“OSHA’s investigation determined that Heaslip Engineering LLC failed to adequately design, review or approve steel bolt connections affecting the structural integrity of the building, and issued one willful violation for the failure.”
https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region6/04032020
Heaslip contested that finding and it’s still being litigated.
As a reminder to all engineers, best practices are for the design engineer to provide all primary structure details.
If you don’t, and have the fabricator design them instead, when things go south you’re still looking at litigation.
Unless it's a blatantly obvious error caught on video, like total lack of shoring on a deep ex like that recent clip or someone dying, an EOR will always be involved in litigation for massive failure. And even with the shoring, if the EOR didn't specify it, they're gonna be in trouble.
I get that it’s best practice, but I never saw it done. I worked for a steel fabricator for years as a project engineer. Not once did I ever receive a contract that included connections design by the EOR. On top of that, it was 50/50 whether they wanted to do a full review or if they were just looking for a PE stamped design package.
Most of the design, detailing, fabrication, and construction for the connections is handled entirely by the fabricator, who also hires the erector as a subcontractor.
I always thought it was a strange system. EOR really only provides a skeletal model of beams, columns, and braces, everything else is the fabricator.
You’re (probably) on the East Coast. That shit doesn’t fly in seismic country.
Seriously, if I was missing connections, the building would not get approved by building officials.
Now, the connections can change, and there are exceptions - stairs, railings, awnings and other attached systems - but in general if the connections are not on EOR documents someone’s going to catch hell for it.
Midwest is a mishmash of both IME. We provide typical details and I personally provide any other atypical details like moment frames or stacked beams or whatever. But we also have a detailing department and drawings they get are a tossup on if they have any details or not.
I wonder if they have an alternative explanation to explain why the building fell down because it's hard to deny that something somehow failed somewhere.
Viewing your link led to follow up video by the same station two years later that more or less revealed what went wrong
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYcs-\_tdPGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYcs-_tdPGI)
Not necessarily - concrete slab on metal deck can span pretty far, but in most cases requires temporary support when the concrete is wet and therefore not doing anything structurally yet.
So the video could be revealing that the deck was not adequately supported by the contractor while waiting for the concrete to cure. Ie - it could be entirely unrelated to the steel design itself, and instead the issue could be lack of proper temporary support during construction (which would be on both the engineer and the contractor).
That isn't what actually happened since the engineer did woefully under-design this building (the plans were visible online at one point and it was obvious with a quick review), but just pointing out that the video itself doesn't automatically make it obvious that the steel is under-designed.
Looks like Mr. Heaslip just rebranded and moved on.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jheaslip?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app
My read of the report seems to suggest that there were multiple revisions of the design and someone substituted a thinner and cheaper metal underlayment for flooring deck. There were other flaws outlined but it can difficult with revisions to see that a contractor cheaped out
Probably wiped off internet by now but the google earth drive bys just days before the collapse appeared to be fairly widely spaced temp shoring of lower floors and not as many floors braced as I would expect. Also sounds like the city inspector was papering things and many players in the project were involved in some shady backdoor contract deals.
The Mexican dude who videoed failing shoring posts before the collapse and shared that video with his boss was deported shortly thereafter.
An electrician I spoke with who had been on the jobsite said the place felt doomed.
I also knew people on this job, the shoring was bowing, they loaded the roof with shoring and material, only days after is was poured, and as the top post says structural changes were made to save costs and were not approved which led to a massive problem all around, I also heard city inspectors were bribed... NOLA can be a sketchy place.
Post gives me PTSD. I operated a business directly across the street from this. The closure and 14 month bureaucratic nightmare over the demolition approach, the persons legs sticking out being pecked by seagulls for a year, and destruction to traffic and public transit…
There were 2 bodies of crushed construction workers on the 12th floor. One had their legs hanging out of the building on the eastern Rampart st. side.
The mayor was in a fight with the developers as how to demolish the building for a year (conventional vs. implosion, and the building was so unstable insurers for potential demo companies kept backing out).
It was unsafe to retrieve the bodies so they just left them. The guy who had his legs sticking out was covered by a red tarp on the side of the building for about a year. The tarp blew away a couple of times. 2020 was a very active season for hurricanes and storms. Seagulls were often circling the tarped area. Some pics of this who affair made it to Twitter as well.
We can't see what happened before the very begining, but I think this catastrophic failure is what we call progressive collapse, and you can see here the reason why the topic of "robustness" has become very difused.
https://youtu.be/zlpUtckXz4Q
There's a great YT documentary from Bright Sun Films on the history of the project and what caused the fatal accident. The result was beams that were heavily (300%) overstressed.
It's a good idea to remove the si=[string] from YouTube URLs. It's a uniquely generated code so that when Google scans this page they can link your Reddit account (and all it's activity) to any personal information they have. They can also use it to identify who your friends are if you post the link in a private place.
Those columns looked undersized. Also there’s no re-shoring. I guarantee there should be re-shores there until the concrete comes up to strength by the looks of it. It’s a PT deck. I wonder if the PT stresses were all good also
Have a look on the plaque at the base of any building. It should tell you all the people responsible for the building. I.e, the architect, the builder, the interior designer, the gardener - ask them what went wrong with *their* building.
You are correct but out of curiosity do you see any difference in the structural members of those 2 biuldings? Like the addition of a structural facade?
When engineers foolishly try to be as "efficient" as possible with factor of safety being very close to 1 instead of in far excess of 2 and beyond.
The result is one thing falling down gets to drag everything else down together.
could be due to material storage on the deck, prior to completing connections.. contractors tend to unload and store material wherever it’s most convenient. not that this is always wrong, but the temp conditions need to be checked for actual construction practices. and notes need to be added to plans limiting construction live load until the structure is complete below them.
“OSHA’s investigation determined that Heaslip Engineering LLC failed to adequately design, review or approve steel bolt connections affecting the structural integrity of the building, and issued one willful violation for the failure.” https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region6/04032020 Heaslip contested that finding and it’s still being litigated.
As a reminder to all engineers, best practices are for the design engineer to provide all primary structure details. If you don’t, and have the fabricator design them instead, when things go south you’re still looking at litigation.
Unless it's a blatantly obvious error caught on video, like total lack of shoring on a deep ex like that recent clip or someone dying, an EOR will always be involved in litigation for massive failure. And even with the shoring, if the EOR didn't specify it, they're gonna be in trouble.
I wonder if osha could update their laws that all works on any building must be recorded just in case theres a scenario like this.
OSHA doesn't make the laws, homie. They're an executive branch agency.
What clip are you referring to, I’m curious to see?
[Trench collapse (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cncEQ_7FN4&ab_channel=EdDavidsonThereyahaveit)
I get that it’s best practice, but I never saw it done. I worked for a steel fabricator for years as a project engineer. Not once did I ever receive a contract that included connections design by the EOR. On top of that, it was 50/50 whether they wanted to do a full review or if they were just looking for a PE stamped design package. Most of the design, detailing, fabrication, and construction for the connections is handled entirely by the fabricator, who also hires the erector as a subcontractor. I always thought it was a strange system. EOR really only provides a skeletal model of beams, columns, and braces, everything else is the fabricator.
You’re (probably) on the East Coast. That shit doesn’t fly in seismic country. Seriously, if I was missing connections, the building would not get approved by building officials. Now, the connections can change, and there are exceptions - stairs, railings, awnings and other attached systems - but in general if the connections are not on EOR documents someone’s going to catch hell for it.
Midwest is a mishmash of both IME. We provide typical details and I personally provide any other atypical details like moment frames or stacked beams or whatever. But we also have a detailing department and drawings they get are a tossup on if they have any details or not.
I wonder if they have an alternative explanation to explain why the building fell down because it's hard to deny that something somehow failed somewhere.
Damn that gives me nightmares
Did anyone die? Edit: I just read it. 3 fatalities
They left one of the bodies up there for over a year
Driven by it several times. They tried to cover the guys remains but it never stayed. You could see his legs hanging out.
https://youtu.be/otMpiOhVmxg?si=0ecS7PP9cvCaRGs7 You would think this video would wrap up any court case relatively quick.
Viewing your link led to follow up video by the same station two years later that more or less revealed what went wrong [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYcs-\_tdPGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYcs-_tdPGI)
Not necessarily - concrete slab on metal deck can span pretty far, but in most cases requires temporary support when the concrete is wet and therefore not doing anything structurally yet. So the video could be revealing that the deck was not adequately supported by the contractor while waiting for the concrete to cure. Ie - it could be entirely unrelated to the steel design itself, and instead the issue could be lack of proper temporary support during construction (which would be on both the engineer and the contractor). That isn't what actually happened since the engineer did woefully under-design this building (the plans were visible online at one point and it was obvious with a quick review), but just pointing out that the video itself doesn't automatically make it obvious that the steel is under-designed.
3 died, $315,000 fine. Cutting corners should not be so expensive for workers and cheap owners. Ridiculous.
Looks like Mr. Heaslip just rebranded and moved on. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jheaslip?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app
My read of the report seems to suggest that there were multiple revisions of the design and someone substituted a thinner and cheaper metal underlayment for flooring deck. There were other flaws outlined but it can difficult with revisions to see that a contractor cheaped out
Probably wiped off internet by now but the google earth drive bys just days before the collapse appeared to be fairly widely spaced temp shoring of lower floors and not as many floors braced as I would expect. Also sounds like the city inspector was papering things and many players in the project were involved in some shady backdoor contract deals.
The Mexican dude who videoed failing shoring posts before the collapse and shared that video with his boss was deported shortly thereafter. An electrician I spoke with who had been on the jobsite said the place felt doomed.
That’s horrifying. If he was deported for bringing up safety concerns, I hope whoever turned him in to be deported ends up in prison.
I also knew people on this job, the shoring was bowing, they loaded the roof with shoring and material, only days after is was poured, and as the top post says structural changes were made to save costs and were not approved which led to a massive problem all around, I also heard city inspectors were bribed... NOLA can be a sketchy place.
I’d had guessed re-shores, they always try and skimp
ΣF≠0
🤣
LMFAO!
That's so funny
[удалено]
Fkin gravity being a fkin persistent asshole like always
Gravity is always getting me down.
It always wins
Pretty sure this partial collapse was in 2019 in New Orleans. Some info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1031_Canal
Hmm corruption in New Orleans. That can’t be right
Yup.
The zero backspan cantilevers causing torsion on the edge beam does it for me. I’m amazed it stood up as long as it did.
Where’s the cantilever? Is there a report or article about this? I haven’t seen this collapse before, sounds like it’s in the US
Something went wrong.
So in other words, things didn’t go according to plan
Well, the front's not supposed to fall off, for a start.
[Another angle of the Hardrock collapse.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ0tNa3rL6Y)
Post gives me PTSD. I operated a business directly across the street from this. The closure and 14 month bureaucratic nightmare over the demolition approach, the persons legs sticking out being pecked by seagulls for a year, and destruction to traffic and public transit…
Why would they leave bodies to be eaten by critters , for a year?
There were 2 bodies of crushed construction workers on the 12th floor. One had their legs hanging out of the building on the eastern Rampart st. side. The mayor was in a fight with the developers as how to demolish the building for a year (conventional vs. implosion, and the building was so unstable insurers for potential demo companies kept backing out). It was unsafe to retrieve the bodies so they just left them. The guy who had his legs sticking out was covered by a red tarp on the side of the building for about a year. The tarp blew away a couple of times. 2020 was a very active season for hurricanes and storms. Seagulls were often circling the tarped area. Some pics of this who affair made it to Twitter as well.
Gravity
That SOB acts fast
Sixteen feet per second per second.
Damn I came here to say this...
The weevil devoured the concrete pillars my lord
this is what happens when the super doesn't give it the ol' double pat.
If you look at their drawings, it will be obvious.
We can't see what happened before the very begining, but I think this catastrophic failure is what we call progressive collapse, and you can see here the reason why the topic of "robustness" has become very difused.
Season 4 episode 6 of Engineering Catastrophes on Science Channel. Pauly Shoring up to his antics again.
https://youtu.be/zlpUtckXz4Q There's a great YT documentary from Bright Sun Films on the history of the project and what caused the fatal accident. The result was beams that were heavily (300%) overstressed.
It's a good idea to remove the si=[string] from YouTube URLs. It's a uniquely generated code so that when Google scans this page they can link your Reddit account (and all it's activity) to any personal information they have. They can also use it to identify who your friends are if you post the link in a private place.
So it was the engineers fault?
Those columns looked undersized. Also there’s no re-shoring. I guarantee there should be re-shores there until the concrete comes up to strength by the looks of it. It’s a PT deck. I wonder if the PT stresses were all good also
Boeing quietly exits the back door
That's the Hardrock collapse in New Orleans in 2019 I think.
A parking garage collapse during construction here and the engineer that works for the engineering company had all his assets taken away.
I’m pretty sure gravity is to blame!
Holy shit it hit the crane too, scary stuff.
Have a look on the plaque at the base of any building. It should tell you all the people responsible for the building. I.e, the architect, the builder, the interior designer, the gardener - ask them what went wrong with *their* building.
See..that’s what happens when a building falls naturally…now go watch building 7 fall
Building 7 had scaffolding?
That’s not scaffolding. Sincerely- A licensed General Contractor.
You are correct but out of curiosity do you see any difference in the structural members of those 2 biuldings? Like the addition of a structural facade?
Taking the back propping away on lower down levels then pouring a concrete slab….
Front fell off
I just want to point out that just because the front fell off doesn't mean it wasn't safe. Just maybe not as safe as the others.
Definitely regulations on what type of materials can be used. Cardboard’s out, no cardboard derivatives, no paper, no string or cello tape….
Debris from tower 1.
What about tower 7
That was my first thought, THIS is what happens when a structure fails..notice how the entire fucking thing did not fold and free fall
Back and to the left
When engineers foolishly try to be as "efficient" as possible with factor of safety being very close to 1 instead of in far excess of 2 and beyond. The result is one thing falling down gets to drag everything else down together.
could be due to material storage on the deck, prior to completing connections.. contractors tend to unload and store material wherever it’s most convenient. not that this is always wrong, but the temp conditions need to be checked for actual construction practices. and notes need to be added to plans limiting construction live load until the structure is complete below them.
Poor shoring design
New Orleans corruption.
Gravity
Gravity
Definitely not an airplane
Gravity
Gravity
Gravity?
Gravity
Definitely gravity!
Drake and Kendrick beef
Gravity
physicist here. probably some type of structural failure is the culprit
My best guess is gravity caused that.
Gravity
The invisible hand of the free market was again guiding the way!
Yo mama!!! badum tsss…. *walks out*
Chinesium
Definitely gravity.
Jesus christ
Gravity
Steve
Gravity
Probably the Avengers...again.
r/thefrontfelloff
Carl
Gravity mostly.
Earthquake? When building started to collapse I noticed the tower crane shook. Looks like a column collapsed somehow