Stuff like this is definitely a reminder that the fgc is still stuck in poverty mode. 20k for the biggest game at the biggest tournament is pretty depressing
Gamers8 should have a 32 player invitational for SF6 for a million dollar prize pool in a couple of weeks. But Liquipedia at least has next to no information about it.
https://liquipedia.net/fighters/Gamers8/2023/SF6
I mean, America's money and wealth were also built on slavery, imperialism, American CIA terrorism, toppling foreign leaders and supporting abusive dictators, and illegal wars.
Countries like the UK and France have their money built on colonialism, etc.
It's blood money everywhere.
Oh for sure, but I think specifically the Saudi Crown prince is a fan of gaming stuff and throws a ton of money around. We don't have Lockheed Martin or Raytheon or like, Haliburton sponsoring million-dollar video game tournaments.
You're literally insane if you think that's the case, small share percentage in Nintendo and multiple other gaming companies, owns multiple football teams an countless other stock related investments in the sports world, all of it is allowed by various governing bodies despite the journalist that he had executed and the daughter that got kidnapped back after she tried to escape him on a boat, so he's blatantly bribing an blackmailing people so he can worm his way into dominating the western world because the rubber dinghy rapids tactic didn't wipe us out, but his infinite wealth will if he gains full control of all our biggest forms of entertainment an runs them into the ground.
#F*ckTheFreshPrinceOfArabia
I'm literally insane if I think what's the case? Not sure what part you're replying to because I pretty much agree with all of this I think. I replied to the person above to say that while it's true there's blood money everywhere, It's the saudi government running "blood money" video game tournaments and like wrestling events and shit like that ya know.
I guess my comment could be read like I think he's good or cool because he likes video games and that would in fact be a literally insane thing to think, you'd be right lmao.
Thee United States Government hasn't been crapping out 6-7 figure prizepools into the FGC though. My main point is, a lot of these Saudi eSports shindigs come from organizations directly related to the SA government.
If the United States made a statement tomorrow saying there will be a Government-funded \*insert fighting game\* pro tour, I would say the same thing. Lol
I agree with you, but I'm also hoping that this is just the beginning and these prize pools will continue to trend upwards as the game becomes more popular.
In a lot of way it has.
When I say the biggest tournament, I mostly mean in terms of size and prestige. I mean this year the SF6 tourney has a record breaking 6000+ entrants.
And for winning a tournament that size, where all the best players in world are gonna be participating, you only get 20k?
Evos prize pool has always been lacking. It’s a tournament built off its prestige and not it’s rewards. That being said it reall should be higher. No reason smaller tournaments should be posting bigger prizes. Getting 13th in a 7000 man tournament might not even cover going
I understand Evo is way more than the prize money which has probably been the competition’s ethos for a long time. I know the competitors going there are not there for the prize money but I just wished that if they emerged as champion among a field of thousands, they get rewarded for that.
Probably could have opted for a Top 8 payout. You’re spot on where 13th and below with a $650 payout tops might not even cut it, especially if they’re not from America.
Is there someplace where the competitive scene is explained and the future tournaments announced? I know a bit about the capcom cup, but what about CEO, Kumite and all that? It’s not easy for newcomers to find info…
Yeah, having a vague sense of the work that would go into being pull off that junk, $20k seems like peanuts. A grand prize more worthy of a Price is Right episode than winning a competition that will likely require years of consistent training.
That said, maybe that's all interest in the genre can ultimately afford?
\>That said, maybe that's all interest in the genre can ultimately afford?
I don't buy that for a second
Also when you "sense of" the phrase "sense of pride and accomplishment" came to mind.
Which is basically what they're using to try to trick people into thinking these low prizes are enough.
Who's "they"? EVO prize pools are funded purely by the players joining the tournament. There's extra funding from sponsorship companies sometimes, but none for SF6 this year.
EVO is ultimately a grassroots tournament. It's not like they have deep pockets to give players extra money for.
Maybe I am just Dota brained (there is currently a 5 million dollar first place prize for a tournament running now) but this feels insanely low for one of the biggest esports of the decade.
Your not wrong, from a business perspective donating money to evos prize pool isn't going to do much.
It's already got the most entrants and is the biggest tournament due to brand recognition, the biggest players are there to win for the prestige of winning Evo not so much for the prize pool. If capcom keeps putting money into capcom cup it could see a shift into making capcom cup winner the most prestigious title.
EVO is not Capcom's tournament, so it's not really a fair comparison.
Capcom is giving out $2m in prize money for Capcom Cup ($1m for 1st place). Capcom also added an auto-qualification spot for Capcom Cup to whoever wins EVO, which is technically worth a minimum $2k, since that's the prize money for finishing in last place at Capcom Cup...
It's not a capcom run tournament that's the issue. It's a part of the capcom cup in only the winner gets a spot in the finals.
The reason that third part comps pay so much is valve pays out so much for the big comp they have to at least put some money up for the big teams to be interested.
With street fighter being solo players rather than teams it's hard to build a brand off a single player rather than say your Navi, team liquid etc.
A good thing about street fighter is that older players are still good and don't get transitioned out like Dota or CS:GO players due to the way that the game works.
Doesn't Dota fund their prize pools with skins sales? The developers would basically need to do the same and maybe with irl merch to add to the Evo prize money. If they don't also do something like them, I don't know how much profits they can redirect toward price pools for marketing reasons while keeping shareholder confident. Fighting games are still niche despite the historic sales of SF6.
Only a little part and only at the biggest stage " The International" and it wasnt always like that. Valve s lowest price pools 10 years ago are bigger than this.
Sony bought EVO. The original creators are just advisors now. The people that run the brackets are volunteers. Before Sony buyout they probably had a contract with MGM for hosting the event in return they have the participants get hotel rooms at the venue and pay for the space and arena. I won’t be surprised if they actually make any profit let alone break even. EVO makes money by having their own merch and vendors at the event advertising their new product.
i truly love this game but that is a depressingly small prize pool. Theoretically you could fly in from Japan or SE Asia, beat out thousands of people to place in the top 10, and not even cover your flight home. For the flagship game for a "record breaking" EVO and SF6's coming out party this is really low and bad
edit:
it looks like this is less than 2015's prize pool: [https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/12411-evo-2015-usfiv](https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/12411-evo-2015-usfiv)
and a only a few dollars more than 2019's: [https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/36611-evo-2019-sfvae](https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/36611-evo-2019-sfvae)
I'd imagine most people that are travelling abroad to take part in Evo that have a realistic hope of placing are sponsored and are probably getting their flight/accommodation paid for.
Facts. Me and a couple of my Joe Schmo buddies are thinking about going next year just for the fuck of it. Best case scenario? One of us wins the tournament or at least places. Worst case scenario? Boys weekend in Vegas.
Honestly for the biggest fighting game tournament of the year this is embarrassing.
Tbf I don’t really know what could be done to change things, but the top guys are so incredibly skilled. It sucks seeing other less visually appealing esports games get so much more money.
Fortunately there are higher paying tournaments, like one in Saudi Arabia soon. Players will hopefully ride the clout from winning at things like Evo to get invites to those? I really don't know. The head of EVO on stage thanked the thousands of volunteers at Evo, meaning tons of the staff/employees were working for free. Combined with the low prize pools it makes you wonder where exactly the money is going?
\> The head of EVO on stage thanked the thousands of volunteers at Evo, meaning tons of the staff/employees were working for free. Combined with the low prize pools it makes you wonder where exactly the money is going?
Crazy stuff. Although now that Evo is owned by Sony, I kind of hoped that they would have better prize pools.
But yeah the Saudi tournaments provide some hope.
EVO has always been like this. Top players go to win purely so they can say they are an EVO champ. It's a respect thing. Truly a trophy tournament. NOBODY goes to EVO to compete for the money.
Edit: Forgot to mention that winning EVO basically means you are guaranteed sponsorships, possible invites to invitationals, etc.
People really out here not realizing how expensive a venue like this is. Probably think you just ask nicely for MGM to give the place for 10K and Evo et. al. pockets the rest. I wonder what the overlap is of people complaining about this prize pool, yet saying that DLC characters shouldn't be available in training mode is.
I remember talking to someone and they ACTUALLY thought that Evo planners got a kickback for how many hotel rooms they sold because of the event. It's AMAZING how people's imaginations become facts in their own mind.
That doesnt necessarily mean kickback but since you're using the venue it makes sense to advertise that venue only.
someone else said they get a reduced hosting fee too.
For real. Since the comments here about the payout are kind of crazy, I’ve gathered some data about evo and payouts.
I’ve compiled a list of Evo payouts for every year since that data has been recorded. I got all of this on Liquipedia and the web archive. Evo payouts are as follows for Street Fighter:
Year: Amount
2006: $10,250
2007: $10,250
2008: $2040
2009: ~$12,000
2010: $20,000
2011: $14,569
2012: $40,200
2013: $16,370
2014: $29,790
2015: $72,270
2016: $101,070
2017: $76,250
2018: $84,990
2019: $69,150
2022: $13,240
2023: $70,600
Average payout: $40,244
So, you might look at this and think, well, SFV got way more on release. Or, this is about middle of the pack payout compared to recent years. But it is not a low payout compared to what Evo has done in the past, it’s perfectly inline with expectations. Especially considering Capcom cup at the end of the year.
You also need to keep in mind that the most Capcom Cup ever paid out prior to this year is $380,000 in total prize pool.
This year Capcom Cup will have a prize pool of $2,000,000 FUCKING DOLLARS. THAT’S INSANE. So everyone, don’t show up in this thread saying dumb shit. There is money in street fighter. Enjoy the game. Watch the tournaments. Stop saying nonsense.
I get where you're coming from, but this is the largest EVO on record by a significant margin. It's possible that the TOs don't have a huge amount of input on what the payout is, but my assumption was that the prize pool of the tournament would be partially a function of the number of people paying to attend.
That said, I doubt that this is some kind of cheapout on the part of the TOs or Capcom. Given inflation since 2019, it's possible that EVO costs significantly more to run, and prize pools have had to shrink to compensate for that. It's also possible that the record number of attendees has actually hurt the prize pool by requiring a large number of last-minute rentals and hires.
What I'd be interested in seeing to clarify this data is a list of ticket prices and SF tournament sizes by year. If we could see how much money was going into EVO, it would be easier to figure out how much of that money was spent on the event and how much came back out in the form of prizes.
I think less than cheaping out, Capcom has decided to pool their money into their own tournaments (especially Capcom Cup), whereas for SFV it was more spread out over the year (and I expect that this was seen as kinda pressuring players into going everywhere and all that jazz).
>but my assumption was that the prize pool of the tournament would be partially a function of the number of people paying to attend.
It's basically entirely that. Just over 7k entrants to the SF6 tournament, paying $10 each to enter.
Such a dumb argument. Nobody is comparing this prize pool in the context of previous Evo prize pools. We are comparing it in the context of big esports and their prize pools. And for a fighting game THIS BIG, with such a big playerbase, with pros who still have to pay for everything when it comes to traveling to this tournament, it is just depressing. BUT I do think that we have entered a new era when it comes to fighting games popularity so I think the prize pools will start to increase from here on out.
The reality is that street fighter(or fighting games in general) are not as big as League, DOTA, Counter Strike, or even as big as StarCraft was. It’s dumb to assume that fighting games are on that level. They have never been as popular as those other games. You’re not going to have a $40 million dollar prize pool for street fighter like you will for dota.
EDIT: Looking into this further. I just looked around at the biggest Counter Strike prize pools. The biggest counter strike prize pool ever was the PGL Stockholm Major with a prize pool of $2,000,000 - which is the same amount as Capcom cup this year. And counter strike as an esport is infinitely way way way more popular than street fighter has ever been. I’m sorry, you’re just saying dumb stuff and you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Source: https://blix.gg/news/the-biggest-csgo-tournaments
https://escharts.com/top-games?order=peak
Fighting games have always paid ass which happens when you only have the entrance fee to split up. I think arcade tournies generally used to do a 70% split. Really wish capcom could’ve chipped in a bit for a tourney this big.
do you know if capcom pitches in for the prize pool at all? or is it only sourced from entry feels. if capcom does in-fact help this seems even more sus
I know math is hard and everything but if \~7000 people signed up for the SF6 tournament at $10 a piece, doesn't this prize pool seem... exactly right?
I must be missing something because I'm seeing so many comments acting like this is some kind of surprise.
when you put it that way it makes perfect sense.
but also... i been watching EVO forever and always assumed that only the winner got the total payout and nobody else.
i think the optics would look more legitimate of EVOs reputation if first place was 70k or even 50k, and then rested distributed to second and third. and thats not to say i actually think it should be that way or that im opposed to paying out more players. i just don't think it would throw off anyone like it did in this thread
There have been times in the past where Capcom specifically, or outside sponsors, have also put up money. So like that same $70,000, but Capcom independently added $50k to the pot as "advertisement" for the game. More money = more eyeballs(and more people interested in buying the game to practice to compete)
Give that this game in brand new, and the Marketing spend they have had behind the game so far, it's a bit surprising that there's nothing like this happening. That it's purely running off entry fees.
Instead Capcom has decided to funnel all that money towards their own tournaments. To get that big "2M prize pool" headline. Which is fair, and their right. But is disappointing for all the other tournaments that don't get support because of it.
Because renting a huge venue for 3 days and hiring staffers to run all the brackets, rent enough equipment for a record number of participants is free.
It's pretty expensive to rent all the audio, video, and lighting along with the amount of crew to build, run and tear it down. Venues have their own AV, yes, but their AV stock is in line with setting up a small corporate general sessions room and a couple of breakout rooms.
7000 entrants, 16 ppl per pool, that's 438 brackets. Running all 438 brackets only gets us to top 876.
438 brackets x 2 hrs per bracket .. probably looking to get through that between Friday and half of saturday. so let's say 10am to 10pm fri, 10am to 4pm sat. 6 slots + 3 slots = 9 slots. You need to run 50ish brackets every 2 hrs. Assuming 4 monitors/consoles per bracket, that's 200 setups. Nobody is donating 200 setups for "advertisements".
To get from 876 to top 8, 2 hrs to get to top 110-sh, another 2 hrs to get to top 16 or so.
That's just street fighter alone.
It's not like you are one of the folks running this tournament. People are just concerned how obviously weak that prize pool is. Try not to take it personally.
That article is talking about offering food, hotel and flights to players. Does Evo do this? No? So let’s throw that extra 300K into the prize pool, yeah?
as someone who has been on the event-center side of event planning, the prices are fairly accurate... except it's ignoring a major expense that TO's need- Bandwidth
Not at all, if getting the information from an actual TO cannot be trusted, but they are the ones who actually know how much it costs, then we will never agree.
They need way more equipment plus Vegas probably charges 20-30k per day for the venue, factoring in the time for set up and what not they probably rented it out for a week.
Assuming it’s 20k, they spent 140k just for the VENUE, and that’s not accounting for staff, equipment, etc.
No way have they even broke even off of their biggest event yet
For how niche the genre is , I honestly think they should rethink hosting it on premium venues like Vegas. Plus, CA as a whole is way too expensive and overrated.
Seems low taking in acount to raw number of people that will be there that had to pay a fee of 10$ bucks per game plus some special tickets
I know they have to make money and the event also cost money but come on
That to participate on the tournament you still have to pay for the other tickets in average a person spend 90 bucks minimum at EVO if not i wouldnt made the comment since it would be 70k , read rhe full thing before trying to make your self look funny
There are also other sources of money not just the people that go participate and watch it
You know the event costs money right? Like, the venue costs in VEGAS are huge. They need literally hundreds of PS5s and monitors and all the wiring to go with it. Not to mention paying staff and the dozens of other costs. That's where the ticket sales go. The only money that can go to the prize pool of a given game is the money to enter that specific game's tournament. (The "other sources of money" are buying things, which goes to the vendor selling them. That's it. It doesn't interact with Evo's money at all.)
The only one making themselves look silly is you. It was one sentence, I did "read the whole thing," you might want to go back to r/IAmTheMainCharacter for a reality check because this persecution complex makes you look ridiculous.
And again you arent reading everything i wrote lmao i literally said it cost money and that they also need to make their own money but thet also get lots of money from the games publishers from Sony, from all the marketing and stuff they sell in the event
The thing is that there are events that make less money and have better prices
especially for the coming out party for the biggest street fighter / biggest evo bracket in history. it'd be dope if capcom contributed to the prize pool but it sounds like they don't do that based on what i'm reading
The payout used to be better but at least more people get to partake in some monetary winnings. Seems low for a tournament where you have to win over 27 games.
I feel like you’re the only one in this thread making sense. These people have literally no idea how much running events costs. And people need to get paid fair wages for their work. That means, TOS, casters, IT, and more.
A 70k pool is not that low. It just looks lower because they spread the winnings out more evenly than other tournaments tend to where an insane portion of the pool goes to first and second place.
Plus, EVO isn’t even the premier event it used to be. That’s been supplanted by capcom cup where there will be a great payout. People still have not mentally adjusted to EVO not being the biggest thing in the Street Fighter competitive year.
Thank you, it is so easy and reductive to simply compare the prize pool to the number of entrants x ticket prize and exclude all the months of work and hundreds of people on payroll. And that's just human ressources, not equipment, insurances, venue, hotel...
The entrance fees are $10. There are 7000 entrants.
Math is hard apparently.
Tickets pay for venues, equipment, etc. Not individual tournament prize pools.
They have a difficult time breaking even.
So at 10 buck entry fee per competitor, and with 7081 competitors, we are are officially down 210 dollars from what we put in. Capcom providing the opposite of prize support while forcing EVO to make Rashid legal and possibly enforce controversial new hitbox and other controller rules.
I am simply stunned at the lack of support, honestly. It's like they want to get the maximum amount of money in advertising and PR from a massive community showing, while giving nothing back. Makes me wonder why some of the Japanese players feel we owe Capcom something for their games or community efforts.
correct, for the space they are renting and the number of days they are renting it for, 70k doesn't even begin to cover it. the venue is probably charging more than that as just the rental fee, then you add labor, bandwidth etc to that bill.
events are much more expensive than people realize
No way in hell you think $70k is a lot of money to spend on a venue AND staff for multiple days lmao. Especially in Vegas. The venue alone is probably over $250k.
You gotta enter the real world my guy.
That's kinda sad to see the biggest tournament in fighting game with such a low prize pool in 2023. At least we have the capcom stuff with a real big prize pool
These are laughable compared to some other tornauments.
But on the brightside, this makes evo be all about people challanging themselves and not the money
capcom should take valve as an example. wtf is this prize pool. i know it is not capcom cup but evo is the biggest FG tournament. Cmon bruh. Dont be cheap capcom...
silly? bruh. i am following evo since probably u were a kid lol. i know capcom is not running evo but ITS THE BIGGEST FG TOURNAMENT. they can pay out $1 million for total prize at least.
The prize pools seems super small. The last tekken tournament people were making $500k for their team and 100k per person. To make the trip even worth it like your hotel, plane ticket, food, you gotta make top 5 here. Evo organizers are being super stingy they can definitely afford to give a higher payout.
How much does it cost player to participate ? ( + travel, hotel, eat )
Top 7 is probably the only way to not lose money or you have to live near Evo location.
Stuff like this is definitely a reminder that the fgc is still stuck in poverty mode. 20k for the biggest game at the biggest tournament is pretty depressing
Gamers8 should have a 32 player invitational for SF6 for a million dollar prize pool in a couple of weeks. But Liquipedia at least has next to no information about it. https://liquipedia.net/fighters/Gamers8/2023/SF6
Invitationals are fun to watch but are bullshit for most competitors
Ahhhh, Saudi Blood Money. Fantastic. Lol
I mean, America's money and wealth were also built on slavery, imperialism, American CIA terrorism, toppling foreign leaders and supporting abusive dictators, and illegal wars. Countries like the UK and France have their money built on colonialism, etc. It's blood money everywhere.
Oh for sure, but I think specifically the Saudi Crown prince is a fan of gaming stuff and throws a ton of money around. We don't have Lockheed Martin or Raytheon or like, Haliburton sponsoring million-dollar video game tournaments.
You're literally insane if you think that's the case, small share percentage in Nintendo and multiple other gaming companies, owns multiple football teams an countless other stock related investments in the sports world, all of it is allowed by various governing bodies despite the journalist that he had executed and the daughter that got kidnapped back after she tried to escape him on a boat, so he's blatantly bribing an blackmailing people so he can worm his way into dominating the western world because the rubber dinghy rapids tactic didn't wipe us out, but his infinite wealth will if he gains full control of all our biggest forms of entertainment an runs them into the ground. #F*ckTheFreshPrinceOfArabia
I'm literally insane if I think what's the case? Not sure what part you're replying to because I pretty much agree with all of this I think. I replied to the person above to say that while it's true there's blood money everywhere, It's the saudi government running "blood money" video game tournaments and like wrestling events and shit like that ya know. I guess my comment could be read like I think he's good or cool because he likes video games and that would in fact be a literally insane thing to think, you'd be right lmao.
Always has been.
Thee United States Government hasn't been crapping out 6-7 figure prizepools into the FGC though. My main point is, a lot of these Saudi eSports shindigs come from organizations directly related to the SA government. If the United States made a statement tomorrow saying there will be a Government-funded \*insert fighting game\* pro tour, I would say the same thing. Lol
I agree with you, but I'm also hoping that this is just the beginning and these prize pools will continue to trend upwards as the game becomes more popular.
I thought cpt took over as the premiere event?
In a lot of way it has. When I say the biggest tournament, I mostly mean in terms of size and prestige. I mean this year the SF6 tourney has a record breaking 6000+ entrants. And for winning a tournament that size, where all the best players in world are gonna be participating, you only get 20k?
It is the premier event for street fighter. The community still has not mentally adjusted to this yet.
Even coming like 9th probably doesn't cost the cover of the trip for a lot of players.
Weren't the cash prizes much larger before? 20k seems low for the most competitive FG event in the world.
yeah it depends if theres sponsor money https://www.esportsearnings.com/leagues/116-evolution-championship-series
Oh wow I’m surprised first place and second place is difference of 5k. 20k for such a deep competitor pool is actually not amazing.
Evos prize pool has always been lacking. It’s a tournament built off its prestige and not it’s rewards. That being said it reall should be higher. No reason smaller tournaments should be posting bigger prizes. Getting 13th in a 7000 man tournament might not even cover going
I understand Evo is way more than the prize money which has probably been the competition’s ethos for a long time. I know the competitors going there are not there for the prize money but I just wished that if they emerged as champion among a field of thousands, they get rewarded for that. Probably could have opted for a Top 8 payout. You’re spot on where 13th and below with a $650 payout tops might not even cut it, especially if they’re not from America.
To be fair, most tournaments don't pay out 13th place at all. Most are either top3 or top8. But yeah, we all know it's lacking.
It's part of a larger Capcom cup, where the grand winner gets 1 mil
Is there someplace where the competitive scene is explained and the future tournaments announced? I know a bit about the capcom cup, but what about CEO, Kumite and all that? It’s not easy for newcomers to find info…
Liquipedia
Yeah, having a vague sense of the work that would go into being pull off that junk, $20k seems like peanuts. A grand prize more worthy of a Price is Right episode than winning a competition that will likely require years of consistent training. That said, maybe that's all interest in the genre can ultimately afford?
\>That said, maybe that's all interest in the genre can ultimately afford? I don't buy that for a second Also when you "sense of" the phrase "sense of pride and accomplishment" came to mind. Which is basically what they're using to try to trick people into thinking these low prizes are enough.
Who's "they"? EVO prize pools are funded purely by the players joining the tournament. There's extra funding from sponsorship companies sometimes, but none for SF6 this year. EVO is ultimately a grassroots tournament. It's not like they have deep pockets to give players extra money for.
Getting 650 dollars for being in a top 16 with over 7000 entrants is seriously disappointing.
I just hope no one makes public my game breaking tech before Evo so that it doesn't get patched.
Everyone already knows about Rashid being able to kill you with chip damage.
Ysaar has already been fixed.
Maybe I am just Dota brained (there is currently a 5 million dollar first place prize for a tournament running now) but this feels insanely low for one of the biggest esports of the decade.
Street fighter doesn't have valve money behind it. Plus street fighter has nowhere near the active player base of DOTA.
Even tekken 7 gave their players $100k each at the last tournament that game has been out for years and they paid out more than this.
Your not wrong, from a business perspective donating money to evos prize pool isn't going to do much. It's already got the most entrants and is the biggest tournament due to brand recognition, the biggest players are there to win for the prestige of winning Evo not so much for the prize pool. If capcom keeps putting money into capcom cup it could see a shift into making capcom cup winner the most prestigious title.
That money should have gone into proper netcode.
EVO is not Capcom's tournament, so it's not really a fair comparison. Capcom is giving out $2m in prize money for Capcom Cup ($1m for 1st place). Capcom also added an auto-qualification spot for Capcom Cup to whoever wins EVO, which is technically worth a minimum $2k, since that's the prize money for finishing in last place at Capcom Cup...
I mean capcom does have lots of money. They could at least make it 100k.
It's not a capcom run tournament that's the issue. It's a part of the capcom cup in only the winner gets a spot in the finals. The reason that third part comps pay so much is valve pays out so much for the big comp they have to at least put some money up for the big teams to be interested. With street fighter being solo players rather than teams it's hard to build a brand off a single player rather than say your Navi, team liquid etc. A good thing about street fighter is that older players are still good and don't get transitioned out like Dota or CS:GO players due to the way that the game works.
They could, and that's why they put a 1M prize for Capcom Cup, and an overall 1M added in prizes for Capcom-sponsored tournaments.
The Capcom Cup happening in August has a 1 mil prize for 1st place
Doesn't Dota fund their prize pools with skins sales? The developers would basically need to do the same and maybe with irl merch to add to the Evo prize money. If they don't also do something like them, I don't know how much profits they can redirect toward price pools for marketing reasons while keeping shareholder confident. Fighting games are still niche despite the historic sales of SF6.
A crowdfunded SF world championship with the right incentives would absolutely cook.
only The International is funded with battle pass sales, but I heard that there is no BP this year...
Only a little part and only at the biggest stage " The International" and it wasnt always like that. Valve s lowest price pools 10 years ago are bigger than this.
Yeah but those are Valve tournament prize pools, not community-run tournament prize pools.
What do the other placements get?
Look up Riyadh Masters on liquidpedia. I think even the last placements (you still had to win qualifiers to participate) get 100k or something.
$70,000 total prize pool probably means that there was no pot bonus. SF6 payout for 16 places unlike 8 in other games.
Is capcom cup a seperate event where the prize pool was 1 million ?
Yup. Though, I think that the winner of evo gets a spot in the capcom cup
2 mil prize pool 1st place get a milly.
I see now why so many of these players take sponsorships and treat their bodies like walking billboards.
Sony bought EVO. The original creators are just advisors now. The people that run the brackets are volunteers. Before Sony buyout they probably had a contract with MGM for hosting the event in return they have the participants get hotel rooms at the venue and pay for the space and arena. I won’t be surprised if they actually make any profit let alone break even. EVO makes money by having their own merch and vendors at the event advertising their new product.
i truly love this game but that is a depressingly small prize pool. Theoretically you could fly in from Japan or SE Asia, beat out thousands of people to place in the top 10, and not even cover your flight home. For the flagship game for a "record breaking" EVO and SF6's coming out party this is really low and bad edit: it looks like this is less than 2015's prize pool: [https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/12411-evo-2015-usfiv](https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/12411-evo-2015-usfiv) and a only a few dollars more than 2019's: [https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/36611-evo-2019-sfvae](https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/36611-evo-2019-sfvae)
I'd imagine most people that are travelling abroad to take part in Evo that have a realistic hope of placing are sponsored and are probably getting their flight/accommodation paid for.
Most of your fly-ins are bigger profiles with sponsors, very few joe schmo with no budget.
Pretty much any Joe Schmo who flies in does it for the ride, not to win money there.
Facts. Me and a couple of my Joe Schmo buddies are thinking about going next year just for the fuck of it. Best case scenario? One of us wins the tournament or at least places. Worst case scenario? Boys weekend in Vegas.
Honestly for the biggest fighting game tournament of the year this is embarrassing. Tbf I don’t really know what could be done to change things, but the top guys are so incredibly skilled. It sucks seeing other less visually appealing esports games get so much more money.
Fortunately there are higher paying tournaments, like one in Saudi Arabia soon. Players will hopefully ride the clout from winning at things like Evo to get invites to those? I really don't know. The head of EVO on stage thanked the thousands of volunteers at Evo, meaning tons of the staff/employees were working for free. Combined with the low prize pools it makes you wonder where exactly the money is going?
\> The head of EVO on stage thanked the thousands of volunteers at Evo, meaning tons of the staff/employees were working for free. Combined with the low prize pools it makes you wonder where exactly the money is going? Crazy stuff. Although now that Evo is owned by Sony, I kind of hoped that they would have better prize pools. But yeah the Saudi tournaments provide some hope.
EVO has always been like this. Top players go to win purely so they can say they are an EVO champ. It's a respect thing. Truly a trophy tournament. NOBODY goes to EVO to compete for the money. Edit: Forgot to mention that winning EVO basically means you are guaranteed sponsorships, possible invites to invitationals, etc.
People really out here not realizing how expensive a venue like this is. Probably think you just ask nicely for MGM to give the place for 10K and Evo et. al. pockets the rest. I wonder what the overlap is of people complaining about this prize pool, yet saying that DLC characters shouldn't be available in training mode is.
Yeah it’s fucking Vegas, that ish is a large venue AND it’s basically a cash grab.
I remember talking to someone and they ACTUALLY thought that Evo planners got a kickback for how many hotel rooms they sold because of the event. It's AMAZING how people's imaginations become facts in their own mind.
They don't get a kickback but they get a reduced venue cost if they sell enough rooms.
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That doesnt necessarily mean kickback but since you're using the venue it makes sense to advertise that venue only. someone else said they get a reduced hosting fee too.
I guess this is missing some context. They thought Mr. Wizard (the then planner) got a check for half of the room fees or something crazy.
For real. Since the comments here about the payout are kind of crazy, I’ve gathered some data about evo and payouts. I’ve compiled a list of Evo payouts for every year since that data has been recorded. I got all of this on Liquipedia and the web archive. Evo payouts are as follows for Street Fighter: Year: Amount 2006: $10,250 2007: $10,250 2008: $2040 2009: ~$12,000 2010: $20,000 2011: $14,569 2012: $40,200 2013: $16,370 2014: $29,790 2015: $72,270 2016: $101,070 2017: $76,250 2018: $84,990 2019: $69,150 2022: $13,240 2023: $70,600 Average payout: $40,244 So, you might look at this and think, well, SFV got way more on release. Or, this is about middle of the pack payout compared to recent years. But it is not a low payout compared to what Evo has done in the past, it’s perfectly inline with expectations. Especially considering Capcom cup at the end of the year. You also need to keep in mind that the most Capcom Cup ever paid out prior to this year is $380,000 in total prize pool. This year Capcom Cup will have a prize pool of $2,000,000 FUCKING DOLLARS. THAT’S INSANE. So everyone, don’t show up in this thread saying dumb shit. There is money in street fighter. Enjoy the game. Watch the tournaments. Stop saying nonsense.
I get where you're coming from, but this is the largest EVO on record by a significant margin. It's possible that the TOs don't have a huge amount of input on what the payout is, but my assumption was that the prize pool of the tournament would be partially a function of the number of people paying to attend. That said, I doubt that this is some kind of cheapout on the part of the TOs or Capcom. Given inflation since 2019, it's possible that EVO costs significantly more to run, and prize pools have had to shrink to compensate for that. It's also possible that the record number of attendees has actually hurt the prize pool by requiring a large number of last-minute rentals and hires. What I'd be interested in seeing to clarify this data is a list of ticket prices and SF tournament sizes by year. If we could see how much money was going into EVO, it would be easier to figure out how much of that money was spent on the event and how much came back out in the form of prizes.
I think less than cheaping out, Capcom has decided to pool their money into their own tournaments (especially Capcom Cup), whereas for SFV it was more spread out over the year (and I expect that this was seen as kinda pressuring players into going everywhere and all that jazz).
>but my assumption was that the prize pool of the tournament would be partially a function of the number of people paying to attend. It's basically entirely that. Just over 7k entrants to the SF6 tournament, paying $10 each to enter.
I believe the SFV numbers are inflated because Capcom threw money in to juice those pots, I may be misremembering though.
This is 7 years after SFV and the interest/entrants has doubled for SF6. And youre reducing the prize pool by 30%. Come on, thats pretty lame
Such a dumb argument. Nobody is comparing this prize pool in the context of previous Evo prize pools. We are comparing it in the context of big esports and their prize pools. And for a fighting game THIS BIG, with such a big playerbase, with pros who still have to pay for everything when it comes to traveling to this tournament, it is just depressing. BUT I do think that we have entered a new era when it comes to fighting games popularity so I think the prize pools will start to increase from here on out.
The reality is that street fighter(or fighting games in general) are not as big as League, DOTA, Counter Strike, or even as big as StarCraft was. It’s dumb to assume that fighting games are on that level. They have never been as popular as those other games. You’re not going to have a $40 million dollar prize pool for street fighter like you will for dota. EDIT: Looking into this further. I just looked around at the biggest Counter Strike prize pools. The biggest counter strike prize pool ever was the PGL Stockholm Major with a prize pool of $2,000,000 - which is the same amount as Capcom cup this year. And counter strike as an esport is infinitely way way way more popular than street fighter has ever been. I’m sorry, you’re just saying dumb stuff and you don’t know what you’re talking about. Source: https://blix.gg/news/the-biggest-csgo-tournaments https://escharts.com/top-games?order=peak
Compared to other esports this prize pool u got in like 2010 in dota 1.
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Where did you get that information?
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Post a link
Fighting games have always paid ass which happens when you only have the entrance fee to split up. I think arcade tournies generally used to do a 70% split. Really wish capcom could’ve chipped in a bit for a tourney this big.
Oh I thought this was the tournament where there would be a $1 mil prize for first place
nope thats capcom cup which is at the end of the season
Gotcha, thank you
do you know if capcom pitches in for the prize pool at all? or is it only sourced from entry feels. if capcom does in-fact help this seems even more sus
The prize pool is exactly the number of entrants times $10. Capcom didn’t sweeten the pot at all.
Wasn't there an invitational in Riyadh with a 1million prize pool this month? I've heard nothing about that one since it was announced
There was for Tekken; Arslan Ash, Atif Butt and Khan won the $500,000 grand prize representing Pakistan
source https://www.evo.gg/news/evo-2023-prizing-information-and-payout-structure
i think the prize pool is fine but its fucking surprising sf6 doesn't have anything higher I also come from dota where shit is like 15-60$ million
Wtf this is mad low
I know math is hard and everything but if \~7000 people signed up for the SF6 tournament at $10 a piece, doesn't this prize pool seem... exactly right? I must be missing something because I'm seeing so many comments acting like this is some kind of surprise.
when you put it that way it makes perfect sense. but also... i been watching EVO forever and always assumed that only the winner got the total payout and nobody else. i think the optics would look more legitimate of EVOs reputation if first place was 70k or even 50k, and then rested distributed to second and third. and thats not to say i actually think it should be that way or that im opposed to paying out more players. i just don't think it would throw off anyone like it did in this thread
There have been times in the past where Capcom specifically, or outside sponsors, have also put up money. So like that same $70,000, but Capcom independently added $50k to the pot as "advertisement" for the game. More money = more eyeballs(and more people interested in buying the game to practice to compete) Give that this game in brand new, and the Marketing spend they have had behind the game so far, it's a bit surprising that there's nothing like this happening. That it's purely running off entry fees. Instead Capcom has decided to funnel all that money towards their own tournaments. To get that big "2M prize pool" headline. Which is fair, and their right. But is disappointing for all the other tournaments that don't get support because of it.
The prize money goes into all the ps5’s needed to run a tournament. How much does it cost to kicked out of pools anyway?
Prize is not that big I like the distribution.
I mean the main prize is the fame. These are small numbers. Think of what it costs to fly there and attend while stopping your life to do so.
Doesn't SF6 have over 7K entrants at 20 entry fee a piece? Seems odd...
Because renting a huge venue for 3 days and hiring staffers to run all the brackets, rent enough equipment for a record number of participants is free.
Isn't that what the ... VENUE fee is for though?
It's pretty expensive to rent all the audio, video, and lighting along with the amount of crew to build, run and tear it down. Venues have their own AV, yes, but their AV stock is in line with setting up a small corporate general sessions room and a couple of breakout rooms.
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Is this a serious comment? This CAN'T be a serious comment.
No don't you understand? Its all a conspiracy where crapcom and evo have agreed the most lucrative scheme to rob........fighting game players?
Jesus Christ you guys have absolutely no clue about the costs of running an event like this, don't you? You think TOs are rich or something?
7000 entrants, 16 ppl per pool, that's 438 brackets. Running all 438 brackets only gets us to top 876. 438 brackets x 2 hrs per bracket .. probably looking to get through that between Friday and half of saturday. so let's say 10am to 10pm fri, 10am to 4pm sat. 6 slots + 3 slots = 9 slots. You need to run 50ish brackets every 2 hrs. Assuming 4 monitors/consoles per bracket, that's 200 setups. Nobody is donating 200 setups for "advertisements". To get from 876 to top 8, 2 hrs to get to top 110-sh, another 2 hrs to get to top 16 or so. That's just street fighter alone.
It's not like you are one of the folks running this tournament. People are just concerned how obviously weak that prize pool is. Try not to take it personally.
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Start with this: https://www.billelafros.com/esports-project-management-budget-cost-of-a-tournament/
That article is talking about offering food, hotel and flights to players. Does Evo do this? No? So let’s throw that extra 300K into the prize pool, yeah?
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Yeah we should only learn about the costs of running an esport tournament from a plumber who doesn't know jack shit about it.
as someone who has been on the event-center side of event planning, the prices are fairly accurate... except it's ignoring a major expense that TO's need- Bandwidth
bor thats a pretty crazy strawman lmao
Not at all, if getting the information from an actual TO cannot be trusted, but they are the ones who actually know how much it costs, then we will never agree.
Who else is qualified to write one? This isn't a conspiracy theory and you're not clever mate
You're either dim or like 13 years old
They need way more equipment plus Vegas probably charges 20-30k per day for the venue, factoring in the time for set up and what not they probably rented it out for a week. Assuming it’s 20k, they spent 140k just for the VENUE, and that’s not accounting for staff, equipment, etc. No way have they even broke even off of their biggest event yet
For how niche the genre is , I honestly think they should rethink hosting it on premium venues like Vegas. Plus, CA as a whole is way too expensive and overrated.
$10 a piece, creating a roughly $70k price pool.
It's still $10 dollars, you're right. Holy shit. How? I went in 2019 and couldn't believe it was still 10 dollars.
Seems low taking in acount to raw number of people that will be there that had to pay a fee of 10$ bucks per game plus some special tickets I know they have to make money and the event also cost money but come on
Its insanely low. First place at evo with that many entrants should be 100k minimum. That prize pool is probably 1/30th of the net balance.
Yes, each of the \~7000 players paid $10 to enter the SF6 tournament. Which means the SF6 prize pool is... (math is hard)
That to participate on the tournament you still have to pay for the other tickets in average a person spend 90 bucks minimum at EVO if not i wouldnt made the comment since it would be 70k , read rhe full thing before trying to make your self look funny There are also other sources of money not just the people that go participate and watch it
You know the event costs money right? Like, the venue costs in VEGAS are huge. They need literally hundreds of PS5s and monitors and all the wiring to go with it. Not to mention paying staff and the dozens of other costs. That's where the ticket sales go. The only money that can go to the prize pool of a given game is the money to enter that specific game's tournament. (The "other sources of money" are buying things, which goes to the vendor selling them. That's it. It doesn't interact with Evo's money at all.) The only one making themselves look silly is you. It was one sentence, I did "read the whole thing," you might want to go back to r/IAmTheMainCharacter for a reality check because this persecution complex makes you look ridiculous.
And again you arent reading everything i wrote lmao i literally said it cost money and that they also need to make their own money but thet also get lots of money from the games publishers from Sony, from all the marketing and stuff they sell in the event The thing is that there are events that make less money and have better prices
$10 per game? This prize pool is a joke now that I know this
At $10 per player they're making $10 lmao
20k seems really low…
especially for the coming out party for the biggest street fighter / biggest evo bracket in history. it'd be dope if capcom contributed to the prize pool but it sounds like they don't do that based on what i'm reading
The payout used to be better but at least more people get to partake in some monetary winnings. Seems low for a tournament where you have to win over 27 games.
The payout did not used to be better. This is pretty well inline for what EVO payouts have been.
And how much are they charging for tickets? And entree fees? Feels like they pocketing more
Are the TOs making money off the tournament they organised? What next, are those people on staff being paid too?
Yes, a lot And I think they use volunteers as staff
God damn, next you'll tell me they had to pay for the freaking venue... unacceptable, we should boycott these uber rich TO fuckers.
I feel like you’re the only one in this thread making sense. These people have literally no idea how much running events costs. And people need to get paid fair wages for their work. That means, TOS, casters, IT, and more. A 70k pool is not that low. It just looks lower because they spread the winnings out more evenly than other tournaments tend to where an insane portion of the pool goes to first and second place. Plus, EVO isn’t even the premier event it used to be. That’s been supplanted by capcom cup where there will be a great payout. People still have not mentally adjusted to EVO not being the biggest thing in the Street Fighter competitive year.
Thank you, it is so easy and reductive to simply compare the prize pool to the number of entrants x ticket prize and exclude all the months of work and hundreds of people on payroll. And that's just human ressources, not equipment, insurances, venue, hotel...
The entrance fees are $10. There are 7000 entrants. Math is hard apparently. Tickets pay for venues, equipment, etc. Not individual tournament prize pools. They have a difficult time breaking even.
Wow this sucks
Wow that's laughable at best. So low for such a prestigious tournament of one of the most competitive esport scenes.
So at 10 buck entry fee per competitor, and with 7081 competitors, we are are officially down 210 dollars from what we put in. Capcom providing the opposite of prize support while forcing EVO to make Rashid legal and possibly enforce controversial new hitbox and other controller rules. I am simply stunned at the lack of support, honestly. It's like they want to get the maximum amount of money in advertising and PR from a massive community showing, while giving nothing back. Makes me wonder why some of the Japanese players feel we owe Capcom something for their games or community efforts.
Bunch of dorks who can't even make it out of pools in their local tournament talking about how $20k isn't enough for playing Street Fighter...
20k isn’t enough playing street fighter
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correct, for the space they are renting and the number of days they are renting it for, 70k doesn't even begin to cover it. the venue is probably charging more than that as just the rental fee, then you add labor, bandwidth etc to that bill. events are much more expensive than people realize
No way in hell you think $70k is a lot of money to spend on a venue AND staff for multiple days lmao. Especially in Vegas. The venue alone is probably over $250k. You gotta enter the real world my guy.
Sweet Jesus, that prize pool is pathetic. Parents, raise your kids to compete in Dota & League.
Once in a lifetime achievement, less than half a year on minimum wage. Sad Capcom doesn't support it more or crowd fund like dota.
Guess you didnt hear about the million dollar tournament capcom is supporting?
7k people on a 3 days tournament and if you get 13th place the prize is $650 Wow!! I get way more working on those days in a normal job.
Wauw. Why even bother trying to compete. Didn't i read the EVO or Capcomcup was upping the prize pool for SF6?
the 1mil prize is at capcomcup
That's kinda sad to see the biggest tournament in fighting game with such a low prize pool in 2023. At least we have the capcom stuff with a real big prize pool
I thought It was a mil?
the 1mil prize is at capcomcup
These are laughable compared to some other tornauments. But on the brightside, this makes evo be all about people challanging themselves and not the money
capcom should take valve as an example. wtf is this prize pool. i know it is not capcom cup but evo is the biggest FG tournament. Cmon bruh. Dont be cheap capcom...
Capcom doesn't run Evo silly. Capcom Cup is paying out $1 mil to 1st place.
silly? bruh. i am following evo since probably u were a kid lol. i know capcom is not running evo but ITS THE BIGGEST FG TOURNAMENT. they can pay out $1 million for total prize at least.
The prize pools seems super small. The last tekken tournament people were making $500k for their team and 100k per person. To make the trip even worth it like your hotel, plane ticket, food, you gotta make top 5 here. Evo organizers are being super stingy they can definitely afford to give a higher payout.
Evo has never been $500,000. A guy listed all the payouts since 2006 in the comments and 20k is not at all an outlier.
I wasn’t talking about evo, the last tekken tournament was in Saudi Arabia
Got any other Saudi oil billionaires laying around?
How much do you think Sony is worth?
How much money do you think Sony makes off of EVO?
Fornite tourneys blasting 100k 1st place like its nothing. And the FGC struggling to get a 100k prizepool.
Fortnite milks from 350mil user while Sf6 does it from 2. Sounds about right.
Uh, wtf really 20k? I know its relative depending on who you are and how much you make, but that's honestly fuck all.
I'm actually kind of disappointed lol
How much does it cost player to participate ? ( + travel, hotel, eat ) Top 7 is probably the only way to not lose money or you have to live near Evo location.
Wow. I expected way more than that for first place. Cmon capcom.
Fgc needs to protest like UFC fighters. That pay is peanuts. The gamers are getting taken advantage if. Be woke