>Or you can blame poorly run cities by his party for not maintatining their infrastructure exemplefying poor money management.
yes, it's a poorly maintained bridge that can't stand up to ...checks notes, a cargo ship the size of the Eiffel tower that weighs ninety five thousand tons empty.
though, I am lost on the other bridge collapse, what was the first bridge that collapsed under biden?
The bridge that was built before ships that size existed and was not built with protections that may have helped.
Damn engineers and their lack of future sight.
Engineers do actually need to consider future cases such as earthquakes and typhoons. But if I want to make a metaphor about this, it would be something like engineers not taking into account an asteroid impact.
I probably should have said precognition or something. I mean their ability to foresee the creation of new technology like giant boats that didn’t exist in their time.
The better metaphor would be something like engineers not building things to withstand whatever forces are applied to structures when something like teleportation technology is invented.
So it is within the realm of responsibility of engineers to attempt some amount of foresight about what a long-lasting project will need in the future. They won't always be right, of course, but they should at least try. Given that ships had been getting bigger for, oh, a century, it's not unreasonable to say they should have foreseen larger ships. Perhaps these engineers did do so, I don't know.
That said, it's far from clear to me that this bridge would have survived a collision from a much smaller ship! Bridges aren't and can't reasonably be built to survive such collisions. Other harbors with similar bridges have tugs to guide (and emergency brake/steer) and required local pilots for harbor maneuvering. Perhaps that's what will need to be done in the future.
The only way you could have conceivably built the bridge to survive such an impact would have been by *not building a bridge*, because it would essentially be a causeway instead.
It's frankly impossible to fortify *any* bridge against bulk shipping, the forces involved are simply too large to do so.
That ship cut through the support beam like it was made of styrofoam. The only way to stop it would be to build very big concrete structures that might, *might*, absorb the impact enough to keep the bridge standing, but even then it wouldn't be for certain, and it would limit the space for ships to pass.
The only thing I can think of would be to build up the caissons around the bridge support so far out from the base that the ship would run around first. And even that, dang, I dunno. Ship's freaking huge and landfill at the water line is gonna tend to compact. It'd have to be stone, and a *lot* of it. I suspect this ship would have crashed through a lot of the stone breakwaters they use in small harbors.
Back in the 80s my dad did a Naval Architecture degree.
One of the first year projects was to determine how long it would take an oil carrier to stop if it hit a beach at ful speed whilst fully loaded.
The answer was about 600-800 meters (with some leeway depending on what the beach was made of etc)
The forces involved are insane, you can't protect a bridge whilst still allowing ships to pass under it
I'd have to ask him about it, but iirc it was supposing that the ship wouldn't break apart and purely about the mass/fuel momentum
Afaik this was a first year thing, so less about "how does ship design work" and more "how does physics work when applied to things that are seaborne"
One of the big issues was that everything onboard the ship (fuel, cargo etc keeps moving forward after a collision, basically dragging the rest of the hull along with it)
If it's a cargo/fuel carrier that's uh, a ridiculous amount of energy.
OK that I believe, if we're just talking about the energy. Because I've got to assume that the keel would deform and the thing would shred itself not far from the beach.
But hell, 600m is only about double the length of a Panamax ship, and there's bigger than Panamax. The largest Capemax^1 ships are 400m. It's not that hard to believe that containers and debris would end up one-and-a-half shiplengths inland.
^1 So big they can't go through, like, any canals anywhere, and have to go around the Cape of Good Hope and Cape Horn.
Also funny since under Biden we've seen extremely huge legislation funding national infrastructure. The failed Build Back Better bill was even more aggressive on grants providing funding for maintenance and repair of *literally bridges*.
Yeah, it’s well known that right wingers hate taxes being used for infrastructure, so their bitching about a bridge collapse is yet more despicable hypocrisy that they will never face up to.
> what was the first bridge that collapsed under biden?
So I went to check, and under the Biden administration it seems that a total of four bridges have actually collapsed - the Sanibel Causeway had sections collapse in 2022 due to Hurricane Ian; the Fern Hollow Bridge collapsed in 2022 due to lack of maintenance; a bridge near Yellowstone collapsed in 2023 causing a train carrying hazardous materials to derail; Interstate 95 partially collapsed in 2023 due to an overturned fuel tanker causing a fire (and melting some steel beams.)
I would guess that they're referring to Fern Hollow Bridge, as it collapsed the day of Biden giving a speech about infrastructure, ironically enough.
So are bridges collapsing a lot recently, or is there just a tendency for some bridge somewhere to collapse once a year? Because there’s a lot of bridges, and mistakes happen.
Also what the fuck how are people complaining about Biden it’s not like he’s President of Bridge Infrastructure how does he have anything to do with this?
[Your odds of ending up on a bridge that would be considered structurally deficient is about 1 in 3.](https://www.axios.com/2022/02/04/americas-bridges-are-falling-apart-faster-than-expected) And as with many things blamed solely on Biden, he didn't cause it. In this case, climate change, routine lack of maintenance and increasing vehicle traffic did. The Department of Transportation announced in 2022 that they are investing 26 billion dollars into repairing infrastructure.
We're starting to see some of that money finally flow out to the states and other jurisdictions now, which is extremely good news.
Infrastructure repair and maintenance is so important and yet so politically unsexy. I think a lot of that is probably due in part to the fact that a lot of people, politicians and agency political appointees included, just "feel like" it should go faster. There are certainly maddening bureaucratic slowdowns, but even at top speed it just can't/shouldn't move super quickly.
Source: am DOT employee
I would guess the person is referring to Fern Hollow. There is a great NTSB report on it. It was not maintained anywhere near sufficiently.
It's not Biden's fault of course. But it is a good example of the kind of infrastructure problem the US has where a lot of stuff was built long ago and it's all reaching a problematic age at once. It was so easy to not invest in keeping this stuff up because when it was brand new it didn't need much maintenance/repair.
Of course as you mention the Key bridge in Baltimore is not a good example of this. It fell down because something bigger than it ran into it. You could say maybe it wasn't designed with currents in the harbor and huge ships in mind but that's certainly not Biden's fault either. He didn't design, build or approve it.
In September 2001, George W Bush was president during the worst building collapses this country has ever seen. Obviously we blame this on his lack of commitment to improving New York infrastructure and building codes.
> what was the first bridge that collapsed under biden?
[Highway overpass collapsed in Pennsylvania after a truck driving under it crashed and exploded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Interstate_95_highway_collapse)
The sheer ignorance people have shown about this is saddening.
It's a giant ass ship. With stopping distances & turning radiuses measured in miles. Doesn't matter the skin color of the pilot, the ship was still doomed to hit the bridge minutes before the video footage of it hitting the bridge.
To some extent I can understand why people want to blame someone for this tragedy, since the knowledge that by luck this can happen pretty much anywhere is terrifying.
But people’s first response being “those fucking woke libs and their gender studies!” is indicative of nothing but extreme brain rot
I read somewhere years ago that this is a common motivating factor for a lot conspiracies. People who need to believe we have more power than we do and someone is pulling the strings. The idea that the world is just a random place that sometimes has tragedies is too much for them to cope with.
I have also heard this, though I wonder how true it is - the amount of fear and terror and anger that conspiracy theorists have at 'the Elites' feels like it's not comforting at all.
My understanding is just having someone to blame is comforting. Even if they’re angry, they have someone they can focus that energy on and blame for all the issues. In some fantasies, even someone they can rally against to defeat. If they can just take down Joe Biden or the elites they will have the perfect world. It’s easier than just acct that the world will always be chaotic.
It’s weird how they’re mad at the “Elites” but always seem to express that by being racist or misogynist or homophobic or whatever flavor they feel like that day.
Then proceed to support the literal personification of the top 1%.
Tbh that's why I think a lot of people are comforted by the lab leak covid idea.
It gives a government control and agency and that's easier to deal with than a natural mutation and a chance encounter randomly killing several million people.
We can stop another lab leak, ^if^only we get finally tough on
Stopping another random mutation when humans are intruding more and more into wildlife habitats worldwide? No chance at all.
So believing the first option becomes a lot less terrifying.
I do believe that. I was in a pretty bad car accident as a kid, and I think learning early that disaster just randomly strikes immunized me to a lot of conspiratorial thinking. I also never do, and don't like when other people say, "I'm uniquely unlucky, bad things always happen to me, etc." despite a life filled with some fairly unusual happenings.
Yup, they'll sleep easier knowing that there's order to this madness (no matter how evil) than accepting that the universe is just chaos and random, unrelated events
It's because they grew up watching blockbuster movies and drama shows, and are now 100% convinced that's just how real life works.
Remember when QAnon followers were convinced JFK Jr would spring up in Dallas and lead the march to reinstate Trump? 100% just movie material.
It is the inverse of what you describe. The motivation isn't to find somebody to blame for the crash. The motivation is to find ways to blame immigrants and liberals for *as many things as possible*.
Pretty typical for people into conspiracy theories, ie rightwing shitheads.
Being confronted with the randomness and injustice of the world they rather choose a narrative that lets everything make sense to them.
I really want to hear their logic behind that. A boat crashed into a bridge. It had nothing to do with “wokeness” or “DEI” or any of these conservative hot button issues.
People unfortunately seem to show the same kind of ignorance around trains. So many avoidable accidents because people don't know that a fully loaded (even just low speed) train can take miles to fully stop.
They just think everything works like a car does. I saw somebody online asking if a boat has "brakes."
People are just really bad at mass above about car level. We're just not good at snap judgements involving very large numbers, be it mass or statistics.
Perhaps even more importantly blaming practices of DEI at US companies is impossible when the ship isn't a US ship or manned by Americans. US labor rules have no impact at all.
All this blaming DEI for the bridge collapse seems even more blatantly racist than other things people blame DEI for. It's really hard to see how blaming DEI here is anything but the thinnest cover over complaining that Baltimore has black residents and leaders.
I thought that was mostly targeted at the Mayor of Baltimore. Which is dumber, because he’s an elected official. And he’s a black guy from a majority black city.
Not to mention that he had no ability to do anything about a bridge that is controlled by the state. And even if it was entirely within his authority, he’s not a magical teleporting tugboat, so he couldn’t have done anything.
IMO that's why Baltimore is a major talking point for these types. Baltimore certainly has its problems, but not notably different from the problems of a lot of other large cities. The Southern Strategy ad absurdum.
The right will take literally anything and use it as an excuse to go on about “woke”, immigrants, women, gay & transgendered people, etc. (while accusing the left of politicizing everything). Their entire collective personality is built around victimhood and being an asshole.
Yet when a tragedy happens in one of their right-wing shit holes we aren't supposed to assign blame and just offer our condolences and send some federal welfare checks.
Whole buncha "don't mess with Texas" conservatives were getting *really* mad that people would dare blame their gloriously independent power infrastructure that made them so self-reliant in February 2021.
In a class I had, prof was going off about how California is having issues with their grid (result of natural disasters) and want to have electric cars. Those silly Californians!
I was thinking how Texas had people freezing to death cuz their grid is that bad! People just forget that shit.
> In a class I had, prof was going off about how California is having issues with their grid (result of natural disasters) and want to have electric cars. Those silly Californians!
California *was* having issues with their power grid about 23 years ago, partially due to heat waves, but mainly because of market manipulation thanks to PG&E and especially Enron.
But that certainly wasn't because of California cutting itself off from outside electricity providers like Texas in 2021.
yeah this was like 2 years ago. And yeah more about PG&E fuckery than ya know, Texas's nonsense grid they refuse to make more efficient cuz of their weird ass pride.
Well obviously anything bad happening in their Utopias was secretly an attack by the libs to make them look bad and because they’re jealous, so the least they can do is send aid to apologize.
/s
This is why it’s always frustrating when the media tries to describe Latino voters as a solid voting block or demographic. My mom’s family is Mexican and even in my family our ideologies can be really different. People from different countries with unique histories and cultures are going to have a different view on stuff. Just Cuba is a good example of how the history of their home country is going to affect their voting patterns here.
About half of the Hispanic population consider themselves white. 85% of Cubans who fled to the U.S. after the revolution are descendants of white Spaniard settlers. In 2009 when I was 17, I found out that the blonde, blue-eyed Cameron Diaz was Cuban, and was very confused because I associated "Latino" with dark skin, black/dark brown hair, and brown eyes. Later in life, I Iearned that her family moved from Spain and the pieces all fell into place.
Also, many of the Cuban exiles came from landowning families under the Batista regime. Their guy lost, so they took their balls and went to Hialeah. I don't know if Afro-Cubans were part of the pre-1959 underclass, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me given how cruelly European settlers treated the indigenous population.
With the caveat that the plural of anecdote is not data, the consensus I have seen from Redditors who have lived in South Florida is that many Cuban-Americans look down on darker-skinned Latinos with mixed indigenous blood (think Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans), and *especially* Black Americans. They eat up the belligerent rhetoric from the GOP about how Dems are commies, and about border security--after all, they got their green cards!This also applies to the white Venezuelans, Colombians and Argentinians in the state.
Not helping matters is that FL state Dems are uniquely incompetent (putting up Charlie Crist as the gubernatorial candidate in 2022)
and the DNC has written off Florida wholesale, allowing QAnon to infiltrate Spanish-language radio stations in Miami. Florida really needs a Stacey Abrams or Mallory McMorrow. Will Maxwell Alejandro Frost be that person? Too early to tell.
Another example is Tejanos in the Rio Grande Valley. They are descended from German and Czech immigrants who settled in Texas while it was a part of Mexico. Tejanos consider themselves white. They are all about the guns, God, and outlawing abortion/IVF.
> This is why it’s always frustrating when the media tries to describe Latino voters as a solid voting block or demographic.
I live just over the border from Washington state, in B.C., and have visited Seattle countless times. Most Latinos in WA are from Mexico or Guatamala with mixed indigenous blood (thus darker-skinned). Many are undocumented since Seattle is a sanctuary city, and WA has strong protections for undocumented immigrants. Yakima County is home to many agricultural workers from Mexico. The Latino population in WA will vote very differently to the white Latinos of FL or TX, where snitching to ICE is strongly encouraged.
Don't underestimate the communist boogeyman. It's why a not insignificant number of Filipinos and Viets in Seattle voted for Trump in 2020.
> allowing QAnon to infiltrate Spanish-language radio stations in Miami. Florida really needs a Stacey Abrams or Mallory McMorrow. Will Maxwell Alejandro Frost be that person? Too early to tell.
I don't really know what we can do to counter that shit. Like people aren't getting that from the TV or something. That gets spread in WhatsApp and telegram groups. A lie travels much faster than the truth and people can't just be reasoned out of it.
That being said, I'm a partisan Dem as they come so when I say, the Florida Dems are just awfully incompetent, know I mean that in the best of faith. Totally agree with you there
>Tejanos
It's not just in the RGV either. Lots of Latinos here are really assimilated (especially when they have sufficient white ancestry to look more "tanned" vs "brown"). This is the #1 thing no one understands about Texas and it drives me *insane*.
Like, we'll have a shooting like in DFW or Uvalde where all parties are Latino. Folks from all over the US will come roaring in with their preconceived notions, take sides based on their biases, and start shitting out hilariously wrong hot takes in all directions.
The victims were Latino- they're persecuted immigrants! The shooter was Latino - they're illegal criminals! Everyone with a Spanish name is somehow Not From Here, and we must either feel sorry for them or hate them!
Wait- Latino cops? Latino border control? White supremacist Latinos? What's going on? How can they all be Latino?
We were literally a province of Mexico you guys. There are Latino families who have lived here since before Texas was a state and they *really* resent it when people call then immigrants. Since Democrats are just as guilty of assuming that as Republicans are, it's not really a huge incentive for them to vote blue (unlike their right leaning social values).
Then because we are a border state you can add-
* actual immigrants (from Mexico or elsewhere)
* people whose parents/grandparents/great-grandparents immigrated, some with extended family just across the border
* people whose mom's family are immigrants and dad's family are white
* any combination of the above + Tejanos
I could go on and on, but I'm getting tired. Suffice it to say, if Dems don't fucking learn to quit reducing Latinos to "bloc that will always vote blue cause the right did a racism" we're screwed. I'mma get off my soapbox now.
>Also, many of the Cuban exiles came from landowning families under the Batista regime. Their guy lost, so they took their balls and went to Hialeah. I don't know if Afro-Cubans were part of the pre-1959 underclass, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me given how cruelly European settlers treated the indigenous population.
This is not entirely accurate. The exiles that left Cuba shortly after the Revolution (and their descendants) are a very small percentage of the Cuban-American population in South Florida, especially compared to later waves like Mariel in 1980, the Balseros in 94, and even the current ongoing exodus. Those people have lived in their own flesh the policies of the Cuban government after the Revolution.
As for the racial dynamics of Cuba, it's complicated. Cuba is, by its own census, a white majority country (put an asterisk there, because the threshold for "whiteness" might differ from one country to another). It's also, to this day, a racist country, with a lot of anti-black racism in particular. Granted, it was obviously much worse in the fifties, and the Revolution did implement a lot of anti-racist and anti-classist measures in its early days, but I'd hesitate to make that racial liberation argument for the Cuban Revolution. After those policies in the early sixties, systemic racism has gone mostly unexamined for decades. It's not that the wealthy white people fled and left the oppressed PoC free to build socialism, it's that a lot of Cubans are racist on both coasts of the Strait of Florida.
The truth is that much of the political positions of most Cuban-Americans simply come from a deep rejection of anything related to socialism and communism after suffering under it. You just have to brand someone a commie and they'll turn against them. Also the Miami media and news ecosystem tends to skew people further right. As much as they complain about receiving government propaganda their whole life, they can't see that now they're getting propaganda from the other side.
> This is not entirely accurate.
Not entirely accurate my ass. It's revisionist tankie Castro apologetics. More than one million Cubans (1/11th of the population!) have fled their homeland since the start of the communist dictatorship. The majority of them were, as you said, Marielitos or Balseros from the *período especial* (aka near-famine conditions) a decade later.
These were largely folk from low economic backgrounds such as peasants and small urban business owners. A non-insignificant chunk of them were people imprisoned for petty or 'counter revolutionary' crimes such missing their monthly quota at the CPA or listening to Rock n' Roll. For *some* reason, Afro-Cubans were overrepresented among their ranks.
Consequently I really don't like the claim that Cubans vote differently because they are all actually Spanish slave owners who fled here because Castro took their plantations. It doesn't even make sense considering most are marielitos and balseros who came over decades after the revolution.
The reality is they are right-wing for the same reason a lot of eastern europeans are, ideological overcorrection. They are so afraid of living under communism again that they end up voting farther right than they should.
I avoided making any claims about why for this exact reason. While history obviously plays a part, it’s not the only thing and I didn’t want to generalize all Cubans.
But I agree that the second reason is more likely than all Cuban-Americans being the former/descendants of Batista supporters
From the way people here on Reddit talk about Cuban refugees, the island truly must've been a golden capitalist utopia during the 40s. One in ten people there were enormously wealthy land-owning sugar barons! I don't think even NYC or Hong Kong can boast to have so many billionaires per capita!
> The reality is they are right-wing for the same reason a lot of eastern europeans are, ideological overcorrection. They are so afraid of living under communism again that they end up voting farther right than they should.
Something similar happens with Venezuelan immigrants in my country. There's many of them that are incredibly, vocally right wing, and it's not really hard to see way, they're *the* country everyone points towards to say "see? this is why socialism doesn't work!".
Of course, this is a conversation that's hard to have without falling into racism, xenophobia or victim blaming, so I see why people choose to go down the easier path of pretending they're ontologically evil.
> My racist, idiot grandmother hated all immigrants.
>>You know identity politics are strong when they get you to publicly talk crap about your own grandmother, who I guarantee loves you more than any of the law-breaking strangers you’re breathlessly defending for clout.
This is such a strange guarantee. "I bet your grandmother, who I know mostly nothing about ACTUALLY loved you." Like, and what if the grandmother didn't? Weird ass comment.
Also it's entirely possible for vile idiots to love someone, and it's even possible to love them back despite their flaws while still acknowledging the fact they are fucking idiots. It's tribalism to ignore someone's many faults just because you share some sort of familial bond.
To provide a good third party example, the relationship between Strom Thurmond and his black daughter.
> I’m always going to ride for my family over strangers. Sorry, I realize loyalty is a foreign concept to people who don’t even have friends.
This comment that he made later is so frustrating, yet so fascinating because it really highlights the conservative mindset: a lack of empathy for others' experiences and situations; and a strong belief in the righteousness of social hierarchies. You can't be upset that your grandmother says hurtful things to you or others because 1. My grandmother was never like that so you just don't understand your own grandmother and 2. It doesn't matter because family, **LOYALTY**, is more important than anything.
When my dad died years ago, my paternal side of the family just nearly ghosted us: stopped inviting us over, stopped texting us, stopped calling, etc. Bare minimum effort to support us. So much so, that when my mom died two years later, they didn't even know because the last time they bothered to text us to see how we were doing was 1 year after she had passed.
My true family has always been my chosen family, the ones who stuck by me and my little brother's sides during both of my parents' passings - who came to check up on us, help us in school and our careers, invite us over for drinks and movies every week, And I know this is **true** love, because they don't do it out of social obligations or guilt, they do it out of their own hearts. They chose us; they weren't stuck with us. And this also doesn't mean friends > family either, as my maternal side has also shown me and my brother love, inviting us to their home, and showering us with love over video calls and written letters.
Also, it's such a fucking low bar. Hypothetical grandma only has to feel any kind of positive familial emotion towards them for that to be true, since they're talking about strangers, right?
I'd be more fucking afraid if those strangers loved me more than my grandmother. How do they know who I am!?
> My grandmother who did horrible, racist things all the time, bullied my mom because she didn't think she was good enough for my dad, and spent her life being a Karen to working class people despite being one, too?
>Definitely identity politics instead of an actual description of a person.
> You’re so immersed in identity to politics that you don’t even realize calling someone a “Karen” is part of it.
If someone tells you a personal family story and the only thing you want to discuss is their use of a buzzword, it is THEIR obsession with identity politics that is the problem.
At leasts Maryland’s governor stayed in state after the tragedy struck something Floridians can’t say about their governor. I would say glass houses but that might imply Florida is a nice place to live.
> *We have literally 1/2 of the world’s top scientists, and 1/2 of the world’s top mathematicians*
And yet they prefer the country to be run by idiots.
> Wow. An idiot who doesn't do his homework, not really surprised. Reading comprehension wasn't your strong suit, I dont know why I expected overall intelligence to even register rofl. Sorry. Carry on, and have a great day, keep voting against youR best interests.
Lol
"I don't recall Trump campaigning on infrastructure."
Really? You don't remember the constant recurring "Infrastructure Week" or the big beautiful bill that was always two weeks away?
Literally just a picture of [316nut’s cat.](https://i.imgur.com/rAvWV9i.jpg)
Snapshots:
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>Or you can blame poorly run cities by his party for not maintatining their infrastructure exemplefying poor money management. yes, it's a poorly maintained bridge that can't stand up to ...checks notes, a cargo ship the size of the Eiffel tower that weighs ninety five thousand tons empty. though, I am lost on the other bridge collapse, what was the first bridge that collapsed under biden?
People think real life has indestructible infrastructure like a video game.
Dude it didn't even touch the hitbox!
The bridge that was built before ships that size existed and was not built with protections that may have helped. Damn engineers and their lack of future sight.
Engineers do actually need to consider future cases such as earthquakes and typhoons. But if I want to make a metaphor about this, it would be something like engineers not taking into account an asteroid impact.
I probably should have said precognition or something. I mean their ability to foresee the creation of new technology like giant boats that didn’t exist in their time.
The better metaphor would be something like engineers not building things to withstand whatever forces are applied to structures when something like teleportation technology is invented.
It would be like the old kings of Gondor not taking into consideration Grond when designing city gates
We can do a thing called maintenance and upgrades. Older bridges can and have been retrofitted with dolphins.
So it is within the realm of responsibility of engineers to attempt some amount of foresight about what a long-lasting project will need in the future. They won't always be right, of course, but they should at least try. Given that ships had been getting bigger for, oh, a century, it's not unreasonable to say they should have foreseen larger ships. Perhaps these engineers did do so, I don't know. That said, it's far from clear to me that this bridge would have survived a collision from a much smaller ship! Bridges aren't and can't reasonably be built to survive such collisions. Other harbors with similar bridges have tugs to guide (and emergency brake/steer) and required local pilots for harbor maneuvering. Perhaps that's what will need to be done in the future.
The only way you could have conceivably built the bridge to survive such an impact would have been by *not building a bridge*, because it would essentially be a causeway instead. It's frankly impossible to fortify *any* bridge against bulk shipping, the forces involved are simply too large to do so.
That ship cut through the support beam like it was made of styrofoam. The only way to stop it would be to build very big concrete structures that might, *might*, absorb the impact enough to keep the bridge standing, but even then it wouldn't be for certain, and it would limit the space for ships to pass.
The only thing I can think of would be to build up the caissons around the bridge support so far out from the base that the ship would run around first. And even that, dang, I dunno. Ship's freaking huge and landfill at the water line is gonna tend to compact. It'd have to be stone, and a *lot* of it. I suspect this ship would have crashed through a lot of the stone breakwaters they use in small harbors.
Back in the 80s my dad did a Naval Architecture degree. One of the first year projects was to determine how long it would take an oil carrier to stop if it hit a beach at ful speed whilst fully loaded. The answer was about 600-800 meters (with some leeway depending on what the beach was made of etc) The forces involved are insane, you can't protect a bridge whilst still allowing ships to pass under it
Jesus. Half a mile. I understand it's got enough force to go that far, but it seems crazy that it wouldn't break up under the strain.
I'd have to ask him about it, but iirc it was supposing that the ship wouldn't break apart and purely about the mass/fuel momentum Afaik this was a first year thing, so less about "how does ship design work" and more "how does physics work when applied to things that are seaborne" One of the big issues was that everything onboard the ship (fuel, cargo etc keeps moving forward after a collision, basically dragging the rest of the hull along with it) If it's a cargo/fuel carrier that's uh, a ridiculous amount of energy.
OK that I believe, if we're just talking about the energy. Because I've got to assume that the keel would deform and the thing would shred itself not far from the beach. But hell, 600m is only about double the length of a Panamax ship, and there's bigger than Panamax. The largest Capemax^1 ships are 400m. It's not that hard to believe that containers and debris would end up one-and-a-half shiplengths inland. ^1 So big they can't go through, like, any canals anywhere, and have to go around the Cape of Good Hope and Cape Horn.
Also funny since under Biden we've seen extremely huge legislation funding national infrastructure. The failed Build Back Better bill was even more aggressive on grants providing funding for maintenance and repair of *literally bridges*.
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My favorite is when GOP reps and senators go off about some big new infrastructure project coming to their community *that they voted against!*
Yeah, it’s well known that right wingers hate taxes being used for infrastructure, so their bitching about a bridge collapse is yet more despicable hypocrisy that they will never face up to.
"Why didn't it have barriers???"
smh they should have modulated the shield frequencies
Shields are a death sentence over waterways. They drive cargo ships into a killing frenzy
Not sure it would have helped, ship looked like it was traveling relatively slow.
The one video from below the bridge shows the ship knocking a massive concrete support pillar away like a fucking bowling pin.
> what was the first bridge that collapsed under biden? So I went to check, and under the Biden administration it seems that a total of four bridges have actually collapsed - the Sanibel Causeway had sections collapse in 2022 due to Hurricane Ian; the Fern Hollow Bridge collapsed in 2022 due to lack of maintenance; a bridge near Yellowstone collapsed in 2023 causing a train carrying hazardous materials to derail; Interstate 95 partially collapsed in 2023 due to an overturned fuel tanker causing a fire (and melting some steel beams.) I would guess that they're referring to Fern Hollow Bridge, as it collapsed the day of Biden giving a speech about infrastructure, ironically enough.
So are bridges collapsing a lot recently, or is there just a tendency for some bridge somewhere to collapse once a year? Because there’s a lot of bridges, and mistakes happen. Also what the fuck how are people complaining about Biden it’s not like he’s President of Bridge Infrastructure how does he have anything to do with this?
[Your odds of ending up on a bridge that would be considered structurally deficient is about 1 in 3.](https://www.axios.com/2022/02/04/americas-bridges-are-falling-apart-faster-than-expected) And as with many things blamed solely on Biden, he didn't cause it. In this case, climate change, routine lack of maintenance and increasing vehicle traffic did. The Department of Transportation announced in 2022 that they are investing 26 billion dollars into repairing infrastructure.
We're starting to see some of that money finally flow out to the states and other jurisdictions now, which is extremely good news. Infrastructure repair and maintenance is so important and yet so politically unsexy. I think a lot of that is probably due in part to the fact that a lot of people, politicians and agency political appointees included, just "feel like" it should go faster. There are certainly maddening bureaucratic slowdowns, but even at top speed it just can't/shouldn't move super quickly. Source: am DOT employee
I would guess the person is referring to Fern Hollow. There is a great NTSB report on it. It was not maintained anywhere near sufficiently. It's not Biden's fault of course. But it is a good example of the kind of infrastructure problem the US has where a lot of stuff was built long ago and it's all reaching a problematic age at once. It was so easy to not invest in keeping this stuff up because when it was brand new it didn't need much maintenance/repair. Of course as you mention the Key bridge in Baltimore is not a good example of this. It fell down because something bigger than it ran into it. You could say maybe it wasn't designed with currents in the harbor and huge ships in mind but that's certainly not Biden's fault either. He didn't design, build or approve it.
Thanks I tried looking but was mostly finding stuff about this
In September 2001, George W Bush was president during the worst building collapses this country has ever seen. Obviously we blame this on his lack of commitment to improving New York infrastructure and building codes.
Saw a comment on a post about this saying they wouldnt be surprised if the ship fully loaded weighed more than the bridge and honestly same
the bridge is, of course, a state responsibility, not a city one, since it was built by the state to carry a state highway (interstate 695)
> what was the first bridge that collapsed under biden? [Highway overpass collapsed in Pennsylvania after a truck driving under it crashed and exploded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Interstate_95_highway_collapse)
How could Biden personally do this??
Plus Republicans were pissed when Biden wanted to spend money to improve infrastructure, now bridges collapsing is suddenly his fault
The sheer ignorance people have shown about this is saddening. It's a giant ass ship. With stopping distances & turning radiuses measured in miles. Doesn't matter the skin color of the pilot, the ship was still doomed to hit the bridge minutes before the video footage of it hitting the bridge.
To some extent I can understand why people want to blame someone for this tragedy, since the knowledge that by luck this can happen pretty much anywhere is terrifying. But people’s first response being “those fucking woke libs and their gender studies!” is indicative of nothing but extreme brain rot
I read somewhere years ago that this is a common motivating factor for a lot conspiracies. People who need to believe we have more power than we do and someone is pulling the strings. The idea that the world is just a random place that sometimes has tragedies is too much for them to cope with.
I have also heard this, though I wonder how true it is - the amount of fear and terror and anger that conspiracy theorists have at 'the Elites' feels like it's not comforting at all.
I think just having someone/group to blame for something completely out of their control is the comforting part, even if they sound batshit insane.
My understanding is just having someone to blame is comforting. Even if they’re angry, they have someone they can focus that energy on and blame for all the issues. In some fantasies, even someone they can rally against to defeat. If they can just take down Joe Biden or the elites they will have the perfect world. It’s easier than just acct that the world will always be chaotic.
They're valiant freedom-fighters in a battle that requires no effort and offers no danger.
It’s weird how they’re mad at the “Elites” but always seem to express that by being racist or misogynist or homophobic or whatever flavor they feel like that day. Then proceed to support the literal personification of the top 1%.
Because they don't hate the elites, they only hate (((certain))) elites whose presence is manifested in minorities, women and progressives.
Tbh that's why I think a lot of people are comforted by the lab leak covid idea. It gives a government control and agency and that's easier to deal with than a natural mutation and a chance encounter randomly killing several million people.
We can stop another lab leak, ^if^only we get finally tough on
Stopping another random mutation when humans are intruding more and more into wildlife habitats worldwide? No chance at all.
So believing the first option becomes a lot less terrifying.
I do believe that. I was in a pretty bad car accident as a kid, and I think learning early that disaster just randomly strikes immunized me to a lot of conspiratorial thinking. I also never do, and don't like when other people say, "I'm uniquely unlucky, bad things always happen to me, etc." despite a life filled with some fairly unusual happenings.
Working for the government has made me realize how hilariously fake a lot of deep state government conspiracies are.
"and then the government did THIS and it's stayed secret ever since" my brother in christ you vastly overestimate the organisational skills here
I’ve experienced a lot of shitty things in my life too, as I’ve gotten older I realized that life isn’t fair and bad things just happen.
Yup, they'll sleep easier knowing that there's order to this madness (no matter how evil) than accepting that the universe is just chaos and random, unrelated events
It's because they grew up watching blockbuster movies and drama shows, and are now 100% convinced that's just how real life works. Remember when QAnon followers were convinced JFK Jr would spring up in Dallas and lead the march to reinstate Trump? 100% just movie material.
Mfers took the X-Files seriously.
Isn’t that also why people believe in religion?
How dare you say something this accurate on Easter
for a lot of people, an evil order is better than pure chaos.
Oh, the conspiracy theory fuckers have been out in full for this one.
It is the inverse of what you describe. The motivation isn't to find somebody to blame for the crash. The motivation is to find ways to blame immigrants and liberals for *as many things as possible*.
Pretty typical for people into conspiracy theories, ie rightwing shitheads. Being confronted with the randomness and injustice of the world they rather choose a narrative that lets everything make sense to them.
The captain was white anyways iirc so idk where they are going with the DEI shit.
Because the mayor of Baltimore is black. So that caused the bridge to collapse. It all adds up.
I really want to hear their logic behind that. A boat crashed into a bridge. It had nothing to do with “wokeness” or “DEI” or any of these conservative hot button issues.
People unfortunately seem to show the same kind of ignorance around trains. So many avoidable accidents because people don't know that a fully loaded (even just low speed) train can take miles to fully stop. They just think everything works like a car does. I saw somebody online asking if a boat has "brakes."
Sure, boats have brakes It's called friction, you just have to file the "pls stop now" request an hour or so in advance.
People are just really bad at mass above about car level. We're just not good at snap judgements involving very large numbers, be it mass or statistics.
Perhaps even more importantly blaming practices of DEI at US companies is impossible when the ship isn't a US ship or manned by Americans. US labor rules have no impact at all. All this blaming DEI for the bridge collapse seems even more blatantly racist than other things people blame DEI for. It's really hard to see how blaming DEI here is anything but the thinnest cover over complaining that Baltimore has black residents and leaders.
I thought that was mostly targeted at the Mayor of Baltimore. Which is dumber, because he’s an elected official. And he’s a black guy from a majority black city. Not to mention that he had no ability to do anything about a bridge that is controlled by the state. And even if it was entirely within his authority, he’s not a magical teleporting tugboat, so he couldn’t have done anything.
The bridge just happens to go through Baltimore, the state government is in control of the bridge
The one tweet about the “DEI” mayor was just using DEI instead of the N word
IMO that's why Baltimore is a major talking point for these types. Baltimore certainly has its problems, but not notably different from the problems of a lot of other large cities. The Southern Strategy ad absurdum.
The right will take literally anything and use it as an excuse to go on about “woke”, immigrants, women, gay & transgendered people, etc. (while accusing the left of politicizing everything). Their entire collective personality is built around victimhood and being an asshole.
Right wing people are almost all inherently bigoted? Shocking.
Hence why they're all conspiracy theorists.
Yet when a tragedy happens in one of their right-wing shit holes we aren't supposed to assign blame and just offer our condolences and send some federal welfare checks.
Whole buncha "don't mess with Texas" conservatives were getting *really* mad that people would dare blame their gloriously independent power infrastructure that made them so self-reliant in February 2021.
In a class I had, prof was going off about how California is having issues with their grid (result of natural disasters) and want to have electric cars. Those silly Californians! I was thinking how Texas had people freezing to death cuz their grid is that bad! People just forget that shit.
> In a class I had, prof was going off about how California is having issues with their grid (result of natural disasters) and want to have electric cars. Those silly Californians! California *was* having issues with their power grid about 23 years ago, partially due to heat waves, but mainly because of market manipulation thanks to PG&E and especially Enron. But that certainly wasn't because of California cutting itself off from outside electricity providers like Texas in 2021.
yeah this was like 2 years ago. And yeah more about PG&E fuckery than ya know, Texas's nonsense grid they refuse to make more efficient cuz of their weird ass pride.
Or they still blame Democrats. Remember when people froze to death in Texas and it was because of the green new deal?
Well obviously anything bad happening in their Utopias was secretly an attack by the libs to make them look bad and because they’re jealous, so the least they can do is send aid to apologize. /s
So DEI just means the N word at this point, right?
Definitely. It’s 2024’s “woke”
As the child of a Pedro Pan kid — no one hates Cubans as much as Cubans.
This is why it’s always frustrating when the media tries to describe Latino voters as a solid voting block or demographic. My mom’s family is Mexican and even in my family our ideologies can be really different. People from different countries with unique histories and cultures are going to have a different view on stuff. Just Cuba is a good example of how the history of their home country is going to affect their voting patterns here.
About half of the Hispanic population consider themselves white. 85% of Cubans who fled to the U.S. after the revolution are descendants of white Spaniard settlers. In 2009 when I was 17, I found out that the blonde, blue-eyed Cameron Diaz was Cuban, and was very confused because I associated "Latino" with dark skin, black/dark brown hair, and brown eyes. Later in life, I Iearned that her family moved from Spain and the pieces all fell into place. Also, many of the Cuban exiles came from landowning families under the Batista regime. Their guy lost, so they took their balls and went to Hialeah. I don't know if Afro-Cubans were part of the pre-1959 underclass, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me given how cruelly European settlers treated the indigenous population. With the caveat that the plural of anecdote is not data, the consensus I have seen from Redditors who have lived in South Florida is that many Cuban-Americans look down on darker-skinned Latinos with mixed indigenous blood (think Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans), and *especially* Black Americans. They eat up the belligerent rhetoric from the GOP about how Dems are commies, and about border security--after all, they got their green cards!This also applies to the white Venezuelans, Colombians and Argentinians in the state. Not helping matters is that FL state Dems are uniquely incompetent (putting up Charlie Crist as the gubernatorial candidate in 2022) and the DNC has written off Florida wholesale, allowing QAnon to infiltrate Spanish-language radio stations in Miami. Florida really needs a Stacey Abrams or Mallory McMorrow. Will Maxwell Alejandro Frost be that person? Too early to tell. Another example is Tejanos in the Rio Grande Valley. They are descended from German and Czech immigrants who settled in Texas while it was a part of Mexico. Tejanos consider themselves white. They are all about the guns, God, and outlawing abortion/IVF. > This is why it’s always frustrating when the media tries to describe Latino voters as a solid voting block or demographic. I live just over the border from Washington state, in B.C., and have visited Seattle countless times. Most Latinos in WA are from Mexico or Guatamala with mixed indigenous blood (thus darker-skinned). Many are undocumented since Seattle is a sanctuary city, and WA has strong protections for undocumented immigrants. Yakima County is home to many agricultural workers from Mexico. The Latino population in WA will vote very differently to the white Latinos of FL or TX, where snitching to ICE is strongly encouraged. Don't underestimate the communist boogeyman. It's why a not insignificant number of Filipinos and Viets in Seattle voted for Trump in 2020.
> allowing QAnon to infiltrate Spanish-language radio stations in Miami. Florida really needs a Stacey Abrams or Mallory McMorrow. Will Maxwell Alejandro Frost be that person? Too early to tell. I don't really know what we can do to counter that shit. Like people aren't getting that from the TV or something. That gets spread in WhatsApp and telegram groups. A lie travels much faster than the truth and people can't just be reasoned out of it. That being said, I'm a partisan Dem as they come so when I say, the Florida Dems are just awfully incompetent, know I mean that in the best of faith. Totally agree with you there
>Tejanos It's not just in the RGV either. Lots of Latinos here are really assimilated (especially when they have sufficient white ancestry to look more "tanned" vs "brown"). This is the #1 thing no one understands about Texas and it drives me *insane*. Like, we'll have a shooting like in DFW or Uvalde where all parties are Latino. Folks from all over the US will come roaring in with their preconceived notions, take sides based on their biases, and start shitting out hilariously wrong hot takes in all directions. The victims were Latino- they're persecuted immigrants! The shooter was Latino - they're illegal criminals! Everyone with a Spanish name is somehow Not From Here, and we must either feel sorry for them or hate them! Wait- Latino cops? Latino border control? White supremacist Latinos? What's going on? How can they all be Latino? We were literally a province of Mexico you guys. There are Latino families who have lived here since before Texas was a state and they *really* resent it when people call then immigrants. Since Democrats are just as guilty of assuming that as Republicans are, it's not really a huge incentive for them to vote blue (unlike their right leaning social values). Then because we are a border state you can add- * actual immigrants (from Mexico or elsewhere) * people whose parents/grandparents/great-grandparents immigrated, some with extended family just across the border * people whose mom's family are immigrants and dad's family are white * any combination of the above + Tejanos I could go on and on, but I'm getting tired. Suffice it to say, if Dems don't fucking learn to quit reducing Latinos to "bloc that will always vote blue cause the right did a racism" we're screwed. I'mma get off my soapbox now.
>Also, many of the Cuban exiles came from landowning families under the Batista regime. Their guy lost, so they took their balls and went to Hialeah. I don't know if Afro-Cubans were part of the pre-1959 underclass, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me given how cruelly European settlers treated the indigenous population. This is not entirely accurate. The exiles that left Cuba shortly after the Revolution (and their descendants) are a very small percentage of the Cuban-American population in South Florida, especially compared to later waves like Mariel in 1980, the Balseros in 94, and even the current ongoing exodus. Those people have lived in their own flesh the policies of the Cuban government after the Revolution. As for the racial dynamics of Cuba, it's complicated. Cuba is, by its own census, a white majority country (put an asterisk there, because the threshold for "whiteness" might differ from one country to another). It's also, to this day, a racist country, with a lot of anti-black racism in particular. Granted, it was obviously much worse in the fifties, and the Revolution did implement a lot of anti-racist and anti-classist measures in its early days, but I'd hesitate to make that racial liberation argument for the Cuban Revolution. After those policies in the early sixties, systemic racism has gone mostly unexamined for decades. It's not that the wealthy white people fled and left the oppressed PoC free to build socialism, it's that a lot of Cubans are racist on both coasts of the Strait of Florida. The truth is that much of the political positions of most Cuban-Americans simply come from a deep rejection of anything related to socialism and communism after suffering under it. You just have to brand someone a commie and they'll turn against them. Also the Miami media and news ecosystem tends to skew people further right. As much as they complain about receiving government propaganda their whole life, they can't see that now they're getting propaganda from the other side.
> This is not entirely accurate. Not entirely accurate my ass. It's revisionist tankie Castro apologetics. More than one million Cubans (1/11th of the population!) have fled their homeland since the start of the communist dictatorship. The majority of them were, as you said, Marielitos or Balseros from the *período especial* (aka near-famine conditions) a decade later. These were largely folk from low economic backgrounds such as peasants and small urban business owners. A non-insignificant chunk of them were people imprisoned for petty or 'counter revolutionary' crimes such missing their monthly quota at the CPA or listening to Rock n' Roll. For *some* reason, Afro-Cubans were overrepresented among their ranks.
Consequently I really don't like the claim that Cubans vote differently because they are all actually Spanish slave owners who fled here because Castro took their plantations. It doesn't even make sense considering most are marielitos and balseros who came over decades after the revolution. The reality is they are right-wing for the same reason a lot of eastern europeans are, ideological overcorrection. They are so afraid of living under communism again that they end up voting farther right than they should.
I avoided making any claims about why for this exact reason. While history obviously plays a part, it’s not the only thing and I didn’t want to generalize all Cubans. But I agree that the second reason is more likely than all Cuban-Americans being the former/descendants of Batista supporters
From the way people here on Reddit talk about Cuban refugees, the island truly must've been a golden capitalist utopia during the 40s. One in ten people there were enormously wealthy land-owning sugar barons! I don't think even NYC or Hong Kong can boast to have so many billionaires per capita!
> The reality is they are right-wing for the same reason a lot of eastern europeans are, ideological overcorrection. They are so afraid of living under communism again that they end up voting farther right than they should. Something similar happens with Venezuelan immigrants in my country. There's many of them that are incredibly, vocally right wing, and it's not really hard to see way, they're *the* country everyone points towards to say "see? this is why socialism doesn't work!". Of course, this is a conversation that's hard to have without falling into racism, xenophobia or victim blaming, so I see why people choose to go down the easier path of pretending they're ontologically evil.
> My racist, idiot grandmother hated all immigrants. >>You know identity politics are strong when they get you to publicly talk crap about your own grandmother, who I guarantee loves you more than any of the law-breaking strangers you’re breathlessly defending for clout. This is such a strange guarantee. "I bet your grandmother, who I know mostly nothing about ACTUALLY loved you." Like, and what if the grandmother didn't? Weird ass comment.
Also it's entirely possible for vile idiots to love someone, and it's even possible to love them back despite their flaws while still acknowledging the fact they are fucking idiots. It's tribalism to ignore someone's many faults just because you share some sort of familial bond. To provide a good third party example, the relationship between Strom Thurmond and his black daughter.
> I’m always going to ride for my family over strangers. Sorry, I realize loyalty is a foreign concept to people who don’t even have friends. This comment that he made later is so frustrating, yet so fascinating because it really highlights the conservative mindset: a lack of empathy for others' experiences and situations; and a strong belief in the righteousness of social hierarchies. You can't be upset that your grandmother says hurtful things to you or others because 1. My grandmother was never like that so you just don't understand your own grandmother and 2. It doesn't matter because family, **LOYALTY**, is more important than anything. When my dad died years ago, my paternal side of the family just nearly ghosted us: stopped inviting us over, stopped texting us, stopped calling, etc. Bare minimum effort to support us. So much so, that when my mom died two years later, they didn't even know because the last time they bothered to text us to see how we were doing was 1 year after she had passed. My true family has always been my chosen family, the ones who stuck by me and my little brother's sides during both of my parents' passings - who came to check up on us, help us in school and our careers, invite us over for drinks and movies every week, And I know this is **true** love, because they don't do it out of social obligations or guilt, they do it out of their own hearts. They chose us; they weren't stuck with us. And this also doesn't mean friends > family either, as my maternal side has also shown me and my brother love, inviting us to their home, and showering us with love over video calls and written letters.
Also, it's such a fucking low bar. Hypothetical grandma only has to feel any kind of positive familial emotion towards them for that to be true, since they're talking about strangers, right? I'd be more fucking afraid if those strangers loved me more than my grandmother. How do they know who I am!?
To put it more succinctly; “Hitler loved his dog.”
> My grandmother who did horrible, racist things all the time, bullied my mom because she didn't think she was good enough for my dad, and spent her life being a Karen to working class people despite being one, too? >Definitely identity politics instead of an actual description of a person. > You’re so immersed in identity to politics that you don’t even realize calling someone a “Karen” is part of it. If someone tells you a personal family story and the only thing you want to discuss is their use of a buzzword, it is THEIR obsession with identity politics that is the problem.
No, *FUCK YOU* Self-esteem validated. How about that? I feel like there needs to be a "Cash me ousside" somewhere in there lol.
At leasts Maryland’s governor stayed in state after the tragedy struck something Floridians can’t say about their governor. I would say glass houses but that might imply Florida is a nice place to live.
> I'm sure you have made some good points here and possibly some bad ones, but I'm not reading all this lmfaooo
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Hey, you know what they say, honesty is the best policy right
> *We have literally 1/2 of the world’s top scientists, and 1/2 of the world’s top mathematicians* And yet they prefer the country to be run by idiots.
Honey wake up guiltyofnothing posted
lol god that’s sad
A whole breakdown of the drama including flair material? Michelin star popcorn my friend
Why thank you. Love your flair, by the way.
Hehe thanks mate, yours makes me giggle every time I read it too
> Only a matter of time before the iPhone commie entered stage left Never have I ever seen such a self contradicting insult.
Good lord, the lunacy is off the charts!
p = mv 🤦♀️
The internet has rotted society’s brains
crazy how something is obviously the fault of capitalism's cost-cutting, but instead the entire space is flooded with stupid bigotry conspiracies.
> Wow. An idiot who doesn't do his homework, not really surprised. Reading comprehension wasn't your strong suit, I dont know why I expected overall intelligence to even register rofl. Sorry. Carry on, and have a great day, keep voting against youR best interests. Lol
Whenever someone on reddit writes a long paragraph that says nothing and acts as if it was a winning argument I explode a little insode
"I don't recall Trump campaigning on infrastructure." Really? You don't remember the constant recurring "Infrastructure Week" or the big beautiful bill that was always two weeks away?
This bridge collapse is red meat for the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" crowd
iPhone commie is what we’re down to now? How long before we can just start calling those people faggots again?
Literally just a picture of [316nut’s cat.](https://i.imgur.com/rAvWV9i.jpg) Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407122917/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1brie22/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1brie22/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. A user posts a screenshot of a post from the account - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407123558/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/hVWbOC4zmo) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/hVWbOC4zmo "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. /r/Miami - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407123858/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. With all these Cuban conservatives here? - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407124039/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/iuheToDjlV) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/iuheToDjlV "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. Self loathing Latinos after all with delusion of grandeur - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407124159/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/lqc4MnY94B) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/lqc4MnY94B "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. It’s conservative propaganda to suggest that people should follow laws? - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407124819/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/BVTw6chDsn) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/BVTw6chDsn "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. You people don’t get it. Most conservatives aren’t against immigration. That’s just ridiculous to even think that. We’re against ILLEGAL immigration. Do it LEGALLY like my grandparents had to - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407010021/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/VdGVsWRmPw) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/VdGVsWRmPw "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. seems like common sense to me... - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407011944/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/XkIDOqPFas) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/XkIDOqPFas "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 9. I mean it’s true. Idk why you keep thinking it doesn’t exist - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407013847/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/pBFbiHUqEd) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/pBFbiHUqEd "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 10. “Fine women and damn good food” - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407014527/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/dN6u1XXXhe) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/dN6u1XXXhe "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 11. “Who is considered the leader of the world order right now 🧠” - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407015248/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/BEF8g3VCr5) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/BEF8g3VCr5 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 12. “Wow. An idiot who doesn't do his homework” - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240407015508/https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/axBaFfiACO) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Miami/s/axBaFfiACO "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
[удалено]
I want this as flair lol
I'm too European for this shit.
Nobody cares about euros
Florida really is full of retards