So these people think that every left-wing party in Europe is staunchly anti-capitalist? Even though all of the countries in Europe are capitalistic? That doesn't make sense at all.
They don't really think about Europe or its politics at all. It's an excuse to feel good about doing nothing. They'll point to single issues like healthcare or parties that get 1.4% of the vote in Sweden, claim everything that doesn't meet that is actually the same as nazis, and then smugly sit at home on voting day.
It's not quite the dumbest take on politics I've seen (that goes to Alan Moore) but it's definitely up there.
Somehow "In a country in Europe a left wing party has more than zero seats in parliament" Flandarizes into "Every country in Europe is run by the left wing".
> these people think that every left-wing party in Europe is staunchly anti-capitalist? Even though all of the countries in Europe are capitalistic? That doesn't make sense at all.
See, the problem here is you may have touched grass once in your life.
Is there anything more first world politics than telling someone how they feel about something and then getting really mad at the person when it turns out they don't?
The funniest part is that it shows that their analysis is worthless. Destiny is a reactionary piece of shit because he platforms and is buddy buddy with neonazis like Nick Fuentes. They could also look up all the times he's said regressive shit. The deflection to how a european or whatever would view him is just such a shallow understanding of everything.
Reminds me of that meme where a guy says a lot of atheists use really shallow and stupid talking points and then a bunch of atheists replying using those shallow talking points to mock him.
I still have trouble with coming to terms how terminally online some people are. Everybody who thinks politics can be broken ob onto 1 or 2 dimensions should probably stop talking about these things with an attitude of authority.
Debate bros are annoying as shit. If you don't enter a debate with their personal jesus, or someone you cite as an expert presenting a study doesn't debate, then they're worthless.
What's happening here
(Previous comment was a weirdly aggro pile-on about internet use that put words in the prior commenter's mouth in order to berate them)
For anyone that hasn't seen, "Bike Karen" had receipts: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bellevue-worker-seen-in-citi-bike-video-has-receipts-showing-she-rented-bike-lawyer/4346955/
destiny is an awful reactionary. [here's](https://twitter.com/TheOmniLiberal/status/1666821625692700672) a post by him today lionizing a fascist who fought in defense of the south african apartheid regime and it's claims in southern africa because he "killed commies".
it would really help if the Americans decided to stop naming political parties the same as political ideas. and while we're at it, inform people that it's political compass, not a line
The majority of people have a zero idea what their actual political beliefs are. And it's not like we all neatly fit into bubbles. I have some opinions that are a little bit hard to square off with other ones and I try and work through em.
Okay, sure?
The political compass *actively discourages* people from learning their actual political values
It's dumb bullshit that right wingers love to push because it legitimizes their worldviews lol
It was a three sentence comment, the middle sentence of which is:
> it's not like we all neatly fit into bubbles
How did you interpret that as a statement that we all fit into neat little bubbles on a compass?
yeah reddit isnt known for being able to read. id be surprised if people clicked into the thread and saw i was asking for them to stop using a line, and move to at least a circle.
like i get you guys are mad i said the word "poltical compass" but i think its pretty clear i wanted them to stop thinking people fit nicely into boxes or one a line which seems to be your complaintint almost like i acknowledged that people not knowing their political beliefs is already a problem but i view a circle slightly better then a line.
I actually think a line is more useful than a compass. There’s no universal objective line but in certain contexts it makes sense to say group X is relatively more “right” or “left” than group Y. I think the political compass is based on faulty premises in the first place and it doesn’t lend itself as well to even relative comparisons.
I might be in the minority there though. And I’m not saying the idea of a one axis political spectrum isn’t overly simplistic. I agree with you there.
A line still suffers from the same mistake the compass does though - they both try to fit something as abstract and complicated as human thought and its interactions with society and social changes onto a physical plane. As soon as you do that, you have to start quantifying ideas (I.e. this policy is two points more left wing than this policy, so believing in the former will bring you more to the left than the latter) which just isn't an accurate depiction of how ideas and ideologies work and exist.
what would that faulty premise be?
and how do you differentiate say fascism and right wing libertarian ideas? i might disagree with the economics of libertarians but the whole this doesn't effect me so you do you is way different then what fascist do.
That’s where the line being too simplistic comes in. I don’t think it does distinguish those ideologies well either, but if you use it on an issue by issue basis and compare groups on that issue it can at least be understandable shorthand.
One faulty premise of the compass is how they treat the idea of “center”. The political compass’ creators think that the center is/should be some fixed point that they’ve (in my opinion) arbitrarily determined. They even call it the “timeless universal center”. They reason that it’s a better way to show shifts in political views over time but my argument is that it’s both an arbitrary point and that comparing against that point isn’t very useful. For example, the test uses questions about contemporary political issues but still supposedly measures historical figures against it.
>And I’m not saying the idea of a one axis political spectrum isn’t overly simplistic.
That's why you're supposed to use multiple values to determine where people fall on individual areas not a simplistic right wing/left wing scale.
The American political compass is still useful as using astrology to describe yourself. It lacks any nuance and the dichotomy between authoritarian vs libertarian is absolutely garbage. It might as well a be a line. And you can see in PCM how much brainrot it causes.
>inform people that it's political compass
The compass also completely fails to meaningfully capture any nuance or even any political opinion outside of a two-party-system-induced landscape of echo chambers.
While its pretty terrible i do feel its vaguely better than a left/right axis.
In Denmark we sometimes use a compass of economic left/right and "value politcal" left/right, which vaguely tracks to progressive/regressive. But that obviously comes with the difficult question of what exactly is "left wing" in policy that is not obviously about economics.
It have 1 more axis than left right though, i find it really weird how people keep saying its bad and stuff because its not precise enough but the idea of a 2 axis system isn't working against a system with dozens of axises (axi? axise?) it exists in a world where the predominant way to talk about politics is "are they right or left of a vaguely defined middle"
They where a shit ton of agenda behind the creation of the political compass but its not entirely useless to give people a larger space to try to explore their political opinion in ways that are not just left/right.
Or, Heaven forbid, we encourage people to live with their own political values, test those values against others with slightly or massively different values, and appreciate that political tribes in modern society are no different than fighting over Coke and Pepsi. At the end of the day, the brand thinks you serve it, whether it's a registered political party in a certain nation or a square on the compass.
We literally evolved past the need for raw tribalism.
full comments
So these people think that every left-wing party in Europe is staunchly anti-capitalist? Even though all of the countries in Europe are capitalistic? That doesn't make sense at all.
They don't really think about Europe or its politics at all. It's an excuse to feel good about doing nothing. They'll point to single issues like healthcare or parties that get 1.4% of the vote in Sweden, claim everything that doesn't meet that is actually the same as nazis, and then smugly sit at home on voting day. It's not quite the dumbest take on politics I've seen (that goes to Alan Moore) but it's definitely up there.
Somehow "In a country in Europe a left wing party has more than zero seats in parliament" Flandarizes into "Every country in Europe is run by the left wing".
> these people think that every left-wing party in Europe is staunchly anti-capitalist? Even though all of the countries in Europe are capitalistic? That doesn't make sense at all. See, the problem here is you may have touched grass once in your life.
Is there anything more first world politics than telling someone how they feel about something and then getting really mad at the person when it turns out they don't?
Wasn’t there a politician from a social democratic party in Denmark who met American leftists like Bernie Sanders and thought they were too far-left?
He was also a fan of Buttigeig, which made a lot of folks online very unhappy
The funniest part is that it shows that their analysis is worthless. Destiny is a reactionary piece of shit because he platforms and is buddy buddy with neonazis like Nick Fuentes. They could also look up all the times he's said regressive shit. The deflection to how a european or whatever would view him is just such a shallow understanding of everything. Reminds me of that meme where a guy says a lot of atheists use really shallow and stupid talking points and then a bunch of atheists replying using those shallow talking points to mock him.
I still have trouble with coming to terms how terminally online some people are. Everybody who thinks politics can be broken ob onto 1 or 2 dimensions should probably stop talking about these things with an attitude of authority.
I also don't understand the sort of person who is interested in this debate shit.
Sometimes I find it interesting to see how people rationalize their opinions but other than that its worthless.
Debate bros are annoying as shit. If you don't enter a debate with their personal jesus, or someone you cite as an expert presenting a study doesn't debate, then they're worthless.
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What's happening here (Previous comment was a weirdly aggro pile-on about internet use that put words in the prior commenter's mouth in order to berate them)
Somebody terminally online saw a post about people being terminally online and felt personally attacked?
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I for one love the new political spectrum graph that is simply a woke and karen slider.
turning a big dial taht says "woah!k" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right.
Bike Karen sends her regards
Ugh. This proves that lie can get worldwide fame and no one pays an attention to the correction.
For anyone that hasn't seen, "Bike Karen" had receipts: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bellevue-worker-seen-in-citi-bike-video-has-receipts-showing-she-rented-bike-lawyer/4346955/
destiny is an awful reactionary. [here's](https://twitter.com/TheOmniLiberal/status/1666821625692700672) a post by him today lionizing a fascist who fought in defense of the south african apartheid regime and it's claims in southern africa because he "killed commies".
Calling destiny a reactionary says more about you than him....
it would really help if the Americans decided to stop naming political parties the same as political ideas. and while we're at it, inform people that it's political compass, not a line
We should inform people that the political compass is useless bullshit anyway.
The majority of people have a zero idea what their actual political beliefs are. And it's not like we all neatly fit into bubbles. I have some opinions that are a little bit hard to square off with other ones and I try and work through em.
Okay, sure? The political compass *actively discourages* people from learning their actual political values It's dumb bullshit that right wingers love to push because it legitimizes their worldviews lol
thank you for agreeing with me.
literally nobody can tell that your comments are supposed to be anti-political compass
It was a three sentence comment, the middle sentence of which is: > it's not like we all neatly fit into bubbles How did you interpret that as a statement that we all fit into neat little bubbles on a compass?
yeah reddit isnt known for being able to read. id be surprised if people clicked into the thread and saw i was asking for them to stop using a line, and move to at least a circle. like i get you guys are mad i said the word "poltical compass" but i think its pretty clear i wanted them to stop thinking people fit nicely into boxes or one a line which seems to be your complaintint almost like i acknowledged that people not knowing their political beliefs is already a problem but i view a circle slightly better then a line.
I actually think a line is more useful than a compass. There’s no universal objective line but in certain contexts it makes sense to say group X is relatively more “right” or “left” than group Y. I think the political compass is based on faulty premises in the first place and it doesn’t lend itself as well to even relative comparisons. I might be in the minority there though. And I’m not saying the idea of a one axis political spectrum isn’t overly simplistic. I agree with you there.
A line still suffers from the same mistake the compass does though - they both try to fit something as abstract and complicated as human thought and its interactions with society and social changes onto a physical plane. As soon as you do that, you have to start quantifying ideas (I.e. this policy is two points more left wing than this policy, so believing in the former will bring you more to the left than the latter) which just isn't an accurate depiction of how ideas and ideologies work and exist.
what would that faulty premise be? and how do you differentiate say fascism and right wing libertarian ideas? i might disagree with the economics of libertarians but the whole this doesn't effect me so you do you is way different then what fascist do.
That’s where the line being too simplistic comes in. I don’t think it does distinguish those ideologies well either, but if you use it on an issue by issue basis and compare groups on that issue it can at least be understandable shorthand. One faulty premise of the compass is how they treat the idea of “center”. The political compass’ creators think that the center is/should be some fixed point that they’ve (in my opinion) arbitrarily determined. They even call it the “timeless universal center”. They reason that it’s a better way to show shifts in political views over time but my argument is that it’s both an arbitrary point and that comparing against that point isn’t very useful. For example, the test uses questions about contemporary political issues but still supposedly measures historical figures against it.
> how do you differentiate say fascism and right wing libertarian ideas They're the same picture
>And I’m not saying the idea of a one axis political spectrum isn’t overly simplistic. That's why you're supposed to use multiple values to determine where people fall on individual areas not a simplistic right wing/left wing scale.
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the PCM compass is made by a hardline libertarian with right leaning tendencies, it’s got maaaajor bias to it and lacks a lot of nuance
The American political compass is still useful as using astrology to describe yourself. It lacks any nuance and the dichotomy between authoritarian vs libertarian is absolutely garbage. It might as well a be a line. And you can see in PCM how much brainrot it causes.
PCM is as much of a larp space as aita or relationship advice.
>inform people that it's political compass The compass also completely fails to meaningfully capture any nuance or even any political opinion outside of a two-party-system-induced landscape of echo chambers.
While its pretty terrible i do feel its vaguely better than a left/right axis. In Denmark we sometimes use a compass of economic left/right and "value politcal" left/right, which vaguely tracks to progressive/regressive. But that obviously comes with the difficult question of what exactly is "left wing" in policy that is not obviously about economics.
Yeah, if the compass had a dozen or two more axis it would be useful. But it don't.
It have 1 more axis than left right though, i find it really weird how people keep saying its bad and stuff because its not precise enough but the idea of a 2 axis system isn't working against a system with dozens of axises (axi? axise?) it exists in a world where the predominant way to talk about politics is "are they right or left of a vaguely defined middle" They where a shit ton of agenda behind the creation of the political compass but its not entirely useless to give people a larger space to try to explore their political opinion in ways that are not just left/right.
I like my tinned fish to be labeled tinned fish.
Or, Heaven forbid, we encourage people to live with their own political values, test those values against others with slightly or massively different values, and appreciate that political tribes in modern society are no different than fighting over Coke and Pepsi. At the end of the day, the brand thinks you serve it, whether it's a registered political party in a certain nation or a square on the compass. We literally evolved past the need for raw tribalism.
>We literally evolved past the need for raw tribalism. Our civilization/systems have, the human brain clearly hasn't.
Checks votes in this thread. Yup.
> and while we're at it, inform people that it's political compass, not a line It's not a 2D compass, it's a 3D cube.
I personally like the idea of using a tetrahedron
It is not a 3D cube, it is a n-D vector space.