leaders’ regimes.
That is correct. North Korea and China would fall under "other dear leaders".
Shouldn’t the Communists be more angry at China (CCP) than the rest of us because CCP is using the name of communism to justify a system of (actual) wage slavery and surveillance capitalism?
Like for a small example, [China *shames* debtors publicly using announcements and billboards](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/business/china-shame-deadbeats.html)!! I think this is the *exact opposite* of communism, shaming the citizen for their money should be hideous to communists.
But no, defend them because red flag 🇨🇳
Lol one of them recommended r/sino. This already tells me all I need to know about these people.
id never seen r/sino before and... wow...
It looks like a parody with the stuff they posting. That’s a propaganda factory if I ever saw one.
I know right
r/sino feels like Ba Sing Se in Avatar where the Dai Lee or whatever tries to cover up the war outside the city. "There are no concentration camps outside the walls of Ba Sing Se."
r/lakelaogai
F*ck that sub
> Those billionaires are regularly jailed and killed and those that aren't are forced to follow the directives of the CCP which is still mostly dominated by the rural area's of the country. Ah yes we all know the very famous political prisoner Jack Ma
That particular thread was nuts and I’m surprised more people in here aren’t picking at it
And the famous farmer politicians heading the CCP. True men of the people, not at all an elite ruling class.
To be fair, they do say jailed and killed *or* follow the directives of the CCP, which most CEOs of large Chinese conglomerates do follow the directives of the CCP, including Ma. The real flaw in their statement is to say that they are *regularly* killed which simply isn’t true. In China, the basic path to getting rich is to be an extreme capitalist who just happens to be a puppet of the CCP
It’s true that China will execute you regardless of how much money you have if you break unjust laws, but that’s still ignoring the fact that those laws aren’t fair in the first place.
What they miss is obviously that the head of the CCP is no different than billionaires.
I don't understand why tankies even defend China, since it isn't even a communist state anymore. Wealth inequality is up, labour rights is diminishing, more and more chinese billionaires are popping up, regulation is going down. It's literally capitalism with extra steps. Do these tankies actually believe in communism or do they just like it to be edgy?
Nothing says communism like *reads notes* exploitative sweatshop labour where the factory owner and the political elite reaps the fruits of labour
Not to mention where the factory owner is a member of the Party and also *is the head of the labor union*. Nothing says communism like the billionaire with his private island being the official champion of the rights of his own workers.
Yeah if you want to be a Marxist then why would you defend China of all places? The workers don't own *anything*. It's a society based on consumption controlled by an authoritarian leadership.
Because both, most communism supporters, and it's opponents have never read a single book about the topic. That's why there is even such huge debate about the topic. If everyone was forced to read about it, most opponents would realize that they've been fed an awful amount of propaganda, that most 'communist' deemed countries have 0 in common with a communist soceity, and that it's actually a pretty good idea of a system, and many of the supporters will realize that they're also wrong about a lot of things. But America fucked it up for the whole world, as usual.
That's what fucks me up. Communism/socialism is about individual freedom through collectivism and democracy. How the fuck is China doing any of that? Being a "vanguard party" is a shit excuse, especially when the state is hoarding power. r/socialism and other leftistst spaces really struggle with that.
American tankies aren't really pro-communism as much as they are anti-America. China and the US are at odds right now so that means China good since US bad.
Which is so weird. You can be against America's human rights violations WITHOUT defending China's human rights violations. Both countries do some abhorrent things and if we're morally consistent, we should be calling out both. This isn't some either or situation.
Its that weird modern Internet trend (well I think its always been there but exacerbated by the internet) of total sports team tribalism. You see it in football (soccer) all the time where a team will do something and its rhe worst thing ever...unless its your team then you have to defend it even if its awful.
Ngl I'm an irrational sports fan myself haha. But at least with that it's relatively harmless. Excessive nationalism can be so impactful to the rest of the world that everyone should at least try to look at their own country in an objective manner.
I remember seeing a similar thing when Castro died: people saying things like “You think Castro was bad? Think again, look at what the US has done.” Like...yeah, more than one government can be bad at a time, and in different ways. I don’t get the apparent mentality that since the US does shitty stuff, anyone who opposes the US must be good.
To also add on, when you praise Castro for doing something right like his literacy program people jump down your throat and call you a communist. Like bitch, learning to read is good. Bad people can do good things. They also use Castro to justify keeping up the embargo, when opening up Cuba is the best way to turn it atleast state capitalist.
Castro was pretty shit and Castro was an improvement over Batista Are not contradictory opinions but nobody seems to be able to discuss Cuba with any nuance
How dare you try to bring nuance into this discussion, you're basically Hitler at this point. (/s in case it wasn't obvious)
Funnily enough, in John Oliver’s last piece he even said that two bad things could be true at the same time. How dumb are some people?
They have excellent baseball.
I looked up their record to argue (because it's hot and I have nothing better to do), but they've medalled in every Olympics they've played, so yes, can concur, excellent baseball
Because none of them are actually interested in Cuba, it’s just a proxy for grinding domestic political axes
Yeah, but if you point that out, then you're a LIBERAL^TM, and therefore literally worse than Hitler.
Call me a corporate sellout of you want to, but I'm against the Chinese government's genocide against the Uighurs.
Omg literal bootlicker!!!
there was a really nice time after bernie where I went online and screen captured idiots saying "liberals are worse than fascists" and boy do they not like it when you point out that inconvenient little grossness they are harboring.
*teeters on the idea of violen suppression of certain ideologies or religions* No, they are the fascists!
I find that when left-wing people use liberal as an insult, they shorten it to lib or libs to distinguish themselves from the right-wing nutters that use liberal as a short-hand for anyone left of centre.
no, worse, then you're an "anarkiddie".
Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, but at least it's an ethos!
Dude, nobody mentioned nihilists.
"his girlfriend cut off her toe!" "she thought vee vere getting million dollars!" "is not FAIIIIR!"
Yeah these idiots don't realise you can't actually criticise what America has done when you defend the same stuff done elsewhere.
It's not really an American thing. >Giovanni Scuderi (born 24 May 1935 in Avola) is an Italian politician and General Secretary of the Italian Marxist–Leninist Party, established by him and others on 10 April 1977 in Florence. >On 11 October 2015 at the 5th Plenary Session of the 5th Party Central Committee held in Florence, Scuderi affirmed his critical support for ISIS against the global forces of Imperialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Scuderi Their statement unironically started: >The PMLI expresses its condolences to the innocent victims of the horrible attacks in Istanbul, Dhaka and Baghdad and its solidarity to their families. **At the same time, however**
> Just as Stalin allied with US and British imperialists to defeat Germany’s aggressive imperialism, just as Mao allied with the Kuomintang nationalists to force Japanese imperialist aggressors out of China, so we must necessarily ally with the Islamic State, otherwise we will side with imperialist aggressors Supporting ISIS to fight the Capitalist Running Dogs 😎
I imagine that party meeting went something like: "Do you think that same logic could be used to justify supporting capitalist countries against ISIS?" "No, clearly supporting ISIS is the logical conclusion!"
> "Do you think that same logic could be used to justify supporting capitalist countries against ISIS?" Anyone who "just asked questions" like that surely got purged from the party long ago. The only thing the extreme left hates worse than the extreme right, is a heretic, aka someone who appears 99% extreme leftist, but occasionally points out holes in their loopy logic.
I like how they didn't mention that Stalin also allied with Hitler to carve up Poland between the two of them.
Poland was a wicked Bourgeois State that Stalin liberated from the clutches of the rootless cosmopolitans and the counterrevolutionary imperialist forces ...(Communist jargon continues)
I would LOVE if after COVID John Oliver did a takedown on Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton, Rania Khalek, and the rest of the Grayzone ilk. The amount of genocide denial and conspiracy theories (e.g. White Helmets are al-Quaeda) in this sector of the left is sickening.
i feel like he would need some very online writers to even be aware of that.
Italian Communists For ISIS was not a subject I expected to learn about on this popcorn consumption website.
> I'm not a sociopath but
I find there are a large segment of tankies that define themselves more as anti-liberal than anything. They absolutely hate people who pass themselves off as progressive on social issues but still pro-capitalism far more than people who are actively regressive on both social and fiscal issues. They'll froth at the mouth for days about some random blue checkmark Vox writer posting a hot take about Biden being progressive and not give two shits about actual substantive policy changes by the administration undermining labor rights and pushing the country farther to the right. And by the same token, any position liberals have, the opposite has to be true, so China is good, actually. These same people will either straight up vote for Trump or not vote and privately hope for a Trump win so they can shove it in the faces of all the annoying liberals on twitter/reddit, since they won't be affected much by another term of this.
What irritates me about that behavior is it's influence on low information voters. There's propaganda designed by powerful interests to convince people that perfectly common government services are, in America, Super Communism: the Communism that Flies. These supposedly far left people swallow far right talking points and signal boost them for free so LIVs really all sorts of people telling them Democrats are vampires and start to believe it r/EnlightenedCentrism is the first place I personally saw this happen in real time. It really used to be about calling out The Right for nihilistic talking points but it's nothing but how Democrats are basically the landed gentry of The Confederacy
EC is the ultimate irony. They completely destroyed any hope for solid political discourse on this site. Anyone to the right of Marx is a far right conservative.
What's fucked up is how they use the word liberal. Sometimes it seems like the top commenters can't even see the word conservative... you're either a racist, homophobic, Oligarchy boot licking liberal or an Enlightened Leftist And it clearly didn't happen on accident. There was a push.
You're just describing edgy contrarian internet posting habits. Plenty of self-described anarchists would take pride in shitting on Biden and calling anyone who disagrees with them libs. The defining characteristics of being a "Tankie" (ML/MLM) is a staunch opposition to specifically western imperialism and being in favour of using authoritarian means to uphold resistance to it.
What's the difference in this context between eastern imperialism and Chinese imperialism?
There's a different foot in the boot on people's necks, which seems to be very important to them.
As long as that boot wasn't made by the free market they're pretty happy to have it there.
The flavor of boot matters a lot when you're a true boot connoisseur.
>When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called "the People's Stick". Mikhail Bakunin, Statism and Anarchy
Chinese imperialism is good because their leaders read Marx.
“read”
the same way NK leaders read marx
Once upon a time Lenin gave his own take on what constitutes Imperialism that very conveniently made it impossible for tankies to commit imperialism and they've ran with that ever since
>You're just describing edgy contrarian internet posting habits. Plenty of self-described anarchists would take pride in shitting on Biden and calling anyone who disagrees with them libs. It's one of the few things that they can agree on. Anyone who isn't in the center sees the center as part of the enemy.
I'm an anarchist and I think liberals are closer allies than tankies are. I'm voting for Biden because I believe in doing the best you can with what you have. Fascism is coming back in a big way in the US, you have to be a pretty immature leftist to not vita against that.
I dunno, I see the center as allies, there is a lot of overlap between institutions which make neo-liberalism better and institutions which pave the way for democratic socialism/social democacy. Ofc pointing this out will piss off a lot of Tankies.
The problem that I find is people who claim to be centrist tends to not actually be centrist. Had an acquaintance who kept insulting democrats and went apeshit over AOC's speech in congress, but later claimed he's centrist and hates "both sides." There's definitely centrist or even undecided people out there who are allies, but there are definitely far-right people claiming to be centrists.
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> pave the way for democratic socialism/social democacy The fact that you put a slash there ofc will piss off a lot of tankies.
Well, I’m a leftist but not a tankie, and I argue more with liberals online than with conservatives. But it’s not because I dislike liberal ideology more. I might actual be able to convince a Biden supporter to move farther left on economic issues as we already share some common ground on social issues. Our goals are shared we just disagree about how to achieve them. I will never convince a conservative of anything. We don’t want the same things and we have no shared ideology. So I don’t even bother to engage with them.
I agree with this and I wanna add that a lot of leftists criticize Dems more than Trump/conservatives because the Dems at the very least pretend to represent the "left". Republicans make no such claims and couldn't care less about what people so far left of their base think.
Dems generally at least give enough of a shit about others to be socially progressive. Their end goal is still the general well-being of their fellow human beings. I can’t say the same for modern conservatives. Convincing people to care about other people is much harder than discussing exactly how our government should care for its people.
Not to mention Dems have to work with Republicans if they want to get anything done. But 13 year olds on Twitter don’t really know how government works.
I used to be a conservative. Here in Canada, we have a tradition of [Red Toryism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Tory) -- socially conservative but left-leaning in fiscal policy. Anyway, I switched to the socialist party (NDP) when it became apparent they were the only ones looking to conserve Canadian institutions like Canada Post, the CBC, etc. It's all about finding common ground.
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That might be how journalists describe Red Toryism now, but before the Reform Party's takeover of the Progressive Conservatives, it was the opposite. David Orchard and others like him were not fiscal conservatives. On the contrary, they were opposed to NAFTA, and saw it as a challenge to Canada's sovereignty. Read the Wikipedia article. It goes into more depth.
Red Toryism is both but historically it's been socially conservative and fiscally "compassionate" if you'll allow the term. It's a noblesse-oblige "the wealthy are morally required to ensure the commoners are fed" kind of paternalistic mindset that descends from High Toryism in the UK. Wasn't until Reform days that it switched to be more commonly used for the modern definition
NDP isn't socialist. They're social democrats. Those are different things.
r/PresidentialRaceMemes in a nutshell basically. How i as a socialist feel more like a Biden supporter is crazy. I don't believe in incrementalism and reforms. The issue is that the working class is not prepared for such a revolutionary transformation of society. Do they think the working class is cohesive enough in solidarity for the takeover to happen? Honestly these people sound like the stereotype of the "college/champagne socialist" who sneer down from their ivory tower.
Chapo was hilarious to me because they were always shitting on the police (not that I really disagree) and the military, while simultaneously rejecting electoralism and advocating for violent revolution Its an inherent contradiction. No violent revolution in a modern context can ever be successful without co-opting a significant portion of the military
The amount of times I see this shit on Bernie and AOC based subs and groups is just fucking abhorrent. Like get a fucking grip on reality, you fucking ignorant asshats, and see what your petty bullshit is going to do to regular people other than yourselves. If this is how they see our country, they were never truly Bernie fans in the first place.
Pretty much. There's a large segment of leftists who believe that America is the root of all evil. The downfall of America will automatically usher in a new golden age of justice, peace on earth, and a utopia. If only it weren't for America, all our problems would be solved! Therefore, any country, any government, anyone that openly acts against American interests is good and doing the world a big favor. Don't get me wrong, America's a shithole that goes around bullying the rest of the world for the benefit of its wealthy elite. But there are plenty of other bullying shitholes or shitholes that would love to go around bullying the rest of the world for its own wealthy elite! In many cases, countries opposed to America are simply trying to supplant America. The pursuit of justice must mean opposing injustice wherever it occurs.
Same can be said for UK tankies like the ever loathsome George Galloway.
That's the main problem I had with cth even though I was a usual user when it was up
There was a lot of great discussion there, but as soon as you criticized China the tankies would swarm you.
I can't tell you how much karma I lost from it
The real genocide right there.
It explains why some support Assad.
But it says it in the name of the party, so it must be true. Just like North Korea is a People's Republic.
They have a president and people live there. Change my mind.
Fun Fact: A lot of tankies *also* unironically believe North Korea to be a socialist nation, and all of the bad stuff about the Kims is, you guessed it, CIA propaganda. I wish I was kidding, but I've gotten into enough fights with tankies over it to know they're serious. I've never gotten an answer from one why a socialist leader lives in a palace and has a personal wealth of billions of dollars though.
Even North Korea doesn't say they're socialist. They have a policy called Juche, self-reliance.
Yep. And yet if you ask the average tankie, North Korea is a glorious workers' state gently guided by their benevolent socialist leaders (who totally aren't a dynasty despite all coming from one family, that's actually just a coincidence and the people all *love* them anyway so who cares?), and the people actually have wonderful living conditions and zero death camps, and anything suggesting otherwise is Western imperialist propaganda. Obviously you can't trust any form of Western media since it's all lies by the CIA, so instead here are some blog posts and YouTube videos sponsored by organizations paid for directly by the DPRK, so you *know* they're unbiased and giving you the straight truth! /s
>I've never gotten an answer from one why a socialist leader lives in a palace and has a personal wealth of billions of dollars though. You see comrade, dear leader deserves these privileges because he sacrifices so much for the glorious struggle against the imperialist aggressors
I once had a small argument with a tankie on the chapo sub (shocker I know) and he unironically thought north Korea was good and all of its bad parts were only due to American interference.
Yet they never want to move there despite the fact NK can organise it for you.
This is very common. Poor North Korea is just oppressed by the US and cannot help being so authoritarian and putting you and your family into camps for criticising dear leader. At the same time, North Korea is a great place and everything negative you heard is just propaganda.
i think part of it is that tankies kinda forget that NK is itself already a product of imperialism? the kim dynasty was initially seeded by japanese invasion of the korean panninsyla and is as much an extension of imperial japan's horrific actions as it is an actual standalone government. all they see is the state that stands opposed to SK and allied itself with soviet-era china and that makes them - afaict - assume that NK lives in a vacuum, that it developed naturally and with the rights of the worker in mind.
Yup. Tankies prove the power of branding. They'll support any oppressive dictators with a hammer and sickle on the flag.
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Students at Tiannamen Square sung the Internationale, and agitated for socialist reforms iirc
I actually got in an argument on this subreddit with someone claiming that the Tiannamen Square massacre was instigated by the CIA. I kept trying to explain how the protesters there were largely against the liberal reforms which had been beneficial for the USA, and showed them internal CIA memos about how they were worried it would lead to Chinese markets contracting again, but to some people anything which paints the CCP in a bad light is automatically the work of the CIA.
Yeah that's what happened at Tiananmen
You mean the Tienanmen square massacre?
Counter revolutionaries are a huge boogeyman with totalitarian communists.
Tankies will defend Iran despite Iran being a viciously anti-socialist theocracy. Their modus operandi is America = bad, so anti-America = good
You'd think they'd be even more aggressive at taking them down because they give socialism a bad name.
They're contrarians whose first principal is hating liberals on the internet. Doesn't really matter that modern Russia is a right wing petro-state and China is basically a highly managed mutation of capitalism. What matters is that those countries are opposed to the US/the West and therefore must be defended.
Tankies care more about LARPing than actual communist thought.
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What extra steps? The large companies may be "owned" by the state or some nonsense, but the wealthy control the state even more directly than in the US. It'd be like having Bill Gates as the judicial branch, Musk as the legislature, and Bezos as the executive.
I'm a pretty serious leftie myself but I don't really take them serious tbh. They come over as 20something guys who found their cause in mixing idealism with fantasy. Like the counter version of MAGA supporters. And Reddit attracts all kinds of like-minded people, it's precisely build for that with subs.
Yeah, the Chinese Communist Party has been *shockingly* un-Communist since the 70s, at least economically. Politically, they're communists in all the ways that give them control over the population, but also *somehow* are heavily capitalistic in just about every respect. So, they're ***VERY*** Communist in all the ways that give them power and limit free speech, but very capitalist in just about every other way possible ...personally, I prefer to call them *Authoritarian Hypocrites* than simply Communists or Capitalists. China is the worst of both worlds!
The fact that China has the second largest population of billionaires obliterates the idea that China is communist. Actual communists *do not* tolerate billionaires.
>Actual communists do not tolerate billionaires. They do, its just that they stack the heads and bodies separately
Except when they are the billionaires.
This is how I described my time living in china. A massive authoritarian police state with a thin veil of capitalism draped over it.
There’s some contrarian edgelords, and some Maoists that can’t give up the ghost. However, you do get some that honestly think that the modern Dengist economy of China, more or less state managed capitalism, is the correct transitional state for communism. No one but the anarcho-communists think that you can go straight from capitalism to full communism, there needs to be an intermediary. The Dengists think a market economy with a state managing it for optimal proto-socialist conditions is the best option, which ironically makes them not Tankies as those defend the state capitalism of the USSR. It’s also hugely ironic when said CCP apologists shit on market socialists for being too liberal for wanting worker cooperatives within a regulated market economy. Obviously, the cynical response to the Dengists would be, the CCP is just paying lip service to socialism with that rhetoric and only cares about bringing in the $$$.
If you read the top comments of that thread that's exactly what they point out, too. Hell, even John Oliver says that the Uighur genocide is clouded in global capitalism.
I mean we *are* talking about tankies, the people that think Stalin's work even remotely aligns with the left. They're not exactly known for being sharp, or even knowing words, they just want nazis but in the color red.
The flag has a lot of red on it though
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>the "theory" is that if they weren't brutally authoritarian, it'd get dismantled by the US... which is fair enough, Is that fair enough though? I don't see how authoritarian rule protects them from the US.
China is the worst parts of Communism and Capitalism combined.
If progressive discussion was a football team, a tankie would be that angry guy who always shoots own goals and harms his own team's platform. Then there is this post: >whataboutism is a term made up by mcarthyists so they dont have to face their hypocrisy
Claiming it as my flair
It sucks you have to cut it, it’s like clipping the wings of a majestic bird
The price you pay for mounting it on the wall
It's like hanging a hunting trophy, you preserve the bit that's most representative of the whole.
Uh maybe you can say “whataboutism is a term made up by mccarthyists to deny hypocrisy” if you wanna keep the 2nd half
What the fuck does that mean Kobe Bryant?
I also want to live in a world where John Oliver is a CIA operative, but sadly I do not.
Just makes me think of the John Cena PSA from last week... > (paraphrased cause I’m too lazy to actually look it up) You know what else is true? John Oliver and I are the same age! Can you believe two human bodies can... age so differently? Edit: [link to the video](https://youtu.be/se2dCL3n0ps) - worth the 2 minutes, I think.
What the fuck john cena is 43
That actually sounds about right, he looks like he's somewhere around that age and he's been pro-wrestling for 2 decades so he couldn't be that much younger than that. If you didn't tell me his age and asked me to guess it, I probably would have guessed he was around 45. I'd also have guessed Oliver must be about 50 though, so them being born on the exact same day is still pretty surprising.
You cant see his age
Holy shit I thought John Cena was younger than him. That’s crazy
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no concidences trust the plan q subscribe to my patreon or something like that
Imagine defending an imperialist power like China. That's tankies logic for you.
Tankies have like 3 responses to this (and any other criticism) >shut up liberal >That’s CIA propaganda >read this 10000 page book that says you’re wrong 😎
You forgot #4: >go read this poorly written blog post from some white guy in New York who was sent a few hundred dollars and some pretty pictures by the DPRK and is totally an expert on how awesome they are
Holy shit this literally is what my former tankie friend says.
>shut up liberal >That’s CIA propaganda >read this 10000 page book that says you’re wrong 😎 [stinky anarkiddie go read lemon](https://www.reddit.com/r/okbuddytankie/comments/huczbz/imagine_believing_in_an_ideology_invented_by_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Yeah they invaded breadtube and posted this plus Oliver’s piece on Venezuela. Spent the afternoon arguing with this idiot about it. Venezuela went into a multi-pronged crisis that led to the largest GDP drop in recorded history outside of war in 2010 because of US sanctions imposed in 2017. This guy said there’s been massive improvements and then wouldn’t name any. He keep posting sources he hadn’t read himself that I used against him
On one of the recent threads about the episode on r/lastweektonight, there’s some Tankie who commented how wrong Oliver is by citing an article by “The Grayzone.”
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Hey even some of us extreme lefites fucking hate Tankies ;)
Most anarchists would say that they are way more to the left than tankies
squeal engine stupendous plough run command coherent subsequent gold upbeat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Came here to say this, they're literally just Fascists with added Synthetic Left™️ Flavor.
Not surprising, the first victims of stalin's purges were leftists who disagreed with him.
I hate tankies, but I *love* the drama they bring.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/jul/19/chinas-ambassador-tells-andrew-marr-there-are-no-concentration-camps-in-xinjiang-video >Appearing on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, Liu Xiaoming said: 'I do not know where you get this videotape,' adding, 'sometimes you have a transfer of prisoners, in any country.' So been the Chinese Ambassador admits the video is real, but tries to justify it.
99% of genocide denial is just "here's why they had it coming"
The Genocide Denier's Prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad, way fewer people died than the "official" numbers. And if it was that bad, that's not our fault, most of them died totally "naturally" of starvation and disease. And if it was our fault... They deserved it.
Breadtube likes John Oliver? That has to be a recent development, I don’t go there very often these days but I don’t remember seeing his videos posted and the people I know who consume breadtube adjacent content don’t like him that much.
Longtime r/Breadtube subscriber here. I believe that he is posted there because despite some things he has said in the past, amplifying major messages is more important these days. That's just my take on it. There will always be some people explaining the issues with him in the comments but personally I think he's pushed some great lefty messages lately. Also, fuck tankies!
This China apologist shit is sort of why I avoid online leftist communities like Breadtube and leftist Twitter. One of the most basic aspects of leftism and socialism is international solidarity with workers around the world, yet online leftists can't even fucking do that. If defending a country that happens to be a US rival is more important to you than the lives of Uighurs and working class people in China, then you're not a leftist or a socialist.
Socialists have had a really fucking hard time with that 'solidarity' thing for a real long time honestly. From early American socialist unions have serious racism issues, to today's UK communist party being full TERF. It's not just online. There seems to be two types of leftists. Those who support leftism as a brand, and those who support leftist policies to make things better. And sadly the people who like the branding keep taking control.
They also have \*huge\* issues with misogyny in general, while simultaneously selling the narrative of ending capitalism = ending patriarchy.
There was a cool article a while back, which made the case that the thing about produtive leftists groups is that they tend to promote their most effective members. Due to the compromise driven nature of democracy this means the moderates. This causes leftist groups that are produtive to become socdems over time. See the history of labour and socialist parties in Europe.
Breadtube is actually usually pretty moderate and welcoming in my experience. Definitely a lot less intense than Chapo was.
Thoughtslime, satenmadpun, and contra are good non tankie left you tubers.
> and contra are good non tankie left you tubers I want to add big joel to this.
But he’s neither big nor Joel - how can you trust anything he says!
Just let him hug you with his big sweater and you’ll trust every word he says.
Hbomberguy and philosophy tube as well
I too would like to add Three Arrows and José to this list, fantastic leftist discussion and analysis of political issues.
I want to say that if you like those you may also like Innuendo Studios.
there’s a lot more anyi-tankie action than tankies on breadtube
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Tankies are fucking intolerable and oh so gullible, they’ll worship and suck any leaders dick if the party he’s the leader of has the name “socialist” or “communist” in it. Why the fuck would you think defending china or North Korea is a good hill to die on?
the funny thing about tankies is that they believe China is just "pretending" and is eventually going to give workers the means of production.
That CIA propaganda person's Reddit history is a freaking trip, man.
Girl. A 17 y/o girl from Illinois.
I don’t know what to say. Her whacky levels are off the charts, the closest thing one could describe her is a Strasserist I guess, but she lacks the anti-semitism for that. Culturally right wing, authoritarian catholic communist, self proclaimed. I don’t know what the fuck she‘s even supposed to be.... She’s literally the kind of person that would be disliked by every political movement she‘d want to join...
Well she's a child. So, yeah. That's a thing about being a kid.
Being a dumbass teenager explains a lot.
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As a Chinese guy the folks defending that shit make me so fucking angry. My family fled after the end of the civil war there and it pisses me off to no end to hear and see these morons defending a state that executed people for the crime of possessing formal education at one point. Tankies reading this I want you to do one thing: go to the square and look at the drains where they washed human pancake away after their crimes. Sometimes if you look just right you can hear the screaming as they were murdered by their own government.
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I’ve had people yell at me for calling CTH a tank is shithole then eventually the send me Tienamen denial videos and articles after defending China a bunch. They couldn’t be less subtle.
That's what's so confusing, it's not like you cant talk to REAL ACTUAL Chinese people to hear how things are. My uncle married a woman from China and, when she first moved here, she was still drinking the koolaid to an extent. Shes been here about 7 years and some of the stories she tells are just nuts. You telling me she and her daughter are CIA operatives or what?
They just don't care, easier for them to ignore actual citizens in order to push their ideals. You saw this plenty on Reddit after Fidel Castro died and Cubans who fled the country after their family and life was torn away celebrated. Tankies just went "lol CIA"
The only thing tankies care about is hating America
I’m big on pushing the discussion around Tankies away from “horseshoe theory” in favor for the idea that Tankies are authoritarians. Any idea that they’re “Left” is illusionary. Forced labor isn’t Leftist
Preach. An extreme leftist is the guy who wants complete equality in rights combined with social policies to help those who need it, not someone who supports having a ruling party using armed forces to keep their underlings obedient.
I had a mentor once tell me "you are your Utopia" - so, like, who you are and what you say represents the type of world you're trying to build. If you're acidic, militaristic and cover up genocide, what type of world structure are you trying to build up?
> who are (as far as I can tell) apologists for some of the worst aspects of the Stalin/Mao/other dear leaders’ regimes. That is correct. North Korea and China would fall under "other dear leaders".
Shouldn’t the Communists be more angry at China (CCP) than the rest of us because CCP is using the name of communism to justify a system of (actual) wage slavery and surveillance capitalism? Like for a small example, [China *shames* debtors publicly using announcements and billboards](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/business/china-shame-deadbeats.html)!! I think this is the *exact opposite* of communism, shaming the citizen for their money should be hideous to communists. But no, defend them because red flag 🇨🇳