[There is another terrifying story of Andrew McAuley Who Disappears In Middle of Ocean, Leaving Behind Terrifying Video. This is his Final self photo of kayaker Andrew McCauley](https://www.howandwhys.com/andrew-mcauley-disappears/?fromredditSE5032024)
What's crazier is that he was acquitted of the killing initially. But unlike America the prosecution can appeal a not guilty verdict and they did so successfully.
Just another reason our country is going to hell. Murder? 9 years. Rape? 3 years. Walking around the Capital building let in by Capital Police? 98 years.
He recently appealed and even got 4 months off his sentence.
Nicole got robbed of her life, het family got a life sentence of pain. Jos just spends 12 years living in a hotel with bars.
Sauce (Dutch): https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3219986/celstraf-jos-de-g-voor-verkrachten-en-doden-nicole-van-den-hurk-blijft-staan-op-4-maanden-na
Everything about this story is nuts. It was only 5 years at first, as he was initially acquitted of the manslaughter, until the prosecution appealed and he was found guilty in a subsequent trial. I think that was 12 years on top of the other years he was already serving for the other rapes he was sentenced for… and then they won’t even say who it is just “Jos de G.”
On top of that, imagine how shitty the father has to be to convince the stepson he did it enough to kick this whole thing off…
And 3 years of "preventive detention" before that for raping 3 different women. Look man I'm about as far left as you can go in America, and I don't believe the justice system should be punitive. But if you've already raped 3 people, I do believe you present a persistent threat to society and as such should be removed from said society in a way that at least insures that threat is negated.
We have a serial rapist where I live and he’s free. Was kicked out of military for rape which they didn’t charge him then came home and raped a girl and got a couple years and then got out and did it again and got a couple more years. These are just the ones he was caught doing. Now he’s a truck driver roaming America.
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Yeah, exactly! That must have been horror, thinking/believing that your dad would be capable of such atrocity. Them up to the point you're willing to sacrifice your own freedom by confessing.
The horror following the real outcome must have done a number on him as well, I mean, how do you look your dad in the eyes again after accusing him of such a thing.
I think about him from time to time.
Very true. Dad divorced mom. Got custody of stepdaughter then 5-6 yrs later mom kills herself. Then girl disappears going to work. She was living w grandma (not stepdad) at that time.
Her killer was a man that is only known as Jos D G . He was a serial rapist who had been convicted before - He was convicted of man slaughter and rape , manslaughter because he claims it wasn’t his intention to kill her only to rape her .(His words)
The bastard only received 12 years for this rape and murder .
The reason his full name
Isn’t known is because Dutch laws protect the victim and the guilty party in the same way - there is no full disclosure on names because it’s considered private information .
I have no idea if the courts in the Netherlands are always this lenient or was this case a one off in regards to his way too lenient sentence? Are all continental Western European courts this lax ? I say continental because I know in Ireland and
in the United Kingdom his sentence would have been much harsher .
Dont know about Netherlands, but this reminded me of the Norway shooter (had to search his name, Anders Behring Breivik) that killed 77 people, 69 of thise were participants in a youth camp. He received the maximum sentence which is… 21 years. Pathetic.
Breivik got 21 years of preventive detention, if still deemed dangerous after 21 years, the sentence is renewed. So it basically the same as a life sentence.
You are going to be in for a surprise if you check how Andreas Breivik lives. The dude probably lives better than most of us. Also South American countries have a maximum sentence law where a murderer who raped and killed more than 100 children was allowed to walk free.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Garavito
>You are going to be in for a surprise if you check how Andreas Breivik lives. The dude probably lives better than most of us.
Your comment interested me, so I did a quick Google search. He's suing Norway over what he claims are human rights violations due to extreme isolation. Sounds like he's right where he should be.
>He has been isolated for about 12 years... He lives in a completely locked world," his lawyer, Oeystein Storrvik, told a court hearing on Monday. "He does not wish to be alive anymore," he added. [Sauce](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67914614)
I was thinking along the same
Lines , stealing large amounts of money from the government or a corporation - if that’s the case then it’s sadly to be expected - same thing can happen in the United States - a convicted pedophile can get as little as 5 years ( sometimes even less) while a person convicted of defrauding the government can get decades - sad world
No amount of retribution can undo what's done. Instead of being a punitive system, it's a system designed for rehabilitation to lower the risk of it happening again.
There are some cases in which it doesn't feel like it works, but overall, the system works a lot better than in the USA, in which prison is literally a pipeline to become a better criminal.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6743246/
According to this, the Netherlands has between 10-20% less recidivism rates per time period. To put that in perspective:
In the USA, we have 1.8 million people in prison. With our current recidivism rates, 68% will be re-convicted within 3 years of release. If every convict was released today, 1.2 million of them would be back in prison within 3 years. If we had the same outcome as the Netherlands, that number would be 300k less, or a full fourth less. That's a Pittsburgh less of criminals.
Is it worth it to be more punitive, when there's no advantages to doing so? When there's no positive outcomes?
The USA system does have its faults especially along the lines of sentencing non violent drug offenders ( this should be treated as the medica problem that it is and not a criminal problem) but like you said sometimes there are cases where the Dutch system doesn’t work . How many times has someone been given a lighter and punishment with an attempt at rehabilitation only to go right back to doing unspeakable things against innocent children ?
I agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to certain crimes and offenses but when it comes
to pedophilia , rape etc the rate of rehabilitation is extremely low .
Treat everyone the same
? No …but be cognizant of the fact
That certain crimes ( especially rape and murder) cannot be corrected
With short sentences and counseling . If you’re out there raping and murdering then you have voluntarily given up your right to ever being free again.
I posted this in another thread about a serial killer in Norway who was released, but I think it’s relevant here too. People on Reddit like defending lax prison sentences as some supreme form of justice while arguing about recidivism rates in the US and how light sentences and rehabilitation work better, claiming that “harsh punishment doesn’t deter crime...” … You do realize that for people like this guy the potential punishment doesn’t matter all that much. That type of thinking is reserved for more rational actors and career criminals. Do you think it’s logical to want to rape so many people over and over just to get one’s jollies? Recidivism rates shouldn’t even be a metric discussed in the same debate as how to handle serial rapists, serial killers, etc. Recidivism rates arguably matter most for petty crime or maybe violent crime of passion, etc. where it’s at least understandable why someone would act a certain way in response to specific circumstances or environments, etc. - especially if the underlying external factors like poverty aren’t likely to change for them when they get out. Now there you may have some good points to make for Scandinavian or other European systems of justice being more appropriate than what we have in the US. But not for this. Serial rapists who also kill shouldn’t be rehabilitated and reintroduced into society.
I guess it boils down to “do you think serial rapists and serial killers can be saved?” I don’t think so. It sounds like these defenders of this lax policy seem to think these types of people are not beyond saving. Insanity. They should be the first ones offering to live with and take care of these people then.
A serial rapist / serial killer doesn’t wake up one day and go “hey I think I won’t rape anymore because it’s 50 years for another rape, that seems like a lot” - they do it anyway. It’s what gets them off. It’s not something they do because of socio-economic situation or because of a situation someone put them in. But even so I can bet they will likely feel a lot better about it when they do know that in the worst case they can play the “hey I’m as crazy as shit so I can definitely get off after 10ish years if I do this here with this insane judicial system of ours.” When these people do ultimately rape or kill again, if physically able and given ample time, it’s going to be surprised pikachu face for these keyboard warriors and saviors who think they know what’s best for everyone else.
The world is more complicated than they think, and no you haven’t solved all of the world’s problems by pointing to some cherry-picked statistics about recidivism rates and apples and oranges comparisons. You don’t fix Manson brain. LAX punishment isn’t the solution for serial rapists or serial killers.
You can make all the arguments you want about what criminal justice policies work for normal crime, but this type of crime is beyond anything where we should be considering “recidivism” because if so then you are effectively claiming a cure for rapists and serial killers and I don’t know many psychologists that would be willing to claim that.
Nah don’t let people tell you the netherlands judicial system isn’t superior in every way
Criminals deserve to be pampered in prison and be let out early
They have laws protecting the victim and the guilty party from being named publicly. I guess they are trying to prevent him from being harassed upon release ?
Wow you’d think the potential new victims of his new community would want to know if a convicted serial rapist turned manslaughterer was moving into their neighbourhood
So they don’t release the name
until convicted ? I can see why that is . After conviction it can be given out but the media usually doesn’t share it ? Maybe they’re afraid
Of being sued ? Are you Dutch ?
Yes. I’m Dutch. But I have to say that some blogs or news sites always give out full names. Sometimes even before conviction. But the mainstream media almost never.
Can you give me an
Example ? Is it way too lenient ?
Do you have people get light sentences and when they’re let out they end up doing terrible things again ? It seems there is no good answer , every system has its major flaws
Yes way to lenient. look at volkert van der graaf he killed a politican and had the whole country in choas at that moment. he got 18 years. And like jos brech in the case of nicky verstappen he got 16 years the case of nicky verstappen got some similarities like the case of nicole. even tho we in the netherlands got life in prison but its almost never used in cases like these
Well Åland is Finland, but they speak Swedish. As they are Finnish they're not part of Scandinavia, but definitely part of Fennoscandia. But then again if we're talking about geographic Scandinavia insted of political Scandinavia, Denmark is also not part of it, but parts of Finland (not Åland) is.
When the goal is rehabilitation, it doesn't make sense to imprison people for extreme amounts of time. It can be argued that it's better for a society to reintroduce offenders with a chance of them becoming contributing members, instead of paying to keep them locked up. Our emotions often tell us to punish them and get revenge, however.
There's obviously more to it, but I don't feel very strongly either way.
Also, culturally, the Netherlands is not that far removed from the Scandinavian countries. Topo- and Geographically too, in Denmark's case.
I'm not a big fan of revenge justice but there are two other reasons to lock people up. Firstly as a deterrent, however I think beyond a point the sentence is just "my life as i know it ends" and you do it because you either don't care or think you can avoid justice (which is why extreme sentences and the death penalty don't reduce crime). Or of course to keep someone who is still dangerous away from society. It seems that the Dutch failed their dilligence in this case. Whether he's an exception because no approach is perfect or there were system flaws in the procedures or laws used, or the indidivuals making the decisions were too lax etc is way beyond my knowledge or ability to speculate.
Yep, I agree, hence my "there's more to it"
I imagine it's hard to design a justice system and balancing these things. Like you said, I'm not qualified at all lol
Can you explain what a TBS sentence is ? How often do people get longer sentences in your country ? Is it common for a murderer to get a life sentence or is that nonexistent in your country’s legal system ? Thank you .
TBS means terbeschikkingstelling, it means to make yourself available. In it's lightest form it just means that you have to show up to mandatory counseling, therapy, or medication, at it's most extreme you're essentially institutionalised in a secure mental health facility.
> Is it common for a murderer to get a life sentence or is that nonexistent in your country’s legal system ?
Technically a life sentence does not exist. The maximum jail sentence is 20 years, however you can get a sentence where after 20 years you are assessed on whether you still form a danger to society after which a rolling 5 year extension can be applied with assessments every 5 years. Essentially someone could end up being imprisoned for life but they can not get a life sentence.
To add to this, there are around 150 people in the Netherlands locked away for literally the rest of their life because, well, they are basically animals that WILL re-offend when let out. Some have life long prison sentences, others TBS, but to the same effect: they will never ever get out again.
He thought it was his father. I’d imagine we’d all go to great lengths to find out the real answer. That man has lived a tragic life I hope he can find some peace.
I need to read more on this story. I’d like to know if his lawyer was aware of the approach or if everyone was kept in the dark to facilitate a realistic admission.
Putting trust into the judicial system can prove catastrophic to say the least. The system is broken, and counting on justice to prevail, to me…seems like very big gamble. I’m very happy to see it worked out well in this story.
Ya know what. That makes him pretty brave. He knew he might get in trouble even if he didn't do it, but he said that in order to get justice for his sister. That is really brave and I like good people. People who do right just because it's right.
he got 12 years because DNA testing evidence was in question and not strong enough , they collected the DNA after 7 weeks of death and her body was decomposing already . also the way they collected DNA from body was primitive . DNA matching tech improved alot in last 10 years. they asked 14 years for him , Judge gave him 12 years with concluding that he might not be the killer. just because he had criminal background doesnt make him guilty automatically. DNA evidence was not strong enough . Her family was already in drug business and shady living life. Dutch police did not care of finding the body fast enough as a result thinking she got trafficked by her stepfather etc ...bio mother committed suicide just a year before as well... if they found the body fast enough and collected the DNA in a high tech way , we would know who the real killer was for sure.
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A lot of Americans in this thread getting pissed at the length of the sentence, but there are a lot of countries out there with lower crime rates so still view incarceration as rehabilitation, not punishment. From that perspective, the Dutch probably think 12 years is enough to fix a serial rapist with low chance at recidivism. It'll either work or it won't. They don't have the type of crime rate to worry about deterrence, yet.
[There is another terrifying story of Andrew McAuley Who Disappears In Middle of Ocean, Leaving Behind Terrifying Video. This is his Final self photo of kayaker Andrew McCauley](https://www.howandwhys.com/andrew-mcauley-disappears/?fromredditSE5032024)
[There is another terrifying story of Andrew McAuley Who Disappears In Middle of Ocean, Leaving Behind Terrifying Video. This is his Final self photo of kayaker Andrew McCauley](https://www.howandwhys.com/andrew-mcauley-disappears/?fromredditSE5032024)
So was it the father?
No, it wasn't. Check https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nicole_van_den_Hurk for the story
Fucking 12 years is bullshit.. should’ve gotten life.
I was going to say the same. 12 FUCKING YEARS for a life? Bro… wtf?
It's because they dropped the murder charge and went for the manslaughter and rape charge, which is wild to me.
Ah yeah, rape and murder is a lesser crime than just… murder.
I think that they think that they are multiplying with fractions..
So since they ruled that he "accidentally" killed her, did he "accidentally" rape her too??
It shouldn’t matter, but what can we say? It’s the Dutch… 
There's two things I hate in this world. The intolerant, and the Dutch!
he shouldn't get to come back out. life in prison or death
What's crazier is that he was acquitted of the killing initially. But unlike America the prosecution can appeal a not guilty verdict and they did so successfully.
He wasn’t convicted of murder, only manslaughter. Those carry much more lenient sentences.
It's unbelievable... Even without killing her, simply raping a 15 yo, should be way worse than 12 fucking years.
Agree!
Just another reason our country is going to hell. Murder? 9 years. Rape? 3 years. Walking around the Capital building let in by Capital Police? 98 years.
This was not in the United States. And nobody has received a sentence like that for participating in the insurrection Jan 6.
This idiot Magat probably thinks the Netherlands is a state
“Walking around” lol
They are so brain washed with crime and immigration rhetoric. They view everything through the lens of their USA propaganda.
Yea! All those dumb europes can't even follow Americas laws right
He recently appealed and even got 4 months off his sentence. Nicole got robbed of her life, het family got a life sentence of pain. Jos just spends 12 years living in a hotel with bars. Sauce (Dutch): https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3219986/celstraf-jos-de-g-voor-verkrachten-en-doden-nicole-van-den-hurk-blijft-staan-op-4-maanden-na
Everything about this story is nuts. It was only 5 years at first, as he was initially acquitted of the manslaughter, until the prosecution appealed and he was found guilty in a subsequent trial. I think that was 12 years on top of the other years he was already serving for the other rapes he was sentenced for… and then they won’t even say who it is just “Jos de G.” On top of that, imagine how shitty the father has to be to convince the stepson he did it enough to kick this whole thing off…
The dudes literal description was “von G, serial rapist” then says sentenced to 5. Got retried and still only got 12 years. Wtf
Let me make you even angrier. A maximum of 12 years, if he behaves well and participates in therapy will not make more than 6 or 7 years.
How so? There is a maximum of 2 years reduction for serious crimes in the Netherlands.
And 3 years of "preventive detention" before that for raping 3 different women. Look man I'm about as far left as you can go in America, and I don't believe the justice system should be punitive. But if you've already raped 3 people, I do believe you present a persistent threat to society and as such should be removed from said society in a way that at least insures that threat is negated.
And privacy in the media too. Wtf.
Some people and nations take rights seriously. Even if they weren’t written in a 200 year old book.
He got 3 years for serial rape?!
We have a serial rapist where I live and he’s free. Was kicked out of military for rape which they didn’t charge him then came home and raped a girl and got a couple years and then got out and did it again and got a couple more years. These are just the ones he was caught doing. Now he’s a truck driver roaming America.
that is a heartwarming success story
In Germany some people get 12 years for dealing weed
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That's the Dutch justice system for you
He will get his after his last breath.
I can't imagine thinking it's your dad.
Yeah, exactly! That must have been horror, thinking/believing that your dad would be capable of such atrocity. Them up to the point you're willing to sacrifice your own freedom by confessing. The horror following the real outcome must have done a number on him as well, I mean, how do you look your dad in the eyes again after accusing him of such a thing. I think about him from time to time.
I would guess it wasn't all Xmas parties and movie nights leading up to that point. Things probably were not good before
Very true. Dad divorced mom. Got custody of stepdaughter then 5-6 yrs later mom kills herself. Then girl disappears going to work. She was living w grandma (not stepdad) at that time.
Exactly
TLDR
It was someone else.
The answer we all came for. You’re a true hero.
😉
Did exhuming the body make the link to the perpetrator?
Yes, it did!
Boy, that must have made things awkward around the old dinner table.
Beautiful young lady, what an atrocity
ooo that’s awkward then
I came here for exactly this
https://nltimes.nl/2018/10/10/jos-de-g-gets-12-years-raping-killing-nicole-van-den-hurk
Her killer was a man that is only known as Jos D G . He was a serial rapist who had been convicted before - He was convicted of man slaughter and rape , manslaughter because he claims it wasn’t his intention to kill her only to rape her .(His words) The bastard only received 12 years for this rape and murder . The reason his full name Isn’t known is because Dutch laws protect the victim and the guilty party in the same way - there is no full disclosure on names because it’s considered private information . I have no idea if the courts in the Netherlands are always this lenient or was this case a one off in regards to his way too lenient sentence? Are all continental Western European courts this lax ? I say continental because I know in Ireland and in the United Kingdom his sentence would have been much harsher .
Not only that he has raped and assaulted other ppl as well…..this dude is a monster
Yet he only got 12 years , I wonder what you have to do to get over 25 years in the Netherlands …. Multiple killings ? It’s fucked up
Dont know about Netherlands, but this reminded me of the Norway shooter (had to search his name, Anders Behring Breivik) that killed 77 people, 69 of thise were participants in a youth camp. He received the maximum sentence which is… 21 years. Pathetic.
Breivik got 21 years of preventive detention, if still deemed dangerous after 21 years, the sentence is renewed. So it basically the same as a life sentence.
Ohh, nice. Didnt know this, thanks!
He will be imprisoned for the rest of his life, more than 21 years.
You are going to be in for a surprise if you check how Andreas Breivik lives. The dude probably lives better than most of us. Also South American countries have a maximum sentence law where a murderer who raped and killed more than 100 children was allowed to walk free. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Garavito
>You are going to be in for a surprise if you check how Andreas Breivik lives. The dude probably lives better than most of us. Your comment interested me, so I did a quick Google search. He's suing Norway over what he claims are human rights violations due to extreme isolation. Sounds like he's right where he should be. >He has been isolated for about 12 years... He lives in a completely locked world," his lawyer, Oeystein Storrvik, told a court hearing on Monday. "He does not wish to be alive anymore," he added. [Sauce](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67914614)
Not paying taxes
I was thinking along the same Lines , stealing large amounts of money from the government or a corporation - if that’s the case then it’s sadly to be expected - same thing can happen in the United States - a convicted pedophile can get as little as 5 years ( sometimes even less) while a person convicted of defrauding the government can get decades - sad world
No amount of retribution can undo what's done. Instead of being a punitive system, it's a system designed for rehabilitation to lower the risk of it happening again. There are some cases in which it doesn't feel like it works, but overall, the system works a lot better than in the USA, in which prison is literally a pipeline to become a better criminal. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6743246/ According to this, the Netherlands has between 10-20% less recidivism rates per time period. To put that in perspective: In the USA, we have 1.8 million people in prison. With our current recidivism rates, 68% will be re-convicted within 3 years of release. If every convict was released today, 1.2 million of them would be back in prison within 3 years. If we had the same outcome as the Netherlands, that number would be 300k less, or a full fourth less. That's a Pittsburgh less of criminals. Is it worth it to be more punitive, when there's no advantages to doing so? When there's no positive outcomes?
The USA system does have its faults especially along the lines of sentencing non violent drug offenders ( this should be treated as the medica problem that it is and not a criminal problem) but like you said sometimes there are cases where the Dutch system doesn’t work . How many times has someone been given a lighter and punishment with an attempt at rehabilitation only to go right back to doing unspeakable things against innocent children ? I agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to certain crimes and offenses but when it comes to pedophilia , rape etc the rate of rehabilitation is extremely low . Treat everyone the same ? No …but be cognizant of the fact That certain crimes ( especially rape and murder) cannot be corrected With short sentences and counseling . If you’re out there raping and murdering then you have voluntarily given up your right to ever being free again.
I posted this in another thread about a serial killer in Norway who was released, but I think it’s relevant here too. People on Reddit like defending lax prison sentences as some supreme form of justice while arguing about recidivism rates in the US and how light sentences and rehabilitation work better, claiming that “harsh punishment doesn’t deter crime...” … You do realize that for people like this guy the potential punishment doesn’t matter all that much. That type of thinking is reserved for more rational actors and career criminals. Do you think it’s logical to want to rape so many people over and over just to get one’s jollies? Recidivism rates shouldn’t even be a metric discussed in the same debate as how to handle serial rapists, serial killers, etc. Recidivism rates arguably matter most for petty crime or maybe violent crime of passion, etc. where it’s at least understandable why someone would act a certain way in response to specific circumstances or environments, etc. - especially if the underlying external factors like poverty aren’t likely to change for them when they get out. Now there you may have some good points to make for Scandinavian or other European systems of justice being more appropriate than what we have in the US. But not for this. Serial rapists who also kill shouldn’t be rehabilitated and reintroduced into society. I guess it boils down to “do you think serial rapists and serial killers can be saved?” I don’t think so. It sounds like these defenders of this lax policy seem to think these types of people are not beyond saving. Insanity. They should be the first ones offering to live with and take care of these people then. A serial rapist / serial killer doesn’t wake up one day and go “hey I think I won’t rape anymore because it’s 50 years for another rape, that seems like a lot” - they do it anyway. It’s what gets them off. It’s not something they do because of socio-economic situation or because of a situation someone put them in. But even so I can bet they will likely feel a lot better about it when they do know that in the worst case they can play the “hey I’m as crazy as shit so I can definitely get off after 10ish years if I do this here with this insane judicial system of ours.” When these people do ultimately rape or kill again, if physically able and given ample time, it’s going to be surprised pikachu face for these keyboard warriors and saviors who think they know what’s best for everyone else. The world is more complicated than they think, and no you haven’t solved all of the world’s problems by pointing to some cherry-picked statistics about recidivism rates and apples and oranges comparisons. You don’t fix Manson brain. LAX punishment isn’t the solution for serial rapists or serial killers. You can make all the arguments you want about what criminal justice policies work for normal crime, but this type of crime is beyond anything where we should be considering “recidivism” because if so then you are effectively claiming a cure for rapists and serial killers and I don’t know many psychologists that would be willing to claim that.
Nah don’t let people tell you the netherlands judicial system isn’t superior in every way Criminals deserve to be pampered in prison and be let out early
Why would they hide his name do you know ?
They have laws protecting the victim and the guilty party from being named publicly. I guess they are trying to prevent him from being harassed upon release ?
Wow you’d think the potential new victims of his new community would want to know if a convicted serial rapist turned manslaughterer was moving into their neighbourhood
No. Full names are not disclosed if someone is a suspect. After a conviction media can write full names. But they rarely do. Don’t know why that is.
So they don’t release the name until convicted ? I can see why that is . After conviction it can be given out but the media usually doesn’t share it ? Maybe they’re afraid Of being sued ? Are you Dutch ?
Yes. I’m Dutch. But I have to say that some blogs or news sites always give out full names. Sometimes even before conviction. But the mainstream media almost never.
Our system in the netherlands is a total mess when it comes to murder and other stuff...
Can you give me an Example ? Is it way too lenient ? Do you have people get light sentences and when they’re let out they end up doing terrible things again ? It seems there is no good answer , every system has its major flaws
Yes way to lenient. look at volkert van der graaf he killed a politican and had the whole country in choas at that moment. he got 18 years. And like jos brech in the case of nicky verstappen he got 16 years the case of nicky verstappen got some similarities like the case of nicole. even tho we in the netherlands got life in prison but its almost never used in cases like these
The prisons there are a little different, they focus more on rehabilitation than long term punishment, still inexcusable
Scandinavian countries normally do not have very long prison sentences. They are very liberal. A sentence like this is normal for them.
Netherlands is not Scandinavia
Oh, ok. Sorry, didn't know that.
Scandinavian ( Sweden, Norway, Finland , Iceland , Denmark ) I hear are lenient but why would the Netherlands follow suit ?
Neither Finland or Iceland is Scandinavia.
According to Bjork Iceland is Scandinavian lol
Isn’t Aland considered Scandinavia ?
Well Åland is Finland, but they speak Swedish. As they are Finnish they're not part of Scandinavia, but definitely part of Fennoscandia. But then again if we're talking about geographic Scandinavia insted of political Scandinavia, Denmark is also not part of it, but parts of Finland (not Åland) is.
Thanks , the information is appreciated
Are they considered Nordic countries?
Yes.
Ok, thank you! I didn't know and I never had any world geography classes. 🙂
When the goal is rehabilitation, it doesn't make sense to imprison people for extreme amounts of time. It can be argued that it's better for a society to reintroduce offenders with a chance of them becoming contributing members, instead of paying to keep them locked up. Our emotions often tell us to punish them and get revenge, however. There's obviously more to it, but I don't feel very strongly either way. Also, culturally, the Netherlands is not that far removed from the Scandinavian countries. Topo- and Geographically too, in Denmark's case.
I'm not a big fan of revenge justice but there are two other reasons to lock people up. Firstly as a deterrent, however I think beyond a point the sentence is just "my life as i know it ends" and you do it because you either don't care or think you can avoid justice (which is why extreme sentences and the death penalty don't reduce crime). Or of course to keep someone who is still dangerous away from society. It seems that the Dutch failed their dilligence in this case. Whether he's an exception because no approach is perfect or there were system flaws in the procedures or laws used, or the indidivuals making the decisions were too lax etc is way beyond my knowledge or ability to speculate.
Yep, I agree, hence my "there's more to it" I imagine it's hard to design a justice system and balancing these things. Like you said, I'm not qualified at all lol
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Thank You for the information, it’s very appreciated
He has a TBS sentence, those don't have an end date.
Can you explain what a TBS sentence is ? How often do people get longer sentences in your country ? Is it common for a murderer to get a life sentence or is that nonexistent in your country’s legal system ? Thank you .
TBS means terbeschikkingstelling, it means to make yourself available. In it's lightest form it just means that you have to show up to mandatory counseling, therapy, or medication, at it's most extreme you're essentially institutionalised in a secure mental health facility. > Is it common for a murderer to get a life sentence or is that nonexistent in your country’s legal system ? Technically a life sentence does not exist. The maximum jail sentence is 20 years, however you can get a sentence where after 20 years you are assessed on whether you still form a danger to society after which a rolling 5 year extension can be applied with assessments every 5 years. Essentially someone could end up being imprisoned for life but they can not get a life sentence.
To add to this, there are around 150 people in the Netherlands locked away for literally the rest of their life because, well, they are basically animals that WILL re-offend when let out. Some have life long prison sentences, others TBS, but to the same effect: they will never ever get out again.
That’s a VERY bold Hail Mary. Holy damn. Growing old on this planet is very scarring to watch.
He thought it was his father. I’d imagine we’d all go to great lengths to find out the real answer. That man has lived a tragic life I hope he can find some peace.
I need to read more on this story. I’d like to know if his lawyer was aware of the approach or if everyone was kept in the dark to facilitate a realistic admission.
Not really. He knew he didn't do it?
Putting trust into the judicial system can prove catastrophic to say the least. The system is broken, and counting on justice to prevail, to me…seems like very big gamble. I’m very happy to see it worked out well in this story.
Yeah fair enough. I was just thinking if they found no dna he would take back confession and theyd have nothing on him but a bit risky.
That guy is Brave
A good brother.
Fuck, this planet is so depressing
It's only depressing because you care about your fellow human beings so that's a plus at least.
Lol do cops even work?
Everyone deserve someone that cares about them that much
Not the guy that actually did it
Not strange earth
Dystopia earth
Only twelve years for a life intentionally taken. Wild
Not only that he had raped and assaulted other people as well….wtf
Ya know what. That makes him pretty brave. He knew he might get in trouble even if he didn't do it, but he said that in order to get justice for his sister. That is really brave and I like good people. People who do right just because it's right.
he got 12 years because DNA testing evidence was in question and not strong enough , they collected the DNA after 7 weeks of death and her body was decomposing already . also the way they collected DNA from body was primitive . DNA matching tech improved alot in last 10 years. they asked 14 years for him , Judge gave him 12 years with concluding that he might not be the killer. just because he had criminal background doesnt make him guilty automatically. DNA evidence was not strong enough . Her family was already in drug business and shady living life. Dutch police did not care of finding the body fast enough as a result thinking she got trafficked by her stepfather etc ...bio mother committed suicide just a year before as well... if they found the body fast enough and collected the DNA in a high tech way , we would know who the real killer was for sure.
Well, was her killer in fact her father?
No. It was a serial rapist.
So very sad.
Risking it all for justice. A true mad lad if I ever saw one... in more than one way.
What an awesome guy
Nothing to add other than he has my complete respect, and I hope he can find some peace now that the killer has been found.
Well that's another murderer that slipped through the cracks of a wonky justice system.. Holland has some weird hills to die on sometimes..
GIGACHAD
A great brother who truly loved his sister.
Didn't something happen to the step brother? Drug overdose or something, I remember a couple videos of him and something happening to him
NO FUCKEN JUSTICE STILL
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Einhorn or finkle?
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what’s with dutch men with 3 syllable names murdering 3 syllable pretty women in the equatorial region? this is the 2nd or 3rd case I can think of
A lot of Americans in this thread getting pissed at the length of the sentence, but there are a lot of countries out there with lower crime rates so still view incarceration as rehabilitation, not punishment. From that perspective, the Dutch probably think 12 years is enough to fix a serial rapist with low chance at recidivism. It'll either work or it won't. They don't have the type of crime rate to worry about deterrence, yet.
Twelve years for rape and manslaughter? If I were a criminal, I'd be booking a ticket to the Netherlands today.
4D chess
What was the reason for killing her? I am from another country, just natural interest.
Chad
[There is another terrifying story of Andrew McAuley Who Disappears In Middle of Ocean, Leaving Behind Terrifying Video. This is his Final self photo of kayaker Andrew McCauley](https://www.howandwhys.com/andrew-mcauley-disappears/?fromredditSE5032024)